Well, this is a video game gifting site. You would think people talk about video games, gifting video games, and associated topics, but now we have more PSAs and blogs than fucking Huffington Post. It was boring, and I can almost guarantee you that the majority reached the point where they gave zero flying fucks about any of this. And not because they are emotionless insensitive pricks, but because this shit is everywhere and you'd think at least a video game gifting site would be free of this prattle.
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Because the online gaming community in particular doesn't have a sexism problem that needs to be addressed or that's even worth talking about, right?
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Of course. For example, I know online games where the player base seems to be 90%+ female. I am sure it would be worth a few articles on how anti-male some video game genres are.
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I know, right? I even just played a hidden object game with a male protagonist and I nearly lost my shit and had to restrain myself from telling the developers to kill themselves over and over again on twitter. Having men in hidden object games is just political pandering and I for one won't stand for it! Games used to just be for us, for women, and now we don't even have a space just for us!!!
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I have tried to add the tag "Male Protagonist" to a couple games. I have yet to see a game which is tagged properly to ensure everyone knows which gender the main character is. If a steam buyer wants to steer his/her purchasing habits toward or away from such a genre, currently he/she is not properly informed.
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That's actually really good, and I'm sorry that that tag hasn't taken off. (Though I wouldn't call it a genre, just a feature)
While I know why 'Female protagonist' tags exist (because it is still a relative rarity that a game has a female protagonist in many genres, and many people (me included!) actively search for games that feature people like me because it's still not common) I think at this point not having a 'male protag' tag is treating it like it's the default.
'It doesn't NEED a tag, because a default protagonist is a male one. Why tag something that's expected? That's default?' is something to push back against because it's another way to signify women as 'other'.
I also would love to see the balance of games w/ male protagonist tags vs. female protagonist ones. I love me some data points. Thank you, euroboardgames.
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LMAO. I agree wholeheartedly :]
People just need to chill a bit about 1st World Problems
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'You don't have as it bad as someone else, so your problems shouldn't be addressed'? That makes sense.
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This is exactly what I meant, the passive-aggresive sarcasm doesn't help your case. I never said "this ain't a real problem pfff 420noscope", I just said that people need to chill, let me elaborate: we become aggresive and narrow sighted due to anger, and sometimes we take things way too far in order to make a point and fall into somewhat ridicule behaviour.
Now now, don't get offended, it's just our opinion not an attack towards all women on the planet. I've never had much issue playing a female character on a videogame, or a robot, an alien or an animal for that matter. So this push of having female protagonist it's a bit silly for a lot of us, I guess we see the medium as a business too instead of an evil propaganda by the patriarchy. Johanna Dark > Pierce Brosnan in N64.
tl;dr: All in all, I'm glad to have diversity of race and gender in videogames (and now even sexual preferences), I just don't think it's a key change towards reducing sexism.
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Thanks for the substantive reply! I admit to the sarcasm, but to be fair I don't think saying "LMAO ... 1st World Problems" helps convey that you take the issue of sexism seriously either.
While I agree that more diversity in video game avatars might not be the most important change possible, if it helps reduce the problem at all, why not embrace it immediately and wholeheartedly, especially if it wouldn't be inconvenient at all to do so? Why is the fact that something isn't a total solution a reason not to do it?
Clearly sexism stems from the stereotypes, expectations, and mental representations we as individuals and as a culture build up in our minds, and a not insignificant part of that involves learning from the representations of women in media (including games, movies, TV, etc), as well as learning relative importance and status by where we don't see women and the roles they don't occupy, both in media and elsewhere (e.g., as presidents or CEOs).
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Yes indeed, the thing is that in this sexist crusade often key variables are overlooked in order to validate the argument, in the case of videogame a lot of feminists got their info through Anita Sarkeesian and ended up with cherry picked facts. Like why Batman's ass gets covered by a cape and not Catwoman... when you get Nightwing in the same fucking game with his ass in plain sight xD
Also, those character designs come from comic books and both in comics and in videogames their designs are thought to appeal to their core demographics, which are males. Thankfully now we're having a ton of women and girls who like nerdy stuff and publishers are taking that into account, we see how Bioware and Blizzard are taking a ballsy move in including homosexuality in AAA mass marketed games too.
All that said, I think we are making good progress in videogames and it's not a thing worth being too stressed about. We've had female characters in multiplayer games pretty much since forever and then in RPGs too, and they are conquering single player action and adventure games now :]
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While it's true that we've made some progress, the very fact that it can be described as a "ballsy" move to include ::gasp:: homosexuality in a game shows that games have a long way to go in order to stop sending (intentionally or unintentionally) the exclusionary message that homosexuality isn't an accepted part of humanity, or implicitly telling girls and women the damaging message that their value depends, either in part or in whole, on their appearance.
