What is with the sudden wave of petitions lately?
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Yeah, I agree with you. Let's just stop all giveaways on this site. That way nothing could possibly be given away that could be considered a bundle giveaway.
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Unfortunately, it was too much work for support to keep track of. And everyone was breaking the rules anyways.
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I went ahead and counted the number of bundle games I gave away - it comes out to 39, not including giveaways that got 0 entries (most of those were filler giveaways for puzzles to conceal how many giveaways I actually had) and currently bundled games that were not in bundles before I gave them away.
This number includes approximately 10 giveaways that were bundled games but I gave away inventory copies and/or otherwise non-bundled copies of the games. 39 is about 13% of the total giveaways.
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"Value $3,635.5" doesn't happen from those unless he'd already given enough non bundled for the bundle credit not to matter for abusing the system purposes(there aren't many giveaways behind gates over 1k are there? not going to pay off even with using the deepest sales).
didn't scroll through the games list but either what your'e seeing weren't bundled at the time or he didn't gift them for the cv or both.
(edit- skimmed a tiny bit, not seeing alot of public though so i guess theres that? but that'd be a different cv debate especially since it looks like many were puzzles based on the number tagged "private" with few entries so it isn't really a groups thing(i could see an argument about cv from groups I mean). but you didn't go that path, you said "bundle" and cv farming)
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I wish someone sold me a bunch of Metro Last Light giveaways for 1 cent. I'd buy them, all of them, really.
No one I know could actually work this out and from what I understood the most part of the orders were canceled and no keys were given in the end. Also the peak of Metro: LL giveaways is the beginning of September when the game had a Steam sale, not 2 months ago when this error occured. For the rest of the games I more or less agree, but adding them now, after MONTHS or nearly a year passed since the price error is quite funny, since 'bundle game' status will be given to all giveaways from now on, not to these in the past.
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Confirming no keys were given for Metro:LL, I ordered and order was cancelled.
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My tough reading pretty much tells me in summary:
ORDER CANCELLED. STOP DREAMING BUDDIES.
If someone feels dedicated they can actually make a list of the number of people who confirmed they got it back then. And also check the Metro: LL giveaways chart and see what an extremely high peak it had 2 months ago.
Edit: 1 guy below me confirms their order was canceled, and another says theirs was fulfilled. 1:1, but early for any conclusions.
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For some reason people got it in their head that they work.
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They work, but not when it is submitted to someone in which has no reason to deal with petitions, or on matters that don't really matter that much. Something like this would take a campaign for people to get large numbers to voice up to the people in charge of the item in focus. Companies don't really deal in petitions, and will often ignore them just to continue making money, this site has no reason to take the petition based on the bundle list is decided from a list of rules they use (I am sure), and the government is really the only one to take petitions to because it is the easiest for them to handle in their eyes through the bureaucracy.
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I think he commented above that bundle games are like 13% of his total giveaways.
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Who cares if the guy giveaway shit? I'm not gonna bow to him for it.
And its fucking sad that you need to involve my comments or giveaways. I'm here for games that I actually want and to giveaway when I please (which is double the ratio of games I have won).
Unlike people with high contribution are most likely here to win as many games as possible and get a giant e-penis from their library size.
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"Look at his giveaways. so many bundled games, it hurts." Well obviously you noticed what he gives away
What I'm saying is that someone with almost 15k comments, hundreds of giveaways, and almost 2 years on here is likely to not spout dumb shit. So hearing this from someone whose stats are much lower means that the person with the lower statistics are the least likely to be agreed with. Sorry,but that's a mindset a lot of forum-goers have on here.
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To get a high value you need to give away a lot of games=spending money. I think a mod said a while back that SG is a poor investment if you're looking to increase library size. You're better off just buying the games yourself.
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without 'the community' there would be no steamgifts ..
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Nah, SG wouldn't be without cg and the whole mod/support team.
The community are the contributors, who keep the site alive.
How would it be, if everyone could decide whatever they want on their own? Sure, you can make a suggestion. There's a special option in "Support" tab for that. But a petition? Why?
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"the community is SG"? That doesn't make sense to me.
