Is DRM good for gaming?
This is what I got when I tried to play DX:MD while my internet was down. The store page for DX:MD doesn't mention the use of 3rd party DRM still.
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Denuvo is a dealbreaker for me (With one exception where I already knew the game.)
I'm not a pirate.. (at least not a game pirate) but I will not pay for that crap. All it does is punish legit owners having a layer of crap on the game that makes it run meh at best, and like trash at worst.
Doesn't help that games have got silly pricetags now, don't get released in a "Finished and Stable" format, and get loaded with DLC and Pay2Win.
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Alright, I've been wondering why I'm having fps drops with tekken 7 recently, damn denuvo did it again. I got my hopes up, I thought they're removing denuvo from tekken.
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so the FPS issue started recently,, seems kind of strange if it was Denuvo causing the issue if it would crop up all of a sudden after a patch.. Sounds like a case of blaming something else for their borked up patch.. but meh, who knows..
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That could be the case, but hey, it's not just tekken. for some reason, when denuvo gets removed from the game, they perform better. I wonder what's up. also, (I don't have reliable sources) but I heard, DRM's comes last (obviously). basically, you patch it locally first, then have the DRM team do their work, back to the devs for some test, and then publish.
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I don't know people tried to blame the performance issues on Denuvo in the case of batman arkham knights, but it actually had to do with a shoddy port job.. after the port was cleaned up, the game runs so much smoother, just played it yesterday and it was as smooth as the previous games..
Had nothing to do with Denuvo as it's still on the game, I'm tired of talking about Denuvo in all honesty, people want to use excuses to pirate games so have at it.. apprently lots of pirates or pirate supporters infest these boards.. no need to even try having an anti piracy stance here, just leads to you getting attacked..
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It sounded like you didn't read the 2nd link that he posted. anyway, I don't condone Piracy, and as a legit user, I find it annoying when pirated version has better build.
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I read both links, it's the developer shifting the blame for performance issues that started with the last patch onto the anti-tamper software.. Seems kind of strange that it would just start now after a patch, unless they were tinkering with the anti-tamper software, which I somehow doubt, but meh, I don't care anymore.. pirates are gonna do what they want to do.. the rest of us will be stuck here like.. these guys suck..
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Then you should know after every patch, denuvo also updates their DRM and inject them to the game again.
also, when you said you tested the game, I lost interest in your opinion, everyone has FPS drops on fireballs, are you saying you are the only one with smooth performance after that?
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Fireball, tested? I don't own Tekken 7, so I don't know about that game's performance, if people are getting FPS issues, I'll have to take their word on it as I don't own the game.. Never said I did.
As for Batman Arkham Knights, playing it tonight, it's running smooth as butter, just as good as previous games.. It ran like hot garbage prior to them pulling the game from steam,, even after they put it back up, performance was still kinda shaky.. I'm not sure if it was a video card update that smoothed it out, or the patch, but I'm not getting any FPS issues on BATMAN ARKHAM KNIGHTS atm.. My only point was about the performance issues being blamed on Denuvo when the game first released, when the reality was, it was a shoddy port job..
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Oh that was misleading I was talking about Tekken 7. and harada blaming denuvo for the recent fps drops. it's just too hard to believe 1 guy over many saying it's shit or not. me personally, I've seen the pirate copy runs better in my friend's computer, and after he bought it, it doesn't run as good. just because it only happened recently, doesn't mean they are not the suspect. you see, after every patch, they also update the game's DRM, it's not a one time inject. how did they figure out it's denuvo? well maybe they tested the original patch, and the issue only appears in the version with DRM, there are many ways to come to that conclusion and other ways that I probably don't know about, I'm only a front end dev to understand the basics.
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The worst thing is once the denuvo servers shut down all games using denuvo won't start unless denuvo is patched out.
