What do you think of the message portrayed in this movie?
I have the feeling POTATO is going to be a popular option :)
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Don't you just love the sg forum
If only POTATO would have been running for president in the US, I'm sure he would have won by a landslide.
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Years ago Mr Moore managed to get a ficus plant to win a local election for mayor
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Should't college be free?
College should not be free. If college was free, then taxpayers would suffer, and college students wouldn't be as motivated to do well. Most high school students don't like attending high school. Some would go for no other reason than to be there, and essentially would make college worse for those that have a greater sense of purpose. Therefore, college could potentially become the new standard. "Oh, you dropped out of college? What a loser". Whereas nowadays, a high school level of education is perfectly acceptable.
Should't people get paid holidays?
The wording here is a bit ambiguous, but I think I can compromise. The only people that should get paid holidays, are the people that work on said holidays. Otherwise the US would have the potential to become like France, à la too many worker rights . :v
Should't prisons be focused on getting prisoners back to society?
I want to say that prisons should be focused on retaining prisoners, but I'm not too sure about that :/
But prisoners are usually in prison for a reason. Asylums are a thing, right? I think that's where people should focus on getting other people back into society.
Should't women be paid just as much as men?
Women should be paid just as much as men. Gender equality, hurrah. Not sarcasm Just 'cause genders have different hormone levels, worker a gets paid more than worker b? Even though worker b does the job just as good or even better than worker a? What kind of logic is that. Pay rates should match with the quality and level of precision the worker exhibits.
Should't kids get proper food in school (considering the amount of obese kids)?
Kids should get proper food, but schools are in no way contributing to obese kids. Throughout my childhood, I have attended many intermediary schools, and out of all of them, the main complaint was that the food served via the school was practically cardboard (In both taste, and nutritional value). Yes, schools should serve nutritional food.
Should't healthcare be paid by everyone, so its affordable for all?
Not everyone should have to pay for healthcare, because then people wouldn't aspire to better themselves, and the quality of doctors would drop. Yes, because some important jobs (I can't think of any off the top of my head) don't qualify you for health insurance, and more affordable affordable healthcare would make the lives of said people better.
Should't sex education be focused on contraception in stead of abstinence.
Yes and no. Another personal experience of mine, but the health class I attended did focus on contraception. My teacher liked saying that abstinence was the best contraception. But I'm not sure about other sex educations.
Should't schools give less homework for kids to be able to socialize and process what they have learned?
That depends on the school, and how interactive the class that gives out homework. As far as I know, homework is entirely up to each teacher. There are some good reasons for homework, but when teachers give out homework for the sake of giving out homework, it sucks.
Should't it be forbidden to let prisoners do work for less than minimum wage?
Yes and no. Something about prisoners having reduced basic rights. I'm not too sure about this topic.
Is it true America is still so incredibly racist? Why? And will any of this ever change?
Yes and no. Part of America is still racist, but you can't pin that on America because the culture is vastly different across the country. That would be like calling Europe racist because of a providence here and there contain a higher level of racist folk than the rest of Europe.
Can America change for the better? or is it just doomed forever?
Nobody can really say whether or not an entire country is doomed, but when the time comes, America won't be doomed, the whole planet will be.
This is solely my opinion. You're free to disagree, but don't be rude about it.
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Nah, it'd be something they'd get 4 free. They should work hard for this! Nothing is free!
But really, people should be able to learn if they want to. It's like one of our basic needs, if neanderthals would say "No, it's my rock, won't tell you how to use rock, bc you don't have your own rock and you're poor" we'd be long eaten by big predators few thousands years ago. It's not cool to limit people ability to grow, by putting ridiculously hight paywalls along the way
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I feel like people in America think it is unfair for everyone to get benefits that everyone has to pay for. In other countries it would be considered unfair if no one was willing to help you pay for basic needs if you can not afford them. This is quite an interesting difference. How did this come about?
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In other countries however, it comes out through your taxes, and you end up paying that way. In addition, rather then having a high paywall, their is a high intelligence wall, which requires you to have a high intelligence in order to be able to attend, rather then being able to take out a loan.
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For education, part of the only reason it's so expensive is because colleges know that the government will provide you with all the money you need, and therefore do not need to compete price wise. Also, almost anyone can take out a loan because of that, and pay it off after college. Secondly, the healthcare is only temporarily cheaper, and worse in many ways. For example, why should I have to pay for some one else's drug habits, when I worked hard to keep from having drug problems and damaging my body in order to have to pay for it? I just feel you pay for what you have done, and for what you need. Also thirdly, I consider an American anyone who has currently legally immigrated to the US, or relative has. For me, there is no real cut off point. And as for the native american question, it really isn't fair to say that. Europeans came, and conquered to which they owe nothing for. The nation became theirs, and therefore they became the citizens, and of course should have offered the natives citizenship. Also, I don't really think of it as a "fuck everyone approach", rather a pay for yourself approach. For example, if you were to as you say need an organ transplant, or get tee boned by a drunk person, you payed for insurance to safe guard against that kind of an accident. The insurance functions because you paid for protection, you aren't owed protection against accidents. And also as I have said and you have said, you don't want to pay for someone else's accident. If you didn't ram someone else's car, why should you pay? Exactly why you shouldn't be forced to cover someone else's fees.
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Yes the government does not provide for the full cost, but it certainty doesn't help the price. But you're missing part of the point. Over your lifetime, more then the price of the tuition is taken from you in the form of taxes, making it actually more expensive.
