I saw a recent topic in discussions, in which forum users discussed how much it is worth punishing a person for an emotional and stupid conversation on the Internet.
https://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/qnYxl/question-to-all-of-you-about-suspension-length-in-a-specific-case
I was surprised that they did not even allow the thought that they could pass by and not interfere in the private conversation of two fools.

But at the same time, it became interesting whether forum users are familiar with the work of Friedrich Nietzsche and how they feel about the following thought.
“O my brothers, am I then cruel? But I say: that which is falling should also be pushed!”

3 weeks ago

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How do you feel about this quote?

View Results
I rather agree with her.
I completely disagree with the philosophy of this quote.
I have not yet decided how to feel about this quote.
Banana.

I can't agree with her as F.Nietzsche was male. Tragedy of quotes torn out of context: picture a so-called zombie company is it better to keep it alive with governmental alimentation in eternity or shut it down immediately with all the negative consequences? Nietzsche would say close it asap.
I disagree, any conversation on a public forum is not private and should adhere to basic standards of courtesy.

3 weeks ago
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I'm sorry. By "her" I meant a quote)
Difficulties in translation.

3 weeks ago
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I see from your Steam profile that your native language is Russian, and I can understand where you are coming from (my native language is Spanish,) although I don't make mistakes like that one because I know English since a very young age (12~ years old.) Don't worry about it. Keep practicing and you'll get better with it.

You have gendered nouns and pronouns in Russian, too, just like in Romance languages.

3 weeks ago
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I think he's probably right. Based on my experience of trying to help people break out of drug addictions, I came to the conclusion that this is a waste of time and instead of living my only life in pleasure and improving my life and bringing joy to my family, I spend all my energy on useless attempts to improve someone else’s life.

3 weeks ago
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That's a cynical take but to each their own. To use a recent turn of phrase, "you do you" and if others feel like as a society we can and should improve, and they feel they should dedicate some of their lives to at least discussing the possibility, then it doesn't change your own decision not to.
Ironically you go out of your way to post a thread about someone else's thread about someone else's conversation because you think they should just ignore the problem and move on. Can you see the irony?

3 weeks ago
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I absolutely do not care about the fate of the participants in the dispute. I'm interested in what moral paradigm society is in.
This discussion thread got me thinking about these questions, so I've included it here for context. So I can’t point out the irony in this.

And so for me personally, the most relevant life principle right now may be the following quote. "Acquire the Spirit of Peace and a thousand souls around you will be saved."

3 weeks ago
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To be clear, I was not criticizing you or judging you for your statement that you seek inner peace rather than worry about what others will or won't do. It's your prerogative and if it works for you, fine.
I was merely pointing out that you seem indeed to be still worried about what people will or won't do since you opened a thread on Amano's thread.

3 weeks ago
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I wrote everything I wanted in the Aman thread. The Aman discussion thread doesn't bother me.

3 weeks ago
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Bro, telling someone to kill themselves is not cool, specially on the internet where a lot of context tends to be missing and you never know the consequences of a throwaway comment, you might accidentally push someone over the edge and into actually ending themselves.
There's always the option to use "go fuck yourself" if you're that pissed off which is roughly about as hurtful without the implied call to committing suicide. Don't act like the correct position to have is to be completely emotionally detached, words can have a tangible effect on people, have some empathy.

Also, what do you mean by private conversation? This is a forum, any conversation on a forum is public by default.

3 weeks ago
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These are just words. By inviting a person to fuck himself, you, in theory, can also bring him to the extreme point and he can also harm himself.
I just fear that over time we will slide into a society that will be afraid of everything in the world, since everything can be offensive or carry negative emotions for someone in one emotional state or another. At this rate, we will simply start communicating only with emojis that have been pre-censored.
I believe that if I respond to your message, then our conversation becomes private. It may be overheard or spied on, but that is on the conscience of other people.

3 weeks ago*
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I think that there's a separation that has to be made here. I actually agree with you that we need the ability to have open discussions about touchy or potentially hurtful subjects, but there's a massive difference between discussing something and an actual fight between two people where one of them purposefully uses language in an openly hostile manner, it's possible to disagree without outright attacking, you can even be crass without resorting to direct insults or denigration.
And I'll admit that I might not be expressing my point clearly with what I said about telling someone to go fuck themselves. It's not that I necessarily see it as something acceptable but more that I wanted to point out that even if one wants to straight up insult someone there's alternatives to telling them to put an end to their life. It's a roundabout way to say that I don't see that user's action as defensible even in the context of respecting freedom of expression, because most people agree that threats or calls for suicide are outside of what's acceptable behavior.

And I don't agree with the concept that a conversation on a forum can be or should be treated as private if it's being held on that forum. The whole idea behind forums is that they are open so anyone can join in a conversation because the invitation to do so is implicit in the nature itself of the forum, forums were birthed as public/semi-public spaces.

3 weeks ago
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I personally don’t see the difference between how much you insult a person in an argument. I believe that either we grow eggs (and girls too) and learn to filter messages while maintaining our inner peace.
Or we live in a sterile society without insults as such, since even the weakest insult can become the very straw that breaks the camel’s hump.

You know, people here lately cannot decide on the question of what a woman is. So you can continue to assume that any communication on an anonymous forum is public, and I will continue to assume that if I respond specifically to you, then I am having a specific personal conversation with you, and not with the entire forum.
I think we can stop at these positions.

3 weeks ago
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"what a woman is" as in the transphobe dog-whistle? Oof.
I'm starting to have serious doubts about this conversation ever reaching a place that'll satisfy the both of us, so let's just do what you said and leave this here.

3 weeks ago
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I have never seen a trance live in my life, and in the cultural environment of my country this issue has long been resolved and our society is simply shocked that such a discussion is possible in principle. Therefore, I cited this quote not because I feel hostility towards someone, I have no desire to offend anyone, it’s just that in my culture there is only one answer to this question.
And it seemed to me that in this way I could explain that my position on personal communication on the forum has the right to exist, no more and no less.

I completely agree with you that our positions are firm and they are different.
While communicating with you, I never wanted to convince you. Communicating with you, I rather tested the strength of my moral guidelines.

Thanks for the discussion. Of course, it was not about Nietzsche, but it was also fascinating!

All the best and good luck for the whole year!

3 weeks ago
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in the cultural environment of my country this issue has long been resolved

Ah yes. The country of free speech.

3 weeks ago
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There is not a single article of law that would interfere with our communication on this topic. We just don’t understand why we should start this conversation at all.
So you don't have to worry about our freedom of speech.
P.S. Intruding into someone else's conversation is at least uncivilized in my cultural environment.

3 weeks ago
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P.S. Intruding into someone else's conversation is at least uncivilized in my cultural environment.

Not applicable for a forum. RL example:
If you and Axelflox talked (even publicly in the streets) and someone of us would approach you and join the conversation without being invited (whether by words or gestures), that would be intruding. Even worse if we interrupted you.
But imagine a panel discussion, a support group or a workshop. Haven't you had any open discussions in school (teacher only intervening if necessary)?
Online forums are less complicated, because they are asynchronous. Noone can interrupt you, users can take time to reply (and thus avoid emotional and heated answers) and moderation has more time to react. I can still quote you (16 hours later) and talk about an interesting part of your discussion. Now try that with a spoken discussion.. either you weren't there, so you wouldn't even know or you were there and the other person might seriously question why you come up with an old topic again.. like "can't let go?".
Fluffster could have added that posting at the very end of the thread, but due to the quote it fits right there in the thread structure.

