Palestinians don't have blue eyes and blonde hair though
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Because pointing out it'd be nice if we were as focused on being against war everywhere as we people are about Ukraine, that'd be a bad thing right?
Who cares about war anywhere else, when there's a new and shiny one to put all of our focus on.
On another note, wasnt there something bigger to worry about just a couple weeks ago?
As most of the planet doesnt live within a thousand miles of Ukraine, it's awfully weird to see so many excited about this war for some reason, while discounting all the fear porn from the past 2 years, or the previous 4 where the corporate media consistently lied and overblew Russian involvement, that was later turned out to be all lies...
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Are you talking about the Russian involvement in the US elections that was proven to be true? If not what are you referring to that is "all lies"?
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It only tells me that people either don't understand why some conflicts receive different levels of attention or that they intentionally compare apples and oranges because of some other motivation than empathy.
Both isn't helpful and doesn't do the victims of any conflict justice.
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Dude, Turkey invaded Syria, a peaceful part of Syria and kicked out, according to the UN, about 150.000 kurds. A textbook example of ethnic cleansing, and the world didn't do anything. Then we have the Urgyur situation in China. And I'm not even going to mention Yemen, or the other fifty conflicts going on around the world at this very moment, like Lybia
You are EXACTLY using the same double standards than everybody else. Why do you care so much about Palestina, and not about Syria, China and Yemen? The number of death of those conflicts dwarfs many times over Palestina. Why the double standards? Last time I read that the Yemen war was spilling to your country.
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Aaaand, blacklisted by you. Thank you for the respectful conversation. Since you are using insults, I'll stop bothering talking to you. I never feed trolls.
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Sadly it seems your both subject to the mind washing and divide and conquer tactics.
Why cant we respect eachothers feelings and viewpoints, and express our one, without having to tear eachother down?
You attacked him about double standards that you perceived, and then he obviously replied to that criticism negatively.
As you mentioned, there are many wars going on around the globe, and pointing out every singe one out of respect, is only going to take away from the point you're trying to make.
In this case the point being made, is the odd push to upset over Ukraine, so much so that Facebook is repealing it's policy on hate speech, when it's directed at Russians.
This kind of accepted hate is much more detrimental to us as a civilization, than if ukraine was solidly glassed over. Yes, it'd be horrific to see a nation wiped out, or subject to war. But it's even worse to start down the slipper slope, by saying to say to fellow humans it's ok to act like poo flinging apes, but only when directed at this one group.
Similar to saying this one group can fling as much poo as they want, because since they were hurt in the past, we need to be understanding and respectful of their emotional outlook that makes them need to fling poo.
Nice summary of the issue from this Irish MP https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mu2uI0gZD-c
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Where is that ''a peaceful part of Syria''? I don't think there has been a peaceful place in Syria since 2011.
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The.north of Syria, after kurds managed to stop ISIS genocidal attack and counterattack, managed to to be quite peaceful, compared to the rest of the country. Until Turkey attacked.
And, oh well. The fighting has stopped for the moment in most fronts. The peace of the cemeteries. Sadly
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You are saying peaceful parts, but these places were hiding places of the terrorist organizations that killed a lot of civilians (and soldiers,police...) in Turkey.
https://140journos.com/terror-attacks-in-turkey-between-2011-and-2017-4b5981c974ca
Just like Russia's propaganda, there is a huge "Kurdish freedom fighters" propaganda by those terrorist organizations, while in reality they are kidnapping young people and washing their brains.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mothers_of_Diyarbak%C4%B1r
It can be discussed whether the method is wrong or right etc. but you can't say Turkey just attacked a peaceful city with no connections to any of those groups.
(By the way, I am not saying Turkey is saint, but we probably see it by now that no country is saint, and it is actually quite inversely proportional with country's power.)
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We are all suffering propaganda. You and me all.
However while manycountries designate PKK as terrorist, almost every intelligence service in the west considers the PKK and YPG somehow related, but not the same organization.
Even if that were true, and PKK and YPG were exactly the same, does it justify invading a country and committing ethnic cleansing, and the rapes? I mean, your link is about things happening in Turkey. I was talking about Syria.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_occupation_of_northern_Syria
After the Turkish-led forces had captured Afrin District (Afrin Canton) in early 2018, they began to implement a resettlement policy by moving their mostly Arab fighters and refugees from southern Syria into the empty homes that belonged to displaced locals. The previous owners, most of them Kurds or Yazidis, were often prevented from returning to Afrin. Though some Kurdish militias of the SNA and the Turkish-backed civilian councils opposed these resettlement policies, most SNA units fully supported them. Refugees from Eastern Ghouta, Damascus, said that they were part of "an organised demographic change" which was said to replace the Kurdish population of Afrin with an Arab majority. More than 200,000 people fled from Afrin District during the Turkish intervention by March 2018, while 458,000 displaced persons from other parts of Syria were settled in Afrin following the Turkish intervention.
