don't bother with water cooling, just get this, or its "lesser" equiv
as for the disc drive, if you have a desktop already, take the drive from there and don't buy a new one
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There's a reason AMD still exists. They don't make shitty GPUs.
Both companies are a fine source of gaming GPUs.
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If it's your first build, don't go with liquid cooling I think. If you've built before, then you probably have your reasons.
Make sure your case will fit the motherboard and long graphics card (if applicable).
I'm not sure what your overall cooling solution is, but you might need a couple of extra 120mm (or so) case fans. If you've got it all planned out and the liquid cooler will do cpu, gpu, any necessary motherboard parts and there's enough airflow around for other parts (HDDs can get hot too for example), then you're set.
I agree with others about the RAM - 16GB being unncessary - but it's not that expensive anymore so it's really up to you.
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With that budget don't get an AMD processor but a Intel processor for several reasons:
(a) Intel outperforms AMD processors and use less power. An i5-3570k, despite having less cores and speed will outperform it and is also overclockable.
(b) For more information how this AMD processor compares to intel processors check out this. A quote from there: "Costing the same and providing up to 30% performance advantage over the FX-8350, the Core i5-3470 is a far better choice. We simply can't recommend the new FX-8350 ... The only scenario where the FX-8350 was faster was on 3D rendering with Cinebench. This could mean that the FX-8350 is a better choice for professionals rending 3D images. However, we believe this kind of user will prefer to buy a Core i7 processor instead.
(c) You don't need 8-cores for gaming. Only a scant few games use more than 2 cores.
Other thoughts:
(a) 8GB of RAM is plenty. 16 is overkill.
(b) You probably don't need 700W PSU. 500W will almost certainly be enough.
(c) You might be okay will less cooling if you are not overclocking.
(d) Consider getting a Solid State hardrive (SSD) along with a regular harddrive to install your OS on. It'll make things run a lot faster.
(e) Check out Tom' Hardware Forum as they are great in giving information on builds.
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I almost 100 percent agree with this. However I'd like to add a few things things.
The psu, is one of the most important things in your build. If it fails, it could take all the other electronic components with it. Get a high quality psu, and dont be afraid to spend money on it.
Also, your case. I'd go with a haf 912 or 922, i dont have much experience with rosewill as they're are newegg's generic brand. I certainly would not get a rosewill electronic part, like psu. Cases, however, wont make or break your machine, but it will make your life easier. By replacing my case and cpu fan, I lowered the temp of my pc by almost 15 degrees celcius.
lastly, the ssd is probably the best and most visable upgrade you can do. Its almost like a miracle upgrade.
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I'd also like to add on about the intel vs amd. Buying an amd processor is one of the biggest regrets I have on my pc. Don't get me wrong, I love my pc. Its almost 5 years old and still kills anything my friends own. However, amd is by far a lower end chip. They dont even try to compete with intel. Intel has better designs and processors, so amd goes for quantity. If you have a little bit of background knowledge on programming, you'd know that its mostly linear. Only one calculation can occur at a time, and as such most software is written with this in mind. Therefore, to accomadate the vast majority of consumers, videogames are not optimized for more than a couple of cores. A quantum computer would not be faster than the intel in programs written like this. Basically, core ammount will not matter unless you're doing tasks that are split up easily such as rendering or encoding. I would highly suggest intel.
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good list of things to consider, but how many cores does a pc gamer need?
in 2008, a dual core was more than sufficient and quad core processors did not improve performance
in 2011, several games such as borderlands 2, crysis 2 and 3 began to require more than a dual core. Also borderlands 2 and crysis 3 both show small benefits from using a processor with more than 4 cores
in the future, next-gen consoles are using 2 amd jaguar quad core processors originally designed for netbooks and tablets. Developers will need to heavily multithread their games to maximize performance. However, the number of years it will take developers to fully utilize all 8 cores is uncertain. If history repeats itself it should take at least 4 years or 2015 to fully utilize all 8 cores
in conclusion, 2015 is when it would be ideal to buy an 8 core processor
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2015 is looking to be an ideal time to build a new pc. By then windows 9, half-life 3, left for dead 3, and mainstream intel processors with 6 or 8 cores and new skylake architecture should be released
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I could use the same extrapolation in the early 2000s to show that we should have 100GHz CPUs right now.