3 weeks ago
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Allow me to intrude.

Today I learned that in Russian, even a quote is a woman.

Yesterday I learned that native Japanese speakers have difficulty identifying syllables in spoken language because they understand their language as being based on morae, a word with which I was unfamiliar.

Q: How are these related?
A: You may not be Russian, but their language colors your understanding of gender. Every person, place or thing must be immutably male or female within that frame of reference, and it becomes difficult to think about "female" (and by extension "woman") as something mutable or nuanced.

And before you begin to clarify that something is impossible and not worthy of discussion, remember that you used the words of a philosopher as a starting point.

3 weeks ago
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I just fear that over time we will slide into a society that will be afraid of everything in the world, since everything can be offensive or carry negative emotions for someone in one emotional state or another

Weird, I've not once in my life been afraid of telling my opinion. Maybe because it also never occurred to me to tell someone to kill themselves.

Your train of thought becomes even more ironic considering your later statements below.

in the cultural environment of my country this issue has long been resolved and our society is simply shocked that such a discussion is possible in principle.[...], it’s just that in my culture there is only one answer to this question.

So you express concern about the development of our society, and you wonder if people will be too afraid to speak their minds... but you have absolutely no concerns about " in my culture there is only one answer to this question".

Hilarious.

3 weeks ago
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In my culture, dialogue on this issue is not prohibited, and if someone is interested, they can discuss this issue with anyone.
It’s just that we have a clear definition in society that the vast majority of people see no point in challenging.

Can you clarify what exactly you find hilarious?

3 weeks ago
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Nice try but you can't fool anyone. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_anti-LGBT_law
If you feel like answering "It's only about minors" just hold your breath and don't waste either your or my time.

3 weeks ago
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I don’t want to upset you, my limited friend, but Russian is spoken not only in Russia.
Specifically, in my case, the laws of the Russian Federation do not apply to the place in which I live.

3 weeks ago
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Well the mindset doesn't differ much if your country also has "only one answer" to that topic.
And you don't really have to pretend that these topics are freely debated after you also already expressed "our society is simply shocked that such a discussion is possible in principle".

Do I have to explain how your own words contradict your claims?

3 weeks ago
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Well, thank you, of course. It’s not arrogant to judge someone else’s culture when you don’t really know what culture we’re talking about. And most importantly it is so tolerant....

You won't believe it, but when you hear that someone somewhere is seriously saying 2+2 is not 4. And they argue seriously and for a long time, it can cause a shock among people who have come to a consensus and are sure that 2+2=4.

3 weeks ago
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Heh, but you thought that it would make sense to judge a "culture" for reacting to "go and kill yourself" with timeouts on a community site.
But I guess coming to a consensus is only acceptable on specific matters in specific cultures. Otherwise, it's time to quote Nietzsche.

3 weeks ago
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Don't deceive yourself and the people around you.
I did not condemn culture in that discussion thread. I thought that there was no point in reacting to an argument between two fools at all. And he expressed the opinion that I would vote for the item not to restrict the user in everything, if there was such an item.
And you, as a religious fanatic, are trying to condemn and anathematize all other opinions and thoughts, distorting the original message.

3 weeks ago
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It must be very convenient how you manage to forget your very own statements which already contradict your latest reply. "Don't deceive yourself" is quite ironic in that context, considering that this is pretty much all have you been doing here.

The very first quote of you that I delivered, is you judging a society/culture. Based on your imaginary result of people getting timeouts for writing stuff such as "go and kill yourself".

All I did was to highlight your hypocrisy and blindness. You seriously suggest that your culture is oh-so free and open to debate while also expressing the exact opposite circumstances.

Like you consider it a "consensus" when a majority in your culture simply declares that there is "only one answer" to a topic and that they are "simply shocked that such a discussion is possible in principle" and see "no point in challenging it".
Yeah, it's totally not questionable at all if an unaffected majority decides which topics are open to debate and how many answers there are. The affected minority must be so thankful.

On the other hand you are deeply concerned if there is a thread elaborating the appropriate length of suspensions. Because obviously, freedom of speech and society in general are in danger if you can't freely suggest that people should kill themselves.
And what if there would be a consensus on that matter? Somehow doesn't matter to you in that case.

And last but not least: "Distorting the original message" is something you can only blame yourself for, as it was you who wrote all the quoted bs. Don't expect a free pass.

This was the last time I replied to you. It's too predictable that you'll just reply something else that is already contradicted by a previous statement of yours. I frankly don't see the point in continuing this.

3 weeks ago
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1) The very first quote of you that I delivered, is you judging a society/culture. Based on your imaginary result of people getting timeouts for writing stuff such as "go and kill yourself".
Please provide the exact quote in which I claim this.
2) All I did was to highlight your hypocrisy and blindness. You seriously suggest that your culture is oh-so free and open to debate while also expressing the exact opposite circumstances.
Please provide the exact quote in which I claim this.
3) Like you consider it a "consensus" when a majority in your culture simply declares that there is "only one answer" to a topic and that they are "simply shocked that such a discussion is possible in principle" and see "no point in challenging it".
If you don't believe me, you can double-check the meaning of the word consensus in the dictionary.
4) Yeah, it's totally not questionable at all if an unaffected majority decides which topics are open to debate and how many answers there are. The affected minority must be so thankful.
For the most part, we have all abandoned the practice of harems in human culture and agreed that we cannot have sex with children before adulthood.
Moreover, I don’t remember any vivid disputes and wars over the introduction of these norms into culture.
If there is truth behind the minority, then sooner or later society will change under its pressure. And if there is no truth behind these words, then there is no truth behind these words, then there is no point in listening to them.
5) On the other hand you are deeply concerned if there is a thread elaborating the appropriate length of suspensions.
I never said that. Please provide the exact quote in which I claim this.
6) And what if there would be a consensus on that matter? Somehow doesn't matter to you in that case.
If the norm of social behavior changes and the majority reaches a consensus that you cannot tolerate, then you have little choice:

  • Move
  • Accept these changes.
  • Find like-minded people, weapons and organize a bloody revolution in the process of which you will return the norms that are pleasant to you, but at the same time you will become a dictator.
    7) This was the last time I replied to you. It's too predictable that you'll just reply something else that is already contradicted by a previous statement of yours. I frankly don't see the point in continuing this.
    It is your right. In general, you could not write strange messages that are not related to the stated topic of discussion. But I hope that it was not in vain for you and that you still learned a certain amount of other information.
    Best wishes!
3 weeks ago
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It wasn't a private conversation. It was a public argument on the forum here in this community
The question was not about punishment but about how we, as a community, can deal in the best possible way with the violence of words against people of this community.
Amano wasn't trying to change anyone. He was just asking if we felt the very short suspension was an adequate.

3 weeks ago
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Seriously...
Are we in parliament and deciding the fate of the country, or are we just writing nonsense on an anonymous website?
If you're so desperate for censorship, then go on Facebook to a safe echo chamber where everyone eats rainbows and poops rainbows.
What specifically worries me is that in the survey there was not even an option not to ban a person for stupid things said out of emotion.

3 weeks ago
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The fact is people kill themselves for real over this.

Many people get bullied and get overhwelmed by how harsh the internet can be.

