https://steamcommunity.com/app/792000/discussions/0/2265815747940538946/
You are not supporting us, we owe you nothing, yet we've gone to great lengths to support you.
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lmao ok kid
Is this the new Digital Homicide?
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that's good, it means they are financially stable as a company to afford lawyers over mundane insults, despite being paid in peanuts by IG and ignored on steam by the majority of buyers
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While I don't condone death threats, I do find that particularly funny. Good grief. XD
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Digital Homicide threatened players and actively brought frivolous lawsuit on a reviewer.
This dev is responding to a threat of violence, however empty that may seem/be.
Then looking at the digging Masafor did a few subthreads down from here, it looks like the dev was getting a lot of the "gamer" posterchildren in their forums. Whether they could have handled it better or not, I think it's safe to say they're a whole ballpark apart, IMO :p
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If you want to know more about Digital Homicide, I'd suggest these videos:
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qS-LXvhy1Do < Goes over the lawsuit.
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7hy44PZZX4 < Digital Homicide are back and claiming that they were in the right.
But what really did them in was when they tried to sue Steam users. That got Valve mad enough to kick them off Steam.
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Digital Homicide were around for a while before the pissed off Valve and kicked off Steam.
These guys aren't going to be on Steam for much longer. I can't see Valve tolerating someone who revokes legitimate keys, so it's just a matter of time before Valve acts.
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Digital Homicide came back as different devs/publishers. Many times.
I think the steam group "Sentinels of the Store" or "Sentinels of Steam" [i am not logged into steam right now and can't look + i don't have sleeped and it is 7:00 in the morning] can tell you much more about them.
They dig really deep if they find possible shady devs and publishers.
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This is quoted from an administrator from the IG forums.
But since we care about indiegala users, meanwhile each affected user who bought that indiegala bundle will receive a proportional compensation in galacredit that can be spent on our store to buy anything.
People buying the bundle at least will get some recompense rather than nothing so its something at least.
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And here I am sitting on an unrevoked (aka, still in my library) key. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
E: How'd I get sooooo lucky?
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it appears dev didnt manage to revoke all keys
i gave away 2 copies (IG and HRK) and looking back at both winners library, one is still activated
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I also own the game and so far my key has not been revoked!
We must be a right lucky pair :D
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OOF> And all this only a week before their next game was due out on Steam: https://store.steampowered.com/app/1127230/Shooting_Blaster_Big_Bang_Boom/
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I think the big bang boom might be quite appropriate for the upcoming fireworks/shitstorm coming their way :O
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The other ardent Pit Blocks 3D player is currently not online - but I assure you they exist.
I'm trying to figure out how I even got a copy of this game to be revoked in the first place - I don't buy Indiegala bundles - maybe it was from TremorGames.
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I sure hope the single user that didnt buy the game on steam, and left a review after 15 minutes of playtime still has an unrevoked key.
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From the 5 pages i readed, i looked as before the discussion was closed, i seen different people that said a lot of stuff to that dev that i would punish, directly, with a ban.
Insults, threatening him like shit, say "i destroy your career" and such stuff.
People are complete crazy and basic manners aren't common for all (in such threads for the smaller part of the people).
It should be the normal to give someone the time to explain the reasons and if reasons are given that it needs time to sort all.
He said 2800 keys from 10k were marked as sold and this keys weren't revoked.
The other 7,2k keys were revoked.
Because of the discussion/messages it is clear now that IG sold keys that they don't reported him as SOLD and not paid him for.
In the end they stole it (if the contracts didn't had a "we sell the other keys 2 years later too).
Other keys from that 7,2k recieved HRK and got sold there too (and got revoked).
He wanted to replace the revoked keys and wrote he have contacted steam and will send keys as soon as he get/can activate them.
Till that point sounded all as a OK handling from my point of view.
If it is true, i can fully understand that a dev revoke (deactive) the keys that he never got money for to prevent misuse of them.
Bad is for sure to do it first around 2 years ago. He wrote that he had/have cancer , chemo therapy and such stuff -if that is true can none of us say-.
[A few screenshot examples are below]
Evono you write him "there is no hate". Looks strange with all the messages above that he recieved.
Don't get me wrong, i understand that people want the game back and aren't happy but to talk/write to someone in such a way as it is clear to see in the examples (only from site 5 [i made no screenshots from 1-4 because that few examples show enough] -there were, at least, 15 sites that i didn't have seen-) is far from ok or understandable for such a little thing.
If someone would call me bastard he would have a lifetime ban in all my games and not a friendly answer as he tried it (and it was the 3rd or 4th friendly answer to that person).
IG say they bought all of the 10k keys and it wasn't legal/correct to revoke them. [In such a case i think that IG say the truths/understand the contracts better]
But if the one or other site say now the truths, if one of them don't understood their contract or whatever, all that isn't my focus.