And it's still not clear why we can't get some Nightwing cleavage...
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In that case we ought to educate the general population and not force developpers and publishers to take such decisions, since in truth there are too many anti-gay conservative people, that's the real reason that such actions are deemed "ballsy" and "progressive", it goes against the norm or "the majority´s" mindset, I use quotes since it's not a general majority but your target's general feeling. For one, it will be a cold day in hell when you will see EA and Activision including homosexuality in their cash cow's sports and shooter top hitters... hopefully it won't be like that for our children's generation, change is slow.
And we all know that the cleavage is for the over sexualization of the character, I can apologize the designers due the fact that the Catwoman character explicitly takes advantage of her appearance to seduce her male counterparts, she's a femme fatale, but I clearly see that such explanations are going to seem more like excuses to you xD As long as the target of X game is mainly teenage and young men we will find over sexualized female characters everywhere, sex sells. You can see this in Tomb Raider... they went into a more gritty and natural look than the previous Bimbo that was Lara Croft, great gameplay, great reviews, BUT... sadly the masses didn't buy enough units (accoridng to Square Enix) :/
And that's why I keep seing this more a business issue than a cultural issue. And we're getting better female protagonists in better single player games over time, just look at Hell's Blade and Horizon Zero Dawn (power to the red heads lol), and they aren't over sexualized. Change is slow, but in the right direction! :D
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There's definitely a business aspect to it, but it's important to recognize that there's a feedback loop: businesses create products that strongly shape and influence the tastes and mindsets of their young customers in addition to catering to preexisting tastes and mindsets. Primarily for that reason, but also simply because it's insulting and degrading to women to produce such products, companies aren't off the hook and should change their practices even if their sexism is for "business" reasons.
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And you're definitely not overgeneralizing and dismissing a widespread issue based on a single unrepresentative example at all.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Availability_heuristic
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No, I am not-so-subtly hinting that if you try try to find sexism in <insert anything here>, you will find sexism there. This is true for any concept in any area. Sexism is the current trend. A few decades ago, it was left-wing supporters. Even a few more decades before that, people of Jewish heritage. There are always social issues that have been always present to a degree, sometimes more, sometimes less. Focusing entirely on one and trying to project it into every area of life is as short-sighted as thinking that people turn a blind eye to it. Maybe they do not. They just do not dedicate their entire being to that one thing as they try to live in a world larger than one problem.
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Or maybe, for a few days, in light of the #MeToo campaign, people of good conscience could actually try to address a serious issue directly affecting gamers and the gaming community before moving on to other 'more important' things?
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Just because there are some games which more women play than men it doesn't make them "anti-male" lmao
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Where's the Bubble Wizard Saga games then?
This is completely nonsensical, don't take it seriously.
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The irony is that while thepointman thinks he's being rude, he's also too thick to see that this is an empowering image about how women can (and should) refuse to be told to shut up about uncomfortable issues--like sexual harassment and assault--that talgaby (see above) and others think shouldn't be addressed on SG's forums. Repost this everywhere, I'm not even mad! :)
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this shit is everywhere and you'd think at least a video game gifting site would be free of this prattle.
I guess that's revealing enough.
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It's just a generation where people can express opinions anonymously and they feel that every should hear what they say. Maybe they are also looking for someone to agree on their thoughts. All I can say is ignore and move on, but sometimes people WANT to feel OFFENDED. It gives them a way to express anger and force people to apologize and thus making them superior
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Generation Wallflower, yes, I know. And they are offended if you are not as offended as they are at something they want to be offended at.
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I'm sorry.....had to post this after reading your first 8 words
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since i got suspended 3 times and got 5 threads closed for being "funny", i think the reaction from support was perfectly fine this time.
the difference is these new threads weren't parodies of steamgifts, they were mocking real life issues.
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When is it mocking real life issues? You know i made one about guys wanting the attention from a woman but couldnt get it, you even commented in it, seemingly without a problem of that topic, if that is not mocking but when you make one about burned toast or a sunday awareness thread (which was mine and got closed) then it is?
Some probably just also tried to be "funny" rather then just mocking things.
Oh and a thread of mine about someone that wanted his gifted games back, while you could say i mocked there, can't say those were real life issues..
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you're missing what's behind that carbon-copied thread, like, how many reports for other comments got stacked.
and again, undermining efforts to fight against harassment isn't something to laugh at. joke about cv, begging, people crying about points, it's ok.
i draw the line with real life problems.
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I question how much a burned toast, sunday awareness, or x others would undermine a fight against women harassment, but okay..
We can disagree on that, most sane people won't laugh about or at harassment, doesn't mean you can make something light on another thread, and there were alot of topics made also about harassment that took a very serious note.
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yes, but for some reason no one laughed at the depression, illness, and war ones.