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Dunno why would anyone pirate a game as a 'protest against DRM like Denuvo' though. That just makes the publishers want to use it even more. Wouldn't it be much better to just ignore such games instead? Vote with your wallet. >.<
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for the most part the I'm going to pirate the game to teach the developers a lesson crowd are just looking for excuses to pirate the game..
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I always see Steam posts titled OMG DENUVO NOT BUYING yet never have any issues myself. Not saying Denuvo (or any DRM) is perfect but I do think any issues there are may be are blown way out of proportion. As for Tekken 7 if it was working properly then stopped, something changed. Either they updated to the newest version of Denuvo (bad idea using the newest version of most anything) or they triggered a bug by updating their code causing it to contact the servers constantly.
Either way, just saying I don't think DRM is inherently evil, though I do think it works about as well as car door locks. It may keep out the casuals and will slow down others but if someone else wants what you've got, they're going to find a way to take it. ;) Also there's overhead added by having to remember to lock your doors, and sometimes you lock your keys in your car.
IMO not worth boycotting or pirating over but I can see where others take issue with it.
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no it doesn't.. that's a lie, it has no negative effect on your drive period, end of story..
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have any legit sources saying it ruins harddrives..
Kinda hard to ruin hard drives when the whole myth about it continually writing to the drive has been debunked quite hardly numerous times.. By both the publishers/developers and Denuvo's own statements.. but you know, random guys on random message boards have all the information..
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Please don't make me regret commenting, I still hope you'd -and anybody else reading this- be reasonable enough and at very least not rejecting more info. My point, well, 2 points are, Linus Tech Tips is well known and it's community is wide, it's not some random guy who doesn't know what he's talking about, I can't however speak for everyone in their forums tho. 2nd and more importantly, you can't seriously take the word of the same people who produce the thing we're err "untrusting" or rejecting; I mean, if there were a poison factory and they'd claim it's perfectly safe to drink, would you trust them? Seriously!
Now to your point (and others, aswell) If there's no concrete evidence that Denuvo interactions damages SSD's, there also isn't any proof it doesn't. Does this makes sense? you say there's no proof it does, well, I say there's no proof it doesnt, and no, publishers who paid and use it and the devs who created it can't be taken into consideration, it must be someone else, a third party not directly involved and credible. Another example, if in a trial, you'd (or a friend of yours, doesn't matter) be accused of a felony, then a relative, a parent, even a close friend couldn't really be taken into consideration as it'd be thought he/she could lie to protect you.
Same principle applies.
I personally tried Denuvo games. I don't like it and I'm strongly against it, but it's not because of the SSD possible damage, but for other reasons that OP mentions, but, since it takes TIME to see the hypotetical wear of the SSD, and maybe you'd be replaced the SSD by the time it reaches it's premature end of life, also called programmed obsolescence there's not at the moment sound proof, but that doesn't mean we have to love them and support them.
Think Denuvo was originally developed to act in the movie department, it wasn't meant to intervine in the gaming industry, but alas, the publishers like money, and as much time as possible to refrain people to try the game they might feel compelled to purchase it. Nothing wrong with that, it'severybody's money so it's their deal. BUT there's no more DEMOS anymore!
How would I know if it works? if I like it? more importantly, if it runs as it should and not dragged, ofuscated, bloathed my system with crap. Legit buyers should get the best performance without hindered crap. It's bad enough when they don't even port the games properly, let alone the performance affected by layers upon layers of drm. I'm talking about ACO VMProtect on top of Denuvo (more on that here), to be fair it got better after a few patches, but still... Nicely done, Ubi. Surely did not helped what WB did with the Batman Arkham Knight port fiasco. They had to send some compensation games to those who got it in such sorry state. I should know, I'm one of those :P
TL;DR => VMP on top of Denuvo/drm BAD for legit players. Bring back DEMOS!, publishers love money & they don't care about us.
Alright I've said enough and ended up rambling. Sorry! :D
Thanks truly if you got till here, I thank your mature attitude and good manners.