It was reported that Yazidi and other Kurdish women and girls have been kidnapped by the SNA since the occupation of Afrin began in early 2018, either for ransom, rape, forced marriage, or because of perceived links to the Democratic Union Party. It was alleged that many of them were later killed. This activity has been interpreted as part of an Islamist policy of discouraging women from leaving their homes and to remove them from the civic activity they had been encouraged to take part in under the Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria, as well as part of a broader plan to discourage the return of Yazidi and other Kurdish refugees who fled Afrin in 2018
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We are all suffering propaganda. You and me all.
I agree.
I mean, your link is about things happening in Turkey. I was talking about Syria.
I was talking about Turkiye because you start your words with "Turkey invaded Syria". There was a reasoning behind "invading". Imagine if Ukraine would house terrorists who make attacks to Russia, we would look current situation differently.
After the Turkish-led forces had captured Afrin District (Afrin Canton) in early 2018, they began to implement a resettlement policy by moving their mostly Arab fighters and refugees from southern Syria into the empty homes that belonged to displaced locals.
As I said before, terrorist organizations were kinda using these towns/mountains as their HQ. If you look at from Turkiye's point of view, cleaning these lands from terrorism(against your country) and dividing Kurdish population between your country and Syria (because Kurdistan plans backed by west intelligence) makes sense, no? I already said methods still can be discussed, but I am not sure.
It was reported that Yazidi and other Kurdish women and girls have been kidnapped by the SNA since the occupation of Afrin began in early 2018...
There was a lot of opposition against working together with SNA in our country as well, and I simply agree that a lot of disgusting things happened by SNA. I still wish we didn't mentioned together in any way with them. I wish we didn't mentioned together with any of the sides at all, because I don't think the outcome would be very different (war mindset, low education, how islam's "war loot" rules works...)
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"There was a reasoning behind "invading"." Every invasion in history on the world has a reasoning behind "invading". Even Putin uses the nazi excuse. That doesn't mean it's true.
The thing is, the only country in the world that considers Afrin District as a haven for terrorist is Turkey. Turkey could have moved their army to the frontier as pressure. Even Putin did that before invading. And OK, let's say it's true it was a haven for terrorist. It doesn't excuse ethnic cleansing.
"because Kurdistan plans backed by west intelligence" as far as I know, there is no "Kurdistan plans backed by west intelligence" just because Turkey's goverment says so, it doesn't make it true. No country supported the kurds in their referendum of independence in Iraq, for example. Putin also claims there are nazis in Ukraine.
"There was a lot of opposition against working together with SNA in our country as well, and I simply agree that a lot of disgusting things happened by SNA" currently the SNA's salaries are being paid by the goverment of Turkey, and Turkey is the occupier of the Afrin canton. So, according to international law, Turkey is responsible for the ethnic cleansing. Also, since the SNA are basically mercenaries, I can't believe they would commit ethnic cleansing without orders from Turkey's goverment, since, that who controls the purse and all that.
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That doesn't mean it's true.
"Not all of them true" doesn't mean all of them false as well. I already explained the reason to you, but looks like you just ignored it? Because you can't possibly say "they are nazi" and "87 attacks that killed near 1000 people" (and more because it is a lot older issue) are the same.
The thing is, the only country in the world that considers Afrin District as a haven for terrorist is Turkey. Turkey could have moved their army to the frontier as pressure.
"World" consider these places as capital of peace? They even try their best to not consider some groups terrorists, which I am sure they would shit themselves if they were the neighbors with them.
And there were a LOT of operations to the mountains before (which helped overall) but couldn't totally solve the issue. It's not like the issue is appeared, and the next day we entered.
as far as I know, there is no "Kurdistan plans backed by west intelligence"
It didn't surprise me you didn't find a google result about it, because that's kinda the point.
Just google a "kurdistan map" and you will find a big chunk of Turkey as part of it, it was even part of the Google Maps a while ago (later changed with Turkish Official's request) And from what I can see (as someone who always lurks international forums) it was just getting more recognition like it is official, as part of the "freedom fighters" propaganda.
So, according to international law, Turkey is responsible for the ethnic cleansing.
It is simply amazing that whenever we even touch a subject from a point (including before "invading") it is somehow ethnic cleaning (It is even so easy to go as far as saying Turkey orders it, since why not), but when others even creates it, it is simply not. Maybe because they are bringing peace unlike us, right?
https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2019/11/27/who-are-turkeys-proxy-fighters-in-syria/
(from the source)
...Turkey relied on already existing Syrian rebel factions, some of which once received support from the CIA-led Military Operations Command or the Department of Defense Train and Equip Program. The CIA-run program, codenamed Timber Sycamore...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timber_Sycamore
Overall, if you think that there is no hidden agenda by (especially bigger) countries, and they are not trying to create something that they can easily control, and people are not dying thanks to them, you are basically deceiving yourself.
