so is it true? do you see better performance?
there is improvement of 10-20% on system/gaming performance
I'm not really sure about that :\
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Well in the common use looks a bit better than 7
(I've tried on my not so good laptop)
In game it depends, it could be better\no difference\even worse
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there are specific hard- and software combinations where that can be true. an example: project cars with rain or fog on a AMD graphics card (a website claimed 19% more fps then). yes, that specific. ^^
also many posted their Ark (that survival game) runs significantly better on Win10.
in most cases you won't get a noticable performance boost.
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@KillingArts We spoke beforehand (and i'm sorry i did not answer properly last time) and this way to describe things fits my idea pretty much too :)
@MRLW ... they did 2 things basically - change their driver model to accomodate possibly better performance (wddm2) and introduced the last incarnation of directx (dx12) into. First one brings improvements in some (rarer) cases. Ark for instance seems badly optimized right now. Its borderline to unplayable as reports are in. Some driver improments might smoothen out the badness but the only curation is that the dev's finish their game.
As for DX12 you need to know that its about a lowlvl access to gpu hardware. Software can access it more bare to the metal "console like" and can push more stuff around. Highlevel access (as is the norm right now - aside of Mantle) will still be the easier and most probable way to access things at least at first shot. Its about cost to develop things. LowLevel support is expensive so expect only a few game vendors to utilize a full speedup but some NEW games will have such. Its expected that the big engine vendors will support low level dx as well as they will support Vulkan (which supercedes Mantle) sooner or later. Vulkan does not need WDDM2 and will be available starting from Win7 or possibly even Vista and can expect to yield same boosts as lowlvl dx12.
Keep in mind the beefier the CPU you already gotten the less of a speedup you can expect. Its not about making graphics faster but to reduce load on the cpu side. Which means unused GPU potential might be released. But If a game is already GPU-limited there is little to be improved. In general read reviews about Mantle's improvement over DX11. Thats what to be expected.
Just to balance things out - thats the sweet MS gave everyone as a incentitive to switch. But their sour bonbon is that they took full control now about "your" system. Consider it their deal with you just being a guest at your computer.
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Consider it their deal with you just being a guest at your computer.
dont really like that, i prefer them to be guest at my computer.
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Wait for a few months. Only one game is coming out that will use the most basic DX12 features for some performance improvement.
Although Win10 uses resources much more efficiently than Win7 (and a little better than Win8.x), so far there have been some teething problems with drivers. There is a chance that some games run somewhat better, but that will only be a driver thing. DX12 will be a massive boost, but only for games that support it. And that is still several months away.
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Yes, it improves every PC that uses an AMD HD 7000 or newer or an nVidia GTX 400 or newer graphics chip.
But it also needs games that support DirectX 12 features. Just because DX12 is there, games won't be able to magically use it. It is a common misconception because many online journalists have zero knowledge in basic IT skills apart from how to use a word processor, but DX12 by itself is not a wizard tool, it won't help current game performance the least bit. (Heck, since they dropped a few things from pre-DX6, Win10 is actually a hindrance if you want to run some older games because they cannot even start due to missing libraries.)
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the article itself states the same as you, but...it adds improvement efficiency for the drivers themselves - which means the bottle neck of amd/nvidia (amd especially) cards is bigger (which improves performances at all rigs)
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Driver efficiency is independent of DX, they are different API layers. The OS is lighter and the drivers are now better for it slightly, that's all about it. As I said, maybe some games gain real boost from it, but I wouldn't hold my breath for even 10%, let alone 20.
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look at the project cars benchmark. 19%, if you have the right graphics card and drive with rain. very specific conditions, but it's possible to get a significant boost.
http://www.computerbase.de/2015-07/windows-10-spieler-test-amd-nvidia-geschwindigkeit/2/ (german site, but the graphs should speak for themselves)
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Yeah, AMD: We knew they will profit a lot from Win10, and even more from DX12 games. Of course if the Mantle API would have spread it'd be less of an improvement, but maybe in a year or so everybody will see what their raw power can really be capable of.
