Did you know that games companies are exploiting their workers by forcing them to work insane hours that last weeks on end with no overtime pay and laying most of them off once the game is released?
Thanks for the important thread.
We all have to unionize and demand our unions for better work conditions.
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You're welcome! Since you used the word "we", I'm assuming you're a game developer? If so, please let your colleagues know about this.
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Oof shots at pewds lmao
I'm only 2 min into the video and I absolutely hate the host already though. Is this really something people watch? He's super cringe/unfunny to me
I'll stick with it tho, if only for the train ;)
Edit: omg please someone shoot me in the balls, I can't take anymore of this bozo
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Hehe, well, sorry for putting you through torture :P
If you don't mind me suggesting, you could try turning on the subtitles, muting the video and "reading" the video instead.
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Hah well to be fair, I put myself through that :p It's cool that he's bringing the info to the public but man do I find him annoying
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I'm glad I'm not the only one who felt that way. I appreciated the content (and that Aethyna was sharing awareness of this with us), but the poor attempts at humor and canned laughter were downright painful.
I'll pass on getting shot in the balls, though. :P
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I didn't have that strong a reaction to him, but I was similarly disappointed. I expected him to be funny - he was funny on the Daily Show - but all his jokes fell flat with me. The info was good, but I don't see his show as something I'd want to watch again if this was a representative episode.
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Bump. Thanks for posting that video.
I knew the animation industry was like this. People get a fixed salary and are forced to work insane overtime to meet impossible deadlines. Speak up and you get blacklisted and/or your name removed from the credits.
Even in the design industry, I've come across some truly horrible employers. I've been in situations where I've been taken on under the pretense of a permanent position. They put a 6-month trial clause in the contract that allows them to get rid of you, then tell me that "we're sorry, we can't afford to keep you on." The reality of this is that they take on extra hands during the busy season and then they drop the extra designers.
All of the creative industries are pretty shitty. Animation and game development appear to get the worst of it though.
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I'm very sorry to hear that. Hopefully with unions to fight for them, this sort of despicable hiring tactic can be stopped in the near future.
Do designers/animators have their own unions?
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I was never in a union, so I assume not.
Most of the studios I have worked in didn't have enough designers to form a union. Some smaller studios only have 1 or 2 designers.
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I found this for animators: https://www.artbabbittsociety.com/animation-unions but nothing for designers.
However, there's a topic that I think you might be interested in: https://eyeondesign.aiga.org/this-is-what-starting-a-design-union-looks-like/
Looks like designers are mobilizing to set up a union as well!
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Animators on the other hand often work in pretty big teams, but I doubt they have unions. That's why they are being treated like dirt. There was massive scandal over the movie "Sausage Party" and the studio's treatment of it's animators, people getting blacklisted, not included in the credits, and all kinds of shitty stuff. I have never watched that film and don't ever intend to.
Some interesting reading on that:
https://www.cracked.com/blog/how-sausage-party-screwed-over-its-own-animators/
and they fought it:
https://www.cartoonbrew.com/artist-rights/vancouver-animators-win-overtime-pay-in-sausage-party-pay-dispute-171836.html
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Wow, this is completely new to me. Guess I've got some reading up to do - thanks for the links!
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A friend of mine works in the animation industry and made me aware of this a few years ago. It's very shocking, and the removal from credits is the worst part of it all. Without being credited, you have a gap in your resume and have no proof that you actually worked on something for six months, or however how long.
I had no idea that the games industry was just as bad. We both learned something new.
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Interesting (and shocking) articles. Unfortunately you're right, this kind of treatment happens in a lot of creative sectors, especially the ones that are so-called "small worlds" because employees get threatened with retaliation and getting their reputation ruined if they complain and fear they won't be able to find another job if they even quit.
My sister has been working in web agencies and it's pretty much the same there. When you see the pressure devs, project managers and creatives work under, working 7 days a week, doing all-nighters, eating and sleeping at work, just so some 2.0 version of some online store or fashion website can be online before the big sale or fashion week or whatever... you'd think people's lives are at stake. Like someone is going to die if the damn website is online a week after the deadline. It's ludicrous.
