As long as we can be sure that the majority of gifters will set a decent price instead of defaulting even Fortix to 100p, I would be fine with this idea. I actually think it is a very good idea.
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So I could post 50 fortix/other cheap games giveaways at 20 points each and drain the point economy. A bunch of people blow their points on these giveaways and now cannot enter for higher value games. Then I would be free to enter those other giveaways knowing a bunch of people blew most of their points on cheap games.
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Yes if someone puts up Skyrim for 300p everyone will save up so there needs to be a mod who checks to see if it is legit...BUT if someone does that they would probably give us a reasonable time to save up like a week so there would be plenty of time to check if its not a scam. And if it is a scam then instant ban
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How about instead of adding in a way to increase the buy-in price of a give away we just lower the number of points available? Wouldn't you agree that would be much simpler and require much less work while still being an adequate solution to your problem?
If you decide to argue against this point though, please specify what problem we are trying to solve here. Makes it significantly easier for everyone involved to argue a point if we know exactly what the problem is.
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"We are solving the people who have too many points and enter for every giveaway and the too many entries in every giveaway so you never win" problem...
This was just an idea how would you lower the number of points available I would like to see your ideas?
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So the problem you are attempting to solve is... The surplus of people entered into all giveaways, correct?
You'd like to see my ideas? Did you read what I said? Reduce the number of points sent out by the creation of a giveaway and you effectively increase the opportunity cost of every giveaway on the site.
I'd say adjust it to 5% of points instead of 10% and see how that works out. It would effectively mean half as many people signing up for every giveaway.
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even if you lower the number of points available, people still will abuse the system because there are so many giveaways being entered right now. I heard people stock up on points by entering many giveaways that are set to end in quite a while and then withdraw from them when their points reach a max of 300 from the points created by the system when new giveaways are entered. Some people have claimed to have collected more than 1000 points on these forums... lowering the number of points is NOT the solution. Not in this case anyway.
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This doesn't make sense. If the amount of points gained was lowered people wouldn't be able to stockpile so many.
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So what you are asking for is a points wipe? Lowering the number of points generated would still lower the number of people entering any single giveaway. The people who have stockpiled up points using this method would either have to lose their surplus points (Easily done by simply kicking everyone out of every giveaway, so people using this method get stuck at the cap of 300 points) or have the advantage of having effectively more points than they did before (Increased scarcity of points begets an increased value of points)
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+1 I like the idea. It increases the chance of winning to those really interested in playing the game the gifter is giving away. It also adds more customization to the giveaway itself so the gifter feels more comfortable at the time of sending out the gift to the winner.
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i dont like it, it would mean people that stickpiled points will win and you wont be able to enter because you entered other giveaways you wanted. Instead i suggest a method of paying x2 points and x3 points for 3 chances to win this way other people that enter still have a chance too.
This way people who really want the game could have more entries thus more chance of winning.
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I don't understand your arguement. Don't the people who stockpiled their points (weren't interested in any games that were up or chose not to enter so they could have more points for a game they really wanted) deserve to enter? they earned their points just like everyone else.
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i have 300 points stockpiled, when a giveaway comes up that i dont own i enter it, the reason i have 300p stockpiled is because i have all the other giveaway games and i cant enter them.
With your way people who want the game wont be able to enter, my way people who really want the game get to enter and have a better chance, people without enough points to enter many times still have a chance too.
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Got to agree with this. The only reason people are even able to enter so many giveaways for games they don't really want is because of all the HIB and Dirt 3 giveaways going on. When that stuff gets taken care of this wouldn't even be a problem.
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What the fuck for? Seems like having the point value reflect the monetary value is the only logical way to do it.
You seem to place your own giveaways at a higher value, setting such absurd regulations for them. Right now you have a 38% feedback. I'm not really sure what you are still even doing here.
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I guess if you really wanted to and they implemented it then go for it. It just seems completely pointless because the only result will be less people entering the giveaway at your absurd point value.
There just really is no logical reason for this.
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Using your example of a 125 point Terraria giveaway... I could skip your ridiculous giveaway and enter 12 others. Seems like I would have better chances elsewhere.
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I don't think you understand how probabilities work...
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Say only 100 people join your 125 point Terraria giveaway. That is a 1/100 chance to win. Now if i take my 125 points and join 12, 10 point giveaways with 600 people in them my chances of winning at least one of those giveaways is roughly 2/100.