You think it's not serious enough. Try to be in the shoes of a people seeing hostity everywhere and seeing no solutions.

I assure you this kind of people exists. So for sure, people say awul things for the 'fun of it', or because they don't think about the consequences.

But some people can die because of that.

3 weeks ago
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If a person is so stupid and weak that because of a text from a fool on the Internet he is ready to kill himself, then this is probably destined by fate... Or it is the will of God.
I personally am not ready to sacrifice my freedom and change my life principles for the sake of emotionally unstable people whom I don’t even know.
I want and will live only for myself, my loved ones and my friends.
If I personally encounter such a person and he asks me to behave differently while he is around, I will immediately indicate that now I will restrain myself, but in the future it is better for him to avoid communicating with me.
And in general, every day somewhere on the planet a person drowns. Will we ban all humanity from swimming?

3 weeks ago
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You first call for people humanity, and then you show none.

That says long.

3 weeks ago
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I don't remember appealing to humanity. Even in my personal example from the message, I described a situation in which I denied humanity to people with addictions and first of all began to defend my interests and the interests of my loved ones and friends.
If it’s not difficult, please indicate where exactly this whine was so that I can edit it. Perhaps due to the difficulties of translation, I somehow expressed my thought incorrectly.

3 weeks ago
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It's okay.

You made your point.

I made mine.

3 weeks ago
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If a person is so stupid and weak that because of a text from a fool on the Internet he is ready to kill himself, then this is probably destined by fate... Or it is the will of God.

Wow. That explains so much right there.

3 weeks ago
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I made no secret that I rather agree with this quote. It's surprising that this has only now become clear.

3 weeks ago
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And in general, every day somewhere on the planet a person drowns. Will we ban all humanity from swimming?

There's a difference between banning swimming and banning people from throwing others into the water. Likewise, there's a difference between freedom of speech and telling people to go kill themselves. If you're honestly not ready to associate with people who ask that others avoid needless cruelty, you'll eventually find yourself heavily isolated. Remember that humanity managed to make it this far because of teamwork--because they protected "stupid and weak" members who helped out in other ways--and to say that these people deserve to die is worse than stupid; it's counterproductive and evil.

I may not be able to deprogram you from the propaganda you've been manipulated by, but I at least ask that you recognize most of the world doesn't adhere to your beliefs and they prosper as a result. Most people are kind, and needless death is bad. If anyone tries to convince you to go one step further than where you're at right now and actively kill others, remember that's a bad thing and don't do it.

And if that's all still too much, well...no one is forcing you to stay here.

3 weeks ago
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  • In the case you are looking at, no one physically threw anyone into the water. He was asked to go for a swim.
    In the context of Nietzsche’s quote, the person sitting on the shore needs to be pushed into this water.

  • Is isolation on the Internet possible? I think no. Changing your social circle, yes.

  • "Remember that humanity managed to make it this far because of teamwork--because they protected "stupid and weak" members" - A very controversial and dubious statement, especially if you have studied the history of mankind.

  • "and to say that these people deserve to die is worse than stupid" - I did not say that. I assumed that perhaps this was fate and that this was God’s will. Children dying of cancer in a hospice do not deserve to die, but until a cure is found, they will die, regardless of our opinions.

  • "but I at least ask that you recognize most of the world doesn't adhere to your beliefs and they prosper as a result" - I don't know what people's opinions are. This was interesting to me and I suggested discussing a specific quote. And judging by the results of the survey and the popularity of the banana, people are either afraid to talk about difficult topics, or they absolutely don’t care about each other.

-"If anyone tries to convince you to go one step further than where you're at right now and actively kill others, remember that's a bad thing and don't do it." - Unfortunately, life is much more complicated and you don’t always have the right to choose. But don't worry. I don’t have such a dilemma yet.

It was very nice to read such a sincere and humanistic message and see that there were so many experiences. And to be honest, I have some sympathy for you.
But specifically in this topic of conversation. I didn’t want to fight for anyone’s specific souls.

I'm just interested to see how society feels about this quote.
Best wishes!

3 weeks ago
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Okay, you wanna talk about the Nietzsche quote? I think you're willfully misinterpreting it, skewing it and twisting its words around to apply to things it was never meant to, and that's the real reason no one was giving you a direct answer; that's the real reason everyone kept focusing on the "wrong" thing.

The entire point of taking down an unstable structure ahead of time is to avoid additional damage it would cause by collapsing on its own; it would involve evacuating the area and making sure it doesn't damage any stable structures on the way down (as opposed to pushing it wherever). Most importantly, this is something that can be come back from: a new, stable structure can be built on its foundation in its place, maybe even reusing some of the materials from the previous structure that are still sound. An actual, proper application of the analogy would be the health department shutting down an unsanitary restaurant before more people get sick, even though it would make the owner sad. This is because the restaurant can still be cleaned up and reopened later, after it meets all the regulations; it's something that can be come back from.

The quote very much does not refer to telling suicidal people (or anyone, for that matter) to kill themselves, nor does it refer to actively killing children just because they have cancer; by the Nietzsche analogy, that would be more like bombing an active hotel lobby and pretending they were fated to die anyway because one of the floorboards was a bit creaky. Not only is death something that can't be come back from, you simply can never know for certain what anyone's fate is: suicidal people CAN be helped and later become not suicidal, as you mentioned about what happened to yourself; cancer may not have cures, but it has treatments and can go into remission, allowing the children to grow up into adults and life long, fulfilling lives. The structure isn't falling and doesn't need to be pushed; it's just showing signs of wear and could use some maintenance so it doesn't reach that point.

3 weeks ago
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I'm sorry but we are in a community and there should be consequences for saying dangerous things. It has nothing to do with censorship.
"Emotion" is not an excuse for telling someone to kill themselves.
We are behind a computer, typing things, not screaming stupidities at a football game.
There is time to read what you just typed and think, and fix things.

Telling someone to kill themselves is not free expression because it's not expressing anything. Just rage and hatred at the possible expense of another human being.

Now if that was your real problem and not just "live and let live", you should go and change your post
Why you didn't reply to Amano's thread instead of creating another post is beyond me.

3 weeks ago
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Wow... Consequences for dangerous words... At this rate, we will reach the point where on anonymous forums it will be necessary to punish thought crimes in the real world.
When we say emotionally, “Go fuck yourself,” we understand that we are offering to do the impossible. I believe that this is approximately the same case.

No, my question stated in the title really interests me. You and I are having a conversation about insults solely because you personally decided to focus on this.

Due to the fact that you put emphasis on this, I don’t see the point in changing anything in the title.

3 weeks ago
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that's a beautiful question and we could discuss it for days... but do remember you're asking it in a public forum where rules prohibit such expressions.

tip: always do think about Mod's work, first, and you'll enjoy this Community to the fullest!

3 weeks ago
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I gave an example of that discussion thread for the contest of developing my thoughts.
First of all, I am interested in the attitude of the Form members to the quote. Everything else is secondary.

3 weeks ago
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Everything else is secondary

wrong. so very much! 🙃

3 weeks ago
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I'm glad you were able to find pleasure in something secondary.
In general, it is useful to find pleasure in small things, and if you are specifically interested in continuing the discussion of this very thing, then I don’t dare bother you.
From now on I will only respond to messages related to the quote.

3 weeks ago
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At this rate, we will reach the point where on anonymous forums it will be necessary to punish thought crimes in the real world.

