It's not often I day this, but today I am proud to be Virginian, as we stand against the white supremacist and neo nazi fucks rallying.

They crashed a car into counter protesters murdering one and injuring 19, it really doesn't still feel like this decade with race based terrorism going on in this country.

A fucking terrorist attack is committed by white nationalists and the President is blaming both sides, because of course he wont blame the alt right, they're his voting base. "Egregious display of hatred and bigotry on many sides." I mean, I feel maybe the openly racist neo nazis, altright, and white nationalists are the bigots, and the violence , ya know, since they just rammed a car into a crowd?

Edit: the victim of the car attack is still unidentified as police are working towards notifying her family.

Two state troopers died when a State Police helicopter crashed in the woods outside Charlottesville. The wreckage was fully engulfed in flames, according to images from local media.
The victims were identified as the pilot, Lt. H. Jay Cullen, 48, of Midlothian, Va.; and Berke M.M. Bates, 40, of Quinton, Va. Officials do not suspect foul play.

Edit 2: Some people might get the idea that I'm saying anyone leaning right is bad with my previous title, I was just trying to make it opposite of #unitetheright. The neo nazis and white nationalists are who I am against.

Edit 3: The victim has been identified as Heather Heyer, a 32 y/o Virginian paralegal with the Miller Law Group,

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1 week ago*

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The most horrible thing to me is that I feel like if it was proven that the car was driven by a leftist radical the response here would be a lot different and it wouldn't be "both sides are problematic" so much as "fucking liberals, sjws, radicals etc they're all nuts!".

The future Martin Luther King JR, Gene Roddenberry, Gandhi, and other visionaries is harder to see every day...

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I think the major problem is that people tend to overlook or strike out that nice little word "consensus" in their dictionary. It's much easier to point the finger at someone or something and blame them/it for everything bad instead of working together, putting differences aside, and overcoming what divides or hinders humanity as a whole from progressing. Doesn't really matter if the nutcase driving the car was white, black, male, female, short, tall, ... - they were a product of that hate-filled environment which once again dicharged in a mass frenzy over a ridiculous and petty thing like a statue. Well, on the other hand, you can't argue with the self-deluded and self-righteous, the constantly recurring conundrum of being tolerant of the intolerant :x. Let's just hope that police'll do their job properly and disband everything or at least seperate them appropriately.

I gotta admit, you've put a smile on my face by squeezing Gene between King Jr. and Gandhi ;D.

1 week ago
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I too wish we could leave identity politics

1 week ago
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Agreed, but we must also acknowledge that the media on the left side would also downplay this scenario like they have done in past terrorist attacks where the accuser was a Muslim

1 week ago
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No, we don't. That is a ridiculous assumption based on your opinion.

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Well glad to see that you believe people on one side would justify wrong actions of a guy bc thre on the same political side but cant imagine seeing it in the other, and no its not based on opinion or assumptin its based on past events where the media and even government officials downplayed actions made Muslim Terrorist or people that fought in the same cause as them

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Please do not attempt to put words in my mouth.

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Thats what I stated that individuals that are biased on both sides might downplay it and that we must acknowledge that, your response was and I quote "No, we don't". And again ironic since you straw manned another one of my agruements on the forum, or you just completely ignored my point and made a comment defending something that wasn't even attacked. Your choice, I dont like assuming ill intent.

1 week ago
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Are you the media on the left side? lol
What a ridiculous response.

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That's probably because any physical action seems to go against their verbal ones in many cases. At least in my neck of the woods we see Left as treehuggers, tea drinkers, fight fire with love... Next thing you know they murder an opposition leader and chain themselves to a gate while throwing molotovs... :P

1 week ago
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Almost anyone in history that was moderatly left or to a lesser degree would not be right, I do wish competition would return tho. Also I like hugs and tea

1 week ago
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if it was proven that the car was driven by a leftist radical the response here would be a lot different and
it wouldn't be "both sides are problematic" so much as "fucking liberals, sjws, radicals etc they're all nuts!"."

Except, that there's no need for that, the vast majority of the western civilized world and their artificial intelligence knows.

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1 week ago*
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Shots fired.. xD

1 week ago
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The future Martin Luther King JR, Gene Roddenberry, Gandhi, and other visionaries is harder to see every day...

I know you're a huge fan but don't you think naming Roddenberry among the other two detracts from the actual real achievements of Martin Luther King and Gandhi ?

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I can't think of too many other white people whose impact on popular culture and sociopolitical movements has had a more important affectover the past 50 years, tbh. Most white politicians are worthless, and while a lot of artists, musicians, and other creative intellectuals that happen to share my melanin levels have been very influential if you look at the many "firsts in the popular zeitgeist where progressive ideas and values were expressed you will find that Star Trek led most of them. Granted the show did not have the audience it does now but the germs of the ideas were there first.

Obviously I could have named more names but I chose those three specifically:)

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Interesting. I was going to ask you some questions, but then I found this.
https://www.libertarianism.org/media/free-thoughts/politics-star-trek

1 week ago
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Oh...hmm, not sure how much ST has to do with libertarianism (Roddenberry himself would probably be considered a socialist today) but I do recommend these if you're interested:

Star Trek and History
Trekonomics: The Economics of Star Trek
Otherworldly Politics: The International Relations of Star Trek, Game of Thrones, and Battlestar Galactica

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Considering how often the Prime Directive got broken (original series), more than you might think. I haven't finished reading it yet, but so far there's no attempt to pigeonhole ST or force it into a libertarian mold. It's just a deft and interesting political/cultural analysis that understands Rodenberry's et al roots in post WW2 humanism and individualism and knows how to bring that into perspective in the Cold War/New Left milieu of the 60s.

I will give those a try, but since they are all books, any one that stands out above the others that I could start with?

1 week ago
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I guess in a way Roddenberry's vision of the future inspired many other smart people to make some of his ideas reality but I'm not sure how much of the credit for that should go to Roddenberry and how much to the people doing those things.

When it comes to visionaries who actually changed the word I think Semmelweis or Fleming would have been a better fit.

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all this blame right vs left gets on my nerves a bit..both sides can have some asshole that thinks he can hurt people. I only see the usual right blame in the media. I wish i could go on this guy's FB page but i heard it's been deleted. Things that make you go hmm..also makes me wonder who came to who's rally this time. Normally it's Antifa and BLM starting crap at Trump Rallies or conservative lectures. But maybe this time it was the other way around because of revenge? Not much on what the media is saying because they just blame one side. I never seen anything like this in my entire life. Even I have to check someone's FB page to see if they even supported Trump like the media states then find out they are Bernie supporters. They are all grown adults and need to sit the heck down all of them ON BOTH SIDES until they all learn how to have a peaceful protest. BLAME BLAME BLAME..poor Trump has to be in the middle of it all and will most likely be blamed for it when we all know whose fault it is..the people who was involved who caused this violence in the first place by not leaving each other alone..push push push until one conforms to the other's view..anyways can we all have one goal for a change and to keep our constitution and individualism intact? Can people stop messing with each other for a change because one person thinks differently than the other? FFS. I'm so sick of this stupidity from both sides and the media on both sides. They need to find a common ground..it's like they want the people to be divided this way. When I speak of other "Groups" it's the past but it's stuff that leads up to the crap that happens now. The Nazis come from both sides. They are called SJW or they are called White Nationalist. They both riot and cause harm..And just because one voted Trump does not make them a Nazi or a white supremacist or a homophobe etc..some people voted for him because his political slate was clean...or there was no one else.... anyways it's how you treat people..either dismiss their views and have your views and move on or you push them to the edge telling them how to think and feel where they start running people over with cars or shooting up people. There is a phrase "People can take so much crap before they explode". Also I read that Trump actually blames all sides. I don't blame him really if that's the truth. But I don't even believe LA TIMES anymore either. Which is where I read this at while looking for this guy's fb page. Curious what their "Verdict" "blame" since they think they are the judge and jury these days. And you all wonder why I don't "Conform" to any of these "Bully" groups. I didn't do it in high school so why should I start now? Anyways rant over.

