Попытка осмыслить цензуры в стиме из-за требований платёжных операторов

Леди и джентельмены мы с вами могли заметить и пронаблюдали новости про удаление ряда нишевых игр из стима у которых были слишком провокационные название и они в целом были посвящены фетишам "Incest" и "Slave".
Примеры подтверждаюшие новости:
https://steamdb.info/app/3484360/ - Interactive Sex - Incest Daughters
https://steamdb.info/app/3395190/ - Sex Adventures - Incest Family - Episode 1
https://steamdb.info/app/3095940/ - Incest
https://steamdb.info/app/2118600/ - Prison
https://steamdb.info/app/3134610/ - Slave Of The Police Officer

Однако присмотревшись к тем событиям я заметил ещё что фетишей которые могут пострадать в разы больше. В их число точно входит "Non-consensual sex" и скорее всего "Guro".
Примеры подтверждающие теорию:
https://steamdb.info/app/3521860/ - Wolf on Rail
https://steamdb.info/app/1573060/ - NejicomiSimulator Vol.1 (Gapping, Amputee sex slave, Petrify, Time Stop)

Сегодня же пострадали не треш игры:
Задели издателя WASABI entertainment и в его случае не помогло то что 18+ контент он выкладывал отдельно в форме бесплатного DLC. Примеры:
https://steamdb.info/app/1056050/ - LONGING RING OF ESCA
https://steamdb.info/app/1997130/ - Paze Knight Ellen and the Dungeon town Sodom
https://steamdb.info/app/3130080/ - Prison Break Princess
https://steamdb.info/app/1964670/ - Succubus in Wonderland

Также сильно пострадал издатель оверпрайс новелл PRODUCTION PENCIL примеры:
https://steamdb.info/app/2101460/ - Cuckold Princess
https://steamdb.info/app/2522560/ - Sister X Slaves
https://steamdb.info/app/3078910/ - Sisters Z Hypnosis
https://steamdb.info/app/2744350/ - Tutor X Hypnosis 2

Пострадал издатель Dieselmine. Примеры:
https://steamdb.info/app/2862430/ - Brainwashing with Tentacles R
https://steamdb.info/app/3038870/ - Fallen Princess Knight
https://steamdb.info/app/2409130/ - Heavenly Badonkers Angel ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥

Видна тенденция в которой скорее всего пострадают все метроидвании / экшен РПГ. Примеры:
https://steamdb.info/app/1322310/ - Guilty Hell: White Goddess and the City of Zombies
https://steamdb.info/app/2082810/ - MAGICAL ANGEL FAIRY PRINCESS
https://steamdb.info/app/2151480/ - SusRitual

К чему я веду. Если вдруг у вас есть в вишлисте игры которые вы хотите купить и в них фигурируют те же или схожие фетиши и вы действительно хотите их иметь в своей библиотеке, то мне кажется что не стоит откладывать покупку этих игр.

Повлиять на ситуацию мы с вами не можем, поэтому и переживать лишний раз не нужно. Помните что для того чтобы пройти игру её не обязательно покупать в стиме... Её можно совершенно случайно найти в интернете!


An attempt to understand censorship in steam due to the requirements of payment operators

Ladies and gentlemen, you and I may have noticed and have seen the news about the removal of a number of niche games from Steam that had overly provocative titles and were generally dedicated to the fetishes of "Incest" and "Slave". Examples confirming the news:
https://steamdb.info/app/3484360/ - Interactive Sex - Incest Daughters
https://steamdb.info/app/3395190/ - Sex Adventures - Incest Family - Episode 1
https://steamdb.info/app/3095940/ - Incest
https://steamdb.info/app/2118600/ - Prison
https://steamdb.info/app/3134610/ - Slave Of The Police Officer

However, having looked closely at those events, I also noticed that there are many more fetishes that can suffer. These definitely include "Non-consensual sex" and most likely "Guro".
Examples confirming the theory:
https://steamdb.info/app/3521860/ - Wolf on Rail
https://steamdb.info/app/1573060/ - NejicomiSimulator Vol.1 (Gapping, Amputee sex slave, Petrify, Time Stop)

Today, it was not trash games that suffered:
The publisher WASABI entertainment was affected and in his case, it did not help that he posted 18+ content separately in the form of free DLC. Examples:
https://steamdb.info/app/1056050/ - LONGING RING OF ESCA
https://steamdb.info/app/1997130/ - Paze Knight Ellen and the Dungeon town Sodom
https://steamdb.info/app/3130080/ - Prison Break Princess
https://steamdb.info/app/1964670/ - Succubus in Wonderland