Just like there are limits to clocks, there are limits to how many cores you can fit into a CPU.
Each core requires a certain amount of "fixed" die area that doesn't shrink with process shrinks. And then you have to link the cores together, which eats up more and more die area as you add cores. Between those two things, we won't see an explosion of cores.
We'll see an explosion of something, but not what we would call a "core" today. You may say that we'll always have "cores" and I'm just using a technicality. People did the same thing when they tried to claim that two 2GHz cores were the same as one 4GHz core. It's not a technicality. Shit is complicated.
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amd fx 8350 beats the intel core i5 3570 by 29 percent in the passmark benchmarks. the amd fx 8350 has a passmark score slightly under the intel core i7 3770. therefore once the developers for the next-gen consoles utilize all 8 cores intel will have to lower the price of the intel core i7 to the intel core i5 price to stay competitive. The 6 core intel processors are likely to fall to the intel core i7 price. link to passmark benchmark index below
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you can go with chiper psu 700w is way too much you can easly use 600-650 with no problem and i know it will add kinda alot of money but get a ssd your pc will be way faster
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$90 isn't too bad for a PSU. Since an entire PC can be killed by a PSU failure, it's a good idea to make sure that you get a high-quality unit.
As for the power, it's always a good idea to leave plenty of overhead. If the OP ever wanted to create a CrossFire setup with his 7950 (which would give him a massive amount of graphical power), he'd need that much wattage.
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Only if you turn off your computer constantly. An SSD speeds up boot times and loading screens in games, saving you seconds. There are ways to turn off the many programs you don't use and be able to boot up in seconds on mechanical drives. Games only benefit if you are doing lots of map transitions or MMOs. That sort of stuff takes several seconds with regular drives and those get halved on a tiny drive that costs a ton.
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-Change the motherboard to an ASROCK extreme 4 at least.
-Change the gpu to an ASUS Geforce 760, its 10 bucks more but i'm pretty sure it's much better and worthwhile than sapphire radeon.
-I would change the cpu, but that would be a hell of a change in terms of money, so lets skip it... (or u can give i5 3570k a shot, a bit more expensive but it's most likely better than the AMD, plus electricity savings overtime will compensate in a long term use).
-Remove the water cooling and apply fans instead, much better for you, i was thinking about water cooling, fans seems to do the job pretty fine on low potency.
-Remove the operating system, you really want to give money to microsoft when there are so many ways of getting the software without having trouble? You could even use that money to apply a SSD for your computer's operating system, gaming software and other software, so u can have fast EVERYTHING! My computer turns on in about 5 seconds, shutting down is about the samething. Steam loads up in 3 seconds after u hit the login button. Game loading's are top notch, pretty fast stuff (borderlands 2 for example loads in about 3-5 seconds for me when changing maps)!
-Forgot about the ram... you either cut it down to 8GB or keep it at 16GB, i was planning on buying 32GB ram, but then i heard that 8GB was more than enough for the current games on ultra, just to make sure my build doesn't get outdated soon, i put 16GB instead. If you end up buying more, the less need to close windows will crop up since there will be plenty more ram to use and closing tabs can be a thing of the past ;)
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"Remove the operating system"... OP, just ignore that part of his post.
As for the part that actually matters, 760 vs 7950 is very close. The 760 is slightly more powerful overall than the 7950, and generally gets higher framerates. However, the 7950 has more RAM (3GB instead of 2GB), a wider memory bus (384 bit rather than 256 bit), and a higher memory bandwidth (about 25% higher).
In other words, the 7950 is better for higher resolutions, more post-processing, and higher resolution textures, whereas the 760 will give a be a slightly faster card in most modern games. My personal choice would be the 7950.
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Given that chart, my gpu is 670, which is better than both of them, difference from the 760 is short and my gpu costs alot more. HD Radeon is not worth it, it may have more memory but that's not what's going to put it has a better choice over the 760.
It's up for the dude to decide, if i was making my build now i would have went with the 760 and save like 100-150 bucks, i made my build 2 weeks before those new gpus were announced, i felt like i was robbed. Plus Nvidia is usually the one that has less problems running any type of games.
PS: Go ahead and remove the operating system, honestly. It's rather easy to get windows 7 ultimate 64 bit. Plus the price will drop down within the range you wanted.