Theoretically you could assume that the 100 people that joined your giveaway couldn't afford to join the other 12, decreasing the amount of people in the each of the giveaways I entered by 100, and further increasing my odds of winning one of them.
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true but you are assuming that when this system is implemented, you will be able to find 12, 10 point giveaways. :) I think that if this were implemented, people who really cared about giving their game to someone who would enjoy it, would actually beef up the points required to enter a giveaway. Hence, you might not be able to find 12, 10 point giveaways to enter, except maybe if fortix or humble bundles (I don't think quite a few (not all) of those giveaways were made by people who care about people enjoying their game)...
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time and time again kijib has proven that he has a completely illogical sense of everything.
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The other Terraria giveaways likely have 1000+ entries however as their so cheap, whereas his Terraria giveaway probably has less then 100 entries with most people going after the cheaper options. You're effectively paying a point premium in exchange for a better chance to win.
Your choice whether more giveaways with poorer odds per giveaway is better/worse then less giveaways with significantly better odds per giveaway.
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Even with each of the 12 giveaways at 1000 entries the odds of winning one of them are still about 1.2/100, better than the odds of entering 1 giveaway with 100 people in it.
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Assuming there are 12 other giveaways, perhaps there are only 3 others?
No way of telling how many there will be. You're always going to be weighing the odds, and I suspect there generally won't be enough other giveaways except in the cases of something like the current Dirt 3 handouts that there will be a sufficient number of other giveaways to outweigh the lesser entrants in the single costly giveaway.
This is all hypothetical though, unless implemented we can't be certain exactly how many entries there would be in a 125pt Terraria. I tend to expect it would be relatively few however, and I don't recall there ever being 12 simultaneous Terraria giveaways going on. Have there even been that many in total? If you really want that Terraria now the 125pt giveaway with few entrants could be quite appealing.
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Excellent points, Rand. didn't see your post there. ;) Kudos.
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I'm just giving the odds. It just seems like a simpler solution would to be decrease the total amount of points available. Or rather wait it out until the HIB codes dwindle down.
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I'd be fine with that as well, though I favor this. Incidentally there is another thread when a ton of popularity for boosting the maximum number of points.
That I definitely oppose as it would seem to largely defeat the entire purpose of implementing the point system to being with.
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It is to hard to tell right now with the abundance of Dirt 3 and HIB giveaways. Once the site becomes more full of "real" giveaways we will see whether the amount of points needs to rise, decrease, or remain the same. I know Cult has shown his distaste for the points that the HIB giveaways generate so I wouldn't be surprised if something gets done about it. Although since HIB3 has ended they should dwindle down on their own eventually anyway.
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Your numbers are based purely on assumptions though... do you have any statistics to justify the probabilities you are suggesting? You are assuming that the 125 point giveaway will have 100 entries... based on what, exactly? What if it has 50 entries? Then all your probability calculations will actually prove kijib's point...
just as a side note: the probability of winning is based on the number of people who enter and not the points; the number of people who enter is determined by the points (price) and whether that person really wants that game (demand). As in any free market economy, the price sets the number of people who will demand that product.
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It is all hypothetical as I mentioned above, none of us know for certain how popular a 125Pt Terraria giveaway would be. The only relative certainty is that it would be less popular then a 10pt one.
How many giveaways there are and how many entries at any given value isn't something any of us can know so we're left with our own educated guesses based on what we've seen thus far.
Whatever the end result is, we can all calculate the odds at that time and spend our points as we feel appropriate depending on how desperate we are for that one costly game.
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What if there are 200 entries? Then my point becomes stronger. There has to be some speculation at this point so I took a shot and guessed 100. Who is to say there wouldn't be even more than that?
As for your "side note", you don't really seem to understand what I was doing with the probability calculations.
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At 200 entrants I suspect most people would begin dropping out of that costly giveaway. A 1 in 200 chance of winning is very unlikely to make it worth 125 points for people unless their constantly hovering around the 300pt maximum.
I'm reasonably certain that few people are.
At this point we're all just arguing pure hypotheticals however.
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Absolutely. I was just tossing out another number. h4r5h4v3ng3r assumed that since I was using a hypothetical situation that the amount entered would certainly be lower. I just wanted to point out the hypocrisy in using an assumption to call out an assumption.
