What should we do?
NOTE: Poll result will likely have no effect on our decision. It's just there for fun.
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I unfortunately had a fox that tried to hunt in my courtyard in Berlin when I lived there. Wanted the wild bunnies. And while I understand the circle of life and all... I liked the bunnies more. I scared it off at one point and it didn't come back.
But before that happened, I actually saw it eating one of the bunnies. :/
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Wow! It is cute!
I don't know much about wildlife or shelters or laws regarding wild animals (especially in another country), so I'm sorry I don't have any solid advice.
Thanks, though!
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I couldn't imagine euthanizing such a beautiful animal. Are there any nature preserves you could call to ask for advice? Some will take in orphaned animals for later release. Or are they not native to your area?
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Yeah, that's the thing. They're not native. A nature reserve is probably where the authorities would least want foxes to end up!
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:(
If it were me I'd keep it as long as doing so wasn't breaking any laws. But I would have no idea how to raise one. I doubt it's the same as having a dog.
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Euthanization shouldn't even be a option on that poll, that's disgusting.
If saving a creature's life (especially that of a healthy, peaceful child) means a bit of effort, then you make that effort.
You can only hope the same comes to you in turn.
To answer your question, domesticated foxes end up being very similar to dogs, but since they lack the same established genetic association toward pack mentality, they tend to be more independent and curious, like ferrets or cats.
Just like those two, they tend to do poorly without new stimulation, and require high upkeep if you don't want them just sleeping around all day.
Foxes make excellent pets, but occasionally they will be somewhat feral and hard to control.
Other times, they'll be the smartest dog you've ever met (albeit still very free-spirited).
Worth noting that ALL animals- even dogs and cats- are considered pests somewhere.
Don't let an arbitrary social designation color your opinion there.
Foxes, Chinchillas, Racoons, et al, make excellent pets, albeit high maintenance ones.
Racoons, for example, are associated with garbage and dirtyness and disorder, but they're actually as a rule very peaceful animals and will try to stay away from physical conflict at all costs. (Compare to opossums, which are legendarily vicious, essentially just being giant angry rats).
They're also smart and can be trained and communicated with, and get along well with other pets.
Flip side, they're hard to manage- they've very nimble hands, and won't hesitate to get into things they shouldn't. Ferrets likewise get into things they shouldn't, with a suicidal degree of curiosity.
All these animals aren't worse than any other animal companions you already have.
In fact, they tend to be smarter than most examples of most domesticated dog breeds.
They're just higher maintenance and tend to require more of an equalized relationship, like cats, than the blind obedience of dogs.
Just for that, blind association to the term 'pest', and an unwillingness to pay to relocate them if they are being pests, people feel it's okay to kill them just to kill them, even if they're been nothing but friendly to other creatures in your household.
Of course, that shouldn't be surprising, given that MILLIONS of dogs and cats are murdered in shelters each year, even though it's been shown that it's far more cost effective to spay/neuter and release them [as that helps counter new population growth significantly].
People do what they do from a combination of selfish desire for what's easiest for them, an inability to properly evaluate cost-benefit, and a complete disregard for the lives of others.
Whether it's because of someone's religion, the color of their skin, or their species, killing them JUST TO KILL THEM is never a morally justifiable course.
So, in summary:
Foxes are high maintenance, but rewarding. They're smart and companionable, and cause problems for other animals in your household even less often than dogs tend to.
If you want to put in the effort, you could make a valuable friend.
If you don't, there are plenty of organizations of people that love foxes and will do what they can to protect them (or to educate you on how to interact with them, if you decide to keep it- or even just help you decide if that's what you want to do.)
Try searching around [google is a great start] to see what organizations have presence near you.
This trusting, lovely child deserves you at least make the effort of seeing who can help it, before you decide it no longer has the right to live.
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Thanks for the opinion and advice. Highly appreciate it! Still reading through it all though.
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Worth noting I've known and interacted with people with fox pets, they're quite popular- and I've heard and seen only good things.
I kinda view it like having a pet bird you regularly let fly free in the house [like one of my sisters does]. It'll be a great, unique companion to you, and it won't harm anything, but it'll occasionally make a mess you need to be willing to clean up.
