took me a sec to realize the slight irony of the comments lol :3
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i do..."Altman Be Praised!"
oh and if u dont want religion.. may i suggest a nice city called Rapture?
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play civilization V if u want this it has alot of the religions in it
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Wait what? Kratos was under the command of Zeus, it was one of his enforcers.
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Until this gets ugly I am hoping it remains open. It is a bad trend for things to be punished preemptively.
That said, life is rather ugly, and sometimes having authentic interactions with other humans is rough, but at least in such a situation one encounters another person.
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Not really. I mean... why? I'm a religious person but I think putting religion into games is pointless. Games are entertainment. There's nothing "entertaining" about religion. Religion is serious business, games are not.
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Not all games are supposed to be "entertaining". Take Spec-Ops: The Line for example.
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Yeah, gameplay was so boring I deleted it after like 15 min.
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I think he meant it as that the story is more like intended to make you think about your actions and kind of make you feel miserable than simply entertain you and present yourself as the true hero.
The gameplay was quite good, apart from some clumsiness with the cover system which didn't work that well..
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I know but never really got to that because for me (on M&K), the gameplay was below average cover system TPS. Thats just my opinion thou.
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Yeah I have to agree that the cover system is quite sometimes and can lead to some frustration. But the story is great and somewhat refreshing. You should check it out. Moreover on a easy difficulty it should take more like 5-6h to complete. It took like 9 to me on hardest and I suck at it.
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Maybe I will give it a shot later, but if so it's gonna be on hard at least. Difficulty is rarely problem with me. Maybe like Dark Souls, but even there I quit because of the stupid check point system.
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It's worth it. I'm going to play through it a second time on "Fubar" difficulty just to gain a better understanding of the story and make different choices etc. The story is very deep and open to interpretation, which is why I'm getting drawn back ^^ Gameplay is decent too!
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The cover system is pretty irresponsive sometimes. And I ended too in some kind of dead end that prevented me for aiming anyone as my sight was weirdly stuck behind cover.
And controls when out of cover are sometimes a bit, well weird. Having said that the gunplay is really satisfying and I totally agree that the story is a very depth one, and very interesting too. Best part of the game by far.
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They did screw up the cover system. Campaign could have been longer too. I managed to whiz through it under 10 hours on the second hardest difficulty. There were parts I had to do multiple times as well, so on easier difficulty I reckon you could beat the game in 8 hours or less. Not good, but at least it's a quality experience :)
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I disagree entirely. There are hundreds of books about war, for example, which focus heavily on religion, much to the benefit of the book. (The Lost Fleet series by Jack Campbell is a prime example.) Religion IS an important aspect to many soldiers, so by sidestepping the issue, many games lose a bit of reality. Mass Effect is one game that would benefit greatly by focusing more on religion and its place on the battlefield.
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Well, that makes sense. As long as there's no mockery of religion.
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That's gonna be a nice icebreaker when you stand face to face with God after you die.
I also think you already know the answer to your question.
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That's gonna be a nice icebreaker when you stand face to face with God after you die.
Who's being disrespectful now?
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He implied that religious people are idiots by saying "The notion that religion has something sane about it insults my intelligence." I just said it'd be a nice thing to say when he meets God after he dies.
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It was still a threat some way or another. But well..
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Matthew 5: 38-39
38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also.
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John 8:7
"When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her."
I take it you're a saint then if you want to sermon me.
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No I actually wanted to say that there's no point in attacking back. But wel..
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I didn't "attack" him back. It was just a remark. It's so easy to offend you if you think it was an "attack".
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I'm not offended, never said I was, never did anything to indicate such.
That's an attack in my eyes. But well in this treacherous world nothing is either truth or lie; everything depends on the color of the crystal that one looks through.
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I don't understand it as threat. In his reality I would probably burn in hellfire for all eternity in my afterlife or something like that, I think a fair warning so that I have a chance to change my ways to avoid my deportation to hell is actually a nice thing to do. Thanks. But no need to worry about me. :D
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My intelligence gets insulted too by people who disrespect other people's belief and mocks them.
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I admit, mockery is a crass form of humour. What I don't understand is feeling of being attacked as a person when fun is being made of my opinions, traditions, political views or whatever... you name it. I feel enriched by being confronted with different opinions and discussions about them. It is important to constantly rethink everything and adjust opinions according the the level of information we have. Arguments can be dressed up as humour, satire, even mockery. Why not?
And it's important to be honest. If someone tells me about his/her relation to some imaginary dude I have to say "hey, the guy you think you're talking with, he's not real". And if someone tries to convince me we're living in a fantasy world where an imaginary bad guy from some imaginary place called hell and an imaginary good guy from a place called heaven fight to seize power over humankind and if I let my daughter read Harry Potter I'm taking sides with the bad guy it's very hard not to get the impression that the person I'm talking to thinks I'm retarded.