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yeah, i am excited about what might come in the next months and years. maybe AMD will even be able to compete more than it is now. and i say that as a nvidia fanboy. ;)
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My last nVidia card was a GeForce Ti 420, although finally the GTX 970 is one I can recommend to people without a heavy heart.
Still, their policy of crippling the competition by bribing game devs to use their incredibly ineffective and broken closed-software proprietary methods put them on Apple's levels of unethical practise. Even Intel is better, they at least maintain their market lead by actual innovation instead of forcing broken stuff on others with $$$ and hamper progress.
And nVidia used to be such a great company, practically the opposite of what are they doing now. Their initial cards pushed the market to limits people never thought it'd be possible. They were pioneers, not a lumbering giant sitting on its riches.
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- their policy of crippling the competition by bribing game devs to use their incredibly ineffective and broken closed-software proprietary methods put them on Apple's levels of unethical practise.*
i better don't tell you that i also have an iphone. xD
while i agree with most of what you said, in the end all i want is the best possible product. and my experiences with radeon cards were quite bad back in the day. driver issues, games not working properly. this is all long ago (one card i remember was the radeon 9600), but it's still in my head. so i bought nvidia from there on, and i am still satisfied with their products. i have the 970 right now, and last year i had the 770, which was also quite a good card. but who knows, maybe my next one (or the one after that) will be a AMD card. ;)
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Unless AMD really jumps ahead a lot in terms of engine/driver/DX support (practically all software layers), I doubt. I love my HD 6850, and I would love an R9 295, but their selection of cards with a good ratio in price, performance, and power consumption currently is very limited.
Still, in the low-budget segment they are hard to beat. Despite the increased performance of the Intel HD 6000 chips, the current best low-cost gaming solution is an AMD APU. I have seen a build with an A6 under 400 USD that ran Borderlands 2 in 768p High (no PhysX) and streamed it in 720p. That's more than an 8th gen console (costing more) can do.
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learned a lot from the comments of the too of you , thanks ^_^
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there exist benchmarks of DX11 games that run significantly faster on Win10 in certain configurations. this has nothing to do with DX12. it seems to be due to WDDM2.0.
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You know, I totally forget sometimes that Win10 has that too. I mean I recall that it is better regarding drivers, but the upgrade in the driver model is just slipping my mind. And yes, that helps a lot.
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I'm still waiting for the mail to clear my upgrade. As I have an atypical system, it might take a while for me.
Unless you have specific programs that might not work with Win10, just do it.
Make a backup copy of C (Macrium Reflect is easy and free) and upgrade.
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thats actually a good advise for testing, tho im more aiming for the long run :-)
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there is no mail, if you whant to upgrade you can do it manually from here https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10
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Good! I'll save this for later. There's a few things that I need to do before I can safely move on.
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From what i heard dx12 will be not only for win10. So i would say stick to what you have for now.
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better performance, maybe i don't think so, but it's not worst and in a few month you'll get dx12 games... so yeah if you like linux and care about the data collecting (personally i don't, i'm sure ms don't really care about what pron i watch) , switch to a linux/w10 dual boot
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what you watch is the list of your concerns, think of
- bank info
- mail accounts
- sensitive forums (like medical/mental etc)
- business data
they didn't exactly say what they are collecting...
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i have no money (even my w10 is cracked)
my mail account is hotmail so they already have everything
i'm a psycho and i'm sure they don't care
i'm a simple user, not a company
if you really care about that don't use google also, they are collecting all the data you give them too...
maybe we should be paranoid, it's a good thing but, if you are that much paranoid go live in the forest without internet :p
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:-D good one, tho still there is a differences between using google and listening to ALL DATA...but if its good for you then im fine with it ;-)
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your internet provider also get all your data your transmiting on internet, will you stop using internet also?
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no he dosent, he get the encrypted output and the destination, as the sites themselves are encrypted and secured.
here microsoft above that also collect personal local info...
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Not caring about privacy because you have nothing to hide is like not caring about freedom of speech because you have nothing to say.
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Exept here, you have the right not using windows 10... and assuming that microsoft will use these data to spy on my is only presomption, i don't think that the pupose of it, I think they collect data only to enhance users experience and I don't disagree with that...