I won't continue this discussion anymore.
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"you can't possibly say "they are nazi" and "87 attacks that killed near 1000 people" (and more because it is a lot older issue) are the same" the azov batallón is a sad reality in the ground. And Ukraine has a sad history in relation to nazism.
"they would shit themselves if they were the neighbors with them" no offense but the YPG and SDF seemed kind of cool. They were treating their women with respect, and were not invading their neighbours. I mean, Iraq, Armenia, Chipre, Finland, Estonia, or Ukraine would rather have a Kurdistan as neighbor than what they have
"And there were a LOT of operations to the mountains before (which helped overall) but couldn't totally solve the issue" so... Instead you decided technic cleansing was the solution? Putin also thought invasion was the best choice. I am no turk, but maybe trying a peace process would be a choice. I mean, what is the difference between Putin invading Ukraine because "reasons" and Turkey invading because "reasons"?
Dude. You can't say there was a "Kurdistan plans backed by west intelligence" and then say there is no proof, even a link on fucking Google, where you can find all sort of stupid conspiracies. When you claim something as big, the burden of proof is on you. And if all evidence in the ground, says there isn't, well.. Putin says Ukraine is full of nazis, too.
From your own source, "Turkey relied on already existing Syrian rebel factions, SOME of which once received support from the CIA." So? Whatever things those factions did when the CIA was onto them, the CIA was responsible.
What the SNA does today, 2022,and all the ethnic cleansing, rapes and murder they do today, the ones responsible are the ones that control them today, 2022. And, if according to the Turkey's goverment, they are paying the salaries of the SNA, and even using them as mercenaries in Lybia of Armenia, then the ones responsible today is Turkey. And Turkey is responsible, either by action or inaction, of the ethnic cleansing.
"I won't continue this discussion anymore" Peace dude. You are not responsible for what your country does, same way many Russians are not responsible for Putin. I just wish there was more push from turks to avoid so many innocents suffering ethnic cleansing and murder, even as we speak
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The attack was actually a failure. They took control of the jail, but kurds surrounded the jail and ISIS was forced to surrender
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In the last few weeks people say Russian people brainwashed by Putin's propaganda but Western people are not aware they're brainwashed by their ''independent'' media agencies, just like they made to believe that there were chemical weapons in Iraq.
That place is not represent the peace. They're PKK terrorists misspelled as either YPG, PYD or ''freedom fighters'' by USA and its propaganda machine.
Have you ever seen this massacre againts Kurdish people by those ''freedom fighters'' in your media?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Başbağlar_massacre
https://www.reddit.com/r/Turkey/comments/oe1sjd/today_the_anniversary_of_pkks_başbağlar_massacre/
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We are all suffering propaganda. You and me all.
However while many countries designate PKK as terrorist, almost every intelligence service in the west considers the PKK and YPG somehow related, but not the same organization.
Even if that were true, and PKK and YPG were exactly the same, does it justify invading a country and committing ethnic cleansing, and the rapes? I mean, your link is from 1993, almost thirty years ago. The invasion of Syrya was from three years ago.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_occupation_of_northern_Syria
After the Turkish-led forces had captured Afrin District (Afrin Canton) in early 2018, they began to implement a resettlement policy by moving their mostly Arab fighters and refugees from southern Syria into the empty homes that belonged to displaced locals. The previous owners, most of them Kurds or Yazidis, were often prevented from returning to Afrin. Though some Kurdish militias of the SNA and the Turkish-backed civilian councils opposed these resettlement policies, most SNA units fully supported them. Refugees from Eastern Ghouta, Damascus, said that they were part of "an organised demographic change" which was said to replace the Kurdish population of Afrin with an Arab majority. More than 200,000 people fled from Afrin District during the Turkish intervention by March 2018, while 458,000 displaced persons from other parts of Syria were settled in Afrin following the Turkish intervention.
It was reported that Yazidi and other Kurdish women and girls have been kidnapped by the SNA since the occupation of Afrin began in early 2018, either for ransom, rape, forced marriage, or because of perceived links to the Democratic Union Party. It was alleged that many of them were later killed. This activity has been interpreted as part of an Islamist policy of discouraging women from leaving their homes and to remove them from the civic activity they had been encouraged to take part in under the Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria, as well as part of a broader plan to discourage the return of Yazidi and other Kurdish refugees who fled Afrin in 2018
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I don't claim SNA never did anything wrong but in the same time you shouldn't claim PKK/YPG/PYD are freedom fighters. Personally I don't support SNA and Turkish government's policies against Syrian government.