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I love discussing and having people disagree with me, life would be quite dull otherwise. But I do think too that a halo of condescendence and giving the impression than you are better than your opponent is not good and does not add anything to any discussion, ever. Moreover one thing is humour and satire, which are completely fine, and other is mockery, which isn't.
What is more I think that there's a difference between honesty and being a douchebag. I mean if you met a chubby lady, would you tell her something on the lines of, Hey ma'am you're fat,geez! That's pretty much the same here, only that well, Religion is not something that can be objectively discussed. So there's no right and wrong there.
And I personally feel you concept or Religion pretty misconcepted. Not every single one believes in God (Which is definitely not some imaginare dude in the eyes of many Religions, but more like the first cause, the unmmoving mover, the Origin) Nor hell is present in everysingle of them either.
And personally if someone told you that if I let my daughter read Harry Potter I'm taking sides with the bad guy I would also think that person its retarded. But even if the fundamentalist, short minded people are the ones who make more noise. Not everyone is like them.
Cheers.
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Sure, there are nontheistic religions like buddhism. Don't know anything about them, so my view on religions is shaped by the dominant religions at my place of residence, Christianity and Islam.
With these religions religiosity comes with a set of rules, the religious person either lives quietly by these rules or or tries to influence others, shape the society we live in according to his/her ruleset. Either way, you're right: Religion is not something that can be objectively discussed because it has no roots in reality. It always comes down to "god came up with these rules therefore we/I have to live by them" while the rules were actually thought of by humans, in many cases religious leaders who claim to speak for god or have the ablity to interpret the will of god on the basis of an old book. So what or who is god for these people? Does a "first cause" have consciousness, a will and strives for control over humans? I can't really be sure as I'm totally baffled by things religious persons utter but I always come to the conclusion that it has to be a supernatural being they believe in, with a will he/she/it wants to impose over the religious person. When I talk to 2 different christians or muslims they most likely imagine different supernatural beings because their personality seems to be different. There's a wide range between hippie god "wants us to be spread love, be tolerant and have a good time, live and let live" and vengeful, hateful god "wants to smite all who disobay him, let homosexuals suffer, let hellfire rain on everything aaarrrggh". Seems to be a whole pantheon of gods in god-country.
Everybody may think about that what he/she wants but I don't see how someone is being disrespectful because he/she sees a connection between religious faith and mental disorder.
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This is just my opinion, I don't want to disrespect anyone with what I'm about to say.
Look at the state of the middle east and the unimaginable horrors that happen in Africa every single day.
The idea of a merciful god is ridiculous.
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There's no reason that religion deserves special treatment. Everything is subject to criticism and mockery.
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Actually no religion should be mocked. Every religious should be treated equally and seriously. But criticism - yes. Mockery - no. Criticizing has some sense and wants to prove a point. Mockery is just disrespectful.
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"Every religion should be treated equally and seriously."
Tell that to Islam and they'll probably put a contract out to take your life (not joking at all).
Personally, I try to treat every belief and religion with equality. But when you're faced with a religion that tries to force it's ideals on you, all that "positive thinking" goes right out the window. Religion won't be a problem for people like yourself until it's outside your door, demanding that you accept it. It's an inevitability, and I'm scared shitless. It won't matter who mocks who when that time comes.
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Religion does not opress, slaughter nor deceive anyone. People do.
And well everyone deserves respect and tolerance. EVERYONE. E V E R Y O N E
Just remember that an eye for an eye and we will all end up blind.
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People who do evil deeds and use religion to cover it up are one of the most evil people that ever lived. They use religion which is about love and forgiveness and murder people in the name of it. They murder in the name of Jesus while Jesus never wanted anyone to kill anyone. Those people were evil. They gave bad name to religion.
If you want to know what Christianity is about, M60dk, look at Jesus' life. That's what this religion is about. Just because someone claims it's his religion doesn't mean that's true. Look at Obama. He's supposedly christian but he supports abortion and homosexuals. One of the biggest sins according to Bible a person can commit. Christianity is not a "title", it's a way of life. I will always stand by that sentence.
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I find it utterly laughable that you're complaining elsewhere in this thread about a lack of tolerance for your religion when you here imply that homosexuals do not deserve "support".
As for Obama, let's not play the "no true scotsman" game. Other believers might say that anyone wishing to deny marriage equality to homosexuals (or other issues of social justice) is not a very good Christian, because they are not loving their neighbor.
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I can do nothing but agree with you here sir. I suscribe your words one by one.
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It's such a broad subject and you reduced it down to two sentences. Homosexuals are for christians like any other people. But they don't deserve rights that are reserved only for heterosexual couples and families. They even can not and should not get the same rights that a normal, heterosexual family has. For many reasons.
