Crazy times we live in!
so I came across this survey in one of my family chats, and it's about "Sexualization of women in video games"
and I know for a fact that im the only gamer in that group, its for undergrad stuff, cant remember all the details

but for some reason, the questions and answers available bothered me.
I thought id share it here to give some real gamers sample going for it
its short ~ 2 min
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfnyrLEx-E3ESnOayuMtcXNZHoKHyxk_IogNavHvZ9IRplwZA/viewform?usp=sf_link

and as always, its just an excuse to giveaway some "RPG"
"MP" why i never get cool codes? 2R8
"Mn" this looks cool but i gtg! ExQ

3 months ago

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The range of answers to some of the questions felt too narrow to me and the framing of the questions sometimes made assumptions which the person answering it may not agree with when answering.

I won't go into too much detail as I'm typing on my phone rn. Not that I wouldn't like to.

3 months ago
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that's what i felt! its like a mini Karen making it XD

3 months ago
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3 months ago
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Hopefully we can get more sexualization in video games, I don't see the problem in it. What ever happened to body positivity? Is it only allowed for people with a certain body type?

3 months ago
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3 months ago
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I don't buy games because of sexy characters I look for gameplay that looks entertaining. I also think people should buy the most comfortable underwear but they still use sexy people to model that stuff even if that says nothing about the product
I think the fight against big boobs in entertainment is discouraging to people who actually have that type of body. So maybe it makes small boob girls feel better, but at the expense of big boob girls who might feel there is something wrong with their body

3 months ago
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3 months ago
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thinking back as a kid, i did buy my fair share of game because the image on the cover looked interesting
yes now its different with the internet, but the truth of life is that you eyes see images before you read text
now "intersting" is diffrent for everyone, and they can find a game to like.
so why bother with what other gamer like?

3 months ago
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There's a huge difference between being body positive and putting a scantily clad women in your game. The first is people being comfortable and happy with their bodies, regardless of what those bodies are and what they look like. The second is using sex to sell your game. They're not at all comparable. Sexualization is practically the opposite of body positivity, since it only celebrates sexy, attractive bodies, and sets unrealistic expectations of what bodies actually look like.

You may not see a problem with it, but they exist. They promote unrealistic body images (the average female breast size is video game "small").

Also, it can be really embarrassing. For example, a friend came over with his girlfriend, brought Halo 4 with him so we could play it together. Neither of us had played the game before, but we sat down to play it with our girlfriends watching. The game begins, and it introduces Cortana - who in Halo 4 is practically naked: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/73/77/06/7377065b314b48eaca868501503db0df.jpg. My friend's girlfriend understandably asks, "IWhy is she practically naked?" To which we could only reply, "Because this game is made by and for horny men?" Then the camera proceeded to slowly pan over her breasts and butt in every cutscene, and my friend and I grew more and more uncomfortable with every cutscene. We ended up turning the game off and never playing it again, it was just too embarrassing.

Now, I'm not asking to cover up every bit of skin in video games. I just think there's a time and place for sexualization, and it could be toned down a bit. You're making an eroge? By all means, sexualize away. You're making an RPG with character relationships and you want to have a sex scene 20+ hours in? Be my guest!

3 months ago
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There's a huge difference between body positivity and saying that women need to wear more clothes in video games. In practice there is lots of unrealistic beauty standards in every industry because sex sells. I think that all body types should be celebrated and sexualized, not just the unrealistic depictions but also not excluding them. Maybe Halo 4 should be rated with Sexually Suggestive Content instead of just Blood & Violence if it made you that uncomfortable, it's bad to have no warning for situations like yours

3 months ago
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I mean, if you're arguing for more diverse female and male character designs with different body types, wearing all kinds of different outfits ("sexy" or not), then that sounds good to me. I haven't really seen a lot of games like that, though. And it's hard to imagine a game with e.g. a plus size woman in the same kind of skimpy outfit you see in a lot of JRPGs, which would be "body positive" in the sense that I understand it, not having a bunch of jeering dudes calling it a SJW game.