The healthcare in other countries are also only cheaper because it is taken out of your taxes, and you also cause the country to slow down economically paying for healthcare. The healthcare is only top notch because every single thing of healthcare is the best, whereas it averages out to lower quality in america due to our shitty mixture of private and Obamacare. With Obamacare in place, you lose money for NOT having insurance, and the insurance you have to buy for Obamacare is expensive and really shitty. If Obamacare was out of the way, privatized insurance would be able to offer cheaper plans and better plans for lower as they have more competition and must stay competitive in order to remain in business. Overtime however, as shown with Obamacare the costs do nothing but rise over time with the same shitty care as before.
As for the price of insurance, they are not cheap in comparison to the free ones in other countries. But as I have said and hate to have to reiterate, the insurance is paid in taxes, and the government growth slows down in accordance with how much they still lose from it. And yes, it's not cheap to buy insurance. But the reason it's so expensive is so the insurance company can afford to pay for any actual issues you may face due to injury or accidents, and therefore are cost money. (can't make money out of nothing) And as you said, of course they make money off of insurance. However, they only make money because you are more likely to not need it, then need it. If they weren't to make money, there would be a deficit, and that would cost the country or company money. Also, insurance is not meant to cover all of an expense. They are meant to assist, therefore heavily reducing the bone marrow, but still sadly not making it free. Also, as the government, they can't possibly and shouldn't need to oversee all citizens. The government is inefficient with their money and processes, and without the government being involved it helps lower the cost.
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I'm sorry, but to reduce the overhead cost of the EU to only the 6000 (ie. 6%) staff cost by excluding the remaining 27000 other people that spend more costs, is a feat of sheer excellence. The EU is complete overhead in itself.
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If Obamacare was out of the way, privatized insurance would be able to offer cheaper plans and better plans for lower as they have more competition and must stay competitive in order to remain in business.
Then why didn't they do just that before Obamacare ? In many sectors, competition doesn't mean better prices, insurances and telephony are good examples.
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I'm not quite sure of what you mean by "taxpayers"
Taxpayers is simply a broad term used to describe someone in the sense that they pay taxes. Different states have different variations of taxes. For instance, Oregon doesn't have sales tax, but Washington does. So I guess when I say taxpayers would suffer, I mean that people with lower income would have to pay higher taxes disproportionate to there needs, and people with higher income would benefit from it. But if taxes here were actually suitable for every individual, then your point would hold ground, and to that I say great.
you need to attend and actually demonstrate that you are studying, by doing your homework, passing your tests and stuff.
I'm not too sure, but I think we still have this aspect to our colleges (at least in some states). There's this program called Running Start, and it essentially allows high school students in there last two school years to work towards earning their associate degree (the equivalent of a 2 year degree) tuition free, while at the same time earn their high school diploma. Running Start students still have to pay administration fees, and pass their classes in order to continue being a Running Start student. The problem though is that people fear the thought of having a higher educational standard
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I like Michael Moore. Watched many of his documentaries.
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I suppose a lot of Americans hate Moore. Maybe because he is often the bearer of bad news, or maybe because they "just hate him".
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Or because he is so wrapped up in his own conspiracy theories that it is a miracle he wasn't caught on camera running around with his underpants on his head screaming the lizardmen infested his brain with their eggs through some Big Macs.
Not saying the US as a society couldn't learn a few things (starting with actually the process of learning…), but I cannot say I am sad that Moore has gradually faded out of the collective conscious in the past decade or so.
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Yeah, Moore isn't exactly a shining figure who's only negative quality is "bearing bad news"
While some stuff he does is OK & overall good, Moore himself flip flops on lots of issues, and lies & has crazy conspiracies etc etc. America could be a lot better of course, and Moore isn't entirely bad, but plenty of the hate he gets is not just because people "just hate him."
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I agree with you, but you don't need to use such language to insult them. This is a place where people come and give gifts, and have conversations and debates. I don't believe (or hope) that people here are as convoluted as people are on Reddit in their liberal echo chambers.
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I don't really have any idea where America is heading. I just watched this documentary and was wondering how sg would feel about this pessimistic view of today's America. The title of this topic is just to grab people's attention XD.
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Michael Moore is just one big, fat idiot..
Don't believe anything that clown ever says..
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I think a lot of people share this opinion with you. I haven't yet figured out why though. Maybe they all do for different reasons.
I neither love nor hate mr. Moore, I think he sometimes points out interesting issues that otherwise aren't discussed.
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Because his documentaries are like watching a homeopathy convention. You grab one random fact and go out of your damn way to create scenarios where it can stand true.
There can be documentaries where some historical facts are used in clever ways to convey a portrayed truth. Oliver Stone did that in a 2012 series about the Cold War, depicting most Republicans as a bunch of war-mongering money-hungry immoral pieces of cuntfart who actively fucked up half the planet so it would be more comfortable for them back home. But it was presented in a way that was actually credible unless you are so much on the right that even Breitbart sounds like a liberal media for you.
Moore's stuff are tabloids. They just run around sensationalism, putting him in the news, hoping that if what he says is repeated at enough outlets people may actually start believing it. The only difference between Moore and Fox News is that Moore is not sponsored by a bunch of elitist white dudes who'd sooner let entire continents die than lose another 30 dollars on their stocks.
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Wwait, most Republicans aren't a bunch of war-mongering money-hungry immoral pieces of cuntfart (?) who actively fucked up half the planet? OH MY, WHO COULD HAVE KNOWN?!
:)
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They actually are, but most are just simply simple as a brick.
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Guess I'm in the minority but I am proud when I say my belief:
I am NOT a US citizen, and I think the US is good as is, and should not adopt any of these foreign and/or socialist ideas on how to 'run' a country.
