Read description and answer what you think
Wow, Leadwerks Game Engine is 87% cheaper @Russia ($3.24 for $100 CV :P)
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wow, average salary in our region is 217-290$ in month.
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The problem is that you don't have to be from Russia to make a giveaway for a game locked for Russia, so people can exploit these games by getting them from russian traders.
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Hmm, so it is big problem really. Money take over :(
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I didn't mean to be rude, just pointing out that you got full CV from these giveaways even if you paid <5% of its value.
It is hard to make a perfect system, since anyone can exploit the CV system by buying a bunch of cheap russian games and gettings tons of CV (that's why I avoid regional giveaways).
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So SG need any... i don't know, protect system? Or steam? From not russians. Or on steamgifts only russian region can gifting russian games. We have more low price from more low salaries... And with this situation, cold war Russia>America>Europa>almost Whole world.
It offtopic, but i want peace, but if politicans wants, so let them fight.
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you would still be getting 100$ USD CV for your cheap russian price Many caountries have many different salaries - but SG caounts CV in USD. Ok - your country has shitty salaries - but consider this - Bulgaria, Macedonia etc have the same average wage - yet they already have to pay Euro prices. And you propose the system where russians get hundreds of free CV because they have shitty salaries - and other countries that have shitty salaries gets nothing even if they earn the same as you do? It would be even less fair.
Only fair solution is to treat everyone equally - no matter where they live. Otherwise we would need to have dozens of SG tiers depending on country. Because even in western countyries there are massive differences - from 600-700 EUR avg salary in central Europe to 2-3k EUR in most of western countries to freaking 6k EUR in Liechtenstein.
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No, I was outraged that the majority voted for "fair".
I think main injustice in "a little cheat". When i see bundlelist and don't find there game, that i give, i know about receiving bonus. But if it bundled After it bundled and my giveaway counting as bundled, it totally confused me. So it main injustice for me and because it i don't want give nonbundled games... Cause i can give them only with discount. In other cases only bundles...
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you still have many many games that even with your discounts will not be below 95% off thus will not go to bundle list.
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I don't undrestand, i created 75% product and it later added in bundlelist. On steamdb it -90% from US, but NOT 95. So why?
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75% relatred to your store. But this site is related to US store, related to US store you bought product discounted over 96%
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So yeah, it more low price.
But where you can compare? You say about 96%, on steamdb i see -90%, but how you calculate it? In mind or with the tool?
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google? plus maybe windows calculator if you have problems with math :D:
You see your game being now avaiable for 162 RUB - so easy search. Now easy math: 1-(2.33/100)=1-0.0233=0,9767 aka your game is discounted by 97.67% compared to US price, it's more than 95% so it may get bundled.
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i live in "central europe" which is germany in my opinion and the average is way higher than 600/700 per month :D
count central europe not as a western country?
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that's what i was wondering too...if that's the case..that's not very fair, since only russia tends to get the real cheap prices..despite other countries having low incomes as well.
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It was explained many times: we have really low wages. We can't afford buying games for US prices.
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As for other countries, I don't know why they don't get lower prices and I wouldn't have minded if they did, but it doesn't mean that Russia should pay more.
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I beg to differ...Russia should pay the same as other low wage countries...and if they are getting them lower, which they are..the other countries should too...which they aren't...so actually it really is extremely unfair that they get lower prices than the other countries..I agree they should be lower, but all those countries should as well, and since they AREN'T......Well, I just honestly don't see how anyone can say it's fair or logical really.
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I think you two are in agreement with each other :p
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Yes, it is unfair that people in other countries with low wages pay more and as I said, I think they should get lower prices too, but why should Russians pay more because of this? It doesn't make sense. Instead of wanting everyone to be satisfied you want one side to suffer/be punished because of other side's struggles. It doesn't sound fair to me. Also Steam prices depend on the purchasing power in regions, so they are set with due regard for people's ability to buy goods. Do you think Newell is in some kind of conspiracy with Putin or something? Why would he set lower prices for Russia with no reason? You should really be glad that your income is higher than that of most of us in Russia, but you're complaining that prices in your country are not as low as here.
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It's same here, wages from 140-190e but prices are high. I can buy 2 gta v and starve to death. So why region game don't give low cv or even better separate cv. You can win normal ga and region ga but rest of us only normal. Im happy for you having low region prices but it's unfair for rest of us for ~15e you can get lvl 7 cv (contributor value) but you contribute 0 to others, only for your region. So Global gcv-0 Region rcv-7. Fair?
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Add on top of it "public GA CV" and "group GA CV" to don't have to give games to people who are in 1:1 ratio groups and never gave anything to whole community etc.
It'd be super complex and hard to understand.
(And I'm curious how list of levels and numbers of people on certain level looks like after region restricted GA were implemented)
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Excuse me, let's use GTA V as example. Do you understand that $28.74 for Russians is the same as $59.99 for Americans in terms of the amount of money they can spend on a game relatively painlessly for their wallet? So yes, it's fair to get the same cv. As for countries like Romania, Moldova, etc I am for lowering their prices, but it's not up to me.
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Also the value of the Russian ruble fell more than by 50% during last 11 months, so we pay even more for games on foreign sites and the only fair and affordable pricing for us is in Steam.
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Yes i am too for lowering prices for countries like Romania, Moldova, etc. But when i create GA everyone can enter and when you create GA only people from that region can enter, 90% of user CAN NOT enter. And you want to tell me that is fair?
The situation here last for 25 years. You now have insight what is like so put that aside.
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Actually if you look at my profile, most of my giveaways are not region-restricted and many users from Russia create non-restricted giveaways as well.
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Region-restricted giveaways were created to prevent users from receiving games that they can't activate and to let users from restricted regions raise their levels like everyone else, not to give them an advantage. It's not like we like these restrictions in the first place. Please, try to put yourself in the shoes of these people before resenting.
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I didn't talking about YOU as 1 person, i was talking in general.
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And about resenting, did you put yourself in everyone else's shoes?
You (in general) enter everyones giveaway, but you blacklist everyone else and get full cv for doing that!
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So you compare restricted giveaways which are here only because of Steam's policy to voluntary blacklisting? What about people who contribute only to private groups and get full cv, don't it piss you off?
