Computers?
There's lots of section.
Networking, Information Technology, Graphic Design, Computer System etc.
Which one are you in?
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But it is your fault for being condescending towards someone just looking for opinions. If you studied, which I assume you did, you very well know that he will have to try out for a semester or so anways, to really see if this line of studies suits you. Nothing can replace first hand experience, but trying to hear opinions is pretty smart, imho.
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Getting opinions means not knowing what to do in the first place. If he can't even listen to himself, are you the one telling him, without any knowledge of his person, what to do, definitely leading him a wrong way as you cannot be right in your advice, because it has to be a choice he has to make on his own?
Studying means personal responsibility. There's no schedule and a fixed amount of things you'll have to read to pass. Studying means personal development, not just amassing knowledge, therefore no one can make that choice but himself. I'm glad there's some people here that didn't just flat out tell him what to do based off some salary tables - whatever you do, if you're good at it, there's someone willing to pay properly. But becoming good at something means more than just doing it. It means being it.
From what we can all already read, he's not even into coding, yet there's plenty of people that throw computer science at him. If he's not at least had the guts to try out coding, how likely is he going to become a well known software engineer or programmer?
So the only advice is: go beyond what you've already seen. Try stuff. You like computers? Stop just using them. Start thinking them through, start understanding. That's what studying is about. It's not all just easy answers, a little Google here and there and poof, you're rich and only work two days a week.
I hope I did make a clear point: you like computers? Get into the topic. Find out how far this "liking" goes, and if it keeps you interested even for the not so fancy parts. Because you want to be one of those people future generations will read about if they learn about computers. Anyone else just presses buttons and no one cares.
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Try formatting your text next time, I might not be bothered to read a similar post again.
So, It would be fantastic if there is only your approach to this, but there isn't. Try to be helpful and not condescending. All I got to say to that.
cheers
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I did, can't tell why it wont accept the line feeds.
Unless you have a working alternative (long-time, as it is a lifetime choice that is being relayed to completely unknown persons here), I can't see why you would need to even mention it. I still see this thread in a line with "Hey random dude, should I have a baby?" and "Yo anon, should I get a dog?" and I clearly fail to see that working. Willingly.
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Double enter is required for some reason, don't ask me why. There might be a more elegant solution, but this works for me.
I just tend to think that people asking for advice are more likely to fail doing anything, if the response, at first/intitial response, isn't at least a bit uplifting. Human nature is as such, that we work/learn better if encouraged.
Just the way I see it. And of course I hope this random guy will try and use other venues of gathering information, before making an informed decision.
:)
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The question does leave a lot of downers as possible answers (examples further down), and as I wouldn't expect the results to be entirely positive, this will more likely fuel the doubts he already has.
Therefore, I strongly advise to get some proper information. You can usually just sit in and listen at the uni or talk to students, that's a good source, even if it's not as easy as asking on the internet.
Then, as well, one might ask in a professional peer group like developer forums.
I do understand the sentiment of trying to have someone else decide, but that someone does not have to carry the decision, so it is not quite the foundation such a decision requires.
I think we all made our points here.
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I really appreciate the fact that you remained very civil, after my inital comment. Which was, after re-reading it, a bit too inflammatory.
Hats off to you for that.
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Currently going into my third year of Software Engineering, my two cents:
What is the best degree/major: Depends on what you mean by 'best'. I like coding for the sake of coding, so software engineer. Networking stuff is popular, graphic design lets you make pretty stuff... All perfectly valid majors.
How much money will I earn: Depends on a lot more than your degree. If you end up being terrible at it/don't work hard/show up to interviews in a chicken suit, you won't earn much. A degree is the first step, the bit after that is selling yourself to employers.
Is it easy or hard: Hard. If you want to be good at it. If you want to just get a pass you can get by just by being clever. But being GOOD at this stuff requires effort.
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To be perfectly honest every field in this major requires coding of some kind, there is no way around it.
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I'm going into my second year of Software Engineering and can confirm that it's mainly coding.
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If you study hard you can learn any amount of coding. You just can't let that be the reason to not be a computer major. Sure you'll have days were you have no idea whats going on, but eventually by trial and error it will become easier to understand where you went wrong and quickly fix it. No one with out prior knowledge was good at coding out of my classes. I went from barely being able to make a gui of box with a ball in it to making a full java based game similar to most side scrolling shooter back in the day in around 2 years. It will take you time but if you really have this love of computers, give it a shot.
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I'm 20, I've done some internships with state farm, police, and a few other places. I currently work for the government.
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It also depends where you're living.
After getting my BA I got stuck in small town in Poland. Wanted and learned to be a programmer/coder. Had little experience, but there just was no job for me, as long as I wanted a real job. I had to earn a living so I started doing freelance webdesign, graphics, coding for what essentialy was pocket money and then it turned out, there's plenty of work, in both small and large companies, as long as you don't want to be real employee and you are willing to work very, very cheap.