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Noone again is or was laughing at women harassment either (unless it happened in a thread that i don't know about), you used a word "awareness" basically (all) that was taken by everyone.
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the burned toast one, was awesome, while being funny, it wasn't mocking the "real life issue" (thinking that would just show a real lack of understanding) but showed how flawed the original thread was, with the awfully rude and bad argument. Though the creator of the original thread would not be able to understand that as she thought her answers were perfectly appropriate, and have the kind of mentality who won't make her accept how awful it was. But you don't have the right to say those kind of truth or youll get blacklist / harassed / insulted because she was "defending women" :p
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funny that you blacklist me and claim i blacklist people instead.
yes, bad argument. seems harassment is like racism, non-existent. /s
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when did i said that "YOU" blacklisted people ? I did not. Stop thinking you are at the center of the world, i was talking about everyone who read a comment saying / showing your argument as bad and would blacklist etc just because you were defending "women". It was the case with some people on some of he other thread that opened in this storm wich is why i said this.
Also it seems you are justifying what i said, you won't accept, and prefer casting aside all remark by making people say what they didn't said, im feeling bad for you. I wish you will polish your social skill, if not for your own happiness, it would be for the others around you, have a good day/night
(and don't make fun of burned toast :p)
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you targeted me with your comment, don't play innocent now.
and yes, i won't accept that people find harassment a non-issue, there's no way around it.
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nope i don't need to play innocent, you just need to read.. you really have this kind of mentality :')
sure, try to justify yourself by still making people said what they did not, that kind of comportment is one of the reason of the flaw in your thread that made it not as serious as it should, as the awareness was real.
My advice of polishing your social skill was not to make fun of you, if you want to talk about important subject like you did , it will come handy and you won't spit on those kind of subjects / readers. I am sure there have been many comment about this, and trying to take them into account would help you understand what i mean. (the whole burned toast thread should have been an enlightment, how come so many people went past this)
I can understand that we are on steamgift, and not on BBC so you may have thought it was not important to put the form, but your point was to inform people right ? not talking like they are trash (you think you didn't ? i am sure youll understand that when people will talk about you the way you did, sometimes people need that) anyway, since you will probably just find another excuse and trying to make me into a racist or someone who don't care instead of looking at yourself, i think it would be better for both our free time to stop this discussion here.
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when confronted with their own shortcomings, most people either mock it or double-down on it
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aka "it is fine to mock/troll/harass other users as long as I am doing it, if it's someone else and god forbid he is a different point of view from mine then suddenly there is a huge difference, and while all closures of my topics were unjustified, these particular were fully ok." Gotta love yer double standards xD
and inb4, no I do not view any of these harassment mocking topics ok at any level, they were cancer and should have been closed much sooner before they spreaded for whole forums, but they have been no different from what you yourself have done multiple times
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where's the assumption? first you say you were banned for such things then in bold you adds "but this time it was fine". Adding this time clearly indicates opposition of 2nd part of sentence to 1st one, so it's fine these people get topics closed and suspended, it's not fine when mully gets the same treatment for the same thing... You may say "French Fries in MCD are usually great but this time they were horrible", you cannot say "French Fries in MCD are usually great but this time they were great" ;)
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I explained why it is not assumption. if it's too hard for you to understand 4 lines of text, then sorry, not my fault :)
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lmao, you were so bitter(and your friends) about your previous threads being closed in past and being suspended, when they were clearly mocking and kind of insulting others, but when other parody threads are closed, you dig in your opinion justified reasons for that. and while I can agree woman harassment is a problem (but disagree with some of your arguments there), it is not real life problem FOR ME or my immediate female close ones (yes, I asked)
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Yep they mocked my depression. Said to not let things effect me when everything was effecting me. Said to get thicker skin multiple times. Said I wanted attention when I did because I felt so alone in my own mind.
But hell sexual harassment of the non physical type. That's an issue. What about rape? Is that not important? That's been an important issue in my and others lives. Cat calling as an issue is stupid.
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OK I'm already tired of hearing about this, so let's clear this up right now, since you keep mentioning it.
Here is where I gave you some advice to try and have a thicker skin on the internet, because you reacted to someone's comment that wasn't even about you. It was well-meaning, friendly advice, given in good spirits after you exploded over someone's nomination thread - a thread created because they wanted to include everyone in a nomination event and make it fun for everyone.
Your reaction? To call me a douche-bag for trying to be nice to you. I was also called a retard and an asshole for my trouble. So please, stop bringing it up. I wasn't being a douche-bag -- I was actually trying to be nice to you, but it seems now you've twisted things around to fit your constant "victim complex." Whatever works for you, but at least get the facts straight. It's getting old.
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+1
OP is also missing the point that several people abused the good will, despite several flags that their behavior became too extreme. When some don't know their limits, it will sooner or later become necessary to show them.