For exemple in my country the public transportation service can know everywhere i go and when, i don't really care, i don't want to go everywhere by foot, and they arn't using these data to spy on my they don't care it's only for use of statistics and enhance the public transportation system...
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Supporting something that is wrong is contributing with it (directly or indirectly). I prefer to sacrifice a 10% of better performance for something no intrusive that allow such horrible thing. They always take away our rights in the same way, little by little, so we'll say: "oh boy, it's just X".
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maybe it's wrong for you, for me it's not...
I have an hotmail account for more than 10 years so I think it's already too late for me to say to microsoft I don't want you to collect any data from me, i already have all my emails stocked on their servers.... all they can learn more about me is my usage of windows and if it help to improve windows, let it be...
Google does that too, will you really stop using google when surfing? that non sense.
If you don't want to use these sevices because of that good for you, you are free to find a better alternatives, if i don't care about that don't blame me...
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I haven't blamed you, I just made a statement, as you made yours.
If you want to protect yourself somehow and still use it, here you are:
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I know how to use my computer as i want, i'm a an it technician, but thx... it can help others
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My browser does that already, so tbh I for one, do not care about that.
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I hate to tell it to you, but these are the things people usually tell MS or Google (or in worse cases, Apple) in their own, since bank card info and mail accounts are needed to use many of their services, and MS Exchange is one of the most popular (and, frankly, in my experience, one of the best) business platforms.
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:/ well most of the people i know are more careful with that (as can) but again we are talking on local info gathering not intentional online shopping.
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You won't notice a performance boost as long as there is no dx12 game.
We will see how good dx12 really is when the first dx12 games come out.
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even without dx12games there is a performance boost as the system is lighter as i heard, there is test that proove that but personaly i can't see if my games gain 10fps
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I'll be sticking with 7 until I'm forced to get a new OS. Windows 7 has worked great for me. Very solid product.
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for me too, tho i moved to win 8.1, win 7 is a solid system...
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I'm not fully competent as my Win 7 starters to lag quite harshly few months ago. I was going to format and reinstall it but I lost my MSDNAA (Dreamspark now) account so decided to wait for the moment I'll buy new PC. I hoped it will come soon... obviously it didn't and Witcher 3 is still waiting but Microsoft announced free update to Win 10. After few problems (because if student license probably) I found a way to legally do this and what is my opinion?
I liked Win 7 very much but Win 10 at least as good. Also even new version was installed over all the crap of old one that was slowing down my PC overall performance went totally up! Also in games but no real tests done here, it might be just placebo effect. Yet for sure I can minimize such a CS:GO instantly while last time I was playing on old system it could even last half a minute until everything loads... and then still it sometimes was crashing the game.
To sum up - I believe it at least is using RAM much better :).
About privacy - for sure there will be a way to block all the data MS is collecting. Not now as far I believe. But you can turn off quite a lot of things in options of the system.
Still, MS is just now telling us about it, it doesn't mean that they wasn't doing it with older versions ;). Still - do you have smartphone with Android, IOS or... Windows? Your mobile is already collecting much more than PC ever will.
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i, have iPhone 4s but i dont use it beside navigating, SMS and calls, so no data collecting from it :-)
the ram part is tempting...as i only have 4GB of it...
you do know you can just copy your win 7 serial, and download the instillation disk from microsoft (thats what i did for my sis Vista At the time)
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Sorry I kept you waiting! I'm quite busy at the moment.
Uno - so with your iPhone you still send much much data. It's all used afterwards. Such a times. Or we choose Nokia 3310 and freedom or new technologies and fact our avatars are stored everywhere. I don't like it too but smartphones are already making much more problematic surveillance in my humble opinion.
Secundo - it's really working smooth on my dirty updated Windows. Fresh system should be even better!
Tertio - my fail :(. However I am not sure if my MSDNAA version would be accepted this way.
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thanks :-)
Tertio - my fail :(. However I am not sure if my MSDNAA version would be accepted this way.
sorry about that...
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also wanted to ask, how good was the integration between the old win and the new after the upgrade?
as i had some bad experience with upgrading win in the past (xp-win 7 , win 7-8) always got better results from clean install.
so how smooth the upgrade went?