The major part of SG's community truly are the contributors - what would be given away, if nobody is contributing? Contributors are also usually those, who are active at forums.
BUT the support team are the ones, who run the site. There wouldn't any SG, if they weren't here and thus community depends on support. And thus, support team are the only one to decide what is getting bundled and what not. AND THUS any petition is absolutely pointles AND THUS there's definitely not need for it.
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If the major part of the community are the contributors, then why do we need a forum section? Might as well just do away with it.
The support team are surprise, not the ones who run the site. While they help to moderate, the only one running the site is cg. And SG will still be around without them, just either smaller in size or made private.
Therefore, support are not the only ones to decide what gets bundled. Because of that, petitions are not pointless and thus there is a need for them.
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What a coincidence, because Kane's Wrath is not being exploited right now either but nothing stopped it from getting on the bundle list.
The main difference is that the games I listed above were new AAA games and Kane's Wrath is just some dumb DLC.
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So once again, I repeat. I'm not arguing what should or shouldn't be bundled, that's not my decision and I'm not gonna argue about things, that I can't change anyway. Plus my point is, that all those deals for AAA titles are long time gone. What would be the reason for adding them now? Don't you want anymore of giveaways for those games? If they were added to the bundle list now, almost nobody would ever give them away anymore.
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Which was my point with Fortix.. but that went over so many's heads ..
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Sure, there will be less giveaway. And people will keep exploiting, no doubt that.
But what would you giveaway rather, if you cared about CV? A 1 dollar Fortix, which won't give you any CV or a 50 dollar game, which also won't give you any CV? Fortix is the lesser evil.
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And how many other 1$ games are there? Which cheaper game could they give away, if not fortix? Plus a lot of people giving away Fortix don't have 30$ thus it doesn't matter if it adds CV or not. And people with over 30 CV usually don't care about 1 CV addition.
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Even as I obviously don't understand human psychology, as you just said, I think it might happen, that I could have some leftover money from recent Steam purchases - a dollar or two aaaaand then I'd wonder, "what shall I do with the last dollar? Oh right! I could give away a Fortix! Since it's the only cheap game that I can buy for a single dollar!"
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Yeah I disagree with metro as well(and all the other ones), although I actually did manage to get one, it went straight to my steam account. I don't think many of the people who managed to get it would have gotten many more than 1; and I think most people would add the first one to their own account.
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Why was C&C added to the bundle list? - I think I missed something.
EDIT: Ok I know why I didnt see this. I own both games so they were filtered out.
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+1, please explain
Edit: Thanks for the answers, although it is unreasonably cheap I kinda disagree with the decision to add it to the bundle list. If regional pricing is a factor for games to go on the bundle list now, a LOT of games should be added to the list as well.
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It's not a pricing error as OP already said in the other thread. The base price of it is 99 rubs, which makes it somewhere around 80% off already. With the 75% sale that the game has, it made it such that the discount price is around 95% off the base price of it in the US.
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This is very likely. I buy games all the time from russian trades .. why? Cause their prices are so much lower.
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Where the petition for just removing the contributor giveaway? I'm going to sign it.
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Yup, this seems to be the solution to the issue. No more exclusives club, and therefore no more complaining about CV exploitation.
Done, and Done
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I wasn't aware those were added until just now, and for the record, I disagree with it. However, the difference between Kane's Wrath and the others you mentioned is availability. The others were all price glitches that crashed sites and were fixed within a few hours, vs a nice, stable Steam Sale. Here's the Kane's Wrath chart. Much, much higher than the other games, 4x or 5x.
Now, can I ask your honest purpose for creating this thread? Because you honestly want to see the games bundled? Because you DON'T want the C&C games bundled? To point out the problems with the consistency bundle list? Because you want the list gone?
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I added Civilization V to the list, which looks very similar to the C&C games - high Russian discount and high number of giveaways during sales.
I honestly don't care what games are added to the list or not (nor do I care about the CV system), I only care about having a consistent set of rules of what is added or not.
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It seems Civilization V isn't a good example, it is the first non-free Steam game for number of players or one of the first ones.
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In the beginning, cg said "We created a list of bundles and abused games with start dates."
