Will you buy this bundle?
It's live now! :}
Such weak bundle.... Also I can just see 5 Steam Games, unless the unlockable one counts?
Anyway Fort Defense & obviously Adorables has been free.
Lesson learned for me, no more preorders without decent hints :)
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That seems to be a firm Groupees rule. Pity I logged in with 1 minute till preorder finish and got compelled into an impulse buy..
The few completely incorrect hints they did give ended up only being salt in the wound, especially with Cyanic's response to them being brought up.
But yeah, every site seems to have some quirk to keep in mind, and Groupees' main one definitely seems to be 'don't order without hints'. :/
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What is that talk about incorrect hints about? I'm steadily losing my interest in Groupees' bundles, I'm not following like I used to ...
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Cyanic has repeatedly clarified that bonuses aren't counted toward hints.
This bundle, he said 7 games + 1 album.
Informatics then came in and said '6 steam games'.
Ergo, we assumed 6 steam + 1 non-steam + 1 album + 2 bonus, based on the total hints given.
We ended up with 5 steam (one of which was previously free), 3 DRM-free, one free Steam bonus, and one mystery bonus.
It ended up being a rather bit different than expected.
Then, despite the emphasis being on Informatics [and the fact that he'd previously said that Groupees will always honor refunds where preorder hints were notably misleading], Cyanic came in with a 'well, there's 6 steam games now, so stop bitching about it' mentality
It got a bit more ugly than it really needed to. :X
Preorder phase:
cyanic: When people ask me if there are any bonuses, I don't tell them. They are not a part of the bundle until they're unlocked and bundle launched, and it prevents pitchforks from people thinking they'll get all tge games at the start.
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cyanic: You don't see anyone else talking about bonuses unless there were nothing else to hint at, and only then it's hint at half of the bundle at most. Jonny's rules.
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cyanic: 7 games, 1 album, no comments on bonus because those are supposed to be secret.
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Informatics: there's 6 steam games
Post-Launch:
cyanic: Yeah, 6 Steam, 3 Greenlight
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// That math doesn't add up. You're only counting one bonus now?
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cyanic: Of course it does. Have you checked the number of items again?
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cyanic: I wasn't counting bonuses at all. In fact, I don't think I've said anything about the bundle prior to now.
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cyanic: In any case, there's 6 Steam games right now, so it's a moot point.
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cyanic: There are six Steam games at the time the bundle came out (or at least when I've checked). Arguing over whether that was part of the hints is petty.
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cyanic: The end result is six games. So what?
Anyway, that weird second section aside, the initial point that was made [by me] just after launch was that Informatics both had stated in the past that notably misleading bundles would be refunded if asked, and that he himself had misled on the contents of this bundle, and so in theory anyone wanting a refund might qualify for one.
As you can see, Cyanic didn't take to the idea- in fact, he brushed off the matter of refunds completely.
Which isn't necessarily an issue, except that it contradicts the company's previous statement on the matter.
Groupees has its plus sides- something I'll readily admit to now that they started cleaning up their approach to things like chat behaviors at the start of the year- but they definitely have some frustrations, especially where it comes to (not offering bundle hints/offering incorrect ones) and (disregarding customer feedback in most cases).
Add in how Cyanic seems to both get easily confused and agitated by just about everything, and is extremely easy to misunderstand, himself, and there's a lot more drama there than there really ought be. :X
(Especially as my own overemphatic, overprecise nature seems to clash with his personality, so I imagine I don't help matters in the least most of the time.)
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I'm pretty sure one of the Groupees staff members stated they don't do refunds unless you accidentally buy too many bundles (2+), or under obvious situations where there are errors during processing (like getting double charged, or not getting a bundle you paid for).
If Informatics really did say they'll refund if the preorder was misleading, there's conflicting info about their refund process. I've never heard of anyone getting a refund for a misleading preorder though. cyanic actually thought it was ridiculous when someone requested a refund for the tax year 2 bundle, which is probably the most misleading bundle they've done (background pic was for Wreckfest when it should've been for Flatout 3). Chances of getting a refund are low.
Even if they do allow refunds if the preorder is misleading.. good luck trying to convince them it was misleading lol.
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Informatics said it after a few misleading bundles following the overwhelmingly misleading MangaReader (VN2/VN3) bundles, while people were still very upset over the bundles being nearly entirely (or entirely) shovelware nukige, rather than actually having visual novels in them.
His phrasing at the time was along the lines of "We do offer refunds for misleading bundles if you feel the bundles were notably misrepresented, you just need to ask us for them."
The point in the comments I made was to establish prior declarations on the topic, not to indicate a reliable outcome based on those.
Rather, it's the sum of 'not honor previous refund guarantees', 'misleading preorder hints', and 'rude, erratic responses to the topic' that really makes the matter so.. icky feeling.
And no, Cyanic gave appropriate hints for the Tax Year 2 bundle, and flat out said that all games would be junk/joke games during preorder.