- on already installed programs/games
- stored local data
- stored data on browsers and such
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I was surprised but it went more then well. Everything is working just fine! I had to do no reinstalls and so on. Besides one thing - drivers for my printer :p.
PS. I just bought notebook with Win 8.1... I used this system already but not as deep as I was able now... It's really a disaster. Win 7 and 10 are in the same league. Hope I'll get in front of the queue before I'll go aboard. If it wont update automatically I'll use your hint from upper post.
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i kindev liked win 8.1 actually (after tweaking it a bit off curse)
and thats good to know about the upgrade ^_^
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Hey I would recommend you to try out Windows 10 by upgrading it with the Windows 10 Media Creation Tool (https://www.microsoft.com/de-de/software-download/windows10) You have 30 Days to rollback to your old OS so its good to try out. And btw for me Win 10 runs more solid and smooth then Win 7
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In regards to #2, this should help: Let's Talk About Windows 10, Imgur
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when installing, whenever there is something to choose say no.
really, that turned almost everything off for me
and since my rig can run everything i want i don't know how much faster it is. but it sure feels faster :)
Edit: i had win 8.1. thought i should point it out since a lot here has win 7.
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Honestly, it should not stop you from upgrading. Just so you know, recent updates to Windows 7, 8 & 8.1 allow them to do the exact same thing.
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3DMark API Overhead feature test:
pix-sauce
the difference will be significant in games as well - depending on the cpu/gpu, game, settings, general optimization:
games could run with up to twice (or more) as much FPS as with DX11
^ that being said no mention-worthy games with DX12 are available yet + only "CPU straining games" would profit greatly
^ as for upgrading ... no need to rush, the free upgrade is still roughly 11 months or so available
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good point, the rush is for improve performances not for the os itself :-P
thanks ^_^
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Existing games can expect a small boost in performance, but that's no more than 5% in most cases (so a few more extra FPS at best). That's thanks to general optimizations in the APIs & more efficient multi-threading.
I think the big exception is if you have an AMD card that supports Mantle. Can't confirm for myself as I don't have one of those cards (yet).
But with DirectX 12 pushing things "closer to the hardware" and AMD shifting their Mantle pitch from "every dev can use this" to "we'll work with selected partners, for general purposes use existing APIs" it looks like the Mantle tech will get rolled into DirectX 12 by default.
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it looks like the Mantle tech will get rolled into DirectX 12 by default
i thought they are going twords the development of "vulkan" no?
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Had to check my references there.
But "Vulkan" is supposed to be the replacement to OpenGL, so the main competitor to DirectX 12.
Since AMD is on the hardware side of things, they would want to support both APIs. They provided the Mantle specs to the group that's building Vulkan, but theyr'e not developing it themselves.
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So far I have yet to notice an improvement in existing games on Windows 10. If anything I lost some FPS on Witcher 3, although it is barely worth mentioning.
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Don´t have time to read the article right now, but AFAIK the performance-boost only aplies to games that are produced or get patched for DX12 (not sure if there are any right now).. but then the performance-boost should apply to old GPUs from the last ~5 years.
I´m using Win10 for a Month now and so far its allright.. compared to Windows 7, the improvements overweight the downsides and compared to Windows 8 its an allout improvement.. there are still some problems, bugs and design-errors that surely get fixed over the next few months.. so overall my advice is to wait a little longer and then update to Windows 10.
If you have particular games you´re hoping to play with better performance, just keep a lookout for a DX12 patch, but right now you wont really get any real performance-boost that I´d know of.
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Here is what to know https://www.microsoft.com/lv-lv/software-download/windows10 its a link with the tool
I havent seen performance boost but its lighter and it doesn't cost as much memory so maybe for that people get the performance boost
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I can confirm the 10-20% improved performance for apps and games running under windows 10. I made a few tests with the OSD from msi afterburner during my time with windows 7, 8.1 and now 10. The interval between 10-20% improved performance is marked by the directx version used, nvidia/ati game optimization and of course, the type of game. For example, for The Witcher 3, in win 7 i had around 40-45 fps. In the same testing areas, in win 10, i have 50-55 fps with the same settings as used under win 7. As for Dragon Age Inquisition, letting aside the fact that the cut scenes are capped at 30fps, the rest of the game ran flawlessly without any hiccups under win 10. FPS was capped at 60 without any visible variation, maybe a minus of 2-3 fps, but that's normal. Under win 7 i had a lot of fps drops, even at around 20-25 fps and a few hiccups. In conclusion, windows 10 works better than it's predecessors, but there is a little bit of work to be done for backwards compatibility.