3 months ago
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I think that all body types should be celebrated and sexualized

I think that all body types should be celebrated, but there's no need to sexualize them.

Maybe Halo 4 should be rated with Sexually Suggestive Content

And it's not really an issue of ratings, it's an issue that I didn't expect to find such ogling of the female form within a first-person shooter. It's not like we were playing Sexy Sorority Sisters or something. We fired up the game to shoot some aliens in the face, and were instead presented with copious amounts of scantily clad female breasts and buttocks because video games. I'm not against titillation, but I feel like there's a time and a place. I don't need it randomly inserted in most games of most genres.

3 months ago
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Hopefully we can get more sexualization in video games

As a woman, I'd like it if men were more sexualized in games :D Boys get sexy, half-naked girls to look at, and what about us ladies? So unfair (I'm half joking, half serious btw).

3 months ago
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+1
More half nude men that don't look ugly as shit please

3 months ago
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I answered it also! Everyone who is dealing with "Sophitia" problem, will you rather play as fatty, flat feminazi, or nice good looking women. Will you also want to play as fat, half bald man or strong fearless badass. Maybe just for fun. For laugh. Nobody wants to be like that, neither look for it. That is my opinion. Feel free to discuss.

3 months ago
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well there are games that allow wide customizations.
i remember playing gta san andreas as a fat fuck with nothing on but panties and joke glasses. that was hilarious, actually.

3 months ago
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I think there's plenty of middle ground between a scantily clad woman with huge breasts that are falling out of her dress and a feminazi.

You can be a badass woman while wearing regular clothes. See FemShep and Trishka Novak as just two examples.

The male equivalent would be a character looking like this: https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/07/17/15/2A9F78BF00000578-3165402-image-a-24_1437144142401.jpg He's undeniably badass, but would you want to play with him?

3 months ago
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But the game is about crazy looking fighters, nothing scream functional in the game design
and there is room for feminazi if there is enough audience, i mean look at Bob from Tekken

and badass females are everywhere, on the cover of many games.
i dont see a problem with either.
look at the characters running in MMOs, everyone can have what he likes

3 months ago
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Crazy looking fighters is certainly a thing. But you notice that none of the male characters are in danger of having their junk spill out in the middle of combat.

It's not that I'm against crazy looking fighters, but when you're clearly defying the laws of physics... And maybe there are fighting games that feature male characters wearing nothing more than a jock strap, but I haven't seen any. It seems that when character models are pushed to extremes, male characters gain muscles while female characters lose clothing.

Badass female characters as playable characters are surprisingly rare, and there's a perception that a game featuring a female playable character won't sell as well. One of the Assassin's Creed games was actually review bombed by angry men who were outraged that half the game featured a female character. There's a definite bias against female characters within gaming.

And I'm far from an expert on MMOs, but the ones I did play all featured revealing female outfits, while all the male outfits were covered from head to toe. It was all stuff like this or this or this. Some MMOs give up the pretense all together and feature female characters like this.

I'm not against revealing outfits in general, I just feel like you should be consistent and practical. Someone wants to dress in revealing clothes, that's fine. But when you put on full plate mail for armor, it shouldn't leave all of your vital regions exposed if you happen to be female.

3 months ago
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i felt the cherry-picked "Sophitia" as an example. personally i would pick something from Dead or alive XD
but yeah, its a fantasy game, and players wanna fill a fantasy, be it a badass cyborg or sexy warrior
but making a character as a joke might hurt those who look like it.