1 week ago
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Yup, the right can only take so much until someone explodes, although I find it hard to believe people are actually surprised that violently abusing half of the nation for an entire year not to mention everything else wouldnt get someone killed on the other side eventually.

1 week ago
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yeah I just wish people would for one: quit taking things out of context or pushing their ideals on others and two: leave each other alone..

1 week ago
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Right wing > Left Wing
Honestly do the above statements need to be debated? We have the same Leftist Logic, fallacies and tactics that have been used and beaten being brought up again. For this reason exacly the right will always win against the left as they double down on everything they do even thier failures. Its sad seeing such a one sided battle that overall lowers my political community standards

1 week ago
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what universe do you live in? jfc :|

1 week ago
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The one were trump got elected

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But at the same time the balance between Republicans and Democrats is shifting. If that means that Democrats are becoming more Right...what are Republicans becoming?

1 week ago
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Depends on what you mean as its different for political groups and ideologies. But as far as the notion that because one democrat becomes more right that equally a republican needs to become more radical is concerned, itll be wrong. What has happened is more spreading of leftist tactics and extremism while at the same time it protrays itself as "Libral". This causes real liberals and mild citizens that used to be democrat to lean more on the right since they have no choice and find more similarities with level headed people. Since Reps are the only semi-right party we are forced to pick them.

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A fitting mentality, given that your avatar is Monokuma.

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lol

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This "both sides are just as bad" bs is insufferable. Anyone still saying this either hasn't been paying attention to the news the last seven months or is just fuckin' bigoted

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at least i'm able to see what both sides do and not blinded to one side. Bigoted is seeing only one side as good and the other side is bad. I see that there is an asshole on either side..that's not bigoted..that's an equal observation on every single event that was read, seen, looked up, etc. From both sides.

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Well said

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thanks :)

1 week ago
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So you are saying that both sides are the exact same shade of grey? Is that an honest observation or an unwillingness to look deeper?

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I was about to say ...

"Invariably there's a bigger asshole on one side", but you've said it much more nicely than I would have.

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no.. i'm not saying that .. I am saying there is an asshole in every group of good people that will cause mayhem or even hurt someone. Perhaps you are being silly and just asked for the heck of it to see what i would say or.. lol

Examples: Christians: They go to church, live their lives, spread the word etc..they never hurt anyone..they just get annoying sometimes. No big deal really..
Then you have that one asshole that will actually go out and kill or hurt people over it.. It's like the Muslims.They pray to their god, they take care of their families ect..not bothering anyone..then there are those that think killing people in the name of their God is righteous.

It's just like the right and left..they work, go home, spend time with their families. Not bothering anyone. Then you have the ones on both sides that think hurting or killing people, destroying property etc in the name of their ideals will make the government change them. Or make others conform to their ideals.

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Im pretty sure they just see violence from individuals on both sides

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What exact metric would you suggest to really compare both sides and settle this once and for all?

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I think its time for the Supreme leader to just nuke us all and end it all .

Its not a day without people being shot , ran over , stabbed or something similar on mass cause Religion and/or race .

There are literally videos of the car running people over and thats not taken down ... you see people being killed and thats cool cause the shitty sites need to get those clickbait add money ...

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Please nuke them Supreme Leader

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Car Strikes Charlottesville Crowd, 1 Dead
1 Dead

*RACIST!*
*NAZIS!*
*rants*
*YOU'RE WRONG!*
*IDIOT*
*YOU ARE!*
*LEFTIST SCUM*
*rants*
*STUPID*
*TERRORIST!*
*CONSTITUTION RIGHTS!*
*NO!*
*rants*
*RIGHT WING TRASH*
*BIGOTS!*
*SJW*
*YES!*
*rants*

sg, always focused on the most important issue at hand.

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Americans are hyper-sensitive to… well, everything. Only their hyper-sensitivity tends to reach hysteria so big, it can affect quite large parts of the world. Like when somebody had a panic attack in the New York stock exchange, and 15 years later that managed to be one of the original root causes of WWII.
So… yeah, when they start yet another hysteria, people tend to be a little cautious and on the lookout for reports, especially since the current leadership is the "bomb first, ask questions never" type.

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Well, at least I understood your comment. -_-

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I'm sure that sounded witty in your head, but I'd like to think that someone driving a car into a crowd crammed in a confined area during a counter-protest is more concerning than the apparent purity of the off-topic forums in a videogame site.

This event did not happen in a vacuum.
And more importantly, you aren't required to read or respond if you find it so distasteful or lacking in some form of apathetic entertainment value.

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She's stating that people seem to be more concerned about calling one another names and furthering their own personal agendas over showing any concern that someone was killed and others injured over opposing views.

1 Dead

Repeated twice, once in bold.

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I interpreted it as it was ONLY 1 dead and there was a lot of fuss being kicked up over a small matter. Glad to be wrong

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I suppose it helps that I know her better than most.
Since you've put it that way, I can certainly see why someone would think that, but I assure you it's not the case.
Mully's quite a bit more sensitive, and in particular to seeing tragedy through the bullshit, than she appears on the forums.

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As soon as you explained it, it all of a sudden made a lot more sense but prior, I honestly did believe that was what she meant.

Now that I understand what she actually meant I wholeheartedly agree, everytime some shit like this happens the focus always gets put elsewhere but on the tradegy, as seen in the thread, as people see it as an opportunity to further their own agenda...
There's always also the people who try to pretend that's not what they're doing by "of course it's tragic, but..."

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Tone counts for a lot, and to be honest it isn't the first time Mully has meant one thing but phrased it sounding like the complete opposite. I've had a hard time figuring if they're trolling or being genuine half the time, given the tone often skirts that of trolling sarcasm. The dangers of the internet I suppose?

1 week ago
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When in doubt, ask.

1 week ago
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The onus isn't solely on the reader, plus I'd prefer not to have to ask every other time someone posts. ;P
Besides, "Are you trolling right now?" or "Can't tell how genuine this is" or "What are you trying to imply here?" is typically just as likely to be met with the same kind of half-and-half tone and maintain confusion.

