Add more support member because it takes ages (1 year for a simple ticket) to solve the tickets instead changing the point system every week.
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A marginal improvement but a disappointing update for me. I was hoping after the controversy the new system had caused, some things to revert back to the old system, but I see the philosophy has remained the same.Visiting the website just isn't as much fun as it used to be.
I'd every so often take a break from the headache of work to check the site and enter giveaways on games I sometimes didn't even know existed. There was a sense of wonder and discovery. Now, visiting the website just feels like more work. I take a break from work to visit, manage my points and see if I should spend them on a different giveaway than the one I entered. It's pretty boring, nothing like what it used to be.
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I haven't read all the posts in this thread, so I'm sorry if it is a repeat.
But what happens, when I got points from a deleted GA, spend them on other GAs until I have 0 points and after that, the deleted GA is undeleted?
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Why not set the limit of points to 420 and call it a day? I want my points to have style.
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Amazing adjustment! With this fine tuning I am more than happy with the changes! Also - getting the points back from deleted giveaways was a long needed thing and I am glad that it happened. Now I visit the site every 2 hours and not every hour - which is in the spirit of what you wanted to implement @cg! ^^ Cheers and all the best!
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Nowhere near the vast supply of points we used to have, but it's a nice step towards a compromise.
Thanks for listening, cg. :)
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If you want to stock points, enter giveaways here and remove your entries one day before : https://www.steamgifts.com/giveaways/search?page=15
But seriously, it will be problematic i think.
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or store then for weeks https://www.steamgifts.com/giveaways/search?page=37
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Funny how you point to a specific page, but no one has the same giveaways available to them so that particular page means nothing to most people. (I currently have 2 pages of giveaways available to me)
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I'm guessing the comment he replied to did the same thing anyway. For me it would be page 60 since I don't hide anything and only check wishlist/recommended regardless.
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well thats because i dont buy all the crap that is on steam so i see a bunch of crap games in sg.
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Some people also hide the crap so they don't see it. :P
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Yep, for example I hide so I can make a solid decision if wanting a game or not, and easier to find new, interesting games on the list without the clutter I haven't ever joined :)
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Well, probably some users will be triggered, but I think that much bigger problem than banking points is that people entering giveaways whenever they want to play it or not.
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If banking points is actually encouraged now, why not just remove the cap altogether to remove the micromanaging aspect. It's a horrible change regardless, but at least this way it would be 100% official ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Added new 96 ponts daily, its enogh?
Why not depending to levels?
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So doesn't solve the underlying issues that makes this still inferior to what we originally had last month.
Quite literally, all they needed was the old system with Captchas and it should have been fine. This does nothing to stop bots and the ones controlling them won't care because they aren't there and will just tweet them to handing the new system if not just leave them as is and keep going.
Still need a poll to see what the users think as a whole.
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after thinking it for a while, i would rather have no refunds for removed entries (give them 10 minutes to remove entries and get points back), just a plain increased point regen.
no more silly banking, no more wasted time.
simplify the system, don't make it more convoluted and "force" users to play with it to enter more giveaways.
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Yes agreed, exactly my thoughts too. It's just silly to reward people for strategically banking points without limit.
Slightly increase the rengeration - probably all you need is like 7 or 8 points every 15 minutes .. considering it's feels quite a differet from 5 to 6 already, And do NOT give back points from removed entries unless...
- the entries are removed automatically after winning.
- the giveaway was deleted
People will whine ... they will not like it. But eventually they will realize, that we're all better off without some folks hoarding points and everyone thinking twice about which giveaways they really want to enter. They will also learn that preserving a few points for short term giveaways might be a good idea. Think about it like that: when you buy a lottery ticket, you also can't go back to the vendor and ask for a refund every time you see another lottery with better chances.
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Sounds good on paper, but after thinking about it for a while it has serious drawbacks. The reason being that most giveaways have very high variation in # of entries, and they don't always make logical sense. Doesn't help either that a lot of bots enter during the final 30 seconds of every giveaway. And for some giveaways, those that last several hours end up with less entries than the flash giveaways. Meaning that even with solid experience using the site, it's hard to know your final odds at the time of entry - meaning that if your suggestion is implemented, everyone will be forced to wait until the last possible moment to join any GA, not to mention if there is a 'x minute grace period' this allows bots to continuously shuffle points while normal users have no chance of doing that. And if it turns out that a giveaway is overpopulated, you're now stuck with it, whereas in the old system you could at least bail and find a better giveaway to spend those points on.
