So here is a rhetorical situation.

I decided that I wanted to shoot up a school full of kids, so I grabbed an automatic assault rifle, and drove up to school. On my way there, I came across a base full of terrorist that are aliens here to kill every non aliens, and for the purpose of this question; it is in fact a terrorist base, no question about it. I then decided to use up all my ammo to kill the entire terrorist population. Am I a hero? Are intentions... more important than actions?

Note: The government passed a law to be able to kill terrorist. The terrorist are aliens that came to earth to terrorize people. They speak alien. They don't look anything human, they walk on 4 Adolf Hitler. They kinda look like ted bundy, if he was an alien, they have no feelings or thoughts because they are controlled by a master alien and they fuck your mother every night.
lol.. I'm only doing this because people are avoiding the real question to attack the rhetorical situation.

1 month ago*

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Why would you even think about this rhetorical situation seems disturbing to me..

1 month ago
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To make us think. To agree and disagree on something. Its educational.

1 month ago
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Think about what? "I decided that I wanted to shoot up a school full of kids, so I grabbed an automatic assault rifle, and drove up to school." Not sure why you even going there.

1 month ago
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You are way too offended by this. I can tell you get offended easily. You shouldn't be on the internet for the sake of your well-being.

Also, rhetorical me also nuked an entire population full of humans before this. Then released a toxin worst than black plague that killed an entire planet. Every man, woman, kids, dogs, cats are all dead.. I also fuck your mother every night.
I also stabbed jesus in the back. See how terrible internet can be? go away, you sound like you don't watch movies.

1 month ago*
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Whatever.

1 month ago
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I think even if they are full of terrorists, you are still not allowed to just kill them so you will go to jail for a very long time, sure if they are 100% dangerous you may saved others from stuff they might do in the future but that still doesn't give you a free pass to murder people like that.

1 month ago
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well, they are about to kill a bunch of innocent people, and the government has passed a law that its ok to kill terrorist. but you are reading way into this.. the purpose of this situation is to serve the question.. don't question the situation, question the question

1 month ago*
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If a little girl decides to help her mom and accidentally drops a large stack of dishes, then yes, intentions are more important. In your example you are a hero, I'd say. A hero who requires a great deal of help from mental health professionals while staying in a prison for vigilantism, but a hero nonetheless. Basically, I think that generalization is impossible here.

1 month ago
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people will think you're a hero, as long as they don't know why you were there with a gun in the first place. But what people think and what really is are two different things entirely.

1 month ago
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Why are threads like these allowed?

Does shit like this have ANY reason to roam free on Steamgifts?

CaptainTerror:
You are way too offended by this. I can tell you get offended easily. You shouldn't be on the internet for the sake of your well-being. Also, rhetorical me also nuked an entire population full of humans before this. Then released a toxin worst than black plague that killed an entire planet. Every man, woman, kids, dogs, cats are all dead.. I also fuck your mother every night.
I also stabbed jesus in the back. See how terrible internet can be? go away, you sound like you don't watch movies.

^

I mean.. Just because this nut uses the word "rhetorical", doesn't make it any less unsuited around here.
Come on, mods.

1 month ago*
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hey LeonFowl,

support does not want to and does not have the capacity to babysit the community. Although the community is all about (steam) games and sharing we all know it's much more than that. There are puzzles, personal stories, formula 1 threads, groups of all kinds and so on and so on. And threads like this. What one finds appropriate another does not. We value free speech and rely on the good intentions of our members. Only if it's absolutely necessary we step in. We do so when we think it's necessary but this list is a reliable guideline:

Illegal content. For example, sharing links to pirated content, or to services that assist in illegal activity, such as torrent websites.

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Personal attacks or hate speech. Threats, harassment, and slurs (e.g. insults towards a user's race, sexual orientation, or gender) are not allowed.

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Inappropriate use of comment formatting. The intended use of comment formatting is to improve the readability of your posts. An inappropriate use of formatting would be writing all of your content with headings, or using all caps for your comments.

Untagged spoilers. Refer to our instructions on comment formatting for learning how to add spoilers to your content. A spoiler is content that reveals important plot elements of games, movies, tv series, or other types of fiction released in recent years.