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We've hard pet birds before. We had a tame cockatiel that we let fly around inside the house. Over time, the family has had lots of pets. Guinea pigs, rabbits, quail, budgies, a cat, blue heeler (dog).
We've rescued animals before too, like a duck, a little honey eater (bird), and some possums which I believe I mentioned earlier, though with the possums it was less a rescue and more a "relocate to outside the house" type deal.
Pretty unfamiliar with foxes to be honest. The main issue at the moment while we decide what to do is to keep it comfortable and probably fed. Tried giving it a strawberry but it doesn't take any notice. It has water but doesn't seem to need it either. It so far has mostly just curled up in the corner of the box it's in. It's a big box and it has some light and plenty of ventilation.
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Canned dog or cat food along with a few vegetables and eggs, generally, I believe; supplemented by a bit of dog or cat kibble and fruits [feeding your foxes fruits is what causes their feces to become slimey and sloppy, so try doing that in moderation].
I wouldn't trust any one site out there, as everyone seems to have their own approach to the specifics, but this one seems a reasonable first place to look for some starting tips.
I've noticed animals tend to hesitate to eat in new environments.
It's young enough you might be able to nurse it.
But generally, just let any animal get relaxed and it'll do what it'll do eventually- and if not, it'll get sickly, and that's when you can start getting concerned.
Might also try some meat broth, that'd be a good first step in giving them fluids, while catering to their carnivorous preferences.
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Some good advice there. Thanks! I was thinking of dogfood or similar next.
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I cut it myself!
On accident. While shaving. I'm clumsy.
But it worked out!
I mean, sometimes I sail in circles, but.. hey, it happens.
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You shave your sails? Do they become embarrassing, hairy messes if you don't?
Enjoy your time on the S.S. Wig while you can. One day it will get too old and becomes the S.S. Toupee.
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:X]
I sure hope they don't end up becoming hairy messes. That'd be quite awkward.
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if you castrate them could that reduce the feral instinct? o.o
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Castration is a good idea for any animal where breeding isn't a concern, as it reduces misbehavior and health problems.
Feral behavior does not necessarily mean aggressive behavior, it just means that the animals tend to rely on their instincts more, to the point of resisting attempts to train them to do otherwise.
In the case of Foxes, they're a very non-aggressive species [dogs are actually more aggressive in general], so feral behavior in them isn't especially a danger of any sort.
Rather, their feral traits tend to be wanting to run free [they do bad in small enclosures, and tend to be hard to train to peacefully walk alongside you without a leash on them], burying their prey [meaning, heavy instincts towards digging up the lawn], and being extremely exploratory [think, cat jumping on counters].
Like any non-domesticated animal, they tend to have issues with boundaries, chewing on things, and getting into things they're not supposed to.
Non-domesticated species also tend to have more pungent urine, for territory marking purposes, which can turn a lot of humans off of being willing to take care of them.
Of course, these are all traits any troublemaking domestic animal could ALSO have, and it's very important to note that all animals, not just humans, are quite unique and distinct and have differing traits.
Some foxes will be more dog-like, some, more cat-like. Others will be more feral and disobedient.
The important thing is how much the specific feral traits of the species bother you, how willing to adapt to them you are, and, of course, if the individual actually emphasizes any of the negative traits in question, or not.
When deciding to take in any animal, domesticated or not, you should consider the potential negative traits a member of a species MAY have, and attempt to mitigate them- but also not to get angry at the animal if they don't obey you easily in 'fixing' their habits.
An animal being from a non-domesticated species doesn't necessarily mean they make poor companions- often, the line between domesticated and non-domesticated can be a very blurry one.
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Thanks, i was focusing on the aggressive behavior :p
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nice related giveaways!
Cute little thing! Isn;t there an animal shelter nearby? They'd know what to do...
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KEEP IT OR FEEL THE WRATH OF FOXHOUNDS ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
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Seriously though, of all the creatures here in Australia that we live with and find inside our homes every now and then, what are the chances of happening upon a baby fox?