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I do agree -- while her sarcasm and wit are her most effective weapons, they can sometimes backfire on her, and occasionally prevent her from being taken seriously when she is being serious.

Regardless of why or how, I'm glad the issue is at least somewhat cleared up.
I'll chalk myself up for one "good deed for the day" and run along. :P

Cheers!

1 week ago
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Haha. Now if only there were more wingmen/women like you ;P

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you really don't get it?
1 person died and all the rants in this thread are about stupid issues unrelated to it.

the fact is someone DIED, and all they do is point fingers at hitler, BLM, left, right, etc. it's completely disrespectful and stupid.

btw, thanks for the blacklist.

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Yes, I didn't get it. Because of your way of highlighting "1 dead" it seemed as though you were portraying it as a non-issue, especially given in the following strawmanesque list you put those outraged at the incident on the same level of those who would fire off "SJW" and "leftist scum" in a thread about murdering protesters.

While I agree it generally dips into idiocy all too quickly, my comment about this stuff not happening in a vacuum still stands. The permissiveness of loss of life, and the immediate jumping to the false equivalence of "you're both just as bad" in a thread about literal attempted murder is an ongoing theme, and it rightfully rustles a lot of jimmies. Sometimes the conflict and discourse serves a purpose, even if most people can't keep it sober for more than a few posts before flying off the handle. I share your distaste but my worries about the trends and permissiveness wins out.

Thanks? THANKS!? Screw you. I'm taking you off my blacklist. See how you like THAT.
:folds arms:

But for real, the way you phrase things is like schroedingers sarcasm to me. I could never tell if you're trolling or genuine, and it always comes off as trying to provoke. Maybe because of the sheer number of assclowns I get exposed to on the regular. Tzaar seems to vouch for you so, once again back to benefit of the doubt. My bad I suppose? But make no mistake, I'm watching you Mullzowski, alwaaays watching.

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Meanwhile, 30-something dead in children in some hospital in India.
Because some bill didn't get paid.
That one casualty in Charlottesville.. not so bad, suddenly.

And your point again is?

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and that makes this death less important?

your point is?

1 week ago
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Apparently you're only allowed to care about one thing at a time.

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Not allowed, but that is how it works. But go on, continue to pretend that you care about some poor fella in sub-Saharan Africa that you don't even know on exactly the same level as you care about your significant other, siblings, parents, friends and further family.

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What are you even doing?

1 week ago
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Answering shitposts with shitposts. And you?

1 week ago
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No one said that, but have fun jerking off your straw man and better check your western privilege.

People are dying, all the time. More news at 11'..

1 week ago
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see this button?

go there and create a thread with cases you deem worthy of discussing, instead of picking fights with people that care about something.

western privilege

you don't even know where i live.

1 week ago
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Aha, good one, as if you really would care.

And that privilege part was a joke, in case if it wasn't obvious enough.

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Straw man? You mean like a death count comparison to assert some sort of tragedy equivalence?

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You mean like Stalin?

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What the living fuck?
Seriously.

That's the most ridiculous logic I've ever seen.

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Logic? That wasn't even a proposition, just a simple observation.

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I see your comments above, and you're way out of line (and verging on rude) assuming people care about one situation and not the other.

Regardless, this thread is about one of the two situations.
If you feel strongly enough about the other, perhaps you should be making a thread about it.

Otherwise, you're just derailing the current thread based on blind and baseless assumptions.

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Sure you are replying to the right person here?

Maybe you should scroll up to the first entry in this particular comment thread, and take a close look at who is really derailing what..

Any debate and exchange of ideas or arguments is suddenly verboten because, I paraphrase, someone died?

What is this? A smug holier-than-thou pissing contest?

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Meanwhile, 30-something dead in children in some hospital in India.
Because some bill didn't get paid.
That one casualty in Charlottesville.. not so bad, suddenly

No, I was referring to your comment.
This thread is about the dead in Charlottesville.

But go on, continue to pretend that you care about some poor fella in sub-Saharan Africa that you don't even know on exactly the same level as you care about your significant other, siblings, parents, friends and further family.

IMHO it's rude to 1) derail a thread and 2) make bold assumptions as you've done (assuming someone cares more about the loss of life in one place than they do in another)

1 week ago
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Read the original posting in this specific thread again...

1 week ago
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Come to Europe. Muslims run over people here way too often and alt-left never blames them. It's usually "not all Muslims are bad, this was just one rotten apple and does not represent Muslims at all".

What I do not like about your post is the lack of facts and the bigotry. I searched and found out that:

  • the rally was about saving historical confederate statue that is scheduled to be removed. Certainly only fascist would try to save this statue
  • there is no official statement about the driver and his political opinions or even the reason for this crime
  • blocking streets is always stupid idea and probably against some laws aswell (dunno about Virginia)

No, I do not agree with intentional harming or killing of another person! Laws are usually good thing and are made for reason so I act that way.

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I mean yeah, there were some pro confederate peeps, but it was mainly white nationalists chanting nazi slogans with iron crosses.

1 week ago
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I give you that. My sources are unclear even if I try to search further. Seems there were some racist idiots. I am still searching for more data and numbers of people from all groups. I found out two more people died because of that riots aswell. Whom to blame, the ones making the rally or the ones trying to stop them (even by force)?

Sidenote to all: only 2 blacklists? Come on, you can do more!

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The two others that died were police in a chopper that crashed following the car that rammed the group, so I'd say the ines making the rally, or specifically that individual.

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Oh go cry me a river...

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I'm always against violence, except when you want to defend yourself, but I can't really feel sad about fascists. Fascism should be illegal, but fascists always help (directly and indirectly) powerful politicians, hence why they don't do anything to them.

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Ironic thing is that the fascist are now those who call themselves anti-fascist...

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Supporting fascism should be illegal, just saying. History will repeat itself if too many fascists will appear.
But who are these anti-fascists that are now fascists? I'm sure that they exist, but I can't see any currently.

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Baloney.

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Still not clear what the real intent was, except for he wuz whitey, thus the thread by good boy here.

  • was it to run over some nationalists
  • was it to run over some anti-fascists (aka contemporary fascists)
  • was it excessive road rage (degenerates were chasing and throwing stuff at cars)
  • was he inspired by ISIS, as it is obviously a repulsive trend recently and mostly set by Muslim extremists (bad excuse)
  • check out this coincidentally matching "theme"
  • was he crazy (good excuse)

No matter what, nothing excuses the act ...

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People are shit. Left or Right, white or black. All same shit.

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The wisest answer so far. xD

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Finally I agree maybe twice with you, and you only weights 15 pounds.

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I'm sure Jesus said the same thing.

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Unfortunately there are already 837 terrorist attacks this year (2017), worldwide.

Some of the "people" you are describing in your main post are also active on SteamGifts and Steam...