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GIGABYTE Radeon HD7850 OC WindForce 2X 2GB DDR5 256-bit with a liiiiittle bit of overclocking done to it, the CPU and the RAM
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GPU is not really that good for witcher 3 that's why i had to overclock them all
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of course. high above average for altmost any recently released title. but still can't run them at ultra settings :)
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good to know, i should check out overclock then when i have the time...
by the way where do i start learning how to overclock? :-)
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ufff...hard to say. a long time has passed since i started overclocking, but google is your best friend. just type your component model and see what others have to say about overclocking it. overall, the msi afterburner is a good tool for overclocking.
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Windows 10 introduces WDDM 2.0 driver platform. This platform is lower leve, with less driver overhead, which means it's less taxing on the CPU. So even if you run DX 9/10/11 games now, you'll see a performance increase, IF the game is CPU limited.
For GPU performance increase, you have to wait for actual DX12 games. So far only AMD seem to get a huge performance increase, but nothing is conclusive yet.
I love the GUI of Windows 10, but it's not perfect. However Windows 7 is so obsolete, there is no reason to use it anymore; even Windows 8.1 has been better than 7 for years now.
As for the spying, it's not like Windows 10 is worse than anything Google anyways. Do you use google.com, chrome browser, gmail, Android? Congratulations, you are already getting more datamined than Windows 10 ever will. Only upside is that you can disable most of it in Windows 10, in the installation process at that (or later in settings).
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Linux for everyday and gaming\ win10 for dx11\dx12 games. (i don't really boot into win10, because what i play can be run on linux (native) or via Wine) Also linux has overall better performance ;)
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Also linux has overall better performance ;)
Well… not really. For gaming, Linux is still light years behind. Even for Valve games which supposed to be one of the greatest Linux compatibility.
For everything else, it is back and forth. Windows can be better for some thing, several Linux distros for others, and even OS X can take the top spot in certain tasks.
Linux is stable and secure at least, so if nothing else, it should remain the top pick for servers and coding work.
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There aren't really many choices. Steam OS or Ubuntu.
Other distros can be used for games, naturally, as long as there are drivers for them, but Steam OS is aimed at gamers, and Ubuntu is the closest thing Linux has as an everyday use OS. (Even though a number of IT companies and some governments use it too for workstations.)
Keep in mind that even though Steam OS is built solely for gaming, it is still in the phase that even at best it can match Windows performance in games, and only on nVidia cards.
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No. I use AMD products for… well, for quite a while. The AMD drivers on Linux, any Linux, are horrible.
If they work at all. Once I spent an entire week trying to make AMD drivers work, and they always, always crashed the system. And believe me, it takes effort to crash a Linux system that badly.
Since then they at least work, but the performance is horrible, 50% or so compared to Windows at best.
As much as I dislike nVidia and their business practise, the drivers written for their cards function significantly better on Linux. And they offer customised drivers for several Linux-like systems for better compatibility/performance. Here's a somewhat decent article on the matter: http://www.pcworld.com/article/2911459/why-nvidia-graphics-cards-are-the-worst-for-open-source-but-the-best-for-linux-gaming.html
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:/ i will read it when i will get back home hopefully...
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As for newbie friendly distributions there are still SuSE Linux and Mandriva on my list. (L)Ubuntu has a very well working 3rd-party hardware installer (e.g. nvidia / ati driver). I can just suppose there is similiar on the other distris i gave but i haven't been working on them lately. Myself is running Debian / Mint and using Win7 for gaming. Can tell that installing the nvidia driver on Debian is not that hard. There are good enough guides to accomodate if you don't know how.
