Does this sound like a better idea for paying for mods?
Mods, in general, are not made with money in mind. You remember Counter-strike? That was a mod, and not one of the best. Its all about what you can make your mod into, not charging upfront for it.
If mods are to be paid, game devs should be having the most benefit from it, not valve. Go make a mod for a non-existing game, I dare you.
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My only real disagreements with this system are that it relies on Steam, that the revenue share is poor, and that it was introduced with a game that's already been around for a few years. I think that as long as a developer is willing to let people sell mods for their game, and they make their stance clear at the time the game is released with a reasonable license, then that's all that should matter. If players don't agree with it, they can voice their opinion about it and choose not to support the game.
The quality of a mod cannot be measured objectively - one weapon that someone really wants is worth more than a universe that they don't want. Modders should be free to charge what they feel their work is worth, players are free to pay if they agree with the price or go without it if they don't.
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I realize that mod devs should be free to charge what it's worth, that's why i said they still have the final say, although a suggested price may be given to those mod devs from the people who "test" their mod, based on an average of the people who give a suggested price.
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I guess that would be reasonable, on two conditions - first, that it's private, and secondly, that the mod dev can choose not to allow the petition option. Some developers would find a feature like that useful, but others would find it just insulting, and it's likely to end up with trolls dropping the value of everything.
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The modder only get 25% of the listed price. 40% goes to the developer of the game and 35% goes to vale. Mods should be free unless the modder chooses to sell it because it changes the game totally such as a map pack or a whole new quest line. Cosmetic mods such as swords and texture packs should be free. Overall I think it is a good idea to support modders to give them something for what they love doing but Valve is not the best platform for now. Valve won't allow you to withdraw the cash earned until they earn 100$ of their 25% so this means they have to sell 400$ worth of mods which is slightly high think. I think that 50% mod 30%dev and 20% valve and they should stop fake/copied mods going on the market.
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Mods build upon the existing assets and expenses of a developer/publisher. Significant intellectual property, operating/capital expenses, etc. IF a modder is going to PROFIT on these existing resources that are often MUCH more substantial than the modder's own investment, 40% to developers for "licensing" doesn't bother me.
Personally, I liked mods being free hobby projects by gamers who loved their games. Like one? Donate!
If it's not baroque.....
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I mean , the mod creator can still put the mod for free if he so desires ...
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- buy the mod
- let steam download it
- get to the data folder and back up the mod files
- ask for a refund
- enable the mods on the skyrim launcher
- ?!?
- profit!
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That's just piracy, though, and not permitted on these forums.
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it's not, just a lack of security from steam
i paid for it legally, i asked for a refund legally and they leaved me the mod there, i'm not sharing or selling it so it's not piracy
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When you ask for a refund, you agree to stop using the files. If you choose to continue using them, then you're using them without the legal right to do so. There are many laws in life which are easy to break, but try using that as a defence.
Of course, Steam aren't going to take the effort to chase anyone up on this unless it's costing them more than the legal fees would, but it's still a terrible attitude to have.
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the thing is I don't care anymore
that's right, i dont care... steam was great with the previous non-legal features that they were aware of and did nothing to fix over years like the region locks, let's be honest here, they could have added those locks to every region a long time ago but they didn't and we all cleary know that they don't profit as much as before so they are doing this to cover the wound and get some of the money that steam used to make before
just because they finally decided to do the "right and legal" now and struggle for more... and it's pathetic
I understand if you don't agree with me but steam and valve have made much worst then "keeping a refunded mod" that shouldn't be paid at the first place, without even saying that those 75% should go to the game developers and not valve and even if the mods and the mods developers are great i wont be feeding this crap.
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I sympathise and we're probably on the same side in general, we just have different approaches to fighting it. :) The trouble is, people think we have two choices - either do things Steam's way, or do things the pirate way. People seem unwilling to consider that, with enough support, there's still an opportunity for a better, legal alternative to Steam, and by encouraging that competition, Steam itself will be forced to improve too.