Just last week we found a blue tongue lizard at the work office. And much preferable to finding a huntsman which are pretty common.
EDIT... I should add, both of those last animals only needed to be caught and put outside. Though sometimes with huntsmen we just leave them be. They mostly hang about on the roof or walls and aren't harmful to humans anyway.
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Damn, my grandmother insanely loves foxes and always wishes to have one as a pet and here you find one or he found you.. i showed my grandmother those photos and told her about all this, this little cutie foxie chose YOU she says, she or he has come to you with her blessings and will bring good luck in your life, DO NOT ethunize the little adorable foxy if it means putting her down via sleeping drugs, dont... you yourself say so, what are the odds of her or him, being there in your Home... you gotta keep him, raise him right, i personaly think its too risky to give her/him away and seems no reserves will suffice.. either way this is too....big of a thing, this fox is meant to be taken under your care and so you should, please take good care of the cute foxy.. man, for once i wished we lived in Australia, my grandmother would have been so happy to have this fox, got even a bit sad thinking too much about it.. anyway, he's meant for you so keep him, only good things will come surely. P.s. gnarly lizard you have there, would have loved to have it for myself, cant believe your animal catching luck :( all we have is cats and birds here and only one has come near our Home but not gotten in.. ugh...oh and that spider is horrfying as hell, eugh D: !!! Awh man, you gotta keep your guard up i see... anyway, please take good care pf the foxy, he's definetly meant to be with you...
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Holy... I would die immediately if I see the huntsman :[
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I've heard they domesticate fairly easily (as much as anything does), but that they smell.
Aaaaaand that fox crap is horrible, greasy, and the worst thing in the world to run into if you're in the lawn mowing business.
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Cutest thing evah! Can I keep 'em? Q.Q
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Cutie! But I doubt fox is a domestic animal that can be tame easily. After all fox is associated to the word sly. Just be careful.
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I think I hear "sly dog" more than I do "sly fox"! It's true though. It's a wild animal and keeping one isn't exactly as simple as it might seem in fairytales. For one, they can carry diseases (e.g. rabies).
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No more than any other animal, and they've no higher chance of getting it than any other pet you own :P
And you'd be able to tell right away if it has rabies, rabies is essentially a 2-weeks-then-you-die type of thing.
In rare cases that's not true, but you can still tell by its behavior whether or not it's acting irrationally- and as a cub, it's little likely to have it anyway.
They do tame easily, though, just often never fully so.
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Its a cub, no way does it have any of that crap... you could always check out from a vetenarist but seriously, it cant be that bad.. and its a cub, gotta give it warm milk i believe, not water, not yet.. or could give both, who knows...
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Sly fox, great beer from Feral!
Also if you are in NSW it's legal for you to keep the fox, not so in every other state.
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No matter how cute it is, it is still a wild animal. You can try to tame it, but it will likely always pose a danger. There are probably laws against it as well, especially since it is considered an invasive species.
Whatever your opinion on the veracity of Wikipedia may be, they have some decent information about people in your situation.
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considering the infection rate of rabies in foxes in Australia is about 80% (In bats it's closer to 90%), and as a classified pest animal, it's pretty much illegal to keep.
Get it put down asap.
The longer you keep it the harder it will be.
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That is the way I'm leaning. My partner is the one more likely to get attached but I think she will understand in the end this is what has to be done.
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:winces so very strongly at that horrible unjustifiable phrasing:
I've heard from other Australians that they just take wild foxes and dingos and drive them far out from cities and leave them, so they at least have a chance of continuing to survive.
It's certainly not as useful as seeing if any humans are willing to properly relocate the animal, but '[killing] has to be done' definitely doesn't seem correct. :X
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In the end, this is an invasive species that is harmful to both people and the local ecosystem. no one likes killing cute animals (though oddly most wouldn't give a crap about the ugly ones) but it sometimes must be done. It simply isn't feasible to relocate a non-endangered invasive species.
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Don't project your expectations of twisted concepts on me.
I'm autistic, and part of that is that I have no inherent prejudices, period- not 'even' speciesism.
Also, your concepts of beauty are foreign to me, since I see via musculature rather than by skin.