''Even if that were true, and PKK and YPG were exactly the same, does it justify invading a country and committing ethnic cleansing, and the rapes?''
Both of us can't prove whether those happened or not in reality, as those sources claimed. My argument is YPG/PYD are not ''freedom fighters', they're originated from PKK and they're same organizations. Do you know there hasn't been PKK attacks as much as in the past in Turkiye? That's because most of their terrorists are moved into northern Syria and they have been disguise as freedom fighters since then.
Lastly, USA and other countries support them knowingly this truth: https://youtu.be/w-g8RVtYBM4
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The United Nations have teams that investigated. There are hundreds of thousand of kurds refugees being expelled. And the refugees talk about ethnic cleansing, of rapes and abuses, of being kicked out of their homes. If you search the link I sent you, there are multiple sources.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_occupation_of_northern_Syria
If the Turkish authorities themselves are claiming that half a million refugees from all Syria that were in Turkey moved or were moved to the part of Syria it occupies, it stands to reason they moved/were moved into the homes of people that had been forced to leave.
And if the SNA did wrong, according to you, Turkey is legally responsible, since if the power thst occupies the area, according to international law. If the SNA is committing ethnic cleansing, legally Turkey is responsible. And I haven't called anybody freedom fighters. I'm just repeating what the whole world is saying or the links between PKK and YPG
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the kurds part, like in Iraq, the safest place in the region
almost no suicide bombings there (only by outsiders), guess why
ts all about arabs fighting witch each other, the religius war and power, who controls what
sunni vs shia, they are responsible, same goes with iran
and its so ridiculous that USA is to blame
I say it again, there was quiete in kurds part of Iraq and Syria. Till ISIS came, supported by other arabs countries, probab Iran too.
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It's not ''kurds part'', they invaded and exiled all Arabs from there. USA wants a puppet state in the region (what a coincidence that part of Syria has most of the oil plants), they just use them for their interests. Also it's not US' business whether Arabs fight with each other or not.
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Yes, there is no "kurds part". Because Turkey invaded it and kick them out. Almost same history, as your "Cleaning country from Armenians"
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You've triggered by when you see keywords like Turkiye,Turkey, Turkish, Turk and have posted automatically ''Turks bad, here is Armenian genocide'' unrelated to our conversation. I'm not surprised to be honest.
Armenians always come up with this argument since their ancestors tried to backstab their neighbours with the support of Russians but miserably failed. They're butthurt by this and have inferiority complex since then.They can't accept it. Kurds then fought together with Turks in the The Turkish War of Indepence instead helping imperialist invaders like Britain, France, Russia and more.
Most importantly, you should learn this subject by first hand, the first Prime Minister of Armenia, Hovhannes Kajaznuni:
''At the beginning of the Fall of 1914 when Turkey had not yet entered the war but had already
been making preparations, Armenian revolutionary bands began to be formed in Transcaucasia with great
enthusiasm and, especially, with much uproar. Contrary to the decision taken during their general meeting
at Erzeroum only a few weeks before, the A.R.F. had active participation in the formation of the bands and
their future military action against Turkey.
...
The Winter of 1914 and the Spring of 1915 were the periods of greatest enthusiasm and hope for
all the Armenians in the Caucasus, including, of course, the Dashnagtzoutiun. We had no doubt that the
war would end with the complete victory of the Allies; Turkey would be defeated and dismembered, and
its Armenian population would at last be liberated.
We had embraced Russia whole-heartedly without any compunction. Without any positive basis
of fact we believed that the Tzarist government would grant us a more-or-less broad self-government in the
Caucasus and in the Armenian vilayets liberated from Turkey as a reward for our loyalty, our efforts and
assistance.
We had created a dense atmosphere of illusion in our minds. We had implanted our own desires
into the minds of others; we had lost our sense of reality and were carried away with our dreams...''
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From your own source "The Manifesto of Hovannes Katchznouni has been reprinted as it was published by the Armenian
Information Service. Readers should note that the Information Service was made up of enemies of the
Dashnak Party (the Armenian Revolutionary Federation)." Respetfully, even if all you said it's true, it doesn't mean genocide is the answer. If Putin ordered right now a genocide in Ukraine, I bet he could also find quotes here and there to justify it.
A few "revolutionary bands" as you said, doesn't mean commiting genocide as the answer.
Let me repeat: Genocide is wrong. Killing innocents is wrong.
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Absolutely genocide is wrong. I've posted this to back up my argument by first mouth. Of course there had civilians lost their lives as in all wars, but they backstabbed their neighbours by trusting Tzarist Russia and then that plan backfired. They thought they could grab a land from Anatolia where even big imperial forces failed.
There wasn't a systematically killings of innocent civilians, thus it's not a genocide.