And of course, when the money comes in, they don't see a cent of it. They don't get paid overtime, they don't get compensatory time off (even though they are supposed to by law), no bonus, nothing.
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Yep, the last permanent contract to turn into a layoff after 6 months was the worst experience of them all. I could handle the layoff because I'd just get another job. This crowd cheated me out of pay I was entitled to, treated me like dirt and tried to make me feel inadequate. They even reduced my pay. When they said the words "we'll have to lay you off. It's not you, you're a great fit for our team, but we can't afford you." I cried. Not because I was sad, but because I was actually so relieved to be leaving the job without the worry of being blacklisted by the rest of the franchise for eventually telling them to "shove their job up their arse" and walking out. It was getting to that point. I am a quiet person, but I was losing it, and I was already looking for another job.
The other designer handed in his notice a month later and went working abroad. Don't blame him. That particular employer's staff turnover was huge. They were forever treating staff like this and getting away with it because they still wanted to work within the franchise for other employers who were, in fact, decent people who pay well.
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I cried. Not because I was sad, but because I was actually so relieved to be leaving the job without the worry of being blacklisted by the rest of the franchise for eventually telling them to "shove their job up their arse" and walking out.
Damn. It's crazy when you get to that point, especially when you like what you do.
I was lucky because I didn't like my job at all and there was something else I wanted to try so I just quit and did that. But it's a heartbreak when you like your job and they treat you like a piece of furniture. Worse than furniture because they don't emotionally (or literally) blackmail furniture.
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For sure. I've honestly been considering a slight switch in career toward IT. Once I'm fully recovered, I'm really thinking about it. It's not so bad in this country because there are plenty of jobs in the tech industry. Having some formal training in software development, it's not impossible hehe. Sure, I'd have to take a pay cut, but I think the long-term benefits and eventual increase in salary would be worth it.
Good for you for taking the plunge and trying something new!
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Bump!
The whispers of those conditions is one of the reasons I ultimately decided against going into game development
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I'm glad that you dodged the bullet, but unfortunately, many have not >.<
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Yeah, I've had some talk with another SGer on the original thread about the issue and that's when he told me about the EA Spouse incident. Guess these higher-ups never learn from past lessons.
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Great of you to raise awareness on this topic! I knew a bit about these issues, I once dreamt of working in this industry too, but all of that had made me rethink that... And it's nice that the video talks about sexism in the video game industry.
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Just trying to do my bit to help :) And yeah, sexism in the games industry is a whole other can of worms which definitely warrants its own episode if the host does one day decide to cover the topic.
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Thanks for sharing this. I've heard about all of this before (well, maybe not about the farting at Riot), but I'm sure lots of people haven't.
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You're welcome! That's the goal of this thread - to help spread the word to those who haven't :)
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Bump. I'm not surprised about the working condition and the lay offs, but I didn't expect the working culture to degrade so badly at some of the companies
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I could hardly believe it myself when I first knew about it (mentioned about this in the original thread), but I did my homework and well, it resulted in this thread.
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Bump, thanks for the quiz.
Luckily I already knew most of things covered, usually I read all kinds of news in gaming industries. But as told in the video, these problems happen all over in tech sector and since the gaming industry shares the "same" type of job, it wouldn't take long for the general public to know about this.
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Yes indeed. The games industry has almost always been fueled by passion and if game workers can finally get better work conditions, then it's probably not too much of a stretch to extend that change to the tech industry (and apparently, the design industry as well) as a whole.
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Thanks for the puzzle and the giveaways. And the best of all was the link to this video. That video was very interesting and I had no clue about all the problems a game worker has to face in the game industry. So thanks for giving us information about our favorite hobby.
