as long as it's a solid game (gameplay & story), I don't care.
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EA should do it more, we need more reasons to hate them.
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Agreed.
I disagree with ceildric on several points of spirituality and existence, but just dropping a half-assed one-liner demeaning religion/religious beliefs doesn't really contribute anything to the discussion.
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I believe in spiritualism-the core of Hinduism , the one only religion that never had any problem with creation of other religions . it saddens me that religions make us separate from each other . so I suppose there is no harm to create games with the religions that became cultures later on .
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Actually the three biggest Religions (Christianism, Judaism and Islamism) have more things in common that things that separate them. Sadly, some people prefer to focus on the differences more than on the similarities.
If not look at how much racism and some other execrable things are out there...
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meh, atheism is just another ism. its a religion like any other(just go to that chat about Jesus website and see the antitheist crusader trolls converting hethens by fire and sword).
Besides my god can kick your god's ass....he just doesn't feel the need to because its so obvious. science diety is weak, as soon as you guys manage to get your fanatics killed off in battle and stop crusading you'll lose all your steam.
Scientology is manipulating everybody so they'll be the only one left at the end to mop up survivors, they're the real enemy. Lets join forces. death to the heritic scientoligists...FOR SCIENCE!
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lol ALL religions are about manipulation... thats the point.
as for scientology, i like it... atleast they're having fun with it, what with the aliens and spaceships and whatever, its brilliant... i mean whats jesus got in comparison? other than his water into wine party trick :D
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What? Do you actually know what kind of religion scientology is? It has nothing to do with being an atheist or science in general.
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not that they have anything to do with them as organizations, that they have sleeper agents on youtube making puppets of atheists. why else do you see the super bowl scientoligist ads on the atheist videos? its all a conspiracy you see, so its no wonder you weren't aware of it.
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although I do kinda want to see a rts where the modern day new pope decides to take the holy land from those bickerig heathens and finally bring stability and god to that war blasted region. old pope retires, warrior pope rises and the Vatican empire.
Just off the top of my head but I feel like he'd have a jetpack.
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Huh..? What..? Seriously..?
The whole point of Atheism is that you've figured out that all religions are fake by design. How is that a religion?
What chat?
Your god can't do anything because it is an imaginary being.
And even if it did exist, it couldn't kick the ass of something that doesn't exist.
What's a "science diety"?
I can't comment on the fanatics and crusading, still trying to figure out what you mean.
If someone is clever enough to see through religion, they're likely to see through sects and scams as well.
No, thanks on the offer to join forces. Your manipulative religion is no better than that manipulative sect.
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Religion is about faith. Putting your faith in science is much the same as putting your faith into any other religions.
Many atheists believe in 'science' that is still largely unproven theories, and many will try to prove to you that it is fact, not theory, just like any Religion.
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I meant mostly the having to convert others to the "right" way of thinking/beliefs that the hard core antitheist guys get(the ones who sue people to make them take down easter decorations because rabbits offend their nongod. or who feel compelled into harassing random people because the thought of them dieing ignorant bothers him so much ect(you know, the crazies that get all the media)), but apparently nobody outside ohio gets the rather aggressive atheist ads or the silly ones about "Chataboutjesus.com" really weakly trying to fight back..so this pretty much went over like a lead balloon instead of an easy reference throwaway joke I was going for
but yeah, that too lol. I forgot about string theory.
(unrelated but speaking of string theory this one guy claimed to be atheist I ended up talking to on the bus(mistook me for my brother who is a religion major)and he pretty much accidentally invented wicca spiritualism one with nature stuff. "string theory means we're like all connected to everything" ect.. he wanted his atoms to disperse through nature so he could be a tree and a salmon when he died so he was going to get cremated and scattered near those things, and thought that was a non religious belief in not god instead of one of those decentralized nature spirit things.)
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"The patient typically finds himself impelled by some deep, inner conviction that something is true, or right, or virtuous: a conviction that doesn't seem to owe anything to evidence or reason, but which, nevertheless, he feels as totally compelling and convincing. We doctors refer to such a belief as 'faith'."
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Let me add a quote by Charles Bradlaugh. :D
"The atheist does not say 'there is no God', but he says 'I know not what you mean by God; I am without idea of God; the word 'God' is to me a sound conveying no clear or distinct affirmation.'... The Bible God I deny; the Christian God I disbelieve in; but I am not rash enough to say there is no God as long as you tell me you are unprepared to define God to me."
