I believe that something seems fishy here. All of a sudden he reveals a bunch of secrets and then desperately looking for a hideout. Wouldn't it be more logical to do it other way around?
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It is impossible for a government to have treason against itself. Treason refers to a betrayal of the governement by an individul/group.
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Good clarification. However, it is interesting how people feel this is a betrayal on the part of the government toward its own people.
Frankly, this shit is nothing unexpected, so I'm amused by the indignation. At least I haven't seen much about the government misusing the information. With other governments, there is rampant misuse of such information collected and resulting action taken against citizens, which is much, much worse that the US. I think.
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What I'm worried about is the future. The government only sees "policy" not "law"
Sure, the people in office right now aren't misusing the information, but that doesn't stop the misuse in the future, and since the tech and infrastructure is already available, and it is obvious the populous doesn't care, then...
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You obviously haven't been looking hard enough. The IRS has been specifically targeting Tea Party, Libertarian and other political groups for their investigations. The Justice Department has been collecting the phone records of journalists. Their are leaks of plans to implement political concentration camps in the US. Not to mention the scores of brutal raids, attacks and unlawful imprisonment of numerous innocent civilians over bullshit charges (ex. possessing prescribed medication).
You can't expect a government to not wield its powers any way it can. If they can misuse it, they will. And they are. If it wasn't meant to be misused they could easily have admitted freely that PRISM existed, even if they would not divulge any details.
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I could be wrong, but a lot of that stuff isn't related to the NSA's activities.
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haven't been misusing....
the whitehouse blog asked people to report emails and names of anybody spreading negative information about obamacare (i don't know why nobody else remembers the email list)
and the irs was auditing opposing political groups and trying to black mail them into giving donor lists so they can also audit them(and considering thats what they were going to impeach nixon for(stealing democrat donor lists and allegedly planning to audit them) this should be a far far bigger deal than it is being covered as).
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It is possible however for individuals or groups of individuals within that government to violate their own Constitution, which is effectively a form of treason against the nation.
Fourth Amendment: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized
Snowden is a hero for bringing to light the Obama administrations betrayal of the American people. One of the fundamental postulates of representative democracy is that government should be fully accountable to the people. That the rulers are servants of the nation and not masters thereof. Too bad that in the last century congress and the courts have been bought and paid for, and has been developing into a totalitarian, destructive engine of fear and oppression for a thoroughly corrupt international banking cartel. Snowden's leak shouldn't have come as a surprise. The US was officially an Orwellian police state ever since the Patriot Act was passed.
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The problem with democracy is that people are stupid.
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It's not that. The problem with democracy is that people can be bribed.
Democracy is systemically corrupt. Democracy has failed. The 2008 economic crash, and the great depression as well were not the result of market failures. Truly free markets would have easily prevented the crises or recovered from them. No, it was inept governmental monetary and fiscal policies that created and perpetuated both economic downturns. The GD through a massive monetary contraction followed by Roosevelt's disastrous New Deal, the '08 housing crash and current debt crises through artificially low interest rates and perpetual 'stimulus'. Governments love to claim responsibility for good times but will blame anyone else for the bad, and then present themselves as the solution. It may seem unbelievable at first, but government can not, is not the solution to the world's problems. They are almost invariably connected to the source of them.
Democracy is even worse than monarchy in one respect: It's so easy to twist the responsibility on the public. To turn blame on the people for having voted con-men and frauds into power. And in a way, that line of thinking is totally correct.
"Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time." - Winston Churchill
*Big Business -loves- regulation. They can easily absorb regulation and intervention costs that would prevent smaller competitors from entering/staying in the market. Costs they can then easily just pass on to consumers. Ex: SOPA/CISPA.
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No. The solution is for humanity to wake up. To cast aside the myths of the past, of the inherent weakness of Man and the need for Government to correct it. Government is violent, coercive, deceitful and unnecessary. History has time and again proven this without fail.
We don't need government to build roads, protect the poor, educate the young, or defend the borders. We don't need government to tell us what is right and what is wrong. We don't need a government to protect us or settle our disputes with one another. We don't need a USSR to provide to us bread and shoes. We don't need a Rome to enslave us to tend fields and build wonders. We don't need an America to allow us to pursue happiness.
We can do all this ourselves. We actually have done every one of these already at various points in time and space. But never all at once in unison. We just need to open our eyes, stand up, and embrace the better parts of our natures. We abhor violence, deceit and cruelty, it is in our nature and in our advantage to do so. So why do we accept it when a higher, unaccountable powers commit violence and cruelty on our behalf? On us?