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I don't understand why you talk about backstabbing. Was there actually a rebellion? I search Wikipedia, and I don't see any armed struggle. A politician saying there were some "bands" doesn't mean there was a rebellion. Was there any Russian plan? I have heard there was a Turkish politician that just lost a battle, and blamed the Armenians in his army for not fighting good enough. The Armenian army stayed loyal to Turkey, and was the first to be exterminated by Turkey.
Basically every single historian in the world, considers what happened to the Armenians as genocide. And yeah, basically all were innocent civilians Even some turkish historians admitted that it was genocide, and they had trouble with the Turkish authorities because a law of "turkness", or something. Some of them even went to prison, so it makes sense they are afraid to say what the rest of the world say.
Since you use reddit, you can go to askhistorians and ask yourself.
In this link are very detailed answers about the denial of the Armenian genocide by Turkey
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_genocide
Even Turkish authorities back in the day admitted it was genocide. There wAs even a letter from a angry Turkish mayor asking the goverment for money and complaining the Turkish soldiers were dumping so many bodies in the water upstream, that the dam was full, and they were running out of money of explosives to clear the bodies.
He wasn't complaining about the genocide. He was just asking for more money for explosives
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Even the ottoman times, the Afrin area was called by the turks "Sancak of the Kurds". It has always been, since ottoman times, a majority kurd area
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It may be, I haven't claim the opposite. We're discussing whether YPG/PYD are same with PKK or not.
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When every single intelligence agency in the world less Turkey say they are not, well, I tend to trust them. They correctly said the invasion was going to happen, back in octover
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You have to remember that racism is VERY common. Also consider WHO would speak up about such topics? Israel has A LOT of support from the US...
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yeah that's the thing
i really dont get it though, the founding father of US doesnt seems had anything to do with israhell
but now, they BOW to them..
weird
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It's not too weird if you think about the religion connections.
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Huh, I had no idea I'm not allowed to feel compassion for something or someone unless I'm feeling compassion for every single bad thing that's happening right now in the world. Thanks for the info
How hypocritical of me to care about something that I have more of a personal connection to. Shame on me, really
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I guess instead of doing university for a job, what I should do is spend months reading every conflict that has happening or is happening, then look up every single murder that has happened ever since I was born, then check on every other criminal that isn't currently incarcerated, before looking up anything and everything else in the entire world that infringes on my morals. Next, I should erase everything else in my mind except these crimes and morals, before constantly protesting against each and every single thing that has existed that goes against my moral code. Only then can I feel compassion towards those that have, in my moral compass, been severely wronged. Otherwise, if you don't know every single crime that has been committed in the past century, how can you say you feel compassion towards the Palenstinians if you don't know what's going on in Iran with the Kurdish seperation, or the Korean conflict, or the Indo-Pakistani wars?!?!?! Why did OP only mentioned the conflict that's only been around for about 74 years, instead of the Kurdish conflicts that have been going on for over 100 years. Is it because it's okay to sympathize with the Palenstinians, but not the Kurdish?!?!?
Seriously, this is some real double standards here. Should've mentioned all the currently ongoing conflicts around the world that haven't been resolved, then maybe I would've somewhat understood his point
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In my case, and why I care so much about Ukraine is because of the media, it tells you how to feel about certain predigested topics. Its pretty convenient if you dont wanna think too much (or at all). I prefer to play games myself, trying to get into FPV quad flying, so I can just outsource the thinking and simply watch the news to see who I should hate. Two weeks ago I wished death upon the unvaccinated, but now I hate Russians. During the trucker convoy in Canada, I was hating on Nazis, I mean, Nazis are evil incarnated but Neo Nazis in Ukraine are pretty damn great. If you think about it, it makes no sense, so just don`t think.
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I never denied the existence of Nazis outside of Germany and I never implied this in my message, the opposite actually. I did say that it can be confusing when to love or hate them so I let the media let me know which are the bad nazis (Canadians) and the good ones (Ukranians).
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who are you talking about? are you calling selensky (a jew) a nazi?^^
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i just assumed cause you talked about the ukrainian nazis and that was, what putin blamed selensky and co cause he needed a reason to start his war... so who are the nazis in ukraine? and what does this have to do with this war? cause sure, nazis are in every country...
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Oh gotchu. I wasn`t talking about the nazis in context of the war, rather regarding the topic at hand, meaning the double standards. Perhaps you saw the nazi flag during the truckers convoy in Canada, or you may not, but the media (and Trudeau) used this to slander the group as a whole. If you find this disingenuous, I will leave up to you.
When we look at the war in Ukraine, you may or may not have seen the pictures from the Azov battalion, yet the media, (nor Zelensky) is not conflating them with the general population who are against the war. If you find this disingenuous, I will leave up to you.