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And when Americans, Europeans and other people from devepoled countries could buy games for Russian prices while having 4 times higher wages it was fair, right?
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So you don't agree, making region restricted ga and getting full cv is unfair?
On steam you buy game for 5e, i pay 25e (its ok for me, not my fault we don't have region prices) but you don't get 5e in cv you get 25. On top of that only some people can enter.
You have privilege to buy game cheaper but you want full cv for doing that.
You want to be equal with other developed countrie but you pay 2e for 100e in cv.
And yes i don't like private groups getting full cv it should be regulated with number of entries. Lower entries lower % of value. Most of that groups want high chance of winning a game so cv is plus they get.
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As I already said, our prices equal prices in other regions, because our purchasing power is lower. If you want cheaper prices, convince your government to lower average wage for your country. If you don't understand/don't want to accept this, I consider further discussion pointless.
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It is pointless... First you say your "prices equal prices in other regions, because our purchasing power is lower", then "If you want cheaper prices, convince your government to lower average wage for your country". So why don't your convince your government to give you higher salary? As i said before i'm glad you have lower prices!!!
Tell me is this fair:
- Do you think people like to pay more
- Get 5-10 times lower cv
- Can't enter your ga
Just answer to 1,2,3 do you think people like that, answer with simple yes or no, nothing more nothing less
And i know you have lower purchasing power.
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Don't you understand that I meant not literally "equal", but equal with due regard for an average wage and purchasing power in regions? I already explained it all and not only me, so don't really want to continue this conversation. Also it has nothing to do with people liking to pay more or less, it doesn't depend on them. Have a nice one.
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Point why i mention blacklisting (since you did't put yourself in everyone else's shoes) is "when i create GA everyone can enter and when you create GA only people from that region can enter, 90% of user CAN NOT enter" Just a simple comparation so you can see how others see.
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If you don't like the rules of this site or Steam policy, you can stop using these sites. Users from restricted regions didn't invent them.
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As i said before i'm glad steam added region pricing for poor countries, I don't use sites if i don't like majority of rules. And i never said users from restricted regions invented rules.
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And what? Discounts will be on all games. So all games will be bundled and have 15%?
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Do all games go on sale for 95% off? No...
It would be nice if you'd get full value if you have a steam GIFT, but not gonna happen, how are you going to verify it?
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Probably yes. Sometimes discounts make greater difference than bundles do. You know those games for 9 cents right. I am not a fan of it, but if Steam will discount something more than 95% SG marks it bundled.
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Very cheap games can be add in bundled, but Eidos Anthology? It not cheap. I feel confused now.
But if 95%, i agree for bundled.
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You can use Enhanced Steam and see if something was on big discount before :)
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I have it, i see january 2015, but can't find discount, it was 95%?
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I see only 8-9 days of history... Don't used this before.
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Well, that 200 $ pack was actually sold in 30~$. So its easy to sit on the pack and gift it once it goes back to full price.
Did you spent 200$ just to gift it? I doubt so, so the admins. Hence the bundled tag.
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I think games have to get ~95% of a discount to get added to the bundle list without being bundled, but it also looks like the game costs 1/3 of the US price in the Russian store, so buying it from the Russian store when it was 85% off would equate to it being 95% off the base price.
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So it bad. I think sg need system a little spying (not like a windows 10) for checking games. Or other system, i don't know.
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What would spyware solve since it cannot actively track the gift going from steam to your account to the other's account. This is more problematic when buying keys from 3rd party retailers. This is the best solution possible and you are just annoyed. I understand it but this has gone long enough.
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So on sg user can add key or gift. So, i mean gifts actually.
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It's not to add gifts. It's to give option of not putting the key right away and still make the GA. you won't give the gift through SG, it's through Steam.
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What you think about this injustice?
Imo, It's not injustice !
I had paid 1 $ for tier one of i-don't-remember-which-bundle that included Fallen Enchantress: Legendary Heroes and received 6 $ after it marked as received !
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SG can't tell where you got your game from. There is no way for the site to know if you got it in a bundle or from the Steam store. edit: oops, Cj already said that, above
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SG can see your inventory (can add this) and gifts there.
When i add new GA, i can choose key or gift. Why we need it in this case if all is equal?
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I'm not sure I would want SG to have a tool to check my inventory. I don't agree with having as you call it 'a little spying' just to get full cv. Anyway, my inventory is set to friends only, and the default setting is to hide gifts from everyone, I believe, so such a tool probably wouldn't work very well.
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Steamgifts can't see how much we actually paid for games... :) But what if it could... :)
Imagine how different things would be if your "Level" counted the money you paid, and not the store price. Sure it would require magic, but let's pretend... :)
We wouldn't need a bundle list at all. If you buy a $1 bundle, you get $1 CV, no matter how much the games cost @ Steam. And if you pay the equivalent of $3.24 for a gift, you only get $3.24 CV. I'll bet a lot of "generous" people would suddenly be "Level 1" ... :)
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And you would definitely be king of SG, fiftykyu! Or at the very least, a strong contender...
While I'll be a street-sweeper at most.
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Not me, all I give is bundle leftovers and 95% discount stuff. :) So I'll have to apply for the job of apprentice sweeper... :)
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If you bought 4-games bundle and gave away only some of them, then how would CV be counted?
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It's magic, don't think about it too much. :) Somehow it would all work out. :)
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i'd be lv0 :O
not that i scammed anyone or stole their gifts while hacking their accounts, no no...
disappears
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My suggestion : You must check to know if a game already added to bundle-list or not. If not, buy it as steam gift from store for full CV .
I can understand what you mean by steam store price but it's not something possible for a site like SG with a lot of users who gifting games every day and just a few staff members [ 3 or 4 support and 3 mods ] to receive gifter's gift and after approval send it to winner like a post office !
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Hmm, I'm tempted to say:
Maybe there should be a special "Buy 1 level!" button for all the people who try to cheese things, so we don't get all these threads about their precious CV and Bundle List and it's not fair blah blah blah etc. :)
But that would be mean, so I'll not say it. :) Oops! :)
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So, uh, the reason that games, even those bought from the steam store, count as bundled after they have been in a bundle is because it would be extremely difficult to verify that it was not a bundle key. It's to protect CV from people who exploit bundles. Does it suck to buy something on Steam and have it be bundled? Yes. But it's not the end of the world.