As for the second sentence - you don't know much about christianity, do you? What is better? Going to hell with your whole body intact? Or chopping off your arm which causes you to sin and avoid hell with only one arm left? It's from the Gospel. It's symbolical. How could you even write something like "is not a very good Christian, because they are not loving their neighbor" is beyond me. Completely. So if I point out that someone sins it means I don't love this person? You know what sin is, right? If I do that it means I love him so much I don't want him to burn in hell. Also, remember what happened to Sodoma and Gomora? It was destroyed because people were conducting homosexual acts there. It was destroyed because of that. By God. So now tell me, do you still think it's not christian to be "against homosexual marriages" while God himself said it's one of the gravest sins a person can commit and even destroyed a whole city because they were commiting this sin?
Some food for thought.
If we're to discuss this further you need to have some basic knowledge of christianity which you clearly lack. What I explained to you in the second paragraphs is basic knowledge.
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I'll thank you to read my points more carefully, and perhaps you might also refrain from denigrating my knowledge of Christianity. I assure you, I've read the book cover to cover and spent many years studying it. Just because I provide an alternative interpretation to your own doesn't mean I don't know the book.
But then again, that kind of misunderstanding is inevitable in a book that contains so many contradictions.
Did I boil it down to two sentences? Yes, because I intended to only address one issue at a time, a cleaner approach. Since you've taken a more scattershot trajectory, let's do it your way and take all these points together.
What I did was accuse you of using the "no true Scotsman" fallacy. In this case, you classified someone as an "alleged Christian" simply because they espouse different ideas than you (never mind your assumption that the U.S. President should even bring his religion into his political decisions in the first place.) The "no true Scotsman" argument is fallacious not only because it can easily lead to moving the goalposts but also because it assumes arbitrary values for Scotsman-ness without justifying them.
The point is that there are many liberal Christians--be they Episcopals, Unitarians, Catholics who reject the Vatican's broader message in favor of social justice (most famously of late, the Leadership Conference of Women Religious,) or some other left-leaning sect--who would look at someone such as yourself and say that your message of intolerance makes you not a true Christian. They would, of course, be just as fallacious as you have been in making a similar comment.
(Sidenote: what happened in Sodom and Gomorrah was really only a drop in the bucket of the millions YHWH kills throughout the book, and furthermore it was not due solely to their homosexual acts but also due to their lack of righteousness. Also of note, homosexuality is not ranked as one of the worst sins a person can commit - in fact, most of the sins are not ranked at all, the worst one being to deny the holy spirit and the least of them largely ignored by modern-day practitioners who wear mixed fabrics and eat shellfish, for example. Also, Jesus never said anything about homosexuals.)
Finally: please back up your assertion that marriage is "reserved only for heterosexual couples and families." Marriage began as an exchange of property and was co-opted by religion well after its inception.
They [homosexual couples] even can not and should not get the same rights that a normal, heterosexual family has. For many reasons.
By all means, let's have them. I'd prefer if you start out by justifying why the government should conform to religious principles for no other reason than that said religion dictates as such, and then proceed to your other reasons why your belief system should be imposed on others.
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You say you studied Bible from cover to cover, know it and so on but if you really understood it you would never say it contains a lot of contradictions. The fact that you think it does itself sums up your knowledge about the Bible. You may know it. You may even memorize it. Doesn't change the fact that maybe you don't understand it. Just because you say you do doesn't automatically mean that you really do understand it.
As for Sodom and Gomorrah - almost every source you will look up and every interpretation will tell you that their sin was indeed the sin of homosexuality. It wasn't called by name as we call it now but it still doesn't change anything. They called things differently those days. Look it up on Google "what was the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah"? Also, look at catholic church's teachings. All the same - it was a sin of homosexuality.
I said before "one of the most grave sins a person can commit". One of. Not the only one. Denying the Holy Spirit is the worst sin because if a person persists in it he or she can't be forgiven because of the very own nature of the sin. Opposing Holy Spirit is pretty much saying "I won't repent, I didn't sin" or "I won't repent, I want to sin as much as I like". There's no will to repent and there's no asking for forgiveness. And since we, as humans, are free and can't be forced to salvation then it's us who allow Jesus to save us. If we don't allow Him that the He won't save us. He respects our freedom of choice.
Look up what sins are considered the gravest according to Catholic Church. Homosexuality is one of them.