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You're probably right. The 760 is actually cheaper than the 7950 in most cases, and it may be possible that the 760 is powerful enough that it can get around its memory bandwidth with raw power. Besides, unlike the 660 which it replaces, the memory bandwidth is actually standard for its price; the 7950 is above average in that respect.
The only problem that I could see would be framerate stability; faster memory means less FPS drops.
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Get a Black Edition HDD 1-2GB for your space requirements, then use a small 64-120GB SSD drive in front of that as cache (such as using Intel Smart Response Technology - your motherboard should support). That way you get the best of both worlds - It will automatically cache all the regularly used files/data to the SSD for faster response time overall. The Black Edition HDD has 64MB cache to quickly pass through to the SSD so it doesn't bottleneck.
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Your new build looks fine, I would highly suggest Nvidia Graphics Card over AMD, due to better drivers/support/stability/performance. However, yes it will cost more for equal/better performance and each to their own. They create development tools for their graphics, therefore more optimised and support/work with the game companies.
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Using the last parts list you used... Didn't read the thread, not sure what was touched on :/
You grab an air cooler that is a bit cheaper if you want.
Arctic Silver is not a paste anyone should be buying anymore. MX4, NT-H1, Gelid GC-Extreme, these are amongst the top choices. Coollaboratory makes some awesome liquid metal stuff, but it will void your warranty ;)
GB makes solid boards, that has the specs and looks good.
I run with 16GB, but I make use of it, most people do not. IMO, I would get something better than the cheap Corsair stuff. It will do OK, but Crucial's Sport series isn't far away and has proven great. link
The SSD should be good size wise for OS. I used to use a 40GB and that worked fine. You may want to look into SSD optimisation though, will speed it up by ten percent or more. Storage I would go with a cheaper 5400... if you can live with longer loading times on steam that is.
7950 is a great card. Don't listen to the AMD haters. I run Nvidia now and I've run AMD in the past (still do in my other system). I have had driver and sli/cf issues with both. There will always be people with bad experiences. AMD and Nvidia both work on fixing shit as fast as they can.
If you can, wire. Wireless is not that great. On a different note, at least get an adapter that supports N.
Ouch that case. CM Storm Enforcer and Bitfenix Shinobi are both in that price bracket. So is the Ostrog and Hoplite. Fractal Core 3000? Corsair 200R? HAF 912? These are all cheap cases that are, IMO, better than the Rosewill.
Not so good a PSU dude. Not just that, more power than necessary. Seasonic, pcp&c, corsair, corsair
As for Windows 7, I understand it is cheaper, but read this.
Where am I getting my information? Years of building myself, reading tech sites, advising other people, working retail, etc.
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I prefer the 2nd build, with some buts:
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You can buy Windows 8 Pro Update it's cheaper. You install it the first it won't activate because you don't have old OS but if you reinstall it a second time it works because there is an OS before the install.
It's better to have a GeForce for game that use PHYSX.
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Kill off the wifi adapter unless you damn well must have it.
Don't bother with a third party CPU cooler, the thermal paste or the "K" CPU.
Consider a GTX 760 instead of the 7950.
You don't need a 700W PSU.
Your CPU uses 84W at peak.
A 7950 uses 200W at peak (the 760 uses 170W).
RAM & hard drives don't add much more.
You don't need a bigger PSU to prepare for a second GPU. Dual GPUs introduce frame stutter and driver issues.
Getting a smaller PSU does not mean getting a shitty PSU.
Try something like this Corsair PSU that's on sale right now. It's small, but famously reliable.
Look into this fucking insane Newegg bundle.
It only has a 7770, but that's fine for gaming at 1080p. You can upgrade next year when the new GPUs come out (all new GPUs in 2013 are tweaks from last year's stuff, even Nvidia's 700 series).
I can't think of any other reason to avoid this bundle. It's even an ok deal if you [wastefully] buy a better GPU with it.
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The motherboard has an Ethernet port, but I don't know if my dorm will use wireless.
I have suffered CPU bottle necking in the past, so I'll roll the dice and go a little over.
I have used Nvidia and AMD in the past, liked them both. I would like to try the 7950.
You never know what you might want to do in the future and high wattage keeps options open.
