Two days ago this thread was closed by a member of support, following the guideline 'Do not ask users for payments or donations for any reason'. The rest of the guideline says: 'Fees to gain access to gifting groups, or attempts to raise money for lotteries or giveaways is not allowed.', which suggests that it is not meant to prevent users from asking for help, but for people attempting to raise money to support giveaways. I would like this to be made clear in the guidelines.

That post was made by a (friend of a) person for whom SG is their main community. Some people of the community were willing to help, and without the ability to post this, that person would have received no help. If we think of SG as a community, and not just a game exchange site, we must allow this kind of post.

11 months ago

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Should posts asking for personal help be allowed?

View Results
Yes
No

the poll isn't very clear on what you are asking
Should posts asking for personal help be allowed?: yes it's fine, as long as you only ask for advice/simple help and don't ask for money or a donation or anything like that.

11 months ago
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I can't edit the poll, but I think in context it should be clear that I'm talking monetary help.

11 months ago
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If you just mean that than I stand with my answer for it ^^

11 months ago
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if it was allowed the forums would be filled with sob stories with 98% of them being fake.

its sad but that's what happens. people can always contact a mod and ask for a exception.

10 months ago
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I was surprised by the lock of that thread as it was up for a really long time until it got locked. I cant understand why if it wasnt allowed by the mods it got locked some months later....
Anyway back in the OP i think it should be allowed as long as its for important reasons like the health of somebody and not for begging some extra cash or cards or games etc.

11 months ago
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I was surprised by the lock of that thread as it was up for a really long time until it got locked. I cant understand why if it wasnt allowed by the mods it got locked some months later....

And why at least one support member encouraged people to donate...

What matters most is enforcing the guidelines and rules that are in place.

11 months ago
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What matters most is enforcing the guidelines and rules that are in place.

No, it doesn't. Enforcing rule and following them without question is bad practice.

11 months ago
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Wouldn't be a problem if the guidelines were clear.

11 months ago
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The rules have been pretty clear and straightforward and consistent on this matter- no soliciting monetary donations of any sort through any method, no tying giveaway entry to completing a special [non-filter] action (such as non-monetary donation- eg, through one-click/vote sites), and anything with a direct benefit (eg, boosting your site or your personal fundraiser) must be posted within a giveaway or the group recruitment thread.

Precedence aside, I personally had no difficulty extrapolating this from the written guidelines alone; of course, additional clarity in the FAQ is always beneficial (to those actually willing to read through it).

11 months ago
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I cant understand why if it wasnt allowed by the mods it got locked some months later....

It should have been locked from the beginning, but Support Staff are human. Nobody is perfect.

11 months ago
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Need to hire this guy to the Support Staff.

View attached image.
11 months ago
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Yes and i completely agree with it thats why i was confused when i saw that the thread was locked.

11 months ago
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Not perfect? common! :'D

A: team ignored it because jbondu is respected user and friend of many here...
B: team is like the community says the whole time "WAY TO SMALL!"

If mods are not able to close such a thread in 24 hours it's unable to keep this forum in a healthy state... oh and look it isn't... :O

All respects for Miyuu (we talk sometimes) and Cg&Co for making this site but your post is showing again that stuff is going very wrong on your site...

11 months ago*
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11 months ago*
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(More like Staff temporarily forgot the rule and/or overlooked the post altogether in the shuffle. Then, someone helpfully reminded us and pointed it out.)

11 months ago
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11 months ago
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Indeed.

11 months ago
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Then, someone helpmully reminded us

🤔

11 months ago
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Pls no talking about monetary help and no begging..its a gaming related site here, the world is already a sick and unfair place we all know, but pls use other sites and let us keep SG free of this.

11 months ago
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I second this

11 months ago
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Me too!

11 months ago
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I don't even feel that SG is suitable community for this kind of dynamic.

And that's outside my personal feelings on these type of approaches.

11 months ago
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11 months ago
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+1

11 months ago
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This.

11 months ago
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So instead of helping the word be a somewhat better place we should just put our heads in the sand and play our blacklisting and level games?

11 months ago
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I don't know about you, but I try to make the world a better place wherever I go, in accordance with whatever restrictions there may be. P

11 months ago
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Guilt tripping is a pretty lame way to get people on your side.
EDIT
I also don't know how to find the bit about "help the world be a somewhat better place". That might just end up being subjective and going on person to person basis because we all have different causes and things we agree with. In the end, lacking empathy for things so extremely far removed from us is common sense. If we felt empathetic to every person on the planet we would be miserable every second of our lives. You gotta draw the line somewhere.

11 months ago*
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On the contrary, if we felt empathetic to every person we'd not only feel good, but humanity as a whole will feel much better.

11 months ago
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I don't think it would be wise for SG.
SG has no ways to verify how valid the requests are, without throwing support staff into it however the support staff already has too much work to do, this would cause people to abuse and try to scam users for money.

It's safer for SG and it's users to just not allow that type of content to be spread here if it can't protect it's users from potential scams.