So to clarify, 1 nazi flag seen in Canada and the whole truckers convoy was considered a right wing offense. Compared to whole organized military battalions of actual neo nazis, the reporting reflects a different story than that of the aforementioned. If you find this disingenuous, I will leave up to you but one would be hard pressed not see the double standard, objectively. Stay safe.
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ah, thank you for your clarification. if i remember right, in german news the canadian truckers didnt get called nazis in general. it was pointed out, that there where nazi symbols shown, but sadly thats in germany on demonstrations against corona actions pretty usual :(
at least we know: not all of them are nazis
about the azov batallion: there seem to be not much positive you can say about them... i can only assume that the ukraine needs them for the moment and cant afford to punish the people who can protect their land :(
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Because the majority of humans are racists. especially the western world. look up their history and see for yourself that it is all war, greed, slavery and racism. yet they pretend to be the pinaccle of civilization and peace. they dont care for others and are hypocrites who will only take action if it has any financial value or fear for themselves.
The USA does and did the exact same thing russia does. israel and china too obviously. yet, noone gave a single fuck. i dont expect the next joe to do something but look at all the governments of the world and the big corporations. suddenly they care. why? because they are afraid for their own. they are afraid it will spread to them. as long as it happened to the brown people and the black people they didnt care. it is really hard not to get cynical from this world. there is no justice, there is no freedom and there is no democracy. all is just pretentious lies to shut up people and control them.
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I don't know about anyone else here...but what makes this different for me is one word: 'brother.' Right up until the Russian army rolled in, Putin kept calling Ukraine and Ukrainians things like 'Little Russia' and 'brothers.' Even now, there are still reports of Putin and Russians calling Ukrainians 'brothers' despite two weeks of heavy fighting. There is a clear and obvious dissonance there and that, for me, is where the horror and disgust really creeps in for me. I cannot help but ask myself and others: is this really how Russia treats its 'brothers'?
China, Israel, Turkey, etc. have done wrong, yes, but I have not heard of any one of them claiming that the people they displaced were friends or family or brothers. The rationales for their actions have almost always cultural, political, or both, and I regrettably know next to nothing about the sociopolitical landscape in those regions thus making it so I don't feel it appropriate for me to weigh in on those topics apart from the obvious excesses. What I do know is how I treat my brother, and I know for a fact that I would never treat him anything close to what I've seen from Russia towards Ukraine. That is all.
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not just that actually
the genocide of MUSLIM Uyghur in china.
the civil war in india and filiphine (i think), it's local vs MUSLIM
Palestine, Iran, etc, which also had MUSLIM
imigration of MUSLIM in europe ( the odd one is in denmark, the goverment stance is really weird). btw i'm not talking about those illegal ones, normal imigrants with proper procedure!!
and many more and all include MUSLIM!!!
the most common problem above was, MUSLIM is in the minority. if it's not then it's WAR
btw don't get me wrong i'm Muslim.
i know those, but i can't do anything either...
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The world has always been like this and nations always had double standards, we haven't yet moved beyond this. A superpower will have no problem with an unjust and tyrannical government as long as it is on the same page with them. I understand that this feels bad but the best thing we can do is to try to understand how the system of foreign policies works as it is a very complicated matter and our emotions as individuals means nothing in the big picture.
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As I have long stated, humans are inherently evil and can not be redeemed. They do not actually care about anyone but their closest associates... Nothing new here. We are war like tribalistic animals, which frankly world would be better off without.
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As for me, there isnt much coverage to talk about. I live in the other side of those world and the wars have been going for a long time as far as i know. The only thing that i know (and can help) about those are when itch released a bundle for palestinian, and that's about it. I'm pretty much against war in every corner of the world, but there is nothing that i can do if i dont even know what was happening.
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Casebook example of "whatabaoutism"
Invasion of Ukraine doesn't diminish the crimes that have happened around the world. And neither does these crimes diminish whats going on in Ukraine. Be my guest - educate people on the war crimes in countries you (and others here) are referring to. But not at expense of shitting on people for caring about what's going on less then 1000km from most of us.
Of course there is a bit of hypocrisy in all this, but people of course will feel more compassion towards bad shit going on nearby and will care secondly about something thats happening further away. Just like suicide bombings in EU get more attention then those in middle east (just like there was a bombing some week ago.. everyone forgot about that fast), but where are you then ? Why hasn't Emirates intervened to help out neighboring countries or Saudi Arabia ? Why aren't you taking in refugees but EU has to ? Constant shitting on EU and our indifference is really a way to go.
Europeans are firsthand gathering resources and driving to Ukraine to give stuff over. Rally teams from Latvia have already bought, fixed up and sent 20+ or even more SUVs and vans to Ukraine and donated them. 15 are en route today.