3 months ago
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Summarizing, there is not big deal in games. I think "oldschool blonde big titties" passed away. Duke nukem times, old american movies, i'd think that Sophitia and SC characters looks like this, cuz of sentiment to old type players. There is more likely girls like Hellblade, NEW Tomb Raider, etc. Ofc if you are psycho, you wont change bcuz of less sexualizing in games. When i was launching Soul calibur 6 and saw "those" models, i was like "what the hell, haha how is that even possible to exist, neither fighting? haha" that was comedian. Wasnt even playing as one of those characters, rather wanted to kicks their ass and show that "big tittes wont save you from hard beating" haha :D Casual, normal gamers wont be psycho cuz "GAMES". Keep calm and stay healthy. Sorry for my english, i hope you will understand what i wrote.

3 months ago
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Everyone who is dealing with "Sophitia" problem, will you rather play as fatty, flat feminazi, or nice good looking women.

You're missing the point.
The problem isn't that she's sexy looking and has big boobs. The problem is the way she's dressed. Doesn't bother me all that much, but it's certainly quite ridiculous.

3 months ago
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That character wasn't that bad of an example though... I don't know, as a woman I don't really care about how they're dressed unless the sexualization is really obnoxious. She looked cool, and a woman being cool isn't bad. Same goes for sexualization of male characters.

Now women in the gaming community is a whole other can of worms though. I don't want to play online multiplayer only because I don't want to deal with thirsty guys harassing me.

3 months ago
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Preach for that second part tho.
Jokes are fun until 9/10 jokes are based on you being the punchline.

3 months ago
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I don't think she fits as an example, thats the theme of the game
even Dead or alive is going full fan service and its fine by me
even playing naked Raiden in MGS2 was funny
where would you draw the line as obnoxious? and would that include dating sims?

as for the harassment part, competitive games is filled with trash talking. and these can get personal and out of taste very fast.
female or not, some idiot will use whatever info he has to insult you.

3 months ago
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What I deem as obnoxious may vary, but it's for the most part where the fanservice is really out of place (for example say a woman in a camo colored bikini on a WW battlefield). Dating sims don't count because it's kind of expected in those games and thus it is not out of place.

3 months ago
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isnt all fanservice just out of place XD
https://youtu.be/87YXRvfMDlM

3 months ago
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Imo no. In some games it blends in well. I don't have any examples on top of my head though (but I'm thinking of Bayonetta which I haven't actually played).

3 months ago
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Has Soul Calibur changed that much ? When I played Soul Calibur 2 circa 20 years ago, crazy looking fighters was not its selling point. Sure, a few of them were crazy looking,but most of them just looked like regular guys and gals (for a video game).
Sophitia was the character I played the most at this time (with Cassandra), but I find this redesign horrible.

3 months ago
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DUDE, VOLDO
i dont even remember what was my last SoulCalibur but i cant forget the crawling creep
and half-naked males and females is just standard in fighting games for some reason

3 months ago
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Done.

3 months ago
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i found the survey quite biased. the questions themselves already leaned in a certian direction and the answers didnt help either to express what i thought.
as a woman i think that there are indeed some ridiculous outfits or size of breasts but it doesnt really bother me... but i also think i was always capable at looking beyond "Visuals" at the game itself. also a lot of those women arent just good to look at, they are also depicted as strong or skilled... so isnt that good as well?

i dont often play multiplayers, but when i do there usually isnt much harassment. maybe 12 year olds thinking they are the shit or something... or starving guys hiding behind anonymity. maybe do some counter harassment and show them who is the boss. XD but really now... most ppl are quite kind and helpful.

3 months ago
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Maybe its about kids looking at these games and thinking its the norm, but its the parents job to educate
im only bothered when its out of context, like a bikini general in a military base.

online games are filled with toxic waste, you just need to develop a thick skin. also reports and mute helps

3 months ago
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Yeah i actually wrote in my comment at the bottom that harassment or generally bad views on women often a result of bad parenting.
Like dont let your 10 year old play games like GTA. there is an age-advisory for a reason.

3 months ago
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How is this for undergrad and they can't spell the word "does"?

3 months ago
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+1

But then again I am a neat freak.