11 months ago
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Was just about to say this. There's already some trouble as it is with confirming that giveaways are legitimate, so God knows how much trouble there'd be in doing the same for people asking for donations if it became widespread. It's just an added mess which isn't even the aim of this site.

At the same time, I've seen public giveaways asking for donations... so that they can make more giveaways... which I find pretty funny every time :P

11 months ago
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Others been closed in the past so i always questioned the double standards why this was kept open.
And if you allow one, it could just basically be setting up a flood eventually to much more, it's already maybe the reason why some people think they can open a thread and beg for a game, thinking we are charity.

11 months ago
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While I agree with the sentiment, if cg would allow this, what would stop anyone from writing "hey SG, best community, my father’s brother’s nephew’s cousin’s former roommate needs 1 million dollars, please help"?

I kinda wonder, if someone not-well-known would write same post, would we support him or eat him with "no begging rule" in 5 seconds...

11 months ago
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How many outright scams would the community stand? As I could see enough 0day accounts popping up over the time.

11 months ago
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Not just scams..
You can count every wannabe streamer and youtuber begging for donations so the can "put out more quality content" ... "quality" being in a very huge quotation marks..
Everyone now wants to earn fast with least amount of work.. So they would just pump out thread after thread of stuff like that.

11 months ago
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That's what the guidelines are for. The guidelines specifically go against asking for money to create content, get games, or things like that. Making an exception for personal causes won't invalidate this.

11 months ago
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I don't think there's need to stop a practice that's not yet proved to be a problem. On the other hand I think there's need to allow people in an online community to act as a community if they so wish.

11 months ago
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I'm going to agree with what people have said so far.

While we are a community and to many of us this website is more than just a site where we share games, I think rules should remain as they are regarding people asking for payments and donations to avoid the possible flood of such threads, where some or most of them could possibly end up being scams.

Our mods wouldn't have the time to regulate such threads and check whether or not are they legitimate.

11 months ago
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11 months ago
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Thank you for reminding me about that post. Fixed.

11 months ago
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11 months ago
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To be fair, said thread did not originally have any donation links until I offered ones that I had personally verified. I suggested said donation possibilities as the thread evolved organically and people asked how to help. Not saying it should be an exception or anything, but simply that the thread existed for quite some time without any donation links at all (nor was that its original intent).

11 months ago*
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11 months ago
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I dont think there is any real need for it

it would open up a huge can of worms and giving people incentive to make up false stories and asking for money.

11 months ago
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If we think of SG as a community, and not just a game exchange site, we must allow this kind of post.

The point, however, is that SG is a game-exchange raffle-giveaway site, not a social hub like Tumblr.

It is important that our users consider whether or not their posts adhere to the site's guidelines, making any changes or adjustments necessary to ensure their posts are permissible. While SteamGifts allows a user to advertise off-site content within giveaway descriptions, solicitation of payments or donations is prohibited on this site.

Examples:

"I am involved in "Cause X." Further details may be found on my Steam page." (allowed)

"Please support this cause by donating. Here are the details." (not allowed)

11 months ago*
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That made my think about this three situations:
"I have problems. Need money. Here's my gofundme" - obviously not allowed
"I have problems. Here's my gofundme" - allowed or not?
"I have problems. Here's my steam page that is just a link to gofundme" - allowed or not?

This situation might turn into some can of worms, cg might want to announce some final ruling what is ok and what is not when it comes to advertising such stuff...

11 months ago
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"I have problems. Here's my steam page that is just a link to gofundme" - allowed or not?

that's like posting:

"I like games. Here's my wishlist and trade link"

obviously begging, even if it's hidden as an indirect begging attempt like 99% of sg replies in bundle threads ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

11 months ago
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Thing is, what's the difference between this and "I am involved in "Cause X." Further details may be found on my Steam page" which apparently is allowed (beside my examples being more selfish, but I was just making most basic examples, you can replace "I have" with "Random People have")?

Or "Cause X" by default cannot be gathering any donations?

11 months ago
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Mully is correct. Both direct and indirect solicitation are prohibited on SG. For that reason, all three of the examples you listed would be disallowed. Let us take a closer look at two of the examples given on this page.

"I am involved in Cause X. Additional details may be found on my Steam page."

(Informative, followed by a redirect to Steam for more information on cause X should it be desired.) In this example, no solicitation is made, neither in the first part nor the second. It is understood that the Steam page will include information on Cause X. Even if a gofundme link was to be included on the Steam page, no mention of it is made in the SG posting, nor is the reader encouraged to take any action (directly or otherwise).

"I have problems. Here's my steam page. (The Steam page including only a gofundme link.)"

(Informative appeal for sympathy, followed by a redirect to Steam for some unspecified reason.) In this example, the first part might qualify as an appeal for sympathy, but that is allowed on the site. The second part, however, is ambiguous. A reader might infer that the Steam page is presented because the author wants something, but no mention is made of what that might be. As the Steam page contains only the gofundme link, it is apparent that donations are what is wanted, thereby making the second part of the SG post an indirect solicitation (and therefore prohibited).