"Abused games". That's the problem. How do you define abuse? Could Metro: Last Light really be considered abused when only a small number of people were actually able to get keys, and most of them only 1?
It's a fuzzy term. You can set up some parameters to help determine "abuse", but in the end it's a judgment call. A judgment call made by a human, who I think does the best he can considering how complex things have gotten.
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I respect Shobo for running the bundle list and keeping a clear head through all of the complaints. However, in this instance, it looks like the main reason the games were added to the list was because of the previous threads complaining about CV abuse from the C&C games. The games may not have even been abused nearly as much if people hadn't brought attention to the fact that it was dirt cheap in Russia.
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A judgment call made by a human, who I think does the best he can considering how complex things have gotten. when i read this i remembered obama with the nobel of peace xD...
Well that is true... That i said in other thread... i live in a 3rd world country so every game i buy with a 75% of disscount because of my money (1 dolar= 7 pesos argentinos) is the same as buying at full value(or more) than it's sells in EEUU... But it's ok..This is the "game" rules so i accept it... I fell really bad...because i would like to gift more, but if u cant, u cant sometimes... All would be better without cv or bundled games for my country im really sure.. But u have to accept that sometimes live is not just =P.
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Civ 5 has seen spikes in giveaways because it has been included in many packs, including free to XCOM:EU pre-orders, Bioshock Infinite pre-orders, and as an apology to Brave New World pre-order buyers when that went on sale during the Summer Sale.
None of those could be exploited.
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Civ V actually has a higher discount in the Russian store than Tiberium Wars does. If Tiberium Wars is considered exploitable and is on the bundle list, Civ V must be as well.
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Civ V is roughly $8 USD in the Russian Store, which is roughly 75% cheaper than the US Store.
But more importantly, there are currently NO Civ 5 giveaways and in the past two weeks there's only been two. I'd hardly call that exploited.
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Civ V isn't currently on sale so you can't expect too many giveaways for it right now. If you search through past giveaways, you can see Russians giving away 5+ copies of the game since it's so cheap. It was certainly exploited a lot more than Tiberium Wars, for instance.
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If you see 5+ copies giveways of a older and not much popular game like Tiberium Wars while it's on sale at that price, you think immediately the giveaway submitters may be interested only in the CV. Instead, if the game is Civilization V you can't be so sure what it's in their mind, as the game is actually a top seller and wishlisted game.
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People don't normally give or want vanilla Civ V, however.
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I don't know if that is correct, but anyway you still can't be so sure about their intentions in that case. Doesn't matter if it's Civilization V / 2 or a full version, it's still an appreciated giveaway for who want to play the game, unless they are picky.
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Ah, thanks for the correction. Even so, there have been numerous ways to get Civ V for "free".
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Plus it's about time for bundle debates anyways! It seems like we get a huge number of debate threads every 6 months or so anyways. And the last major rash of debates were, you guessed it, approximately 6 months ago!
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BL2 was not sold for $2 USD on gamersgate. It was more than that. Unless you are talking about some pricing glitch that happened when I was not looking for it during the sales around then lol.
Most of the ones for BL2 that popped up in the past where due to sales going on that is for sure, but it was never THAT cheap outside of some areas of Russia.
This is also the first time finding out of the Metro Last Light thing.. Is that honestly true or some thing someone told you about and you did not do a followup to make sure it was real?
Do not believe Civ 5 was ever 95% off. I know it had a 75% off sale though.
Also.. more proof than just the giveaway spikes please. I know Skyrim was also on sale several different places during that time, but once again I never seen the bundle you are speaking of, and I have yet to see it go for 95% off either.
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100% true about the Metro Last Light thing. It was put up for free for owners for a particular video card but it was posted incorrect. So ended up avail for everyone (in the US) for a penney. I personally know of people that did get a copy. I dont know of many given away though
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Ahh, Yea I remembered something about a video card but was not sure if I was confusing it for another game.
Too bad I missed out on that then. Would have loved to have picked it up lol.
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BL2 4-pack was $11.25 on GG exactly where the spike of giveaways is.