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Thanks for the well worded comment. Aside from DRM being detrimental to the user experience it doesn't help the industry either. Individuals not wanting/unable to pay will pirate the game anyway and no DRM in the world will stop them.
Why are there no demos? If your game is piss-poor I'd shy away too from offering a demo or handing out pre-release review copies.
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hehe no biggie wiggle (whoops almost a pun!)
We're still going around it, nothing changes (except maybe now it's more expensive), Steam price hike 500% or more, for my region at least. Dark times indeed!
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heh no wonder I wasn't recalling it, 4 years old haha. No matter, it unsurprisingly still stands, sadly.
Just few days ago I tried the DEMO for I am Future, and looks like far from devs being afraid nor trusting their product, they take our comments and suggestions to improve and deliver a better game. Seems like companies that hide behind the big bad D are scared of what we may think of their product, even worse by the fact that sometimes they dont even send review copies. Budget takes a big chunk to afford something that will compromise performance, modding and our system, money that doesn't go towards the game nor developers. Not cool.
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Piracy only hurts game studios, which means less great games being made.
GOG is nice and all but we're on steamgifts.com, not goggifts.com, so to pretend like you're going to jump from one client that dominates the PC market to another that most pc gamers don't even know about is silly.
I agree with the sentiment that you should never be locked out of a game you purchased, but things could be worse. Imagine if Valve started charging $10 a month to play games you bought that has online multiplayer, online(or even free games such as dota 2 or tf2). I know that sounds crazy but Playstation fanboys also thought it'd never happen, until it did.
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I never was the kind of guy of "could be worse", I try to improve the world around me, given my possiblilities. People migrates to a new platform if the platform offers a good alternative, with a better product. Ask yahoo about it.
I don't know about online only games, I don't play them. I travel, so I play lots of games on my laptop, so offline is frecuent for me. And I like single player story driven games, It's almost the only thing I play. Locking me out of my game, wiich I paid, even for a second, it's inadmissible.
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As a responsible gamer who cares about the industry and the people who work in it. I have no problem with Denuvo or any other DRM.
If a publisher demanded you removed your anti-virus software before you could play their games, would you find that acceptable?
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There are plenty of games to play. I hope that given the recent events with dead single player games no longer accessible for legit buyers, people would not fall again.
Time will tell.
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Bethesda games come with denuvo. Hi Fi rush also has it.
At this point it might be easier to confirm when a Bethesda game DOES NOT include Denuvo.
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Redfall will require also a permanent internet connection to play it also in singleplayer. it will be online-only
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Tbf, watching Arkane stoop this low as to make what looks like a L4D rip off, put me off more than the always online DRM.
Tango made something interesting and i bought it despite Denuvo
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It's part of Game Pass anyway so I'm checking out Redfall still.
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Just waiting for when you'll need to send your blood sample before you're able to run the game, just to make sure that it's 100% undoubtedly -you- who bought the game AND who is trying to play it.
I hate DRM, EU should do something about it coz nobody else will.
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That was a really interesting video, my only conclusion is, there's a lot of, if, and could, but.. Will they? I mean, if we look at how things are, it certainly doesn't look good for those idealistic scenarios.
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Agreed. Notice how most of her focus is on workplace productivity. There's your answer.
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This are old news, but I discover this notice today. I consider outrageous that a legal buyer can't play a game, or play a crippled version of it, while pirates have in improved version playable anywere, anytime, without FPS loses, and no limited activations.
I think that this DRM scalation nonsense must stop. I personally stopped buying games with denuvo, the only ones I have in my library are the ones that came with bundles.
https://www.dsogaming.com/news/denuvo-server-problems-prevented-players-from-playing-batman-arkham-knight-mad-max/
EDIT:
It's now happening with Tekken 7 (thanks for the link MightDes)
https://www.dsogaming.com/news/denuvo-causes-framerate-issues-in-tekken-7-according-to-katsuhiro-harada-fix-coming-soon/
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