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Seems like banks should be limited to, say, +100 over the max (so 500). Otherwise, you're clearly trying to game the system and accrue tons of points so you can enter more giveaways (at the chosen moment) than others who have better things to do with their time. And does this mean that now we'll have bank bots whose job it is to enter and leave high-point GAs at the optimal point to bank as many points as possible?
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I am happy with 500 points cap, why it is 400 now :(
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I really don't get what all the complaints regarding point banking and this update are about...
Lets say, you actually bank your whole points for a month waiting for the new monthly (or whatever), nothing really changes. You wait for the GAs to drop, enter as many as you can, until you reach 0, leave a few naked GAs and repeat. You could now theoretically leave all banked GAs at once, but why would you ever do that. It's doubtful there are immediately enough GAs available to use them up at once in such a case(one month of points being at 17k+ points), so you would only stop your point generation, which is something, I highly doubt, someone who actually takes the time for this kind of point usage (lets call it) optimization, would do.
Also, most likely these people would also be using one of the many scripts available for this site, most likely with quick enter buttons and the like, so the difference in effort, between leaving all banked GAs at once or only a few at a time and the entering GAs, would be minimal in any case.
Anyway, when it comes to the point banking i personally don't care either way, If someone doesn't find anything to enter he is interested in, I think it is still better to do this, then enter something they are not really interested in, just to avoid "loosing" points.
Just my 2 cents, regarding an issue I don't really see as one at all. If one is against the point banking in general, there can be some points made for sure, but this update doesn't do anything in either direction.
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Points banking and refunds are overblown.
Assuming we don't cap, we all have the same points to spend over any given time period. Whether the point cap is 300/400/500, it is high enough that we don't have to worry about it capping while we sleep which takes away one big advantage of bots who could enter more giveaways than the average joe because they never cap.
For all the people crying about point banking or how points should never be refunded, I'd be willing to bet that like me, if I'm low on points and an expensive flash giveaway or two or a string of them pops up, they will "borrow" points from other giveaways ending later and re-enter them when they get more points later. Those of us normal people who do this occasionally would be penalized to combat the boogeyman that is the "serial point banker".
Frankly, the way people are describing this mysterious "point banker" doesn't make a whole lot of sense. So this guy saves up a bunch of points and enters a mass of giveaways all at once to great advantage. Now, isn't that guy now completely out of points? Not much of a point banker anymore. And doesn't this make the odds better on every other giveaway he didn't have the points to enter including the ones he left?
Whether one spends them as they come, or saves them for giveaways they want more that are coming up, we all end up with the same points to spend (if none of us caps). I don't see a problem here.
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If you want to fit in around here you're going to have to stop being so logical and reasonable ;-)
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Points banking greatly advantages those who enter GAs once a year wink-wink
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You are "disadvantaging" yourself for 364 other days kinda makes up for that xD
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big +1
The wild fantasies blowing the whole thing way out of proportion are perplexing..
and any 'countermeasures' will only hurt normal users.
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I said it before and I'll say it again:
The points keep coming ^.^
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So, CG basically said "Yes!" to point bankers. So when the sale comes, the only ones who will get real advantage are them.
Nicely done -_-
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The only way to bank points is to forego entering giveaways now, thus increasing the odds for everyone else. Everything works out in the wash.
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You'd have a point, if there was an equal amount and quality of giveaways at all times. But that's not the case, on days when there's a new interesting bundle or when there's Humble Monthly revealed, we usually see more giveaways and maybe (according to one's taste) more interesting ones. So yes, those who forgo some of their chances now to hoard and bank points will have better chances then. Should we really reward people abusing long term giveaways to store points?
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Firstly the rules of the game are the same for everyone, so can hardly be called "abuse".
Secondly, the "quality of giveaways" is totally subjective. What you think of as a quality game is not the same for everyone.
For every person who avoids entering a giveaway i'm in today, means I have a better chance to win it. So i'm grateful to them for putting their points somewhere else -- it's a good thing.
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Firstly the rules of the game are the same for everyone, so can hardly be called "abuse".
While the rules are the same for everyone, it's not like everyone is willing or has the time to get the most out of that system. And yes, entering a giveaway for something you have zero interest in, just because it's long term and takes up a lot of your points, just so you can pull back those points later for something you really want to win, that's a form of abuse.
Secondly, the "quality of giveaways" is totally subjective. What you think of as a quality game is not the same for everyone.