Same thing with Skyrim. Look up the Bethesda New Year Collection - it was $27 for I think 10 Bethesda games and the spike of giveaways actually does correspond with the day the collection was sold.
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There was a ton of games in that collection. Lots of people got them. Not sure how many were made into giveaways but you could prob agree for Fallout series and Rage and all elder scrolls as well.
I was pretty disappointed I didnt snag a copy myself but was happy members of our group did and decided to share the wealth.
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Yeah, it was quite the nice deal. I spent something like 4 hours madly refreshing the page and finally managed to snag a copy for myself.
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GG. You mean Greenman Gaming? It was $13.50 during the summer sale and that includes the % off voucher. ( I know, I picked up the game during that sell. ) However that was the game + Season pass. Though funny enough the gift spike did not happen till a little afterwords when steam had its sell of the game.
Oh and the search for the Bethesda New Year Collection. I see it was available for a very short time. Was fairly cheap for what you get that is for sure.
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Ahh yea. I keep forgetting about GamersGate. I only tend to check the site during the big events and I have yet to buy anything from them... mainly why I keep forgetting lol.
Well in that case I have no clue for sure if it was priced at that from them.
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GG = Gamersgate
Here's an SG thread about it
Also, it seems my pricing was wrong. Apparently it was only $5.63 for a 4-pack
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I mean he can, but if people seriously want to change things and not just start flame wars, I think the suggestion form is probably better. The 'two idiots' could probably have made a suggestion instead too, but I didn't see their posts so idk what it was about exactly.
We've had roughly 300 billion threads on why the CV system is good/bad, and at some point (probably around thread 1,025,193,664) it becomes preaching to the choir / a flamewar.
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well yea, Boosting probably should've been a suggestion too. I didn't really read that one. I posted on the "where are..." thread, and that one's actually asking a legit question. When the site is spammed with copies of something it's natural to wonder where they came from. So I have no problem with that one. Mostly what irked me was the use of the word 'petition'. We had an outbreak of those a while ago, and I had hoped they had died off, because all it is, is a support ticket for people that want attention. I mean it's one thing to have a discussion on the subject, but like I said earlier, the CV system has been discussed to DEATH, and the only thing to do is try to convince the support team of whatever position one happens to hold.
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If you disagree with someone about anything, you don't need to use any form of contemptuous term.
And thank you for calling me "idiot". That makes me feel nice because I know just pushed where hurts you and I'm right.
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If I add a puzzle giveaway here, would it make you feel better? :P
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I dont know about him but, it would make me feel better :P
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I am all burned out from that group puzzle. Going to be some time before I even finish the last 2 Puzzle a Days. Actually, might be a good idea to postpone the absolute last one until my birthday anyways. That's one category I definitely didn't cover yet.
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lol, probably. However I'm burned out on solving puzzles. I remember when puzzles first became a thing I'd do my damnedest to solve every one. Now I rarely bother, too many puzzles overwhelms me I think. So I probably wouldn't solve it myself, but at least that'd be a solid reason to make this a public thread.
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SO if one game goes down, all should...go home and quit bringing every down with you. Sure, some of the bundling I don't like either, but don't unnecessarily ruin the party for everyone. Just have a petition to remove it from the bundle list.
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Yea some people got their copies.. the ones that did it real early.. but at word spread everyone else (even ones that had order processed) ended up with nothing.
But other examples I do remember well. So they could be argued here for sure.
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Knock Knock Knock
Sorry to interrupt here, but what bundle?
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Idea is good idea but can we take it to the next level?
Put everything in the bundle list. CV isn't useful anyways. Make all public giveaways to be saturated with bundle games and put decent giveaways on group/private
Maintaining the bundle list obviously has failed, or should I say, not properly documented. Where are those criterias posted/located?
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Question is, where is that criteria posted officially? FAQ? a criteria that only a few knows? A post buried somewhere?
SG is the first community that I joined that will punish or implement something for not knowing a hidden or undocumented rule.
E.G: SG chat moderation is an example
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The criteria are in a post Shobo made around 5 to 6 months ago in some obscure thread that I'm having extreme trouble trying to find.