11 months ago
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You do know my examples were very crude, but all in all, it appears having links to page that has links to gofundme are ok as long as you write lot of text beside the link and don't make it about yourself.

Not sure if that was your point, but that's how it appears.

11 months ago
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TL; DR: No soliciting on SG. Leave that for other sites/places.

11 months ago
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SG is a game-exchange site, not a social hub like Tumblr.

A couple years and threads ago, not anymore.

I will keep that for myself

11 months ago
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If its for direct helping for someone in need (ie sickness,poor family who needs food and such) then i think its ok, otherwise im not sure.

and on top of that if so i think the person cause who does that should be verified with Support Staff - so no scams of sort will happen.

11 months ago
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I agree (with some of you) about making the guidelines clearer and more explicit, according to whatever the Support team decides, and then we stick to what they decide to the letter, however, as it is still slightly ambiguous, and there are currently double standards, such as personal help for family, or help through official means for the whole state, against simple stuff like “begging for games”, shouldn’t our community be allowed to express their support in whatever means (example donating giveaways as bumps to keep the thread going), to me personally it just seems the community is willing to help, but we should still make the guidelines more specific to YES ALLOWED or NOPE NOT AT ALL instead of the current “Erm this might be okay but it also might not be” so yeahhhh, anyways just a lil commentt

11 months ago
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Some level 10 users are already advertising their personal causes in their giveaways, so either allow it for everybody or don't.

11 months ago
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i even saw a lvl 9 guy o.O

11 months ago
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As the creator of said thread, I just want to put it out there that I understand and am not angry with support's decision to take down the thread - They know what is right and wrong for the community better than I ever will. I created the thread against all odds and fully aware than I could get suspended for it if it somehow fell into the "begging" rules set. I did so because getting suspended would have been a small price to pay to attempt to help people I care about.

I'm just glad that either support intentionally overlooked the thread for a while, or it simply slipped through the watchful eyes and tight nets of support in some way, giving a chance to the thread to prosper before being killed off (yes, a bit scummy of me but I don't care, I think what I did was right).

I've just reviewed the guidelines and now realize that I was indeed breaking a rule, while not extremely clear, it was certainly implied that what I've done isn't allowed. To quote the guidelines:

When posting links or content, that content should not force users, encourage users through reward, or primarily exist as a traffic source for users to perform an action for promotional, commercial, or monetary benefit. Such actions include but are not limited to clicking a referral link, liking a Facebook page, following a Twitter account, joining a Steam group, completing a survey, or making a donation.

I've highlighted the relevant parts - Bottom line is... it appears I was indeed breaking a rule. I think the only reason it stayed up for so long is that none of the support members wanted to be "that one evil mod" who closes charity threads, but the fact is that if the rules dictate that we shall not make these kind of posts, then it is support's duty to enforce that rule, without exception. This is why I'm not blaming support - I'm pretty sure at least a few of them intentionally took their time to get to it, but it had to be done eventually.

11 months ago
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Thanks for making that thread.

11 months ago
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shows how people love to make exceptions for friends. if that thread was made by a lv0 guy it would have been instantly closed and the user blacklisted/called out 100 times in a second. 👍

11 months ago
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But of course the behaviour towards the Level 0 guy would have been the bad one. You seem to be implying that it's the other way round.

11 months ago
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i don't know what i'm implying, i think i was pretty clear. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

11 months ago
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ET3D is saying that blacklisting/calling out the level 0 guy is bad. Creating such a thread by a level 0 guy isn't bad (in ET3D's opinion).

You are implying creating such thread by a level 0 guy (or anyone) is bad.

Hence why ET3D said: "You seem to be implying that it's the other way round.".

11 months ago
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Allow asking for donations to causes (not giveaway related ones)

No, just no. We'd have every scammer, YT creator, and Twitch streamer on the planet setting a collection bin by their SG account.

11 months ago
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No we won't.

11 months ago
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Yes, we will.
See how that works?

11 months ago
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title
Allow begging

WD

11 months ago
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People don't even bother posting thanks for winning games, those guys would never donate anything, not even a handshake.

11 months ago
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Unfortunately thats the case.

11 months ago
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Perhaps not, but a few people did donate. I imagine that those guys not posting thanks are also those who think that donating is a bad thing.

11 months ago
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11 months ago
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Personally I agree with you, as long as the person who creates the thread isn't getting any personal gain from it I don't see the problem. Sadly most people here are overcautious. Sure it's a gaming site, but for me it's also a community. Why have a forum at all if you don't want people to socialize? Sadly Mully also has a point that if some random person posted that exact same thread, it would get burned to the ground.

11 months ago
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I would like if some FREE PHILANTHROPIC causes would be permitted here.

Some BAD users reported me for giving link to promote "BOINC research", a way od donating your computer to science & research.
Had a ban for a few days, 'cause of mentioning the site here in comments (not going to do it again). But some promotional things like asking help, giving to charity or to research should be permitted.

Though, it's up to mods to change the rules. I'm only putting my comment. ;)

10 months ago
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