Of course it is subjective, but there will always be titles that are more sought-after than others. Do we really need to reward those, who strategically shift around their points (possibly even use a bot to do so) in order to increase their chances at some point?
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Have you ever changed your mind about entering a GA? That's what we're talking about giving up in the name of stopping people who are using their points as they see fit. What do you care what someone else does with their points... really?
Every one of us has been out of points when a new GA has been posted of something we really hope to win. It is very nice in that situation to be able to leave a GA you want less in order to jump into that much more desirable GA.
You have done it. We all have.
Please stop this huge uproar over something so innocuous as moving points from one GA into another.
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We're not talking about changing one's mind about a giveaway or two. We're talking about some folks excessively moving around points in order to bank them and pull them back in case they "need" them.
Of course it is nice when you're able to redistribute some points in case there's a new giveaway for something you really like to win, but it also creates a problem that some people can redistribute more than others - especially when they automate the whole process with a script.
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don't worry, i'm sure script users will be punished with 3-5 days suspensions so they can fix their scripts over and over again till they are undetected <3
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Sigh.
Please make a concrete suggestion about how to curb this behavior you despise without hurting the people who even you agree are doing nothing wrong. In my estimation, you're trying to solve a non-problem. But I will keep an open mind if you can craft a solution that doesn't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
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Okay, look at it like that: currently we have two kinds of SG users, the ones who have their points capped at 400P and the ones who don't, because they constantly redistribute and shuffle them around. You may argue, having no cap doesn't give them any extra points or extra chances at winning, fine. Fact is they have no cap. But then, why have a cap at all? Let's just remove the cap. Everyone may hoard or spend as much points as they get. If they choose to not enter any giveaways for 3 weeks and then spend several thousand points in one day, so be it. According to your logic, they wouldn't have any advantage in doing that. At least, that way, the playing field would be even, we wouldn't reward people for joining giveaways they're not even interested in just so they can withdraw the points later on.
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But currently if you want to bank you need to invest time and clicks which generate income from ads
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I pretty much doubt, that the add income even compensates for the extra load created by folks entering and leaving giveaways just to bank points. I know enough about advertising to know that just displaying ad banners doesn't pay much if anything at all, usually people would need to click on them and even then Google also has some serious algorithms to determine the value of the click and filter out automated ones for example. Folks using an ad blocker or those who do their banking via script thus wouldn't generate any ad income at all.
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It is ridiculous in the extreme to cavalierly dismiss the sites business methods because you can't stand the idea that someone shuffles some points around.
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Shrug, I just can't get worked up about this. Even if they do save up all their points and use them all on a single day that means they didn't enter into any giveaways for 3 weeks -- increasing the odds for everyone else to win during that time -- it just doesn't matter. Let them use their points however they want and use yours however you want. Live and let live.
And you still haven't done anything but complain. What is your solution that doesn't make the site suck for everyone else while you try to stop this behavior that you disagree with? There are very many valid reasons to exit a GA and enter another one as mentioned by others in this thread (belated region restrictions, partial ownership prohibitions, shifting odds, etc.)
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As I said, my "solution" would be to remove the cap. That way, nobody would be forced to put their points into giveaways they aren't even interested in order to save them for later. Seriously, what's the point of having a cap when some folks can just stretch it indefinitely?
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There is a reason for the cap, so that people have an incentive to visit the site each day and spend the points that they have accumulated. So unless you have a way to replace that incentive, you haven't found a workable solution.
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Very well, if your only concern is that people wouldn't visit the site on a daily basis, just stop their point regeneration unless they:
- enter at least one giveaway OR
- create one giveaway OR
- leave one comment
within 24 hours.
Or you could increase point regeneration slightly and not refund points for leaving a giveaway (or maybe not fully). There would be whining. But eventually folks would learn to use their points more wisely and enter only for stuff they really want to win and learn to put aside some points for short term giveaways.
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https://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/rgtRD/updated-changes-to-point-system/search?page=2#tLatSoM
Direct quote from cg.
The issue you mention is a relatively minor issue for the majority of people using the site. A cap is there just to stop people coming on once a month and entering everything and it encourages people to come on the site once in a while to use the points. Its a balancing act between spending all your time on the site but allows more casual users who come on every few days a more level playing field than before the changes.
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Pardon me if I don't see the "great advantage" these banking users have. So they bank points to save them exclusively for Humble Monthlies and the "most desirable" games. Aren't these then also some of the most popular giveaways with the most entries?
