To prevent abuse of Steam keys, all they need to do is set a limit of 1 or 2 Steam keys per PayPal account. Alternatively, give out Steam keys randomly, with each 5 cents paid improving your chance of getting keys by 1%. That way the amount you'd have to pay to hoard a lot of keys would stay the same, but more paying customers would be able to enjoy the game on the platform of their choice. I'm not saying anyone owes customers a Steam key for less than $5, but "abuse" is a weak excuse unless all ways of helping honest customers without aiding traders and resellers have been fully explored.
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I agree that what Be Mine did was stupid, but I don't think the uproar would have been the same if 50% had got PAM as a DRM-free download and 50% as a Steam key. If you tell people up-front what you're doing and why, they might understand. Also, bear in mind there was no way of getting a guaranteed copy of either PAM or Dream Aquarium by paying a certain amount.
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Limits per PayPal account is also a bad idea - I like to buy the games for my friends, too. And if the restriction didn't apply to gift copies, then steam code harvesters would just send them to Mailinator accounts (or websites with a similar concept).
Of course, I won't be buying this bundle for my friends, nor any one that costs $5 for a Steam key. I just plain can't afford to spend that much per friend every other freaking week.
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Is this Humble Bundle 7? If so I'm a bit disappointed :/
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Ah k good, I thought I read that the two android bundles were HiB 5 and HiB 6 respectively, so the next one would be 7.
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it is better than humble mojam, which i bought (because i liked the idea behind it)
it is worse than hib4, which i didn't buy (because i didn't know it existed)
i have machinarium and sarmost and run them drm free, which is what i try to do when i can, even if i have the key
what will i do with this? maybe buy for a gift...
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My two cents about Humble indie Bundle.
Go back to numbered bundles. I'm not sure if HiB 5,6 and 7 are actually numbered, but ever since HiB started "mislabeling" these bundles I always get happy that we'll be getting a bundle good for all types of customers. In no way I'm saying this bundle is bad since I have yet to play any of the game, I'm saying that the numbered bundles brought variety that every player enjoyed. For example HiB 4 is a great example of this. We got a Shoot Em' Up(Jamestown), a Puzzle game(NightSky), a platformer(Cave Story), a strategy game (Gratuitous Space Battle), a rhythm game (Bit.Trip Runner), an action game (Shank) and a difficult game for those who looking for a challenge (Super Meat Boy). This bundle only brings from what I've seen all Point-And-Click games. I'm not saying that the genre is bad either but variety is always nice.
Stop adding old games that have been in previous bundles to the new one. This defeats the purpose of previous bundles in my idea. I mean yeah it's nice that people who have not gotten an earlier bundle due to whatever reason can get to play these amazing games, but what if the person the person already bought the previous bundle? I know this is a charity and in most charities you don't get anything back, but the Humble indie Bundle is different. I hate that I missed out on a few bundles and that's one of the things I like about it. But what if in the future I purchased a few different Humble indie Bundles and realized I already bought half or maybe all the games in Humble indie Bundle x? I'd be pissed off.
And again it is a Charity that gives back so we (and by "we" I mean all the customer and the HiB Team) both should win right?
Also (again) this Humble bundle isn't a bad one since people will surely love these games, but as stated about this is my opinion.
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What you said is right: their latest bundles are lacking variety, so they have no appeal to those who don't love the specific genre or developer the bundle is dedicated to. Besides, having them add previously featured games in these special bundles is getting annoying. I hope they release a good HIB5 that turns out to be as awesome as HIB4, although I'm not really happy with the pricing... Getting above average for extra games just got rather expensive compared to what we used to pay, many users will be complaining about this.
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All I hear is this:
"HERP DERP I can't buy 5 games for $0.01 anymore! X.("
"HERP DERP I have to pay more so the games get added to my Steam account and the number of games on my Steam account is directly proportional to the size of my penis! X.( WAAAH WAAAAH!!"
Rage hard you pathetic children, rage hard while you can, for one day you will be men, or dead children.
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please be openminded and think about all the forum readers who had already their penis cut away or never actually had one
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Reposting from a reply to another person who said the exact same thing:
That's a rather low way of marginalizing people who disagree with you.
Are there people who just want almost-free games? Yeah (I'd argue that nearly anyone on STEAM GIFTS could be fairly called that) but that doesn't mean anyone who complains about the rising prices (objective fact) and falling quality (subjective opinion, but a fairly common one) is just being cheap.
