I'm quite sure both Intel and AMD use thermal sensors integrated into the CPU die itself so they both should be direct contact sensors.
It's still possible AMD-s thermal measurement is not so accurate as Intel's, especially for temperatures measured while idle. Also, very often the software used to display the values does not support AMD perfectly. You should get the most accurate readings with AMD Overdrive.
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Infact I wanted to try this "AMD Overdrive" program but wanted to know if it works for as "MSI AFTERBURNER"? In that while the game you see the results in the game? (Is compatible with GPU NVIDIA this program amd overdrive?)
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AMD CPU's are notorious for not reporting the correct temperatures.
There's no way around this through software only hardware wise (a infared temperature gun).
The only program that's been confirmed to work well about reporting the correct temperatures would be SpeedFan (free, just google it.) But again it's a hardware problem so the software that you use really isn't going to help much.
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I've heard of AMD sensors having issues reporting the LOW side of temperatures (which don't really matter ... since they're low.:X), but haven't heard anything about the high side temperatures being reported incorrectly. (unless someone is confusing core temp with cpu temp)
If it's happening at idle, too, that's easy to test. Check your temps in BIOS, then check it at idle in Windows.
Load testing is a bit more complicated though. AMD chips should throttle at 70C (unless I'm misremembering, in which case google!), so if your software says you're above that threshold and there's no throttling ... well, then the software is reading incorrectly. :X
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I'm not understanding anything because playing The Witcher 3 the temperature ranges from 47 ° to 62 ° degrees (sometimes even at 69 ° degrees), many have said that temperatures are not right and so do not know if the CPU temperature is real or not. (I say the 62-69 degrees)
My CPU is resistant up to 61 ° degrees, and then I worried that arrived up to 69 degrees, but we're at the same point, I do not know if it's real or not those degrees, so I would like to know what a program where He tells me EXACTLY degrees while playing.
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If you're comfortable (meaning you won't be stalking me and sending me hate mail later) with stress testing your CPU, I'd recommend downloading Prime95 - the x86 or x64 depending on your operating system - and running that while also checking CPU-Z and RealTemp, If your temps go over 70C, but you don't see your CPU throttling down, then your temps are being misread by the software.
Be careful stress testing, however. If your temps are accurate and it's a cooling issue (rather than a software issue), I don't want you burning up your CPU. :X
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Your parts are fine up to 90c.
If their getting above 80c thats time to repaste and clean your case, If their above 90c turn that shit off because you're going to melt it or at the very least burn it out.
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Neither manufacturers' thermal sensors are accurate. I regularly have my i5 report temperatures lower than room temperature on low utilisation. My old AMD officially throttled at 65 degrees, but it only started doing it over 80.
That said though, the FX chips, especially the octa-core one* generates a lot of heat and has a very low max temperature point (a common problem with AMD CPUs, sadly, for quite a while). This is why I suggest at least one of the Cooler Master 212 EVO alternatives (Raijintek Themis or Cryorig H7) for them, because IMO that is the bare minimum to keep an AMD desktop chip at a reasonable temperature range.
*Yes, I know, it is actually 4 physical cores with virtual cores, but AMD cannot say hyper-threaded, so they just list the logical core numbers as official.
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I have it that CPU Cooler "Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO" but playing The Witcher 3 the temperature is 52° - 62° degrees (max temp 69°) (i don't know is true temperature i use MSI AFTERBURNER for monitoring).
I have FX 8350 BLACK EDITION and the max temp is 61°. (see on amd site)
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Is your case properly ventilated? Do you have one or two fans on the CPU cooler itself? What thermal paste did you use? These can all affect the temperature, sometimes in the magnitude of 10 degrees difference, or even more. For example, on my current PC, the CPU overclocked to 4.0 GHZ started thermal throttling with a stress test, reaching 100 degrees eventually. After adding the second fan on the CPU cooler and an intake fan for it on the top of the case, the same test on the same speed resulted in a 88-89 °C maximum temperature.
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Then I made a lousy design to make you understand better, the CPU cooler is positioned horizontally (because reading some articles said for AMD CPU you're forced to install it horizontally) and its fan "look" of the GPU, then the 2 holes of the designer there is nothing, and arrow (done well) is another fan that is the case.
Hope you have understood.
I use it the Thermal paste the cooler cpu box, no i don't have cpu overclocked.
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Oh yes, the Cooler Master coolers and AM/FM sockets. Forgot that. (This is why I recommend alternatives, they don't have this fucked up design.)
In this case you need the fan on the CPU cooler to be positioned at the bottom, blowing air up, with possibly a fan on the case's top blowing the air up again. It is also worth trying to experiment with a fan at the back of the case blowing cool air inside to the CPU cooler tower. You need one intake for the CPU cooler from somewhere to be more efficient.
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Obviously the cold air of the cpu cooler throws in front of the GPU and the hot air is thrown out of the "2 holes" in fact putting your hand there you feel the heat.
But are still doubtful, temperature that gives me MSI Afterburner if they are true or false, as I said above the maximum temperature of 8350 ° is 61 degrees, since playing The Witcher 3 the temperatures tells me MSI Afterburner is 62 ° - 69 ° degrees (for a few times), most of the grades is 47 ° - 55 °, then temperatures are false?
And to see actual temperatures so as not to reach 61 degrees?
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AMD suggest 61 °C as max, but their CPUs can take up to 80 easily. 60 is the point where if you keep it there constantly, it may shorten the chip's lifetime.
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Anyway 61°-62°-65°-69° degrees etc..... happens only for few seconds, i don't worry?
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What program would you recommend me to monitor CPU temperature (AMD FX) real, while playing?
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Core Temp, Real Temp… all report from the same sensor, so there is no difference. I personally use Core Temp now (used HwInfo before that) and play in windowed mode, but not to see the temperatures but the utilisation. The only question of a sensor software is which one shows the temps in a way that is comfortable and easy for you to use.
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So there are programs that can tell an exact temperature of the CPU? :/
I see some videos now for AMD OVERDRIVE but no see temperature CPU there. :/
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No programs can tell the exact temperature of a CPU. All of them display the same data they get from the CPU's sensor. That sensor itself is often inaccurate. If you want to get the real temperature of a CPU, get a laser-sighted infrared sensor and point it at the chip itself. :)
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If MSI Afterburner says 65 ° - 69 ° degrees, the actual temperature is below those degrees?