The constitution and being a REPUBLIC is working great for them.
Socialist regions like the EU are going to hell and anyone who knows history knows socialism has NEVER worked well and never will.
Michael Moore is a paid loser with special interests, he had his 9/11 movie but unfortunately he's with the globalists/establishment, they invade places so they establish their central bank..it's not about money or oil, it's about power.
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"is a paid loser with special interest"
Congratulations you just described every participant in American politics.
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Trump funded his own campaign. Welcome to the real world where negotiations happen to get work done.
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That made literally no sense; negotiations or trumps campaign financing had nothing to do with the point I made. I'm glad to see you edited your initial post to clarify that you are down with the super conspiracy XD
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It made perfect sense. It's not a conspiracy, globalists exist.
Congratulations you are a perfect programmed sheep.
the XD shows how serious you are
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No the XD shows how not serious I am about you. Again you fail to advance the conversation; your one liners, 4 chan rehashes, and petty ad hominem remarks aren't impressing anyone.
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I'm just saying what's going on but you are in denial. I'm just telling you the new world order plan is real (there's enough info out there) but you call it a conspiracy theory like the mass media tells you. Hey it's your choice. I'm not replying here again.
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No you aren't "just telling me" and your problem is you don't even see that. I would have been much more open to your opinion if you didn't come across all condescending, actually had something constructive to say, or even took the time to think about what I was saying before you dismissed me as a sheep. I even said I would prefer you to elaborate and all you did was try to insult me. I'll take it you've conceded you can't have a simple debate because of your cowardly choice not to reply when you instigated a fight. Your behavior is the reason why "negotiations" don't happen often enough.
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the edit button is there for a reason, people can correct themselves and typos dumbass
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So correcting your typos is adding entire sentences and I'm the dumbass. It shows how strong ones point is when they resort to this sort of response. The only point I initially made was that all of our politicians are corrupted by special interests and that its built into our system and you projected so much onto me from that its hilarious.
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You do realise that he appointed a board member of one of the biggest US banks as his financial minister and so far all his government comes from the old guard of the Republican party, yes? He is about as outside the establishment as Kanye West is a sensible person who would be the best US president ever after his 2020 election.
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Propose a solution then? hillary with a million crimes (inc. pedo clinton foundation and SA+soros backers) under her belt, commie sanders, lying ted with the goldman sachs wife, waterboy robio or $grabbing jill stein. Give me a break.
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Sanders at least had ideas. Like showing the US that there are political shades beyond "somewhat central right" and "just a small step away from inviting the Ku Klux Klan to barbecue night right" on the US political palette. (Assuming the "Murica is for its original white Murican population only, my Cherokee friend totally agrees on it" alt-right stays like as it is now, some barking dogs to let someone at the Deep South to vote for.)
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Sanders is a socialist. The USSR and Nazis were socialist. Learn history and how many died and how people lived.
He even got cheated out of his voted from Killary and then supported her, he is a cuck.
KKK thing was a media propaganda tool, you should know who the one sided-media were backing.
Even Soros funded BLM through moveon and correct the record. Look online for the buses of paid rioters.
Just so you know who Bernie told you to vote for:
Kiss
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Well, talgaby is Hungarian (just as myself), we are living in a country which were both nazi and socialist :P
And the buses were for a congress nearby, not for protestors. Even the guy first tweeted about the buses admitted he was wrong.
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Learn some history too! It was the republicans who freed the slaves. Also Obama doubled national debt of the country to almost $20trillion since he was in office and did nothing for blacks in America. I know many black people who voted for Trump so give it a rest because whites don't have rights either.
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Political party had nothing to do with freeing the slaves. They were freed because Lincoln was a smart politician. He was noted for not being an abolitionist and didn't feel that blacks deserved the same rights as whites. Emancipation was a completely military based policy and was an incredibly smart one at that because it gave him access to a vast resource the south didn't have. A large amount of people who actually wanted to fight. Perhaps you should learn some history too.
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The answer isn't as binary as "should we do it America's way or the socialists way" as your poll options would suggest.... so I picked potato....
I think the answer to most of your questions is yes actually. The problems shown in the film are exaggerated to make the film more polarizing, I think hope is justified (long term), and I think he certainly is painting too pretty of a picture for comparison of France, Italy, and Finland.
As for Obamacare, I was against it at first and it has already exceeded my expectations as far as success goes. It's not that I'm against Obama but I am highly skeptical of anything in that socialist realm (maybe I'm just bitter since social security won't be around when I'm old enough to retire yet I'm forced to pump money into its dead lifeless body). I'm open to improving Obamacare as it is now or removing it but there has to be a realistic change to our healthcare system if we remove it. I guess it boils down to - I think there are better changes we can make to our healthcare system but Obamacare was a step in the right direction (maybe just not the best choice). I expect Trump to fuck it up.
Looking at the state of our government right now I'd say we are doomed for the next 4 years but i hope we can come together after the dust settles; actually I hope we can before, i just don't believe it will happen.... America is very separated right now. Not trying to get into one of those Trump vs Clinton debates, as soon as they became the two options America had already lost regardless of the outcome.
I enjoyed the film and it was very thought provoking. In his entire catalog I find myself disagreeing with Moore just as much as I agree with him but it certainly does what its supposed to do, make you think.
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sitting on the fence is as bad as letting someone into your house and let them take everything from you, learn from history and do research
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Where did I say I was sitting on the fence? I feel like I stated my opinions very clearly and if you're too dense to see that its not my problem.... I voted and I have strong opinions on every topic we talked about but I'd rather hear others opinions and responses to what I've said instead of giving you a point by point explanation of everything we should do to make things better. Frankly, you have failed to advance this conversation in any way and that's disappointing since you clearly disagree with me.