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I don't know how to put it so many people won't get offended due to censorship nowadays, BUT if you're far left or far right, well then you're same coin - different side to me. And I explain my self. Due to the facts happened in the past from far-right, nazis nationalists or whetever it is convinient for you to call them, there is a great ANTI-nazi-far right- nationalist movement just to counter them? Is it any good? In my eyes: NO! Why that will you ask: Well because being EXTREME to counter some other EXTREME action doesn't change a thing. All we have to wittness is more violence from both sides. Also, I feel that (at least in my country) if you're not openly pro-left then your every word can be an "evidence" that you're a neo-nazi. That thing made me AVOID acting along with any left protestor. They think they doing good and DON'T GET ME WRONG they're fighting for good cause (most of the time) but they're doing it with the worst possible way! "YOU'RE WITH US, OR AGAINST US". As for me, I haven't and WON'T choose a political side, at least for now. Hope I didn't "offend" anyone.

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I mean, its not about a political side here, both right and left should be and are going against the white nationalists and neo nazis.

And with the allow of hatespeech as a necessary tradeoff for free speech, I think that anti nazi groups are necessary too.

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Yeas me too but anti-nazis go extreme way too often. You can't fight for equality and other things but never being open to even listen to someone who isn't on your party. Have tried to talk with some people and they even talked politics while discussing Game of Thrones. I mean they get their party's line like they teach them what to say and blame anyone opossite as a neo-nazi.

1 week ago
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I'd argue that you're wrong. The extreme left is a reactionary organization to the extreme right. The purpose is singularly to oppose the extreme right (nazi's, fascists, whatever). If the right disappeared the left would too, the opposite however is not true.

The extreme right is not formed as a reaction towards the left and thus it's independant, the extreme left is dependant on the extreme right. Might've just repeated myself I just wanted to be clear

1 week ago*
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If the right disappeared the left would too

Not so sure about this tbh. Although it would be nice and I get your point!

1 week ago
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Well I was talking about the extremes on each side. The purpose of the extreme left is to be against the extreme right, they don't have any other purpose. As such I don't see why they wouldn't disappear

1 week ago
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Now it makes more sense to me :P

1 week ago
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As I was talking about the extremes I hoped it would be clear that was what I meant but oh well :)

1 week ago
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TL,DR: One side good, one side bad.

And they wonder why history repeats itself, allegedly.

1 week ago
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Sure, if that's how you want to interpret it

1 week ago
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Well, you were arguing that "The extreme left is a reactionary organization to the extreme right".
But, hey, if that is what you want to believe, more power to you..

1 week ago
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I wish I could say the same for you, a blindness to facts is quite sad...

1 week ago
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Hear and awful lot of nothing about the Islamic extremist terrorist attacks from you, and the hate attacks by members of the far left "protesting" the election. Finally found one thing to fit your narrative, guess you need to use and abuse it. But I guess pointless name calling and generalizing an entire group based off baseless and defenseless stereotypes is easier than coming up with a definite solution which has both sides work together. Something I'm sure you're very quick to criticize when it appears on the other side of the political spectrum.

1 week ago
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Yeah, 'cause I didn't talk about politics or controversial things then. And this isn't a right left thing, it's a white nationalist and neo nazis v everyone else thing.

1 week ago
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While I still do not fully agree with you, I do commend you on making effort to help clarify your position and point by changing the title and editing your original post.

1 week ago
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Yeah, 'cause I didn't talk about politics or controversial things then.

When is that? They still happen all the time. Own up to the fact that you only post when the perp and/or victim matches your agenda. I'm not saying that's bad, but just own your bias.

And this isn't a right left thing, it's a white nationalist and neo nazis v everyone else thing.

You named the discussion "Fight the Right." It's been changed since, so it looks like you rightly want to walk that back.

1 week ago
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Well, I alwo didnt post politicallt controversial shit until a post like two weeks ago. And I post when it's relevent to me. This is happening where I live.

And yeah, I named it fight the right in resposnse to unite the right, a poor choice of title that seems like I'm attacking conservatives.

Edit 2: Some people might get the idea that I'm saying anyone leaning right is bad with my previous title, I was just trying to make it opposite of #unitetheright. The neo nazis and white nationalists are who I am against.

1 week ago
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You are always welcome to start your own thread on any topic you like.

1 week ago
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Wasn't my point but okay.

1 week ago
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Allow Hitler fanatics to rule, and look what happend.

1 week ago
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Hitler or Stalin... What great options we have...

1 week ago
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The problem is, that Hitler still gets shitons of cash after all the years he is dead from Meinkampf, his picture etc. There is an Discovery show that reveal some not well known facts alike it was not him, who killed French messenger durning WWI, but some jew, but propaganda makes miracles ya know? The show is called Hitler Definitive Guide.

1 week ago
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I'm probably going to get ALOT of blacklists for this but I'm going to say this anyways. Why do people mark this as Right-Winged etc. There are alot of terrorist attacks in Europe and we don't mark them as Left-Winged etc. Now I'm not saying that anyone deserves to get hurt but Black Lives Matter isn't clean themselves. They call for dead cops, which is in my opinion very very wrong Source. Now alot of Black Lives Matter people also don't agree with All Lives Matter which in my opinion is also wrong. For example a pretty populair tweet. They call that black people get killed much more by the police because they're simply black, this again simply isn't true. If you're going to look at the numbers around 13% of the US population is black, but they do around 50% of the crimes. If we're going to look at the data +- twice as many white males get shot compared to black males and if black males get shot it's usually by black cops. Another Source. Of course I'm not going to talk sense into all of you and that's not my purpose. I'm just saying that Black Lives Matter isn't a clean group at all. I haven't linked every thing they've done and every source here because it would simply be too long of a post. I know I'll get alot of hate because of this but please do your research.

1 week ago
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So white people are less than 5 times more than black people and get shot only half as many times as white people? Black people also have higher incarceration rates and jail sentences for the same crimes.

Blm isn't clean but your disagreement with it doesnt show that. Something that does, people have shot cops in the name of it.

And alt right, neo nazis and white nationalists are far right movements, they tried to unite with conservatives but have been rejected and condemned by a lot of them, but not the one in office.

1 week ago
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So white people are less than 5 times more than black people and get shot only half as many times as white people?

I don't really understand this sentence could you rephrase it? White people do get shot more by white people and black people get shot the most by black people. And once again if we're going to look at statistics black people do attack white people more then vice versa. Here is a picture that summaries a study done by the U.S. Department of Justice.

Black people also have higher incarceration rates and jail sentences for the same crimes.

Source? if we're going to look at the data there are as many whites and blacks in jail of course because blacks do more crimes (not hating just stating proven facts here, it's a larger % of the population.

Blm isn't clean but your disagreement with it doesnt show that. Something that does, people have shot cops in the name of it.

There have been a lot of shootings in the name of Black Lives Matter, one is already too many.

And alt right, neo nazis and white nationalists are far right movements, they tried to unite with conservatives but have been rejected and condemned by a lot of them, but not the one in office.

What does that have to do with anything at all? Yes they're Right-Winged. Neo Nazi's are too but the original Nazi's can weren't Left or Right. If you look at the Nationalism part yeah they we're far right. But if we're going to look at the Socialism part they were far Left. So what's your point?

1 week ago
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Nazis weren't socialist. They were far right. I was answering your question "Why do people mark this as Right-Winged etc"

There have been a lot of shootings in the name of Black Lives Matter, one is already too many.

