Tbh, I'm still having a hard time believing that this is actually happening in the 21 century.
I mean, there's no denying that it is happening but what the fuck, people? Haven't they ever read a history book?!
I'm at a loss for words.
Comment has been collapsed.
So ... why was there a gathering of all kinds of nationalist sentiment to begin with?
This guy nails it with some prime examples of lefty lunacy: https://youtu.be/jgccg9xurE8?t=22m15s
Comment has been collapsed.
"we really didn't want to be nazis, but as you can see we had no choice. you see, there are all these people around who aren't white. what are we supposed to do when all these people are just... being not white? here, in america of all places! are we supposed to not be nazis? is that it, just not be nazis when there are so many people who aren't white? that just won't do."
Wth are you even blubbering about? You just pulled that out of your buffoon ass. Most of those perfectly normal nationalists don't have anything to do with the "nazi blast from the past" ... even the 20% of fucking morons that would say so, they couldn't be "the infamous nazi's" even if they wanted to - at least not in accordance with the law.
Comment has been collapsed.
Free speach.. defends what you don't want to hear as well.
It's not a crime to dislike something, even if that's non-whites.
Just like it's not a crime to dislike whites, which has been even more rampant lately.
Comment has been collapsed.
Kind of the point of Freedom of Speech ... especially if its infamous/offensive,
just shutting people up won't help it. Its not freedom of consequence.
there's an actual american nazi party operating freely, though with no real power.
You said Nazi - i said i doubt most of those nationalists identify as those Nazi's ... and even if they'd so
moronically did, they couldn't do shit without turning themselves into criminal offenders.
The point is - the way the news is being broken to people "YA'LL BEING REPLACED ENJOY!!11" is incredible
offensive, also with the idiots cheering for it - just wth.
That's about the same as if whites where to mass migrate to Africa (theoretically), and native Africans would announce at some point "YA'LL BEING REPLACED ENJOY !!11" while people cheering in the background - disturbing ... also won't happen to them, only to whites because why again ... ah right we're supposed to be the only ones to be that stupid - also all lives are equal, so you better cheer for being replaced or else you're a Nazi.
Not to mention here's how it goes down for minorities in those shitholes (South Africa) literally white genocide.: 1/2/...
Comment has been collapsed.
it means everyone has a shot.
Who's everyone? And why would anyone who isn't qualified. Get line for a surgery and tell me again if you
wanna get cut up by Dr. GoodCut or by Dr. AtleasthegothisshotCut.
Whiteness doesn't grant the divine right to rule
You said that lol.
and losing an unjust advantage isn't fucking oppression.
An unjust advantage you say ... tell me more about that unjust
advantage that probably is also known as qualification.
I'm not going to go around ranting about hashtag white genocide and get fitted with a stylish red and white armband just because my genes don't give me an easy ride to the top in a more diverse America.
Oh boy whats wrong with you? If you're qualified - it shouldn't matter who you are, but if others are more qualified than you - though luck.
Comment has been collapsed.
else why the worry about being "replaced" in a more just society?
Because its exclusively promoted in "white mans land of milk and honey" and not in Africa, China, Japan, Israel ... you name it - so why not preserve the "diversity". And what it results to is people flocking together - segregating, because they just naturally like to be among their own. Multiculturalism hasn't worked out in Europe nor in America * with few distinct exceptions such as East Asians. Not only will they integrate quickly in a generation or two, be proportionality less represent in crimes than whites, but also more successful in academia (low testosterone, high iq | bell curve).
In fact its so bad ... taking in/allowing the most successful people of a exodus country to migrate will result in their original country to further deteriorate (take talents, whats left is whatever remains). While this also generates a false hope and view that the only way is to leave the country / wait for handouts. This guy puts it in audio-visual/terms so simple anyone could understand.
And what does the science say?
tl;dr: Ethnocentric societies are in the long run the most successful, well off, cohesive society/culture and therefore contented.
The Evolutionary Dominance of Ethnocentric Cooperation
Ethnic Diversity, Economic and Cultural Contexts, and Social Trust:
Good Fences: The Importance of Setting Boundaries for Peaceful Coexistence
The Geography of Ethnic Violence
Effects of Heterogeneity and Homophily on Cooperation
...
Comment has been collapsed.
Zero reasonable arguments comparing birds and bees, no proof, no stats and only riding a buzzword heavy defamation wave ... with your average at best wits, no wonder you've bought into the PC/identity politics bullshit. Have good day pal - you'll probably need it more more than I, with those delusions.
Comment has been collapsed.
Movac
What gave you the impression I'm trying to change your mind? I've only been posting here because someone needed to tell you to fuck off, and it's increasingly clear that subtlety isn't working. So pack up your calipers and hike back to whatever shithole on reddit feeds you talking points.
Not sure if this is supposed to make me laugh or pity you ...
catch you shitposting in another thread, another day - till then:
Comment has been collapsed.
[..] They said the same shit about immigrants from Ireland and Poland, they said Catholics couldn't possibly integrate into America's Protestant culture [..]
Just curious, but who do yo think "They" is?
It's not like you seriously believe that this is some sort of secret cabal secretly working in the shadows since god knows when, or do you?
I mean, a lot of people have said a lot of dumb shit, welcome to the history of mankind..
Comment has been collapsed.
why the worry about being "replaced" in a more just society?
What has skin color got to do with any of that?