Also, many times that packs are "bundled", it's because they were cheaper in another region (i.e. 96% off ROW in CIS or something like that) and frequently exploited.
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What sucks is when they take games you gave away before they were bundled, and then deduct your points after their bundled XP that's what I find wonky, although, I guess it keeps high leveled users giving stuff away, so they can keep their level XD
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I think it cause "money take over"... past must be unchangedm it is justice in that case.
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You know, if i added gane before it is bundlelisted, i will receive full price or only 15% as bundle?
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And if i create GA today and later today it is added to bundled?
P.S. Nice profile, added to WL.
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If you create GA today and later it will be added to bundle-list, your GA probably will be bundled too (not sure if SG only looks at date, or if they check it down to hours)..
If you give Skyrim today and it will be in bundle tomorrow, you keep full CV.
BUT! There's a game called "WHATEVER". WHATEVER was in bundle in January, but SG didn't noticed that for one reason or another (they are only humans too).
When they add WHATEVER to bundle-list, every giveaway for WHATEVER made since January will lose their CV down to 15%.
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I seen what i receive 15% for GAs, that i create after making sure it nonbundled. But they added it to bundled after a few hours! iI mean that. Totally unfair. I should kept it. Cause it not my fault, cause i checked bundle-games.
And thanks for writing!
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Like I said, SG is working thanks to humans. They can't spend 24/7 by PCs and look for bundles and games that get dirty cheap in some regions.
If you see game is for $4.99 while in US it's sold for $100, then it will be bundled soon. Nobody will give you $100 CV for $4.99.
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there's a couple games that aren't givjng me the CV they were before :/ maybe a bug then? Who knows~
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в помощь
http://www.steamgifts.com/bundle-games
http://www.sgcv.tk/
порой помогают что не так с контрибуцией и что попало в бандл. иногда может попасть что угодно даже задним числом
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Да был я там. Я просто не ожидал, что дорогой набор игр будет в списке бандловых игр. Это как удар в спину.
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согласен что очень хорош набор. но много из этого набора попадало в бандл. вот такая загагулина. а источник магазин стим или какой то сайт с бандла в таком похоже случае не учитывается и нет разницы. так же вроде влияют скидки какие были на игру. что то читал в описании к сайту с левелами в хелпе.
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самого-то этого набора нигде не было в бандлах...
ну да ладно, неприятно, но переживу. смотреть буду впредь всегда. приятно дарить, но хочется и ответа получать. А то список желаемого больше на высоких уровнях разыгрывается, а 7 побед за 2 года это почти рекорд )
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007 Джеймс Бонд и адмагеддон бандла от деаделика так же не было в бандле. только частично игры от даеделика были в бандле. видать злоупотребление пользователей интересными предложениями сказывается.
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Ага. Сволочи на самом деле. Это их вина, что они вовремя не вносят, я не должен из-за них страдать зря.
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Я вот когда была возможность затарился очень дешевыми ключами Silent Hill: Homecoming, и раздал почти все здесь, получил 5 уровень. Спустя пару месяцев у саппорта наконец дошли руки добавить ее в список бандлов, и мой уровень упал с 5 на 3ий. У меня тоже тогда конкретно припекло от такого удара, и я написал здесь на форуме про "нечестность" такого подхода. Но с тех пор уже привык что 95% игр и паков здесь считаются не в полную стоимость, и просто раздаю игры когда есть возможность. Чтобы узнавать прямо в стимовском сторе, какая игра сколько раз была в бандлах и прочую инфу, ставь Enhanced Steam и сайт https://steamdb.info/
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так ты поменьше говна с читерной контрибуцей раздавай, может тогда не придется топики на форуме создавать с нытьем : ) и кстати, люди с зарплатой в 200 баксов не покупают себе 2к игр в стиме и не раздают тут игры для набивания уровней.
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Справедливости ради отмечу, что Eidos Anthology это все же далеко не говно))
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Что? Так много грязных слов? Читерская контрибуция? Нытье? Я на бандлах больше заработаю. И так просадил дохрена на это.
Игры у меня в среднем по 20-25 рублей, поэтому за два года накопилось. Много вообще халявных, потому что много карточек было. Не знаешь, помалкивай. Не разжигай конфликт.
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помалкивай? накупил никому не нужной фигни с ценой в 150 р и контрибуцией в 100 баксов, а как лавочку прикрыли - начал ныть.. что всю группу слезами залил, что тут начал : ) и самое забавное - прикрывать все это дело маленьким доходом населения ; )
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Действительно, куда мне до Ваших 70 раздач, так далеко... Зарплаты в крае действительно небольшие.
А теперь я бы не хотел это обсуждать, мне уже все стало понятно. Удачи :)
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раз ты об этом написал:
Real CV for Sent Gifts on account Dicur3x : 1428.45 $
Real CV for Sent Gifts on account puffpuffpass : 1444.54 $
куча бандл-игр, дешевые паки в стиме... действительно, куда мне до Ваших раздач : )
удачи
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Первый адекватный комментарий.
Ну, я вот в последнее время создал несколько раздач и вижу, что бесполезно создавать небандловые. Ибо потом их сделают бандловыми и рейтинг снизится. Так я же не стремился к 10 уровню, а просто пассивно раздавал ключики. Тут вот решил немного улучшить статус, хотя бы до 8, если не до 9 и раздать что-то небандловое. Гта 5 - подобные раздачи раздавать у меня нет возможности, только то, что со скидкой. А тут оказывается, что это все заносят в список бандлов. Да и система "изменения прошлых раздач" конечно веселая. Конечно я в шоке.
А тут еще появляются некоторые личности и пытаются окунуть с головой в компост зачем-то, отзываясь яростно о вполне неплохих продуктах, обо мне, о том, что я якобы лгу о доходах и прочее, и прочее.
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я о тебе ничего плохого не писал o_O извини, если чем-то обидел. просто меня злит, когда люди раздают игры не ради того, чтобы порадовать человека, а тупо ради повышения уровней. тем более это легко можно совмещать.