Yes, I agree, (well, there weren't really a lot, but its still too many) however that wasn't what you said your problem with blm was.

http://www.sentencingproject.org/publications/color-of-justice-racial-and-ethnic-disparity-in-state-prisons/

There is an alarming disparity between black and Hispanic prisoners to whites.The particular drivers of disparity may be related to policy, offending, implicit bias, or some combination, and figuring that out and fixing it should be something we do.

1 week ago
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Nazis weren't socialist. They were far right. I was answering your question "Why do people mark this as Right-Winged etc"

Oh yes they were. I won't criticize you for being misinformed but they simply were. Nazism = National Socialism Source you can't argue with that it's simply a fact. I also find it funny that you call these people Nazis eventhough they're only nationalists which isn't wrong at all is it? Since Black Lives Matters is basically a Ethnic Nationalism club. And it's probably more Socialist related then these White Supremacists you here call Nazis

There have been a lot of shootings in the name of Black Lives Matter, one is already too many.
Yes, I agree, (well, there weren't really a lot, but its still too many) however that wasn't what you said your problem with blm was.

Like I've said in my original post:

I haven't linked every thing they've done and every source here because it would simply be too long of a post.

I simply can't make a 100 page document about it right here.

http://www.sentencingproject.org/publications/color-of-justice-racial-and-ethnic-disparity-in-state-prisons/

There is an alarming disparity between black and Hispanic prisoners to whites.The particular drivers of disparity may be related to policy, > offending, implicit bias, or some combination, and figuring that out and fixing it should be something we do.

Well there is a simply reason for it. They simply do more crimes then Whites... Do some research.

Here are a few more arguments that you're probably going to use so I'll debunk some of them already:

  1. If a black and a white people both commit a crime the black person is more likely to be arrested. This is of course because black people are more heavily policed.

Of course this argument is false. Black people simply do most often live in more dense urban areas. These areas are more heavily policed than suburban areas which has nothing to do with race. It's simply because when people live in close proximity to one another, police can monitor more people more often. In more heavily policed areas, people committing crimes are caught more frequently

  1. When black people are arrested for a crime, they are convicted more often than white people arrested for the same crime.

This is again false. An arrest and charge doesn't always lead to conviction. A charge can be dismissed or a defendant may be declared not guilty at trial. Whether or not an arrestee is convicted is often determined by whether or not a defendant can afford a reputable attorney. The interaction of poverty and trial outcomes could help explain why, for example, while black defendants represent about 35% of drug arrests, 46% of those convicted of drug crimes are black. (This discrepancy could also be due to racial bias on the part of judges and jurors.)

  1. When black people are convicted of a crime, they are more likely to be sentenced to incarceration compared to whites convicted of the same crime.

When a person is convicted of a crime, a judge often has discretion in determining whether the defendant will be incarcerated or given a less severe punishment such as probation, community service, or fines. One study found that in a particular region blacks were incarcerated for convicted felony offenses 51% of the time while whites convicted of felonies were incarcerated 38% of the time. The same study also used an empirical approach to determine that race, not confounded with any other factor, was a key determinant in judges’ decisions to incarcerate.

1 week ago
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Yeah, that souce also says it's only socialist in the name. I won't criticize you for being misinformed but they simply weren't.

The term "National Socialism" arose out of attempts to create a nationalist redefinition of "socialism", as an alternative to both international socialism and free market capitalism. Nazism rejected the Marxist concept of class conflict, opposed cosmopolitan internationalism, and sought to convince all parts of the new German society to subordinate their personal interests to the "common good" and accept political interests as the main priority of economic organization.

.

This discrepancy could also be due to racial bias on the part of judges and jurors.
The same study also used an empirical approach to determine that race, not confounded with any other factor, was a key determinant in judges’ decisions to incarcerate.

So you're agreeing with me? There is a racial bias that has some impact on incarceration rates in this country. There are also socioeconomic conditions that result in poc commiting more crimes and other issues that should be addressed.

1 week ago
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Yeah, that souce also says it's only socialist in the name. I won't criticize you for being misinformed but they simply weren't.

I'm not saying that they are Socialist in traditional sense. Communism wasn't the traditional Socialism either.

So you're agreeing with me? There is a racial bias that has some impact on incarceration rates in this country. There are also socioeconomic conditions that result in poc commiting more crimes and other issues that should be addressed.

Well TBH I was quoting another source there. I don't fully agree but of course there might be judges that do this. But of course not only to black people but also to white people.

1 week ago
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This sort of semantic dissection is unnecessarily treading water. It doesn't matter what you define it as, only that it's currently happening.

1 week ago
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Well there are no real Nazi's at this moment. Only Neo Nazi's and that sort of stuff.

1 week ago
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Yeah, so no armed military invasion and active ethnic cleansing, just a semi-passive infection of people who hold the same values and trying to enact them through more intelligent guerrilla-style social warfare and angling on political policy. Why bother opposing that? I'm sure we can just wave a magic wand and remove them easily once they are completely legally entrenched and have instilled themselves as innocent martyrs of free-speech. It's not like the original nazis had to 'politely' build a social and political base before actualising their values through military means, right? I mean, neo-nazis aren't heard espousing things about purity all the time, right?

I hope you'll forgive my cutting into a thread chain I haven't read with my petty use of strawman-style grouching but :

no real nazis at this moment. 'Only' neo nazis.

...that's one nuclear hell of a myopic thing to see written anywhere. I mean, please, just really pause and think about this for a second. Especially the use of 'only' and 'at this moment'.

1 week ago*
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Nazi's won't return since it was from the party but I do think something similar on the rise. I see that alot of White males getting silenced when they have an opinion. These opinions aren't bad at all but when they aren't allowed to speak they get more radical. Of course this isn't good but that's just how it is. When the news in my country speaks they say a White male has stabbed someone but when someone of color or a refugee rapes someone they just say that someone was raped, which is in my opinion very very wrong. The refugee crisis isn't helping either but we aren't allowed to say anything negative about that are we? No we need to help they but what do they do? In my country 90% of they do nothing but to harass young women and complain. They get free water and food. What do they do? Complain about not having enough privacy to have sex with their wives. They get free money and healthcare. What do they do? Complain that the wifi isnt good enough. All of these things aren't helping. Alot of young people (especially White males because they get blamed for everything) are pissed. And quite frankly I don't blame them.

1 week ago
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Except that Nazism is literally here, and it's symbolism, slogans and values have bled into other groups.

Sexism towards men and racism towards caucasian is a definitely a downplayed thing, but that is not the subject, feel free to make your own thread though. Wanting to oppose that form of passive sexism and racism does not directly correlate to defending nazis, and as a white caucasian I would thank you to not fucking co-opt that shit. Yes, facing prejudice makes people angry, bitter, and prone to forming counter-prejudices. It does not however magically make them leap several steps of rationality and start using material anchored in ethnic cleansing. If you wanted to disagree with the notion that men are violent and whites are spoiled children, then suggesting that even ironically becoming a member of a purity group is a natural and expected step, then you're not only providing fuelling their confirmation bias but a little batshit TBH.