Those are two very different things. What you think can't make someone kill themselves.
I have friends who have tried to kill themselves after being bullied. You might think "words" don't matter but they do.

I very much agree that this conversation is a waste of time though. Have a nice life.

3 weeks ago
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Oh my gosh, who didn’t have suicidal thoughts in their youth. I had them too. And perhaps it was under their influence that I decided that no matter what I would fight for my life.
But you're right, it's better to end this conversation. Continue to protect the interests of people unknown to you and try to save absolutely everyone in the world. I am sure that in the end you will be satisfied with the result of your life.

3 weeks ago
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that's a very wrong attitude. whitelist removed, added to blacklist.

3 weeks ago
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Oh my God, how can I continue to live with this sin in my soul!!!!
I honestly thought that you were capable of constructive dialogue, but in fact you are just a populist without an opinion. Don’t forget to change your avatar to say that you urgently need to save Ukraine/Palestine/Israel or whatever is fashionable in your information environment. By following fashionable opinions, you will certainly become a better person.

But I agree with you on 1. It is better for us to stop communicating and isolate ourselves from each other. I don't want to catch the monkey pox. They say that it is transmitted through chat messages)))

3 weeks ago*
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"Normal" children don't ever have those feelings, nor grownups for that fact, and people that want to commit suicide do that because of (hurtful) situations they want to get out of, they want the hurting to stop and feel like they can't, that's why people commit suicide.

But looking at yout other reactions, i can see the level of conversation and i am out of it further.

3 weeks ago
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Strange. In psychology classes they taught that suicidal thoughts are absolutely normal in adolescence and that everyone experiences them one way or another. But apparently psychology is taught differently in different countries.

3 weeks ago
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Yes but what you learn as a child or grownup, isn't always the truth (how we are still being manipulated so enmass till this very day) or relevant, like how here they want to enforce the youngest of children with sex education, when my generation discovered things on their own, and i was like 14 when i was "discovering" things, and that's just totally fine the way it was.

Someone that has it good, a house, enough money, a beautiful wife and children an no worries in the world or you got a (somewhat) happy childhood? Your brain doesn't go, oh lets just end this all, our brain isn't programmed like that because it stems from being too unhappy.
And many "normal" people can handle hardships just fine, it's those that got something in their brain that make them not being able to handle those hardships properly, or when you got too many hardships.
In Russia it's a whole different way of growing up, and living, i can imagine with that on average many more there aren't happy by definition.

I didn't had a happy nor unhappy childhood but never once in my life i had those feelings, up until the last 15 years i learned what they were.

We don't even have such classes here in regular schools (unless you talk about 18+ and you specifically chosen a career to become a psychologist), and i think many countries don't.

3 weeks ago*
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  • How does your lack of awareness of the issue in your childhood affect my argument that according to psychiatry this is an absolutely normal phenomenon?
  • I don’t know how children grow up in Russia since I didn’t grow up there, and I don’t want to judge what I don’t know.
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I assumed you were russian with the bad translation and you were raised there, my bad.

But for the rest, i am staying out of it, if you want to continue listening to your own opinions and falter anyone for having another one, go ahead.

But It's NOT normal to generalize and all children to have these feelings...

3 weeks ago
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I did not challenge the knowledge I received in educational institutions. Is it normal for science to generalize certain phenomena? I think yes. Are there exceptions? Certainly!

Should we continue arguing on this topic? I bet it's not.
Best wishes!
P.S. It was always interesting to listen to the music you chose. Everything is something new and unknown for me.

3 weeks ago
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Thank you for the last sentence.

3 weeks ago
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by asking that question, Amano shows that he's never been a mod. or not a mod on this website. me neither, but really wouldn't waste Support's precious time on those useless and tedious questions.

🐽

3 weeks ago
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I was a mod on other sites and I don't think it's useless to ask a community what they think of the current level of moderation but I agree it's not going to change anything.

3 weeks ago
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It depends on the context. Most of the time, those comments are just stupid emotional comments and they regret it later on. If I was moderating this site, I wouldn't give too much importance to such a thing, as long as it is a singular occurrence.

However, if that person keeps being annoying consistently, there should be some kind of punishment, but not an instant ban, unless they don't learn their lesson after repeated temporal suspensions. There are rules for a reason, and it is for things to remain civil. Leave any site without any rules or with way too liberal ones and see how it ends up (4chan comes to mind.) Of course, if you just want to go to some largely unmoderated forum with barely any rules, you can go to 4chan or something like that.

Law and order exists for a reason, and even the government. People are unable of acting adequately if there are no limits to what they are allowed to do. They need someone to tell them what to do. Even morals exist for this reason, for creating order. It's not out of "niceness." The existence of morals is in the government's favor because, without them, laws would be the only real limit, and see for yourself just how many people don't care or don't realize at all the consequences of their actions already, even with such restrictions (criminals.)

The only reason why modern morality is so different from the medieval one is because the current state of the world doesn't favor it. A lot of things changed, with the globalization, the Internet, the more advanced military techonology, and so on. There's not as much of a need for soldiers because modern weapons and war vehicles largely decrease the need for it. In the medieval ages, human personnel was everything. That's one of the reasons why people had to grow being more desensitized and having a more warmongering mentality.

Also, war just isn't as frequent as in those times, and there are more restrictions in place. Now it isn't that easy to go around conquering and annexing everything. Way too much changed, so of course the government can no longer enforce the same kind of values and expect them to work in the modern world. That doesn't mean they are being nice. They are not. The government is no one's friend.

3 weeks ago
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I was surprised that they did not even allow the thought that they could pass by and not interfere in the private conversation of two fools.

Because it's both a fucking stupid and completely immoral thing to say to someone. And when it's posted on a public forum it's hardly a private conversation. Why do you think rules exist?

3 weeks ago
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we shouldn't, i think, be so much hard with OP. while he might be not new on the Internet, has been with us little time to get the full picture... ?

really (kind of) asking it, honestly talking.

3 weeks ago
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Doubtful but ok.
Will you comment on your attitude to Nietzsche’s quote, or do you just want to discuss my motivation for opening a discussion thread?

3 weeks ago
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Who cares about a stupid quote from a guy who died centuries ago?

3 weeks ago
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People who understand the world from all sides do not limit themselves in knowledge and also study the thoughts and experiences of their predecessors.

But you have the right to be special and reinvent the wheel.

3 weeks ago
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IDK about that. I hear people talking all the time about "it was good enough for me, it should be good enough for you". It's easy to believe that people want to keep moving forward, but in reality, a lot of people prefer nothing changing at all. They revel in it even.

3 weeks ago
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io ti amo

3 weeks ago*
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Ti amo anch'io

3 weeks ago
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non essere così spudorato 🙈

3 weeks ago
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I can't help it. Cheeky is my default position ;)

3 weeks ago
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Che tenerezza!

3 weeks ago
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I'm aaaaall about love. How's that for society going to hell? ;)

3 weeks ago
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Telling someone to kill themselves is a direct, harmful act that can have immediate and severe consequences. It's not an abstract philosophical debate but a clear-cut issue of morality and human decency.

I honestly couldn't care less what Nietzsche had to say about the matter.

3 weeks ago
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Okay zoomer

3 weeks ago
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So from that quote, "that which is falling should also be pushed!” means that if someone is suicidal, you should encourage them to end it? If that's what it means, then I can't say I would encourage someone that is "falling" considering it, nor would I give them that final "push!"