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yes.
support showed my limits 5 months ago, but it's wrong now to tell others to stop. i still don't know what they are trying to defend here...
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Define extreme and examples then of what you found abuse (if i seemed to have missed a point).
There were several sort of threads the last weeks, the ones with "awareness" in the topic titles based on Mully's, one or two would have been cheeky, maybe some find it a laugh, maybe some find it annoying, but indeed after 5 or so it got old, and then it became a trend on some other topics too. People done it before in the past (not to this extreme though) but suddenly now it became an issue.
Then there is the whole metoo thing that others started with some repeating stuff, that i only skimmed and already knew what direction that was heading, maybe i missed certain things said there or in other threads, but i am talking about "copying" other people's threads that itself as long as you keep it civil, it's not abuse atleast.
As Willpower said, i am also for that Mully never should have been suspended but the same for people that make threads we are talking about now (and as far as i know, noone has been, only the threads got closed).
But that's also still a point i advocated a long time ago in a support ticket for another issue, suspensions, warnings all happen on a whim of whoever support member gets to something first.
And i am all for having clearer set rules on what is acceptable and what is not, and everyone also getting the same treatment, CG was supposed to work on some better guidelines, but that's already months ago again that it was said, while it can take 15-30 minutes to make.
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Why would I need to define that? Isn't it enough that it was pretty easy to register that the flood of threads began to upset people?
If negative feedback and upsetting others is their motivation, then the resulting reaction is quite logical. And I don't see why it would be necessary to mention that in guidelines. "Don't act like a dick" is pretty much essential. For any community. Well, for most.
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You said "op was missing something", so that means me, if there were certain topics that got out of hand and i missed something, that was what i was talking about, but guess not.
Where is it said anywhere about "negative feedback and upsetting others" because from what i did read plenty of people having reacted in such threads as of late they found it completely normal or reacted in their own "funny" ways.
There are 1 million users on this forum there will always be things said that some like and upset others, if two make a similar thread (what has been done plenty of times before) and three others feel the need for it too, don't blame the other two, and again doesn't make such people a dick, and i never disagreed with it being annoying so many in the end, but that's different, this flooding is also the only time since last week that it started since like in forever.
If it seems better to staff that you can't "mock" or make a similar thread as someone elses anymore then just let it be written, simple.
Just to take Mully's example, there are no same treatments for everyone by every staffmember, so long that isn't there, apparently there does need to be a need for better guidelines. "Don't act like a dick" seems so simple yet somehow it still goes so wrong so many times..
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Good no more misogynists, feminist, idiots, bored, narcissist shit posters. Now let's talk about games again.
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That seemed like kind of an ouch response.. not sure if you meant it that way though so won't assume since I love you and you are usually super nice.
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Well they should keep it uncensored and I'll say what some douche bag told me before when I was at an extreme low point of my depression... Yep, talking about real life issues...
"Get some thicker skin"
Like cat calling. Just fucking ignore it. Simple.
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Because ignoring problems makes them go away!
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Well, thats what I was told about my depression. Just put up with it and don't cry about it on this very website.
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And so now you're passing along the same shitty advice to others?
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Yeah because its basically towards the same person.
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How about still talking about depression, but in a thread in which you are also giving away a game? They wouldn't be able to do shit since you are just ranting a bit as a side note. You could also go to those specifically made for this, like "You're not alone" or "Positive thread!".
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We should strive to be better. If you feel as though you were given bad advice, which it appears as though you do, then you shouldn't spread it to others. Malice is a very unfortunate motivation.
I'm a hypocrite
also I really like spoiler tags. It's like having parentheses. But the parentheses are like physical parentheses. Like real walls. SPOILERS ARE AMAZING
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I hope his/her short sighted words didn't affect you. In your context, inaction is an action as I replied before. The action to try to forget and ignore.
I am far from being an expert in this regard, but unless there are biochemical factors inducing or worsing your depression, seems like whoever told you that is approaching some sort of cognitive-behavioral therapy to help you, and in that, I wish you the best.
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Inaction is also an action. In this context, the inaction she is talking about is the action of actively trying to forget or distract herself about her depression. Depression is mostly an internal conflict, and very personal. The problems you advocate to fight like misogyny do occur in the outside world where action must be taken.
In other words, by inaction, she is doing something for herself, following the advice of a professional.
You seem to lack the awareness to understand that your own ideology and perspective doesn't translate into every aspect of the reality. I encourage you to reflect before criticizing how people deal with their internal conflicts.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bORO0FjKd0
On a more serious note, while on a theoretical level I could agree with just ignoring cat calling, in reality it is too common for that to be the practical response. It is representative of institional problems within our society that seriously need to be addressed.
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I'm just more annoyed that the same group of people are shoving it down people's throats. As a woman, I don't give a fuck. I can't listen to people who can belittle depression and low self worth (to the point of suicide), but oh no... An idiot said something to you, lets preach it to everyone.
