I feel that the best test of a game's quality (or most anything else, non-perishable) is TIME. So I don't even buy new games, unless it is something truly special (e.g. Dishonoured etc) that I just can't hold myself back on :) Most games β give them a year or two, see if I am still interested, and then buyβ¦ and heavy discount is a nice bonus for the patient.
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The only bad thing in this is that it could affect the developers of good games, who wouldn't be profiting enough or fast enough, or could incentivize certain sneaky publishers to price their games higher and get a fair (so-called) payment on them when they go on sale.
But yeah, I understand where you're coming from nonetheless and it's one of the best stances you could take from a consumer standpoint, I kinda do the same thing. :)
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Excellent point. Sometimes I feel the need to reward developers, especially small / indie ones.
But setting a price is always a trade-off, both science and an art-form. Higher price reduces number of sales, but increases profit from a single sale. So a developer looks for that min/max sweet spot (high, but not too high), and adjusts it as the game gets older. So if I am undecided on a game because of a price β I know it is the developer's decision, and if the game is good enough β I am pretty sure I'll bring them my money eventually :) (or win it on SG β good things come to those who wait)
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Many times, especially when it comes to AAA, the guys working on the games, the developers, aren't the ones deciding the price. That's done by the publishers, which are greedy businessmen.
But that's beside the point of the discussion. π
Yeah, I agree and I do the same. If I know a game will be good and it's very tempting I sometimes will buy it pretty fast. I also tend to do it if it's a small game and/or team, as you've said. Small companies and most indies tend to be suffering more from the issue of an overflooded market.
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Never have or will. It's waste of money and encourages shitty publisher behaviour and unfinished games getting released.
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I used to but it seems all the new pc games come out with so many bugs, microtransaction, and DLC's, I just stopped.
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Thanks for your 1000 giveaways!
I don't preorder games (or any other product) because I'm a patient person and I don't care about having something the day it comes out. I don't play with friends or anything so there's no social pressure for me to get the hot new game everyone else is playing. I've got plenty of games to keep me busy until it hits a bundle or a 75% off deal... Even if it's 2 or 3 years later, it's new to me when I play it for the first time, right?
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Exactly.
The only issue would be that it affects developers and publishers to a certain degree, as jeffhowe pointed out and as I also said above, when talking to Antomas.
But even so, there will always be people who will buy those games or who have nothing else to play and are looking for new games, people who will buy these games on launch, so hopefully most good games will win their invested money back pretty fast.
So I still think this is the best thing to do and it is easier for us too when it comes to playing the games we buy. I'd feel like drowning if I kept buying games more rapidly than playing the ones I bought before, to some extent I feel like that right now. π
Oh, and you're welcome, haha, don't mention it. Giving these games took some time, so I barely felt like doing anything.
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I tend not to preorder videogames. They cost a lot of money and I'm mostly a single-player guy so I don't care whether I play the game one year or more after it got released. I haven't preordered many games in my life anyway.
Last games I preordered were Diablo 3 (played a lot, but haven't touched it in three years: after the expansion, actually very good, which I luckily/skilfully won on a fansite, I lost interest, there was nothing to do); Starbound and Grim Dawn while they were in Early Access; some games on Kickstarter: Heart Forth, Alicia, Witchmarsh and Slaps and Beans. I'm really looking forward to playing these.
I think the only preorders I'll ever do from now on will be Kickstarter games.
Congratulations on your milestone and thanks for all giveaways!
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Ooh, I understand. It's so awesome that you're supporting crowdfunded games! From a developer's perspective, I mean. π
You should be careful who you're paying there as well, but even so, you're much more likely to get a game you want and will enjoy from places like Kickstarter than from supporting shady publishers that treat consumers like tools.
Thank you very much, by the way, and you're welcome! :)
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I think the pre-order culture has become a bit of a problem in the form of Standard, Complete, Collector's, Gold, Platinum, Diamond, GOTY, Ultimate, Day One, Definitive, Founder's, Limited, Umlimited, Hero, Champion, Special, Ultra, Omega, Alpha Editions and Season Passes for mostly Triple AAA games.