Isn't feasible? What's the price on a life? Is $300 too much? $20?
The fact is, you're determining you have the right to decide that value.
Whether that's actually true or not, it's the height of arrogance.
This fox hasn't been a pest, and we have an OP potentially willing to take it in, there are groups willing to assist, and you can just drive it off into the wild and leave it if you want.
Eventually, that may have a negative outcome.
But I'd certainly rather take a potential negative, than a guaranteed one.
No, the problem isn't social expectations..
It's that I value any life more than you do, as well as that I have no reason to think a fox worth less than a human.
Existentially speaking, I'm far more likely to be in the right [as existentialism emphasizes the worth of any individual]- but, existentialism also gives credence to any perspective you have.
So stop giving me more of this victimized meat-eaters/killers have rights also BS, and actually admit that a full accounting of all the possibilities and potentials need to be assessed before making a decision.
You'll note I never said anything the eventuality of killing it, or any other creature.
My entire point was the arrogance, the inattention to involved factors, and the unwillingness to put in effort, that is the trademark of humanity.
In other words, my point was against humanity, not in favor of non-humans.
If you've got termites in your yard, killing them is validatable by the fact that they're swarm creatures and will eventually destroy a great amount of things.
If you find termites in the forest, however, things start becoming more complex- you need to assess whether killing them is better or worse for the local ecosystem.
'cause if you just walk up to them and kill them just to kill them?
Hey, interesting fact.
That's been proven to be (as I recall the number) 89% indicative of psychopathic tendencies (that eventually lead to you harming humans)- which is why in so many places, animal cruelty has actual strong legal penalties and puts you on 'watch lists'.
My point is for us to behave with dignity and consideration [and not go lighting ant hives on fire].
That's all.
But at the very least, if you're going to kill it, have the grace to kill it with your bare hands and then photo the resulting scene.
Take responsibility for the action of killing something for reasons other than self-defense/protection of your own, survival, or protection of a large amount of assets due to established individual habits.
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No, NO!!! Dont kill it!!! Theres no need to be so cruel merciless!!! Please keep it safe and well taken care of by you and your partner, its wrong to put this beautifull animal down, as my grandmother says, all animals/beings deserve to live their lives so dont take away this little foxy's life, please!
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Should have a look at the link posted below. http://sydneyfoxrescue.com/foxfacts/ They will take care of it for you (even if you live far from Sydney). Also, fyi, there is no rabies in Australia. Also, they are legal to keep in NSW.
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I actually tried calling that group today and left a message but they have not called me back for the whole day. I'm getting conflicting advice about rabies now. From what I remember, we have quarantine laws designed to prevent rabies spreading here (some might have heard about the incident with Johnnie Depp's dogs), but then if it's common in some species here why is quarantine an issue?
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To prevent rabies from getting to Australia in the first place, I guess. Because they have good quarantine system, rabies virus is unlikely to spread. There is a similar disease in bats though it hardly ever infects human.
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Yes, I think I've heard when someone's been bitten by a bat they go and get a rabies shot afterwards, as a precaution I guess. EDIT.. It's not rabies but some other (still very harmful) virus in bats.
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Yep, that's what the quarantine laws are for: to keep rabies out. And why people were so pissed off with Depp. Did you try Yagoona RSPCA? From their tumblr page:
Is the fox injured or in need or immediate veterinary care?
If so please call our fox friendly vets at the RSPCA Yagoona Veterinary Hospital on (02) 9770 7555 and arrange to bring in the fox ASAP. If you are outside of the Sydney area other vets in NSW and legally allowed to treat foxes and can call the RSPCA Yagoona Veterinary Hospital for advice. If you are outside on NSW please call Fox Rescue Sydney for further advice.
If the fox is not injured:
- Find the fox a quiet secure area free from danger such as a clean laundry or an animal carer.
- Offer the fox water or lactose free puppy milk.
- Offer the fox plain steamed or boiled chicken or chicken puppy food, small amount of carrots, pears and apples may also be given. It is advised that you wear gloves and do not try and handle to fox if possible until its temperament has been properly assessed.