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Ну там были сразу агрессивные слова о моих раздачах и о другом немного, но сейчас не суть.
Вообще-то, если бы я хотел повыситься, изначально бы не раздавал бандловые игры, зная про их очень ограниченную стоимость, а сразу бы раздавал такие. Просто мне тоже хочется выиграть. У тебя вон побед сколько, 200 почти. Я же не участвую во всем подряд, как правило, а обычно в списке желаемого, в массовых раздачах, а также в некоторых AAA.
И вот, чтобы было больше шансов, решали пару уровней поднять так. Потому что потом все будут высокого уровня и у меня опять же будут равные шансы со всеми. Так что вот и начал немного по группам ходить, вступать и уровень повышать, тк. набил 6-й уровень почти только бандловыми играми, тем более, что немало среди них и неплохих, просто они по сниженной цене продавались. И почти все из победителей получали лично ключ от меня им на почту, вместо того, чтобы заходить самим сюда и смотреть на сайте.
Так что не надо говорить, что я тут как пиявка, просто каждый человек не может постоянно давать, ему нужно и получать. У меня это сравнительно немного (как писал выше - вишлист и несколько игр вне него).
Надеюсь, все ок?
Не нужно больше ни на кого так агрессивно наезжать, особенно не разобравшись.
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слушай, мне реально все равно, кто и что раздает. или не раздает. дело каждого. а вот тебя куда-то понесло вообще не в те края)) ты видимо вообще не понял, о чем я тебе говорил. а резко среагировал я вот на это:
"Ага. Сволочи на самом деле. Это их вина, что они вовремя не вносят, я не должен из-за них страдать зря."
на этом я пожалуй остановлюсь. удачи в поисках справедливости
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Кому-то стоит определиться:
"просто меня злит, когда люди раздают игры не ради того, чтобы порадовать человека, а тупо ради повышения уровней. тем более это легко можно совмещать."
Ну дык, по справедливости выходит, что должен оставаться рейтинг прежний, вот и все. Посмотрел - игры не было в списке бандловых. Раздал - появилась, получил меньше, чем было обещано.
Это как если бы человек купил бмв, в документах в магазине бы значилось, что 300 л.с., а на самом деле 200. Он приходит в магазин,а там уже тоже изменено на 200. Тут любой был бы недоволен.
Спасибо, удачи в раздачах )
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Мы не можем добавлять игры в бандл-список сразу же, как они получают такие высокие скидки. Бандл-списком занимается один человек, он реагирует на информацию, поступающую от пользователей сайта. Понятно, что такие популярные вещи, как новый Humble Bundle, будут внесены в список довольно быстро (обычно не позже суток после начала продажи бандла). Но вот как быть с массовыми раздачами 007 Legends, которая продавалась с огромной скидкой в России, и которую многие пользователи использовали для накрутки уровня? Это продолжалось несколько месяцев, пока, наконец, ситуация не была устранена.
Это их вина, что они вовремя не вносят
Все очень просто - мы будем добавлять игры в бандл-список быстрее, если пользователи сайта будут нам о таких случаях сообщать.
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Прошу прощения за такие слова, но меня глубоко возмутило все это, что из-за этого и почти ничего не получил, и пришлось новые отменить, что не сайт, но меня не с лучшей стороны показывает. Ибо то же самое могу получить если буду раздавать бандловые, а так немало потратил (бюджет имеет место) и еще такое произошло.
А разве нельзя этот процесс как-то автоматизировать? Синхронизировав с ценами steam, скажем, когда обнаружит высокую скидку, сравнит с долларовой ценой и добавит в список бандловых.
А то мне писали, объясняли (http://www.steamgifts.com/go/comment/RdncfYn), но я так и не понял какие все же потом добавляются, потому что все так запутанно. Там вроде и нет 95%, но все равно добавили.
Скажите тогда какие имею право создавать раздачи, будучи уверенным, что не буду за них оштрафован?
P,S. Про 007 Legends: не видел чтобы она продавалась за копейки... В регионе была не доступна, а на сайтах типа plati.ru была не дешевой. Думал тоже разок раздать, но хорошо, что не стал.
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На данный момент действует правило - мы добавляем игры в бандл-список, если пользователи сайта могут купить эту игру меньше, чем за 5% ее долларовой стоимости в Steam, т.е, со скидкой в 95%. Так как ваш уровень на сайте начисляется исходя из долларовых цен в Стиме, естественно, что при расчете вашего уровня все цены на игры в разных регионах должны сравниваться с долларовыми.
Допустим, я обнаружил, что Steam-ключ 007 Legends можно купить на одном из сайтов (не в Steam) всего за 60 руб. Игра убрана из Steam, никогда не была в бандле, я раздаю ее на сайте и за 60 руб (ок. $1) получаю $50 к уровню. Я раздаю 10 копий игры. Потратив 10 долларов, я поднял уровень на 500*. Все в рамках правил? Да. Справедливо по отношению к другим пользователям сайта? Не очень.
Каково решение проблемы? На данный момент - добавлять такие игры в бандл-список ($1 из $50 - это 98% скидки). Делается это с опозданием (по указанным выше причинам) и вручную, потому что автоматизировать этот процесс невозможно. Во-первых, невозможно отслеживать в авторежиме все интернет-магазины, торгующие играми, во всех странах мира, согласитесь. Во-вторых, даже если мы попробуем отслеживать цены хотя бы в Steam, сервис SteamAPI регулярно выдает цены с ошибками - у игр пропадают, увеличиваются или уменьшаются цены. А это значит, что игры будут постоянно добавляться в бандл-список по ошибке.
Появится ли другое решение проблемы? Возможно. Но до тех пор, если уж мы имеем систему уровней, нужно как-то бороться с попытками эту систему обмануть.
* EDIT: без учета 10% сокращения за каждую копию после пятой.
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Будем смотреть значит, чтобы не было 95% скидки. Неужели про это где-то было написано, а я не знал?
P.S. Спасибо за инфу о цене, раньше такой не видел.
Ну, все магазины не нужно, достаточно автоматизированного стим-магазина, а с бандлов, к примеру, можно уже вручную вводить.