Sorry this isn't supposed to be taken out on you personally
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Catcalling is the single,most important humanity issue of 21st century! /s
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Yes because your copy/paste threads of buzzfeed celebrity advice worded in the most one-note,condescending,hyperbole and shallow broad assumption driven ways was just the epitome of nuance and well thought-out,rational arguments...
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Uh-huh. Well enjoy spamming links at other people since you aren't able anything but baiting people in forums. Maybe one day you'll rack up enough reports to get banned. I gotta wonder what self-delusion are you having about the mods closing down your worthless threads. "Those misogynist nazi apes! They probably closed down those threads while raping and sexually assaulting women in their spare time...ya know like all men do!"
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I think you may need look up the meaning of 'spam' if you think that correctly identifying your invalid arguments as invalid (specifically, (i) caricaturing a position as more extreme than it is, and (ii) claiming that two-wrongs-make-a-right) counts as 'spam'.
Actually, I think the move from support is positive, since it will bring more attention to an important issue, and leave people to discuss better constructed and more worthwhile threads like this one: https://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/9tYg1/.
But thanks for showing everyone the ridiculous ways in which you imagine that people who support women's rights think!
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It doesn't make some of the people I work for laugh. It makes them scared. That's why I have a job.
Good for you that you can "laugh it off", but perhaps be more accepting of the fact that there are people who cannot, and for those people, it can be a very serious issue. I see it all the time.
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Odd (but apt) you should mention that.
I was stabbed a couple months back by an "overzealous" person who wouldn't stop harassing clients.
People can deny this shit happens all they like. I have the scars to prove it does.
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if it doesn't happen to them, people assume it doesn't happen all that much. A very self-centered way of looking at things, as if you're the center of the universe. But then, most people do kinda think they're the center of their universe
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I'm glad most people never have to see those sorts of things. I really am. Most of us have never suffered a rape or murder, either, but it undeniably happens and should be stopped (along with a bunch of other not so pleasant things).
As for your other comment -- likewise, bro, and I take that as one of the highest compliments someone can pay on SG. Thanks for the smile. :)
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I often think you and I would get along quite well IRL
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Political ones are already avoided, now this, lately i feel there isn't already much other talk left lately then bundle information, giveaways, and some group recruitment.
I'm fine with this. This is a website where people giveaway and win games. There's the whole rest of the internet to talk about all that other stuff.
NOW SOMEBODY GIVE ME A GAME!
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why is there even a forum here anyway? just go to neogaf and, uh, oh snap.
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The toast thread was a parody (more of Mully's agressive tone than the matter of harassment, at least that's how I perceived it), the other were just memetic crap spouted by people desperate for some attention jumping on the bandwagon. They were just boring and took half the page.
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Mine was serious too, hate mondays (though wednesdays too now).
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Well if it was you picked the worst possible time and words for it :x
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No descriptive bias at all in your "perception" of Mully's awareness-raising thread as "aggressive"...
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I never said her thread was agressive, just that her tone was (not just in that thread either, I find her agressive in general on this site - that's not to be taken as criticism, I don't really have anything against her, it's just how I perceive things). How exactly is that descriptive bias?
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Because, perhaps without intending to, you're doing exactly what many other people do when they describe women who speak up: they use words like bossy, abrasive, strident, and (your choice) aggressive; other classics are to label women as emotional and irrational when they raise objections.
You don't seem to be a person of ill-will, but it is frustratingly stereotypical that someone who's bringing attention to an important issue has something as subjective as her "tone" described as aggressive.
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Her tone didn't invalidate what she said. The issue is indeed important. That's why I wish her tone was more neutral - whenever you try to point something important to other people, agressiveness doesn't help your point, it hampers it. Whether you're a man or woman, you're going to face opposition if you present your arguments that way.
If it's indeed a subjective thing and I just saw agression where there wasn't (which is possible, communication errors happen all the time), how would you describe her tone yourself (or, better, if she reads this message, how would she describe it herself)?
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When you read what someone writes online, all you really do is voice what they have written in your head and that usually leads to your interpretation of how the other person may have said something. There have been more than enough times when people interpret what I've written as if I was mad, upset, sad, mean even though that wasn't the case at all.
I don't know how to explain this but I've noticed that when someone doesn't agree with something someone else has written they often get defensive and then perceive the other person's statement as something like a personal attack which then, of course, makes that person sound a lot angrier and meaner in their head. Sure, there's always a chance that they were angry or meant to "sound" like that when they wrote their statement but personally, I think it's a mistake to interpret anything written in any sort of way because you simply don't know unless you're actually talking to and are able to listen to them. Same applies when someone agrees with someone's statement. They might perceive it as really nice compared to someone who disagrees or is neutral.