So there was no misleading contents directly declared by company representatives, regardless of what people assumed from the background image on their own.
Groupees never made a guarantee that the background image would match contents, regardless of if that's been the case in basically every other bundle.
It's a difference of context.
Even if they do allow refunds if the preorder is misleading.. good luck trying to convince them it was misleading lol.
Again, it's not a matter of expecting Groupees to behave in a respectable way-
Rather, it's emphasizing that they're continuing their pattern of behaving in ways that are.. less than ideal.
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"And no, Cyanic gave appropriate hints for the Tax Year 2 bundle, and flat out said that all games would be junk/joke games during preorder."
He never said Wreckfest wasn't in it. Now I know the likelyhood of Wreckfest being in that bundle was pretty much going to be non-existent, but if you advertise a game in the background pic, it better be in the bundle or it's false advertising.. april fools day or not. The background pic has always been used as a hint for what's in the bundle. Supposedly they screwed up that one time and used what they thought was a pic from Flatout 3 but was actually from Wreckfest (they switched the background pic to Flatout 3 when the bundle went live). Those VN bundles you're referring to were MangaGamer bundles btw, not MangaReader, and I don't recall them being misleading just because they were full of nukige.. It's not like Groupees told anyone to expect otherwise. They are technically VNs after all.
This is why Groupees most likely won't give refunds for these situations. What you find misleading, I probably don't find misleading and vice versa. Groupees will have to find it misleading, and them admitting that will almost never happen. BTW, the statement about refunds I was talking about was long after any of the VN bundles ended. I wish I could find the quote, but it was pretty clear that they weren't going to do refunds for misleading bundles.
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and I don't recall them being misleading just because they were full of nukige.. It's not like Groupees told anyone to expect otherwise. They are technically VNs after all.
No, they're really not. :X
At best, that'd be like saying 'all roguelikes are RPGs'. They may share similarities, but the expectations when you say the genre names differs dramatically.
More appropriately, since the entire focus is different, it'd be like saying "single player shooter games" and then giving "multiplayer-only gun-based RTS games".
(Or better yet, it's like people saying 'Anime games' because they share a style, regardless of the fact that the most popular 'anime game' genres are platformers, shmups, JRPGs, action-RPGs, adventure games, brawlers, fighting games, to name a few.)
The similarities are superficial, since the entirity of the scope and presentation differs.
Moreover, your sentiments are irrelevant on the matter, since many others were frustrated with the matter, and Groupees acknowledged the matter [complete with the refund mention].
It was made pretty clear Wreckfest wasn't going to be in there, but either way, early on he said outright they'd all be junk games (I know this for sure- I was the one that asked for the clarification). Moreover, there's a big difference between an implied acknowledgement of contents through a long-running assumption, and an outright declaration of contents.
And, again, you're emphasizing the wrong point entirely.
The discussion isn't about whether they will or will not give refunds. That's not even remotely related to the primary topic. The discussion is about how Groupees has a habit of saying things [be they preorder content hints or declarations of company policy] and them not being reliable. And, on top of that, their response to the matters being brought up typically being dismissive and rude, rather than offering a clear indication of their perspective.
As far as the timing, VN3 was end of August, and Informatic's comments came after the poorly-received bundles at the start of the year. So, I don't know, 2 or 3 months ago?
What you were informed may in fact have come after, but his comments were still relatively recent, and I hadn't seen any indication of a change in policy-
and clearly, Cyanic didn't feel a need to offer one..
Which again, is the real issue, which isn't at all based in policies they may or may not have, but in their habit of approaching their customers in a rude, non-straightforward manner.
(Past any mistakes they may make in genre identification, hint provision, or policy clarification.)
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Nukige are really just a sub-genre of VNs.. they're still VNs lol. It's not even something that could be considered an opinion, it's a fact. Yes, people were disappointed with those bundles because of the contents, but there's a difference between being disappointed because a bundle is crap, or because they were misled by hints. In this case, most people were disappointed because of the quality of the bundles.. not because they were misled.
Also, there is no "wrong" point to emphasize. I brought up my own points, and respond how I saw fit. While I do understand where you're coming from, I don't think you're going to get anywhere by arguing over semantics in this particular instance. He made a mistake and didn't want to admit it, he's done this several times in the past, and I've brought it up many times on another forum ;). Groupees tends to ignore complaints like this, the best way to deal with them is to not buy their bundles. Personally I try to skip the shitty ones and blind buy Be Mines or greenlight bundles. I don't like buying from groupees, but I have a bundle addiction :(
Honestly this is far from the worst thing that a Groupees staff member has done. Jonny (the groupees CEO) once suggested one of their partners should commit fraud, there's even a screenshot of a chat log that proves it, but I'd rather not go further into that here. Anyway, I'm done discussing this here. If you want to talk further you can add me on steam.
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That's (to my understanding, and the understanding of those I've discussed it with) entirely incorrect.