Ну удаление из бандл-листа можно включить в таком случае, если это возможно, если была ошибка с ценой... Хотя понимаю, что труднее реализовать, чем самому все добавлять
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Так в чем проблема взять в саппорт чуть больше людей, чтобы списком занимался не один, а хотя бы 2-3 человека? Уже давно хотел спросить, да не было повода
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Это вопрос к администратору сайта, тут я сказать ничего не могу. Могу лишь предположить, что это вызвано требованием быть постоянным в любых решениях, касающихся этого списка.
Сейчас списком занимается 1 человек, но он же несет за него полную ответственность. Он знает, когда и почему добавил каждую игру в этот список и применяет к каждой игре одни и те же критерии при выборе, добавлять ее или не добавлять. Если списком будет заниматься несколько человек, появляются расхождения во мнении. Один решит, что надо добавить в список GTA5, потому что в России она стоила пол-доллара, второй решит, что не надо, потому что распродажа длилась очень непродолжительное время.
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SleepyCat
можно спросить, почему Shadow Warrior: Special Edition с 4 ноября 2014 в бандловом списке ?
та фишка с купоном + скидкой на Special Edition никак не распространялась(не на отдельное DLC, не на сам пак Special Edition)... там была базовая 75% скидка
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Дата обновлена.
Купить Special Edition в России меньше, чем за 5% от долларовой цены, можно было в конце ноября, когда цена на SE опустилась на девяносто процентов.
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Cпасибо за все разъяснения! Было бы неплохо публиковать изменения в этом списке.
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Их можно увидеть здесь: http://sgtools.tk/lastbundled
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Just a random observation of mine: it's somewhat funny that the opposing sides of the discussion seem largely divided over regional lines... and you are on the wrong side ;)
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I'd prefer to see the CV system gone entirely. It causes a lot of problems, arguably more than it solves.
Or at least try different replacement systems - there were a lot of options discussed during the beta.
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I see; Must be somewhat annoying for you, then, to have to repeatedly explain (and at times defend?) a system that you disagree about...
I wish I were in the beta, but I was not cool enough to get an invite :( One thing is for sure though; no matter what system is implemented, the cheese and cheesers will remain- heck, at times I wonder whether I'm a cheeser myself.
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One of my favourite alternative systems was the one where your CV was determined by something not $$-related, I think it was the amount of whitelists you were on. It was an interesting approach that encouraged participating in the forums and being a part of the community. Sure, any system has flaws and can be exploited, it's just that if we decide to use some sort of encouragement for contributors, we should pick the one that is less prone to abuse.
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Yeah. I can imagine how that too could be exploited by creating threads and steam groups with the name like 'add me and I'll add you', and see tons of threads how this system sucks.
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The whitelist idea is interesting, but some people simply don't want to participate in the forums but still give away hundreds of games so it would have been unfair to them (I guess that is one of the reasons it wasn't used eventually).
But yes, I think something not related to the price of a game might be better, but it's hard to come up with something fair to everyone and not too exploitable.
I liked the system that was used for the Midsummer Madness event, where games were valued based on the number of wishlists they were on (using the S.Gifts group wishlist).
But it's very dynamic, the number returned was only an estimation based on the users recently online so it was fluctuating constantly, and even if you could get an accurate number from all the users of the site (but is that even possible ?), there would still be value drops when a game is bundled or get a huge discount, and people would complain the same way they complain when a game is retroactively bundled.
It's also exploitable in some measure, since you can compare games and find which one give you the most points per $ I did that to help me decide between some games, but much less exploitable than the current system.
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Вот эти "несколько месяцев" и смущают.
Это правильно и справедливо - вносить дешёвые игры в бандл-лист. Но когда это происходит через полгода-год - то выглядит несколько... подло.
Люди платят деньги, реальные деньги ради повышения контрибуции, а потом в один прекрасный день - пшик, и оказалось, что они "выкинуты на ветер" только потому, что кто-то через полгода проснулся и вспомнил, что игра где-то когда-то продавалась с большой скидкой. Если уж прозевали - то прозевали... добавили бы в бандл с сегодняшнего дня. А изменять правила игры задним числом - странное решение...
ВНАЧАЛЕ стоит предупреждать пользователей, а уж они сами будут решать - раздавать или нет.
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Я напоминаю, что в бандл-список вносятся игры, скидка на которые составляла 95%. То есть, игра продавалась за 5% ее полной стоимости. В бандл-списке, однако, такая игра принесет раздающему не 0%, не 5%, а 15% стоимости. Хотя по справедливости стоило бы давать 5, правильно?
Если уж прозевали - то прозевали
Почему те, кто использовал подобные игры для накрутки уровня, должны сохранить накрученный уровень только потому, что они среагировали быстрее, чем человек, работающий с бандл-списком? И повторюсь, прайс-баги и большие скидки случаются не только в магазине Steam. Silent Hill Homecoming на бразильском сайте, Bioshock Infinite на турецком, Metro, 007 Legends на русском, и так далее. Физически нереально одному человеку вовремя отслеживать их все. Поэтому мы рассчитываем на уведомления, которые присылают пользователи сайта. Будут вовремя приходить уведомления - будем вовремя добавлять игры в бандл-список.
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Вот именно изначально нужно было прописать в правилах "в бандл-список вносятся игры, скидка на которые составляла 95% по отношению к полной цене в US-регионе", а не когда-нибудь потом передумать и изменять правила игры задним числом (про 95% скидки в стиме неофициально знали, но ведь не было оговорено, что берётся за основу цена в долларах). Кстати, даже сейчас на странице FAQ скромно не упомянуто вообще про 95%.
Люди тратили деньги, покупали и раздавали ради контрибуции. Набивка контрибуции - это плохо, но если бы администрация SG проинформировала пользователей о правилах, то они бы: 1) не раздавали хлам; 2) лучше бы на эти деньги купили и раздали что-нибудь более востребуемое и разнообразное. Всем было бы приятней и удобней - и раздающим, и выигрывающим.
А кусать локти и пытаться что-то исправить задним числом - уже нелогично.