Not sure if any of this makes sense but it's late/early and can't English well right now. Time to get some sleep.
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It's proven that humans tend to look for things they agree with and dismiss everything else. It's also reason why it's so hard to like convince people that evolution is true. You can shove tons of evidences, but skeptics will just dismiss them as otherwise it'd destroy their world of view. And no one want that.
That's why if you see some message: 1) someone who don't like author will look for bad things to not like author more and see them as attacks on them 2) people who don't have any emotional connection with message will move along 3) people who like author / agree with statement will like author more. Same goes when someone has little self-confidence, they will look for things that look like attack on them / making fun of them. Etc.
That's why when I get angry or sad after reading someone's response, or feel like someone was shitty or attacking - I take few deep breaths, maybe go to do something else and re-read message later. To check if my reaction was caused by my own bias or someone really behaved like dick.
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I don't disagree with what she wrote (since I've had to experience that kind of stuff myself) but I know that I didn't like her at first when I came across her posts (even though I'm OK with her right now, despite being annoyed at her reactions now and then), so it might have played a role in how I viewed her tone. The number of people describing her as agressive in the thread probably didn't help either.
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I had to look up the term, I read "orrery" at first and was completely befuddled.
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Weirdly enough "cantakerous" evokes me some kind of portmanteau between "cancer" and "tank", and then I picture a tank with cannons and treads growing everywhere, which would be kind of useless but somewhat awesome.
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You think people would learn after that shithole neogaf just imploded.
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This is why we should have a 'cineclub' or a 'cineforum' and talk about pretty stuff
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Odd place to bring that up. the world ain't gonna meet you halfway.
you brought up the idea, but not how or where it would be implemented.
if we were able to change a poll. one thread would likely be enough.
As a group, there aren't enough movie enthusiasts to have 2 related steam groups.
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Come on. 1 million users (accounts at least). Statiscally speaking there has to be.
I believe it have most to do with awareness and context. Theres many dead to zombie steam groups about games and many that are 'alive' are so artificially with events, anouncements, pretty much marketing and pr tactics with half activitie being newcommers that won't keep posting...
The reason might just be because they're errr gaming, rather then uninterested.
I can see something like a topic on movies thriving and living long because here, despite people coming to enter GAs, theres active users in the forum because they like the forum/community. Frequent posters and random ones would be here already in forum mood so to say, otherwise they wouldn't have clicked 'discussions'. SG doens't have social media things like subscribing to discussions and being prompted like steam tries- so pretty much the entire forum userbase are willing posters.
So maybe a topic or seies of instead of groups.
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Since this is not in any form a government of any sort, they're pretty much free to decide what happens here. It's not censorship if there's no connection to the state.
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If everyone would stop making random threads and keep it about deals, bundles and giveaways this would be my favorite site.
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The very problem with some threads that were closed now and a while ago is that they were premeditated and tailor made to mock, troll, egg on, trigger and flame certain SG users either openly or in a gift rapt, camouflaged and hidden agenda package.
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Mullys thread about that issue is still there and that's fine and all that's really needed to discuss... I'm glad those half assed to do list threads by some "celebtiries" and the mockup-threads that both mainly seem to aim at causing shitstorms got closed, even though the mockups were at least kind of creative.
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are "parody" (some might call them mock) threads now not allowed anymore?
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Nothing of value was lost. And guess what, moderation includes censoring. Like when there's a topic, and the self-appointed white knights, trolls, copy-pasta jokers or feminazis appear and they all command us how not to tell THEM how to act. The forums weren't in shit state since god knows when , filled with obnoxious, personalized messages hidden more or less in various topics.
Fuck, people came back to the site after stating numerous times that they leave only to personally tell someone how despicable they are. Others got scared that the "vocal minority" of PYFW (Play Your Fucking Wins) threatens them and hoarded, never touched collection of the games aand personally beg to cg that he shouldn't let this, after the same person had underhanded attacks against others for months, while posing as a victim.
Again others use the site as their personal diary in their teenage angst.
Again others feel like they are the perfect person to lacture ALL the males about how they should not overgeneralize the females into ALL the females.
While not every single topic, but every 3rd or 4th was about this. Attacking others, complaining about imagined attacks before anything could happen, bitching and mocking others. Not even mention the horrible selfishness and general lack of understanding of maths/ the world not orbiting around individual users regarding the changes of the point system. " i'm fine, so everyone is fine as well" which is also a recurring theme about the comments of the street harassment topic and the ones... it inspired.
Having a forum and the option to post to it is not a right, it's a priviledge, and so many of you misuse it under the cover of "free speech". And what about the rights of others, who don't want to be a part of a community / site where people try to oppress eachother in the name of freedom from both sides by yelling louder than the other? Why always others have to put up with your tirades and obnoxious presentation of your ideas, while you can shriek censorship, bias and all kinds of imagined reasons when they start a proper arguement or give a normal response? Why do you stomp of the "rights" of others that you so vehemently demand for yourself? Same with the respect.