Now, why homosexuals shouldn't be granted the same rights as normal married couples? For one, they can't have kids. They don't contribute to the society in the way that normal married couples do. What is the role of a family? You don't get married to just do nothing. You get married because you love the other person very much and from that love another life is born. It's not without a reason. Secondly, kids raised by such couples (if they were allowed adoption) distort and destroy child's view on family and how a normal family is supposed to look like. And finally - it's not natural. Why can't homosexuals have kids? Because God (or nature, call it as you want) didn't see it as natural nor normal. Some things just can't be and people can't accept that. That's the problem of today's society. They want to have everything they want. That's it. We're so vain and full of ourselves that we don't care about other people or God and ultimately we always want to get what we want. And then we justify it by different means and words. Just because many people do something it doesn't make it right nor normal.
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dont mix theoligy with science. it doesn`t work.
also, its ludicrus to deny all the contradictions between the old and new testiments ( and other versions)
also cathloics are not allowed any modern effective birth control so you can keep the flock growing at any cost.
as for homosexuals, family, and breeding... its been proven time after time, children of same sex couples typically are better in school and have a happier home life. also i guess we ( in the us at least) should immediatly revoke the rights of hetro couples who are infertal or reject the idea of having children since marrage in the eyes of so of the religous right is for breeding and training purposes only. maybe we need to change the laws so marital rights are only given after trational conception followed by live birth and are only continued so long as the ofspring are viable to continue breeding.
then again the bible says i can bang other chicks and make my wife raise them as her own... yeah god! /sarcasm
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Studies proven "children of same sex couples typically are better in school and have a happier home life" - are you serious? You can't be serious. It's totally the other way around. You hear that all the time. Well, unless the "professors" or whoever does those studies is biased or bought then I guess he'll support homosexuals' views.
As for contradictions. There are none. On the first glance - they may be some. A lot even. But if you fully undersand the Bible you know then those contradictions were not contradictions at all. But people take everything out of context.
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"if you fully understand the bilbe" is just another way of saying you use 'faith'. i understand the bible as it is written and choose not tto inject my own personal subtext to the parts i find less favorible. i have often been able to reject simple quotes of bible passages simply by quoting other passages ( read: contradiction). i do not wish to challenge anyones faith for it is useless. i do say if it comforts you and does you or those around you no harm, feel free. when the religous feel the need to impose their will on others however it becomes toxic.
homosexuals are just one of the flavors of the month for those of religion to despise and control. for thousands of years christanity taught women were only baby making devices and it was ok to have slaves. i dont even recall jesus having a problem with one person owning another yet here we are 2000 years more mature and we see the fundimental flaws.
as for my comments about the children of homosexual parents, i may have overstated their success, however even studies done that say these children fair poorly also state its more likely because of broken homes and less to do with parental sexual orientation. gay or streight when parents split it effects the children negativly. when the relationship works the kids fair the same. i can cite sources if you like to the actual research as opposed to just hearsay. its currently difficult as im typing this out on my xbox via the ie app but if you need proof i can show you the way
of course i can then ask you to cite yours
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I agree about imposing. That's why I never start religion debates by myself. But when there's a discussion I'll always stand my ground and say that what I think is right. Take it your leave it, that's people choice.
As for slaves, those were different times. We should understand this in the cultural aspect/context. Slavery for us is something abnormal and terrible but back in the day it was something completely normal.
As for the kids. Broken homes, you say. Then hetero families should care about their kids more. We can't just be like "5% of hetero couples don't take good care of their kids so let's grant homosexual couples the right to adopt kids". It doesn't work that way. Those are two different problems. Besides, I've read articles which states that kids in homosexual families were abused as well. You really think this wouldn't happen? Yeah, right... I also read articles about how homosexuals are more violent in nature and impulsive. I wouldn't be surprised, after all they put their basis instincts above all else.
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No, no it wasn't Sodoma and Gomorra's sin wasn't homosexuality even if it's commonly believed so. Their sin was fornication. And homosexuality is not a deadly sin, lust is, there's a difference between them. One could argue that homosexuals cannot have sex without incurring into lust. But well, I personally don't consider it so, what is more, judging someone in basis of their personall condition is,well, execrable.
Here I give an example of what I mean.
Quotin Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
And everyone can be forgiven, if you don't belive so I suggest you to read Luke 15:11-32 (The Prodigal Son parable) or Matthew 18:12-14 or Luke 15:3-7
And homosexual couples do contribute to society. They can adopt children, they can raise them. They can do a lot of things. By that same logic is a unfertile woman not allowed to marry? Or an unfertile man?
Love between people of the same genre has been around forever. Ancient Greeks used to have relatioships betweem them males for example.
Lastly you are the one that is not caring about other people. The one trying to convert the world by your rulebook, to impose your morals and beliefs.
I consider myself as a Christian and a religious person, but sir. I'm ashamed people like you still exist.
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I would have sworn there was a reply here to my post. Anyways. In answer to that phantom reply
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What are you talking about? Homosexuality wasn't Sodom's sin "as it's commonly believed so" because you say that? You mixed up your opinion with facts and general belief. Almost everywhere it says this was indeed the sin of this city. So it was. End of story.