It's a larger problem with the most popular franchises, as they tend to make several of these versions over the year after a game's release, ranging anywhere from like 79.99-119.99, even though you can pick up the game at like half-price (sometimes considerably lower) after about like 6 months. I think it says something about the quality of those games, and where the developer's focus has shifted to from just trying to make what is supposed to essentially be a work of art and entertainment. Why make a great game, when you can just make a good game that's guaranteed to be sold in overly-priced packaged form to at least a considerable percentage of your dedicated fan/playerbase. It's become easier for them to break even/make a profit, so now there's less game-making effort required.
Of course some developers and some franchises are more guilty of this than others, and there are some good eggs, but it's a tangible trend with consequences nonetheless
It's also pretty lame to see a game's title have "GOTY" or "Ultimate Edition" strewn below it, kinda takes away from the presentation of the whole thing, it's really lazy and uninspired. And whenever I see "Complete" anywhere, I just think: "Well I own the freaking game, I should hope so." All of the other versions might as well have a fat "INCOMPLETE" brand on them, then at least people would realize what they're actually paying for.
I've pre-ordered before, but haven't really done so in like two/three years or so. It's never worth it with a price over 59.99.
Congrats on the giveaways, Que (:
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I'd stop at "it's never worth it". Other than that, I don't have anything else to add and I agree with all of your points, well said.
In case you don't already, maybe you should try doing reviews or analyses of particular topics like this one because, in my opinion, you're able to phrase your ideas in a very interesting and entertaining way.
Thanks!
I've read that "triple A" thing in Jim Sterling's voice, hahaha. π
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Oh thanks, that's very nice of you to say (:
I think I'd reword it to "I personally prefer not to pay more than 59.99" for a pre-order nowadays"
I've dunked cash on a ton of things, so I'm sure lots of pre-order people have had their reasons and gotten their money's worth. It's all that matters in the end for the gamer and that's fine, but it is regretfully something to be taken advantage of by business-savvy developers
On a side note, if I were to pre-order something in the future, it'll probably be Death Stranding. I'm a huge fan of Hideo and the MGS series, and the cancellation of P.T. was honestly a tragedy, so I'm really excited for it
Was there any game you came really really close to reserving?
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No, I don't think it was. That's either because I mostly play older games, trying to catch up to new releases, and... the thought never crossed my mind, really, I don't really get hyped over upcoming games. I'm very hyped for games that have already been released, though. π
But I'm looking forward to Death Stranding too, almost as much as to buying a PS4... π
I get what you're saying, and yeah, pre-ordering might have some benefits and I know it certainly helps publishers and developers, but I wish it would be done differently. As it stands now, games often gate away content behind things like pre-ordering, and that's an awful thing. Publishers expect everyone wanting to get the whole experience a game has to offer to pre-order, which is A LOT to ask from many people that are aware of the risks and implications of doing so. Again, I'd like it if it were done differently... How? I'm not sure at the moment.
Hmm... Maybe if people were honest and offered actual rewards to people who pre-ordered instead of penalties for those who do not, and those rewards wouldn't be tied to the game experience as much...? This could work in an ideal world.
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The only game I ever pre-ordered was Tomb Raider 2 or 3 for the PSX. The price was the same as a regular game and it came with a TR-themed bottle of shampoo ;)
Nowadays, why pay for the privilege of getting a buggy game on release which then can cost a lot less a few weeks later?
Edit: congrats on 1k!
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I never ever preordered a game in my life. And I almost never buy on day one, as I wait for reviews, opinions and such.
I do bump though. Thank you very much for GAs :)
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The only time I pre-ordered a game was when my steam account was still an infant and I didn't have many games.