Extinction is not an acceptable option. Neither is continued enslavement to self-made gods and kings. But I think it's well past due that we gave Anarchism a shot.
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True enough. We will always need protection and conflict resolution. But that doesn't mean we need territorially monopolistic institutions providing them. Law is a service like any other, and I think it's entirely possible for the demand for law to be better satisfied by a free market.
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Ah ... I remember what it was like to be naive. Good times.
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"The government by concept has to treat people equally as it's the over-ruler (pardon the term if it doesn't fit, not a native English speaker), private institutes treat their customers equally. See the problem?"
No I don't, actually. And the 'government as over-ruler' is itself an abhorrent concept. As I mentioned earlier: in a democracy the government is supposed to be the nation's servant, not its master. And government has to treat people equally? Yeah, good luck with that.
And the "justice for profit" model is just one proposed solution. Private ~= for-profit. And there have been private law models used in the past. Medeival Ireland and Iceland, and republican Rome are some of the examples I'm aware of. Hell, private arbitration and courts already exist in our society. I once attended a disciplinary hearing at a professional association. It was basically a private court, and it worked just fine.
"Not to mention of course that these firms would inherit most of the current government's problems, in slightly different forms. Corruption? You'll get monopolies and duopolies. Invading your privacy? Oh yes they'll do. Hell, many corporations already do with governments forcing regulation, now imagine if they were unleashed?"
So you're advocating monopolies, because anything else would create monopolies? Funny thing about monopolies, they're actually inherently usustainable if competition is allowed. There's always a way to legitimately undermine them. See: Herbert Henry Dow vs the Bromine Cartel. Monopolies can only exist long-term with the help of government, through anti-competitive regulation, subsidy, exclusive partnerships, etc.
Privacy? Just look at Microsoft vs Sony. The mandatory Kinect and revalation of the PRISM connection was one of the primary reasons people flocked to support the PS4. Again, it's government action that protects and even encourages privacy abuse. In a free market, if a firm screws over customers, there's the chance for a competitor to not do so and thus claim market share. It's self-destructive to consistently cheat others.
And government regulation only makes problems worse. Always has. Minimum wage laws knock out the bottom rungs of the economic ladder. Illegalisation of 'immoral' activity only escalates the scale and evil of those activities (see: War on Drugs). Regulations add costs that smaller businesses can't afford but big business can absorb without issue. Bailouts perpetuate moral hazard instead of correcting it.
The initiation of violence can never be used to achieve good. The myth that it can is the only justification for monopoly government.
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That is a very narrow view of the situation. His actions also put the ENTIRE country in a bad position with other nations. I'd say the damage significantly outweighs any debatable benefit he's introduced.
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Are you joking? The US government spies on everyone and you're upset cuz the USA loses standing with other countries after it comes out? Guess what, the government fucking represents the people, so when it fucks up, the people fuck up.
Also, do you think we shouldn't know that our communications are tapped just so that the USA can save face?
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Um, don't you think most governments spy on each other to varying degrees? But a publicly outing? That doesn't do anyone any good. It basically opens the door for escalation. So I'm not saying what the NSA was doing was right, but telling the world opens up another can of worms that puts US citizens at risk. I'm saying that looking at his actions as purely heroic is a very shortsighted thing. It's much more complicated than that.
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Sure they do, and it should all be put out in the open (guess I should mention here that I utterly despise any kind of subterfuge) and whatever will happen, will happen.
And so fucking what if it puts US citizens at risk (you're not the only ones out there you know). If they let their government run rampant like this, they deserve all the hate they receive for it.
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I don't understand what your core issue is. The NSA project was quite broad, so what specifically has you so bothered?
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I'm gonna guess that it is because it targets (even inadvertently) regular civilians as well, and can easily be misused.
Plus it is in the hands of people who are already corrupt.
You gotta remember (in your posts it seems like you don't realize this) this project wasn't for spying on foreign governments, it was for spying on potential terrorists, and captures a lot of private, law abiding citizens in the crossfire.
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Eh, I get that. But it's not like the government gives a shit about your average person. They're finding ways to cull through the mass of data to identify potential threats. I am okay with this. Anyone that isn't ... one can't pick and choose when to have the government promote freedom and when to promote security. It just doesn't work like that.
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The government CAN commit treason. The Iran Contra scandal was treason (on the part of Oliver North and Ronald Reagan). The Trail Of Tears was treason (on the part of Andrew Jackson). These men acted as the government, yet disobeyed the orders of the government (Congress, in both cases.)