Homosexuality is even worse that any deadly sin (or at least just as equal in it's evilness). It's a sin "that cries to heaven". Those sins are: "willfull murder", "Oppression of the poor", "Defrauding laborers of their wages" and "sodomy". Google it if you don't believe me. And why do you think homosexual acts are called Sodomy? After Sodom and Gomorrah. This is all.
Everyone can be forgiven as long as they want forgiveness. Why do you think people end up in hell? Because they don't accept Jesus and his forgiveness of sins. People end up in hell because they don't want to do what is necessary to receive absolution.
See, adoption is not a natural way of bringing life into this world. They can't create new life while heterosexual couples can. That's the difference. Unfertile men and women are just an exception and there's not many of them. We can't base our opinions based on exceptions. Only a man and a woman can have a child after having a sexual intercourse. Woman and woman nor man and man can't have that. Because it's not the way nature (or God) made it happen. Infertile people always strive to have kids. They try. And it's not their fault they can't have them. But their relationship, their marriage is one hundred percent natural.
Love between those of the same sex has been around forever is not really an argument. Murder has been around forever. And? What does that prove? Not everything that's been around forever is good.
I care about every human being that exists. But if they're on the road to perdition then I'll do everything I can to tell them they're going the wrong way.
You're ashamed people like me still exist? I'm ashamed that people like you call themselves "christian" but they protect one of the biggests sins according to the Bible and Catholic church and call them "goodness". You seem like a wolf in sheep's clothing. And Bible has to say a lot of those kind of people. I don't know if you're scared to fight for what's right or you just put your sexual pleasures and sexual pleasures of other people before God and his rules but whatever the case - you should really think your religious life through.
And one more thing: You're saying I don't care about people... I have friends who are blasphemers and fornicators. I never turned my back on them because of that. Not even once. I never called any sinner less a human being just because he or she sins differently than me. Calling a sin by its name has nothing to do with "not caring about people". Actually it's the opposite. I care about people's souls and salvation. But at the same time I don't impose anything. Unless a discussion about religion is started by someone else I don't speak a word about it. If there's other people will to talk about this I will always say exactly that the Bible and Catholic church says about all the things they do and I do. So what you just wrote is utter bullshit. I just don't know why it's so easy for you to accuse me of anything while in reality none of this is true. You're actually the one who doesn't care about others, by saying "I'm ashamed people like you still exist" you wish I was dead. I have nothing more to add. I just feel sorry for you.
And to what you just posted. You realize this passage is about you, right? You say you're a christian but you support the sin of homosexuality. Also you say you're ashamed other people still exist meaning you'd want them dead. Yeah, that's very christian of you. And yet you have the guts to call me a hypocrite.
Well, I have nothing more to add.
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You should have a look at what a Logical Fallacy is.
And don't put in my mouth words I haven't said.
Lastly none so deaf as those who will not hear. So unless you are actually open for sensible discussion. I've finished here too arguing with you.
And Sodomy used to refer to any sexual practice which didn't follow the rule book. Not homosexuality.
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No, you haven't finished arguing with me. I've finished arguing with you. Just because you put fingers in your ears and scream "I don't hear that! That's bullshit!" doesn't mean it will go away. Likewise, just because you don't want to accept something it doesn't make it any less true. And finally, just because you think you're right doesn't make it so.
All I've said can be backed up by the Bible, Catholic Church and the Cathehism of the Catholic Church. All you've said can't be backed by none of those sources simply because you said everything that's opposed to what I said. Therefore - you're in denial.
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I've been baptized, catechized, confirmed in my faith and was raised in a school driven by nuns. And I can tell I've heard none of the nosense you claim there.
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Oh and the internet is no valid source for almost anything. So don't tell me to google things.
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Oh, so in the internet everything about religion is 100% false?
That's pretty sly on your part actually. That way I can't prove you anything but miraculously everything you say and claim is automatically true?
That's golden. It really is.
You're in denial, my friend.
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Not most, but almost everything. Any sensible investigator, scientis, whatever knows that a google search is not the best way to prove anything.
And stop playing the Martyr.
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You made me the "martyr".
That's golden too.
Okay then, look it up in the Cathehism of the Catholic Church. Or is that still not good enough for you?
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Now, why homosexuals shouldn't be granted the same rights as normal married couples? For one, they can't have kids.
Neither can infertile heterosexual couples. Should a couple be barred from marriage if one or both are infertile due to age or medical condition?
Secondly, kids raised by such couples (if they were allowed adoption) distort and destroy child's view on family and how a normal family is supposed to look like.
Prove it.
And finally - it's not natural.