You act like saving up for these "desirable" games guarantees a giveaway win. The truth is these are also the games with some of the least chance of winning because of the number of entries. And what happens when they shoot their load on the monthlies? Now they are out of points and have to start hoarding them for the next one. Meanwhile, that is less entries for everyone else for the rest of the month.
At the end of the day, they get the same points we do. If they want to waste their time micromanaging what to spend their points on, that is on them. I still don't see how this somehow greatly disadvantages anyone else.
I really do not think you have thought this through very well. And to bring up bots of all things...
People with bots aren't going to waste their time banking for monthlies. They are the ones looking for low entry flash giveaways that most of us will miss because we do not check in every hour especially when we are sleeping. Bots are a problem, but not related to banking at all. And to disadvantage the 99% of normal users by locking in all entries (even those where a giveaway creator adds region restrictions after the fact or clarifies he doesn't want people to enter for just the DLC), hurts everyone else to solve a problem that isn't there.
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It’s not only about public monthlies gas, but also about having enough points for fast, long forum gas, where you really have an advantage as others can’t join that much in the short time and entries will be low.
But I think this is a valid strategy and it was way easier before the change (as you could Bank way more points, while others who wouldn’t find anything interesting stayed at 300 the hole time and lose extras)
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I just don't think that having more points available during sudden rushes of giveaways is really as much of an advantage as everyone seems to portray it as. Those with less points are still going to be entering what they consider the "juiciest", meaning that if "extreme bankers" get any kind of advantage, it's on the runts of the litter so to speak.
But everyone has a strategy, be it entering as many flash giveaways as they can find (without using a bot); only entering the highest level giveaways available; searching out all the trains or whatever. One could claim that any of these things are giving people a leg up. I'm personally not all that worried how everyone else is choosing to use their points. If someone is really worried about any of these strategies, they have the power to do the same.
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Have you thought about "negative points"? As someone would enter giveaway worth 50P, that's later deleted & but he/she continued to spend new points added to account. In the moment of un-deleting the he/she would have 10P, so un-deleting would put him/her into -40P. Is this possible?
6P is better than 5P per 15min.
But still think that Points should be allocated with Level. More Level, means more Points to get in 15min. So that would motivate people to give in more! ;)
Also, returning to 400P or 16,6h is reversing what you wanted in 1st place: making people come here once per day. So in order to do that, two things have to be met:
- Making minimum time for a gift of 1 day, as it will give all people a chance to enter, as they would enter once per day!
Why? Well somebody, who is frequent here, spent points almost to 0. & when some great game with 50 or 60P arrive, I have to get out of long term gifts (in a few days) to get the Points for this new game that ends in 1h. That's why you have so much of us here, as we don't want to miss those deals! ;) - Increasing Points to 20h, which means 480P at least, so that people can really get here once per day.
Hope this helps out. ;)
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Negative points are already taken into account, read topic again ^^
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Point Refunds for Deleted Giveaways : Deleted giveaways are generally quite rare and it is fair to accumulate them over 400P cap.
Removing Giveaway Entries : While I don't see the point of allowing players to accumulate points above the 400P cap themselves, storing and moving points on giveaways that ends in several weeks was already possible, anyway.
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I once missclicked and remove my entry from a game instead of entering and „lost“ 50 points because of that
Now that wouldn’t be the case anymore
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And after a longer time with new system i just can say that the site became boring for me... i know when i get points and when i reach cap... before i was in the forum while waiting for new points because the amount was more "random" for me... :(
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Hi SG,
There have been some revisions to the point system today, following up on yesterday's discussion.
Point Refunds for Deleted Giveaways
When a giveaway is deleted, points will now be returned to every user that entered. If you already have the maximum of 400P, you will receive points above the limit. For example, if you had 390P, and a giveaway you entered for 50P was deleted, you would then have 440P available. As expected, since you would be above the 400P cap, you would not receive additional points every 15 minutes until you dropped below 400P.
If a giveaway is undeleted, the opposite will occur, and points will be removed from your account if you previously entered. For example, in the above situation you had 440P after the 50P giveaway was deleted. If you continued to enter giveaways until 360P and the giveaway was then undeleted, you would drop to 310P, since you would once again have a 50P entry in that giveaway. In a rare situation where you used most of your points, and only had 10P available, the undeleted giveaway would lower you to -40P.
Removing Giveaway Entries
If you remove a giveaway entry, you can now also receive points above the cap. This means if you have 380P, and you remove two 15P giveaway entries, you will have 410P available. You would then remain at this amount until the points are spent.
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