I bought XCOM Enemy Unknown and it came with Sim City V, two games I really wanted to play (and did). Don't regret it at all :)
Nowadays I own too many games and, since I don't play multiplayer or co-op games, nothing really interests me enough to buy at release, let alone before. The hype is not strong with yours trully, it seems ;)
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Hm, I'm glad to hear you got a good deal out of your purchase. :)
That's a very common thing among people with lots of games, we already have many things we can play in our spare time.
I, as well, very rarely, if ever, jump on a game shortly after release, only if it's something really spectacular (and I can afford it, of course). π
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I stoped pre-ordering stuff since they try to force me to it with extra content etc... i dont support these tactics...
In past i pre-ordered some games but only around a month before release and from AAA publishers to get sure i get a good game... like in Early Access where you need some experience to know wich games will be good and released... :3
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my thoughts... :)
this extra content is in many cases removed content just to have extra content for pre-order deals...
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Was burned in 2002 by buying Sunflowers "Anno 1503" (the sequel to one of my favourite games back then: "Anno 1602") on releaseday and the whole game was a shitty mess.
Minimap was white and not showing anything, gamecrashes, loading would cut back into the main menu, saves were not possible to load at all, some buildings were not working at all, the difficulty was really a mess and not balanced at all.
And how to fix it? They had a first bandaid "betapatch" on releaseday consisting of a whooping 300mb.
Back then, when having an internet flatrate wasn't normal and most had shitty internet that would take hours to days to get this downloaded....
Then in 2006 I bought Gothic 3 on release to get another unfinished mess/bugfest.
The game it could have been was always shining through, but it was littered with bugs everywhere.
Since then I never even bothered to get games on releaseday if I wasn't 100% sure it would have no common gamebreakers.
Considering this was way before preorders were a thing and games could actually be sold-out (because of high demand and real copies you know...) I never bothered with a preorder for any game.
If reviews showed it's mostly bugfree and good, I'd get it on/near releaseday.
If not..wait for a sale or until its mostly fixed.
Edit:
Oh wait after skimming through some comments..I just remembered I DID preorder one game....
Greenmangaming had a Preorder offer for Bioshock Infinite
Bioshock Infinite and The Darkness II Bundle 37.49 β¬
BioShock
The Darkness II
BioShock Infinite
XCOM
Couldn't resist THAT one :O
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Those developers were ahead of their time.
But wow, I had purchased Gothic 3 back then too, but, as a kid, I never thought about what I was getting, and I had no idea how games were made. So I played the game that way, and it kept freezing every half a minute and crashing from time to time, until I neared the end, where I encountered a game-breaking bug which didn't display certain NPCs. Man, I felt like crap...
The bundle you mentioned sounds good, those are some fine games, so it's fine that you got it. I'll stop with the weak puns
The way you do things now sounds like the best way to do it. :)
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Yeah the deal was awesome, though I still haven't gotten around to play either XCOM or The Darkness II despite knowing I'd like them or maybe even love them...but I played Bioshock a 2nd time after getting it on steam via this deal :D
That said 37β¬ for a release game that got good reviews and had no major bugs felt too good to pass (even with ignoring the 3 bonus games)..
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Yeah that is one of the reasons (despite not having enough time and too many other games) why The Darkness 2 never made it to being started...I HATE starting a (game-)series not with the first game. Even if often it's totally unneeded to know the prequel.
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too lazy to rewrite 10 walls of text I wrote to KA about preordering lately, so I will just leave a link
TL;DR Never Preorder - Even if it's your most wanted game from your most beloved studio - then just buy it at release. Just join fucking preorder culture!
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You weren't joking about the walls of text, but I read that, or at least most of it.
I very much agree with your view on the topic.
Not sure how I missed your thread, I too was wondering what people think about issues as the one you opened a discussion about, or stuff like Activision's disgusting microtransaction-based matchmaking patent and others, but thought that including them all in one thread would deter people from talking about any of them.