- Call Fox Rescue Sydney at your earliest convenience on 0406 162 955.
Where in NSW are you? I'm in the Tweed Region. I might be able to take it if you need someone to look after it.
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http://www.health.gov.au/internet/main/publishing.nsf/content/ohp-rabies-consumer-info.htm
Huge amount of cases over the past 10 years and increasing.
Foxes were listed last year as having the second highest concentration.
I'm not a kill em all and let god sort em out type, but if you have a family and especially kids, Why take the risk on an animal that was up until a few years ago, Redeemable for $15 per /ears & Tail at the police station or in some cases the post office?
Australian natural fauna is disappearing at an increasing rate, while non native species such as pigs, cats dogs and yes - Foxes, are on the increase.
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That link confirms what I said: there is no rabies in Australia. Preservation of native fauna is a concern, rabies is not.
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thats so cute. but you must take it to the Vet. and that means getting a license or something.
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Not sure where you are, but you could check out these guys: http://sydneyfoxrescue.com/foxfacts/.
He's adorable. Certainly a lot nicer than the fox that ate our geese and new duck family a few years ago. :'-(
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Well it's very young, it's shape is likely still developing. I'm no expert but I'd guess it's a European Red Fox, the most common one here.
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I would release it. Sure they are a big problem (especially in countries like yours, where they're not in their natural habitat), but this way you give it a fighting chance. Yeah, it's a cub and the odds of it surviving on its own are slim, but thats how nature goes.
I don't envy you for having to take a decision like this,
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I love foxes more that dogs, but we don't have foxes here so I don't know how to advise you (and other people have already given a lot of advice). My only thought is "OMG I wish that fox came into my house instead".
BTW, I don't think that fox is an infant, as it is quite big. Maybe it is just scared so it doesn't eat.
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Just weighed it - 1.6kg. That's what, not even a small Chihuahua.
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Foxes are close to wild dogs. There are a few that can stay domesticated when they reach adulthood, but they usually remain wild animals; there is a fox reservation somewhere in Scandinavia who try to breed domesticated foxes, but so far several generations in they have limited success.
So, when it grows up, there is a huge chance it will be a problem. A pest in the house, a pest in the wild. I don't care how cruel others think this is, but IMO the most humane option is to euthanize it.
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What Does The Fox Say??
Be friend with me ofc xD
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FINAL UPDATE: The little fox was given to a good home! Final picture: Clicky
UPDATE 1: After some days caring for the little one, things are looking good at this stage that it will be given a home. For a number of reasons, including that we have dogs already and we wouldn't have the time to look after a puppy let alone a tiny fox, it is impractical for us to keep it. It's complicated enough for the people who seek to adopt, what with foxes having a pest control order legislated only recently and special permits being necessary.
Original post:
Last night our dogs discovered an animal in the bedroom. At first I thought we'd had another possum come inside, as they tend to find their way down the chimney every now and then. Shining a torch under the dresser where it was hiding, I was startled to find a fox! Fortunately it was only a little one (a cub? A kit actually). We were able to catch it pretty easily with a towel (as I have done with possums, with care) and it was surprisingly very tame.
Foxes are pests in Australia though and any place we talk to will advise euthanizing it. Seems reasonable as they can cause significant damage to the native wildlife here, just as feral cats would. This one being just a
cubkit though, it's so harmless, it might have been orphaned. Doesn't seem to be eating either so maybe it was still living on milk, though it could just be that it's frightened.In any case, ethically we don't think it's an option to release it into the wild again as 1) it is a pest technically and 2) if it was recently orphaned it's likely it will not survive on its own and may suffer (starve or get attacked by other predators).
I've heard there are people that adopt foxes as pets, and this one seems like a good candidate for that as it appears so young and tame, but we don't know how practical that is nor how legal that is (it almost certainly isn't, certainly not without a permit of some kind).
All said, the thing is damn adorable. Just look at the pictures below!
What do you guys think? Anyone have experience with foxes, other than hunting them?
Obligatory themed giveaways:
Greyfox
Spy Fox in: Dry Cereal
Fox & Flock
Fitz the Fox
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