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Another person who has no respect for other people's beliefs. I just hope you don't expect people to respect your beliefs then. Even if you have none.
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I respect persons and their opinions. I wouldn't say I respect mental illness and symptoms that come with it like hallucinations, denial of reality, living in a fantasy world. Again: I don't disrespect persons because they suffer from religiosity or any other form of mental illness.
Personally I only have a problem when people try to shape the society I live in and make laws according to their religion.
Should homosexuality be legal, should abortions be, should women have the same rights as men, should they be forced to wear headscarfs and be executed if they don't, etc...? I'm willing to discuss ALL subjects openly and I'm constantly re-evaluating my opinions based on my level of information.
But "it should be done this way because Man In The Sky demands it"... come on, really? Do you really think that is a valid argument and do you really expect to be taken seriosly when you use it?
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Those issues that you enumerated - christians are not against them because "Man in the sky demands it". But because they're morally wrong. The other way around. Why "man in the sky" is against all those things? Because they're morally wrong. Chrisitans don't follow blindly their religion. They follow it because they like what it stands for. Basis of christianity are all about love and forgiveness, Jesus' life is what christianity stands for. He's christians' role model and their aim should be to be like Him. So... yeah.
I understand where you're coming from though. I respect that. I just don't like when people don't respect other's people beliefs. I'm a christian and some "religions" seem ridiculous to me but still... I respect that if some people believe in those things. I don't want to tell others what to believe in and how to live their lives.
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"I can totally live with that as long as nobody tries to force me to live by his/her self-imposed rules."
But isn't this exactly how most modern nation states maintain social order, even in the absence of any form of state sponsored religion?
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Wait what?
So this Bakunian anarchist society I thought I lived in is not true? I'm being ruled?
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An invisible dictatorship is still a dictatorship :)
Besides, absolute freedom is no freedom at all.
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Depends of how you define and what concept you have of freedom. It's generally misconcepted. And it has its limits and boundaries.
But anyways I was just being silly in my previous comment, we can still discuss though. I enjoy it.
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So am I to understand you don't have any laws, either?
I envy you in your crazy anarchist paradise, free from anyone trying to impose their rules on you. I thought this was part and parcel of all nation states, and a particularly popular pastime amongst politicians who would like to outlaw activities which do not fit their idea of an ideal social blueprint.
I guess I was mistaken, and wherever you live, everyone can do what they want, without fear of other people's ideals and norms being imposed on them. Must be a blast...
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Never said that. :D
Thought this thread was about religion not "would you like to see the current state of your society opposed to utopian societies discussed in more video games" which would most likely result in a general discussion rather than an exclusively video game related one. (Very much like this thread.^^)
But I certainly see a difference between Angela Merkel and Seyyed Ali Hosseini Khamenei, don't you? o.O
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Indeed, but few threads are still on topic this far down the page :D
Obviously a quick glance at history tells us that all social institutions (including religion) can be both excellent levers for people, or groups of people, to excert power over each other, and tools to effect positive social change (ie the American Civil Rights movement).
Religion, politics, the economy, the education system; they've all bred their fair share of monsters. There are plenty of ballbags using religion to accomplish or rubber-stamp their activities (one of whom you mentioned above), and plenty of ballbags who prefer other methods to wield power (ie politics) such as Stalin, Hitler and Kim Jong Il. They can also all be used to try and make people behave in ways they would not normally act.
Anyway, that's all peripheral crap... My point was that, in response to your post, rules that are not our own (most commonly, social norms) are imposed on us from a wide variety of different institutions in society. If you reflect on your behaviour, few conventions you adhere to can truly be called "yours". Most are social "rules", which you conform to in order to not get arrested or shunned by society. If you're a dude, you probably wouldn't walk around town wearing a dress an lipstick, or get on a bus naked. You most likely wouldn't take your neighbour's car because it's faster than yours, or set up a deckchair in his back garden for a spot of sunbathing. Some might, but they soon find out the consequences, legal or social of doing so.
Let's face it - right from birth we are indoctrinated, and almost "brainwashed" with ideas, ways of behaving and rules we must obey to have any hope of being accepted into society. If we weren't, our parents would be deemed to have done a very bad job. Religion is just one (and in many countries, an increasingly insignificant) part of this process.