In here I was more actively looking forward to hearing the opinions of people in favor of pre-orders, because it's such a huge thing that it baffles me it's happening without a pertinent reason to happen. But, so far, no one has said anything about how beneficial pre-ordering is to the consumer. π
Edit: Oh, I see you had opened threads for the other things I mentioned too. Umm, I should check the discussions more...
Also, happy cake day! :)
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As for activision I also had topic on that xD
NON-EDIT-BUT-JUST-SAW-NOW: Yeah I tend to write replies paragraph by paragraph, so I wrote a reply b4 readin you noticed other topic ;p
Anyway, KA in linked discussion brought up a few arguments pro-preorder. I do not agree with them but it doesn't mean they are senseless, simply means I believe my arguments oughtweight his ;p
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Not senseless, just... risky, more for the industry's view on consumers than for a particular individual who follows that reasoning.
If enough people do the same it could pose a big threat for everyone involved in purchasing games.
In other words, accepting extra content in exchange of blind trust is a sure way to get really screwed eventually.
So, from my point of view as well, being pro digital pre-purchasing isn't necessarily wrong, just not as right as not endorsing it is. π
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thing is I partially agree with him - if you are REALLY carelul your preorders will not turn out shitty, at least mostly. But thing is they will still show up in all suits' charts showing how great preorder business is. And most of people will not be as safe as you are because they are casuals. So even if you add preorder to good game - you still add to all preorders as well, showing corporates how good ALL preorders all, not just how good preorders for good games are.
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I dont see reasons to preorder π
2 examples:
Π°) i bought dishonored 2 preorder bonus for just $0,9 week ago.
b) preorder bonus for Worms W.M.D became free-for-all
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Well, not really. People who pre-order are notorious for having no memory and/or no self-control. They pre-order, get burnt, promise to never pre-order anything again, see something new and shiny from the same company, pre-order it, get burnt again, etc.
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I think I've never pre-ordered any game but if I've had lots of money I could do it for some games I'd be sure to have fun with (for example Football Manager) :)
Also I'd like to ask for a WL - there are a few games from my wishlist here but I'm interested in entering only in Satellite Reign and Guild of Dangeonsomething (cannot memorize how to write it properly). Be aware though that I am not sure when I'll play the game, it looks interesting but you know... work and backlog. If you'd prefer to leave it for people who are able to play it right away, it's cool - I did it a lot of times too, so I won't be disappointed :)
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Thank you, that's very kind of you! I*v*I
Sadly I have nothing more to say cos I don't really mind what people do with their money :) My brother buys preordera for every Fifa and he waa never disappointed but I can see some people might get frustrated they don't have what they wanted. Guess I wouldn't mind buying preorder if I had money but on the other hand I usually don't see a reason why I should buy it earlier (if I could afford it).
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No problem, you aren't forced to answer.
There's usually no reason to do it earlier than the release date, as far as I'm concerned, maybe some minor bonuses in some cases.
About FIFA, I guess you can't be too disappointed since every new game is just like the last one but with updated teams. π
I'm joking, I couldn't know since I've rarely played them. :P
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Regarding Fifa there are always changes in gameplay, for example the newest one is more enjoyable for me than the last one. Although my brother is concerned that it is also way easier to score a goal so he's waiting for some updates. Pretty much the same with Football Manager - it's actually almost the same game every year but I guess it also takes a lot of time to scout every single player even from minor leagues and give them appropriate attributes (it's even more complex in FM than in Fifa). And every year the same work since players' form constantly changes.
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i used to preorder one or two games a long time ago when there was some benefit to it (bonus free games, marketable tf2 items... russian trading...), but not any more. Theres just no point as far as im concerned.
Side note.. does anyone actually remember when preorders used to have bars that filled up based on how many people preordered, and at certain milestones, more 'rewards' got unlocked? Always thought that was kinda cool. I guess publishers these days think so little of us that we're not even worth preorder marketing gimmicks any more :( man.. that really hurts, when you think about it, lol.