3 months ago
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failed autocorrect i guess, my brain stopped checking for spellings i dont think i can spell anymore.

3 months ago
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Apologies but I went full on rant about a completely (not unrelated topic but similar topic) unrelated topic at the bottom.

Long story short.
If the story fits the outfit, the outfit stays.
If it doesn't, yeet it.

Until Dawn of all things. Had a bitch wandering around in a towel for a small portion of the game because she just came out the bathtub. Story Ethic costume design.
Lady Gaga in her music video for Telephone. Bitch wearing only police tape for no damn reason, put on your damn prison costume, you're in prison not an art college costume party.

3 months ago
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I do feel however the question were a little bias. They weren't like super bad like
LYNCH THE FUCKER, THEY THINK THIS THIS AND THIS.
but you know, should I feel guilty about my answers?

3 months ago
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well, there is almost always a schoolgirl outfit for no reasons :D
either way, the creator knows what he is doing
same with streamers and Instagram models, they know what they are doing
you can disagree with it, but why fight it?

3 months ago
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You can't really.
Well unless the character is only wearing nipple tape... I would just tend not to play them xD

3 months ago
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I was afraid this would be a crazy feminist survey, but even though it's short and the provided questions and answers are limited, I actually see their point to some extent.
Notably, the example picture is quite on the spot. While I don't think it's sexist or "shocking", as the same happens to both male and female characters, I do think it's freaking ridiculous and I don't get why so many fighting games have "soldiers" running half (or even 90%...) naked.

As for the "harassment" question, "in my time" people would just reveal no personal info online, so good luck then to make shitty jokes about their sex or origin or whatever.
Every medal has two sides: if you go around flashing your whole CV to the world, people will talk about it. Don't say anything, and you can be a transsexual Afro-American dog and noone will ever shove it to your face.

3 months ago
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because its a crazy fighting game, with swords, that cant kill and plasma bolts.
its about the spectacle, crazy muscle guys with hair that won move while the tits dance XD
cant blame a dating smi game for having a nake scene

as for harassment, spot on my dude. if idiots will still call you names just block it

3 months ago
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Done.

3 months ago
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Bump!

3 months ago
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Added my answers to the survey. Bump!

3 months ago
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simple rule: don't fucking like it? don't fucking play it!

did you notice?
ever since the corona thing blew up people have real problems to worry about again. no more feminazis on tv demanding more women in top paying jobs (no word about lower paying jobs, obviously 90% men are just fine in that field of work). no more sjw bickering about this and that. no more crying about the correct pronouns being used for the very special snowflakes.
common sense is making a comeback (well, sort of) and all it took was a global health crisis.

3 months ago
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The answers did seem somewhat limited sometimes. I feel that more options for each question would let people answer more appropriately, rather than trying to fit how they feel into the closest available answer.

But after filling it out and then seeing some of the comments here... wow.

3 months ago
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yeah it felt like its leading to confirm a point
whats your opinion? didnt see many crazy comments here!

3 months ago
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My opinion on what, the questionnaire, or the sexualization of female video game characters in general?

And you didn't see any crazy comments? Really? When people start commenting in response to a simple questionnaire and they start railing against feminazis and SJWs and pronouns and snowflakes and perceived injustices against men? None of that was in the questionnaire.

3 months ago
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Some questions made me feel like I don't agree with any answer. Like some questions, there is no solid answer, it depends of the context and game, then considering that limited answers possibilities, it may not result in the real opinion of whoever did that survey.

In the question "Do you think adding a seductive and beautiful female character is important in a game?", it depends on the game. For example, if you consider visual novels intended for audiences who want romantic interactions with attractive characters, having characters with appealing or purposefully sexy looks becomes one of the main features that makes the game good.