Now I'm 31, have very wide if not so deep experience, but most of it is undocumented and employers tell me I'm too old. I'm not willing to rip my guts out just to earn very modest living, so now I work as a clerk in local administration. One of my friends from the university is selling furniture. Of course, some other friends are living very good, some of them were more talented, some made better life choices, were able to leave for a big cities, some ather were really uncommited to studies, but had connections or were pretty.
My point is, it's not enough to work hard for the degree, and some people manage to skip that part entirely. It takes a combitnation of talent, skill, hard work and wit to make a successful career.
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There is no best major it's all relative to what you want to do. I'm a computer information systems and security major, I learned coding, database management and system analysis on one end, network security and business skills on the other. It is all a lot of work because most of the time your dealing in college with new systems and programs, but in the real world your dealing with what ever system your employer uses(dinosaurs still exist). You have to be able to adapt and be efficient at reading other peoples work, and most of the time getting their work to actually work. Pay is always different based on what line of work you go down after college. If your in it only for the money; your better off else where because you got to enjoy what you are going to potentially do everyday till you possibly retire or hit the lotto. This field gives you a lot of paths to go down, but each has there own set of headaches and problems. As stated above, you can skate buy by being cleaver but it is a ton of work if you want to excel at this field as there is a ton of knowledge to have to retain if you don't want to spend hours doing one project.
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I'm just giving you the most honest answer I can. The biggest point I will make from web development, to pretty much every field in a computer major you will code. The only ways out of it is data entry which is pretty much all you do is enter forms into a system all day(was my job in college very boring), or you look away from the computer heavy side and go more art heavy like graphic art. I have a few people that are doing mainly hardware based stuff and they tell me they remember coding classes as well.
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Even being out of profession for a few years, I still remember and use that skills. I create complex spreadsheets with macros, write batch scripts, write simple applications in Delphi, C++, php, create custom CSS, sometimes at work, but all for my personal use, at times just to perform one-time task. It just help make my life easier and still enjoy what I always loved in computer science.
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Its how I felt when I started, I was self taught in css/html at an early age, and it spread from there to python and other forms of coding. When you can not only use your skills for a professional job, but also in your daily life it's a really nice feeling.
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Perl ninja, LMAO :D
And yes, there are times, though rare, when you can actually feel like that.
My colleagues at work have to do complicated arithmetical calculations, based on variable number of variables and with variable number of results to calculate fee for occupying the road plot. Once, they were doing it with a calculator. Then they moved to spreadsheet, but still had to input large number of sub-formulas every time, because there are hundreds of formula permutations. They once asked me how this could be improved, so I said, if you want to keep it in excel, you need a macro. Few days later I saw them trying to understand "hello world" example in VBS. So I wrote the macro between my daily tasks, and when I took it to them I explained what every line of code does. You should see their faces, I felt like a genius for a few moments, even though it was a trivial programming task.
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Information technology would be similar to my major, I can't speak on the exact differences but there will be a good amount of over lap. No idea about graphic.
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Sounds a lot like what I'm currently doing.
I've found that I have a major interest in IT security as well as music & film production and even game design, all while studying based on having learned networking technology and painting in the past. You just need to flourish to find where you fit, don't limit yourself choosing by potential salary, no one lasts long where he does not belong.
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I have a degree in Computer Programming and Data Processing now. I think the things I'm seeing now, I'd say webpage designing or other graphic arts. If you wanna live in a big city or do already, you may want to consider film technology. There's a lot to be learned there and you can find a lot of opportunities in different aspects of filming. My nephew does this and works in California. He keeps busy and makes good money.
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Currently, nothing. I am now evaluating things, and trying to figure out what I truly want to do.
Though, I did study within the Network stream of Computers, so, probably why I hate it now lol, I originally was going to do Programming, but never saw a steady career in it, not here anyway.
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What did you enjoy in programming when you started? Because I am dealing with it for a half yea nowr and I still love programming so much.
EDIT: Oh wait, you didn't say programming, I usually automatically assume someone did programming when he says computers. XD
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Trust me, don't do anything with computer Resons
-LOW PAY
-HARD TO FOUND JOBS
-YOU WILL HAVE NO LIFE(JOKES)
-Probably going to wear glass(after looking and computer screen all day)
-Probably going to work late night for years.
There really hard to found good jobs to support your family, but if you really enjoy it and want to do it everyday for you rest of your life, around 162974 Hours of same thing.
Facts: Top paid and with jobs need is "Doctor" (Any Medical Area) <-- Get paid alot even if you work 2 day a week.
UnknownEMC
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I was planning to, but in the end I decided to do self-study, and after a month I already started developing games. (that is if you after programming because you enjoy it and not just after the money)
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If you are into computers because you play a lot of games or you know how to pirate or to install a program you better rethink. Now If you re not this kind of OMG I KNOW CoD SO I KNOW HOW TO COMPUT, then i dont really know what you should choose,its up to you and it depends were you live and what you like.