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You have no opinion of your own. You don't stand your ground. You are passive.
Do your own research.
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Again, I have very strong opinions and it is very ignorant of you to assume I haven't "done research" as you keep saying. I'll also say again, if your reading comprehension is too low to see what my opinion is and you resort to talking down to me because of it there's no point continuing this conversation.
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Just ignore them. Looking at the previous statements this is either a troll or someone who thinks their own opinion is the only right one and others are just socialists, communists, passive, lazy or whatever currently fits.
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Where is the option to vote for I'm not a US citizen and I think the whole (western) world is fucked until we get rid off neo-liberal fascists? :)
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Because obviously everyone should copy Eastern countries like, dunno, Mianmar. Or the Philippines. Sure, half of Asia and Africa, plus some of South America are literally killing themselves to live in Europe or North America, but I guess those are the misinformed people who don't know that our society is totally doomed and heading to the wrong direction.
There was an old socialist joke about this: "Where is Capitalism headed?" "Off the cliff!" "And where is Socialism?" "Always one step ahead!" Funny enough, socialism is supposedly dead, yet the right-wing populists are using the exact damn speeches now, only replacing "the people" with "the nation".
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Should't college be free?
No, because college is never free. The difference is that students pay for college upfront in america, while students elsewhere pay taxes to cover the college expenses. And even if it was free, why should I have to pay for something that isn't mine? If I decided not to go to college, why should I have to pay for someone else's degree? Also, "free" college only allows the best of the best to go, where as a paid college allows anyone who qualifies for financial aid or are capable of taking a loan to attend the school.
Should't people get paid holidays?
While I do believe that some standards should be set, forcing employees to pay huge starting salaries and tons of vacation time to first level careers is not a good idea. The way salary goes, you should expect to get more pay as your experience, and efficiency increase, rather then a salary that you should expect could support an entire family straight from the get-go. Also, as for vacation time most decent jobs provide vacation time, and I think it would be a little odd if a good job did not offer you any vacation.
Should't prisons be focused on getting prisoners back to society?
I will agree here, that prisons should not be private, as they have too few of rules that allow them to get away with things like that. I do believe the free market is almost always the best option, but I don't hail it as a god and believe it could be applied to this.
Should't women be paid just as much as men?
They do, the 77 cents for a dollar things is just a myth that doesn't account for many factors such as job experience, career, or hours worked.
Short comedic video by maddox that helps explain this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDj_bN0L8XM
Should't kids get proper food in school (considering the amount of obese kids)?
I do agree that kids are not getting proper food in school, however it's almost impossible to get the perfect balance. There are many places where nutritionist disagree, but here is what I believe would make the perfect lunch: A Paleo based lunch. It has been proven fat is perfectly fine for you, however when eaten in conjunction with carbs (sugar is also a carb) and grains, it is not good for you at all and leads to weight gain. Therefore, it would never change well enough to accommodate for this considering there are countries that serve school lunches like this that I am aware of. Also, the obese figure is somewhat exaggerated, as it is not quite as bad as most people speak of it. (Just a bit of my opinion)
Should't healthcare be paid by everyone, so its affordable for all?
Healthcare being a government provided service is what makes it not affordable in the first place! Healthcare might be cheaper at first, but in the long run it makes it way more expensive. (obamacare premiums have increased tremendously) When there is no competition to provide better services, the quality plateaus, and price increases overtime. Unlike with prisons, if they were to be privatized, companies would be forced to offer better quality healthcare, and at increasingly more competitive prices in order to stay afloat, or people would not purchase their healthcare.
Should't sex education be focused on contraception in stead of abstinence.
This one I definitely disagree with, as I am a christian, and therefore sexual relations should not be pursued until marriage, however I understand not everyone is christian. Therefore, I still believe sexual relations should not be normalized, as there is no point in normalizing the most intimate thing a couple can interact within, and therefore should not become a normality.
Should't schools give less homework for kids to be able to socialize and process what they have learned?
While I do wish schools would cram less down children's throats, there is a better way to change this besides changing homework: removing core curriculum. Core curriculum is basically a set of standards that a school needs to complete on a yearly basis, and leads to many problems. For example, if a teacher is forced to teach core curriculum, they have to conform their units to fit the standards, rather then a curriculum that already fit with the standards. I am still currently a high school student, so I can tell how it has really changed over the years from when I was in earlier grades. Now that teachers have to create units in the standard, their units become less interesting, and they are less motivated or excited to teach them as they are practically given to them. If the teachers were to be able to create their own curriculum, in my opinion they would be able to teach more efficiently (erasing the current homework problem), more effectively (more thought based then standardized based) and create better students that are taught how they can think, not how to or what to think.
Should't it be forbidden to let prisoners do work for less than minimum wage?
Prisoners are in jail because they committed a crime, not because they are taking a vacation. While prisoners should not be living in concentration camp like standards while working for free, they should also not be in the Scandinavian prisons in which rooms are better then the homes of some people! So I feel like they are alright right now, and don't really need much work in that department of prisons.
Is it true America is still so incredibly racist?