In some circumstances, especially palliative care, while most don't directly push (over the edge) they do often push just enough to make it comfortable, where the inevitable result is falling. In other instances, I can see how jumping from a burning building might be a better option than burning to death, both figuratively and literally.

My own view is that people should decide for themselves. If someone would fall, just from being told to, then they have bigger concerns. They would do better to have not gotten involved in that kind of discussion in the first place, as well as worked on an alternate solution. Of course if someone has considered all options and has come to a decision, I would neither push, nor prevent them from falling.

As for the ban etc. People like to pile on in righteous anger. Blaming other people. Then enjoy their suffering. I also commented in that thread, and still think it should be handled on a case by case basis. I have also seen people troll and bait in groups on other forums where they skirt the rules, but bait their target into breaking them, then report them, and downvote etc.

Anyway, this is just a place to give away games. Most of the time that's all that happens. I'm not overly interested in getting involved in drama, politics, or culture wars. Most people have already made up their minds, and are not interested in changing them.

3 weeks ago
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Thank you for existing.
I’ve already begun to worry that people don’t even notice the purpose of the conversation and only talk about what interests them.

I don't agree with you on everything, but I'm interested in reading your thoughts.
Best wishes!

3 weeks ago
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If you wanted people's opinion on the quote, then maybe you shouldn't have added the first paragraph and even change the thread title to something like: "Opinions on Friedrich Nietzsche quote". Instead of derailing your own thread by posting something you don't want people to talk about.

Edit: Focusing on your first paragraph of the thread, at what point does a discussion in a public website on a public thread becomes a private conversation?

3 weeks ago*
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I thought it was important to indicate the reason for opening this discussion thread. The fact that the motive is more important to people than the topic itself certainly amuses me, but this is not a problem. Everyone can show their emotional side and not read the message to the end.
It becomes private the moment you address me directly and I respond directly to you.

3 weeks ago
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I do, technically, agree that everything wrong needs to be corrected (not necessarily punished). However, where I completely disagree with the Nietch is that I am not going to be the one to do the correcting.

3 weeks ago
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I was surprised that they did not even allow the thought that they could pass by and not interfere in the private conversation of two fools.

If it was private sure, I could see that.

But it's not. And more so it's part of this community.

I believe that when someone tells you how they are, you listen.

3 weeks ago
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That's like saying that which is cracked should be smashed.
That which is smashed, should be ground into dust...

Seems rather hateful, and lazy at the same time.

I wouldnt say to always step into the way of a falling object, as sometimes they need to fall to learn their lesson. But if your life experience tells you the object in question will never recover from it's fall, and you have the power to do so, it's your 'noblesse oblige' to attempt to lessen the fall. Possibly even going as far to share wisdom for the object to grow

The only other option is to sacrifice that which falls. But i see no value in pushing it to do so faster.

3 weeks ago
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An interesting interpretation, but it seems you went too deep into the process of destruction. rather, those that are cracked need to stop using them and create/find something that is not cracked.
It seems to me that in the game universes, Nietzsche’s principle is indirectly reflected in the “Dark Souls” universe, when at the end of the games we are offered to extend the Age of Fire or allow the Age of Darkness to begin.

3 weeks ago
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Cracking is what happens to us when experiencing trauma. We then heal and close the wound, leaving behind a scar.
The collection of these scars and how we overcome them is what makes us individuals.
These experiences either help your grow as a person, or permanently shatter and break you.
Thus i see no utility in making it worse in most cases.

Fighting for the next age of fire, and keeping at bay an age of darkness at all costs is the eternal struggle between the light and dark, good and evil, knowledge and lack of knowledge, that religions speak of.

I suppose there could be an argument that man needs to grow internally(philosophy and community), before he grows externally(science and tech), in order to stay in balance and avoid destroying ourselves. So there can be some utility in allowing a controlled age of darkness.

Those in power utilize this fact to keep us in weakened and easier to control. Which is why they use latin terms such as "Ordo Ab Chao" which is used by the Free-Masons. I'd imagine other controlling groups around the world also have similar motto's.

3 weeks ago
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1) Thus i see no utility in making it worse in most cases.
If you have a crack and have not yet recovered, then you need to behave carefully and not get into situations in which your crack can be renewed. Your recovery is primarily your responsibility.
2) Fighting for the next age of fire, and keeping at bay an age of darkness at all costs is the eternal struggle between the light and dark, good and evil, knowledge and lack of knowledge, that religions speak of.
If my memory serves me right, then the era of darkness does not bring evil or degradation. The new era brings changes that Gwyn feared. Therefore, I cannot consider the attempt to extend the era of fire as something good. This is an attempt to keep the old world on the edge of the abyss
3) So there can be some utility in allowing a controlled age of darkness.
Perhaps, but Gwyn and his heirs did not prepare society for the new world. There is not a single hint of this preparation in Dark Souls 3.
4) Which is why they use latin terms such as "Ordo Ab Chao" which is used by the Free-Masons
I think that people in power are guided by the principle of “Divide et impera”, which is attributed to Niccolò Machiavelli.

3 weeks ago
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Deleted

This comment was deleted 3 weeks ago.

3 weeks ago*
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  1. Toxic behaviours shouldn't be allowed. If you don't care about it, it's your opinion and you're free to act consequently. Most of us here want a healthy and positive discussion where people exchange their points of view. Go to FGF and read their statement about toxic behaviour. Also see about "Paradox of tolerance".
    1 bis. You can have toxic behaviour without insulting or telling people to go fuck themselves. So it's not about semantics or wording. Microviolences can be so damaging (and no, it's not a fad word, it's a reality).

  2. Toxic behaviour shouldn't be allowed because more people than you think (I made that affirmation judging what you've said) don't have the mental tools to deal with things like "go fuck yourself" or even "your argument is stupid" and indeed they can be driven to negative feelings. Their life hasn't been easy or normal or whatever you call it. Some (I know of) simply grew up without learning or having someone to teach themselves these tools. Others (I know of) might have had the tools if life/people wouldn't have destroyed their lifes with bulling, disfunctional families, and/or whatever, and leave them with little but weakness, no self-esteem, low to no tolerance to personal attacks, emotional inestability and thin skin, paranoid attitude, and way more. Plus, getting out of there is NOT easy. Psichologists or therapists (I know of) often find people who can only help partially because whatever; cases can be so different, we're not programmed in the same way nor we keep the same state over our life. So your affirmation that people should grow "balls" (I guess that's what you meant) is really beffudling and not well thought before written, as if all people had the means to do all you think they should do - they don't. Plus, saying that in the Men's Health Month is borderline insensitive. It's the attitude (I know of) from people who tell you "if you're depressed it's because you want" with zero empathy. But then when they are in trouble (someone close passing out, a break-up, losing an important job, whatever) they feel justified and don't you dare to tell them what they threw over you when you needed support. In your words I read "if this affects you, it's your fault" with zero empathy. And specially bad is that you only see two choices. And really ludicrous that you think that a society without insulting would be "sterile".