Certainly, "The Good Ol' Boys' Club" is something to be despised, but since when has a social construct ever been defined by skin color as if only people of a particular color use it? One form of power-play is being used by a white guy and that makes all white people "bad" and they all have to go? The idiocy of that logic would be laughable were it not for the vast numbers of people who actually subscribe to it. And why would anyone believe such nonsense? Because they behave like sheep. It is easy and comfortable to turn off the intellect and let one's desires run one's life despite the fact that it means giving up control and self-determination. Instead of everyone banding together to fight injustice, they are squabbling amongst themselves over what each group "deserves." Divide and conquer in action.
So, who benefits from all of this? That small group of white guys at the top who are pulling the strings in Politics, Education, Finance, and Media. As society tears itself to shreds and everyone becomes more and more miserable (all according to plan), they will step in with their "solution": World-wide, Authoritarian Control, run by them. Well done, sheep.
Comment has been collapsed.
And I'm going to point you back to what I just wrote. "Institutional racism" is both the tip of the iceberg and tool with which to control the masses. People are only manipulated for as long as they fail to resist being so.
Comment has been collapsed.
I had a friend like you, just like you. Always just one incident away from getting your eyes opened.
Comment has been collapsed.
Red pill? Don't know if I'm sure at what you're trying to get at here. It's your life and your life only, and you can do, think, and believe whatever you see fit. I'm not trying to do anything here.
I was just saying that you eerily remind me of a friend I once had, and I feel sad about what has happened to him.
And it can happen to you, me, god knows, everyone else as well. And we never know what it's really like until it is actually there.
Comment has been collapsed.
Comment has been collapsed.
This a referral link. Can we get a mod to remove the post?
Referral links are not allowed in the community, and if you choose to post a link, please be sure all referral codes have been removed (http://www.example.com?ref=12345 to http://www.example.com).
Comment has been collapsed.
Mods do not have the power to edit or delete posts, although sometimes we wish we could.
Comment has been collapsed.
"One people, one nation, end immigration."
"You will not replace us."
Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.
On the other hand, we have leftist mantras of "open borders" and "diversity is our strength" and "end white privilege" and "whiteness is toxic" repeated no matter how disastrous the results become, and THAT sounds fucking insane.
Them doubling down too, rather than admitting that their policies were mistakes and their world view is a failure, is the only cowardice I see here.
Comment has been collapsed.
Grats, you're an idiot.
Anybody not chanting down with whitey is a racist nazi to you?
You are what's wrong with the world.
Comment has been collapsed.
One people, one nation, end immigration is not the same as one people, one empire, one ruler.
I can understand your confusion though, it must be hard to live your life when you get triggered after reading or hearing the first word of any sentence.
Comment has been collapsed.
Beyond the fact that I already know the news media cannot be trusted, I often wonder about individuals reported to be doing bizarre behavior. Did the person actually do that? If the person did, was it a spontaneous thing or planned? Were there ulterior motives involved? Was the person convinced to do it by someone else, or was it genuine?
So many questions that will probably never be answered. Meanwhile, it is all the excuse that some people need to start a fire.
Comment has been collapsed.
I apologize if I wasn't clear. I was speaking in general rather than designating anyone in particular. I always encourage people to think rather than just react. People have a tendency to do and say things while angry that they would not normally say and do. It's an unfortunate part of human behavior and the root cause of "mob mentality."
(Note: I'm still speaking in general terms, here.)
Comment has been collapsed.
"One people, one nation" ... "Ein Volk, ein Reich"
It is a direct translation.
And who's talking about replacing? Classic strawman. "End white privilege" isn't the same as "end white people".
Comment has been collapsed.
Gonna have to disagree with the purity thing, given the citizenship is already made up of many races, and their removal is nothing short of betraying fellow americans based on arbitrary opinion. It is however interesting that you would consider the left slogans 'insane' no matter how 'disastrous' the results become, but are pretty chill with the adoption of literal nazi symbolism, quotes and values. They crept into power 'politely' the first time, so I'm sure you'll forgive peoples misgivings after that whole war and genocide thing. Hey come to think of it, the original nazis also betrayed their own countrymen if they didn't fall into line too. Disregard me~
It would be sad to see the much bemoaned "We saved your ass during the war" be flipped into everyone else saying "We saved your asses from yourselves". If you cannot see cowardice in the murder of protesters, nor in holding that you must alienate your own countrymen and women for values that have already proven to have been central to atrocity, then I would suggest taking a step back to reexamine your belief structure with honest eyes.
Comment has been collapsed.
Don't forget blood and soil.
And what part of white nationalism sounds reasonable to you?
Also the mantras of the counter protesters were fuck nazis.
Comment has been collapsed.
Just want to say that diversity is and always will be a strength. Diversity is change and progress, diversity is the reason why our species has been able to survive. To insist that diversity is anything other than a strength to ignore one of the simplest laws of nature.
Comment has been collapsed.
Diversity can be a strength, but is not necessarily one. Change is not "always" progress. Our species has survived because we produce offspring at a prodigious rate, outpacing our mortality. I encourage you to think about what you are saying as it sounds like you are spouting slogans someone else has put in your mouth. Support a cause because you understand it and it makes sense to you. Don't just follow the herd.
Comment has been collapsed.
You sure do have a very dismissive tone for a moderator, that's not very nice. This is something I've put a lot of thought and energy into and come to my own conclusions. I was simplifying the idea to get my point across, not due to lack of understanding. And I would argue that our species has been able to survive due to our ability to go through immense change within generations instead of between generations like most other species.