Unreasonable bumping. When bumping a discussion you should try to ensure it is in the best interest of the community. If you notice our community is not engaging with the content after it has been bumped a couple of times, then you need to stop bumping the discussion unless important new information or updates would make it appropriate to do so.

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Whitelist solicitation. Do not ask or hint for other users to whitelist you, unless they are explicitly asking or searching for such users and you fulfill their requirements.

1 month ago
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.. a perfectly expected copy paste.

Why even bother. Fuck me sideways this site's "guidelines" infuriate me sometimes 🤬

View attached image.
1 month ago*
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I did my best to respectfully reply to your comment. I'm sorry you're disappointed by its substance.

This site is far from perfect. I personally prefer it the way it is though as opposed to a tightly regulated community with support staff (more than now) arbitrarily deciding what should and should not 'roam free' on this site. 10 people, 10 opinions on what should or should not roam free...

1 month ago
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10 people, 10 opinions

You only need " 1 common sense " to realize that threads about killing kids and fucking your mother is waaaaay off the rails.

But I guess I'm done bumping this crap. It's just...Ridiculous.

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1 month ago*
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Unsurprisingly, mods don't seem to have any problem policing their own threads when it comes to behavior like the OP's.

1 month ago
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Why even bother.

Now you're getting it, and that's the way they like it.

1 month ago
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What if your intention was to help a person but through your actions you accidentally killed them. I would say a lot of history shows examples of people who thought that through their actions they were helping society but in fact they ended up being responsible for the death of 10's of millions of people. cough Communism/Socialism/Marxism/Maoism cough Woke Culture cough SJW's cough sorry, dusty in here from all the ash! :)

Goes to show you the danger of uneducated people who think they have morality on their side (good intention) not understanding what happened in (EVEN RECENT) history or indeed the nightmare that millions of people are still suffering under due to those "Actions" to this day!

1 month ago*
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Define "intentions". What made you decide to change your target? What made you want to shoot that school in the first place? As long as we don't know the underlying intentions it's impossible to say if they're more important than the resulting actions. Those kids could carry a disease that would eventually kill hundreds of people. Those terrorists could be planning to liberate a country from its oppressive government. You could be a psycho, a vigilante or some sort of secret agent. If we don't know the causes we can only judge depending on the acts.

1 month ago
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I invoke Godwin's law.

1 month ago
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As a civil, you aren't supposed to "kill the entire terrorist population" unless imminent perish.

1 month ago
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did u read the part that they are aliens with no feelings or thoughts that are controlled by a master alien and they are there to kill the entire planet population?

1 month ago
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No.
But it would trivialiaze a situation where mass killing terrorist would kinda be standard.

That's what we do in most games.

1 month ago
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ah, Yeah I see what you mean

1 month ago
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Those are two different intentions.

It's like asking if going to see a movie but then instead you stop and get groceries are the same. They're not.

1 month ago
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No one can ever truly see or prove another's intentions. By extension, no one can prove their intentions without actions. The only thing that truly matters are one's actions and the consequences thereof, because events cannot change through intentions alone.

1 month ago
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While your example is way overboard, I'll try to answer the original question.

Actions are more important, because I don't know the intentions of everybody. I only know their actions.

1 month ago
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There's a saying about it: The path to hell is full of good intentions.

1 month ago
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Aliens are fake and please don't shoot kids.

1 month ago
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kids are fake too.. since its rhetorical, and you can't seem to understand that

1 month ago
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i dont understand how you can say that killing an entire base of aliens is an objectively good thing, and wouldn't you need to have an intention to kill the aliens? Sorry but I don't think your example works with your question.

1 month ago
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I don't see why you think its a bad thing? If you to kill a virus to save someone, its a good thing. You don't feel sorry for the virus.. lol

Also, I suppose it had 2 intention. The original one, and surviving the alien terrorist. Its a selfish intentions.

1 month ago
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Where do I say it's a bad thing? Anyways, you should think up a better example

1 month ago
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The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.
Granted that the intentions will definitely have weight on how your actions will be measured.
So actions are more important than intentions.
PS.: notice that on your example there was a shift in the prior intention, which would make you only accountable for the actions you had already taken regarding the initial idea of becoming a mass murdered (and if you're considering doing this, please don't).