  3. Toxic behaviour shouldn't be allowed on the premise of personal opinions on a public forum. Just because I answer to your comment doesn't mean it's private. We can have an exchange of comments and a conversation between the two, but it's not private nor anonymous; anyone, even not members of SG, can read it. But many people twist the situation to their advantage; to push their opinion, to justify their (obviously obvious) errors, or to try to demostrate that they have the right to do so. And you seem to be on their side. I don't know if you've done so in this thread, but I think you'd be on the side to delete all those rules who prevent our right to treat the others as we want, specially from the safe side of the Internet: distance. One extreme situation I witnessed was someone in a public forum defending his right (I remember it was a he) to say whatever he wanted because the entrance and usage of the forum was free and thus they couldn't enforce their rules on him. If he had paid to enter and use the forum, he would follow the rules. What I always thought of that situation was that if he ever paid to enter a service with forum, he'd say he paid to use the service, not to follow absurd rules. My opinion is that your argument(s) about privacy can't apply here at all, to the point that I wonder why you decided to mention that. It's in the rules. No insults, no toxic behaviour. Don't like the rules? Go away or discuss about them in a mature matter, don't reduce them to one single situation. (I've not read all the thread, but this seems to go well with your statements before I got tired of them.)

  4. That quote is slightly out of context, and still open to interpretation. Sidenote: the whole part deal both with the What, the material, and with people later. Strange that you chose the first sentence which, with the following ones, deal with the material in an interesting but somewhat aged perspective, at least to me; similar quotes to "we should rebuild over the ruins" have been uttered since classic Greece? Before, in ancient China? Who knows. Later, about people (third line deals with both material in the first sentence and with people in the second, so I'm skipping it as it actually doesn't say anything about people) "A prelude am I to better players, O my brothers" (my interpretation) says that the weak should leave place to new, stronger people. This is somewhat recurrent in Nietzsche's work, which I always considered insensitive in many aspects of life. Now re-read point 2 in this comment with today's points of view. Should we allow the stronger to abuse of their strength and bully the weak? Should we push the weak aside, or more towards Nietzsche's attitude, down the cliff? Would you like to be treated like that if something put your life upside down and needed help, wanted that there were rules or people who prevent your situation, or could help you? Nietzsche's approach is that you should be pushed, and it has nothing to do with grow balls. Your partner dies and your life crumbles. Some can go through it. Some can't. And no one is prepared and ready to overcome all punches that life can throw at you.

  5. This thread title is absurd. It seems it's going to talk about something important from a wide perspective. And then you go about something relatively small compared to the title, and don't give any meaningful reflection, with farfetched arguments that most people wouldn't agree, often insisting in "facts" without really giving any argument, good or bad. "This is like this; if you don't agree, put the arguments yourself." What a wonderful discussion about the will of humankind (sarcasm and Internet don't go well, but I think you get it).

  6. I'm going to hide this thread and I'll not read any answer to my comment. Why? Because I choose to, reasons are private. I've put my opinion and I could have written more, but I've already wasted enough energy with these shenanigans. I couldn't stop myself, reasons are private, and it's my fault.

3 weeks ago
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  1. Judging by the survey results, the majority do not care about toxicity at all. Otherwise the banana would not have won the poll.
    • Yes, you are right, there may be people among us who have not yet learned to cope with problematic behavior. But if you constantly protect them and prevent them from getting into problematic situations, then these tools will not appear. You can't teach a person to swim without ever letting him near the water. I am not suggesting throwing children into the sea like in Sparta. And if organized mass bullying of such a person begins, then it must be stopped. But in a situation where two fools are arguing, you don’t have to interfere.
    • No matter how masculine and toxic it may sound, until you grow balls (even female ones) and learn to cope with such situations on your own, you will not be able to live in peace.
    • Everyone without exception faces problems (loss of loved ones, loved ones and friends). And yes, I have absolutely no sympathy for people who, instead of dusting themselves off and moving on to build a future, live in the past. It doesn't matter how wonderful the past was. The past cannot be returned.
    • It needs more details and context to appear.
      3.-The fact that I am responding to your specific comment is a manifestation of my personal appeal to you, and not to the forum in particular. Anonymity is ensured by the fact that your nickname does not include your identification data.
    • There is a difference between a conversation between two fools, bullying and trolling. I will never support bullying or feed a troll.
    • My arguments regarding that situation are built not on the basis of existing forum rules, but on the basis of a question asked with the context provided. The question did not ask to evaluate the situation from the point of view of the forum rules.
    • Sometimes it’s more humane to push the weak off a cliff. An example of this is the euthanasia of terminally ill people.
    • Nietzsche’s approach, it seems to me, is that if you have the will to live, then even if they try to push you over, you will pull through and become stronger. And if you don’t have the will to live, then there’s no need to waste energy on you.
      If your partner has died and you, despite the efforts of your loved ones, do not want to continue your life, then there is no point in wasting your time on you. You are already hollow. More than one life has been ruined by the problem of codependency.
  2. Totally agree with you. I was hoping that in this thread we could discuss the quote and our attitude towards it. But instead, everything has descended into a festival of narcissism in which people discuss anything instead of a quote.
    6.It doesn’t matter whether you hide your head in the sand from the answers. Sooner or later they will find you.
3 weeks ago
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i voted banana because i just understand nothing
probably not the only one

3 weeks ago
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  1. The survey is about a quote, not about toxicity. A quote that can be interpreted in many ways. A quote without precise context.

The answer options are:

leaning towards yes
absolutely no
i don't know
banana

where are these options???
absolutely yes
leaning towards no
sometimes yes sometimes no depending on context
???

If you want a direct answer, ask a direct question.

"Should it be allowed to tell someone on the forum to kill themselves?"
Yes
No
Maybe
Banana

I guarantee you if you structured your poll properly like this the majority of answers here would be "No" and not Banana.

"but i'm asking about the quote!"
Then don't say the poll results mean we don't care about toxicity. That's wrong. The question and answer options are structured horribly.

You can't just take one sentence and apply it to everything. It doesn't work like that.
And again, if you want to say it's not about everything, then you should've asked the question it relates to, instead of asking what we think about the quote. Stop hiding behind someone's words - be direct.

3 weeks ago
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What is the problem? Make your own survey with blackjack and hookers in which the questions will not be asked badly.
I believe that they are set perfectly, although I cannot change or supplement them even if I want.

You can't just take one sentence and apply it to everything. It doesn't work like that.
Maybe you can’t do this, but I can. Someday, when you become older and more confident in yourself, you will also be able to do this.

3 weeks ago*
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I don't think they wanted to forbid you doing a poll like that, but your conclusion "Judging by the survey results, the majority do not care about toxicity at all. Otherwise the banana would not have won the poll." is crooked, because the poll isn't about toxicity, but the quote, and doesn't offer enough variations.
"Potato" like poll options are pretty famous on SG and if I'm allowed to estimate: a lot of banana voters imho would have chosen the indifferent option, if banana was missing.

Not sorry for intruding! :p

3 weeks ago
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The question in the discussion thread is related to the quote and the attitude of forum users towards it, but this does not prevent anyone from reversing my original message and directing the discussion about something else.
Since users have the right to such a free interpretation of the question, then I have the right to very freely interpret the pool results. )

3 weeks ago*
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You said you will not read answers. Nevertheless, I will post that if you were not already on my whitelist, I would whitelist you now.

3 weeks ago
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This is way too much pseudo philosophy for my weekend plans

3 weeks ago
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Nietzsche probably used that quote in a very specific context (if I ventured a guess, probably something about the failure of religious institutions). Without context a quote is pretty much meaningless, or a meme at best.