When the news in my country speaks they say a White male has stabbed someone but when someone of color or a refugee rapes someone they just say that someone was raped, which is in my opinion very very wrong.

Then challenge those who write (and blindly circulate) the news, don't blame entire races the media are playing bias to. You'll also find that newsmedia does this from both sides, spinning situations to suit their own narratives. Consider the often pointed out twin news clippings of black people "looting" stores during a flood, side by side with a clipping of white people "gathering supplies" during the flood. It's also a common phenomenon for whoever is considered 'undesireables' to be frequently shown in a negative light. Consider the usage of photographs in news media, where the party they wish to demonise is always portrayed in mugshots or video stills that are chosen for their mid-emote ugliness, whereas those they want to paint as the victim always has the innocent family photo or the upstanding citizen photo. This applies across all bias groups, but varies depending on the source. You are not exempt from this phenomon, as your scrabbling to defend purity-oriented violence has chosen multiple 'undesireables' to scapegoat.

The refugee crisis isn't helping either but we aren't allowed to say anything negative about that are we? No we need to help they but what do they do? In my country 90% of they do nothing but to harass young women and complain. They get free water and food. What do they do? Complain about not having enough privacy to have sex with their wives. They get free money and healthcare. What do they do? Complain that the wifi isnt good enough.

'They' are an entire demographic, and your taxi-cab remarks are generalisations. This is a frequent mentality held towards outsider groups. Refugees and even immigrants regardless of origin and destination face this mentality. You can bet that those who are entirely grateful and humbled will still face this kind of judgement, simply because they are the 'other'. If they integrate well, you will undoubtedly move on to claiming they're stealing 'our' jobs. If they struggle to adapt, you will call 'them' lazy mooches. If they adapt well and work hard to create a good life for themselves, 'they' will be seen as examples of people getting fat on 'your' charity. Even if they have been legal citizens for generations prior to any refugee situation. The homeless also face this mentality. When you dehumanise and generalise, they stop being humans and start being figments of your imagination. By all means, observe trends, but pretending that an entire demographic of human beings behaves so uniformly says as much about your perception as it does those you're calling out.

All of these things aren't helping. Alot of young people (especially White males because they get blamed for everything) are pissed. And quite frankly I don't blame them.

Passion is a great fuel for change. However it is also a great fuel for prejudice is mismanaged. Consider the subject that we were actually discussing before you threw this curveball. You have tried to validate the existence of purity rhetoric because of frustration about not being listened to, or facing racism/sexism. Allow me to propose an alternate hypothesis : Your reasoning is not only unconvincing but insulting to peoples intelligence, and they either do not listen because the things you spout have been frequently heard for generations (but with shifting scapegoats), or because they have a distinct waft of "But to be fair..." apologism in the face of a literal murderous attack on protesters? :P

Don't get me wrong. I'm an egalitarian. I can't stand under the banner of feminism while so much passive sexism and racism is being normalised right under their noses (ultimately defeating their own objectives). I appreciate what Social Justice tries to do but cannot stand the venom and hypocrisy. But to frame them as a hidden evil while also apologising for a grotesquely worse mirror of that? All I can say is : Get your shit together.

Tackling prejudice does not require you to nurture ones of your own.
Confronting people with toxic underpinnings does not require us to smear every cause that they touch. If what you're interested in is truly just an end to prejudice, then the non-extremists of the opposite side should actually be your greatest allies. Please, step back and re-examine how you're approaching this. You may feel that you're a lucid individual who can see past the bullshit to the 'real truth', but from where I'm standing you're just one of the many people helping fuel the divides, not solve them.

1 week ago*
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Cringe

1 week ago
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Go away, this website is about video games. Leave politics at the door please.

1 week ago
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Well my door is current crawling with neo nazis, so its kinda hard to leave politics alone.

Also terrorist attacks and Nazis are something I don't really see as politics, just something we should all be against.

1 week ago
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Nice you can have weapons to defend your home almost freely as Pepsi on your fridge.

1 week ago
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That doesn't really make any sense but okay.

1 week ago
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my door is current crawling with neo nazis,

Weapons do bang bang
Or do you like bats or machetes more?

1 week ago
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I prefer combat boots and knifes tbh, your comment still doesn't make since, as I can't have a gun, and If I could, it would still be irrelevent to this situation?

1 week ago
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Just please, all you are doing by posting this is making people hate you while at the same time starting arguments.

1 week ago
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Off-Topic

I'd suggest not opening threads in that category if you want to avoid anything non-gaming related, because that's precisely why that category is there.

1 week ago
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I never understood those categories, sometimes I post giveaways there

1 week ago
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There's usually an Off-Topic on every forum, or at least all I've ever visited. O.O
Giveaways are most definitely Steamgifts and gaming related.

1 week ago
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I'm deeply sorry for the victims, no one deserves to be hurt for his opinions.

☮️

1 week ago
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Yesterday by the recommendation of ProZD I put a layer of cheese on top of my noodles. It was great

1 week ago
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I need to try this next time I have noodles, thank you.

1 week ago
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Enough of with these politics please.

1 week ago
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'Enough of with' these threads you don't want to read, but open anyway

1 week ago
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The whole "both sides are wrong" spiel is some spineless, deflecting bullshit. It allows people the appearance of involvement, without ever truly examining the situation or themselves.

The prevalent attitude I see is one of, "ugh! why do we have to be TALKING about this!?" As if it's some extreme burden to hear people discussing an issue important to them. Choose to care or not, but these "neutral" statements are ridiculously apathetic and shortsighted. It's this same lack of involvement that has led to our current state of affairs.

tl;dr: This overwhelming apathy, under the guise of knowledged temperance, is nausea-inducing.

1 week ago
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Yup

1 week ago
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i dont think the 'both sides are wrong' caused someone to get in a car and run people other, surely the opposite is true i.e. i choose this side 100% and those people chose that side so now imma kill em

1 week ago
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Thanks for proving my point. You just took an extreme example and used it as "justification" to generalize and dismiss.

1 week ago
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wut?

1 week ago
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Bingo.

1 week ago
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I think you kind of went too far with it yourself.
From what I read, he meant that those people tend to distance themselves more from politics by avoiding those discussions. They tend to be people that just want to do their own thing and let the global, political stuff stay in the back of their mental cupboard.
So, extremism usually erupts through strong beliefs, not through the lack of anything certain.
ISIS, Antifa, Westboro Baptist Church, Neo-Nazis, KKK. All of those groups are at the far end of their beliefs. ISIS, extremely devoted Muslims. Antifa, extremely left extremists. Westboro Baptist Church, extremely conservative. Neo-Nazis, supporters of facism, which is an extreme point of view and contrary to belief, isn't left or right. KKK, extreme conservatism on race relations.

None of them say: "Oh, I don't really care about politics".

1 week ago
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His point was to say that apathetic parties are not to blame for extreme actions. My point is that said apathy has cultured a breeding ground for such behavior.

1 week ago
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That logic suggests that by being 100% against people who try to murder protesters in a car, they are in fact fuelling further acts of people trying to murder protesters with cars.