1 month ago*
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There is obviously no correct answer to this question. Whatever you answer will reveal the logistics of your moral system, but nothing else, and even then only in theory, not in a practical situation, since reality is almost never clear cut enough to make such distinctions (in a reasonable amount of time). In the real world you wouldn't end up coming across a situation where indiscriminate killing of anyone turns out to be an action that's "obviously" morally correct.

That intentions are more important than actions is very hard to argue, however -- actions are what actually impact other people's lives, intentions are not (unless you communicate them, but that would itself count as an action). At best you could argue that they should somehow factor in when we decide how actions should be judged, and in fact this is a component of most real world law systems if you commit a crime, the mens rea. In many if not most jurisdictions, killing a person and intending to do so is seen as worse than killing a person without intending to do so, even if the ultimate result (and possibly even the actions) are the same in both cases -- it's the difference between murder and manslaughter.

This principle is not usually applied in the inverse, because there is no (formal) system in place for rewarding good deeds, only for punishing bad ones. If I commit what would otherwise be a crime but did not intend to (or even intended to do good), this may lessen my sentence or even result in no punishment at all. If on the other hand I do something heroic but intended to do harm, it's not like my medals will be made of bronze instead of gold, especially not since I'm not required or encouraged to disclose my intentions.

What's more, in the hypothetical you describe your intentions do not even apply to actions you actually undertake -- if you don't shoot up a bunch of innocent people because you spent the ammo in another way (whatever way that may be), that ultimately just means you didn't shoot innocent people. Unless carrying the loaded weapon is itself a crime or morally repugnant action (and that depends), there is no direct link between your original intentions and what you ultimately did (which in the hypothetical is supposed to be a heroic act). There is only the intent to shoot the bad guys, and you actually shooting the bad guys, which (again, hypothetically) is supposed to be all good in both cases. Ultimately, then, your question boils down to "should my original thoughts of doing harm and the initial action to prepare to do harm matter if I end up not doing harm?" And that, again, boils down to how your morality works, there is no objectively correct answer. Many moral systems do condemn merely thinking of doing bad even if it's never followed up by a morally objectionable action, especially when religion gets involved, but whether you subscribe to them is up to you.

Ethics has kept philosophers busy for many centuries now, and it's likely to keep them busy for quite a while longer. Since I'm not a philosopher, the above probably doesn't even scratch the surface of where you can go with things.

1 month ago
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claps

1 month ago
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If you kill the aliens as the Ted Bundy faced, Hitler-legged motherfuckers that they are and no one knows that you were on your way to your own school shooting - you will be treated as a hero. I wouldn't say you are one, but circumstances made you one in the eyes of the public. For the moment, school shootings might not be off your agenda yet after all, you might just be out of ammo?

If it was already known that you were going to shoot up the school, or if it is discovered afterwards, the whole thing will be written off as two terrorist factions warring with each other. No one will think you are a hero.

It's like hearing about murderers in jail that kills jailed pedophiles. Do we like what they did? Yes. Do we like them, do we think they are heroes? No.

1 month ago
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Imo, intentions mean nothing.
If you go around referring to, I don't know, black people as n-words, gay men as f****s because you just didn't know any better, that doesn't mean what you said wasn't hurtful, despite your "good intentions" of making lighthearted jokes or whatever.
As for bad intentions, as long as no one's acting on those, how's there even an issue? In your example the kids ended up living, and while one could argue that they "maybe wouldn't be that lucky next time", it's not the intention that's gonna kill them, but actions. Idk, seems pretty cut and dried to me.

1 month ago
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Intentions definitely mean something, at the very least. The most obvious example is how our intentions help shape our actions. It often describes what we try to do. If you try to treat others with respect, you're going to do just that, at least to some extent, depending on your intelligence, moral compass, etc. Although it's not uncommon to do bad things with good intentions, that doesn't make intentions irrelevant. If you (consistently) live by the idea that intentions mean nothing and that they're irrelevant no matter the situation (which I think almost nobody actually does), you are not an empathetic person and you are likely to inflict a lot of unnecessary harm on others.