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I think the government could betray itself. if they go against the entire framework of what they are(Ex if a democracy became a monarchy, if a monarchy became communism, if communism got so bribe focused it became capitalism and the king was so wishywashy he put everything to an unofficial vote and then went with that and eventually the tradition become so expected he was forced to declare democracy i donno)
and even if the exact letter makes it impossible to charge the government overall you could still say individuals/groups were treasonous(and theres no upper limits on group size,so all you need is one or two guys not with them in the government to make the charges.(but i guess they could charge him with it too and if they outnumbered him...is accusing the rest of the government of treason grounds for a treason charge? :p)
like I think Caesar was probably declared a traitor until he executed anybody who said that and then so were the guys who stabbed him.
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+1
(personally I don't really get it, he basically told us stuff most assumed was happening anyway, and deserved to know considering the huge fucking deal it was when bush wanted to specifically wiretap international calls made to a terrorist's phone, and this is that but also domestic and everybody, and this is probably unconstitutional search anyway) and nobody wanted to hang the wikileaks guy when he actually leaked stuff that probably got some people killed so why.....)
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The fact that he applied for the job with the express purpose of getting access to confidential information with the objective of sharing it makes him an ass.
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He didn't. He got the job for normal reasons, then felt bad about what he was doing.
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He admitted in an interview with The South China Morning Post in Hong Kong that he sought out the job because of the access to information.
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I wasn't aware of that.
That doesn't make him an ass though, it just makes him a spy.
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Well either way, one who simply wants the job for information can't get a high level security job like that very easily. He had to have some credentials and done a good job.
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The mods might not like this thread. From the FAQ:
Please avoid creating topics for political discussion.
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I'm just wondering why more people don't care about the NSA's spying on people.
Sure, the people in office at this time aren't misusing it, but what about the future?
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Because it's nothing new. The NSA and is comparable agencies in other countries have ALWAYS conducted intelligence gathering. It's what they're supposed to do. Plus, it's not like the NSA was trying to spy on regular people. They were gathering mass amounts of information and filtering it to identify people they should be tracking and monitoring.
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They have pics of my GF naked if they store such info for more than a year. (She loves using the word "Boom" for no reason, and if the NSA has any intelligence that is a flagged word.)
I have no love for them or what they do.
Doesn't matter if that was their intention or not. Doesn't matter if they are using it only to look for "terrorists". Doesn't matter if the American populous thinks "I have nothing to hide. They don't care that I'm sexting the chick at work!" The only thing that matters is...
The tech and infrastructure for a surveillance state exists, and someone is gonna get in power and misuse it. Especially since most Americans are dismissive of it.
The possibility for that shouldn't exist at all. I'd rather everyone I love die in a terrorist attack and I get gravely wounded (That would be more torturous for me than me just dying) than my child or grand child or great grand child have to live in Oceania (Was that the name of the country from 1984? I can't remember)
I personally don't mind if the governments of the world play their spy games on each other, but they are looking at the emails of people who have nothing to do with anything, just because of a few words.
And one day, someone might decide "Oh, this guy is a drug dealer. We can use this email or text message he sent to take down him and his buyers." and then you've fallen down a slippery slope.
*Note: I am an American with an Aussie girlfriend, and have talked with friends in the middle east online through message boards, and emails. I have without a doubt used their trigger words on occasion, probably often, and have made no attempt to hide my discontent with the government in the past. I am definitely on their watch list, even if only "This useless guy comes up in our system a lot.".
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I'd say i'm mixed.
Firstly, I'm not from the US, nor do I have a devotion to the country. But borders need to be protected and to defend a country, liberty is encroached on.
I do not like the idea that the NSA would have looked at my Facebook page, which after looking at the key words used, I would have been flagged multiple times (I have recently moved to Mexico, talked about cartel problems along with drug issues in the US and Mexico, all of which would have been flagged,) however I do understand it.
I honestly do not think they would care about my opinion on Mexican cheese (far too bland), but I also don't like that my information may be sitting on a server in some top secret data center in Colorado.
Edward Snowden didn't release the information anonymously. He wanted the attention and now this attention is actually replacing the secrecy and rights debate that the world needs.
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Borders may need protecting, but the US's spending on its military is fucking ludicrous. Four times the runner-up, China. This, from a country that already guarantees the right to gun ownership to civilians with the intent that they could mobilize into militias for local defence. From a country that is the dominant nuclear power. From a country that systemically attacks other nations directly or indirectly. Defending borders is not the goal. The US armed forces and intelligence agencies are not America's shield. They're its hammer.