Eroge are erotic games. They aren't required to be visual novels, they just most often are. The English Analogue is 'Adult Content Games'.
Nukige are a sub-genre of Eroge, where the emphasis is entirely on the smut, and there's no story or gameplay to speak of [and in the case of MangaGamer, apparently rather terrible art, as well?]. The English Analogue is 'Pornographic Games'.
You're basically saying that all (X-rated games) are automatically Visual Novels.
That's outright nonsensical.
But, most importantly, that's just not how Visual Novel fans interpret it. If common sentiment is that Visual Novel means one thing- mind you, we even clarified this point during VN1, so it's not like Groupees wasn't aware of our feelings on the matter- and you offer something else entirely, then obviously that's going to cause discord.
In fact, your own argument toward the background image is based on the exact same principle, except to a less significant degree. If you feel your background image sentiment is justified, then clearly this sentiment would be, as it's a larger-scale, external (and thus not as freely mutable) consideration based on the same principles.
Also, there is no "wrong" point to emphasize
You were emphasizing a point that was not primary to the topic at hand. Within the context of the core topic, it was wrong (Wrong. Def: adverb: 1: in an unsuitable or undesirable manner or direction.).
In other words, I was clarifying that your points were on a tangent to my own. It's not a value statement toward your points, but a clarification of them not being relevant to my own.
He made a mistake and didn't want to admit it, he's done this several times in the past, and I've brought it up many times on another forum ;). Groupees tends to ignore complaints like this, the best way to deal with them is to not buy their bundles. Personally I try to skip the shitty ones and blind buy Be Mines or greenlight bundles. I don't like buying from groupees, but I have a bundle addiction :(
:laugh: Well, no arguments from me on this part, unfortunately.
I just wish my own bundle addiction didn't lead to me making bad buying decisions. I've gotten pretty good about it, but loading up the page with just 1 minute left on the timer made me make an unfortunate knee-jerk reaction. Then again, I based that reaction on expectations of [more steam games and an album], and I certainly wouldn't have bought without that.
So, I would say I have some justification for being irked about the matter, even without the poor follow-through, and despite it, as you say, not ending up accomplishing anything to poke at.
Then again, my aim was never to push the matter with Groupees, but simply to clarify the details involved [in this case for Eeev, who asked]. :)
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I was saying a Nukige, when it comes to VNs.. is a sub-genre. In the case of the games in the mangagamer bundles, those were all VNs. I don't know what VN fans you're talking to, but everyone I've talked to has universally agreed on this fact. You can find this information via wikipedia, google, etc. I'm not sure why I'm even explaining this to you when you called MangaGamer "MangaReader" to begin with lol. My background pic argument had nothing to do with the VN bundles, those were all accurate and the BG pics did depict a game that were in those VN bundles.
The reason for why there are mostly nukige VNs in the MangaGamer bundles is because of the publisher. JastUSA adds more "normal" VNs to their bundles while MangaGamer likes to bundle nukige. Unfortunately JastUSA bundles have become rare, the last one they did was the Steins Gate bundle. I believe that's why the sub-genres differ so much between the MangaGamer bundles and JastUSA (or the earlier JastUSA/MangaGamer hybrid bundles). I honestly think Groupees was testing the market on those rather than trying to mislead people, and I guess it was kind of successful (sex sells).
Anyway, I really don't want to talk more about this here, I just wanted to add that last clarification. Please add me on steam if you want to discuss further.
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Hmmm, a bit less than I was hoping for in the "casual" category... The one game I would have been pretty happy about, I already own. sigh - more bundle trains are in my future :-p
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Lucky.
I only had to wait a minute more, and I also could have been safe..
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Two wishlisted games, no pre-order for me. Slightly regretting.
Oh well, I do have that $1 coin...
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Good thing i i did what i say i do and not buy it, would have been disappointed by it. Really doesn't look good at all.
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Looks like my feeling about skipping this was spot-on. Nothing interesting here, sadly.
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Well this'll teach me not to follow my gut anymore. xD
I suppose Adorables was kinda worth it.. kinda.
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This bundle sucks so much! Groupees is just getting worse.
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It's not THAT bad! Well, 3 new games, and some greenlight games. Still worth $1.25 for me!
So there is a shitty port, alright. Maybe the word-balloon game is ultra casual and probably not fun, but Empire of the Gods looks kinda decent at least. :] Hm.
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The Casual Bundle #7
$1.25 preorder (for the first 24 hours)$2 for 8 gamesPrice increase in <24 hours at 1 PM PST, Apr 23$2
Greenlight Games
Retail: $23.94
CV:
Warning: Adorables and Fort Defense have been free
Remember to vote for these games on GreenLight if you would like a Steam key for them. You may or may not eventually get a key once they are Green Lit
Bonuses:
Preorder Hints:
View Previous Casuals Below:
P.S. - Want to know what other bundles are going on? Check out the MASTER LIST of ONGOING BUNDLES - w/ CHARTS (updated daily!) ❤
Thanks moppel!
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