Personally im studying Telecommunication Systems and Network Engineering.
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"If you are into computers because you play a lot of games or you know how to pirate or to install a program" sounds like me.
And for sake of argument, a person who never touched a computer in his whole life, doesn't understand the and/or don't like computers, can still study programming, be really good at it and really enjoy it.
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I agree. But from going from gaming to a computer university is a big deal. Its better to have an idea on what you are going to study so you know that you like it and you can pull it through rather than going with the logic of, i play a lot of pc games i spent my day on the pc, so i ll go study computers. Thats what im trying to say...
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Well, that's true.
Tho I went to programming mostly because I like video games, but that was mostly because I'm a person who is more into creating than consuming. And I also thought I would like the practice of programming itself. (Tho surprisingly it turned out that I love programming then I would ever thought so)
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That person, that has never touched a computer, will be so behind everyone else at the beginning that they will make things 10x harder. I saw kids like that when I went to school and they were trying to figure out how to open a program, while we were programming away. Of course it can be done, but good luck to anyone that tries it. No foundation to build off from means you need to build the foundation first. Not a lot of fun.
I remember seeing this one kid that had pretty much never turned one on in his life. On the first day of this programming class he was just sitting there stunned the whole time. This kid next to me pointed him out and was like look at him, he doesn't even know how to get into a text editor. He isn't going to make it to the end of the quarter.
He didn't.
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Well, that means he just had learning problems if he couldn't jut open a program which is all that is needed. But to learn programming itself and do it requires absolutely no computer knowledge.
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You're right, it does, but you will be behind for a very long time. It is one of those things that it really, really helps to know a lot about what you are doing, before you get there.
People that have never actually learned it, wouldn't understand what I mean, which is why some people think it is cake until they get there. With hard work, some can succeed. Some won't because it is too hard and some will realize that they should have figured out what it was before they got there. I am basing this off from having actually witnessed it go down a number of times.
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Well, yeah, it is obviously something that hold you back, but all I was talking about was programming theoretically, not the technical expertise around it.
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You know who is making money in IT fields?
The guy with a business degree who is your boss.
Don't believe me? Ask Dilbert, he'll tell ya...
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Lucky for me i do a study called "Business IT and management!" :D
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Pretty much my degree. Problem is, my program lacked in technical training, and no one wants to hire you as an IT Manager without some experience in IT jobs, which I don't have enough training to do besides some shitty helpdesk or low level programming.
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Sounds like what MIS was at my school. Management Information Systems. You spent half the time learning Business crap that you would never need and the other half learning behind the times programming that you would never need. The problem was that it was taught in the business school, which was nice, don't get me wrong. I think we were like 75th in the US in business, so it wasn't like some crap program. The problem is that business schools shouldn't be teaching that kind of stuff.
I stuck with the computer school there, thankfully, which was one of the top ones in the nation. It was embarrassing how much of a difference there was between the Computer Science/IT programs and the Business Computing ones. It really wasn't even close. The sad thing was, the people would be competing for the same jobs. They were learning stuff in like the second or third year of the MIS program that people would have been learning in the first year of the IT or CS programs. In some cases, it was stuff that was below learning in either of those programs. The computer school should have been teaching the business students and they could have just learned the business side at the business school.
They think too highly of the business side in the business school, leaving the technical side lacking. Just like what happened to you. The business stuff could be learned in no time flat. The computer stuff, not so much so. People would be better off doing straight up computer degrees or even better, double major, but use only the computer school stuff for your main credits related to the technical requirements.
This was years back, though. I'm 29 at this point and they were actually adding in better programs when I left, which made me mad. They added a separate web design program, split the IT program to basically give networking its own degree, and they were adding some other stuff. I'm sure they have improved it all a lot since I have been there, but I still think the MIS degree would be lacking. I don't even have to look at a course list to figure that out. I'm glad I never actually went for one. The computer school will always be the safest bet for anything computing. You can split off later, but it builds the foundation to get the job.
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Yup. Similar story, similar time frame. I realized it wasn't for me in my last year there, but finished it anyway. Now I'm 31 and don't know what I want to be when I grow up and am just floating along working shitty hourly jobs that don't even need a degree.
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Got a masters degree in computer science, statistics & cybernetics.
About money I can't tell you much since it depends from one country to another.
However, from what I see here, if you like it and you are willing to learn you can make an average of 5-600 euros as a student or graduate and go up to 1k in less than 2 years as a software engineer/tester/DB dev.
For DB & network administration you get less.
As a web dev you make a lot but it depends on how many contracts you have and how big they are. Web dev is not that well payed here but all my friends that work as freelancers get at least 1k euros/month.
Game dev is well payed but it's a lot of work to do.
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In a few months time i will have to apply for a university and i am really into computers so, i am just wondering what is the best degree/major right now for computers and how much money will i earn and is it easy or hard.
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