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"I will try to bundle most exploitable deals that are 95% and higher."
not
"I will bundle all deals that are 95% and higher."
Judgment calls.
*Edit
"Exploitable as in not limited. If you can buy as many copies as you want, it'll be added."
You could not buy as many copies of Metro, BL2, Skyrim as you wanted.
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I swear there was another post where he laid down more concrete rules, but I'm having too much trouble finding more.
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well if he defined "exploitable" as(=) "not limited". Then the 27$ deal in GG, Borderlands 2 4-pack price mistake is technically not considered as exploitable as GG definitely has limited supplied and has cancelled a lot of orders that they can't fulfill.
Metro LL is limited for 1 copy if your outside in US, buyers outside US that has successfully acquired a key only got 1 order processed and all others succeeding got cancelled.
Your move..
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Technically games on Steam have limited supply too >_>
Remember Prey running out of keys on Steam?
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ye, and technically, humble bundle isn't exploitable by that definition since they limit 1 credit card to a # of purchase.
Point is, don't stretch the definition, you obviously cannot purchase a lot of bethesda new year pack in a short period of time due to network overload on GG's website.
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Can't argue against that. Gamersgate did indeed limit you by being ridiculously laggy.
Shobo doesn't really follow his own rules though. C&C Tiberium Wars is only about 91% off the US price in Russia and it was added as well.
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The GG "promotion" wasn't only limited by the lagginess of the site. GamersGate puts a limit of 2 copies of any purchase per account. This means that you could get at most 2 Bethesda packs. You could have tried with multiple accounts, true, but I had problems even getting my first purchase through.
Anyone who managed to purchase those packs boosted their CV a little, but there are worse offenders. Your "large spike" for Skyrim? HA! Take a look at Rome Total War graph. Now THAT's what I call a spike.
That said, please, please, PLEASE, remove the CV system, or at least rework it. It only promotes countless discussion threads. I'd gladly renounce to a slightly higher chance of getting a game to make all the discussions go away.
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Seriously, Rome Total War was most definitely abused a lot more than Kane's Wrath ever was.
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Well, the next step would be to eliminate CV, naturally.
And that post by Shobo is really difficult to track down. It might take me a bit to find it.
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Apparently the solution is to ban Russian users, whom get to "exploit the system" by consistently having cheaper games than people in other regions.
:-)
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Cats are disgusting! We don't need your kind around here!
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That's a great idea. I guess I should also wear my 3D glass. Gonna read through this comment like it suppose to; in 3D.
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It's obvious this system doesn't work. Can we just get rid of CV already?
EDIT: About the Metro keys, the majority of the purchases were cancelled. The spike on the graph is from the weekly sale.
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Maybe it's time for another poll, but I'm going to guess that the pro-CV crowd is still going to win.
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Maybe it's time to screw polls. The CV system just creates more and more work for support having to deal with people attempting to exploit it through private giveaways, the bundle list, the millions of forum post, and all the other bullshit that comes with it. If support feels that its too much of a pain, they should just be done with.
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+1. Screw polls. CV was fun back in the days. Now CV creates more problem.
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I agree, if you mean polling everyone on the site.
A small group of knowledgeable individuals, or just whoever is the owner of the site, should just make a judgement call.
Which I think is obviously that CV should just not exist, or it should exist is a far simpler, unimportant manner.
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I understand that the op is being entirely sarcastic and is just explaining that he believes the criteria for determining what games to add to the "bundle list" is not good enough. He's also arguing that Steamgifts isn't following that criteria, which means the decisions being made are hypocritical. I'm not saying I agree with all of his points, but he chose a good way to make his argument, and he is not trolling. You, however, are, by attacking a person for simply making an argument.
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CV won't be changed. Those at the top want to maintain the difference between those at the bottom. Just like real life.
I generally feel that no giveaways should be discouraged, and, if those prone to giving games away stop doing so here, the site will have problems. Fewer giveaways means fewer hits which means less ad revenue. When that happens the site will again begin to attract and value givers, but until then... what will be will be.
That said, I have Skyrim and I don't care about Civ 5, but I'll take a copy of Borderlands 2 for $2. I missed that bundle sadly...