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Companies that produce , distribuite and sell Weapons,make profit with war,
and they are the most rich in the world,
these people corrupt\persuade the mind\think\brain of leaders in politicians and military (most of time with money or objects) to attack\dowar to others countries.
These people is people heartless,that not care that innocent\civilians people die,+ war happen + they is rich and happy.
Top of all this,there is another part of rich in our countries,that work about market\forex that make very big quantity of money with wars,for example if ruble go down 50% value they buy billions of it when is down,and when war finish they exchange it back to usd\eur and make double money profit or things like this,this is only 1 example,or they use export of people escape from war for make them work at underpriced salary etc. for example there is "agency\office" use ukraine woman for take care old woman in europe or america or russia etc. and pay them 10 times less than normal salary etc.
So all war is wrong,all people that attack other is wrong,but this is not the problem or the root,if we want to fix this we must fix first the business that is back to it and make it happen ¯_(ツ)_/¯
so war is only a "Cover",the real problem is the money\business\profit back to it,reason why war happen.
Same reason why we see thief kill people for stolen money etc.
For my opinion it's wrong the system how we live that is based on economy,would be better a system where all people share all,without "ownership" and all help others,i help you,you help me,we use all the same things,etc. without money,without ownership ,without business,war.
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While the rest of the world does not hesitate for a moment to name Ukrainians as heroes defending their land, Palestinians have been named terrorists for doing the same thin
To be clear, Ukrainians haven't started bombing Chinese restaurants in the US because China supports Russia. That would be terrorism.
Firing on tanks invading your country is indeed "defending your land".
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You are playing the racism card without knowing me at all. Nothing I said is racist. I was defining an act of terrorism. I did not even mention Palestinians or implicated them.
I was saying what Ukrainians was doing was not terrorism.
As I mentioned in my other post, I am not backing Israel in their treatment of Palestine.
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Uhm, there was e.g.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxim_restaurant_suicide_bombing
and e.g. Hamas strapped bombs even to children. Which isn't to say that everything Israel did was good. But, to name another example, even if IRA perhaps had a point against UK reaching as far as Northern Ireland, them having specifically targeted civilians, such made them quickly someone to not care about. And when you have someone such as IRA, or Hamas, even getting elected, do you seriously expect anyone to be like: "Oh Israel, poor Hamas has a blockade on them in Gaza. Why don't you lift it so they can shoot at you some more in the name of the Palestinian people?" ?
And I am aware that there is also e.g. Fatah. But the "Palestinian struggle" seems more often than not getting hijacked by some extremists, who are usually pushing a very one-sided version of it all. And that simply isn't how diplomacy works.
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but why is it okay for the Israeli government to persecute the Palestinians?
It's not. Don't get confused between what people think, and what governments (and media linked directly or indirectly to them) pretend to think, based on their geopolitical interest.
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Don't point out this fact and don't say anything about any USA/NATO invasions otherwise stupid brainless double standard people will start to black list you. I said the same thing on a thread and now 72 people blacklisted me for speaking the truth but i don't care.
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Because only you know the truth and everything you say is correct. You are such a genius... How come you are not a president of the world as well ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZuktUfF0nE <- literally your comment.
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Now i am not the only one speaking the truth. People are starting to speak and pointing out the facts like the irish MP and some Indian media channels.
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I'm sorry to hear that whataboutism is unpopular. If you are interested in and passionate about recent world history and world politics maybe you should look for deeper, more thorough sources. Even Wikipedia can be a good start to get the basics down. Of course lots of things are up for interpretation but if you don't even know some very basic facts then you are missing the foundation on which you could build a a more nuanced world view.
It's interesting how sure of themselves people can be while passing off 'facts' that can be disproven with ten seconds of googling. In the last few days I've read claims that the USA created the Taliban, installed Saddam and Gaddafi and many more similar stuff. I understand why to many the US is the big bad / a negative force in this world but with 'facts' like that you discredit your whole opinion.
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Don't you have anything else to do?? plz don't miss guide people and stop stalking me.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lv4coLjCR8s i am illiterate plz can you explain this video i got very low IQ???
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First of all, you're only assuming that most people care about one and not the other. This is not necessarily true.
Before you ask, no I'm not a big fan of Israel and no I don't have a problem with Muslims (or Jews)
Now, if you're looking for an actual reason why most governments don't enact sanctions on Israel as they do on Russia, it's really simple.
Regardless how any of them feels about Israel's occupation of Palestine, Israel hasn't shown a pattern of invading neighboring countries.
Russia has. Especially under Putin.
So yeah basically nobody is really worried about a tiny country going on an invasion rampage of Europe... But if you look closely now you can see most countries in Eastern Europe and quite a few in Western Europe sweating.
So no it's not about racism. And it may be about double standards but mostly for selfish reasons, as most things are.