The publisher of overpriced novels PRODUCTION PENCIL also suffered greatly examples:
https://steamdb.info/app/2101460/ - Cuckold Princess
https://steamdb.info/app/2522560/ - Sister X Slaves
https://steamdb.info/app/3078910/ - Sisters Z Hypnosis
https://steamdb.info/app/2744350/ - Tutor X Hypnosis 2

Publisher Dieselmine suffered. Examples:
https://steamdb.info/app/2862430/ - Brainwashing with Tentacles R
https://steamdb.info/app/3038870/ - Fallen Princess Knight
https://steamdb.info/app/2409130/ - Heavenly Badonkers Angel ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥

A trend is visible in which most likely all metroidvanias / action RPGs will suffer. Examples:
https://steamdb.info/app/1322310/ - Guilty Hell: White Goddess and the City of Zombies
https://steamdb.info/app/2082810/ - MAGICAL ANGEL FAIRY PRINCESS
https://steamdb.info/app/2151480/ - SusRitual

What I'm getting at. If suddenly you have games on your wishlist that you want to buy and they feature the same or similar fetishes and you really want to have them in your library, then I think you shouldn't put off buying these games.

We can't influence the situation, so there's no need to worry too much. Remember that you don't have to buy the game on Steam to complete it... You can find it completely by accident on the Internet!

4 hours ago

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You're upset that you can't buy incest and grape fantasy games on Steam now? Wild.

4 hours ago
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I'm not making a moral judgment or being upset about the banning of these particular games.

But I specifically don't like that people's right to choose is influenced by completely unknown and unelected people.

If this or that content is dangerous or illegal, then the government of any region on Steam has the right to make a request and prohibit its implementation in its specific region for its specific citizens.

3 hours ago
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If a person wants to rape someone, would you be upset if nobody allowed them the right to choose that action?

3 hours ago
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Please remind me, are we discussing plots of fictional worlds or are you dragging real life into this for some reason?

Maybe then we should ban Lord of the Rings for promoting violence?

3 hours ago
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Frankly I'd be glad to see less of '18+ shemale furry jigsaw' type of jank on Steam, but you're missing the point there. What's wild is private companies thinking themselves sheriffs or something and dictating others what they can/cannot do.
I don't remember all the details, but Visa, Mastercard and Paypal pulled that shit before in Japan (mainly for but not limited to adult sites).

3 hours ago
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I'm definitely not missing the point. In reality, those games should never have been on Steam in the first place. It would have been easy enough for Valve to open a separate storefront with proper checks and balances if they wanted to sell that stuff. The fact that services Valve use don't want to be associated with that crap is actually kind of surprising and refreshing. I also would refuse to continue letting Valve use my payment services just like they did. And that would be my choice. Valve could of course choose to seek alternative means of collecting money if they really wanted to. But they don't.

Buy directly from the devs if you don't like it.

3 hours ago*
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Buy directly from the devs if you don't like it.

your definitely missing the point... the payment processors are disallowing the purchases anywhere. They are effectively dictating what content is allowed in the digital world and what sites can exist. Being removed from steam for content not being what a payment processors likely means its also removed or about to be removed from everywhere else for the same reason.

also remember most people don't really have a choice of payment processors(Visa/Mastercard/Discover/Amex are basically the only choices in the USA if you want a debit/credit card)... and 2 of those are partnered with alot of financial institutions... aka where people bank and is where they will get their card from.

these companies can f right off with forcing their morality on others.

2 hours ago
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Those payment providers are used to pay for more or less disgusting services daily. Their perceived anonymity and neutrality is the reason for their widespread use in monetary transactions.
Seeing them transform to a sort of private moral police suddenly is disturbing to say the least.

2 hours ago
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"Buy directly from the devs" with visa or mastercard?

"The fact that services Valve use don't want to be associated"

Ok, let me see... What visa and mastercard associate with

REAL Porn? - hell, yeah. It's huge.

Onlyfans? - Yes, of course.

Used panties or lingerie.? - Why not?

AI sex bots? - the future.

Custom sexting / roleplay? - totally private..

Sex dolls and custom toys, even 3D-modeled from real people? - I respect all kinks.