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I have only ever pre-ordered a game once. That was BioShock Infinite and it took me A LOT of thinking to even consider it. But they gave us XCOM: Enemy Unknown "for free" with it, it had a slight discount, I really liked the previous BuoShocks and I already knew the game was gonna be good because I trusted the studio that made it to do a good job. So I was all "eh, why not".
It was cute and all when they were trying to give people a reason to pre-order by adding a bunch of bonuses (as with the example I gave above) but thanks to out "lovely" corporate publisher assholesoverlords nowadays those bonuses are stuff that they cut out of the friggin' games. If they even put bonuses in the first place. And the games got more expensive. And they probably put lootboxes or some other eye-twitch-inducing bullshit in them. So between the fact that I have completely lost my trust in the gaming industry and the fact that my stinginess levels have skyrocketed, I am never pre-ordering anything ever again. :D
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Someone else mentioned the same BioShock deal, that is a good one. π
Fair points you're making. The AAA industry especially is in a pretty sad state at the moment, with very few companies refraining from abusing their customers... And yes, it's much much more expensive owning a whole game today than it used to be, in some cases you'll never even get the whole game.
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Good day, Steamgifts!
I want to chat with you over a cup of tea, coffee or another beverage of your choice, about a topic which I don't see directly addressed here. π
Do you pre-order video games?
If you do, why do you choose to do this? Do you see any advantages in it? Is it to support some particular developer or publisher?
Talk about your experiences. And regardless of doing it or not, what's your opinion on the popular culture of pre-ordering?
I'm curious what you have to say.
I, for one, never do it because I don't see any advantage to pre-purchasing games, especially when it comes to purchasing on Steam or other digital platforms, where the acquisition of games isn't limited by number of copies available.
I'm also a bit skeptic of games until they came out and mostly like to wait for reviews of the game before purchasing.
Relevant picture below...
Update on the talk:
Many of you have answered my question and given your varied opinions on the topic. Thanks for joining.
My main curiosity was how much of our community supports the practice, but I found out much more.
Besides talking about pre-purchasing specifically, I have heard a lot of views on purchasing games in general and the particularities of certain games you guys enjoy supporting through pre-purchasing (in many of its forms, like crowdfunding or the usual pre-order through Steam).
The following thing is an opinion. Honestly in this debate no one can actually be wrong, just not as right. π
Many of you have pointed out an idea with which I agree:
Yes, it is much better from an individual buyer's standpoint to wait until a game reaches a big discount in order to purchase that game, even more so if that person already has a backlog filled with games waiting to be played in the meantime. You can't force someone not to do this, and if you want to save money it's the best choice.
But, I'm pretty sure the industry needs people to purchase games immediately after launch, otherwise it wouldn't function as it does.
With that in mind, I suggest to all of you (and I should do this myself from time to time) to invest a little more in games you pretty much know you will like, buying them early. That sort of thing keeps developers moving forward. π
About pre-ordering them, I'm not so sure I'd suggest it even in that case. It's, again, beneficial from a personal point of view, but as some of you have said as well, I believe it affects the gaming industry at large in a negative way, showing publishers that pre-ordering is endorsed by us.
It's not an intrinsically bad thing, but it leaves a lot of space for abuse, and a bit of consumer skepticism is always good.
That's it, thanks.
Also, I've reached 1000 sent games, so cheers to that! β
Here are some more giveaways, since you guys seem to be loving these things.
I haven't prepared ahead, so there's no big special giveaway this time, just bundled things I had stacked over time, most of them from Humble.
I've made a table for your convenience.
Hope you enjoy the giveaways and that the level requirements are fair.
You can bump the thread even if you don't want to talk about it, but it's not necessary to do it just because you entered a giveaway. Feel free not to bump, keep the giveaways a secret in case you want more winning chances. π
*Let me know if you want to temporarily (or not, who knows) join my whitelist, in case you are really interested in playing Guild of Dungeoneering and want a shot at it. Just leave a comment if it's the case. Some other guys from my whitelist also had the game wishlisted, and it just happened to be lying around here.
Damn, I should've made a poll.
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