Both sides can only be equally wrong, if both sides are engaging in violence and under the same conditions. The fallacy lays within what causes the violence. For example, if a stranger A walks up to stranger B in the middle of a street and punches them in the face, if stranger B punches them back, they are NOT equally as bad as their attacker. People who face a proven threat and choose to stand their ground rather than retreat are not a direct and equal moral equivalent of their attacker. While the overarching situation is more complex than that, you have one political group who has core values relating to 'purity' and dehumanising those that do not fall in line, the reaction to these values angling for legal policies is outrage and decrying those people as monsters. Because the reaction was also to dehumanise, they are not 'equally as bad'. When violence is caused by quote-unquote 'extremists' of the purity groups, and people respond in turn by treating said groups as a physical threat (especially wherever they assemble or publicly espouse their values), that is not being equally violent.

If we myopically oversimplify the cause of the maniac in the car as "its a natural effect of being totally opposed to the alt-right", then that means we must either stop opposing groups who either outright have purity mentalities, or merely have 'tendencies' towards them, or we should just shrug and accept the attempted murders as a normal result. I have a drastic idea : We should do neither, and call it for what it is.

To focus on it being a natural side-effect of polar thinking in the face of the gravity of the tragedy, quite simply downplays the scope of the situation and falsely puts both sides on the same ground, effectively being a passive social permit to murder because they got disagreed with.

1 week ago
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I have learned that it is not worth the effort of discussing things with people on the internet. It just become too much about emotion rather than facts.

1 week ago
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I do genuinely think that both sides are wrong. I think that the answer is somewhere in the middle. Some issues need a right-wing approach, some need the left-wing approach. Just because they're right on some of their points, doesn't mean that they're not wrong.

I agree, most who say that argument say it to stay out of the argument, stay on neutral ground and avoid negative reactions or to just sound really smart and clever by putting themselves on a pedestal that they seem to have personalized and "conquered".

1 week ago
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I do genuinely think that both sides are wrong. I think that the answer is somewhere in the middle. Some issues need a right-wing approach, some need the left-wing approach. Just because they're right on some of their points, doesn't mean that they're not wrong.

Unfortunately, this type of hemming and hawing often leads to generalization and inaction. People will use it as jaded proof of why they, "don't/won't participate in politics." Regardless of where the answer lies, people seem all to eager to "not care about politics," despite its real implications in their life, on the basis of this flimsy justification. As you pointed out, this middle-ground philosophy is, more often than not, an excuse to zone out.

1 week ago
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Because many don't actually think that life is black or white. You can't just say "This party is right, that one is wrong". That's not inaction. That's the opposite. That's innovation and that actually requires action. Politics has stayed stagnant for a very long time now. Most have the same viewpoints and you usually have to either be a democrat or republican. If you want to be anything else and claim that, you immediately have people saying that those aren't valid options and instead they're just pussyfooting around.

That's the reason why those people give up. The refusal to think that sometimes things are actually nuanced and more complicated than everything red or everything blue.

1 week ago
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"Very long time" is extremely subjective and not at all indicative of the actual political stability/stagnation. People like to compare the US to the Roman Empire, but the US has only been around roughly a tenth of the former's lifespan. If anything, politics is less stagnant now than ever, but this cloud of apathy has obsfucated the truth.

I am not stating that "one side is completely correct and the other is definitely wrong," and this tone of forced dichotomy is something you yourself seem to be encouraging. You commented on the black/white nature of a thing, which is exactly my point-- people like to paint politics as "politics" and dissassociate themselves completely. Using the hollow justification of "nothing is black and white" is a ridiculous copout if people then choose to disengage.

Yes, almost nothing in this world is purely black or white, but this certainly isn't excuse to refrain from political discourse of the society of which you are a living, breathing member.

There are no easy solutions, but we don't get anywhere if everyone "doesn't care about politics."

1 week ago
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Yeah, you've been saying this stuff for a while now, yet you never actually give examples or give anything to go on.
You just say that "this isn't true" or "people do this". What do they exactly do and how do they do it? Why isn't something true.

Politics is stagnant, in my opinion, because the same way of doing things has been going on since 1792. In that time, things have changed a slight bit. Using a 222-year-old idea is ridiculous. Even worse is that while it's not a two-party system technically, those two parties have been elected for 161 years straight.
We can compare anything to something that's older and pretend like it's not stagnant because of it. The steam-train was in use way less than horse carriages, so that means that it's actually new and underused technology. Just because I'm technically not wrong, doesn't mean that I'm not actually wrong.

"I am not stating that "one side is completely correct and the other is definitely wrong,""- Yet you antagonize those that say that they are both wrong. Of course, you're using an extreme example here, but it's funny because the current US political system is that. It's "they're completely right, they're completely wrong". That's why I'd say that it's a stagnant system. Here in Estonia, we have around 6 parties which are popular amongst the voters. 6 different viewpoints. America has 2. And even with Estonia's 6 viewpoints, they don't actually have so much political bullshittery and layers that someone couldn't just make a difference in what goes on in politics. In America, only the powerful politicians can whip votes. It's towing the party line. It's pretty much the definition of stagnation. Nothing changes, nothing moves. It always stays the same. Republicans and Democrats always want the same thing. It's a never-ending tug-of-war where both sides are of equal strength.

"Using the hollow justification of "nothing is black and white" is a ridiculous copout if people then choose to disengage." - For some, yes. For others, it's a way of saying that it's an awful system and everything should have a different approach to it, not that everything should be dealt with with the same mentality, like the parties currently do. There's always a democratic way of dealing with things and a republican way of dealing with things. Not everything should be dealt with the democratic way and not everything should be dealt with the republican way.

"There are no easy solutions, but we don't get anywhere if everyone "doesn't care about politics."" - Don't force people to play if they don't want to. Simple as that. Unless you want even more uninformed opinions.
It's not everyone, it's never been everyone. Things like this just don't make everyone interested.
Let's put this in another context. Going to the war. Will you currently go to Syria to fight ISIS? Nah, you won't. Otherwise you would've already done it. But, we won't get very far if we don't send more men out there. We need more fighters. Should people have no choice there either? Having more men would end the conflict quicker and there would be less casualties, so it's a win-win, right? People get paid and they stop a conflict. So why don't we apply the same logic to that?

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Let's not forget that by attempting to wash their hands of it, the apathetic masses are demanding that "someone else" deal with it. And they are waiving any say in what actually gets done.

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Well, both sides are wrong.

That's what the history of the 20th century teaches us..

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Not an excuse to cop-out.

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Cop out from what?

Is there any obligation to, uh, "participate"? In what, and how?

Also, I would really like to see a citation for that.

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Okay. I read this whole thread. I did a bit of reading of various articles.
What I am not finding is a statement of position from the organizers of the Unite the Right rally concerning this horrible attack. What I am finding is a lot of sources calling this a 'terrorist' attack by white supremacists (plural and vague). It isn't - until the group in question claims it. One kid from Ohio - I'm guessing a white supremacist, because what would he care about Robert E Lee - who takes it upon himself to commit vehicular homicide of one and possibly 5 more person(s) (5 are still critical) does not a terrorist attack make. If someone told him to, even if it was only 5 minutes before, that's different. No evidence yet, but when there's political hay to be made, who needs evidence.