Considering the Soul Calibur fighting game, where the context gives no room for any kind of sexualization, it is clear that it is inappropriate. However it should be noted that in almost all games, just as there are female characters being overly sexy in out of context, there are also male characters being overly sexualised, with most of them following the same pattern as their respective genders, for example. Feminine visual appeal always involves cleavage and large breasts, or clothes that reveal excessively and unnecessarily their body. The same happens with male characters where the pattern in most of them is also the same, extremely strong and muscular with empty personalities that are filled with pure attitudes of wanting to show that they are the strongest and most masculine, aside from the fact that their visuals always highlight their muscles, in several cases, it is extremely common for these characters not to wear shirts or anything that covers their chest to exalt the exaggerated muscles.

Based on this previous argument, it is very likely that I am trying to balance both sides to show that sexualization happens on both sides. Which it is a fact! However, and that happens because some social factors.
People who play video games. This group is composed mostly of men. I don't want to explain why that is, because I believe it's unnecessary, it's self-explanatory to reflect on why boys are introduced to video games while girls are introduced to other things. The focus is that, the sexualization of both genres, incredible as it may seem, only serves to please the man. It may seem strange to say that male sexualization is not meant to please and attract the attention of women, but the point is that the industry has discovered exactly how the mind of the video game player base works (as noted earlier, it is composed mostly of men). Beautiful and sexy female characters, instantly pleasing men and attracting attention, and excessively strong male characters, is what most men always want to be or desire. It's not uncommon to hear a guy say, "This guy is so badass, I wanted to be like him," or even use him as an inspiration to be someone like him or act like him to fullfil the wish of feeling as much badass as him.

3 months ago
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RE: Your point about men in fighting games having tons of muscles and being shirtless...that isn't really the equivalent of skimpy female outfits in my opinion. Obviously there are plenty of exceptions for any gender (i.e. there will be straight women who thirst over the muscly dudes and straight guys who hate character designs with huge breasts). But this comic, an oldie but goodie by David Willis, sort of explains the false equivalence there, which is that women tend not to actually be attracted to those designs.

If you need more evidence, you can look at the kinds of designs used in Japan's dating sims targeting women, or the kinds of fandoms women are into that center around attractive dudes. Like, look at K-pop, what the guys look like and what kinds of outfits they wear. Or boy bands in general.

3 months ago
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Gamers are so used to over-the-top sexualization that they are kinda desensitized to beautiful girls with realistic sex appeal - like those nerds who think Lara Croft was "sexier" in the 90s or Jill Valentine is "too masculine" in the remake.
I like pretty girls as much as anyone, I just believe the mainstream has a very narrow idea of what "pretty" means. Hypersexualization is boring because it's always the same kind of sexy. Meh.

EDIT: I'm not even that much into "realism" in every game, costumes and looks don't even need to "make sense" all the time, but fantasy doesn't need to look the same in every game ever

3 months ago
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Hypersexualization is boring because it's always the same kind of sexy.

That's a good point, and I think it's part of what bothers me about it. Kind of like when you watch a show and it's hard to tell all the people apart because they're all the same generic brand of attractive.

I can think of comics and such where there were moments that were clearly meant to be fanservice and make the female characters sexy, but because it wasn't exaggerated and the characters were being written as more than just pretty dolls, I actually enjoyed it. That's rare, though.

3 months ago
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As a sociologist I can say that this survey is made badly and makes assumptions so it would not hold in any true debate and would be not used to do any research.

It probably is done to push an agenda.

3 months ago
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i just didnt like it XD
care to point the bad parts, maybe i can relay the information

3 months ago
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1 There is a questions that asks Do you think women/men are being sexualized in video games?

And if someone answers "No" he should not have to answer "Does the sexualization of either genders in video games bother you? How much so?" as it assumes he said Yes and not No in the last 2 questions.

2 About Sophitia Alexandra outfit there is no answer like I don't care.

3 Do you think playing too much video games, with negative themes, will effect a person’s perceptions negatively?

There is no explanation what are these "negative themes". Only sexualisation or also drugs? Alcohol? Rape? Murder? Theft?