Comment has been collapsed.
I apologize, Bro. I wasn't trying to come off as being dismissive. I was trying to encourage you to contemplate. Too many people, these days, hear slogans being thrown about (e.g. "equality for all," "question authority," "don't judge me") and repeat what they've heard because it sounds good. They don't bother to stop and think about the meaning. I wanted to make sure you weren't making that mistake like so many others. If you are putting a lot of thought into what you hear and what you say, then you are using the brain that God gave you, and that's a blessing for which to be thankful.
Comment has been collapsed.
"One people, one nation, end immigration."
"You will not replace us."
I absolutely agree. And I am sure this guy would be the biggest supporter of these slogans when it comes to America; after all, you cannot find any other American having absolutely nothing but trouble with those pesky immigrants, completely fucking up everything they touch:
Comment has been collapsed.
Let me just say this... today is my dead sister's birthday. She and her boyfriend attended Kent State - he pulled her out of the line of fire or there may have been more than four dead in Ohio... In those days, the people stood up for their beliefs and got shot. Sigh.... have we learned nothing? It's fine to hold an opinion but when your opinion infringes on the rights of others, is your opinion still a right?
This country was founded on the basis of inalienable rights...
Natural rights are those that are not dependent on the laws or customs of any particular culture or government, and therefore universal and inalienable (i.e., rights that cannot be repealed or restrained by human laws). ... The concept of natural law is related to the concept of natural rights.
Comment has been collapsed.
It's fine to hold an opinion but when your opinion infringes on the rights of others, is your opinion still a right?
A lot of people need to read that, then read it again, and then read it a third time.
Preach on, Momo, preach on.
Comment has been collapsed.
It's fine to hold an opinion but when your opinion infringes on the rights of others, is your opinion still a right?
Do you had something specific in mind? I get your point, I think, but which right of others is infringed here?
Comment has been collapsed.
Someone is dead... I think that qualifies as infringing on another person's right to live...
Listen, these neo-nazi, alt-right have a right to their opinion but when their opinion infringes upon the right of other people to live their own lives peaceably - whether they be gay or black or Muslim or purple, then I have an issue with their "rights". Those are not rights they are espousing, they are dictates - as in dictatorship. in
I am really sad to see such back-sliding in the progress of human rights - Trump and his minions have given free rein to troll behavior - this is the outcome. Sadly, I don't see how we can return to civility or any kind of "normality" . We're now living in a time of Reddit and reality television where everyone wants to get their 15 minutes of fame even if that means acting like a complete ass in order to get it...
I am sad we elected the ultimate troll - the ultimate reality TV star - the orange thing we're calling the highest elected official of our country... Doom is surely near when we've stooped this low. This isn't about change - this is what we've come to. Winter is coming.
Comment has been collapsed.
Someone is dead... I think that qualifies as infringing on another person's right to live...
Come on, please don't move the goalposts now. And this is not "infringing", this is murder, plain and simple. If it will be ruled as an intentional act, but this will be decided before a court, as it should be.
I was asking about the alleged infringement by holding a rally. Don't you agree that everyone has the right to peacefully assemble and protest?
And, by the way, I don't get what Trump has to do with this Charlottesville incident. Why bring him even up? I don't know what was really going on there, I wasn't present (you?), but all these idiotic groups that are mentioned quite regularly right now in the media have been around for a long time. This reeks as guilt by association.
Comment has been collapsed.
I agree that it's not "infringing" but rather an action as an outcome of belief. I watched Vice tonight and they were saying that anti alt-right protestors attacked the car that hit and killed the protestors. Frankly, I believe that anyone has the right to hold peaceable rallies to promote their beliefs - even if it's in the belief that little green men are the true Americans. It is the responsibility of the local government to ensure the safety of all concerned.... And the Charlottesville government failed to protect all concerned though they did make a valiant effort by trying to move the rally to another park.
As to Trump, my comment had to do with his support of David Duke and really his whole rhetoric of support for "white rights" as demonstrated by "The Wall" and Muslims all being terrorists and anti-immigration and yada, yada, white people are the bestest... Frankly the guy scares the crap out of me in the same way these neo-nazi's scare me. They don't think anyone but them has inalienable rights. So yeah, Trump has promoted the idea that these cretins can show their faces in public and crawl out from under whatever rocks they've been hiding under. I do blame him for recreating a climate of hate and fear of "the other".
And no, I wasn't present - as a white woman who carries a Jewish last name and who is in large part native American, I am well aware of bias and bigotry and misogynistic behavior. Did I need to be present to see the whole, sad picture? Really?
Comment has been collapsed.
Trump and his minions have given free rein to troll behavior
I am not seeing that. While there are lots of words being thrown around by multiple sides, and I will agree that Trump often says things that should not be said, I pay more attention to what is done than what is said. There seems to be a definite upswing in reigning in troll behavior, not the opposite.
Sigh.... have we learned nothing?
It would seem not. Those of us who have been around long enough are seeing the cycle repeated. Too bad the newer generations pay no attention to what their elders have learned the hard way.
Comment has been collapsed.
It's fine to hold an opinion but when your opinion infringes on the rights of others, is your opinion still a right?
I'm unclear on how that ever happens. Certainly it requires an action to infringe on others -- not speech (barring threats or incitement), let alone an opinion. Removing or restricting the freedom of people to think or say what they want, even when they're wrong, is real fascism.
And this tragedy is your example? The act of running down a crowd with a car is illegal, always, regardless of one's motivation or opinion.