For example: 69 ° degrees is 55 °, 65 ° degrees is 49 ° etc ....
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On AMD chips, usually yes. But each and every CPU's sensor may have different levels of inaccuracy. Generally unless the PC shuts down from thermal throttle, you are good. Keep in mind that a good dusting from time to time can also work wonders for temperatures.
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"Generally unless the PC shuts down from thermal throttle", what u mean?
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One of the reasons CPUs have now thermal sensors is to make sure the motherboard can shut it down if it overheats. It is a two-step process: first the clock frequency of the CPU will be dropped, if it is applicable, so it generates less heat. If it continues to get hotter, at a certain point it shuts down completely. This way the chip won't fry and at worst case you need to get a new cooling (or just clean the one you have) instead of buying a new processor.
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Thanks for the explanations you have given me, if you were in my shoes, you preoccuperesti the degrees I have with The Witcher 3? Is worrying? (Even though my CPU has as resistance 61 degrees?)
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Honest answer? Yes, I would. If gaming pushes it over 60 degrees, I would start to rethink my case fan configuration or open the case (and maybe even use a desk fan to push cool air on the system).
I am saying this because this is precisely what I did with my old Phenom II X4 965 CPU when I started to get temps like yours. In the end I bought two new case fans and dropped its clock rate from 3.3 GHz to 3.0 GHz, and it was good again.
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To me have told me that removes the side of the case is very dangerous. :/
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It is both true and not. If you open up the case, it stops being a Faraday cage, so it can be vulnerable to electric surges. On the other hand, opening up a case where the air flow is not enough to keep the parts cool is an answer to let it dissipate its heat better. Getting case fans or re-arranging them in a more efficient manner is the best solution, since a constant air flow cools better than an open case, but this also requires enough room within the case. (This is why modular power supplies and cases with cable management space in the back are so good, even for budget builds: they can help the cooling more than a 200 mm case fan.)
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Sorry this i don't understand " If you open up the case, it stops being a Faraday cage, so it can be vulnerable to electric surges." what do you mean? When the case is opened?
Could you give me some pictures of this fans who make it cold?
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A Faraday cage is a closed metal box that acts as a perfect electrical insulation, since all electrons are migrating to the outer side of the cage. This is a good example of it showing how the electric current cannot touch anything inside: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zi4kXgDBFhw
But it only works as long as it is closed on all sides. If you open up a computer case, it will stop being a Faraday cage. On the other hand, nowadays this is largely unneeded, hence why these things can exist: http://www.ebay.com/bhp/open-computer-case
To give advice on your PC, I'd need a picture of its internals to see how the cooling works now.
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Oooh yeah i forgot to say you my case is this:
Case: Itek - Case DEFENDER - Gaming Middle Tower
This is my all specs:
SO: Windows 10 64-Bit
Case: Itek - Case DEFENDER - Gaming Middle Tower
CPU: AMD X8 FX 8350 Black Edition 4.0 GHz
MotherBoard : ASROCK 970 Extreme 3 R2.0 || Socket: AM3+
GPU: NVIDIA GTX 970 4 GB VRAM GEFORCE GIGABYTE GDDR5 MINI-ITX Compatible Card Size
SSD: Kingston 120 GB SATA3 || Letture sequenziali 2: SATA Rev. 3.0 fino a: 450MB/s || Scritture sequenziali2: SATA Rev. 3.0 fino a: 450MB/s V
RAM: 8GB DDR3 HYPERX CORSAIR VENGEANCE 1600Mhz (Blue)
Power Supply: iTek mPower 820W Modulare
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper TX3 EVO
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Oh gods, Italian PC components… they are usually on par with the cheap Chinese knock-off stuff. No wonder they don't usually dare to sell them anywhere outside Italy (and because nobody else would touch them).
(I'm partly surprised that an FX-8350 and GTX 970 combination didn't blow your power supply up yet…)
At least the basic config of the computer case is usable. It takes some real ingenuity to make such a big case and only allow 12 cm fans on it though. (Most cases in this size even let you install 20 cm fans…)
Any way… Buy two 12 cm fans, possibly costing over 10 Euro each, and put them on top. The next steps will be a little strange, but since you have an EVO 212 on an AM3+ socket, there isn't much else to think of, unless you want to fry your graphics card.
Check the fan on the CPU cooler. Make sure it is at the bottom and blowing air upwards.
Remove the fan on the back of the case and turn it around, so it blows air inside the case (it should blow air right on the CPU cooler, if I see it right).
Face the fans you will install on top to blow air out of the case.
The two fans in front should suck air inside the case, so don't touch them.
Alternate method: Ditch the 212 EVO and get a Cryorig H7. As this video shows, it can be installed normally:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jff3e1XgT0
With this, you need to emulate the setup on the video: CPU cooler fan on the right side, blowing air towards the rear of the case. Rear case fan blowing air out (installed "normally"). Optionally you can use a top case fan to either blow air towards the outside at the back of the case (after the CPU cooler), or to blow cool air in in front of the CPU cooler (near the front of the case). You should get mid-50s in Celsius under load with this setup even in worst case, instead of low 60s.
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"(I'm partly surprised that an FX-8350 and GTX 970 combination didn't blow your power supply up yet…)"
Because it is incompatible with an AMD FX 8350 GPU GTX 970? Why speak of the Power Supply? :/
"The next steps will be a little strange, but since you have an EVO 212 on an AM3+ socket, there isn't much else to think of, unless you want to fry your graphics card."
So I positioned him well CPU Cooler? The cold air (where the CPU cooler fan) is close to the GPU, sending cold air, and the CPU cooler hot air goes upstairs where there are the "2 holes" of the case.
EDIT: I have the same position on video the only "changes" is the position cpu cooler is horizzontally and the fan (cpu cooler) is down.
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Because it is incompatible with an AMD FX 8350 GPU GTX 970? Why speak of the Power Supply? :/
Because it is a low-grade power supply and those tend to either just stop working or in rare cases literally blow up. You are relatively safe since it is a "820 Watt" one, so it should be able to survive a few years with a single-GPU PC. (On the other hand, I would be really surprised if it could supply even 750 Watts to any system.)