It really depends on your perspective, as many people are confused on many things leading to them claiming that there is some racism. Donald Trump for example, has been called a racist for his immigration policy. I really do not understand how, because he is truly in favor of immigrants entering the country once they have gone through the proper work, but against people doing the equivalent of butting in line and illegally enter the country. (illegal is not a race!) In addition, many of the racist acts people have said have happened since he won, are mostly fabricated. For example, "a female student at the University of Louisiana at Lafayette claimed to have been beaten, robbed and had her hijab ripped off by two men, one of them wearing a white 'Trump' hat, police and university officials said." This was proven to be a false police report as indicated by the women herself.: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/11/10/women-in-hijabs-on-2-campuses-say-they-were-attacked-by-men-invoking-donald-trump/?utm_term=.a61dd3fb98f1
I do believe that some racist acts are still happening, but not all of them are out and about like people want you to believe, and not as racist as it has been said.
Also almost forgot, socialism is a country destroyer, it ruins perfectly good economies. For example, Denmark went from having a rapidly growing economy, to at one point actually experiencing negative growth.
Overall, most of the socialist ideas I oppose because most of them cause more problems then they solve, and are misguided as what fixes problems. It's not about what FEELS good, it's about what DOES good. : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rOb_z-yYrU
If anyone wants to talk about anything I have said go ahead and respond, I am up for a good debate. However, I will not respond to you if you respond with racism, misogyny, or any other god damn isms that blindly throw hate at people. Thank you for your time for anything you have read from above.
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The difference of course is that people without children, and rich people, all contribute to the school system too meaning the overal cost of tuition all students have to pay is lower than if they would have paid for school themselves.
Why do you think prison should't be focused on rehabilitation?
Your opinion on sex ed is interesting. Before I had heard about American schools teaching abstinence in stead of contraception, I did not even know it was common practice to not teach about contraception at all. I understand this comes from the bible, and I get that, but why not teach both?
Many countries do not have a warm lunch in school, or a cafeteria, and even that (bringing your own food to school) I think is better than eating french fries in school.
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But they also pay for school through taxes, meaning they pay to get in, and they pay their entire lives regardless. Why should someone without children that never went to college still have to pay? Also, college is not that hard to pay for, you just need to take a loan, and get a part time job throughout college. That way, you can pay partially as you go, and with your new job you can pay off your debt. Plus, the US schools are privatized, and therefore do not receive any government money except the money that some students borrow from the government.
Also, I never said that prisons shouldn't, I just said they shouldn't be private. When they are private, some prisons try their best to keep prisoners in for as long as possible in order to earn the most money on them. In the case of prisons, the government should run them so the prison is not focused on keeping them in. We actually agree here, I just worded it oddly.
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The idea that someone without kids pays for a next door neighbor's child's college, and a perfectly healthy stranger pays for someone else's cancer treatment, to people in some countries sounds no more strange than the idea that some people will be paying taxes for roads they will never drive on. This is, I suppose, a cultural difference.
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Paying for someone else's cancer treatment is the reason you purchase insurance, so you don't have to pay for it by yourself. Also, if you caused the cancer by drugs or other reckless behavior, you really have no one to blame but yourself.Also, paying for someone else's college is not a good idea because it makes no sense. If you are paying for your college, and your neighbor pays for theirs, it balances out. I don't see why a person who doesn't need any college or children that need it should have to support those who decide to take on such a financial decision.
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but you would be willing to pay for a highway you will never drive on?
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Also, college is not that hard to pay for, you just need to take a loan
http://www.wsj.com/articles/more-than-40-of-student-borrowers-arent-making-payments-1459971348
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The government can give students financial aid (federal student loans) and you therefore can't have too much of an issue. Also, as indicated by this: http://www.collegeloan.com/college-loan-corp-news/student-loan-articles/how-to-pay-for-college-and-not-go-broke/
we have many opportunities in america in order to get savings. Just because some people didn't plan ahead doesn't mean it should be free
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Depending on how you do it, you could go to community college for your general courses that you are required to take for $2000 a semester, then transfer into a college, and get in a bit of debt depending on the college, degree, and length, and many other factors. This could add up to $100,000 or more (never really heard of more then $150,000) if you go to the best of the best, which you have little chance of getting in. However, if you take a good degree this could be paid off in no time, as opposed to being taxed $200,000+ throughout the course of your life. Basically, a top tier US university is still less then a low tier European university in the long run. (Like an xbox vs a computer, xbox starts cheaper)
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sorry, I mean you specifically, do you get in debt? How much?.
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That is the price of the schools overall, therefore not including income or the loss from the loan, you can expect to receive a bit of debt. However, if you take a decent degree this is not a lot of money.
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Really my english is that bad?
Anyone could help me to clarify my question?
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Your English is fine.
He just didn't answer your question.
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I am a bit confused, your english is fine, but what where you trying to ask? I thought you were asking how much do you get into debt, so I responed with the fact that that was the the average full cost.
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I think you replied to the wrong person. I didn't ask you anything.
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I am asking about your personal experience, if you ask borrowed money to study in college? Or how do you pay for it? I suppose you are an american citizen. As non English native speaker sorry for any typo or misunderstood.
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I am currently in high school, so I have not needed to borrow for college. I understand what you were asking now, sorry
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Well now I understand your point of view, I could suggest at some point of your life, volunteer at something, not on your church or school, somewhere else, and talk with people to know a bit of his life. And live at least 1 year on your own (your own money, food, bills, etc). Just a suggestion.
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You make some great points here; I agree with about 80% of what you said. For one thing, Obamacare's impact on healthcare expenses hasn't been nearly as damaging as we expected. While I think there are better options than a universal healthcare option there are much more damaging issues that we should address. Pharmaceutical companies shouldn't be able to advertise the way they do to the masses and price gouging should be scrutinized heavier in the industry, its disgustingly rampant (looking at you epipens).