Kinks and Fetishes, like “Jarred farts” or “bathwater” – made famous by influencers (e.g., Belle Delphine), Scat/pee play, Virtual sex in VR, etc, etc? - All good business

NSFW games or manga? - NO. NEVER. THAT'S WHERE I DRAW THE LINE. I'M GOING TO BAN IT WORLDWIDE BECAUSE I'M A MONOPOLY. YOU DON'T LIKE IT? FUCK YOU. I'M A MONOPOLY.

If Visa and mastercard don't mind real porn, onlyfans, sex dolls or scat/pee olays, i think they could leave us alone. I don't want the goverment to decide which games i can play, i DEFINITELY don't want payment processors to decide which games I can play. Let's say tomorrow they decide they totally respect LGTBI rights, they just don't want to associate themselves with it. It would all disappear from internet in a second. They are too big

2 hours ago*
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Come to Germany, they protect you from all this evil. :D

(but to be honest I don't miss these Incest games at all, it's enough I see them all day on SG)

4 hours ago
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Germany has Two big reasons for that.
Reason I and II.

4 hours ago
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What you're hinting at, is another topic and one of the past, since swastikas etc. are allowed to be shown in games by now.
That all adult content games were removed from German store years ago, was similarly to this case due to Valve being threatened to be sued.

3 hours ago
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No thanks... Your Döner kebab is prepared worse than in Turkey. ))))

3 hours ago
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I often eat Döner (from the same restaurant) and can't complain! But you may be right - never have eaten Döner from Turkey so can't compare.

3 hours ago
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Germany doesn't ban such games. Steam voluntarily restricted them, because they fail to check if they sell mature content to adults only.
And frankly, in the age of smartphones with NFC and ID cards with eID, I don't see any reason why stores shouldn't be able to do what is requested.

3 hours ago
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Do you have a source, that this is "due to the requirements of payment operators"?

4 hours ago
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3 hours ago
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yea, this is mostly because of Visa and Mastercard...

while alot of these won't be missed, they are abusing their powers as a payment processor.

hoping some country like the EU starts regulating these companies... they shouldn't wield power against content they consider impure... that should be up to the consumer(as long as said content is legal).

3 hours ago
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as long as said content is legal

If someone started making laws about prohibiting interactive games that portray rape and incest, people would be all up in arms that it's censorship so I don't really see how the legal argument matters.

2 hours ago
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Well then let's ask these people to protect us from all violence.
I agree that Incest and non-consensual sex are bad.
But killing a person is even worse...

So let's ban Counter Strike, Call of Duty, Dota 2, strategies like Stellaris or Starcraft.

Or do you think that murder and genocide are not such terrible phenomena and should not be censored?

1 hour ago
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3 hours ago
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Honestly, I don't really care about these games, but I'm super annoyed that MasterCard, Visa and Paypall are trying to control what people buy. They are supposed to provide people services that they are paid for, not trying to act like everyone's "mommy". If I remember correctly something like this already happaned with mangas in Japan, hope this will create incentive for new payment processors and more competition

3 hours ago
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The people who run those companies also get to choose what they're willing to associate with. If you don't like their choice, you can choose to seek other means of doing what they're unwilling to do. That's how choice actually works.

3 hours ago
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Not if these companies monopolize their industry. Then their choice doesn't leave you any choice.
And the best example for this is how they made even Steam cave to their demands. Within few days.

2 hours ago*
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That's how choice actually works.

No, MasterCard, Visa etc. are business, they provide services (agreed to and signed) for a compenastion. Their services are literally transfering funds from party A to party B, that's it. Their clients did not give them consent to pre-select businesses that they can buy from for them. I'm somewhat confident that considering it was several biggest payment processors that started behaving like this, there is a case for FTC to check for antimonopoly, antitrust violations

2 hours ago
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"If I don't like how this monopoly works, I'll use another"... Except i can't, because that's not how monopolies work

2 hours ago
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Pretty sure we had this conversation before my friend but Steam doesn't have a monopoly
Those games literally still exist. Just like pedophile porn. Steam just doesn't sell it.

2 hours ago
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Steam doesn't have a monopoly. But other than visa and mastercard, which worldwide payment processors are there?

That's the monopoly I'm talking about

1 hour ago*
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They literally make money off this business and they decided not to anymore.
If they were making money off drugs sold in supermarket under a false label and they decided not to anymore, people would be celebrating.
Don't drug users have the right to choose and to have easy access to their drug of choice?