And yes, you stole my thunder with Ms Merkel's boobs :D
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and have to play some crappy Japanese blue crystal dragon jesus (like regular Jesus but where every single detail is somehow messed up) game in the fighter/shump(somehow they combined them) genre?
final fantasy did enough to ragnarok ect already.
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I enjoy religious themes in games.
Exploring religion is fine, but I don't want a game to preach at me.
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Honestly, a significant amount of modern-day Christian ideas of the Devil are based on portions of Milton's Paradise Lost. Many modern-day Christians believe cherubim to be cute little babies with wings rather than the terrifying chimaera they actually are described as. The fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil is almost always assumed to be an apple.
So a premise like that set forth in Darksiders (which really incorporates very little of Biblical canon) is actually twice removed from the presumed source material.
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Did I offend you? Did i ask a question or even hint to the fact that I give a shit about your fucking opinion.. PPl like you are the reason these 2 topics shouldn't be discussed. I wasn't even going to bother to respond but I skim'd the threads and notice you responded and fed YOUR opinion a bit to often. So to clarify. A game is a game. I will still not say what I believe in, my opinion towards my belief's or anything else.. Except the fact you can fuck off.
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If your posting your opinion to the public you should be prepared for it to be challenged and discussed. If you're not prepared to take criticism, don't post at all.
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Are you just going to attack anyone who challenges you? Sounds like someone forgot to take his happy pills.
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No you didn't there's only a few things that can offend me. And if I was answering a lot an feeding my opinion is because I was looking for a discussion (not an argument but seems that there's people around who can't really tell from one to another)
Have a good day sir.
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Games including religions and mythologies are fine (for me), so long as they are not preachy and attempt to portray their beliefs as fact. I am an agnostic atheist, I don't consider myself anti-religious, but i am anti-dogma, anti-ignorance, anti-discrimination etc.
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I would rather Religion (as a subject) just not exists at all. But this is just my personal feeling toward the matter.
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Religions would (I'd say universally and inherently) promote belief without understanding. That alone is reason enough to wish it were no longer existent.
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Actually I'd say that dogmas of faith (The ones that have to be accepted without discussion) are a lesser part of, at least, the Christian Religion, which is the one I'm more familiar with. Everything else but that is open to discussion.
But yeah. Blind belief is promoted several times as for example on John 20:29
Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.
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You said that you want all religion to not exist because of people you hear protesting.
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Call of Jesus:Crucifiction Ops.Make it happen activision.
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Yeah i would love religion would be explored in games not just the mainstream religions of today but also the made up religions, for example there is some quests on borderlands 1 and 2 that are related with religion and i did enjoyed, soon the Easter vacations will start and i have no games related with easter event, i hope find some games where i can crucified people and kill annoying Easter bunnys.
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I dont have a problem with religion in a video game as long as it's not trying to promote it.
religion isnt in video games very often because it doesnt like to be discussed or humiliated. It just isnt that strong.
The only people that would include religion are those wanting to bash it or those who have created a fake religion in order to fill a storyline gap.
No major company would release a major pro-religion game, because video games and religion are not the same target market. the target market for video games are generally rebellious to preachings of any kind.
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I don't think religion should have a special status that protects it from being addressed critically (maybe "humiliated", though I think that is a bit harsh and presumptuous), but I don't think that necessarily precludes some kind of pro-religion (whether a specific religion or religious belief in general) conclusion from a story-line.
I also disagree with your assertion that the target markets of religion and video games are different. Religion pretty much targets everyone. Are gamers not everyone? And I think there are as many religious gamers as there are non-religious. There is nothing inherently anti-religious, or even particularly rebellious about playing a video game.
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Game companies tend not to make games with religious messages, or that address issues of transcendence and reality.
Would you like to have more games that gave you the opportunity to explore your religion, other religions, or to perhaps even have transcendent spiritual experiences?
Discuss.
Edit
Unwritten looks like a good example of the exploration of myth (not here used in a derogatory way), culture, and story-telling.
That might be a good example of how religion can be addressed in games, and make for a thought-provoking experience, though of course it is yet to be released.
Also I now would like to create a game of some sort that makes use of religious themes and questions. This thread has really inspired me.
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