3 weeks ago
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The idea has a contextual origin, but nothing prevents it from being developed and applied to those areas that the author, for one reason or another, did not think about.
The first military engineers who created missiles for war did not think that thanks to their work we would have satellite communications.

3 weeks ago
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The poll should had included the "no punishment" option.

I'm not sure why this turned into if it's ok or not to offend someone or up to which level of offensiveness should be allowed BUT this wasn't your question.

While Nietzsche isn't my forte, and I do find him a bit depressing (which is strange considering he was against pessimism), he does have a lot of good points. This quote is a bit of a double-edged sword. In my eyes, going case by case might prove useful. Outweighing what is probably the better solution. In context to the poll, I don't like that it didn't include this option but what I didn't like the most were the replies there and here. Because the OP's question was how long of a punishment I can somewhat accept that in his mind the "no punishment" wasn't an option. But the replies and on what people focused on there and here.. Nah..

Freedom of speech should be of out most importance. All else, can be debated and fixed later (insults etc) but you take away someone right to speak, you are starting a wave of consequences you reeeally don't want.. And it has philosophers and brilliant people that have explained why multiple times over the course of thousands of years..
Yet here we are, 2024, discussing this.. Disappointment -.-

3 weeks ago
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Thank you for expressing your attitude to the quote and Nietzsche in general. It was a pleasure to read!
Best wishes!

3 weeks ago
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First off, Nietzsche's works aren't uncontroversial, are clearly outdated and have been abused.
That aside, the first part of the paragraph you quoted from, is just about things (which/that), so it can be interpreted as motivation for change, improvement and evolution. The ruin that gets replaced by a new building, old-fashioned clothing being sorted out, a company with an outdated business model closing down.
Then there's the second part of the paragraph, in which Zarathustra celebrates his success over other people and tells his listeners to go for it themselves. Considering that you might get left behind if you don't adapt to changes, it's already a consequence of the first part.
The figure of flying/falling fits into it given that there had been only a few poor attempts back then, but also for striving for the best.

Nietzsche seemed to be into genealogy, Darwin's theories and slaves as a foundation for scientific and cultural creation. However, if you require slaves for progress, you can't kill them (all). In another part of Zarathustra it's stated that humankind would need to become more evil to prosper. It would be interesting to know if he would still have written something like that after the world wars and the atomic bombs.
Despite of rules, social welfare and protection of minorities we still have people which could be viewed as ubermensch or at least on the way to it: stars in sports and culture, super rich people, we still have aristocrats and we are just discussing a person which died 124 years ago. Most democracies are indirect, power is centralised. Nietzsche would maybe still dislike them, but I don't see the "human evolution is hindered by broad masses" theme.

Exaggerated derivation of the quote:
If someone is beaten down by a gang, would you go kick the victim's head? He obviously fell/failed/lost already anyway and seems to be not useful for society anymore. Oof?
Yes, your example regarding drug addicted people explains your view better. However, you still learned something from it, so time and energy wasn't wasted completely. You might regret not leaving them earlier, but it was your own decision. Now you can ignore it, leave it to professionals or just offer short-termed basic help if you encounter it again.

Now regarding the occasion why you created this thread:
How does telling someone to kill themself lead to scientific or cultural progress? I'm asking, because that would be the justification, right?
The words aren't censored, they can still be used in different context. You can even use them this way, but there might be consequences. Freedom of speech protects you from consequences by the government, not from different opinions, dislikes or bans on privately owned websites.

And just like someone shouldn't take those words from a stranger on the internet seriously, a two days ban on a single website is not a big deal either.

3 weeks ago
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1) Thank you for expressing your attitude to the quote and Nietzsche in general. It was a pleasure to read!
2) The example with the gang, it seems to me, was chosen too hastily. Since in it the victim did not make the decision to be beaten. But I’ll develop your thoughts: if the victim received injuries that prevented her from living a normal life and wants to resort to euthanasia, then perhaps it would be more humane to help her in implementing her decision.
3) I was not interested in any of the arguing fools. The community's reaction in the comments prompted me to clarify their attitude to this quote. No more no less.
4) In that thread, based on the context of the question asked, I gave the answer that 1 day is enough, but it is better not to interfere at all in the dispute between two fools. We people are extremely emotional creatures and for the most part we succumb to the provocations of trolls. I’m not sure that person B didn’t specifically make person A emotional, and then didn’t complain about him for his rude words.

3 weeks ago
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No need to thank me, that's what discussions are for.
2) Well, in comparison to drug addicts who made the decision, that's true. Nonetheless old Darwin probably would say: weak are dying out, that's nature, the victim might have had a chance of survival by fleeing. So physically weak and dumb. Now old Nietzsche perhaps would have judged someone endangered of killing themself as mentally weak. Both could have changed their view until now if they still lived. But even today there are still people making fun of mentally ill (even if temporary), female and male toxicity exists, discrimination and bullying happens.
I added that exaggeration to see how far your interpretation of "pushing" goes. Although you mentioned pushing over a cliff in another posting, I guess it's not that far. Denying help isn't an issue (unless in an emergency), revealing or snitching something like drug usage or crimes might happen in good intention, calling professionals for help as well. Providing methods to kill themself is tough and depends on context (their state, their wish and shouldn't rather a professional judge that?).
We rather use the term assisted suicide instead of euthanasia here in Germany due to history, but even that is legally and morally split into "active" and "passive". Is it legally allowed in your country or do you bring it up only as a theretical scenario?

4) I admit that here on SG it's just about words and that's probably where you come from. Otherwise I'd have to say: police is interfering between fools, too. Depending on the residence website owners are obliged to remove hatespeech, insults and similar.
And regarding provocations: it might not seem to be fair at all times for the involved persons, but it doesn't really matter who started it in court, the extent does.
Whether the ban is one day or two, I'd view it as a timeout, actually because of the emotions. I didn't vote in the other thread, although I'm more for context based punishments instead of just 2 days for a wide range of violations and then more upon repetition.

3 weeks ago
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1) It seems to me that even though the works of Darwin and Nietzsche do not adhere to humanistic morality, they focus on very different things. It seems to me that Darwin's theory of evolution describes approximately how and thanks to what we developed as a species. While Nietzsche was trying in his writings not to describe the growth of an individual person in the evolutionary chain, he was rather looking for a model of behavior for a world in which God is dead.
It seems to me that in our time, if I correctly understand the main motive of their works, nothing much would change in their tracts. But they would certainly be subject to economic and social censorship.
2) Until you mentioned the peculiarities of German legislation, I honestly didn’t even think that there were countries that so seriously monitor the messages of their residents on the Internet. I should probably behave more restrained in the future, since the police are not watching me and I can calmly discuss anything and thereby accidentally get someone into trouble... How difficult it has become to communicate with civilized European countries...
3) In my country, euthanasia is prohibited and all my arguments about it are based on mental experiments provoked by the discussion in this thread.
4) In general, I understand that site owners are obliged to comply with the law and have nothing against it. I sincerely wanted to hear how society feels about this quote. It is provocative, but it seems that it is still not prohibited. And in relation to it, we can draw a conclusion about how mature the community on the forum is now.
So far my conclusions are as follows:

  • The loud, active minority is still at the emotional level of children.
  • There are even fewer mature people capable of supporting a provocative conversation.
  • And the vast majority of forum users prefer not to write anything at all and not waste their time on controversial things.
3 weeks ago
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I honestly didn’t even think that there were countries that so seriously monitor the messages of their residents on the Internet.