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No I assumed no such thing! I said it COULD be lower and not as you suggested... i.e. there are two sides to the coin... it could be as you said and that the numbers would justify your claims... however it could also turn out to be the other way round... that is all I said... Oh and by the way I have not yet decided whether I am for or against this, if your animosity towards me is stemming from the belief that I am supporting this proposal...
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exactly, it is purely hypothetical... also, when people begin to drop out, the number of entrant will dwindle down to a level where people will feel comfortable with the probability of winning they will have...
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my side note was to give insight on how the number of people entering the giveaway might change based on the cost on entry and how badly people want the game. I understood fully what you were doing with your calculations, but,as you said, you speculated that the numbers would support your points... I merely suggested that the numbers might be quite different and support kijib's proposal instead (and used the side note to give my reasoning for it). ;)
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Your side note just said that a higher point value giveaway would have less entrants. Nobody contested this ever.
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"Your side not just said that a higher point value giveaway would have less entrants. Nobody contested this ever." the first sentence doesn't make sense? You get this for not being coherent, not for arguing on the internet :)
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The only potencial issue I see would be a possible exploit to save more than 300 pts. All one would have to do is set up a fortrix giveaway fpr 300 pts (something no one would probably enter) and enter it themselves. Then, when they are low on points, withdraw from the giveaway and be instantly given 300 pts. This could also be done amoungst friends who would give positive feedback regardless of wheather or not they received any sort of game compansation. Other than this exploit (which I can't think of a good way to prevent), I really like this idea. I hope the powers that be take note and build upon the idea of a way to increase te ability to get games one really cares for.
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You cannot enter your own giveaway?!? Also, as you, yourself, agreed, this type of exploitation cannot be prevented even in the current system; in fact a couple of days back, someone wrote in the forums about spending 1000+ points in one day on a certain game... how do you think that was possible?
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NOTE: I am neither saying I agree or disagree with it, I am merely adding suggestions should such an idea actually be considered.
2cents: One thing being forgot is the opposite direction of people giving games for lower amount of points because they want more people to have a chance at winning, this could break the system by allowing people to give away heaps of things with little or no points to enter causing an inflation.
Answer: For a lower than usual amount the base amount must be at least 10 points and points can only be lowered by 50% max. eg. 10 point giveaway max lowered to 5 points, 300 point giveaway max lowered to 150 points.
Also since people are worried some people will give away cheaper games at a higher price to exploit unknowing people and drain the point economy to give an advantage to themselves: Two answers: One: A notification pointing out the point price is higher and by how much. Two: A limit to how much a person can increase the amount of points required, maybe at 5 times the usual amount? Meaning 1 point games could be limited at 5 points, 10 point games at 50 points, 20 at 100, 50 at 250. That should prevent too much exploitment and should keep entries to people who really want the game which was the point of this idea.
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Good idea, but it should have a maximum limit something like the game value in points x5.
ex: terraria - 10p x5 = 50p maximum amount that can be set by the gifter
I think that we need this cause it will be absurd to charge people with 250p for a game like fortix or a dlc.
ex: lets say you wait a week to enter a game like fortix and you use all your points
In this case, we won't neet a maximum point cap like 300 if it still exists.
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If you will set it for 125 p.... people who will lose will be depressed why they didnt win... etc. (no srsly, they will get sad, or rage all over the place, or voodoo the gifter. LMAOJK)
(my english senses arent working. /shot)
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I recall actually suggesting this myself waaay back.
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Ohyeah will sometimes people remember things selfconciously or whatnot. And its possible I forgot about you and rethought this up and made the thread. Maybe if you were nicer to me I would care to remmember what you say.
So you agree with this idea then right? =P
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I'm going to set Fortix at 300 to troll people
Just kidding
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What do you guys think about letting the people who give away games set their own points above the default amount?
For example, let's say I want to gift Terraria. Terraria is a top selling game and tons of people want it, but I am worried that 10p is too low/easy for someone who doesn't even want the game to win it.
Whether we like it or not, sometimes our games go to people who simply entered because they had tons of points and then they play .1hrs of the game and are done with it.
Heres my idea: Let us increase the points needed as we see fit for the games we giveaway.
So when I gift Terraria...
It generates the same amount of points it normally would (1p) BUT instead I decide to set it for 125p
so someone who actually wants it and is willing to save up the points for it has a better chance.
AND EVEN BETTER: it lets you, the person who really wants to win the game stand a decent chance of winning. Eventually this site will have way more people and this would be a great way to limit entries.
Thoughts?
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