So I positioned him well CPU Cooler? The cold air (where the CPU cooler fan) is close to the GPU, sending cold air, and the CPU cooler hot air goes upstairs where there are the "2 holes" of the case.
Yes, that CPU cooler fan is right then.
I have the same position on video the only "changes" is the position cpu cooler is horizzontally and the fan (cpu cooler) is down.
That position change means a lot in terms of air flow. See his temperature results: low 40s, not low 60s. :)
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Is there a way to view it directly on the PC? Anyway back to the power supply's nameplate and that says "820 WATT" so I guess that's true power.
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Is there a way to view it directly on the PC?
Uhm, huh? I don't quite understand that.
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Meaning if you can see how many WATT has the feeder using the PC.
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That doesn't mean anything. You can put any wattage on a power supply, it is another question how many can it actually supply to a PC. At any rate, your rig probably draws less than 250 Watts under load, so it should be okay for a while.
(But seriously, the next time you buy a new PC, get a decent power unit.)
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talgaby, so I was lucky to have this power supply from 820W? (Since I'm incompetent on these things have been lucky?)
Nothing will happen to my power supply then? (You scared me now....for the power supply can broken :/ )
http://www.itek.it/it/alimentatori/desktop/item/154-alimentatore-itek-mpower-820w-modulare
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That power supply will be broken. That is not a question. The question is if it breaks in 1 year or in 10 years.
The good news is that by "being broken", we mean "it will not turn on" eventually, which won't damage any parts of the computer, it will just simply die. But usually these cheap junk PSUs are thrown out a lot sooner before that, because the fan in them starts to get noisy, so people just get rid of it when they are fed up with the constant whirring.
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So if the power supply breaks down the PC will not turn on and I will not ruin the other type GPU components, CPU and motherboard?
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OK, talgaby, i go on BIOS:
OC MODE: Manual Mode
CPU CONFIGURATION
Overcloacked Mode: Auto
Spread Spectrum: Auto
CPU Active Core Control: All Cores
AMD TURBO CORE TECHONOLOGY: Auto
Curent APM Status: Enabled
AMD Application Power Management: Auto
Processor Maximum Frequency: 6300 MHz
North Bridge Maximum Frequency: 6200 MHz
Multiplier/Voltange Change: Auto
HT Bus Speed: Auto
HT Buss Width: 16 Bit
VOLTAGE CONFIGURATION
DRAM Voltage 1.500v
CPU Voltage OFFSET: +50mV
NB Voltage: 1.10v
HT Voltage: 1.215v
CPU VDDA Voltage 2.56v
PCIE VDDA 1.81v
SB Voltage: 1.10v
MAIN CONFIGURATION (i dont remember name there see temperature M/B e CPU and there is 59° degrees!!!!)
CPU Temperature: 59.0 °C
M/B Temperature: 34.0 °C
CPU Fan 1 Speed: 1387 RPM
CPU Fan 2 Speed: N/A
Chassis Fan 1 Speed: 2556 RPM
Chassis Fan 2 Speed: N/A
Power Fan Speed: N/A
Vcore: +1,408v
+12.000v :+12.038v
+5.00v :+5.184v
- 3.30v :+3.328v
CPU Fan 1 & 2 Settings: Automatic Mode
Target CPU Temperature: 50°C/122°F
Target Fan Speed: Level 5
Chassis Fan 1 Setting: Automatic
Target CPU Temperature: 50°C/122°F
Target Fan Speed: Level 5
Over Temperature Protection: Enabled
Dehumidifier Function: Disabled
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VOLTAGE CONFIGURATION -> CPU Offset -> Set it to -50 mV first. Boot up the PC, start up something demanding, for example open three Twitch live streams or a relatively demanding game like your Witcher 3. Fiddle around for 2-3 minutes.
If you don't experience graphical or sound glitches, then go back to the BIO and set it to -100mV. Repeat.
Repeat until you experience issues under CPU load. Usually you will get sound stutters, video artifacts, and maybe even a system crash. When you reach this point, go back to BIOS and use the latest setting where it worked.
It should be possible to reach -200 mV without anything bad.
Next, you can also downclock a little.
CPU CONFIGURATION -> Overcloacked Mode -> Manual.
Set the CPU multiplier 2 lower than the current one. If it is 40×, set it to 38×. If we take that 40× as a base, you can go as low as 35× without any noticeable performance impact. Any lower would slow the system down.
The combination of this two should lower the CPU power consumption by quite a few Watts, resulting in lesser heat generation.
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"Fiddle" u think play for 3-4 minutes? A system crash if it happens, something serious happens to the other components? (They are very ignorant on the subject)
For the "CONFIGURATION CPU" you say this string "Multiplier/Voltange Change: Auto"? I have to get up to that value?
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Yes, play around.
No, if a crash happens, then you know that the CPU is not getting enough power now to do its job. Simple go to a higher voltage again and it will be good.
(It is incredibly difficult to actually kill a hardware component just by messing in the BIOS.)
Yes, change that Multiplier/Voltange Change: Auto to Manual. This should open Voltage and Frequency. Change those to lower values.
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Start with 38. Hopefully it will be enough for a decent temperature.
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Then I did a lot of things and I will list (from images):
1) I disabled BIOS, the AMD Turbo and seems improved through "MSI AFTERBURNER" if you look from the game for 30-40 minutes, I was around 45 ° - 49 ° degrees, look the first image. (never past 50 ° degrees) .
2) I went into the BIOS, and doing "Overclock Mode Manual" I received these two options "CPU FREQUENCY (MHz) 200" and "PCIE Frequency (MHz) 100" and I'm stuck and I have not touched anything.
3) Always going to the BIOS, I went to "Multiplier / Voltage" and I have come these (I obviously stuck here too):
CPU NB Voltage: 1.200v
CPU Frequency Multiplier: x20 4000MHz
CPU Voltage: 1.3500v
NB Frequency Multiplier: x11.0 2200MHz
4) I installed "AMD Overdrive" and went on "State CPU" and I saw that in the thermal margin is "48.2 ° C" I did one of the results screenshots (see the second image)
5) Always with "AMD OVERDRIVE" There is no more results, and there is a result called "TMPIN1" that's up to 56.7 ° C that I honestly do not know what is. (See third picture)
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Yeah, these are nice values.