A hammer they hold over everyone, not just their enemies.
Look, why are terrorists attacking the US/UK etc. in the first place? Because, believe it or not, it's not originally from fanatical religious devotion. It's because, hey, the strong-arm tactics of the US and her allies all over the world are pissing people off. 9/11 was a retaliation, not an attack.
Oh shit, you got me on a ramble about terrorism when they're actually just a scapegoat for increased government intervention and power. Tell me, if the threat passes tomorrow, do you expect the US to give up its surveillance programs and 'security' measures? Or would you expect them to find a new bogeyman to protect you from?
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin
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well of course canadians would say that. You're waiting for us to drop our guard so you can sweep in from the north and annex us. I've heard this "the whole continent is america" bullshit. you're just trying to get us used to the idea of being part of canada. Admit it
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You got me. It's fucking cold up here, and we're really hankering for another great bonfire like the one back in 1814.
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(except you do have your own food. Canada has those kickass gravy cheese fries which america should steal for our own national food, and theres also maplesyrup and beer and for some reason the best delis I've been to)
and I like the cleaver cover of your flag. mapleleaf chosen to represent canada because nobody had any strong feelings one way or the other, selected because all involved felt it was wholly "meh"
What nation is going to conquer under the banner of "nobody cares enough to object to this right"? Canada, thats who.
The milk locus in their rvs are only your advance force, coming just a little more often and staying just a little longer each time. You illegally immigrate south to vote in our elections, knowing we're too focused with our eyes to the south to notice (and too caught up in misapplied political correctness to check citizenship even if you come in with a hockey jersey and demand to vote in french even though you speak perfect english) subtly changing our government to be so like your own most of our sheep won't even notice the transition. Obamacare was the first step but certainly not the last. You've taken over our media with most of our television shows staring produced or owned by canadians. I'm sure its Canada's influence to blame for us never actually setting English as our sole official language. I've seen your secret underground hive cities. I know of your plans. And I had a taxidriver tell me that americans were the root of all canada's problems and if we just stopped shipping guns to Quebec their streets would be even cleaner. A waitress claimed Pepsi was developed in canada tipping her hand that they plan on advancing as far south as newbern north carolina. I know why your cities are so clean and I know what TimHorton's is really a front for. And those $2 coins. And this fixation on england's queens, and that whole forced bilingual thing. Just the other day I got a mcDonald's hamburger and it had MAYONNAISE on it! mayonnaise! no ketchup! I'm on to you. You think you'll just steamroll south unopposed? I'll fight you off Red dawn style. We've got guns, we've got militias. Even if our own government can't be arsed to shrug off the reigns until its too late and they've become shackles. From the ashes of canadian aggression and the fall of america Cascadia shall rise! A free independent entity dedicated to repelling canadian moose riders and your spec ops skate equipped ice walkers and maintaining our sovereignty in the face of northern oppression
(kidding, it'll be the sovereign nation of Texas. The lone star, last bastion of America of old, beset on both sides from canada(america's former shadow who despite all your conquests shall never be more than Texas's 3 quart Stetson) to the north and the yellow bellied mexicans to the south).
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If you don't understand why he's a hero, or think what he did was anything other than righteous and GOOD, why don't you be a good little sheep and go buy an Xbox One so they can bug your house and collect data on us all, and extend whatever current-day offshoot of Project Mockingbird they're using to fuck around with our minds.
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It's never that simple, and I think you should know better. I don't think any of us is in a position to know absolutely why all high-level decisions are made in the government, especially related to national security. Is that a somewhat scary and potentially dangerous thing? Yes it is, and every person in the world should be conscious of that. However, there are good reasons for this too.
Information is power. Making all information publicly available is like handing weapons over to your enemy because you want to have a fair fight. It may be noble in a way, but it limits the chances that you and yours remain safe and secure. Without having all of the information, not to mention the experience and education, that world leaders have, we are hardly in a sound position to absolutely say what they are doing is wrong, let alone the kind of evil that you (and perhaps more so others) seem to imply it is.
I believe that Snowden was in, at best, a marginally better position than we are to make that kind of decision. What he did was stupid and reckless. Real heroes don't try to be heroes. Good leaders whether in the military or in civilian organizations like the police force or fire brigade do not encourage that kind of behavior because it all too often not only endangers yourself but also those around you and even those you think you're saving.