2 hours ago
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its absolutely wild people are getting upset about this, im sick and tired of seeing this disgusting trash when i look for games on steam, this is a WIN for Steam

3 hours ago
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You know that there is a filter for adult content in shop options?

3 hours ago
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There are literally adult filters on steam. There are genres I absolutely dislike. But that's notna reason to ban them from Steam.

2 hours ago*
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No. There are "adult content" filters, which filter everything including bona fide games that are too mature for children like The Last of Us or The Witcher.
The only way to avoid the constant assault of trash (which by the way has not been removed from Steam) is to filter out everything.
It's like having a filter on Netflix that removes every movie not made for kids just to avoid the "13 year old tentacle rape" movies they would be showing.

Except Netflix doesn't have that kind of movies and if they did and removed them, people wouldn't be screaming censorship.
They'd just put down their remote and go look for it on the internet as they should.

1 hour ago
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And if Netflix/steam decides to not put those games in their service, it's their decision.

When mommy-goverment-Payment processors decides that everybody else will have to follow their rules, and since they can make the rules, everybody have yo obey, there is a problem. And that's literally the definition of censorship, when somebody forces others to remove things even if they do not want.

Using another example I used before. If steam decides they don't want LGTBI games on their service (and there is no way to filter them) it's still their choice. If payment processors-the goverment decides they don't want any LGTBI stuff, they are not giving anybody the choice. They are enforcing what they want. That would be censorship

1 hour ago*
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If steam decides they don't want LGTBI games on their service (and there is no way to filter them) it's still their choice

And if they do, they'll loose customers. That's how the market works.

When mommy-goverment-Payment processors decides that everybody else will have to follow their rules, and since they can make the rules, everybody have yo obey, there is a problem.

I get your point but again should it have been on Steam in the first place?

51 minutes ago
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"And if they do, they'll loose customers" visa and mastercard will lose customers to who? Who exactly will use LGTBI devs? Nope. LGTBI will just disappear from the market. People will buy other things. Visa and mastercard won't lose anything That's why it's worrying when payment processors don't use a neutral stance

"should it have been on Steam in the first place?" i like steam because they are doing what i want payment processors to do: stay neutral. I bet somebody love those games. I bet somebody hate them. I don't like them. But I don't want others to decide what should steam put in their marketplace. If i only defended things i like, I'm not defending freedom, I'm just defending my taste

"If you don't defend the right of people to say things you don't like, then you don't believe in free speech. It's not about defending the speech you like. It's about defending the speech you hate."

Or another way of saying it "Freedom of speech means defending the stuff you don’t like. Otherwise, who decides what’s okay?"

21 minutes ago
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Isn't that itchio is for? Cheap game-shaped porn?
If a store chooses not to sell shit made to look like chocolate, it's not censorship. It's just a choice.
Those "games" literally still exist. You can still buy them. Just not on Steam.

2 hours ago
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I sincerely hope that you are a troll and not a sincere fool.
If this was a conscious decision of the store, then it would not have initially passed these games through the content pre-moderation system.
The situation here is different. There is pressure on the industry from the outside.

1 hour ago
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I tend not to respond to people who are trying to bait me.
These "games" should not have been on Steam to begin with.
If Steam was totally ok selling pedophile porn pausing as games and Visa said "I'm sorry but I refuse to make money off that filth", it would be the same thing.
Now kindly direct your outrage to someone else.

1 hour ago
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These "games" should not have been on Steam to begin with.
Maybe you'll stop acting like a stupid fanatic and explain why they shouldn't be there?
Just because you declare this idea without any arguments doesn't make it valid.

1 hour ago
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Above he replied to a comment regarding monopolists and assumed that it was about Steam, that should answer your question.

1 hour ago
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His comment is not convincing and I can't accept it as an answer.

BUT I don't really care about his opinion.

I started this thread not to argue about censorship, but to think about the perimeter future of Steam and to notify people that some games they want to buy may soon disappear from sale on Steam.

1 hour ago
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well, when there's 2 companies that have over 90% of the payments they can dictate what you can buy, when you can buy, if you can buy

1 hour ago
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While I don't particularly care about the fate of the 78 million Incest Sister games it's absolutely infuriating that Steam can remove them in a matter of days when some big money guys threaten their coin purse, while they didn't do anything to prevent their storefront from being turned into a pile of cheap porn in the first place.

  • Remember that you don't have to buy the game on Steam to complete it... You can find it completely by accident on the Internet!*

I don't think advocating piracy is the solution though :x

1 hour ago
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