Grow a thicker skin? Fuck off. Grow up. Accept yourself because you'll spend your remaining days with you. Don't try to convert everyone, and don't take different options as personal attacks because you aren't your favourite game, or your religion, gender or anything. Also if you have mental problems, get in contact with an expert, and in the meanwhile at least ASK instead of complaining. There's way bigger difference between " I hate every single of you cunts" and " I feel shit, I hate being around/in connect with people, wtf can I do?" than one would think at a glance, considering the reactions.
Or in short: Support shouldn't suspend/close because of topic. But they should because of style of presentation.
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Summed up all i would say.
+1
Its all about presentation, tone... id also say direction- even a good topic in good tone can derail (everywhere on the internet and IRL) and when things derail thats good prerrogative to armamodgedon the topic to oblivion.
Ive seen one of those topics. Made one sort of neutral post trying to bump with something other then flaming bs fighting to see if the trend stopped but nope. Im sure i wasn't the only one. When flames go up they turn those still thinking rationally andor with their emotions in control away- all thats left is a escalating snowball of shitstorm that never ends well. Like a blackhole of bad mouthing with sides with 0 interest in even trying to understand the other generating more blacklists per hour then GAs, the whole point.
Why let derailed and inflamatory topics live? To burn more people?
Mods were right because of that alone. Im against censorship but ive been in enought foruns (and were a mod on 2) for way too many years (seriously, too long and foruming too much) and ive seen policies of less restriction at work- to the point: not working. Its just bad.
Cautionary tale: one of said foruns was a 2 decades old rpg forum that as time grew retained more and more entitled veterans keen on flaming topics. With time more and more reasonable left, i stepped down from moderation because i was tired and one of the owners decided to just let things happen.
The forum literally imploded in bickering and flames. By the end the few faithful were left abandoned after one such sequence of flaming derailed discussions burned and split the very mods and owners.
A 'no, just no please(closed topic)' policy would have kept it alive, like it did for so many years.
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Please pardon my language, Adam, but well.fucking.said.
This childish BS on the forums needs to stop. It's ruining people's time here.
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Well I don't have to put up with myself for the rest of my life. Cause I can kill myself.
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The rest of one's life is until death, regardless of the death's cause. People die if they are killed.
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It's super serious and heavy. It made me cry!
Although when it comes to anime I will cry at the drop of a hat. Seriously, I don't know what's wrong with me. I get attached to cartoons like my cat gets attached to cat nip.
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If mods want an end to those types of threads, then the "street harassment" thread should be gone too. It has no more place here than any of the others.
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And yet you were happy to enter my giveaway I made exclusively for that thread?
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Want me to remove my entry? I have no problem with it.
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I don't really care. Honest. It's more I find it funny that you admit to wanting the thread gone but still enter giveaways posted there. But I'm not kidding myself, I know you're far from the only person who thinks that way, you just happen to be the one person who I noticed explicitly saying it.
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Thing is I don't find those type of threads to be of any help here. Looked through that thread found nothing that made me care, except for your giveaway. There are a lot more important problems in the world than some broad being whistled on the street.
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No, because this is not a place for political or ideological debate / expression. And that seems to be more or less the "message" of the mods, since they have closed down most of those sorts of threads.
The one glaring exception is the "street harassment" thread. There should be a consistency in how policy is enforced.
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No, because this is not a place for political or ideological debate / expression.
That's not why those threads were closed.
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Unless i missed something, and some are mentioning it, the word attack (or mock), but the ones like for example the burn toast, that's only done as a "joke" (funny or not) i would not see that as attacking someone or calling out.
Calling out (also according to the site rules) is saying someone that broke a rule, like saying X has unredeemed won games, making a topic similar to someone elses (that hasn't broken any rules) if done in a civil manner (not calling that person an idiot or whatever) how is that attacking someone?
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As if your view that the street harassment thread should be closed isn't itself a political stance...
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A) It is not a political stance in any but the most broad of definitions of political (e.g. that any stance a human takes is a political one). On the contrary it is a stance that all political / ideological expression should be treated equally. You were all about equality the other day, as I remember.
B) Even if it was a political stance in some meaningful way (which it is not), I did not start a thread advocating for it. Thus I am not violating the principle I am advocating (and which the site mods seem to be following, save for that one exception).
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If it were a case of not being in the correct place, then simply moving it to "Off Topic" would suffice.
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I thought it was with rest of the crap, but clearly no. I think it's also falls in same category with others so should have been first to be shutdown...