Like it or not, Humble Bundle did not become famous for selling good games. We already know places where we can buy good games, it's called Steam (as well as numerous competitors, of course, but everyone on this site has Steam in common). Humble Bundle became famous for selling good games cheap. Now they've gotten rid of both the "good" part and the "cheap" part and their former customers are rightly upset about this.
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"That's a rather low way of marginalizing people who disagree with you."
You say "low", I say "accurate". I like free games, hence why I'm here. I don't stamp my foot and complain when I don't win something.
The whole point/aim of the Humble Bundles was to raise money for charity and to support Indie developers. That they became famous for "selling good games cheap[sic]" has nothing to do with them. The games were only ever sold cheaply because the people buying them were cheap. If those people want to complain about a minimum price of $1 (other bundles, this one is still available for 1 cent), or a $5 minimum for a steam key, that's great for them but the amount of rage and hair-pulling going on is ridiculous. I call them "pathetic children" because pathetic little children whine when they don't get their way. If my local microbrewery puts my favourite beer up by $1, I don't whine about it, I either buy it, because $1 is nothing or I go somewhere else. If the quality drops, they don't get my money, someone else does. I don't whinge about it.
If the games aren't good, don't buy them. I've skipped certain bundles (including this one) because the games (or rather, the games I don't already own) don't tickle my fancy, but I'm not going to complain that I've been "betrayed". I bought games in the past that I enjoyed for a fair price, they don't fucking owe me anything so why would I complain or get upset?
The most pathetic of my two examples is that of the people who want Steam keys but don't want to pay $5. If all they cared about was the cheap games, they could pay $0.01 and get Botanicula, Samorost 2 and Machinarium, DRM free. Bearing in mind that Machinarium is $10 on Steam, $5 for that and 2 other games is still a very fair price and they'd get to enlarge their e-peen.
tl;dr The level of angst and teeth-gnashing I've seen is childish and seems to come from a misplaced sense of entitlement which is downright fucking ugly. Grown-ups don't act that way.
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"Well then don't buy it!" is just as common a retort to the "whining" about the increased price and (perceived) decrease value. I already didn't buy it, but that doesn't mean I'm "entitled" for sharing my opinion in public. I'm not "whining" because I've been "betrayed" (strawman much?), I'm complaining because I WANT to be their customer but feel that their actions have pushed me away.
And why do you think being popular for selling these games cheaply "had nothing to do with them"? HIB popularized the pay-what-you-want concept for indie games. This wasn't an accident. They didn't mistakenly offer this stuff for the prices they did. Offering something for sale for $0.01 and then attacking people who actually buy it for $0.01 by calling them cheap IS low. If you're unwilling to see people pay those prices, then don't allow it, like Royale and Be Mine didn't (and IIRC Gala doesn't either). I understood the $1 price raise - that wasn't for the sake of revenue, that was to stop exploitation of their product by people wanting to exploit the Christmas sale here at Steam. But raising it to $5 and the corresponding huge spike in the average price (which is necessary to beat to get the "full" bundle) is nothing but revenue, which goes against the core values they've stressed in the past.
Your argument basically amounts to "If you don't like something, you should never mention it in any way and just quietly drop it forever." This is completely incorrect; it's totally natural and fair to air your negative opinion when you feel that a product is not a good value. And you're still marginalizing people who disagree with you through pointless ad hominem attacks (they're wrong because they're entitled pathetic children!). That kind of senseless and rude behavior only undermines your point.
There are reasons other than "e-peen" to want games on Steam; such as centralization of one's library (if every indie game I bought in a bundle were its own .exe my HDD set aside for game installs would be a complete mess by now!), automatic updates and community features.
Finally, just because a game is priced at a certain level doesn't mean that's what the game's worth. If Machinarium were having high sales for $10, I doubt they'd be offering it for "pay what you want" and/or $5. Especially not more than once. And finally, for "pay what you want" it's a little misleading. If I offered a pay-what-you want three course meal, but when you showed up without enough cash I gave you half of a soggy turkey sandwich instead and told you off for being spoiled, entitled, pathetic, and greedy for wanting what I originally offered, you'd be rightfully upset and feel like I was being misleading about the value of my offer. Now granted, this isn't that extreme (yet?) but this analogy is only a matter of extent, not principle.
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"But raising it to $5 and the corresponding huge spike in the average price (which is necessary to beat to get the "full" bundle) is nothing but revenue, which goes against the core values they've stressed in the past."
Raising it to $5 is an exception because the developer released the game via the pay-what-you-want bundle. I think it's totally fair.
"If Machinarium were having high sales for $10, I doubt they'd be offering it for "pay what you want" and/or $5."