4 "Do you think adding a seductive and beautiful female character is important in a game? Because it gives the game a more attractive appeal to its consumers, therefore it sells well."

First part is a question but second part is a statement starting with Because that is trying to work on people feeling to make them pick a certain answer more than the others.

3 months ago
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thanks

3 months ago
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bump

3 months ago
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Stopped at the gender question.

3 months ago
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Bump

3 months ago
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I have a simple rule for judging a game's character designs: if all your characters are in stupid, sexy outfits, including the men, you're fine. My understanding is that FFXIV lets everyone, regardless of gender, have both practical, cool outfits and ridiculous skimpy ones, which sounds perfect to me.

If all your dudes are a variety of ages and body types and have cool outfits suitable for fighting, and all your women are generic babes with boob windows cut into their shirts, then I do find that a bit annoying. That seems to generally be the case with fighting games from what I've seen, but I'm not an expert there. And there seem to be a lot of "grizzled middle aged dude" protagonists paired with prettier and younger women, which is also kind of dull. Give us a cool middle-aged woman like Susan Ashworth from The Cat Lady or a prettyboy like the guy from Resident Evil 4 for variety once in a while.

(And I hate boob jiggle animation 95% of the time, because that's just not how breasts work. I'm sorry. They look weird and it's distracting.)

3 months ago*
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how dare you hate boob physics XD
its silly and i dont want it in my games, but the market is asking for it
Dead or Alive just wont die. and dating sims are on the rise

as for JRPG, i dont think that many have that hentai element, but it may be a culture thing
look at male vs female Asian POP bands

3 months ago
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"The market is asking for it" doesn't mean I won't personally complain about it. Just like I hate on Hollywood films in the summer. :p

The comments in this thread are pretty crazy, though. I think things have been steadily improving for female character designs, at least in Western games, but if it still gets people this angry that a chick might prefer to play a game where the women are wearing shirts, I think we're doing something wrong.

Dead or Alive just wont die. and dating sims are on the rise

See, I don't have a problem with either of those! They're a specific kind of game that's designed to sell sex or romantic fantasies. Taking that element away would defeat the purpose. (Also, some dating sims aren't like that. I've got a handful of guy-oriented dating sims, actually, because they're focused on stories rather than sleaze and purportedly have good romances.) They're the equivalent of otome games, which sell sex/romance in the opposite direction, which are also fine, fun, and harmless. They know what they are, they aren't pretending to be more. It's different when it's a gritty RPG or an adventure game.

A point I forgot to add in my original post was that it depends on the atmosphere of the game and the character themselves, too. If a woman's supposed to be a chaste priestess and her clothes are falling off, it makes a lot less sense than if it's an erotic dancer wearing an artfully draped piece of gauze. And in general, if you want me to take your female characters seriously they should probably be wearing clothing for their dramatic monologue about the cost of war, not fishnet thigh-highs. (No shade to people who like fishnet thigh-highs IRL, but they are probably not wearing them to fight evil.)

3 months ago*
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i would say the same about Bayonetta and SoulCalibur
they know what they are and who will buy them

im not against complaining about it, i just think its a wasted energy.
if you dont like the product, dont buy it. if we keep talking about it it's just free marketing
hopefully the demand will decrease and the production will stop!

3 months ago
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if you dont like the product, dont buy it.

It's more like "I like everything about this product except this one thing I wish they'd stop doing already." There aren't a lot of alternatives yet, either, at least if you're buying mainstream games. (Like, are there any good anime-esque fighting games where none of the ladies are sexualized? If so, please rec.) If you want the gameplay/graphics/whatever, then you suck it up and buy the game anyway, at least until someone makes SoulCalibur: But No Boob Jiggle.

Anyways, complaining seems to have had at least some effect! We are getting more games with better designs these days. They just aren't the majority yet.

3 months ago
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