My focus is the clear sign from him to handle it and tried to be friendly and people insulted him constantly and gave him/and IG no time to handle/sort the stuff.
And then whine around when they got banned and he closed the discussion after such a insulting storm.
When i see such stuff i feel myself everytime in seconds as i am very normal :-D
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Well, thank you for pointing that out. The amount of abuse that guy was getting was absurd. People reacting like the dev killed their family member or something. The person that was responding (I assume whoever made the sticky announcement and deleted/closed stuff was someone else because of the different writing and tone) was answering politely but no matter what they said these people would just keep at it, getting worse with every response. That one guy even made him death threats, what the heck. That ban in particular was definitely justified.
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Yes, the reactions were crazy for a few cents game.
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Eco. I was following the thread and had about the same thoughts as you Masafor.
I contacted the dev on the thread "Key Redemption" and after a polite simple private talk I've got a replacement key.
He even apologized about the toxicity I had to witness on the other discussions.
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Thanks for looking into matters and doing some actual legwork for us outside observers.
It seems things aren't nearly as black and white as OP made it out to be.
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You know what's a career ending move ?
Pissing off Valve enough to get them kick you off Steam.
You know what's likely to get Valve that mad ?
Revoking legitimately purchased keys. And I'm going to need more than the word of a single developer to convince me that they keys aren't legitimate. Not when IG have been an authorised key seller for games for so long. Especially not one that's been deleting posts complaining about them.
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You don't need to trust the dev's word but to talk/write with him must be possible in a civilized manner.
If he deletes insults then is it absolutly his right to do that. I had done it much earlier as he done it and i had banned different writers much earlier too.
If he answers he will replace the keys, then give him at least a few days to get the keys from steam and if that promise will not be holded then report him for a scam move or whatever.
I see in such stuff first a mistake by the Dev, the publisher or the seller/store. Because i don't know the contracts i let them sort it out and write tmy problem to IG and to the dev.
I needed to do this 1x in the past. The IG support reacted in under 24h and wrote me that they check the case and contact the dev.
Till they wrote me, 2-3 days later, again i was able to contact the dev, with a forum discussion and a email, and he promised to replace the key what he done a few hours later.
Problem solved.
And in the end was it a problem of understanding the contract because the dev was from the CIS region and his english maybe not so good as needed in this case. Sure his failure and work for me and other ones but nothing that needed to interact harsh or bring a armageddon over that dev, publisher, store, steam or whichever :-D
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Deleting insults is fine. Deleting the entire thread of complaints looks like the developer is trying to hide them.
And then there is this line from SRM Games:
We have tried to calm the crowd down to the disadvantage of our health and further loss of potential income by promising to try to get Steam keys for those who lost access to Pit Blocks 3D due to the ban.
Offering to replace keys for people who thought they had bought them legitimately is a "loss of potential income". A line like that makes me thing the developers were expecting people to repurchase their game instead of getting angry.
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https://steamcommunity.com/app/792000/discussions/0/2265815747940539486/?ctp=4
I still see the discussion, so i am forced to think the OP got banned from the discussion.
And i see complains about the revoked keys. In a civilized manner. So it don't look for me as the dev hide something.
Its easy from his point of view are all above the paid 2,8k keys, keys that he don't got paid for and each one that get now a replacement key from him is a loss because he give his game for free. And sure is that a loss of potential income.
[Maybe he don't understood the IG contract fully and his point of view is wrong]
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I don't see it, and I've never posted there. It might just be sitting in your cache.
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Good job you don't represent valve, then. Your phrasing of needing 'more than the word of a single developer' is weird, because it's not like other developers are going to know the intimate affairs of unrelated people/groups are they? You're blindly giving the benefit of the doubt to IG and directing all fault at the dev, but it seems you're only basing this on frustration and perhaps that other purchases from IG haven't been revoked. While a customer may have 'legitimately purchased' a key, the storefront they purchased from may not have legitimately acquired said key.
IndieGala is not immune to error, or to bad decision. It's not unusual for a developer to start locking down their forum when the level of hostility becomes so disproportionate that they are unable to keep up. I don't see, removing 'review bomb' entries as bad either. Consider for just the briefest of moments that the dev isn't actually in the wrong, and that the influx of negative reviews are very likely to be nothing but "dev iz scam, boycoted", then their reaction would be entirely justified.
I mean, it sucks for the people who got their keys revoked, and a certain degree of reaction is to be expected, but if ithat anger misdirected or disproportionate, then we should also expect an undeserving recipient to squash any genuine bad faith actions, y'know? Yes, this should be between the dev (or an appropriate Valve rep) and the storefronts to settle things, but that's just the problem here. All of your anger is directed at the target you're most able to hurt for personal catharsis, not out of reasonable assurance they're actually the ones at fault. I sympathise with the frustration, but blindly lashing out at a single aspect of this while assuming total innocence on the parts of the other parties just doesn't come across as exactly lucid, to me.