Actually, it's false. Games that sell good often appear on sales. Look at Borderlands or Portal 2.
"If I offered a pay-what-you want three course meal, but when you showed up without enough cash I gave you half of a soggy turkey sandwich instead and told you off for being spoiled, entitled, pathetic, and greedy for wanting what I originally offered, you'd be rightfully upset and feel like I was being misleading about the value of my offer. Now granted, this isn't that extreme (yet?) but this analogy is only a matter of extent, not principle."
No, that is if they actually promised you steam games for pay-what-you-want. They're selling a game, not keys. So the correct analogy would be promising a nice meal and actually giving you one for $1, but not giving you ketchup.
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"Raising it to $5 is an exception because the developer released the game via the pay-what-you-want bundle. I think it's totally fair."
If it's just then fine...but I can't shake the feeling they're gauging reaction using this bundle to test it. And the lesson they've learned so far? "revenue skyrockets when the Steam price is raised to $5."
"Actually, it's false. Games that sell good often appear on sales. Look at Borderlands or Portal 2."
I didn't say good games don't go on sale, just that they don't go on sale until nobody's buying it at full price.
"No, that is if they actually promised you steam games for pay-what-you-want. They're selling a game, not keys. So the correct analogy would be promising a nice meal and actually giving you one for $1, but not giving you ketchup."
But they used to offer us steam keys as part of the package, now it's an additional cost. That's all I'm saying.
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+1, people buy COD for 60$ every year and they complain about a newly released indie game that comes out with a 50% discount on said release date :(
I would understand if this was a regular bundle; but this is a DEBUT bundle! It's like these people think the developers don't deserve any money for their new game they worked so hard for. Just sad.
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I'll paste what I said on the indie bundle thread on SPUF :
I say it's a bad move to make a bundle for the release of this game while it is silmunateously released on other sites such as GOG.
Maybe it provides a good advert for the game's devs, but it is one well placed stab in the back for all players who didn't buy it from HiB.
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It IS about the games. Why is this so hard for people to understand? I am not alone nor do I feel shame in saying that I first paid attention to Humble Bundle and imitators because of the promise of good games cheap, not because of the promise of charitable contributions. Anyone afraid to admit that they liked the premise of good, cheap Steam games needs to wake up and remember what site they're on.
Are the charities nice? Yes. Did it persuade me to pay more than I would have otherwise? Yeah. Did I buy the games because I wanted to donate to charity? No, I bought the games because I wanted the games. If it was about the charity, I'd just go to the charity's site directly.
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So how does that justify anything lol. All you did was beat around the bush. Whether its what you want or not, its a charity; the reason it was created was for charity, not for the games. Your argument has not validity in counter what I said. It does not justify complaining about charity.
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Then why did they market themselves as selling great games, rather than market themselves as an alternative way to donate to charity?
I doubt anyone here gave to humble bundle and then OH MY GOD WHAT A PLEASANT SURPRISE, THEY GAVE ME VIDEO GAMES!. No, they bought these games, it is a business transaction, and they did so because of perceived value in the sale.
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You asked, quote, "how does that justify anything lol" and I answered, then you called the answer irrelevant.
Is anything that doesn't support your predefined conclusion irrelevant?
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lol you dont even know what your talking about. The topic was that you shouldnt complain about charity. And you were talking about the way the advertised it and they what people took it; see the thing is, that doesnt matter, its still a charity. If you complain about it, you are complaining about a charity no matter what. And as a response to "Is anything that doesn't support your predefined conclusion irrelevant?" Well can't i ask you the same question? You keep arguing on. People are allowed there opinions but the fact is, the Humble Bundle is a charity; Look at the theme for this one "Pay what you want for Botanicula and save the rainforest." Yup thats a charity.
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It's a sale to benefit a charity, that's not the same as a direct charitable donation. That's all I and others said.
If I wanted to make a direct charitable donation and receive nothing in return, I'd just go direct to the charity's website and donate. I'd only do it through Humble's site if I wanted to buy the games they're offering.
And no, the topic was "Oh yeah cuz you know its all about the games and not about charity....sooo disappointed in a lot of you."
to which others reasonably pointed out that it's not just about the charity - and if it's not just about the charity, then it's also about the games, and thus judging the games' value is legitimate.