I found a link. I found the guy, Jason Kessler, organizer of the rally. He has something to say but no-one is interviewing him. I find that disturbing. Let me just say that I in no way agree with his politics. I only agree with his right to free speech. I have no idea if he is lying or telling the truth. Time will tell. I do suspect that the role of the Charlottesville town fathers and police in creating a dangerous milieu, whether by accident of design, is being carefully swept under the carpet.

One last thing. I noticed much bandying about of the term "black racist" in this thread. There is no such thing - not in America. The concept of racism is predicated on the economic and political power of one group to oppress, suppress and discriminate against another. Black people do not, and never have had this power base. They can commit hate crimes and they can exercise prejudice, but that's it. Until this state of affairs changes, groups like BLM are always going to have justification and a good bit more of the moral high ground. Trying to play the reverse racism card is not going to change that.

Here's the link to Kessler's video.

https://www.pscp.tv/TheMadDimension1/1yoJMplRNDOGQ?autoplay&t=17

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Terrorism doesn't need to be organized. One person can plan and carry out an act of terrorism. Since the murder took place in Virginia, Virginia's state code has the relevant definition:

”Act of terrorism” means an act of violence as defined in clause (i) of subdivision A of § 19.2-297.1 committed with the intent to (i) intimidate the civilian population at large; or (ii) influence the conduct or activities of the government of the United States, a state or locality through intimidation.

The murderer is being charged with second-degree murder, which is one of the offenses listed under § 19.2-297.1, so the remaining qualifying factor is intent. Laws based on intent are notoriously difficult to enforce without a direct statement from the defendant. But I don't think there's any question that (a) this violence was politically motivated, (b) it was targeted not at the individual victims but at their class, protesters opposing white supremacism, and (c) the murderer wants other members of that class to feel unsafe appearing at protests. I'm not a lawyer, but I'd call it terrorism.

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One person can also plan and carry out a hate crime. Terrorism is a bit tricky to define - international law is still struggling with that - and to prove.

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I'd do as well..

But not long ago, I think two months or something, there was this guy in Washington D.C., attacking a bunch of politicians and staffers at a baseball game, almost murdering some member of congress or something.

Where was the clamor of "domestic terrorism" back then? Awfully silent on that front.

I don't know about you, but this double standard, this hypocrisy is what disturbs me more than anything else..

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That was an attempted political assassination, with specific targets. As such it doesn't have the arbitrary nature that we tend to associate with terrorist violence. But given that it absolutely had political intimidation in mind, I'd be comfortable calling it terrorism.

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Sure thing.
If you think about it, both are pretty much on the same level when it comes to specificity.
But no need to further split hairs here..

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Terrorism can be performed by a lone person. The purpose is what matters, not intent. Attacks to intimidate civilians or to intimidate goverment for a politcal purpose are terrorism.

And yeah, blacks can still be racist. They don't hold the power in the us, so only white people can commit institutional rascim and discriminate against another race at large, but black individuals and groups can certainly believe they are superior to other races, and be discriminatory and prejudiced to the extent of an individual.

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Perhaps but that has yet to be proven in this case. I honestly don't think this kid thought it through that far, and that this is basically a hate crime. But that is mere speculation on my part.
You seem to have made up a new term, institutionalized racism, which seems to be the equivalent to the definition that I used (which is the classic definition of the term). I am well aware that black people can exercise prejudice - I actually did say that. Discrimination, however, requires a power base.

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Again, this juggling of semantics is not the point.

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Okay, an alt right protester rammed into counter protesters, the facts point to an act of terrorism.

Lol, institutional racism ain't a new term.

Racism occurs between individuals, on an interpersonal level, and is embedded in organizations and institutions through their policies, procedures and practices. In general, it may seem easier to recognize individual or interpersonal acts of racism: a slur made, a person ignored in a social or work setting, an act of violence. However, "individual" racism is not created in a vacuum but instead emerges from a society's foundational beliefs and ‘ways' of seeing/doing things, and is manifested in organizations, institutions, and systems (including education). Below are some useful definitions:
Individual racism refers to an individual's racist assumptions, beliefs or behaviours and is "a form of racial discrimination that stems from conscious and unconscious, personal prejudice." (Henry & Tator, 2006, p. 329). Individual Racism is connected to/learned from broader socio-economic histories and processes and is supported and reinforced by systemic racism.
Because we live in such a culture of individualism (and with the privilege of freedom of speech), some people argue that their statements/ideas are not racist because they are just "personal opinion." Here, it is important to point out how individualism functions to erase hierarchies of power, and to connect unrecognized personal ideologies to larger racial or systemic ones. (That is, individualism can be used as a defensive reaction.) This is why it is crucial to understand systemic racism and how it operates.
Systemic Racism includes the policies and practices entrenched in established institutions, which result in the exclusion or promotion of designated groups. It differs from overt discrimination in that no individual intent is necessary. (Toronto Mayor's Committee on Community and Race Relations. Race Relations. Myths and Facts)
It manifests itself in two ways:
institutional racism: racial discrimination that derives from individuals carrying out the dictates of others who are prejudiced or of a prejudiced society
structural racism: inequalities rooted in the system-wide operation of a society that excludes substantial numbers of members of particular groups from significant participation in major social institutions." (Henry & Tator, 2006, p. 352)

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I stand corrected - I was not aware of the term. But I stand by my assertion that the definition I presented is fundamentally equivalent to the Institutional definition. Your excerpts above seem to indicate that 'individual' racism is related to or an expression of institutional racism. But nothing that supports your claim about black racism.

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Individual racism refers to an individual's racist assumptions, beliefs or behaviours and is "a form of racial discrimination that stems from conscious and unconscious, personal prejudice.

And anyone of any race can have or do those things. Individual racism is often tied to institutional racism, but that doesn't mean that it can't manifest as black vs white. These people often feel the pressure of institutional racism, and instead of lashing out towards the racist institution, they lash out towards individuals who aren't necessarily racist. They are some black people who feel all white people are evil and below them, and some who have committed acts of violence towards people just because they were white. That is racism.

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I read that. But I also noticed that it followed closely upon this statement:

However, "individual" racism is not created in a vacuum but instead emerges from a society's foundational beliefs and ‘ways' of seeing/doing things, and is manifested in organizations, institutions, and systems (including education). Below are some useful definitions:
Which appears to be the qualifying or controlling factor. At least, that's how I see it.
I actually agree with everything you stated afterwards, except the last 3 words. I found a link that expresses what I am trying to say perhaps better than I am doing. It's was said long before she says it. But it's still relevant and not just a question of semantics but what I feel to be an important concept.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/reverse-racism-isnt-a-thing_us_55d60a91e4b07addcb45da97

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Anyway, nice talk thank you.
Please understand that my original statement was in no way directed at you but at some posts that I felt were trying to play that card.

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