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Isn't it more about antisemitism tag most apply if you dare to say anything(not just pure hate) against most Israel depending?
Another factor is the shame of the world regarding jews. So how could do most countries say something in this matter?
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Once again, I am not defending what Israel is doing, far from it. I have actually been called an antisemite myself for criticizing Israel's actions in Palestine.
But the truth is, governements act within the confines of their selfish interests. Most governments have been called worse and in the end, if their interests are protected, they don't really care.
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Sadly the world isn't evil and good only. There are many things belonging to both at the same time. But people just want to 2 versions: Evil and good. While it would make things easier, at the same time it can't be fair. So I don't give a f* about those straight up calling something evil. Especially just hating is nonsense. But who want to know such a thing?
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At least with DC avengers(and deadpool?) There isn't a just being good - all other being the evil ones - Try.
Nah we are all more or less evil. This is mostly due how nature works. If it wouldn't be for society, ithe world would be way more 'me alone the rest can go die' reality.
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At least with DC avengers(and deadpool?) There isn't a just being good - all other being the evil ones - Try.
Most comic books movie/tv adaptation still lean heavy on the good vs evil trope when compared with the comics (I will never forgive Fox for neutering Magneto, who was a terrorist, the way they did when Fassbender took over from McKellen) although at least there are a few redeeming "villains" like Thanos whose motivations are a little more realistic than most.
Nah we are all more or less evil.
Yep. And that's why we try to convince ourselves we are not by worshiping the hero/villain routine.
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Bo0Mz:
europe opened its borders to refugees leaving the middle east and north africa
the result was terrorist, rape and acid attacks skyrocketting all across europe
S T A G G E R I N G racism.
A permanent ban isn't close to enough, but hopefully you'll at least get that much.
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Biased facts are, yes.
Attackers of 2015 in France, for example, where (almost all) citizens of EU countries (FR, BE), and lead by nationals of these countries.
Rape and acid attacks didn't skyrocket as you say. Isolated facts are not a global trend.
And PsychoApeMan is right, your post is indeed racist "about a certain part of the world" - your own words, not mine.
Anyway, I'm quite sure that you are not open to debate, so don't feel forced to reply...
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What Saint said.
I'm also curious how you already felt that you could judge the result of Ukrainian refugees on crime rates etc.
The war is two weeks old, so it seems like your judgment is purely based on your expectations. Also known as racism.
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disappointment is nothing new. maybe you are right, maybe not. future will tell
what i found very telling is that the people of poland (not talking about the government here) were absolutely willing and able to help the ukrainian refugees the moment they showed up at the border. all that while the polish government has resisted allowing refugees into the country on EU level for years. i wonder how that comes?
maybe it's because people are more willing to take their chances with welcoming women & children than cowardly men.
i have the highest respect for the polish people and everybody else helping the ukrainian refugees in this time of need and i firmly believe it is not asking too much from the european countries to keep women & children safe while the ukrainian men (and also women) fight for the very existence of their nation.
yeah i know. the opinion police is on it's way to stage an outrage. so what? i don't have two fucks to rub together.
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that is quite interesting. so the polish government only opposes immigration from certain "non-european" areas?
in fact i know very little about the details. the only air time poland gets during my daily dose of 15 minutes german mainstream news is when the EU and polish government are going at each other again because of something the PIS party did or said. that is literally the only news about poland ever. apart from the current ukrainian refugee situation obviously.
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I lived in moslim region for 11 years in China and I have many moslim friends, they cook delicious food. It is not about china and moslim at all... its about Xinjiang independent. Too many US military bases surrounding china, and china's government does not allow more in Xinjing. Civilians there are the victims of political purpose between china and US.
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too many US bases surround china so china needs to enslave an ethnic minority in concentration camps? tell me how that makes sense? don't spread propaganda
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So it's really inhuman that Vladimir Putin is invading Ukraine and persecuting its people, fine, but why is it okay for the Israeli government to persecute the Palestinians? Everyone who got something to say against the president of Russia, are they all located witin 500 miles of the war inflicted areas? Why then turn a blind eye when it comes to Israel's oppression against the Palestine and its people which has been going on for decades?
I personally know a Palestinian family that fled to Lebanon, got Dominican Republic passport and settled in the UAE because of the oppression of the Israeli government; a colleague who lost his older sister in the bombings of Syria and never got her dead body; a friend who, after graduation, left for his homeland Yemen and his whereabouts are still unknown to this day. Ignorants who refer to this post as whataboutism are generally opinionated and will only repeat what the corrupt media shows them. At least I don't sound like a broken record. I ain't here to divert attention from Ukraine but no one race or group or country deserves more sympathy than the other just because they are in europe. Butthurts can go ahead and blacklist me, see if I care.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mu2uI0gZD-c
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