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Yeah thats the topic alright, people complaining about charity lol. Like i said before its a charity. Here is a definition of charity "benevolent goodwill toward or love of humanity". Just because an organization isn't 100% devoted to charity doesn't make what they are doing not a charity. Also i have failed to find where on the humble bundle site where it says its all about the games. Its about also supporting the devs but it says no where it made to give people a good deal on games. And also I have another point, 5$ for a games you would normally have to shell out $15 for on Steam. So far I dont see any reason to be complaining about it, whether you see it about charity/devs (like I do) or just getting a good deal. My point was that it was made for donations not for sales. The biggest reason they need the tip is for maintaining servers. You may say its about the games, everyone on this site may say its about the games but that is not what it says on the site. On the site it says its about charity. What? now thats a surprise :o Point is, there is no reason to be complaining about charity, that is and always was the topic.
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regardless its a charity. And how does HIB have anything really to do with commercial? Even with the default, they get the least amount of money. Most of the money goes to maintaining the servers for all the downloads. Other than that all the money goes to charity or the devs. If you think most of it, is profit then you are mistaken.
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Soon it will be $10 minimum for Steam.
ALL HOPE IS LOST FOR INDIE BUNDLES
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Except you can still pay what you want, the minimum is for Steam keys which really are a bonus.
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I just want to ask the humble defense force in this thread what they'd think if EA took a service that used to be free, then gave it a nominal fee for an acceptable reason, and then four months later started charging significant amounts for this service that used to be free.
Edit: $5 may not exactly be breaking the bank, but anyone on Steamgifts surely knows what $5 can do for you in your average Steam sale. So relatively speaking, it's quite significant.
That's exactly what this Humble Bundle has done and while I don't speak for everyone, that's why I'm upset about it personally.
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That's a faulty analogy.
A) It's not a service, each Humble Bundle has (mostly) different games and more often than not, different developers. Each Humble Bundle is a product.
B) They were, and still are, selling games on a Pay what you want basis. You can still buy the main games from each bundle for $0.01, total.
C) More and more, bundles are incentivising people to spend more in order to get more. They don't owe you anything. They are already offering you 3 great games, that took 100s of hours of many peoples' lives to create, for a single US cent. If you want, you can pay a little more and get Steam keys, pay a little extra and get a movie and another game. Again, they don't owe you anything.
I bought a Nintendo DS for £150 once, should Nintendo now have to offer me every new handheld/console they ever make for that same price? They don't owe you anything; you have no right to be upset.
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The service I meant is not the sale of video games, but rather the supplying of Steam keys, which they did and still do advertise as a feature.
And knock it off with the strawman; I never said I'm OWED these games. All I said was that I feel it's a ripoff to be expected to pay significant amounts for something that used to be included for free. I'm not sure how or why you keep translating this as "They owe it to me to give this to me for free!" other than that it's easier to knock down a strawman than to actually respond to what I said. Humble expects me to give up what could be a completely separate game (or anything else that a fiver could buy, such as a delicious sammich) just to get what I used to get just for purchasing to begin with. To get the full bundle I would have to pay more than any previous bundle has gone for as a minimum; I see this as a rise in price.
Edit: As an aside, I'd like to call attention to why it was called the Humble Indie Bundle to begin with. It's not just a cute name, it had meaning back in the HIB1 days. I don't see how locking out customers who don't pay enough from the majority of the unique bundle (two of the three "base" games in the bundle have been in previous bundles if I'm not mistaken) and denying services that used to be included is any more humble than just putting DRM on the downloads in the first place.
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People seem to keep missing that this is a DEBUT bundle, not a regular bundle. Do you honestly think these developers deserve only 1$ for their newly released game they worked so hard for? And that's only if you customize the split to give only to the devs and 0 to charity and the humblebundle crew.
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Isn't the point of "pay what you want" that YOU choose what the developers deserve? If the devs are going to dictate how much they deserve at all, why not just sell it normally?
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They aren't dictating. "Pay what you want" still means "pay what you want", or did you already forget that you could pay 0.01cents and still get all these games DRM-free. They aren't forcing you to pay 5$ either, it's your compulsiveness to add more games to your steam library that's making you think you need to.
Now to answer your question: Yeah the devs are gonna sell it normally ON STEAM for 10, but at the same time a DRM copy for as low as 0.01cents in the humblebundle. Botanicula isn't an old game that needs to be on sale for 90% off to convince people to buy it, this is a brand new game that people have been looking forward to and 50% off is a very awesome deal for those people.
Now answer my previous question please: Do you honestly think these developers deserve only 1$ for their NEWLY RELEASED game they worked so hard for?
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I don't know what the developers deserve for the game, because I haven't played it, nor does it seem to be my type of game. I don't see how that's relevant though; I never said they did deserve only $1 for their game. All I'm saying is that I disapprove of the effective and intentional price hike of the bundles, and if future bundles have this same policy it is unlikely that I'll continue to be their customer because of a decrease in the value of their products and services.