An appeal to the natural, and a false one at that! Asserting something is good simply because it is natural is fallacious, just as asserting something is good just because it is synthesized. Something is good on its own merit, not its naturalness. Now, never mind all the unnatural amenities we afford ourselves everyday (like phones or internet or antibiotics,) because homosexuality is natural. It has been observed in almost 1500 species and well-documented for 500 of those species.
I will continue to await your justification for why others should have to conform to the tenets of your beliefs.
And if you believe the Bible has no contradictions, you are clearly ignorant of its content. Biblical scholars--religious and not--all agree that it has at least some discrepancies. All but the most fundamentalist of apologists will admit the same. The Bible contradicts itself. I provided you with a link showing several of the most prominent (and simple!) examples. If you continue to deny such basic and supported appeals to logic and reason, I will have to dismiss you and your claims as unreasonable and thoughtless (not stupid, but thoughtless - that is, that you have not bothered to think about them even a little.)
I sincerely hope we can continue our discussion civilly and rationally.
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I'll respond to that post soon. Don't think I'm left without saying a word :)
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Why does religion deserve respect? Respect is earned.
Besides, if--as you say--it's not the religion but the people that are responsible for deeds... then shouldn't it be the people who earn the respect and not the religion?
I respect you, the Christian. You have your beliefs and I'm not going to insinuate that you are an x kind of person for holding them. However, I do not have very much respect for the Bible, or Jesus, or the figure of Yahweh. They don't deserve it.
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It's not Religion as an intangible being which deserves respect. But people who worship that Religion. (I know that's pretty much your point) I personally consider any humour based on any topic and any opinion on those viable and good as long as no person is attacked directly by them.
I mean there's a line between saying I don't believe in God nor Organised Religions and All who worships any God is mentally ill and so on. As I think that black humour is fun sometimes but I would not make a joke about cancer to someone who's lost a near person to it.
I know I'm mainly repeating your point here but I dunno I felt like it.
And I do think you should respect the Bible at least because all historically relevant books and scriptures deserve so. But that's my opinon.
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Good point. I respect the Bible as a literary document. Its creation story isn't as good as others but still has some nice stuff to it. There are some cool myths in there like Samson and Job and David. It does a lot of great work with metaphor and allegory in the New Testament. Its historicity is at times dubious, but nonetheless it does provide a historical perspective of what humans did and aspired to at various times throughout the book's journey to its modern iteration.
I absolutely don't respect the Bible as a source of moral lessons.
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No, it would not. It would suffer greatly. A lot of players would spend a lot of time baffled by the presence of religion in advanced alien cultures. Even we foolish humans are likely to overcome religion after meeting other sentient species.
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Why would that happen? I mean both statements you provided. Would you mind elaborating?
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I disagree. It really doesn't break your suspension of disbelief at all that the second we encounter an alien, all religions are instantly proven wrong, and no one has a problem with it? There were several mentions of religion, but none of them were very fleshed out. The geth came up with religion, and then there was that whole jelly fish type race whose whole gimmick was religion. You really don't think it's weird that not a single human struggles with religion in the wake of all the information that comes to light?
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actually I feel it breaks suspension of disbelief far more that nobody in any species or culture in space has any religion at all....its silly. like assuming government will dry up as soon as everybody has the possibility of owning a ship capable of taking care of itself. Or how in tng space meant instant bloodless transition to magic socialist paradise.
"oh, aliens. time to scrap religion" didn't work any other time when we met people where they weren't supposed to be, or when the world was bigger than this little island, not only that but these pale guys on giant ships claim to be from land across the horizon...but thats where quetzalcoatl lives...
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Every single religion as every single culture is serious bussiness man.
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A lot of games do have religion in them though. Whether it be made from scratch, based on real ones, or the real ones themselves. A game that has religion in it isn't necessarily pushing that religion or trying to convert you; nor is it usually the main point. If it was any of those then yes, I'd agree it's not really welcome. But religion in games is far from pointless. Religion is a huge motivational source for characters/entities/nations/races, etc.
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no, because then people will complain because they have nothing better to do.
the only religion i like to see more off is the daedric princes and the divines
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Seems a bit pointless unless the story really depends on it and its interesting. Putting it in there for the hell of it is just stupid. Obviously you don't want things like the pope in Borderlands but in games like Metro it makes sense. If they left out things like religion in games that are supposed to be realistic and show what society is like religion will play a role.
tl;dr: You can make a good game about religion, but it is difficult. Games shouldn't be made around religion, but sometimes it should be incorperated.
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Because "modern" religions are kind of monotonous and wouldn't really make great games.
Also because a lot of people get really offended and pissed if you say anything about their religion.
So you take a dead religion, which has a lot of badass mythology and you can make an interesting game and nobody will get pissed.