Running games on Linux is never without Trouble. Running games through steam can ease things as it should work very well. Running steam unsupported games through wine however can be as easy as a cakewalk or as teeth crushing as gnarling on a rock. As a start you'd best install "playonlinux" on and read some guides to properly setup your gaming environment. A wise idea is to get a rough check on https://appdb.winehq.org/
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Upgrade to win 10,
Win 10 is very similar to Win 8.1, still upgrade now for the sake of familiarity until DX12 fully used.
If you use Win 7, it a must to upgrade to Win 10.
For graphical upgrade of DX12, it isn't really... yet
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running on win 10 here, here is the thing:
if u want to disable automatic updates, home edition is a bit of a pain in the @$$ but there are work arounds.
u might find these codes useful:
offline .net framework install: "Dism /online /enable-feature /featurename:NetFX3 /All /Source:X:\sources\sxs /LimitAccess" X is your disk/image location
desktop shuffle option: (classic win 7 like background options)
"C:\Windows\System32\rundll32.exe shell32.dll,Control_RunDLL desk.cpl,,@desktop"
I don't know WHY they hide the shuffle option... :/ WHY?!!!
on AMD win 10 driver performance is buttery smooth. the is a minor graphic glitch in steam chat window though. 1% chance to happen.
other then that, every game works good. some say there are minor issues with dota 2 fps jumps... well with r9 270x I have no fps jumps.
be sure to check out your mobo win 10 drivers in your mobo site. mine recommended only installing my audio driver, other then that it's good. if it's not, there is windows update so no worries.
I love linux, I even installed xubuntu on my dad's pc, my favorite flavor. but I can't live on dual boot system! :d shame.
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Its a sensible choice. Go ahead. LXDE is a great desktop!
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true, i like it, tho i have trouble running steam there (works fine - slow - but fine through WINE) i get most of the text in black-white squares...and a white blank page instead the web-store tab :-/
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Remotely sounds like the bug i encountered earlier. Try running steam.exe without directwrite support.
http://askubuntu.com/questions/214361/steam-not-displaying-text-on-wine-1-5-running-on-ubuntu-12-04
I suggested in the above thread to use PlayOnLinux.. please do so and upgrade to a more recent variant of Wine - e.g. 1.7.x with active CSMT highly recommened. Of course thats basically running Steam in windows mode.
Fixing Steam-Linux should be tackled too.
I heavily assume your graphics drivers are running ? on a console prompt (open terminal) a simple
$ glxgears
should run and show some cogs twisting around. Performance should be north of 1000fps.
and a $ glxinfo | grep direct
should read something like "direct rendering: yes"
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what i meant was that on wine steam works - but slow...
without wine steam does the white-black squares thing...
lxgears - didnt work, i installed mesa-utils, now it works ^_^
glxinfo | grep direct - output is "yes"
steam - same problem :-/
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Not sure whats going on. I can just offer to have a look myselves. If you install teamviewer on your rig i can have a glimpse whats going on. Can't promise anything though.
https://www.teamviewer.com/de/download/linux.aspx
(can't do this in the next 3h, afterwards fine - add me on steam for getting in touch if you want)
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i will appreciate it...tho take in consideration i have a crappy connection on that rig (took me 15 min just to download TeamViewer)
i will send an invite on steam (tho i probably wont be able to do this before sunday ^_^)
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Thanks for the nice win recipes... i'm saving them might come in handy later :)
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You could dual boot, then go full win 10 later if you feel like it, and have sorted any concerns. I have been using win 10 technical preview for ages but still retain a linux partition. I find gaming performance good on 10 so far.
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Currently Ubuntu - I like Debian-based distros in general.
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Use Lubuntu, its quite lightweight thanks to LXDE.
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thats what i use tho i have problem with steam on it...on wine steam works - but slow...
without wine steam does insted of text a white-black squares thing...
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Installing windows steam with playonlinux can help, but I find store a bit broken under wine with missing images in recent versions...used web store instead when on linux.
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i read here and there of users say that there is improvement of 10-20% on system/gaming performance (even on older rigs and graphic cards) so the question is it true? is it worth switching to?
if so what exactly do you need to do (by steps if possible) in order to:
thanks :-)
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