You can do a little better with these:
CPU Frequency Multiplier: x20 4000MHz -> x18 3600 MHz
(Not that much needed, but it won't hurt you too much.)
CPU Voltage: 1.3500v -> 1.2000v
(If you experience instability, graphical glitches, and similar, raise it back to 1.2500v.)
The combination of these two will drop your CPU wattage down a bit, resulting in less heat.
Still, a 12cm fan for the top of the case won't hurt in the long run. :D
Edit: Also, try this:
PCIE Frequency (MHz) 100 -> 105
This will force all components in your PC to be 5% faster, including the GPU. It is not too much of a raise to stress anything, but enough to make the PC run a little closer to optimal. (You can try to experiment with other values, you should be good up to 120 or so, but unless you know what you are doing… well, it is not always a good idea. :))
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Talgaby u can explain what mean "TMPIN1"? I worry for that 58 °C. :/
And i fear that 45° Degrees on The Witcher 3 (very cool temperature) is fake MSI AFTERBURNER :/, but it is normal that even if it is 45 degrees by touching the PC case where there is the CPU is hot enough?
Sorry for much questions.
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Yes, 40+ degrees is hot. If it would be 60+, it would be a burning feeling.
TMPIN1 is in theory "CPU temp". Keep in mind that
a) CPU temperature sensors are always off
b) If one sensor on an AMD board reports something that is nowhere near the other values, it is always a "fake" report. (Bad sensor or no actual sensor there at all.)
On my old AMD rig, I had a sensor that perpetually reported temperatures in the 95-110°C territory, even with cold boot. It was just a fake value.
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talgaby, so I do not pay attention on the value of "TMPIN1", saying false values?
However seeing the results (of the last two screenshots) have good results?
When I open the game always type HwuMonitor programs, MSI Afterburner and now AMD Overdrive, which I have to agree among the three programs?
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Good! I have 2 question:
1) The value you give me "CPU Frequency Multiplier: x20 4000MHz -> x18 3600 MHz" & "CPU Voltage: 1.3500v -> 1.2000v", I have to put them one by one or do I have to change together?
2) I asked the same question over which program should I pay attention? (HWU MONITOR, AMD OVERDRIVE or MSI AFTERBURNER?)
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Preferably together.
Doesn't matter which, they all display the information based on the same source.
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talgaby you really help me much!
But now I'm worried about what you told me yesterday on the Power Supply. :/ (if is good for my components have ALL Watts)
I search for see the "Power Consumption (WATTS)" for "ASROCK 970 Extreme3 R2.0 || Socket: AM3+" but ALL site i saw don't say the Power Consumption, you can help me?
Same with my case PC "Itek - Case DEFENDER - Gaming Middle Tower" i don't know the power consumption.
I see for this only:
PSU: iTek mPower 820W Modulare
CPU: AMD FX 8350 || 125 W
GPU: NVIDIA GTX 970 4 GB VRAM GEFORCE GIGABYTE GDDR5 MINI-ITX || 400W(with one 8-pin external power connectors)
CPU Cooler: 2.88W - 1.8W (EU Version) || This i don't understand is this 1.8W or 180w
MoBa: ???
Case PC: ???
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Your maximum load will always be under 400 Watts, and during gaming, in the low 300s. This is all you need to know.
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You speak the video card when running? And that the Watts values are lowered when in operation?
So my PSU good for my components and then holds it all? ( I want your opinion)
Excuse me for having taken a LONG time, but I'm very insecure when it comes to PC.
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Yes, I see that. :P
PCs never draw the maximum amount of power normally, just under stress tests.
That number I gave is the likely energy consumption of your entire PC, not just the GPU.
Your PSU will hold, but it is still a junk PSU. When you have enough money to get a new one, do so.
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For now, honestly speaking I have no money to spend, if you tell me that the PSU holds all that hassle for now I hold this to me, obvious that when put most powerful components will make a new much more powerful PSU of this. :D
If my current PSU holds all my components, I keep this for now.
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talgaby, however, should we make those changes to the BIOS as you said, or stay that way (since you said you are good results)?
Obviously I would like to turn down at least 5-10 degrees, that would be great.
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(There is an Edit button. :))
Drop the CPU voltage then. AMD FX chips can take lower than 1.35 Volt. If you can reach 1.20-1.25 Volts without any system instability, that would help. If you can live with 3.6 GHz (you should), it helps as well.
So yes, make those changes. Temp should drop a few degrees if you do so.
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OK, i try that, i go change the CPU Voltage only, i hope the decrease 5 or 10 degrees is very wonderful.
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5 would be very hopeful, think in 2-3. To drop 10 degrees, you most likely need to downclock the CPU to 3.0 GHz or lower.
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According to you (honestly) should be removed / decrease from 4.0 GHz to 3.6 GHz for a drop of 2-3 degrees? :/
EDIT: I need modify too the "CPU Frequency Multiplier: x20 4000MHz -> x18 3600 MHz"? Or i don't?
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Yep. Fine-tuning a PC to need temperature and performance requirements is a long process and needs a ton of testing. Since I am sitting in another country, instructing you in text, the best I can do is give the safest possible advice on all fronts. 2-3 degrees can mean a lot, when you are in the 40-60 degrees range.
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No, because by lowering from 4.0 GHz to 3.6 GHz, I fear that in the future put games with requirements that ask 4 GHz, and spending months or years, I forget that the processor is 3.6 GHz. :/
I need modify too the "CPU Frequency Multiplier: x20 4000MHz -> x18 3600 MHz"? Or i don't?
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Yes, do it, and check the temps.
(By the way, CPU is not too important if you just play games. I can play at home when I visit my parents, and they have a dual-core 1.4 GHz PC there.)
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talgaby, however, prior to making these changes I would like to do a test, without changing anything, and try to play type 2 and a half hours, and see what results me without these modifications. (I will return home Friday and I can do the tests)
Friday will update with more screenshots for you to see results, so could you tell me if the temperatures are good or need some modification.
I will write again in this topic so you'll get a notification in the messages.
Thank you very much for your BIG help and patience. :)
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I wanted to ask you another question that I forgot to tell you, but do you think it is normal that in Idle temperature is 25 ° -35 ° and playing yesterday in The Witcher 3, the temperature was 45 degrees? It's possible? It seems to me very strange though.