На мой взгляд - или бандлить с сегодняшней даты или же ещё лучше - ввести отдельный список для бандловых, и отдельный - для игр с большой скидкой, и за "скидочные" давать 30-50% контрибуции.
Сколько игры стоят в бандлах? Как правило, в бандле 3-10 игр, и цена $1-3, то есть стоимость каждой игры $0.2-0.5. И за эти игры пользователь получает 15% контрибуции от её полной стоимости.
А вот, скажем, за 007 или за Shadow Warrior в РУ-регионе платили $1 за одну игру.
Человек платит больше, а получает контрибуции меньше... Где справедливость?
И, кстати, Metro: Last Light Complete Edition, равно как и DLC к нему, занесены в бандл-список совершенно неоправданно, на них никогда не было больших скидок. Дёшево на plati.ru продаётся только оригинальная игра Metro: Last Light (и копеечный DLC Ranger Mode).
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Deal with it.
Regarding this site scanning inventories and using that to give full value, not happening. That ignores people with keys from sites like GreenMan and GamerGate, and even with a gift available, you can still give a key. It would also be a lot more work for the site. Do you really want this site under more load? you have been here long enough to experience the crashing site.
Regarding value changing after the fact, it happens because it was cheap / bundled before then, and the value is retroactively changed. People shouldn't be allowed to exploit it just because they were faster than the one Support member updating the list.
Regarding giving full value if people say Gift, and letting the winner confirm if it was Gift or Key, not happening. Too easily exploitable, be it small private groups of friends gifting bundle keys for full value, or just bribing winners with more keys they got from a bundle to mark as Gift.
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" value is retroactively changed"
totally confused... Spend almost whole student's stipend for it
And other can be improved. Always there can be ways for improving, maybe sometimes i can help with something.
Thanks for open answer!
Regarding retroactively it is totally unfair too. Cause all games sooner or later can be with high discount. And then accounts for users will have bundled games.
For example i create giveaway before bundlelisted. It really fare if i get bundled price AFTER bundlelisted it. But not Before.
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You give a game on the 10th, it hits a 96% sale on the 11th, added to the list on the 18th. You are safe, your value is untouched.
You give a game on the 12th after that sale started, then you will be hit by the retroactive value change.
When people are hit by the change, it is fair. Because so was everyone else that might have tried to exploit it for higher value.
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I can't create giveaways without discounts cause high prices, it is the main problem. What i should to do?
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How low? What a maximum % i can buy and create giveaway with it?
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95% is the bundle point. Grab something at 75% and unless it was bundled in the past, it should be safe.
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But... I'm actually created 75% and it is become bundle later:
http://store.steampowered.com/app/251810/
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Its $3 in RU/CIS. Everyone understands that wages are different in those regions but that doesn't stop people from exploiting the system.
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by that logic all games that are at 75% off in EU are automatically at like 98% off in rubies... compared to base EU prices thats it.
tldr: all games should end up in bundled list?
wouldnt it be easier to just, you know, mark RU restricted gifts as bundled games instead of screwing over everyone else?
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Yeah technically they could bundle everything once it goes on sale, but I think its on a case by case. The bundling of games from RU started before everything was region locked. I'm guessing it hasn't been brought up much since but if you do bundle only RU copies then you're screwing RU/CIS. Better to screw everyone rather than a certain group imo. For it all to be fair, you'd probably have to confine RU/CIS members to their own section, only allowing them to create and enter RU/CIS games? Honestly have no idea I'm just spitballing here.
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https://steamdb.info/app/251810/
90% cheaper in Russia than the US. That was also mentioned earlier. You are even in the region for that.
That is about 97% of the price removed. Look at that. You spent less than US$10, and expect US$400 worth for it? You still got about US$60 worth towards your value, a fair bit more than you spent.
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Maybe region restricted GAs should give points according to the regional pricing. That could solve some of the problems.
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But the reason games are cheaper in some regions is because people in these regions earn less on average than someone from the US, so it wouldn't be fair to these people.
I think it would be better if the creation of region resctricted giveaways would be available only to people from that region. Then we wouldn't have to have separate CV values for different regions, or to add games to the bundled list because the converted price in a region is similar to a 95% or more discount ont the US store.
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Being fair or not should not be included in the equation for calculating points. What is fair and what is not is highly subjective....
"Leadwerks Game Engine" which is more than 10x lower priced than NA in Russia for instance is an obvious attempt of abuse for points.
You have any better idea to prevent that kind of abuse?
FYI, even tho it is irrelevant, I am from another restricted region with low average salary as well...
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Being fair or not should not be included in the equation for calculating points
Then why do we have a list of bundle games ? And why do you suggest having different CV for different regions ? This is all for the sake of fairness.
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fair in the sense of having a proper system to calculate CV yes, not fair in the sense of considering people's wages, personality, race, country, color or any other personal crap.
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It's there for a simple reason : Without it, the entire contributor level system would be worthless due to people happily abusing bundles for CV.
It would be a different situation if keys and gifts had origin data attached to them, but they don't. There is no way to tell apart a store-bought key from a bundled key. It can suck, but if it wasn't this way, the CV system would be butchered.
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About your update:
I'm not in richest region, and right now, I don't really have the money, but I don't think it should be considered while talking about things that would affect whole SG, worlwide, community. Seriously, it have nothing to do with this mythical justice that so many people try to use, when they don't have other arguments.
Seriously, the fact how much money we make (or not) is not important!
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This is your post:
"Bundled games here, bundled games there, Whaaa!!! It's unfair!!!
some blabbering about eidos anthology
some more blabbering
Whaaa!!! Injustice!!!
Change it, but I don't know how
Update: Whaaa!!! Injustice! Not fair!"
Would you like to hear something about injustice? Here we go: Is There Any Deal shows that in your region you can buy Eidos Anthology for 1/4 of EU price, and for about 1/3 of US price. But you would like to receive whole CV value, don't you? Why? It's unfair for other users.
Want to hear more? In my country, many people don't make much more money that you claimed people make in your region, yet steam has put us in UE region, which (again according to ITAD) is seccond to most expensive (higher price is only in UK region). Isn't that a whooping injustice? By your standards it probablly is, but do you see me, or other users cry about it and making a threads? No.