I'm still waiting for a good Mayan/Aztec game. Or a game based on old slavic religion would be interesting.
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india doesn't count, its their own fault for having such awesome/cool gods. their gods are basically the justice league and the marvel multiverse(jk). thats what you get when you just add random best bits from everybody else's religion. its like how judiaochristian devils from shatan prankster testing djinn or whatever got picked up wandering in the desert. like blue krishna jesus, or laser eyes on shiva, or that random monkey guy who's really dumb but can easily pick up a mountain to fetch a flower, they're fun.
and india knows this, so they're cool with having a mortalkombat character named ganish turning into an elephant and sitting on some guy's head.....but make one mohamid reference even a nice one and its all ADMARALACKBAR!.... POP but thats only the crazy ones that get all the media. the rest are pretty normal so you could probably get away with more than people think.
or like how china never gets pissed about dragons or phoenix and korea doesn't get a stick up their ass everytime you slay a scaly unicorn. they know the sort of appeal their religions have for that sort of thing and accepted it.
even christians, they'd be mad if you made a zombie survival horror with jesus as patient zero but its a passive kind of angry where nobody really even says anything(mostly cause they're too white to feel they could get away with making a fuss lol, and white enough to feel bad about trying even if they thought they could pull it off(at least the american ones))
and nobody at all gets pissed for "celebrating pagan religions....where did you get that?(i kinda want to play whatever game plz, things that piss off crazy people are fun, like peta or gun control nuts tehy usually make entertaining flash games, like cooking mama)
i think mostly people only get upset if they feel you're deliberately pissing on their beliefs, beyond that its pretty ok. Jesus is just boring for game stuff. so they could make more religious games, its just hard to make one interesting, and a bit of an effort to both get enough in that it doesn't feel like a tiny just a cosmetic thing and prevent it coming across preachy so nobody bothers. elves and zombies are just more fun, if the market want god the'd go to church more often is probably the thinking
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exactly. nobody cares about hindu in videogames including indians because its just how things are. its ok because india is who makes them.(except that'd work if it was japan's stuff...so its ok to make fun of oni I guess?)
white people invented all the racist words so its their own fault if people racism them back, same thing.
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Apparently my one little sentence touched a nerve (not really), albeit one that still knows how to inject humor into a debate (Admiral Ackbar - genius (almost - don't want to give too much credit)).
China = state religion, no need to get pissed about anything - all non-sanctioned religions are pretty much illegal
Korea = way too many religions regardless of what the majority practice - they export it to Japan and let them get upset instead (only partially joking here)
The only white people that should feel guilty about anything are the ones that still believe slavery was a good and noble idea or that it should be brought back - I would NOT feel sad if such folks were shot dead, then burned, then acid poured on the remains, (EDIT: then the ashes pissed on), then the remains dumped in the Marianas Trench...
Obviously you have no idea how many people get pissed about Halloween, which has pagan roots - I don't need to source it, I see it every year lol, even from people I consider friends, because I'm that kind of guy - I both love and hate humanity, wishing that we'd either grow up or be annihilated completely in order to remove our stink, our stain, from the universe at large.
I like your style sir, no devolving into name calling or irrational rants - too bad the majority of those on the internet can't do the same.
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people still do that? I thought only that elderly witchlady down the block did that. go away children or I'll read you a gospel about inviting the devil and idols, no sweets for you. Had assumed those things were mostly in cartoons(like the creationist museum) these days lol. figured those people died by now, ...who's children decided to emulate it? :(
if anything it should be the modern pagans that get pissed(or wiccans with witches in media)(but they don't), i thought that was initially started to mock their beliefs so conversion would stick better, like how christmas stole staernailia but more meanspirited
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That's a good point about the personal aspect. Most people talk about religions as these monolithic institutions, but, there is a lot more variety in any religion than most people realize, both because of the variety of sects that are out there and the great difference between dogma and practice.
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As Susan B. Anthony said, "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do to their fellows, because it always coincides with their own desires." Everybody has their own little interpretation of their religion. I posit (or rather, repeat Matt Dillahunty's assertion) that there are as many forms of Christianity as there are Christians - and the same goes for other religions.
Nobody goes 100% by their religious manual, and even if they follow it to the letter (re: fundamentalism) there are still differences of interpretation.
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Thats one thing that happened with Bioshock Infinite. There was going to be a lot of religious themes in it but the developers felt that they wouldn't be able to address it properly.
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A lot of the time video games as well as books and movies will use religion as a scapegoat to explain why a character is bad. That seems to be a lot of what Bioshock Infinite was doing, however it looks like religion will still play a role in the game. Here is an article concerning this.
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That's interesting. It will be interesting to see how the story plays out.