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if i was on the "pirate way" like i was a few years ago i would be sharing the crap out of this mods right now :P
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A google search shows the definition of piracy includes "the unauthorized use or reproduction of another's work" - if you use it and don't share it, or share it and don't use it, it's still piracy. Anyway, I think the better option is to reward those who don't use the system rather than trying to punish those who do. Sharing paid mods freely still encourages people to use those mods, and that could lead other people to buying them. By recommending and encouraging people to use freely available mods instead, people are less likely to support paid mods at all, which appears to be your aim.
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once again i really dont care, steam will fix this if they want to, just like they did with the region locks
they are abusing mods that are not even protected from being sold and they should be more then aware of it yet they still took the risk just for money
i'm not encouraging piracy because a steam account with skyrim is required in the first place, it's also required to pay for it and if for some reason the user is unhappy with it a refund is available and obviously if there's not way to protect a mod but the refund is still available it means that valve could not care less
i have made my point here and i will no longer keep feeding this discussion, mods should not be sold, piracy is ilegal, guess what? be happy because homeless people are also legal even if they dont like it!
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Im totally cool with spending few $ on a good content for a game i enjoy .
Duno why everyone keeps losing his shit bout Mods becoming paid , like its the end of the world or something.
The thing its Optional , and the mod creator can decide to still share it for free ...
So i cant really blame valve for the option to actually monetize your content on their platform , its a good thing for me.
As for the % of money the creator takes , thats up to the Dev to decide ... alltho 25% sounds like small number , it has been like that for Dota2 Workshop for ages now , so i dont find a problem with that either.
The main issues i see with it its that random people can upload someone else's work and monetize it instead ... that , and maybe alil bit of Quality Control ... there is some retarded shit trying to be sold right now :)
Overall i see it working fine in couple months time , with alil bit of feedback from the community , and not just crying for the sake of crying , and condemning the whole idea cause Reasons
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What I'm failing to see is how this is any different than TF2/CS:GO/Dota 2 community made items being sold in the marketplace. Extending that system to mods in the workshop seems like the next evolution of the community marketplace. As I understand it, mod makers can choose either a fixed price or a pay what you want system with a fixed minimum. If they are able choose the latter option with a minimum of free, then it's no different than having donations. That would be the best fix.
I can see why people are upset, but they're overreacting as usual. It's not mandatory for mod makers to have a price, and it's not mandatory for every game using the workshop to have this system. All mods aren't behind a paywall. Some workshop mods are, but the Nexus mods are still free. People just need to calm down.
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The main difference with those is that any content which is sold is chosen by and supported by the devs for those games, and so is basically an official part of the game itself. While the potential lack of official support for paid mods is one of the complaints going around (and one which really needs to be addressed), the wider issue is that people have very mixed views on modding in general. Gaming in general is torn - some things are going in a more closed direction, while other things are opening up, and sometimes it's hard to tell which, which is especially true with Steam. Modding is an area which for a long time has had no clear rules and everyone has their own idea of what the modding community is and why they're passionate about it - this is a major step towards some kind of legal standard for modding, and that excites some and terrifies others.
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although i don't like that low 25% share and don't understand why game developer should receive more than mod creator, you should look from creators' point of view - they spent their time making something, why shouldn't they get something in return?
i get that everyone wants everything for free while they're not in creator's shoes, but once there, opinion might change
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The problem with the discussions about this in SG is that people who use a few mods or don't use any are the vocal ones here. Because I cannot imagine anyone who uses over a 100 mods for Skyrim to defend and advocate this kind of business. If every mod in your current list becomes paid-only, you'll have to pay 100-200 dollars or even more if you want to use all of them. You already paid for the game and its dlcs. Now you are expected to pay for its mods which may be full of bugs and be incompatible with each other. The modder has no obligation to continue support for his/her mods and may just take the money and run. The modding community is based on trust. It is based on trust because people use each others assets and resources. Right now, many modders are pulling their resources off the internet.