Comment has been collapsed.
The guy that drove the car into a crowd of people clearly had an opinion differing from those whom he mowed down like they were grass - that's what I meant. His opinion literally drove him to infringe upon the rights of those people.
As to my example, a former brother-in-law was in the National Guard and was there that day though he did not fire his weapon. When the government is so frightened of its people(or what they think) that they start shooting them for having different opinions, well that was my point. I consider that to be illegal too....
Hope this clarifies my point :-)
Comment has been collapsed.
I'm not at all knowledgeable on the topic. However I find it horrible that lives are at stake. Fuck sake one person died. I really hope this stops, the poor family of this woman's family, 32 years of age... too young... I hope the 19 injured are recovering well. What a disgusting world we live in.
Comment has been collapsed.
I doubt it, they were injured in the car ramming that killed her right?
Human vs car is fucking horrific.
Comment has been collapsed.
I know, one can only pray for good. Just makes me sad hearing it. I just can't imagine what everyone involved are going through.
You are right though fucking horrific. Truly horrific :(
Comment has been collapsed.
wew, people going out with the sole intention to pick a fight end up finding one. never happened before really.
Comment has been collapsed.
to be fair, comedy is also a coping mechanism , and in this case it was especially relevant considering the word nazi appears 124 times on just the first page of this thread
Comment has been collapsed.
How dare you, Fawlty Towers makes me laught so much :D
Comment has been collapsed.
I'm curious where you got that from?
Muslim radicalism is a huge issue in the middle east and europe, and while not so much an issue here, therez alos been a few attacks in America.
There is a little bit of difference between them, white nationalism is built on a an idealogy of violence, Muslim Radicalism is built on a religion, where the ideolody can go in many directions. Unfortunatly in the middle east and some of Europe its moslty voilent radicalism. America and western Europe muslims are mostly moderate and agaisnt violence, however there are still radical cells throughout, which is a huge problem, espeically in Europe.
Neo Nazism/white nationalism has been rising in America, that's a fact. The terrorist attack by a alt right member against anti nazi counter peotesters at a white nationalist rally isn't evidence of it, it's a result of it. And I'm not advocating taking away thier free speech.
Comment has been collapsed.
So white nationalism is rising in USA while islamic radicalism is declining in Europe?
One would think it's vice versa.
And just for the record eastern European muslims are far more civilized, far less radical and brainwashed by religion, than those on the west.
Comment has been collapsed.
I didn't say islamic radicalism was declining? I didn't comment on that or really much on Europe 'cause I'm not really familiar with it.
Comment has been collapsed.
Let us be more specific and accurate.
ISIS is a political group which is defying the laws and precepts of the religion in which they profess to believe, acting out in response to the very real violence and injustice which the regional population has been experiencing. Like every other group or individual, the combination of a) lashing out in anger, b) not being able to tell wrong from right, and c) believing the lie that "the ends justifies the means" is resulting in behavior at least as vile as that which upset them in the first place.
We see this pattern of behavior, over and over, again, with those three factors being the root cause, and the religion of the terrorists is always irrelevant. That is why we Muslims take exception to the phrase "Muslim terrorists," as though Islam has anything to do with terrorism. The reason you don't see people labeled as "Christian terrorists" is because Christians know enough about their religion to understand Christianity doesn't allow terrorism.
Comment has been collapsed.
You used a generalization about Muslims to defend your point that fascists shouldn't be generalized?
/boggle
Also, I don't see anyone stopping you from talking about Muslims, but this thread clearly isn't about Muslims.
Comment has been collapsed.
...compared to other threads where muslims were the "offenders"
In which thread have Muslims been "the offenders?" I am unaware of the Muslim peoples rising up to do anything in particular, much less commit an act of violence. They aren't even organized enough to select a leader.
Or are you referring to the occasional "religion-bashing" that crops up from time to time? That's a different can of worms.
Comment has been collapsed.
It seems you didn't understand what I wrote, either. Expressing disgust with the perpetrator of a crime (within reason) is not against the rules of SG. Hate speech about a particular religion just because it happens to be the religion of that perpetrator is against the rules of SG.
I may have been able to word that even more clearly, but I'm tired at the moment.
Comment has been collapsed.
Well, if its not allowed to bash an entire religion because of the perpetrator, then it shouldn't be allowed to bash an entire political faction, skin color or the general "roots" of the perpetrator either.
That would be in line with logic and the rules of this site, yes. From what I understand (and again, I'm tired, so I could be missing some stuff), most of the discussion in this thread seems to be about exactly that; the foolishness of bigotry and prejudice.
When someone in europe shoots up a concert hall, yelling "Alahu akbar", that does NOT mean he is doing it because of his religion!
Well, people get confused because they are not familiar with Islam and Muslims. Muslims use religions phrases all the time. (I say "Allahu Akbar" whenever I stand up.) That is because Islam is a way of life, and everything a Muslim does is supposed to be in keeping with Islam and an act of worship. Yes, even the way I am typing this message on the forum is considered an act of worship. Muslims are people, of course, and prone to error just like anyone else, but we also have a Book to which we can refer. That gives Muslims even less of an excuse to do what God has forbidden. At least the peoples of other faiths may claim ignorance.
"So, you did this despicable act in spite the fact that your religion forbids it?"
"I didn't know my religion forbids it."
"It says so in your Book, right here."