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it's not like other developers are going to know the intimate affairs of unrelated people/groups are they?
No. But they would know how IG has treated them. Get a few developers complaining about how IG treated each of them and then IG will start looking dodgy. IG have been selling keys since 2011. Where are the other complaining developers ?
IG have built trust with me over years. I didn't know anything about SRM games until this thread.
Yes, this should be between the dev (or an appropriate Valve rep) and the storefronts to settle things, but that's just the problem here
Agreed. That's probably what's going to happen. But I'm predicting that Valve will not look favourably on SRM games once they figure out what's happened here.
Consider that there is a publisher sitting between SRM games and IG here. SRM Games gave the keys to that publisher, who then passed them to IG. Why aren't SRM Games accusing that publisher of being dodgy here ?
How could IG be up to something dodgy without the publisher being involved ?
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That would only be applicable if IG were in fact shady. Given the nature of how the keys are bought and sold prior to consumer purchase, it's entirely possible for any link in that chain being genuinely mistaken and without ill intent, for a batch of keys to be considered illegitimate. The developer is small-time at best, and revoking keys for what little userbase they have is against their interests, so it is likely that they genuinely believed whatever key-tracking metric they were using was accurate, and they issued the revoke on the key entries that hadn't been properly reported as purchased/sold. Again, my point is that the anger here is being directed specifically at one individual not out of fact, but frustration. IG and Valve can happily disregard you because they're big, powerful and faceless. So you're subsequently lashing out at the only part of the chain that has something to actually lose, and you can see it having an effect. but is not necessarily the party at fault. I'm just a random member of this forum to you, so obviously my words don't hold much sway, but the mockery and anger in this thread seem to denote a mentality of "they're obviously wrong, because they're actually reacting / banning", which is more just because the other parties involved (who can actually more reliably resolve this, and seem just as likely to be at fault) simply don't squirm the same way when yelled at.
It's catharsis, not fact-based retribution.
I mean, there have been occasional complaints about revoked keys sold in the type of filler bundles that places like IG and groupees sell. A trust built out of "I haven't had any problems with them" is fine, but that kind of trust is fickle, and it ends the moment you do have a problem with them. For example, all the people that claim G2A is totally fine because they personally haven't had any issues, despite the disproportionaly large number of people who have had issues. I for instance have never had a problem with GMG but many people have been furious at them for revoked keys and the like. Yes, IG is a legitimate reseller just like GMG, and isn't really comparable to the grey market of G2A, but it doesn't mean they're immune to the revocation issues, especially not when you realise how much more often it seems to happen with the lower quality budget bundles/keys (which IndieGala seems to lean into).
I'm not even saying people are wrong to be frustrated or angry. We can scoff at the quality of the game / bundles all we like, but at the end of the day it's still money people paid for a game they no longer have, through no fault of their own. But similarly, the dev isn't wrong to remove votebomb reviews, or close senselessly venomous or threatening threads, and if they did in fact revoke keys that weren't reported/marked appropriately in the reseller side of things, then the revoking makes sense. Giving every link in the chain a free pass while heaping the anger on an individual without anything more than a gut feeling to back it up? That just going off half-cocked, imo.
edit : Going by a comment posted by Alpha2749 a little further down the page. It seems that keys for the game were also doing the rounds in the 'hot random keys' circuit, of which G2A is known to own a devoted HRK site. I feel its safe to extrapolate that a solid number of keys would have in fact been acquired outside of legitimate channels. Perhaps not IG, but it would at least explain what drew attention and caused the revocation of improperly reported keys / sales.
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that's quite a loss.
oh wait, it was on my ignore list already anyway.
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I think they may have created a topic to give keys to affected players: https://steamcommunity.com/app/792000/discussions/0/2265815747942837726/
Edit: From what I can tell though, the keys being given out are 'PB3D for beta testing' keys (according to the dev these are no different to the full game).
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damn, now i won't be able to play this masterpiece i was saving for october 2039.
i may even go bankrupt because i can't idle the cards he was going to add.
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SRM Games did ban an entire discussion about the revoked keys ( with 300+ comments )
Said all the time Indiegala is at fault but infact indiegala said he lies.
he banned everyone discussing this topic and also no keys will be delivered he literarily and infact scammed everyone out of their keys.
The now Removed topic
Luckily was MOSTLY archived here.
https://justpaste.it/3zaaa
You can clearly see hes saying all the time indiegala is at fault and he will deliver keys.
Result as you see here https://steamcommunity.com/app/792000/discussions/0/
its gone and most of these People got perm banned.
also they are threating now Lawsuits against players that got banned ( nearly everyone there )
https://imgur.com/a/8z0xPH4
TL;DR
Dev revoked thousands of keys.claimed they are unused
then claimed Indie gala took them Illegaly.
Then claimed we get new keys.
Then banned everyone and threatens players.
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