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This is their forum, there is no censorship here, only what they do or don't allow. Nobody has any "rights" here to any freedom including freedom of speech. This is a site about video games, there are plenty of places to complain about whatever you want to complain about, how about we keep these forums on the subject of the site and leave the complaining to social media and people who actually care.
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"this is a site about video games" Yes, that's why this, with so many threads exist? https://www.steamgifts.com/discussions/off-topic
This site's main focus is about gifting games (first thing after all when you open it), the forums are a subpart of it, with subgenres and to say the least, with the weirdest topics created in offtopic. Neogaf that was for example a site about video games.
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To my mind, this is intended to be a moderated forum so "no censoring" is not an option - moderation automatically implies censorship. Obviously the mods have some degree of discretion in what they moderate, so the question is really only whether their decision was appropriate in this case.
Frankly, if you have a glut of threads with the same handful of people having the same angry conversations about something totally unrelated to the site, even if it wasn't a contentious subject it'd be wise to consider nipping it in the bud. Given the number of people obviously becoming more and more frustrated by the repetitive threads dominating the forum, I totally agree with the mod decision.
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Most of the gaming communities Ive been apart of, posts that are inflammatory or controversial involving religion, politics, sexual content, or identity politics werent allowed. Personally, Id be perfectly happy if those topics werent allowed here either, especially considering how they dont tend to stay very civil for very long, but thats just how I feel about it.
At the very least, we need an update to the guidelines so people can be perfectly clear on what is and isnt cool to be doing when they post.
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Sounds good on the surface, but how far do we go? I have seen threads about heavy metal where "Hail Satan!" was thrown around quite a bit. As someone that likes the occasional bit of heavy metal (especially for workouts), I can get behind this (have even found some very nice new jams this way). But technically comments like that involve religion, and could offend someone. Even if no one said, "Hail Satan!", could be that some song somewhere has "Hail Satan!" as lyrics. Or maybe a band participated in a movie and the movie had "Hail Satan!".
I have also seen gifs of "Make Steamgifts Great Again" that had a cat with a trump wig and lol'd... those might offend someone. Should we ban those?
There's tons of crap that's gonna offend someone somewhere... think people need to chill the fuck out, live and let live, and not get all upset about crap on a forum board. :-)
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How far it goes would be something for mods to decide when/if we ever get some clear guidelines. I wasnt suggesting we disallow those topics because someone might get offended, personally I dont care how offended someone is, but Im in favor of it because I think some of the recent threads proved just how well some of this community can handle not attacking each other when they disagree on a sensitive issue.
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Fair enough. I'm not against clearer guidelines; just don't want to lose "freedom of speech" on SG to avoid offending folks. :-)
FWIW, I had glanced through some of the "awareness" threads in question before... didn't follow them long but from what I had seen, nothing stood out that I felt was "attacking" Mully's original but can't really tell from typed text if you meant that seriously (community was well behaved) or sarcastically (they weren't). :-(
Honestly, I think most of the parody in those was related to the tone of the original feeling like it was address to the people actually doing the cat calling rather than nerdy folks on a gaming site, which implies that the readers are the ones actually doing it (even if connection was not something Mully intended). As I commented in that thread, I am a guy and I don't personally cat call / whistle. But as a guy/reader, I felt from the tone of that thread like I was being lumped in with the ones who did. I see both sides and I'm not upset at either. But I don't think either should be censored either unless something devolved to flaming after I stopped reading... that's a bit different.
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I was thinking about just letting it go, but i dunno.
So support closed down a bunch of threads from several people (like the harassment ones), first of all i respect that and it was getting a bit out of hand maybe (same with the #metoo) on the other hand are "parody" (some might call them mock) threads now not allowed anymore? It's also kind of censoring.
But i also question the reason for it being staff being swamped by user tickets for it to come to this, were such a large amount really bothered by it, so much even to send in a support ticket?
And to quote a reply from staff "Not only will this force those who have taken part some time to pause and reflect on their actions.., but also allow the site to heal from the division that has erupted from it."
Political ones are already avoided, now this, lately i feel there isn't already much other talk left lately then bundle information, giveaways, and some group recruitment.
Also taking the point about Mully and her past suspensions, reminded me on how there should be better written guidelines, something CG said months ago would be made.
As it comes down too now, every support member now handles all sorts of different situations as they see fit, and some even getting different treatments.
Clearer guidelines could avoid alot of bad stuff going for the recent (months?) on the forum, in the end we do all want the same thing a peaceful nice place to hang out in.
*I said before noone afaik was suspended over things, but apparently someone was, and yes we don't know the motiviations for staff, but it did happen some got suspended while others not.
** Also some claim to talk about it being a game site, and it should be restricted to that, but there has always been loads of off topic threads beside "parody" ones, then people should also say that off topic needs to disappear (which is another discussion).
Should there be no censoring, to a limit, or you prefer a "clean" forum, opinions? And please keep it a bit civil.
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