Even with 15% CV you don't lose to much, according to prices in your region, so you have no rights to call it unfair. If you would actually pay the highest price, maybe, I would be able to understand that whining, but you didn't. When we will add to it fact that steam have some nice deals from time to time, it gives you a great opportunity to exploit CV points. Putting Eidos Anthology on that list is a good way to prevent it.
Not to mention that checking 'Bundle List' should be kinda obvious thing to do before making a GA.
And you still didn't make any real arguments.
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You know, i said in average. I'm student, have a two stipend (60$) and maked around 80$ in month. And these money going on housing, food and remaining not little. So i'm attitude to money more carefully.
I understand, your region can be more expensive if you vuy games, so therefore you pirated games more, cause this only way out.
So injustice, i tell it else 1 time, if i create giveaway after i checked bundlelist it unfair reduse cost my giveaway after i send game. It wrong, despite the price.
legally if I look bundlelist and don't find product i sign a fictional agreement with this cost. But i receive cost in many times lower.
Anyway you can think i haven't arguments and about i dumbass and what you what else.
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I strongly agree.
Using the regional economy card (and pretty much every other card in the hand, in this case) is a ridiculously cheap move.
The fact that the people in your country (and mine - similar if not lower regional wages) are paid really low wages has NOTHING to do with you having the right to demand more (arbitrary) points on SG.
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Once upon a time we did not have any CV system in place and people were generally happy, but wanted some way to reward contributors. After CV came, there's been nothing but bickering and complaints.
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I remember.
Beause each system need to be improve i think. This system seems better for me and i sended as ticket my suggestion for the biggest minus to this moment...
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bickering and complaints only come from bundle thing... to be more specific, 99% comes from retroactively bundle thing...
when a rule is flexible enough to not be a rule (where, at some point, users can't prevent or expect its effects), complaining is inevitable...
besides the fact that I'm pretty new here, I never saw no one genuinely complaining about CV (or bundle) system itself...
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As a fairly new user, I would like to add that from my point of view it works good. Maybe, I say maybe the bundle list could be made better, but it comes from belief that every single thing can be improved. Also as I have participated in forum disscussions I don't recall seeing any actuall complains from people who made that community great place it is.
It's sad to hear that there is so much complaining (well, you are support, you have to read tickets, etc. so you know more than I do) but I think people will always complain, for any given reasons. As for me, it's better to put some titles on bundle list to prevent CV exploits, that let people jump on highest CV levels (you explained that very nice in your other comment). For what it's worth, you are all doing great job, and you shouldn't care about naysayers.
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Why can't they give steam gifts full value since it's been purchased for full price (or more than bundle price at least)?
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I suspect nobody making this sort of thread ever paid full price for a game in their entire life... :)
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Full price like $2 for the Stronghold Collection worth $50? Or $3 for Leadwerks Game Engine for $100 CV? Yes, let's give them full value.
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I don't see it for that cheap. Stronghold is regular price and Leadworks is $25. But how do you know when they purchased them? They could have bought it for full price or less of a discount. How is it fair to deny them the CV if you don't know when they bought it?
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So at what point do you put the cutoff? Why do we have a bundle list at all? How do you know the person didn't pay full price or less of a discount for the games in the bundle?
I can see why you're arguing so hard about this, considering all of the Snow Light giveaways you've made...
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thats why i suggested to change it so gifts and links dont give same cv, because if its a key and game has been bundled before its most likely coming from a bundle. On the other hand, gifts, bar a few odd games that give extra copy, arent part of a bundle so unless it was a game that was sold at >95% on steam it shouldnt be marked as a bundled game because, well it wasnt bought in a bundle.
edit: by 95% off on steam i mean steam EU/US store.
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And what system do you propose we use to keep track of whether a giveaway is for a gift or key? User honesty?
Response to your edit:
So you're okay with giving a free pass to everyone with a Russian friend to jump levels effortlessly? There have been multiple instances where Russian store was selling upwards of $100CV for $1 spent. So spend $50 USD and you're level 10! While everyone else has to spend $1000+ to get to the same place.
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well it works for other things, doesnt it? Yeah i can see how it could be abused at first, but after a few quick bans im sure people would start to behave :P People already report others for stuff thats not according to rules, im sure something as big would be easy to spot (aka people boosting cv by imaginary gifts, and stuff).
Or maybe make it so system checks if gift is in your inventory, and if not you cant make a gift giveaway. But that would require some work though so not sure about that one.
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Step 1) Make public giveaway and click the gift option
Step 2) Give winner a key, and ask him/her to mark received. 99% of the time they will be okay, especially for public giveaways where the lurkers couldn't care less about the gift/key distinction.
The reason the non-activation rule works is because you can physically check if the person activated or not. There's absolutely no way to check key or gift redemption externally.
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yeah i guess you are right, not like i wasnt aware of its possible abuse (was thinking about groups trading cv and stuff but tbh havent thought of that one yet :P) and it could probably be abused in more ways but i just woke up so not really in thinking mode yet :)
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system like on gameminer or playblink maybe? you send gift to bot and then bot send gift to winner
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I remember that one time gameminer had their bot tradebanned and lost all of the gifts.
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because gm is "donate us gold sh..." but i dont hear nothing about tradeban of playblink bot... so if the site is fine no one will ban it(and sg is very fine)
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Not arguing, just talking. But what do my Snow Light giveaways have to do with anything? They were bundle keys. Not steam gifts. I didn't expect to get the full CV value for them. If they WERE steam gifts and I actually paid $100 for each of them then hell yes I would expect to get the full CV. And you would too. That was my point.
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i traded 5 copies of stronghold collection for $7.5 each and gave them away 3 weeks ago. now i got exactly what i paid for ($37.5 cv) which could have been used on something better, like a fallout 4 or mad max copy. -_-
i had no idea it was being exploited, it wasn't marked as bundle not it got a 95%+ discount... so i had no way to know what could have happened 3 weeks after buying/trading them.
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but then again, if we were to give cv relative to purchase price, nothing should ever give full cv because, bar few recent releases nothing was bought at full price, no? :P
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Sorry, but putting Leadwerks, and any game / software on bundlelist just because it is dirt cheap in some locked regions is just not the right way to do it. What you are doing right now is going for the cheapest / laziest solution, and that's simply not right.