...I have ideas for a better system that I think will benefit more people. It might even benefit a lot of the top givers/donors. But I'm not sure everyone will like it. Here's the gist of it:
Games that are currently in currently available bundles give no CV, not even bundle CV. They also cost 0 points to enter and can have no CV barrier. The giveaway is wide open and must link to the bundle. Want a better shot than one in ten thousand? Buy the bundle. And then give away the games you don't need, but you don't profit from it at all.
Games that have been deeply discounted to 85% or more go on a list, kind of like the bundle list. This includes games on the bundle list, but only if the BTA is 15% or less of the game's price. HIB9 BTA is about five bucks, Bastion is $10 (right? I forget), that's only half — under my system, it doesn't go on the list. A lot of indie games get protected this way. Maybe 85% isn't reasonable. Work with that number.
Games that are in high demand... SG notes the top X games on your wishlist, but not all. Why? Why not all of them? Since it's important to SG which ones are at the top of your list, use that data to "vote" on the most in-demand Steam games. Use that ranking (percentile) to determine what a game is worth. This forces every SG user to go to Steam and tell SG what games are most valuable to them and to all of SG. Each user gets up to X votes (whatever number of wishlist entries SG takes from Steam). If half the users want Skyrim, Skyrim gets you a lot of CV, but it costs a lot of points. These numbers need to be figured out as well. Likewise, Some Game That Nobody Wants... gets you almost no CV and more people can enter it (on the premise that fewer will). Less popular games are more easily won by those who actually want them. Games people want might cost 100-120 points to enter, regardless of whether it's Borderlands 2 or Fortix (of course, Fortix would have to be near the top of a great many peoples' wishlist).
I dunno. Just some ideas. The way the system works, a lot of people game it. I saw a guy once who had over 60 wins, and less than half the entries I did. But I don't really care. I'm not dishonest. I work for a living, and I buy a lot of games, when I can. I get the bundles, and I give away what I don't use. Not because I want CV. But because I think, "I don't want this, but somebody else might." And because I think a site like this deserves to exist and to be great. And entering giveaways, to me it's like playing the lotto, but I don't have to pay to do so. My chances of winning are astronomically low, but I have won twice, so that ain't too bad.
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Many are going to stop taking you seriously after "Those at the top want to maintain the difference between those at the bottom."
Some of the most outspoken opponents of the bundle list are those with thousands of dollars in CV.
As for your system, it's even more complicated to maintain and will just create more questions. We are looking to move to a simpler system.
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I don't think a simpler better cv system can exist, any improvement will require more effort. Personally I like the idea of making it so bundle games give non-bundle cv based on their minimum bundle price but obviously that requires keeping track of a lot of pricing information.
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Well the simplest CV system is the nonexistent one, that's for sure.
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Seeing as Command & Conquer Kane's Wrath and Tiberium Wars were added to the bundle list today, to be fair, Skyrim, Metro Last Light, Borderlands 2 and countless other games must also be added to the list.
Skyrim was sold in a pack of 10 Steam games for approximately $27, which divided equally, comes out to be $2.70, a savings of 95.5% off from the list price of $60. For proof that it was exploited, refer to this graph. There is a large spike on December 19, 2012, precisely when it was sold in this bundle.
Metro Last Light was sold for 1 penny at Best Buy, which is quite obviously an exploit and must be added to the bundle list. I would estimate that a good fraction of the Metro giveaways were from this exploit. Please add it to the bundle list. Based on new information, Metro Last Light is not a good example. Instead, I offer you Spore Creepy & Cute Parts Pack, which has the exact same discount in the Russian Steam store as Kane's Wrath.
Similarly, Borderlands 2 was sold for $2 or so during the holidays on Gamersgate, a discount of 96.7%. Do you see the huge spike in December and January of last year? Yeah, those are from this price mistake.
What about Civilization V? It has a similar discount as the two Command and Conquer games in terms of Russian pricing. It's not a coincidence that the giveaway spikes for this game occur exactly when the game was on sale.
All three of these games fulfill the main criteria to be on the list:
1) 95% off sale or higher
2) Exploitable/Exploited
Please add these games to the bundle list.
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