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Thank you talgaby again, Friday I will make screenshots of the results, without changing anything, so can you tell me whether it makes sense to change, or remain as it is.
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Then I did the test with results by playing Final Fantasy Lightning Returns (first image) & Batman Arkham Knight (second image), I have not changed any values in the BIOS, talgaby, they have good results? (Honestly thermal margin does not understand what is really).
Final Fantasy Lightning Returns
With MSI AFTERBURNER say "CPU: 32°C"
With AMD OVERDRIVE say "38.2 °C"
Batman Arkham Knight
With MSI AFTERBURNER say "CPU: 45°C"
With AMD OVERDRIVE say "CPU: 49.5°C"
Is good?
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So it goes well without the changes you suggested in the BIOS?
(May you explain what the thermal margin?)
Anyway thank you for the GREAT help. :)
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"Thermal Margin indicates how far the current operating temperature is below the
maximum operating temperature of the processor."
In short, how far away you are from being in danger.
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If I understand correctly, the image that I made 49 degrees indicates the current temperature or indicates there is 49 degrees for the "danger" maximum temperature?
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Yep for? xD
"the image that I made 49 degrees indicates the current temperature"
or
"indicates there is 49 degrees for the "danger" maximum temperature?"
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The latter. It means "you are this far away from being too hot".
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But it seems a little strange (?), that is with Batman Arkham Knight (crappy port and uses a lot of resources), is for example 35 ° or 40 ° degrees? (That is, I hope it is really so because it is good xD)
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Not strange if you know how games work. Arkham Knight was a crappy port because the graphical engine was not optimised to utilise the graphics card efficiently. This is why it runs so bad.
But those are things calculated by the GPU. The CPU normally handles the scripts, the "rules" of the game: what the player does, what the AI does, when to start cut-scenes, what happens if player presses the action button, that sort of thing. While these can be demanding tasks, modern CPUs can take them easily.
Short version: modern games use a lot of GPU, but it is rare for them to need more than just a little of the CPU. This is why AMD CPUs are more than adequate if you mostly just play on PC.
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Thanks for the explanation and for the help, to have another confirmation from you (and really I'll end with this discussion xD) have good results so i no worry?
That's why the GPU works harder in the game, and the CPU less.
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Thank you very much talgaby, i don't worry so! Great news :D
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talgaby, today with "HWU Monitor" made me a strange thing, then after I play with "Dragon Ball XenoVerse" I went to see the results of "HWU Monitor", and say "Maximum CPU temperature value: 225 °F" ( which it is impossible given that touching the case where the CPU was cold), because it gave me the result? (And 'quite false as a result?)
I had also "AMD Overdrive" and "MSI AFTERBURNER" open, but they would give me more credible results, on "AMD Overdrive" was giving me between 47-54 ° C degrees, and "MSI AFTERBURNER" gave me as a maximum 47 ° degrees.
I have to ignore the result of "HWU Monitor" because it is false?
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225 °F is over 100 °C. Your CPU would have been destroyed at that temperature. Since it is not the case, you can disregard it and consider that 47 the more accurate result.
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So i'm right that "HWMonitor" give me fake results? (is better i uninstall that program?)
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Probably yes, just uninstall it. You don't need more than one monitoring program anyway.
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I search on Google (look yourself) much people have the same temperature 255°C so i think this program is very bad, so i use it only "MSI AFTERBURNER" and "AMD OVERDRIVE", infact when i see that temperature I realized that it was high TOO such as temperature, and touching the PC case (where the CPU) was quite cold.
Then I went to check on "MSI AFTERBURNER" and said that as the maximum was "47 degrees", and "AMD Overdrive" was currently "46-57 degrees."
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talgaby, I'm sorry for the trouble, but I wanted to ask you another question, a person seeing this, told me that the motherboard (TMPIN1) is too high, and the value (degrees) must be less than the "CPU Cores", but it's true?
I could say a bullshit, but it's not like normal temperatures, as the motherboard "used" almost all PC components?
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It is true.
But it is less. Don't forget that you are seeing values that say how high you are from danger. So a larger value there means the temperature is lower. So what he said is right, but you also have a lower temp on that sensor than on the CPU. :)
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So in short, I have to be quiet, or I have to worry now for the temperature of the motherboard? :/
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Thank you AGAIN and AGAIN talgaby, I learned something else (I hope I'm right), that those who have the socket AM3 + is normal that the temperature of the motherboard's high of 5 ° or 10 ° degrees to the CPU (Cores).
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So it is dangerous to keep it open houses? Or is it not necessary to have everything covered?
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It is not necessary nowadays. A closed case is used because
a) A closed environment can result in better air flow
b) It gathers less dust
c) It acts as noise shield against the louder case fans
Most motherboards and power supplies now have simple surge protection to make sure your PC won't get fried, this is why fully open cases exist, or why some people have no cases but flat test beds.
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Thanks for the explanation, however, I gave you the name of my cases, though most while I was playing The Witcher 3 degrees ranging from 45 ° - 55 ° degrees, then the last mission of the game, I do not know why he was at 69 ° degrees.
My only fear is what you told me, that I should worry about. :/
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had open case 1y no problem just blow out dust from time to time
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yeah i did like whole 1 year no problem
did u install 2 more fan on top
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Then that is problem 2 fans cant push cold air in because only one draws out so hot air circulates in case
you need one more fan on top its only few € and u will have better airflow
Your case is rly closed behind so u need that fan or fans on top
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Those temps with that cooler are totally expected and mostly fine (69°C is not fine, that CPU should thermal-throttle at 70°C).
The FX-8xxx series are quite hard to keep at low temps (<60°C), compiling stuff (all 8 cores at 100% usage) for 5~6 or more minutes my CPU eventually reached 70°C and throttled down for a few secs.
The choice was to either go for Noctua's 90€ coolers OR disable turbo-core (which btw is quite overrated*) and keep my Cryorig H7. Now, no matter how much I stress the CPU (compiling stuff on July with 35°C base temp on the room) it never goes above 59°C.
If you haven't already I suggest you to disable turbo-core and (eventually) overclock your CPU up to half of the turbo-peak value.