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Please, google some about what Project Mockingbird is / was. Also, Project Artichoke. And how about some MKULTRA. What he did is give insight into how the govt. is harvesting data on everyone and their dead mother. You're still under the mistaken assumption that the govt. is there to serve the people, when in reality, SimonSays' ocmments and howell2010's comments sum up the current situation and the probable future far better - especially this comment from SimonSays:
"Snowden is a hero for bringing to light the Obama administrations betrayal of the American people. One of the fundamental postulates of representative democracy is that government should be fully accountable to the people. That the rulers are servants of the nation and not masters thereof. Too bad that in the last century congress and the courts have been bought and paid for, and has been developing into a totalitarian, destructive engine of fear and oppression for a thoroughly corrupt international banking cartel. Snowden's leak shouldn't have come as a surprise. The US was officially an Orwellian police state ever since the Patriot Act was passed."
I won't reiterate their comments further, it's kind of pointless when I can just agree with the things they say and state that I would say the exact same thing. The govts. around the world have become nothing more than agents and enablers for corrupt and deceitful corporations such as Monsanto, and international banking cartels.
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Omg finally a topic on him! He's a hero because even though Edward gave away top secret info from the NSA it was a righteous thing to do since the NSA was hacking into the China's mobile phones and everyone's emails :3
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A hero for sure. The govt was doing something shady behind everyone else's backs. Their excuse is that it's for our safety but there has to be a better and less dodgy way to do it than that. I think what he did was right. I think in this day and age it's pretty uncommon for people to have a huge amount of faith in their government, to think that they truly are doing the best they can for us, etc. Yet people don't hesitate to....simply not care. No one cares that the government does dodgy stuff because no one can do anything about it. Snowden did something about it. He might not have been able to stop it but he put things in motion.
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First off I'm always a bit suspicious if someone is willing to completely destroy his life for a 'good cause'. If it would have been a matter of life and death, like Nazis killing Jews in the Third Reich, or if he would have been harmed personally, like being a Jew in the Third Reich, I would have understood it. But turning a good life (he had a well paid job on Hawaii after all...not the worst life one can live) into a huge pile of crap only to tell random people that the government is spying on them? Sounds to me like it's either about money or attention whoring.
That said I don't think it's anything new really. And I also think it needs to be done, it's like saying we don't need nuclear weapons because they're evil. Of course we'd all be better off without nuclear weapons, but if only one country had them it would destroy the balance of power. You constantly read about Chinese hacking attempts, where they steal technology or attack government servers. You just have to react to that (not only talking about the Chinese, just an example). Every modern country does it. I doubt the technology is used to harass regular citizens, there are laws in place that prevent this kind of abuse anyway. At least where I live.
Sure, it's sad, but it's just the way things go.
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They are hacking regular citizens, not just foreign governments.
Plus, the US government doesn't consider those "laws" as Law. It is just their policy, and they can change their policy.
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I don't get why people call him a hero. It makes me wonder about your definition. For example a hero is someone who enters a burning house to rescue people trapped inside. Or someone is willing to give his life for the sake of someone else. For me, that is a real hero.
But Snowden? Nope. He just revealed what everyone already knew anyways. And if you didn't knew you were quite naive and living under a rock. It's not only the USA, it's everywhere.
Don't get me wrong, what he did was good and necessary. But calling him a hero is a bit over the top.
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"Or someone is willing to give his life for the sake of someone else."
So ummm. You realise his life is over, right? He's gonna be on the run for the rest of his life. If he doesn't get extradited or straight out abducted by the CIA, he's gonna disappear mysteriously in 2 or 3 years or whenever the US thinks people won't notice anymore. He. Is. Fucked.
And you think he did this for himself?
So by your own definition; hero.
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You watch too many movies. Even after WW2 people who worked for the Nazis could live a happy live in South America. And just look at Assange now. He is still a human being with human rights and the USA won't be stupid enough to do the things you said. Again: You watch too many movies.
I didn't say he made this for himself. All I'm saying is that people shouldn't praise him like some kind of messiah. If you didn't know the spying was going on, you were living under a rock. His moves were necessary, but far from heroic. Mandela is a hero, the Scholl siblings were heroes, Stauffenberg, Schindler. But Snowden is just someone who finally had the guts to speak up. And as people world wide are mostly cowards and love to be blind to the truth they praise him like he's god.
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Funny things is, considering that most of the average Americans (or anyone else who should care about this) possess the attention span of a goldfish, whole thing will be easily forgotten and swept under the rug by the time Kim Kardashian gets a new baby
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Yeah it's both funny and sad. But people in other places of the world aren't that different unfortunately. Let me only remind you on the whole KONY 2012 thingy.