I really hope they unite and can change they circumstances in the near future. :-)
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Yes I hope so too. They have been put through terrible working conditions just so we could have our amazing games to play - They really deserve better
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Glad to hear that! Not many people can stand the host though :P
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Cool idea, using the giveaway/quiz to raise awareness. Quite informative too
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Thanks, it's not an original idea though. Glad you find the video informative!
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Yeah me too. Started a thread on SG right after I saw the video back then
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Yes, that's why I wanted to let more people know about this. It's just horrible to imagine the games I've enjoyed playing so much are built on the backs of many burned-out developers/game workers; people who may end up getting some form of mental disorder due to the immense and prolonged work stress they were put through.
The fact that most of them would become unemployed once the project they worked on was completed is just the proverbial "cherry" on top of a bowl of bitter pills to swallow.
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You are sharing this, and that is great. But i am just wondering, is there anything else we can do to fight against this?
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Raising awareness is one thing that most people would be more willing to do I think, but if you want to go further...
Note that you can't donate to the organization yet but I think they are working on securing a non-profit status so they could open up an organization bank account.
As mentioned in the OP, the Game Workers Unite group is also setting up a bank account so people who would like to do more could donate to help them with their cause. You can keep an eye out for when the donating option is available. Maybe there are also other groups out there that could use your donations too, but it's always wise to double check their credentials and to make sure that your money is actually going directly towards the cause and not into their pockets.
Maybe you could also let lawmakers (or important people who can bring about some real and more immediate change in the industry) know about this issue. A new labor law could be passed to make excessive crunching (baby steps to minimizing crunching) and also make the sort of labor exploitation games companies are engaged in illegal. I'm not very familiar with labor laws though so I can't discuss this in detail with you if you're interested to know more.
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Thanks for the answers :)
I think this has to be solved if we want to see good products made by happy developers. Hopefully, all gamers will support this as well.
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You're welcome :) Been thinking about this for quite a bit - hence, the delay between this giveaway train and my original thread which I've posted on the day I saw the video. Fingers crossed!
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that's how kids destroy game industry when they spend money on micro transactions...
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Well, to be fair, many adults do spend a fair share of of their money on microtransactions as well... perhaps even more so considering that they are earning the money they spend.
IMHO, I'm pretty sure there's a way to redesign the microtransaction system so that it's not detrimental to the game workers who are involved in it, nor to the company's bottom line. But of course, the system itself already has such a bad name generally, I guess even a reworked and improved microtransaction system might still get a ton of flak from the public.
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Note that this is not so much of a puzzle but a quiz... that's right folks! For those of you who aren't at school anymore, guess what? Here's a pop quiz and it makes up 100% of your final score for the semester!
Here's the ItsTooHard link: http://www.itstoohard.com/puzzle/tdopP1e0
For your efforts, I've included a variety of bundled and unbundled games into the train (level 1+). Good luck!
Edit: Forgot to mention, the train will be open for 2 weeks.
On a more serious note, I wanted to do something to help raise awareness about the issue while it's still fresh in my mind (I'm quite forgetful despite my age) and what better way to get people's attention on SG than with a giveaway train? Reaching level 7 is just a nice bonus :)
What can YOU do to help?
Help spread the word to every gamer (or even non-gamer) you know. If you know friends or family who currently works within the gaming industry, that's even better! Gamers are generally really passionate about the games they play, and hopefully, they would extend that care and passion to the people behind the scenes whose gaming passions are being exploited.
If you're a game worker, you might be interested to join an available union (select countries/regions only) or join the GWU chapter that's pushing to establish one in your region.
Note that you can't donate to the organization yet but I think they are working on securing a non-profit status so they could open up an organization bank account.
More resources:
Extra read: 'I'd Have These Extremely Graphic Dreams': What It's Like To Work On Ultra-Violent Games Like Mortal Kombat 11
To end this thread, I'll leave you with a quote:
Let's change this!
-Inspired by the quiz created by Lars to help promote Taylor Swift's latest album
Not sure if I even need this but Disclaimer: I'm not affiliated with GWU or any of the resources I've linked in this thread/in the quiz.
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