* Turbo-core was meant for better single-thread performance (gaming) but many game engines don't like the sudden change of frequency among cores. Intel CPUs are far better at this but a stable frequency is better even on those.
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That is BS the Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO best budget cooler
He need one more fan on top
Case is rly closed behind so need that fan or fans on top
If airflow is not good the Noctua can t help much
With more fans on top will get -10°C on cpu and gpu
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Indeed better airflow > beefy coolers.
Btw, it's ages that experts moved suggestions from the noisy 212 EVO to the Cryorig H7, 1~2°C less for the same price (and far less noise)
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I have FX8320 with Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO and i just change my thermal paste one week ago and i got max temp 49°C on high demand games
Do u have good airflow case?
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The 8320 is clocked at 3.5 GHz (if I'm not wrong) thus lower temps are expected since the 8350 is clocked at 3.8 GHz 4.0 GHz.
Still I'd say anything between 55~60 °C for CPU-intensive games (with turbo-core active) is fine on the 8350, ramping up to 70°C is not and there's something wrong with the airflow (unless you're stress-testing the CPU and/or compiling stuff).
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AMD does not have hyper-threading it has 8 cores (for every 2 cores it has shared resources). Hyperthreading uses one core to execute multiple tasks to create multiple pipelines with work in them. AMD FX processors have 4 modules with every module having 2 "cores" with each having their won integer execution pipeline. They don't have 8 full cores, because instruction fetching and decoding is shared, but they don't have hyperthreading. They have something between having cores and having hyperthreading.
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Yeah, it is… weird. I can never properly explain it so I try to simplify it. Maybe waaaay too much.
I hope Zen will be a little more sane of an architecture.
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I'm no expert on these things, in a nutshell is a good or a bad thing?
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In a nutshell it is good for marketing and would have been an interesting idea if literally every process run on a PC would run on several threads. In practise it is detrimental in many cases, as programs use one thread, which in AMD FX is served by these almost-cores. This is why AMD FX CPUs hava dreadful single-core performance but excel in tasks where several cores are needed at once. (Luckily, most games fall in the second category, this is why AMD is a good budget gaming choice.)
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idk about that but if if your running stock clocks on your FX you should try to undervolt, for some reason the stock voltage on most AMD FX procesors its needlessly high, mine on auto is set to 1.4 to 1.41 Volts, D:
i undervolted to 1.3 to 1.32 volts and i cant keep the same stock clocks with no problem, keep the performance and i lost like 10ºC, before that my FX8350 was no stranger to hitting 62º but since that the highest i seen it go is 55º.
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how you exactly do it is related to the motherboard, look for overclocking guides on your motherboard and do the opposite xd, instead of raising the voltage, lower it.
mine is an Asus, so i went to the overclocking settings, set it to Manual, look for the CPU voltage option, Asus here lets you chose a set value or an offset, i chose offset so i can still use AMD Cool&Quiet, set the sign of the offset to - and wrote 0.1 on the voltage of the processor.
What motherboard are you using?
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MotherBoard : ASROCK 970 Extreme3 R2.0 || Socket: AM3+
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looking at images you BIOS looks a lot like mine, so it should be more or less the same.
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Fv-J0Z_LPkY/maxresdefault.jpg
you do have the offset option, but i dont see how to set it to negative, so it lowers the voltage, hum....
download some program that will let you monitor the voltage like CPU-Z, then download OCCT to test stability, go to your bios, offset the voltage by small margins, start with 0.02, and see if you have lower it or raise it, if you are lowering it, then keep doing that, over and over again, lower a bit, test the stability, i my test i was able to lower it to 1.28 volts and still keep the performance lower than that it crashed xd
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Among these settings where I have to change? More precise?
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first what Vcore are you currently running? use CPU Z to see it, the highest value.
on the CPU Vcore settings what options do you have? On the image is set to Override settings, but is there other options?
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I don't know, i go job for 3 days and don't have the PC Gaming now.
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well once you have it, see whats the current voltage is getting it might be too high, that said i know that the FX8320 runs cooler by default than mine the FX8350 so you might not have the same experience i did, are you sure you installed the CPU Cooler right? one mistake i see some people make is keep the plastic protector on the base of the cooler, did you remove it?
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Undervolt? Nice idea, should have recommended it myself. Although I would underclock it as well a bit.
one mistake i see some people make is keep the plastic protector on the base of the cooler, did you remove it?
I think the smell alone would be enough to tell something is not right…
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I'll try to call my friend and I do put the results that we are on the BIOS.
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I'll check when I get back home, however, I think so that the plastic is removed, and in any case my CPU Cooler is placed horizontally, and the CPU cooler fan is located above the GPU. (For example the fan "look" the GPU from the bottom)
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OC MODE: Manual Mode
CPU CONFIGURATION
Overcloacked Mode: Auto
Spread Spectrum: Auto
CPU Active Core Control: All Cores
AMD TURBO CORE TECHONOLOGY: Auto
Curent APM Status: Enabled
AMD Application Power Management: Auto
Processor Maximum Frequency: 6300 MHz
North Bridge Maximum Frequency: 6200 MHz
Multiplier/Voltange Change: Auto
HT Bus Speed: Auto
HT Buss Width: 16 Bit
VOLTAGE CONFIGURATION
DRAM Voltage 1.500v
CPU Voltage OFFSET: +50mV
NB Voltage: 1.10v
HT Voltage: 1.215v
CPU VDDA Voltage 2.56v
PCIE VDDA 1.81v
SB Voltage: 1.10v
MAIN CONFIGURATION (i dont remember name there see temperature M/B e CPU and there is 59° degrees!!!!)
CPU Temperature: 59.0 °C
M/B Temperature: 34.0 °C
CPU Fan 1 Speed: 1387 RPM
CPU Fan 2 Speed: N/A
Chassis Fan 1 Speed: 2556 RPM
Chassis Fan 2 Speed: N/A
Power Fan Speed: N/A
Vcore: +1,408v
+12.000v :+12.038v
+5.00v :+5.184v
- 3.30v :+3.328v
CPU Fan 1 & 2 Settings: Automatic Mode
Target CPU Temperature: 50°C/122°F
Target Fan Speed: Level 5
Chassis Fan 1 Setting: Automatic
Target CPU Temperature: 50°C/122°F
Target Fan Speed: Level 5
Over Temperature Protection: Enabled
Dehumidifier Function: Disabled
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can you change the CPU Voltage OFFSET to a negative value?