But I do not actually think this is the case. I think you either exaggerated, misspoke, or have a different interpretation of what intentions are. And so, apropos, trying to understand your intentions helped me to respectfully disagree with what you said, as opposed to assuming some very bad things about you.

If you go around referring to, I don't know, black people as n-words, gay men as f****s because you just didn't know any better, that doesn't mean what you said wasn't hurtful, despite your "good intentions" of making lighthearted jokes or whatever.

No, but it makes it less awful and more redeemable. Context matters A LOT. Let's say you have an opinion/joke/whatever that would offend a lot of people and you're a "good" person. You'd know it would probably be best not to share it openly, or at least to be mindful of how you said it, except if you're a comedian and you live to make people laugh. But maybe you have a friend who agrees with you or does not take offense because they know you're just joking. You share whatever in private, you have a laugh. No harm done. There's a stark contrast between that and being a bully who disingenuously uses humor as a shield while repeatedly calling someone names, despite learning of the consequences of your actions.

1 month ago
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> They don't look anything human, they walk on 4 Adolf Hitler.
wtf 😂

Formulating it like this might be more... interesting / fitting?...: You decide to commit mass murder but everyone that was killed was evil. (Let's assume killing is good in this case.)
bad intention -> unintended good action.

More generalized that could be:

Have the intention to do A(evil), then do B (assumed good)
but with two possibilities:

  • do A which leads to B.
  • do B instead of A (intention still might be present but can't be performed anymore)

In the end actions will have an effect, no matter the intentions. But are they thereby more important?
I think it can't be really generalized you can construct examples for all cases. And the hidden truth and possible reactions can't be known.


Situational answer: Give you a medal then throw you into an asylum.^^ (but normally we wouldn't know the bad intention)

... it's to alte for my brain.

1 month ago
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Keep your thoughts to yourself. You'll get committed to an asylum for this sort of rant.

1 month ago
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Years ago a guy told me that he thought about a scenario where he went to a school and shot some kids because he was bullied in school. He claimed he would never do it, just thought about it btw. I was bullied in school and would never have dreamed of such a thing. Good thing he lived on the other side of the world, so I'd never meet him. Kinda freaked me out.

This rhetorical question just weirded me out in the same way. Sorry.

1 month ago
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So many brain farts .... or study stuff

Rhetorical, hypothetical, generalization, extreme black and white situation..... blablabla

Go out and live.

1 month ago
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1 month ago
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What you did by taking out the terrorists would normally be considered a heroic move, but you're a horrible piece of shit because you're just like them, as you would have killed all those kids in the school.

1 month ago
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Why are threads like these allowed?

Does shit like this have ANY reason to roam free on Steamgifts?

CaptainTerror:
You are way too offended by this. I can tell you get offended easily. You shouldn't be on the internet for the sake of your well-being. Also, rhetorical me also nuked an entire population full of humans before this. Then released a toxin worst than black plague that killed an entire planet. Every man, woman, kids, dogs, cats are all dead.. I also fuck your mother every night.
I also stabbed jesus in the back. See how terrible internet can be? go away, you sound like you don't watch movies.

^

I mean.. Just because this nut uses the word "rhetorical", doesn't make it any less unsuited around here.
Come on, mods.

1 month ago
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On one hand, it feels like comparing action to reaction. Both are part of the same puzzle, but they can't be truly compared in the same categories, because they are their separate things.

Ultimately however, I think that the situation skews towards actions being more important. If 30 people, each and every one of them with their own intentions do the same thing, their intentions don't really matter from one point of view, since the action made was still the same for all of them.
What if action in the end turns out to go against the original intent? It would mean that the action, once taken, has a possibility of making intent irrelevant by making it either unfulfilled, or even harder to achieve in the future, simply by person being unable to predict such outcome.
On the flipside, your intent can't affect the result of taken action.
And lastly - the world reacts not to our intents, but to our actions.

Which is not to say that intent is irrelevant. Without it, there would be no action at all, no matter if it aligns with intent or not in the end. Also, while not mattering to the world, intent may be of interest to people, and most importantly, to the person taking the action.

In the end, you'd probably be a hero in such a situation.

1 month ago
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