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Unfortunately, that's the only option we have right now. A better solution would be to have several versions of the bundle list, one for each region, and manage them separetely.
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Can you suggest a solution that does not involve adding extra code to the site? Keep in mind that support members cannot change site features in any way, and the only thing that we can conceivably change is the contents of the bundle list.
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No, and I was not talking about support members, I was talking about the website in general. It needs those features. As the end-user, I don't care who's responsability is that, nor do I blame a certain person, but I care that these things do no exist.
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Russian bank system is preparing for 100-120 rubles for 1 us dollar , in that case Russian average pension will be equal to 60-70 dollars / months
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i dont like when good games get into the bundled list, they say it dosent affect the giveaway rate, but offcouse it does.
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Know what, all this bundle stuff is ridiculous. Creators of this site want people to give away good games and stop the site from being bundle dumpster, we all know that. But they OBVIOUSLY do this all COMPLETELY WRONG, they can't force people to give away non-discounted goodies by depreciating everything that have discounts (and don't even start that rigmarole that bundled games evaluate non-bundled, it's all bollocks, it 's called depreciation even if you don't want to see it clearly), people wouldn't start to give away what you want from them, they rather stop giving away AT ALL. How couldn't they understand it? Who knows. They need at least to think about carrot instead of stick, and at most they MUST think about flexible system, when the final constribution calculated on the assumption of previous discounts of a game, bundle depreciation must be burned with fire.
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Why would anyone stop giving away games just because some games won't give you full CV? This site isn't about lvl racing, it's about sharing joy by giving away games .
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There are much less people who get more joy in sharing and giving away, rather than winning and receiving, no need to pretend that's a magic world of unicorns.
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And what of that? Those who enjoy giving abundantly will keep giving, those who enjoy leeching will keep leeching and a whole bunch of people will continue to float somewhere in between. Don't see how it'll change anything.
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Sounds funny, didn't you see how eager are people to GA copies and copies of anything when they see some profit, people who used to leech and nothing else before? They should not be treated by bundle depreciation because it's a last chance for us to get something from them, to, basically, stop the worst kind of leeching. We need flexible system that doesn't allow fastleveling on the one hand, and keeps some value of games on another, also this system must be region-dependent. And adding to bundle list everything, even -75 like now, is absolutely unacceptable.
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What, you mean users with 10 copies of 007 agent GAs just to get to 5+ giveaways? Yeah, it's really productive. And after that they can start leeching on the whole new level.
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Oh, Saints Row 3 and 4 was in a bundle, now they are shitty bundled games, amirite?
Maybe hard to imagine, but some people give away games because they don't need it from bundles/ love gifting, and don't take part in the stupid CV race. The bundle list is there to keep the CV and levels in check, because otherwise everyone would be able to race to level 10 in a week from like 50$ tops. Region locks, region only giveaways are surely making this more complicated, but again, the reason to do this because for every good willed person there are at least 2 opportunists who would happily boost themselves up if bundled games would count full (as soon as it would be much more beneficial for them, they'd give to reap the huge bonus CV) . As in every aspect of the world, the normal, good behaving persons suck because the rules have to be created to prevent infractions.
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99% games on steamgifts cheap bundle SHIT, what kind of justice you speak?
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If you are giving away games just to level up - you are probably doing it for the wrong reasons.
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Доброй ночи! А можно как то пофиксить это?
http://store.steampowered.com/app/233250/
http://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/JbFJq/planetary-annihilation 0P (
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Wisest commentary. You right. Write it to support for delivering to Administrator, please!
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Ummm... Region-restricted giveaways are locked to people in that region.
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So, you want to prevent those of good faith from giving away games that are not from their region? Because if you restrict everyone, you also restrict those of good faith.
There will always be ways to exploit any given system. The idea is to prevent exploitation by bad people as much as possible while also not handicapping the benefit sought by good people.
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TL; DR VERSION
Complaint: "I want more CV for the games I give away."
Reasonable Response: "Until we find a better system, this is the one we will use."
Unreasonable Reply: "But I want more CV for my money! Change your site so I am happy!"
This discussion comes up, from time to time. The complaint is understandable because it is based on a lack of knowledge. The response is always given, and those who are reasonable accept it. Some people focus on what they want rather than what is reasonable, however, and they will hold fast to the unreasonable reply. There is no point in arguing with someone who is being unreasonable.
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The only thing that is being ignored (by some people) is the reasonable response. Until we find a better system, this is the one we are using. If someone can come up with a better solution, one that is "more fair," it will most likely be implemented. Claiming the site is "unfair" is not only unfair, it does nothing to improve things.
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That is already in the works. Unfortunately, your posting is about SG being "unfair" (something negative) instead of "SG could use more staff" (something positive).
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Thank you for being supportive. The Support Staff puts a lot of time and effort into making this site the best it can be, and while there is much room for improvement (lots of things on the "to do" list), it can be a bit discouraging when complaints pile up without solutions being offered. To make things more difficult, newer members are unaware of all of the ideas which have already been suggested, leading to lots of "can't do that" and "already tried that" responses. Even so, the introduction of the Suggestions sub-forum has resulted in some good ideas being both proffered and implemented, thereby improving the site.
One small step at a time toward perfection....
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CMIIW, anything on steam store that has 85-90% off on normal store (even haven't been bundled) is actually 95% off or more in Russian store? Maybe there should be separated bundle list for those Russian.
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I seen many games in bundled. And it counted as bundled. Even if i buy it in steam store. Why? It completely unfair.
For example "Eidos Anthology". It not cheap, buy it in steam store, i thought it really good. But today i seen it in bundle games and... it bundled O.o Why? It even not been on bundles and don't have low price.
I feel left out, cause i receive only 15% for eidos anthology, for example.
So, with this logic soon all games will be bundled?
What you think about this injustice?
I think SG need other system. Where games from steam market can't be bundled. Only very cheap. Or something else.
Update: Mostly think about justice here. But in our region, for example, average salary 250$ in month. If you have received these money, in this case how would you have voted?
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