59º on BIOS is crazy high, can you check if the CPU cooler is making contact with the CPU?
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I think yes, u say this string "CPU Voltage OFFSET:"?
For check the CPU Cooler i don't know how do that, anyway i think is normal.
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Talgaby told you to "Undervolt", quote: "VOLTAGE CONFIGURATION -> CPU Offset -> Set it to -50 mV first. Boot up the PC, start up something demanding, for example open three Twitch live streams or a relatively demanding game like your Witcher 3. Fiddle around for 2-3 minutes."
Minus, not plus, check that on your BIOS CPU Voltage OFFSET: +50mV, so you´re raising the Voltage not lowering It down or maybe It was like that since the beggining? Idk. Check the commands in BIOS for lowering or raisiong the values. One or your keyboard raises the value and the other one lower It down. This is why they shouldn´t told you to undervolt at this point because you can mess with the values. Even a experienced person can messed badly with the values on a bad day.
Everybody is giving different opinions and this might confused you. you should disable AMD TURBO CORE TECHONOLOGY first and check CPU Voltage OFFSET values first and then temps. If theyre both lower, give It a try.
God damn It! I have to go now!
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Then I did a lot of things and I will list (from images):
1) I disabled BIOS, the AMD Turbo and seems improved through "MSI AFTERBURNER" if you look from the game for 30-40 minutes, I was around 45 ° - 49 ° degrees, look the first image. (never past 50 ° degrees) .
2) I went into the BIOS, and doing "Overclock Mode Manual" I received these two options "CPU FREQUENCY (MHz) 200" and "PCIE Frequency (MHz) 100" and I'm stuck and I have not touched anything.
3) Always going to the BIOS, I went to "Multiplier / Voltage" and I have come these (I obviously stuck here too):
CPU NB Voltage: 1.200v
CPU Frequency Multiplier: x20 4000MHz
CPU Voltage: 1.3500v
NB Frequency Multiplier: x11.0 2200MHz
4) I installed "AMD Overdrive" and went on "State CPU" and I saw that in the thermal margin is "48.2 ° C" I did one of the results screenshots (see the second image)
5) Always with "AMD OVERDRIVE" There is no more results, and there is a result called "TMPIN1" that's up to 56.7 ° C that I honestly do not know what is. (See third picture)
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I don´t know If somebody else already told you this, but on your system specs you said you have a Cooler Master TX3 Evo, the TX3 is a smaller aftermarket cooler model which uses a 92mm Blade Master Fan. The Hyper 212 EVO has a bigger aluminum heatsink size, more copper heatpipes in contact with the CPU surface and includes a 120mm Blade Master fan due to It´s size = Better cooling performance.
You should confirm which aftermarket cooler model you really own first.
Your motherboard model is enough for the 8350. But like they say above, the max CPU voltage is too high for the stock frequencies. That 1.4v It´s enough for overclocking. 1.3 - 1.35v would be the safe spot as Luchingador states.
Last option with a hit in performance:
Check something like "Turbo Boost" option in BIOS and disable It. Check temps again. AMD Quote: "AMD Turbo Core technology is a performance-boosting technology that helps increase performance on the applications that need it the most". So when Turbo boost is activated the CPU will reach It´s maximum stock frequency which I think is 4.1GHZ.
If I recall (can´t confirm), when you disable "Turbo Boost" the CPU voltage goes to 1.35. If you only lose 100MHZ on the base clock is not that bad and you wont need to go through the Undervolt process. I used to have a FX-6300.
Again, check which CPU Cooler you have when you can. TX3 Evo is not Hyper 212 Evo.
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OC MODE: Manual Mode
CPU CONFIGURATION
Overcloacked Mode: Auto
Spread Spectrum: Auto
CPU Active Core Control: All Cores
AMD TURBO CORE TECHONOLOGY: Auto
Curent APM Status: Enabled
AMD Application Power Management: Auto
Processor Maximum Frequency: 6300 MHz
North Bridge Maximum Frequency: 6200 MHz
Multiplier/Voltange Change: Auto
HT Bus Speed: Auto
HT Buss Width: 16 Bit
VOLTAGE CONFIGURATION
DRAM Voltage 1.500v
CPU Voltage OFFSET: +50mV
NB Voltage: 1.10v
HT Voltage: 1.215v
CPU VDDA Voltage 2.56v
PCIE VDDA 1.81v
SB Voltage: 1.10v
MAIN CONFIGURATION (i dont remember name there see temperature M/B e CPU and there is 59° degrees!!!!)
CPU Temperature: 59.0 °C
M/B Temperature: 34.0 °C
CPU Fan 1 Speed: 1387 RPM
CPU Fan 2 Speed: N/A
Chassis Fan 1 Speed: 2556 RPM
Chassis Fan 2 Speed: N/A
Power Fan Speed: N/A
Vcore: +1,408v
+12.000v :+12.038v
+5.00v :+5.184v
- 3.30v :+3.328v
CPU Fan 1 & 2 Settings: Automatic Mode
Target CPU Temperature: 50°C/122°F
Target Fan Speed: Level 5
Chassis Fan 1 Setting: Automatic
Target CPU Temperature: 50°C/122°F
Target Fan Speed: Level 5
Over Temperature Protection: Enabled
Dehumidifier Function: Disabled
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OK, you can clearly see that CPU Vcore: is at +1,408v, you should first go to the AMD TURBO CORE TECHONOLOGY: Auto, (DISABLE that option, press F10 to save settings and enter the BIOS again). Check CPU Temperatures one more time, also check the Vcore values again (Where you had +1.4v on main config). If the values had a good impact (like 1.35v on the Vcore an better temps) go to your operating system, test your system and see If It has a huge impact on performance.
Target CPU Temperature: 50°C/122°F. You should set It at 60 degrees max and activate the alarm If not already activated. I´m guessing you dont own one of those small speakers that goes to the motherboard connector (where power on, restart, HD & power led cable connectors from the case go to the motherboard. Those speakers give you "beep" codes through the motherboard BIOS when something is wrong. In this case your motherboard is set to 50 degrees max so everytime you reach 50 you would be listening to a constant beep of the speaker because you exceed that CPU temp. Set It to 60 degrees. Get one of those speakers soon. Most of the times they can save you from faulty hardware. Time ago I bought an used Phenom II X3 720 and the alarm through the speaker saved my CPU (the stock heatsink fan died), thank to that I power down the computer fast. I was barely sleeping that day, DL something heavy.