" . . . . "
People should be tried and judged in accordance with what they have done, not what they believe. Justice is supposed to be for all, not meted out only to those with insufficient wealth and/or power.
Comment has been collapsed.
I say the same things about isis and muslim terrorism as people say about what happened in Virginia (apart from the taking away their free speech). I'm also not the only one by any stretch of the imagination.
Maybe think about this: maybe those two groups do not consist of the same people.
Comment has been collapsed.
Ah the alt-right crybaby.
Remind me how many muslim-owned banks, medias, corporations, institutions there are the USA that makes them such a "protected" kind?
Also please link a source to "mulsims decapitating or shooting" people this week, last week, and the month before?
Yeah right degenerate hypocrite and coward racist.
Comment has been collapsed.
Calling other people names is a reportable offense.
It is? People call me names all the time....
Comment has been collapsed.
It's not SG, it's most of the left these days, unfortunately. The left nowadays only believe in free speech if it's speech that they agree with, everything else is hate speech.
But yeah, the double standard is ridiculous when it comes to Islam.
Comment has been collapsed.
Oh, and noone is allowed to say a thing against muslims, right.
Not to worry. I am able to fulfill your quota for saying things about Muslims. I actually know what I'm talking about, too, so that's a bonus.
Comment has been collapsed.
... while at the same time its prohibited to say bad things about muslims, because then you are a racist.
Islam is not a race, so being bigoted about Muslims wouldn't make one a racist. It would make one look foolish and ignorant, though. Generally speaking, the larger the group one attempts to stereotype, the less accurate the stereotyping is. Most people understand the difference between a political group like the Nazi's and the adherents to a religion like the Muslims.
Comment has been collapsed.
Semi-Relatedly, what do people think about the decision to remove the statue.
I generally disagree because it is a part of history but what do you guys thinks
Comment has been collapsed.
They didn't tear it down, they put it in a museums, I feel that's an appropriate way to treat a peice of history.
Comment has been collapsed.
i don't know alot anot this but Aren't they also renaming some of the parks as well? i can see why some people may believe that they are trying to censor history
Comment has been collapsed.
Not related to the statue, but we have renamed some parks, schools and other buildings named after confederate generals. I can how some see it as removing history, but it's also really weird how we memorialize these traitors of the state who fought to keep slavery. But I guess we do have stronger ties to our state than to our country, so it makes a little bit of sense.
Comment has been collapsed.
Not weird really. It was done/allowed to placate the South after their defeat and the brutality of the Reconstruction.
Comment has been collapsed.
The North won the war, but the South won the narrative. Its only taking until now for the "honorable South" narrative to finally unwind, and it might not ever get buried since the Confederacy has somehow come to stand in modern days as a declaration of freedom from the government, rather than several states up and leaving the Union and fighting a war with the north so that they can protect the right of people to own other people, beat and rape other people, and sell other people as chattel.
You also get the case where the villains of history get their designated good guy. Rommel is the "Good Nazi", because he spent much of the war in North Africa and wasn't personally involved with the really bad stuff the Nazis did in Eastern Europe. He was still a Nazi though. It fits a nice narrative if you have a "good honorable foe" fighting for the evil maniacal villain, so the Nazi half of "good nazi" gets the back seat.
The same goes for Lee. He was the "Good Confederate". He was the good and honorable leader of a country fighting for its freedom - its freedom to strip people of their freedom and own them and do as it pleases with them.
Long story short. The historical memory of the Confederacy gets romanticized, and Lee in particular is romanticized. And with that, things that belong in a museum, and should be taught as "the disgrace of our history, let us remember this and try to be better in the future" becomes the pride of the town.
Also related: that statue should be kept in a museum, not in a public park.
Comment has been collapsed.
I think it's less trying to censor history and more making sure that we are honoring the right people for the messages we (as a society) want to send with things like statues, names, etc. I think it makes sense.
Comment has been collapsed.
The statue hasn't actually been moved at all. That's part of the problem.
The city council voted to sell it to a museum a few months ago, but the city got sued by opponents of the move and a judge put a freeze on it until the legal process has played out. The racist dipshits (KKK, Alt-Right, Neo-Nazis) have made it into their personal holy ground since then.
Comment has been collapsed.
The question is intent. There is apparently a statue where I live Cornwallis (I think I have no idea,) of some guy who wanted the scalps of native Americans or whatever. There are people protesting it. I'm sure he did other things, but lets face it the vast majority of human history there have been questionable people and no "great man" doesn't have some history that someone will find questionable. Should we just remove all statues? I don't actually care, most of the time unless the intent isn't some nefarious purpose.
Now if you put up a statue of the guy I mentioned earlier to I don't know put the Native Americans in their place,and to say you approve of his actions back then yeah, I can say you should probably take the statue down. If you're celebrating the good things that he did? Then I don't think so. I mean Nelson Mandela was supposedly a wife beater in his younger years, does that taint the good he did? There are some sketchy things surrounding nearly every great man, so what are we going to ban all statues? Everywhere? I say take them down anyway, they attract to many rats with wings, fucking pigeons.
Comment has been collapsed.
I just think statues that are a part of history should be kept in their place, regardless of the original intent of the statues , as a preservation of history.
I would even want Nazi Statues to remain and they put people like me in camps :P but then i never really get offended by anything
Comment has been collapsed.
I don't think you should tear them down , I just think intent matters in a way. Put them in a museum, if they're that offensive. That's just me though, I care about the intent a bit more,that being said I have better things to do with my time then you know focus on some shitty statue about some guy who is dead and doesn't give a shit, because he's dead.