Now imagine if you had to pay not only for the mods of Skyrim but for the mods of every major game out there. Suddenly the amount of money that you spend on games has exponentially doubled or even tripled. Unless of course you decide not to purchase and use mods anymore.
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Just because someone uses a large amount of currently freely available content doesn't give them any more right to say what anyone should do. They have the most to lose and are understandably voicing their concerns, but have they necessarily done anything to deserve to keep things the way they are?
There are modding quality/compatibility/legality issues, and there needs to be better competition on distribution (the 75% fee right now is a bit high), but I think most of these issues will be dealt with in time, with appropriate regulations and by people spending their money wisely. I think people are getting into a panic before anything's even happened here, beyond the initial shock and a few teething issues. In the long run, if the mod market turns out to be a disaster where everyone's just ripping each other off, then no intelligent person is going to use it and no harm will be done.
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if you demand that mods should be free, you should be stop from modding your games, go with the consoles you dont deserve mods.
I dont like such entitled actitudes, mods exist because of people who put their knowledge and time to make them.
A donation system would just solve this issue. And valve and bethesda still can take a cut of the donations why not, just give them more than 25% thats terrible.
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While I'm all for donations as an option, I feel it shouldn't be a forced option - it doesn't seem appropriate to say that modders aren't allowed to charge up front, when pretty much any other creative profession is. Of course, people will argue with that and say that modding isn't a profession, but most things aren't a profession until there's a market for them, and this will prove whether there is or not.
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markets sort themselfs out, if this is going to be a thing, there will be some guys who only upload payed stuff, and offcourse theres also going to be "newcomers" who will want to break trough by making free stuff.
payed mods that arent worth it, wont get any attention while good one at good prices might create new professions wich could be cool.
Donations could work, but will never know, how much money a donatios based system vs a pay wall system would work for creatos.
this payed system creates too many problems for it to be worth it.
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Ok, so here's my basic opinion (heaven forbid the rest of the world hates me for sharing my opinion) on valve's new mod avalibility for mod makers to make money (or Pay2Mod, as i call it):
Mods, in general, should be free. HOWEVER; serious mod developers also need a way to earn a little extra boost for the hard work they put into modding (i.e i shouldn't have to pay a dime for One weapon, but I'm fine with paying $1-$5 for a mod that generates a whole new experience for the game, like a series of quests with new loot to gain from them). So, i would like to propose a new idea for steam's new Pay2Mod:
Let every mod become free, with the option to support the developers on the side (similar to pay what you want for already paid mods, but instead of a list of options you would just be given an empty box to enter a value to give to the dev's/steam tax).
If, a mod dev thinks they deserve their mod to be Pay2Mod, then they should, when uploading their mod to the steam workshop, click a checkmark to have their mod be reviewed by a select group of people (weather this would be players who opt to participate in such a program, or hired valve employees, I'm not to sure.) Next to the checkmark, they can put their asking price and steam would show them what they would recieve (similar to when you offer something on the community market) or vise-versa. The team would then vote on, after playing the mod enough to understand all of it's features and all of it's bugs, weather or not the mod should be paid and, if it is paid, how much they would pay for such a mod. That way, when the dev get's a notification in steam/by email that his mod has finished the review session, they can decide how much they actually want to put it on the market for. If it's above the price the review team suggested, then steam should display a message to the consumer next to the price of what the suggested price was. The dev has the power to change their price if enough people petition (a checkmark near the mod price) for a lower price. If the price meets or is lower than what the review team suggested, then you can only petition AFTER purchasing the mod, that way people can't just cheat the mod developer's of their money that they (theoreticlly) deserve.
I feel like the above system i just mentioned is a much more easier way to make sure that mod dev's get what they deserve, while keeping the community at a (somewhat) rest for being able to freely mod their game. Feel free to share your opinions below, weather on this or on paying for mods in skyrim in general. Please, do not post your copy/paste of bob's tank to stop paying for mods, I'm not the one who needs to see that. And yes, i have signed the petition for valve to stop paid mods, so no need to share that with me (although click here if you're interested)
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