Best thing is to undervolt as Luchingador recommends and keep Turbo Core Tech on. But first you need to be 100% sure of what you´re doing.
Gotta go!. Good luck!
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Then I did a lot of things and I will list (from images):
1) I disabled BIOS, the AMD Turbo and seems improved through "MSI AFTERBURNER" if you look from the game for 30-40 minutes, I was around 45 ° - 49 ° degrees, look the first image. (never past 50 ° degrees) .
2) I went into the BIOS, and doing "Overclock Mode Manual" I received these two options "CPU FREQUENCY (MHz) 200" and "PCIE Frequency (MHz) 100" and I'm stuck and I have not touched anything.
3) Always going to the BIOS, I went to "Multiplier / Voltage" and I have come these (I obviously stuck here too):
CPU NB Voltage: 1.200v
CPU Frequency Multiplier: x20 4000MHz
CPU Voltage: 1.3500v
NB Frequency Multiplier: x11.0 2200MHz
4) I installed "AMD Overdrive" and went on "State CPU" and I saw that in the thermal margin is "48.2 ° C" I did one of the results screenshots (see the second image)
5) Always with "AMD OVERDRIVE" There is no more results, and there is a result called "TMPIN1" that's up to 56.7 ° C that I honestly do not know what is. (See third picture)
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Hey, I´m back. Good to know your temps are better. I dont know how much performance impact you had at "gaming". You can clearly see that CPU Voltage is now 1.35v.
I had this s*** motherboard paired with the FX-6300 (Sold both parts).
http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4643#ov
In my case I was never able to "Undervolt". The motherboard didnt had that option, and that model only has a 3+1 power phase design. The Asrock you have has a 4 + 1 power phase, not that good compared to the Gigabyte 970A-UD3P which has a 8+2 power phase design, but hey at least It has a heatsink cooling those VRMs. The higher the power phase the better the overclocking possibilities and stable temperatures. Here is the Gigabyte one:
http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4717#ov
The thermal margin on AMD Overdrive shows you the degrees you have until you reach that "thermal margin", in other words It works backwards as other software. I can see you took those measurements at iddle, so at "iddle" you have 48.2 degrees left for reaching the thermal margin. Open another software and check the actual temp, add the thermal margin value and you will probably have the Maximum operating temperature which is 61°C or an estimate http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Bulldozer/AMD-FX-Series%20FX-8350.html
If you want to "Undervolt" with Turbo Core enabled, follow the advices on the other users, I won´t help you in that matter, I just wanted to see how better temps you got like this. Keep in mind the performance impact on your FPS, It may not be as much, I dont know.
Also, I don´t know how much real watts that Power Suppy you have can handle. So the less power consumption the better. I would stick with Turbo Core disabled even If I had a performance impact while gaming until I get a better Power Supply. Probably you´re ok with that one anyway, that´s your task (Investigate how good It is). Look for reviews in your native language to see how much real watts can handle. Also check how much AMPS needs that NVIDIA GTX 970 4 GB VRAM GEFORCE GIGABYTE GDDR5 MINI-ITX. If Asrock has some software for the Voltage measurements check these values when gaming or using some 3D software like 3D Mark (theres a free demo on Steam I think): +12.000v :+12.038v, +5.00v :+5.184v, 3.30v :+3.328v (You gave us those values above in BIOS) 12v line, 3.3v line and 5v line, they need to be the most stable the whole time (they need to kept in those same numbers), especially in gaming, so you can see that the power supply is giving you the right voltages. There´s a +/- margin in those measurements but I don´t remember that at the moment. Investigate that subject also, It will help you in the future.
My advice as Talgaby is that you get a better Power Supply when is posible like a 550 or 650 watt PSU from Seasonic. You have some good hardware for not having a decent Power Supply. Save some money and get a better PSU, sell the one you have for a profit (your whole system will be more reliable for years to come). But maybe Im wrong, maybe that PSU is not that bad...thats your task m8.
You would need something like a P3 Kill a Watt Meter to measure the whole system power consumption when Turbo Core is Disabled only or when Turbo Core is enabled with CPU "Undervolt" to see If there´s a big difference in power draw when gaming between these 2 configs.
You can also try Cooler Master Power Supply Calculator so you can have an idea on how much power draw your whole system needs.
http://www.coolermaster.com/power-supply-calculator/ but that´s just an estimate, a complete review of your power supply in the web is a better option because HW reviewers use special software and devices for the measurements. Lets hope you find a complete one.
Also, about that CPU After Market cooler... TX3 Evo is not 212 Evo... confirm which one you have.
TX3 EVO http://www.coolermaster.com/cooling/cpu-air-cooler/hyper-tx3-evo/
Hyper 212 EVO http://www.coolermaster.com/cooling/cpu-air-cooler/hyper-212-evo/
Good luck m8, It´s your choice of what to do from here :)
Regards.
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I clocked my fx 8350 to 4.5ghz using a cooler master hyper 212 evo with 2 fans + artic cooling mx-4 thermal paste. Idle temps around 32°C and max around 55°C. As long as you don't go over 65, you should be fine. I've used ai suite, HWMonitor and MSIAfterburner, and all of them have shown the same temps.
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I'm using openhardware, and some months ago it said that my FX-6300 was at 190ºC. Pretty unreal if you ask me. And no, I'm not kidding.
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by disabling turbo, you have capped your processor frequency, it cannot reach its max clock anymore, and losing some performance. But at the same time it dosent require extra voltage to reach that extra frequency anymore, and that is what lowered your temps.
to get this same results but without losing performance you should undervolt, go to the BIOS on "CPU Voltage OFFSET" see if you can put a negative value there.
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I tried yesterday, but me only "+" values the only low value is "+0".
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After a quick google search, i learned that FX series CPUs have very poor thermal reporting functionally, generally the chips report 5-10 (and in some case, 20) degrees hotter than they really are.
And FX CPUs (like me) instead of using a direct contact thermometer uses a algorithim to "guess" the temperature, is true?
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