Comment has been collapsed.
they attract to many rats with wings, fucking pigeons.
Thank you for the laugh !
Comment has been collapsed.
... so what are we going to ban all statues? Everywhere?
That would be in line with the Abrahamic religions, but I doubt it will happen.
Comment has been collapsed.
No, the Abrahamic religions aren't against statues, they're against idols which are different, because it's an intent thing. If you worship that statue in place of god or as a god, that's considered idolatry. Random statues weren't considered against god. Also I would argue that people in the bronze age were considerably more likely to worship statues because you know they lived in the bronze age.
Comment has been collapsed.
My statement remains accurate, although you seem to have extrapolated in its meaning for some reason. You speak of the blurred lines of practice, whereas I referred to religious doctrine. The two are not necessarily the same, but the subject does make for interesting research should anyone be into that. The only real difficulty lies in determining actual Christian doctrine in the matter.
Comment has been collapsed.
I'm saying your interpretation of religious doctrine, is questionable. Idols were bad, and idols as referred to in the bible was based on intent, you can make an argument about what is considered an idol in today's times, but factually statues weren't banned.
Comment has been collapsed.
I agree. My interpretation is questionable. (Good Lord, I hope people question such things.) As I was not around, thousands of years ago, I do not have first-hand information from the religious scholars of the time so as to know how "the Law" was to be understood and practiced. I have only the partial information I am able to collect today from various sources, and we know that there have been changes in both the letter of "the Law" and its explanation. When it comes to determining the religious practices of a bygone age, your guess is probably as good as mine.
You will notice, however, that my initial statement was rather vague. "In line with," as in "not in contradiction to," the Abrahamic religions.
Comment has been collapsed.
if they are made of solid gold i would melt them and make rings <3
but seriously, depends on why the statue was placed there. if it's a historic symbol it should remain where it is. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Comment has been collapsed.
And then make one true ring, which is more special than the others.
Comment has been collapsed.
Putting U.S. Civil War artifacts in museums is fine. But in most cases these statues are not about history, they about commemorating Confederate political and military figures as honored heroes.
Kind of like giving out participation awards to the losing side.
600,000+ lives lost over the effort to outlaw slavery, but every side can feel like a winner!
Comment has been collapsed.
I have no sympathy for either sides. Fuck stupid people.
Most people don't understand how, why and to what end this is happening, so instead of fixing the problems they still sliding on the orchestrated slippery slope towards a political and social crash.
Again, either I'm just highly cynical and also particularly intelligent as to understand the ins and outs while otherwise I would just be as manipulated, or most people simply really are that stupid in which case, yeah, let the civil war come and people die I don't give a shit.
Comment has been collapsed.
Even dumb people should have the right to protest and have freedom of speech. The problem lies with the people that overreact to that shit. Not everyone should agree with you it's normal that people have other views then yourself even if you consider them extreme.
Comment has been collapsed.
The problem is not that nazis were protesting, it's that they killed somebody who was protesting against them.
Comment has been collapsed.
Yes, but we can all agree that this is just wrong, don't we? Using violence as means for some political goal is always wrong.
Why is this even controversial? All this outrage seems so artificial to me..
Comment has been collapsed.
I think the whole nazi history makes it a little more scary for people. Here you have one of the most cruel organisations in history and some people actually with them. That's what makes it controversial.
Comment has been collapsed.
... it's that they killed somebody who was protesting against them.
I thought it was one guy that did the killing? You have info that this was an action planned and sponsored by the group(s)?
Comment has been collapsed.
Yes, it was one guy. Let me rephrase: somebody was killed for opposing the protest.
Comment has been collapsed.
President Trump Delivers a Statement
This might be of interest to this thread.
Comment has been collapsed.
That statement broke my irony meter, talking about loving eachother, being loyal and all that. I already have to buy two every week normally, this will be an expensive one.
But FINALLY mr. orange denounced nazis. It also sounds like Mike Pence wrote that statement, talking about god so much. Trump usually doesn't mention religion.
Comment has been collapsed.
And what happened, then? Well, in the forums they say – that Hoopy’s small Blacklist grew three sizes that day.
Comment has been collapsed.
"Why can’t people just learn to live together in peace and harmony?" said Arthur.
Ford gave a loud, very hollow laugh.
"Forty-two!" he said with a malicious grin. "No, doesn’t work. Never mind."
Comment has been collapsed.
the only fun part about this loosers on both side is they have the same sick ideology as basement = socialism. The only point they dont agree with each other is Immigration. At the point they understand that the targets are the same we have a real problem.
Comment has been collapsed.
There are some things about this event which strike me as odd.
- It is reported that members of the White supremacist group(s) were armored and armed. On the "other side," there were members of the Anarchist group who were also armored and armed. So, both sides showed up at the "rally" prepared for battle? Where were the police, then? Rumors are that the police were told to stand down before the event.
- The demonstration staged by the supremacist groups has repeatedly been labeled as "right-wing" but the Right-Wingers were apparently on the other side, yelling at the supremacist groups to "go home." The groups condemned by the general population do not appear to have been right-wing. (The Socialist Party are Socialists (duh), the Neo-Nazis are Authoritarians, the KKK is made up of old-time Democrats, and so on.)
- It has also been reported that the guy who ran everyone over with a truck has pleaded "not guilty." Considering that the supremacist group he "was with" has condemned his actions and disavowed any association with him, it looks like he'll have difficulty finding friends in jail.