I also disagree on your comments about not normalizing sexual intercourse before marriage. Everything you have posted outside this is based on logic but this isn't. This is based on religion alone and frankly I want my kids to learn the facts. That doesn't mean we shouldn't promote abstinence in our schools as well as contraception but to base our education off your religion is wrong to me. You are free to teach your kids to live how they want but the premarital sex issue is a lost battle and rather than hiding our heads in the hole and ignoring the facts we are better off teaching kids why they should be abstinent until they are older or what their options are if they do have sex.
Finally on your point about America's racism... I used to think we aren't but I've changed my mind since the election and the events that have followed. I am a white male and I've never felt so alienated form my own culture because I choose not to participate in bigotry. My girlfriend is Asian and the things that have happened to her friends at their universities are mind blowing. Members of my family are more outspoken and inappropriate than I've ever heard. Sure you could say that's all anecdotal but its happening all over..... Just like your article is completely anecdotal and doesn't really prove that America isn't racist.
The immigration policy isn't the only reason Trump was called a racist. I remember him attacking those Muslim parents of that gold star Army Officer, he attacked Judge Curiel "because he was Mexican," he has had obvious discrimination against black people over his entire career (sued twice by justice department), he only disavowed the white supremacists supporting him AFTER he was elected, still bitches about that "was Obama born in the US" nonsense, and he literally stereotyped Jews and other races on multiple occasions in his campaigning. Not once has he ever said anything racist about personally and I still find him an extremely offensive person. You say we aren't racist but we have elected an inherently racist person into office. I was surprised at how racist we actually are as a country.
Everything else you said I agree with though. I know it doesn't sound like it since I only typed what I disagreed with but we can't have an intelligent conversation if all we do is agree with each other haha.
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I understand where you are coming from on the sexual intercourse, as I really have almost no opinion on it. While I am fine with it being discussed, it shouldn't be normalized to the point that people think it's alright, and is a one night stand thing. People need to understand how important it is, when it should be done, and how much it brings people together. Basically, I do not want people to think of it as a one night stand thing.
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I understand your one night stand point. At the age this stuff is being taught they shouldn't be thinking along those terms. Once they are old enough to understand the safety, dangers, and repercussions let them make that decision. I wouldn't go so far as to damn everyone that has one night stands but at the age when we are being taught sex education encouragement of one night stands shouldn't happen.
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We didn't elect Trump at all. We elected Hillary.
The Electoral College gave it to Trump.
And furthermore, I think that you're selling a lot of the voters who voted for Trump short. The bipartisan system means Americans basically get to pick one or the other, and in cases of national policy many people may be stuck voting for a candidate they find personally repulsive but may at least do the job as they believe it ought to be done. Not saying that there aren't racists out there, but I suspect that what many are calling racism is misdirected fear and media fueled anxiety. As a label, so many things are branded "racist" nowadays its almost difficult to keep up with, and people are awfully quick to assign terrible traits to wide swaths of the populace.
But that is just my opinion.
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Sorry for the late reply. While I respect your opinion I have to disagree with it.
I understand the difference between Hillary winning the popular vote and Trump winning the Electoral vote but we still have the system in place as is and we allowed this to happen. I've been a fan of abolishing the electoral college since I was young enough to know what it actually was but the system is still here.
As for the racism part, I never said Trump VOTERS are racist; in fact I never addressed the voters at all. I said many of my culture were more racist than I realized and many peoples actions after the election changed my mind about America's racism overall. The question was about America's racism not Trump voters racism. I am not quick to label anything racist but as I said, I am going of specific anecdotal incidents that WERE racist. There was no gray area or "labeling."
I know majority of trump voters voted for the exact reason you described, that was never a doubt in my mind. I personally know people who voted for trump based on racism and they are open about it (like I said including family members). I think you're painting with a pretty wide swathe that includes me just because I've spoken out against Trump. I also know plenty of people who voted for him who are definitely not racist and that's why I never said "Trump voters" as you so quickly defended,
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Implied, then, I suppose. Or I misread. Either way, my "wide swathes" comment was directed at this beauty:
"I am a white male and I've never felt so alienated form my own culture because I choose not to participate in bigotry."
As if painting "white male culture" as racist across the board by saying that not being a bigot excludes you from it is ridiculous.
Also, I do not care if you have "spoken out against Trump" it was more about correcting your statement. The American people do not possess the power nor the will to abolish the Electoral College, for a variety of factors that could be discussed at length - but I don't know that they should be here. As it stands, the American people chose Hillary and a small group of politicians decided the people were wrong.
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The literal definition of culture:
"the customary beliefs, social forms, and material traits of a racial, religious, or social group; also : the characteristic features of everyday existence (as diversions or a way of life) shared by people in a place or time."
I was speaking about my and my family, friends, social circles, and local organizations. Apparently you read every sentence except the one where I talked about my opinion probably being based of anecdotal evidence. I used the "white male" part because that's what I am and that's the people who I interact with that are as I described. It's your choice to get defensive and assume I was referring to everyone who is a white male and its very far fetched for anyone to say all white males are racist as you seem to be accusing me of saying. Ridiculous is right.
"Also, I do not care if you have "spoken out against Trump" it was more about correcting your statement." YOU didn't correct anything; you made assumptions about what I was saying, got defensive, and brought up the electoral college which, as you said yourself, is irrelevant. If you're going to try and correct the statement "we elected" by saying I was ignoring the fact that the electoral college elected him, you are being very pedantic and adding irrelevant parts to this conversation. If I have to spell it out for you so you stop being so defensive I will: I don't judge you or most of the people who voted for Trump, but my opinion on the level of racism has changed because of the number of people that voted for him for the wrong reasons. There are plenty of people who I have talked to who voted for him for the exact reasons one should vote for a candidate that they approve of and I don't have a problem with that.