I'm not totally sure what angle the story of Bioshock Infinite will take, but if it is anything like Bioshock (and Ayn Rand's philosophy that inspired it), I am guessing that religion, while possibly being an "ill", would not be a cause for people being "bad" in the same way it might be used in a more cliche game or movie.
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They eliminated the religious part because one of their religious developers (or graphics artist or whatever) wanted to quit. So i guess this religious aspect of the game would not have been, what you want. I suppose you want Religion in games to be shown positively (Correct me if i'm wrong).
I am fine with games that include religious aspects, but i don't believe in god. So for me these are more like Fantasy games. ;)
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The reason they eliminated it wasn't because he wanted to quit. It was because the artist allowed them to see multible perspectives on the scene in question. Plus they didn't get rid of the religious aspect, they just changed it around.
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Exactly. The proper way to use it and avoid controversy isn't to say that religion x is good or bad, just that it's there and is important and shapes issues and viewpoints. Sleeping Dogs did very well in avoiding saying that religion was good or bad, but kept it in since it is very important and the clash between religious old ways and economical new ways is very relevant in modern day China.
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My country is Muslim so if a game makes something bad about Muslims it becames unavaliable for my region to buy it.
But since I'm a Deist, I don't actually give a s**t about religion.
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jesus isn't cool enough, whats he going to do die for your sins? god of war works because mars is a badass that'd be fun to control. Only time jesus did anything remotely action was as a child when he kicked a bunch of loansharks asses for opening inside a temple or something.
torah stuff could work. play like "simcity" and "Civ". lead the Hebrew from a band of nomads into a powerful empire, destroy the hethan philistines to take the promised land, minigame plaguing egypt. Nuke cities to salt for disappointing you. floods are exciting. tower defense minigame to rebel against rome at mosada ect.
actually I can see jesus doing a decent marioparty minigame thing.
or something like this http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2009/04/09/my-favorite-mid-90s-bad-ass-jesus-comic/
I imagine it playing like shank
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I believe that religion should be a personal matter... private. Between you and your believed creator. If it's important to the story, like say Dante's Inferno or God of War... then fine. But if it's not important to the story, if it's just a minor tidbit about the character, then no. Believe what you want, but no reason to put it out there for everyone to see. If you can't worship without an audience, you're doing it wrong.
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"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men.
Matthew 6:5
Things would be a lot more pleasant if more folks could worship without an audience.
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Deus Ex Human Revolution does a good job of brining up questions about life and what is after everything. It even incorporates the myth of Icarus and his flight.
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Even more, as you can become a "God" in that game.
Another very good game to mention would be Xenogears, wich approaches christian/jewish mythology similar to how the anime Neon Genesis Evangelion does.
I personaly like those references in games, as long as no particular religious group is offended by it.
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Added this to the original post but:
Unwritten looks like a good example of the exploration of myth (not here used in a derogatory way), culture, and story-telling.
That might be a good example of how religion can be addressed in games, and make for a thought-provoking experience, though of course it is yet to be released.
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It depends. In Call of Juarez(warning, don't read if you hadn't played in CoJ before and want to play!) it was really important part of the plot, especially connected with change of Ray, and with William's influence. If it is presented in mature way and without harming followers of (presented) religion, why not? Of course not every game is adequate-I don't think that anyone of us would like to see something about "living" religion in Serious Sam or Bulletstorm :)
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I think I heard them talk about God a few times in Bulletstorm. It's such a deep and well-written game. You didn't notice all those sensitively structured religious themes?
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If you're trying to make a work of art and religion is a theme you think would contribute greatly to the central message of your work, then by all means it's your right to use religion in your work in whatever way you want. And this goes for games which are meant to be art in addition to being entertainment. Otherwise, with the exception of appropriate uses of religion, such as in Assassin's Creed, using religion often comes out as ham-fisted or a pitiful attempt at edginess. And if it's a wholly religious game, such as The Bible Game or Bible Adventures, oh God, please don't (no pun intended).
TL;DR: Religion in a game intended to be art, do it if you think it works. Religion in a game more focused on fun, it's risky.
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Could you develop that point? In which sense there's already too much Religion?
What harm could be done that it was on a fictional produc, I mean isn't there too much war already in the world? Still it's portrayed recurrently on videogames.
I'd love to hear your opinion.
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Game companies tend not to make games with religious messages, or that address issues of transcendence and reality.
Would you like to have more games that gave you the opportunity to explore your religion, other religions, or to perhaps even have transcendent spiritual experiences?
Discuss.
Edit
Unwritten looks like a good example of the exploration of myth (not here used in a derogatory way), culture, and story-telling.
That might be a good example of how religion can be addressed in games, and make for a thought-provoking experience, though of course it is yet to be released.
Also I now would like to create a game of some sort that makes use of religious themes and questions. This thread has really inspired me.
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