They don't or rather they couldn't due to the sheer amount. They surely try regarding terrorism and extremism, but everything else like hatespeech, insults etc. requires reports of users. I doubt that an administrator of a very small community would have to pay much, because they didn't remove an insult within one hour. Things like size/reach of the website, staff and available time, profitability would certainly considered by a court. It's mostly for deterrence and awareness raising. Just like wrong parking: they probably don't catch you, but if they do, it could get expensive/annoying.
And I don't think that's wrong. Not because I'd love censorship, but common courtesy or here rather: netiquette. Since you brought it up regarding intruding, you know that concept and expect aspects of it yourself. "Kill yourself" is definitely not netiquette.

In my country, euthanasia is prohibited and all my arguments about it are based on mental experiments provoked by the discussion in this thread.

Thanks for clarifying! It's prohibited here, too, however, there are exceptions like patient advance directive: a declaration in advance how you want to be treated in case of a coma after an accident and surviving solely by machines.

There are even fewer mature people capable of supporting a provocative conversation.

You say it yourself: provocative. That will often lead to emotional feedback. In this case I'm sure it would have been different if there wasn't a reference to the other discussion/issue, but probably also fewer replys.

3 weeks ago
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“Don't do unto others what you don't want done unto you.” is a very, very reasonable guideline on the basics for some simple coexistence.
You may think you wouldnt mind someone telling you that sort of thing at all. Okay, thats you.
Im glad youre in no position where someone saying something like that couldve worsen your state of being or be the turning point for actually doing it
I wonder if you would have the same opinion if you were at rock bottom, in a terrible mental state.

I attempted suicide once. Actually attempted and it wasnt the usual fake-attempts for calling attention either, i had set things up to not even be found easily. It was ugly, not painless, i aborted halfway and in the hospital i learned i was very close to the point where it wouldve been fatal or leave me crippled for life.
Back then, before and some time after that im sure some people telling me something like that would likely trigger me- i couldve done it earlier and for awhile i couldve tried again. Took me some years until i could say i was out of that risk.

I was young, dumber and more imature. That is the stupidiest and worse thing someone can do- not only to thenselves but to everyone around then. I had cases somewhat close to me of suicides and i know how it can wreck entire families...
Words have power. What seems like empty words, 'just internet fight' can under the right cirscunstances pack that kind of punch. For people in those kinds of states small offenses and heck even innocuous words can be interpreted in devastating ways.

"that which is falling should also be pushed" would sound very different from someone on the floor, really down on the receiving end of it.

Frankly Nietzsche wasnt exactly stable emotionally and shows clear signs of projecting his discontent with society, religion and so on rationalizing - wich can be good sure- but to me later in life i strongly feel he failed to realize how much of that was coming from his emotions toward the subjects and not reason proper.
Ive only read the antichrist and zarathustra in my teens, but it was only after all my depression and even the suicide attempt (and after i overcame it) that my take on Nietzsche changed- to someone who was more emotionally charged and how much that wouldve been affecting his conclusions. Talking from experience depression distorts things. I too tried to rationalize everything- heck i still do- and frankly adjusted what i wanted and what i felt in sound arguments... that were BS.

I recall leaving some of my peers (friends and family) without good retorts to my cynical conclusions - wich today i can easily refute... And i was a teenager, above average inteligence at most. Nietzsche was definetly high iq if not an genius- he could definetly craft discourse and arguments to justify anything, wich he did. I wonder if life turned different for him, for better on a personal level or the state of his time improved if he wouldnt change his tune. I bet he would- cynical still but i imagine he would notice the flaws of his previous works and build further upon then or change some of his views

And im not sure he ever used one of those quotes in this kind of context.
It does make more sense if were talking about systems, beliefs, institutions - if one wants to improve, if society/humanity can improve we will need to tear some walls and pillars down. Whats decadent then sure should be pushed.
People tough? To carry that as a maxim to live by, if we did that collectively humanity wouldnt even had reached where were at. Imagine if that was part of our culture throught out history- the first time anyone or anything stumbles to fall the rest would push then over... It would create an even more antagonistic uncoperative society with even more sabotaging.

Im a functional member to society now. So what, i shouldnt be? Should someone had pushed me over it? A kid none the less

This is the internet. The person on the other side could be young and imature, we cant know their state of mind and heck what we type cant even convey tone like voice face to face.

3 weeks ago
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Thank you for the bravery you show with this comment and for being here.

3 weeks ago
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1) I wonder if you would have the same opinion if you were at rock bottom, in a terrible mental state.
I understand that it’s difficult to read all this spam, so I’ll repeat it.
I also had suicidal thoughts as a teenager. But I overcame this crisis and decided that no matter what and at any cost I would continue to live.
2) I had cases somewhat close to me of suicides and i know how it can wreck entire families...
I have seen families destroyed after traffic accidents. To avoid such situations, should we ban transport or limit the speed of all transport to 15 km per hour?
3) For people in those kinds of states small offenses and heck even innocuous words can be interpreted in devastating ways.
If you are a vegetarian, then you should not go to a steak restaurant. If your mental health is unstable, then you should consult a specialist and avoid places and situations in which you may feel worse. No one but you is responsible for your health in the adult world.
4) Thank you for your opinion about Nietzsche as a person, it was nice to read something indirectly related to the topic of the discussion thread.
5) And im not sure he ever used one of those quotes in this kind of context.
I'm sure he would repeat it more than once. It’s just that nowadays the focus would be on other areas of our lives.
6) People tough? To carry that as a maxim to live by, if we did that collectively humanity wouldnt even had reached where were at.
Cruelty is not antithetical to the collective. There are many customs in the history of different cultures that will make the hair of a modern person stand on end. We have become different solely because of the development of scientific and technical progress (which usually occurs thanks to individual breakthroughs of geniuses, and not to the collective). If, God forbid, we roll back and are faced with a lack of medicine and enough food or water for everyone, then the cruelty will return.
7) Im a functional member to society now. So what, i shouldnt be? Should someone had pushed me over it? A kid none the less
From the point of view of Nietzsche's philosophy, you fell into an abyss, but found the strength and will to get out of there, after which you became stronger.
Now you should take your life experience and help your children and friends overcome this crisis. You don’t have to think about others about the rest of the world. Time is a limited resource, or if you waste it, then all your experience and the experience of your family will be lost like tears in the rain. First of all, you MUST save yourself, and thousands around you will be saved.

3 weeks ago
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A truly valuable comment. Thank you for sharing your story.

3 weeks ago
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Thank you for sharing this and I'm glad you got out of there!

3 weeks ago
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Sometimes tough love is better than no love, but there is no reason to act cruelly about it.

3 weeks ago
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I'd be more surprising if someone has access to the internet and somehow doesn't know who Friedrich Nietzsche is, specially on western countries. As for the quote, the answer is quite simple! It depends.

Regarding that other topic, is because current western principles dictate, that a comment like that shouldn't be ignored and in more simple terms, something like that violates point 4 of our community guidelines, so, it has to be punished, for how long thou, it's at the discretion of the staff.

3 weeks ago
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I do agree with her that it was an incredibly shitty thing, but i also believe this to be the moderators' job to handle. Public outcries and randoms wanting to take the rules in their own hands ends up making things sloppier than before.

3 weeks ago
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