Here's another interesting bit of information. Most of the people at the demonstration (both sides) were outsiders. It would seem that these two groups had been itching for a confrontation, but neither one wanted to do the clashing in their home town.
Comment has been collapsed.
I mean, the groups are far right politically, and were attempting to "unite" with conservatives. But most have rejected them, it's not a left v right thing, it's a neo nazi and white nationalists v everyone else thing.
And yeah, people came from all over the country to protest and counter protest, I hate that where I live has become the battlefield.
And I doubt he will have trouble with friends in jail, jails are already hugley racially divided, and others are still praising the action, even if American Vanguard isn't.
Comment has been collapsed.
it's a neo nazi and white nationalists v everyone else thing
Haha. Pretty much. My understanding is that the groups aren't really "far right." Rather, they are as I listed, above. The media is still trying to spin it as a "right-wing thing," however, and there is the possibility people will blindly accept what they are told (as they have with so much other rubbish). Then again, I'm hearing from a lot of people that they are getting fed up with the media.
Comment has been collapsed.
[..] I'm hearing from a lot of people that they are getting fed up with the media.
Hey, looks like you're talking about me.
Sigh..
Comment has been collapsed.
Almost any protest I was at, the guys that were out to bash someone's skull in didn't really have a clue what the rally was about and couldn't care less, didn't matter which political spectrum they aligned themselves with. They mostly were just bored of or frustrated with their inability to take responsibility for their own lives and were in desperate need for some attention from mommy; the rest were just some 'ingenious' delusionals from the opposite faction playing false flag (which weren't that many since they aren't that smart to begin with ;D).
There seems once again an overall growing need to vent one's frustrations violently or on other's backs nowadays, whatever the reasons may be.
Comment has been collapsed.
Agreed. I think a rule about this would be better, actually..
Comment has been collapsed.
i sugested they could mover their topics to Reddit, no one of them , believes could be better, specially you Vanessa
Comment has been collapsed.
off-topic category
If you don't want to read posts on politics, why browse the off-topic category?
Comment has been collapsed.
+lext Please tell me what does war betwenn two groups of miserable people (Far left bastards and far right bastards) have to do with a community focused on video games? Why we have to discus such things everywhere?
Comment has been collapsed.
Well its relevant to me, 'cause it's happening where I live. I'm part of this community and I sometimes talk about shit that happens to me or happens where I live.
And I foolishly assumed we all were agaisnt white nationalists and neo nazis and didn't really see it as politics.
Comment has been collapsed.
+JenniferVanessa. Normal people are against any type of fanatical nationalism (White, Black, Asian or any other type) . What is hapening right now is fight betwenn two cancers, far left and far right and normal people prefer to avoid either side. I understoond your feelings about latest acident there. We all should just let police and courts do their work.
Comment has been collapsed.
What is hapening right now is fight betwenn two cancers, far left and far right and normal people prefer to avoid either side.
This is false. But even if it were true, it would be important for the normal people to fight against both.
We all should just let police and courts do their work.
Cultural shifts are not police business nor a matter for the courts to decide.
Comment has been collapsed.
+lext It is true mate. Far left and far right both are bunch of agressive genocidala maniacs.
,,Cultural shifts are not police business nor a matter for the courts to decide.''
Violence in the streets are exatcly matter for police and courts.
Comment has been collapsed.
I find it just as off-topic as you. Hence it belongs in off-topic.
Comment has been collapsed.
wow just noticed 2 policemen also died in a helicopter crash O_o
what a messed up day
Comment has been collapsed.
I don't agree with racism in any form, but countering hatred with hatred should never be the answer.
Comment has been collapsed.
It's not that I disagree with you, but being indifferent gets us nowhere either. These bastards won't listen to anyone that approaches them with reason or compassion.
If someone has to harm, physically or otherwise, a neo-nazi or whatever these fascists want to call themselves, in order to protect the lives of innocents, again, physically or otherwise, then I won't lose any sleep over it.
I hate fascists. Plain and simple. And I'd gladly harm any number of them if it saved the life of that girl and the police officers, because they are murdering criminals, and this isn't going to go away with a prayer, as much as I'd like to see that. This is the unfortunate result of a government that doesn't see it politically necessary to protect its people from these hateful criminals.
For the record: I'm not saying we should get together like antifa, and start riots against them, because that's a whole different slice of cake and takes it to extremism.
All I'm saying is, I'd take a bullet for any of the victims, and throw it right back at those white nationalists.
Comment has been collapsed.
To a degree I agree with you and I don't like fascists either.
But treating them the same way as they treat others, doesn't that make us just as bad as them?
Couldn't it be that most of them are just misinformed by the media.
They say all Muslims are bad, mainly because of ISIS is an Islamic organization, to me that is just silly, just as silly as it would be to call all Christians racists, because the KKK is a Christian organization.
But like you said, they don't listen to reason or compassion. So I doubt they would listen to aggression and hatred, and possibly that could only make things even worse.
I just wish I was smart enough to come up with a solution for this.
Comment has been collapsed.
Agreed with most everything you've said there.
I don't have a solution myself, outside of trying to set the example I'd like to see by not spreading hate, violence, and racism.
Comment has been collapsed.
Actually, this guy has some interesting things to say about that.
http://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/the-current-for-august-15-2017-1.4246788/ideology-on-violent-far-right-is-just-as-toxic-as-isis-former-white-supremacist-speaks-out-1.4246815
Comment has been collapsed.