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You've still got death penalty, nuff said. Still, living in modern Russian reality it's hard to percieve the USA as "doomed" - everything is relative, I guess. BTW, my answers to almost all of the questions from the 5th paragraph would be positive.
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I understand what you are saying, and I think mr. Moore might be sugarcoating how great european and scandinavian countries are. As for Russia I know little about Russia. Every country has it's own flaws and its own upsides. But I do think it can be a valuable lesson to look at other countries for reference and to get inspired to maybe change the way a country handles certain matters.
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I honestly don't care. The only issue I have is that a lot (definitly not all) of americans seem to think that America is the best thing ever and that they are superior to everyone else in the world. It's not really an issue here on SG, but if you check Youtube, Reddit or whatever other forum or site you might visit, you'll notice this pretty quickly.
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I don't know about College being free, but the cost shouldn't be anywhere near as high as it currently is. School loans should also be dischargeable in bankruptcy like every other form of debt.
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Every time a documentary comes out. Every time pseudo-intellectuals get together for a podcast. Every time we have an election. Everyone ignores the truth of reality: The Bell Curve of Intelligence. Having worked at the same job for almost 14 years (and a second job for 5), I can tell you with confidence that people in general are bad at making decisions. And always will be. Most people, most of the time, will look for the laziest way to solve a problem. Having kids with someone you know you don't love. Doing a bad job at work, because you know you won't get fired (or care if you do). Smoking cigarettes like a chimney when all the data says not to. Driving too fast, when all the data says not to.
America is the same thing it's always been, just scaled up. The awfuls will always be with us. Google "Dunning-Kruger Effect".
You have a good day now. :)
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You're leaving everything at the personal responsibility level. It's well known that humans are sub-optimal at navigating life. That's why sensible countries have numerous policies in place to direct people away from problems and bad decisions and towards improvement. But in the US, this line of thinking is apparently hated with great passion. Which predictably leads to a screwed up society. Well, more screwed up than comparably wealthy ones, at least.
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Imho... The world is doomed altogether. That being said, Michael Moore is an idiot.
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Isn't Michael Moore creating too pretty of a picture of Italy
totally. he asked to the tipical middle/high class workers. good earnings, nice home, living standards relatively high. currently we are facing an overhall rasing in poverty, even among workers and the large majority of the middle class, raising every year (meaning = to live has become too expensive). currently there is a good 8% of the population living in poverty condition, with a 4% of it being classified as -total poverty.
but to unhearth the problems that we and the other european community are facing wasn't the meaning of his project, so.
side note: the paid holidays and the thirteenth (although only partially) where introduces during fascism.
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That is very interesting info. I never really associated Italy with socialism (more with Berlusconi:). I kind of already figured he did not choose a poor family. I know Italy quite well, and the image Moore was sketching I didn't really think was accurate (or at least not for the whole of Italy).
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despite deniers and ostracism, fascism was socialist as much it was the capitalist, the well known third way. mr berlusconi, well ... imo he rapresent the false alternation between left-wind and right-wind government in the past 70 years, during which the italian economic system has been voluntarily disbanded and sold to the parasitic internacional finance, starting with the devaluation of howr old currency ( the "lira") and the privatization of the state industrial power. truth be told, during his elected government (something not to take for granted here, lel), thing were a tiny bit better then now
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewrScvs_jOw
sadly yt english translation sucks :c
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While I have some opinions, I really don't feel like getting into a debate here, so I won't reply to your thoughts/questions, but I wanted to say thanks for critically thinking about what you've seen and demonstrating media literacy, something that I feel has been sorely lacking in most "discussions" I've seen here and on Twitter, YouTube etc. over the past months.
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I consider it highly unlikely that the US will improve much in its current state. The path to progress lies in socialist, secular and progressive policies, namely universal healthcare, subsidized higher education, sensible minimum wages, strict laws on overtime and paid vacations (especially maternity leave), extensive prisoner rehabilitation programs, massive reductions in copyright and patent length, government investments in critical research like medicines and GMOs, high taxes on the wealthiest to pay for all these things, significant inheritance taxes to cut down on the increase of inequality over generations, comprehensive sex education, free contraceptives, pro-abortion policies, strict banishment of religious nonsense from all education, extensive gay rights (not only marriage, but no discrimination when adopting, make discrimination illegal when trying to buy/rent a home, etc.), legalization of prostitution, legalization of marijuana, replacement of prison with forced rehab for illegal drug use, restrictions and eventual banning of tobacco, etc. Probably missing important things, this is what I could think of off the top of my head. Anyway, Americans are far too deeply and thoroughly brainwashed into hating socialism for the first part of these to happen, and the highly destructive and pervasive influence of the similarly brainwashed religious and reactionary parts of society is sure to prevent most of the second part.
I consider it more likely that the US will split at some point. Probably when a decisive progressive socialist liberal president gets elected eventually with a majority in both parts of parliament. Someone who will push through so many good policies so quickly that the backward parts of the country will rise in open revolt. Then the president would have to choose not to fight over it and let them leave. After that, there would be a country which quickly catches up with western europe and a country which falls further into a Saudi Arabia style theocracy. What happens after that, I can't predict.
Certainly an unlikely scenario, but more likely than the US actually becoming a decent country.
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Should't college be free?