I'm not buying this bundle even for $0.01 because I just plain don't want it. I'm worried about the implications of humble's price hike, though, because they've sold games I wanted in the past and will presumably do so again in the future. When EA put horrendous DRM on Spore, I was concerned even though I didn't want Spore, because I was (rightfully, sadly) afraid that EA would do similar things to the franchises they own that I did care for.
And why does the humble defense force seem to constantly overlook that there might be reasons one would prefer to have their game on Steam other than library-stuffing? As I said to someone else, if I kept every single game I got in a indie bundle as its own seperate .exe, my hard drive would be absolutely littered with games; not to mention that these games get semi-frequently updated and trying to keep the dozens of games I've bought in bundles up-to-date individually would be an enormous and unnecessary task. Not to mention the community features, overlay (only really a benefit IMO to games that don't play nice with alt-tab), steam achievements, and other stuff that I don't really mind but other people might like.
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I see your point. I would be worried too if they set the minimum price for steam-keys to 5$ for the regular bundles as I like using Steam to easily organize and manage my games. But this is a Debut bundle so I think 5$ is a fair price for the developers; that maybe just me and a handful of people though =/
PS. Check RanTH's post on the lower part of this page. He has confirmed that future bundles will revert back to the 1$ minimum for steam-keys. The only reason this bundle was at 5$ was because the devs wanted it.
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Yes, I just saw that post too. As I said, I'm glad to hear it. I've spent $5 on most of the bundles, and bought additional copies for the minimum for two friends of mine who don't have a way to pay; but I was worried of getting priced out of doing that in the future.
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this is a debut bundle for a brand new game. you can pay what you want for a completely new game from an excellent developer. you apes.
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I can't believe this piece of crap got more than $200k in one day while Be Mine 2, which is way better (6 awesome games + lots of music + a movie + a comic + a graphic novel) and entirely devoted to charity, only got almost $50k so far having been launched 10 days ago.
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Sorry for not making myself clear; it's not Botanicula what I consider a piece of crap, but the bundle itself. I know that the main featured game is new, but the bundle is high-priced considering what other bundles have been and are going for (it's particularly the beat the average I'm concerned about, as I'm ok with having a minimum of $3 to $5 for Steam keys or whatever) and even more so since it doesn't feature much content (only 4 games that don't look like they have much replay value, 2 of which have been previously featured in Humble Bundles, and a movie). On the other hand, we have the current Indie Royale with some interesting variety and neat games, as well as Be Mine 2, which also features tons of bonus content, so I believe I can easily get significantly better stuff for around the same money. Personally, I find this quite poor as a bundle and I think Botanicula's developers could have waited a few months before participating in something like this. However, if I find it interesting enough, I might consider getting it for full price in order to help support them.
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either way, the price difference is still ridiculous
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Its not that I don't appreciate these its just...Why keep reusing the same games? Good price for those interested, I will pass on this one.
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<selfish reasoning>
Should have a separate BTA without steam key that will shows what people really wants. That makes it possible to get the BTA games WITHOUT steam. Now we have no choice the people who wants the steam key brings up the BTA to such a high value. So what we are seeing here is high average but less purchased compared to previous bundle. also due to the fact games already offered in previous bundle. I really hope they only do this once for this new game.
</selfish reasoning>
Again all this are for charity, if you cant afford so much charity then no BTA bonus for you. You can still donate for a good cause for dev and World Land Trust any amount you feel comfortable. Just don't get as much perks as last time :)
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To clear things up, only Windosill is a game of those 2 BTA-extras. A few people stated already you can get it for less from steam. I don't see anyone else "beating the average" other than those who are interested in the movie (Kooky) and those who just want to show their support.
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This is not true I think, during the video there is only 2 games who says "redeemable steam key" for it. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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well, i finally decided to buy it cheap, so i can give a try to botanicula; if i really like it, there's always a chance to pay more and eventually unblock the rest of the content
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somebody?
say what you want, but right now it sold some 350.000$, with 13 days to go; not bad for an horrible bundle
a lot of criticism, but remember that cash is king (if you know what i mean)
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Best debut in the series of Humbles so far. Frozen Synapse (not sure if debut though) and Voxatron were alright, but this one is completely awesome. Steam or not, this game should be tried at least.
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Frozen Synapse was not a debut, and Voxatron was an alpha.
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It's here http://www.humblebundle.com/
Above average
"Pay $5 or more and you’ll get a Steam key in addition to DRM-free direct downloads."
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