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I explicitly mentioned that CPU bottlenecking is a thing of the past. Yes, you experienced it in the past. No, you won't experience it again. But don't trust me, research it for yourself.
Ten years ago, microprocessing architectures were built to fit in big hot boxes and then scaled down to fit in mobile products. Now they are built to fit in those mobile products and scaled up.
There's no "keeping your options open" by getting an oversized PSU. We physically can't get a GPU that uses more than 375W (75W PCI-e, 2x150W 8-pinn connectors). For scale, the $1000 Titan uses 250W. Do you ever see yourself buying more than one $1000 future GPU?
We have an entire generation of PC builders that still think they need to build big hot expensive "future-proof" boxes to play games. It's like fat Americans driving oversized SUVs. They convince themselves that they should get a vehicle that can go offroad to "keep their options open." Then they pay the fucking price at the gas pump and look like paranoid lunatics on the road.
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A CPU running over 4GHz removes the need of an upgrade for the life of the computer.
Having an overclocked CPU also greatly benefits folding programs like BOINC.
You have one benchmark at a low resolution on a game that is not very CPU-intensive. I play Civ4, which is extremely intensive.
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My "one game" is Civ5 at 2560x1440. I think that's both a CPU-intensive game and a very high resolution.
And Haswell overclocks like shit. A CPU architecture can be built to work well over one order or magnitude of TDPs. Haswell will fit into 7W power envelopes, so you'd expect Haswell to top out at 70W (7W*10), but it goes up to 84W. It's already pushing its luck.
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No, that PSU isn't reliable at all. In fact, its quite awful if you simply just look at the 12v rail, which is actually not very high. When you compare it to something like the Antec VP450, its actually a pretty bad deal, and its built by CWT as well.
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My thoughts (condensed form of what I've said in replies, with some extra stuff)
Edit: You probably don't need such an expensive CPU cooler. Unless you're planning on overclocking in the future (in which case you should definitely get a 3570K), the stock cooler works perfectly fine.
Edit 2: In your situation, a 4670K should be absolutely fine.
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My father is helping to pay for the computer as I'm off to college. He has insisted on getting an i7-4770k and it was all I could do to talking down to a 4670k.
I've found that the 760 and 7950 are fairly equal cards. What it comes down to is personal preference, do you like image stability or quality?
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your father is right, there is no point getting an old CPU when the new one costs about the same. Jumping to 4xxx platform will gives you newer socket, 6x SATA 6Gbps (instead of 2), and more USB 3.0 ports. It's definitely no brainer to buy 4xxx, since you are basically not upgrading.
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It's certainly not a no-brainer, since it's a bit more expensive, doesn't overclock as well, and the SATA & USB ports that you mentioned are relative to the specific boards. However, in this case, I don't see a problem with going with the 4670K.
Besides, this 4xxx series seems to be a minor improvement over the previous gen, so the next gen (which will almost certainly use the newer socket) will probably be where the major improvements will be shown.
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http://pcpartpicker.com/part/amd-cpu-hdz980fbgmbox the AMD quadcore (BE) is 100$ less than the i5 and faster
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I feel like the Hyper 212 EVO is all you really need in most cases, especially considering you are getting Haswell. This gen's Extreme4 is actually good so theres no reason to spend extra on the Z77X-UD3H over it. Plextor drives are faster and more reliable, and you can fit 128GB in your budget. 760 because its cheaper and just as good in most situations or better. PSu change because the CX line is kind of meh at best and the XFX 650w is built by Seasonic so its very very reliable. Also, 650w is enough for SLI so you have more than enough power for simply running what you need.
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Looks like I had a typo. If you look at the build, I had a Z87 motherboard, but just ended up typing Z77 for some random reason.
Also, did he say he wasn't planning to overclock? I was guessing that he was planning to since he put a 4670k and a 50$ heatsink in his build. I don't see how Zxx boards are for SLI either considering you can xfire (and sometimes SLI) on Hxx board.
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Part List
Part List 2 - UPDATE
Part List 3 - UPDATE 2
Part List 4 - UPDATE 3
I DON'T LIKE WINDOWS 8
Slightly over budget coming in at about $1200. Will have to shop around and pull in some favors.
If you have any last thoughts I'd like to hear them.
Many thanks for all the help guys, I learned a lot.
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