Well, that certainly confirms that maybe, in some way, I'm trying to do the right thing, and also really provided some additional perspective.
Thank you for the link, Melisand :)
Comment has been collapsed.
I completely understand and agree with you. Nothing short of reasonable. I wish I had a solution as much as you.
Comment has been collapsed.
I can't believe acts such as these still exist in this day and age, you would think World War II should have taught us Nazis are not very nice people.
Comment has been collapsed.
That was the common thought, until governments started using "Fake news" as an excuse for their actions (USA), and others started manipulating scientific facts (Turkey) in their education system.
Now we're seeing the effects of that. It made what always existed louder and bolder.
Comment has been collapsed.
Comment has been collapsed.
Charlottesville related / ideological fascism:
-
Leftists Make Life Hell For Man They Misidentify As White Supremacist || p1
-
This rock just got rolling - where will it end - Abraham Lincoln, George Washington? || v1
-
What some of the policed and "moderate" protesting lefties look like. || p0 || p1 || p2 || v1
- Googles-Ideological-Echo-Chamber by senior Google engineer James Damore || n2 || v1 || v2 || source
- YouTube Moves To Censor “Controversial” Content 3D - Demotivate, Demonetize, Deplatform || n2 || v1
Anyone surprised if these extremes won't feed right into the hand of another extreme/cause a reaction? What happened to
discussing and dismantling bad ideas with arguments based on facts, instead of shutting them up or resorting to mob action?
Right ... when the arguments are no good, the facts and data speak against you, just shut them down with censorship, smear-campaigns, slander, threats, public shaming and physical violence. One's for certain, neither (depiction below) represents the vast majority - but only one is rampant (for now), bandwagoning all kinds of politic/ideological agendas while claiming the "high road".
Comment has been collapsed.
Lol what?
First off, Churchill was decent in defending Britain from Axis powers, but he was a shitty politician and person otherwise.
This first thing is a result if the internet thinking they're knowlegdeble enough to investigate bad events, the same thing happend after the boston Marathon Bombing with worse results.
The second is them literally saying we need specialized people to discuss and figure out what to do with these statues, how is that to your point?
Have you never seen a protest before? That's what they look like. Also that's freedom of speech, so what's your point?
The rest aren't even tangibly related and are companies who don't have to pander to everyone, and can make thier own descions.
when the arguments are no good, the facts and data speak against you
Yeah no, Nazism is stupid and wrong, do we seriously have to go over this again?
just shut them down with censorship, smear-campaigns, slander, threats, public shaming and physical violence.
Well speaking agaisnt them is also freedom of speech, not censorship. And the white nationalists are violent. Their idealogy is based on violence, so voilence does repesent them all.
Comment has been collapsed.
Not saying this because of this particular reply or anything, but I've read a lot of your comments (nearly all, I believe) in this thread, and I felt I needed to say this ...
I believe we need more young people like you in the world today, willing to get involved, taking a stance, and speaking out against what you feel the injustices of the world are. You're willing to educate yourself about world-views, politics, racism, hate, and many other serious issues. and you're not afraid to speak your mind in a reasonable and mature manner.
That's truly commendable.
I don't always agree 100% with everything you say, but, in general, you set a good example.
Comment has been collapsed.
Yeah no, Nazism is stupid and wrong, do we seriously have to go over this again?
No because being a Jew myself and having a decimated family on my mother's side because of the stinking WWII nazis I clearly say that the only good (neo) nazis are the very dead ones preferably dumped into the deep sea as they serve no purpose in this world and they are by their words and actions no longer a part of this world and the human race. Why be humane to inhumane (neo) nazis???
Comment has been collapsed.
I'm pretty sure that nazis can have their uses - like, we can put them in a zoo and charge admission for whoever wants to see wild animals that can't even talk. xD
Comment has been collapsed.
I hear there's some space left in the invertebrates section of the zoo.
Also I know that you are a Greek and Greeks of any religion suffered greatly under the nazi invasion and occupation, even to date (golden dawn nutters).
Comment has been collapsed.
We've been occupied by many countries. xD But yeah, nazis did a great deal to us. :/
Yeah, golden dawn is pure shit. Far-right political party with nazi flags and nazi salutes. Screw them. And a lot of people vote for them. ;_; They're murderers. They kill whoever they don't like.
Comment has been collapsed.
They crashed a car into counter protesters murdering in and injuring 19
You should correct that.
Comment has been collapsed.
It's not often I day this, but today I am proud to be Virginian, as we stand against the white supremacist and neo nazi fucks rallying.
They crashed a car into counter protesters murdering one and injuring 19, it really doesn't still feel like this decade with race based terrorism going on in this country.
A fucking terrorist attack is committed by white nationalists and the President is blaming both sides, because of course he wont blame the alt right, they're his voting base. "Egregious display of hatred and bigotry on many sides." I mean, I feel maybe the openly racist neo nazis, altright, and white nationalists are the bigots, and the violence , ya know, since they just rammed a car into a crowd?
Edit: the victim of the car attack is still unidentified as police are working towards notifying her family.Edit 2: Some people might get the idea that I'm saying anyone leaning right is bad with my previous title, I was just trying to make it opposite of #unitetheright. The neo nazis and white nationalists are who I am against.
Edit 3: The victim has been identified as Heather Heyer, a 32 y/o Virginian paralegal with the Miller Law Group,
Comment has been collapsed.