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Assange is trapped inside a 4X8 in a embassy where he lives about one step shy of someone in a federal prison. He has lost almost all freedom, all freedom of movement, and he is under watch 24/7 so that if he does decide to leave, he'll be snatched up immediately and whisked away to someplace with no windows where he'll be questioned indefinitely and never officially charged.
He's still human, alright, because he's breathing. But rights? Not many of those left. I'd say that's a pretty good example of what happens when you share information.
I'm not sure if Snowden is a "hero" by common definition, but ACorpse is right about him having sacrificed anything resembling a life.
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My bad. I was still thinking about drones as a CIA controlled system, whereas they've (only recently, and only "mostly") been transferred to DoD.
I doubt it'd be a military drone though. I believe the military can't be used against US citizens. So it'd be the CIA afterall. :D
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The burning house was one example. I gave others too, on the level of Winton. Not in that very post but in another one. Are you trying to say Snowden is like Winton now? Seriously, if you have to focus on verbatim and can't read between the lines then stop right there and please go troll somewhere else if you feel like wasting your time. Or even better: Educate yourself. I for one surely won't waste my time with your crap anymore.
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You've gotta be the one trolling here. Heroes AREN'T just people who charge into a burning house to pull out grandma and/or the kids. It's the quiet, unassuming types who say to themselves "Hey, this isn't right." and then actually do something about it, rather than shrugging like 99% of the planet and saying "Eh, not my problem.". This guy is going to pay the price for his desire to keep his givernment (yes, HIS givernment, YOUR government (assuming you're American)) honest. What the US is doing is flat out WRONG, and if you're of the opinion that the tireless "Well they started it." excuse is sufficient then you're also wrong. Being the good guys means holding yourself to higher standards than those who you consider to be the bad guys.
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Yes. I like to use early Quaker abolitionists in England as a good example of both this and the fact that religion is a tool that can be used for good (usually in response to its horrors).
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"It makes me wonder about your definition."
According to the Merriam-Webster dictionary here are the definitions for hero. Your first example would probably fit under "one who shows great courage", but your example of "someone [who] is willing to give his life (no females allowed?) doesn't seem fit as well.
As others have stated, Snowden could also be classed as "one who shows great courage" so I see no reason to try and say he shouldn't be classed as a hero. Quite frankly, it seems as though it's who you may have the warped perspective on the definition while the rest of us are just going by the dictionary.
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You're right. But in all honesty stuff like this (not only with the word "hero") is mostly just a convention rather than a logical explanation of the term. This is why I stated "for me, this is a real hero". The reason I don't like the term hero used for him is because I just can't see Snowden on the same level as the people I mentioned before.
Again, I have respect for what he did. It was important. But a hero? Definitely not for me.
Oh and about heroes not being allowed to be female: English isn't my native language. It should be quite obvious though that I didn't mean to classify a hero by HIS/HER gender so it's a bit nitpicky to jump on that don't you think? =) That brings me to another of those stupid conventions of languages that lack logic...about terms having male and female forms...it got worse when feminists suddenly felt offended by it...as if we didn't have important issues to deal with. But that's another story.
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He, his, and him can all be used as gender neutral pronouns and only until recently that they were considered the "correct" gender neutral pronoun to use. afaik it's not considered politically incorrect to use the word "he" (or him/his) as a gender neutral pronoun, even if words like "they/them" and "one" are used more commonly nowadays
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Yeah, seriously, how dare anyone have a different connotative understanding of a word than I do.
"He just revealed what everyone already knew anyways. And if you didn't knew you were quite naive and living under a rock. It's not only the USA, it's everywhere."
If everyone knew it, then it probably wouldn't be happening.
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Mods, this thread should probably be closed before it descends into hell itself.
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Since when are you the voice of reason? The world must be coming to an end! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!
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Pretty sure this could be classified as a political thread, which the FAQ discourages.
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My comment was more because cryonseris is usually running around like an ADHD case and getting suspended by the mods. :)
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I would say something, but I don't want the NSA tracking me more than they probably are already.
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A word of advice, don't believe everything you ehar without proof. Media paints bad pictures on people all the time. Im not trying to defend his actions, but you can't confirm this statement is true with proof, so be wary.
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Trying to not getting arrested for releasing information the American public needs to know?
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What are your thoughts about this man?
Do you believe he is a hero, or a traitor?
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