Free is going to be relative. If everyone is paying taxes, college is not free - it is subsidized. This could be good but it depends on the implementation. Paying for college for jobs that will further the economy? Sure. A bunch of feel-good humanities and arts degrees? Pay for those yourself. My recommendation would be to use job statistics to find out what jobs are most in demand and have those use a deferred payment plan taken from your paycheck after you get a job. That would help fill job gaps and people who are going to college for job opportunities would know better where opportunities are in the economy.
Shouldn't people get paid holidays?
I'd rather have wage increases with the option to not work for a time unpaid. Then you would allow people the option to either continue working for more money or take time off based on their time or monetary priorities.
Shouldn't prisons be focused on getting prisoners back to society (rehabilitation rather than punishment)?
Yes.
Shouldn't women be paid just as much as men?
Yes.
Shouldn't kids get proper food in school (considering the amount of obese kids)?
Define proper. Eggs are good, eggs are bad. Food pyramid said we should have large amounts of grain for a long time. Should we have meat? What about vegans? Are we talking premade meals? Paying for chefs at each school?
Shouldn't healthcare be paid by everyone, so its affordable for all?
I would prefer the exchanges to be expanded, healthcare decoupled from employment and insurance paid for by the individual. An expanded marketplace will promote more competition. Besides, insurance isn't really the main problem with the American healthcare system - it's the approval process for drugs couples with no price regulations on drugs or procedures.
Shouldn't sex education be focused on contraception in stead of abstinence.
Yes. I also believe condoms should be freely available and paid for by taxes (yes, despite what I said above). Simply because it's cheap, effective and would drastically reduce unwanted pregnancies and STD transfers. Pays for itself.
Shouldn't schools give less homework for kids to be able to socialize and process what they have learned?
Schools should have more homework and less lecturing. Classrooms should be about participation and learning - not goofing off. Lower the amount of time that kids spend in classrooms but make that time more meaningful then give them extra time after school for studying and socializing.
Shouldn't it be forbidden to let prisoners do work for less than minimum wage?
You mentioned prisons should be for rehabilitation - a good work ethic does not seem bad in this regards. Also you're technically paying for their lodging, sustenance and security. If you're in prison, you owe a debt to society and I don't have a problem with them repaying that. That does not mean I think they should be treated like garbage and abused but I don't think earning a living is the point of prison. Also, who should and should not be in prison is a separate discussion - I'm assuming you did something that put you in prison in regards to this question.
Is it true America is still so incredibly racist?
Some, sure. Mostly older people and the more rural the more racist. Incredibly racist? Nah, not really. You'll see racism in every country but it really depends on how mixed the local environment is and if people grew up with people of mixed races as to whether they're racist.
Why?
And will any of this ever change?
Look at most polls about race issues - young people have had more exposure to the world, people of other races and other cultures. The world has never been as open-minded as it is in our time despite the media crying foul. Go back 50 years and look at the landscape anywhere in the world and look how a minority race was treated. Look at women's rights then vs now. How many countries had legalized gay marriage then vs now?
--- SUMMARY ---
Is there plenty of progress left to be done? Sure! But don't believe that the world is worse on social issues now than it was before. It's simply not the case.
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Is there plenty of progress left to be done? Sure! But don't believe that the world is worse on social issues now than it was before. It's simply not the case.
+1 A lot of people seem to think that our current situation is one fo the worst in (current) history, however I'd say it's one of the best in (all) history.
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I am from the US. I agree that many things still need work X) But as I am not part of any government agency or rich/wealthy enough to cause influence. I am basically powerless. Democratic as we proclaim to be. Things will not likely change much, good ol 'merrrica loves things its own way. hahah
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Democrats earned their position this campaign, When all your campaign does is poke the other side and call them neanderthalic racists for 2 terms and then go full force name-calling when the physical manefestiation of the color orange enters the ring.
You then proceeded to riot when you lost.
Democrats this year made me ashamed to call myself a liberal.
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I completely agree! I cannot wait for more stand ups on netflix to watch poking fun at what happens next! haha.
I am very liberal myself, i just meant the entire democratic process seems a bit faulty. More like a show, not as serious as the things at stake XD
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Has anyone seen this movie by Michael Moore called 'where to invade next'?
https://www.justwatch.com/ca/movie/where-to-invade-next
https://gowatchit.com/watch/movies/where-to-invade-next-310266
https://www.reddit.com/r/Documentaries/comments/4jqc3c/where_to_invade_next_2016_documentary_by_michael/d3a0ujt/
I don't know how I feel about this documentary. Does mr. Moore exaggerate America's troubles? Is Moore's optimism at the end of the movie still (since this movie is from 2015) justified? Isn't Michael Moore creating too pretty of a picture of Italy, France, Finland etc?
Why do you think the majority of Americans are against socialism and higher taxes (all across the board)? Are they really though?
Do you think Trump will stop Obama care? Should he? or Should't he?
This movie raises/discusses questions like:
Should't college be free? Should't people get paid holidays? Should't prisons be focused on getting prisoners back to society (rehabilitation rather than punishment)? Should't women be paid just as much as men? Should't kids get proper food in school (considering the amount of obese kids)? Should't healthcare be paid by everyone, so its affordable for all? Should't sex education be focused on contraception in stead of abstinence. Should't schools give less homework for kids to be able to socialize and process what they have learned? Should't it be forbidden to let prisoners do work for less than minimum wage? Is it true America is still so incredibly racist? Why? And will any of this ever change?
Can America change for the better? or is it just doomed forever? :)
Edit: Just to make sure. I am not trying to convey any message or opinion in this thread. I am literally asking the questions that were raised in the movie to the sg folks.
plz be nice to one another in the comment section.
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