Interesting...that's confusing at least and a big loophole at worst. That should be changed to "shall" if that's the intent. If it's a recommendation, then "should" is fine.
I don't see how it is confusing in the least. "Shall" just means that it "will be" region-free, as if you are dictating what will happen. "Should" is a setting a condition, and a required one at that. The meanings are not much different from one another in this context. Using "should" also generally implies cause and effect in the event of a failure to abide by the condition set by it (i.e. you should do it this way or else...)
Should can also mean a suggestion: "You should give it a try; you might like it." You are not obligating or compelling the person. If you want to gift a region-lock game, you might say to yourself, "well, it says they should be region-free, but it doesn't say that they have to be."
I originally read it as a required condition. But there is room for interpretation.
All I'm saying is that it "should" be easy to change it to "Gifts must be region free, and available to all users."
"should" is not "must"
If the creator gives the appropiate info in the description I don't see any problem with it.
People from the region can take part, others can abstain and not waste their points.
"Do not submit CD-keys or Steam gifts that have regional restrictions, or those that require VPN activation or methods to bypass regional restrictions."
Btw.: It doesn't help you to write it in the description. If anybody wins the giveaway outside your region and cannot activate it the winner will mark it as "not received". Please contact the support and delete this giveaway to prevent further problems. Give all people the same chance to win this awesome game next time :)
Yeah well, you may not be a moron but there are plenty of people who are. We see this on a daily basis, everywhere. Both online and in real life. Better to take a tougher stance, and not to 'treat these people with kid gloves' so to speak imo, but that's just me.
True, we all could do without all "how to lvl up" threads. Imo problem is that ppl do not read rules at all, language is secondary. Mods have shown, that legalese tricks don't save culprits from suspensions (ie calling out giveaways). What more, mod team has grown and suspensions are haded out quite quick. 51 users didn't win Dwarfs 100k keys GA, because they were suspended when GA ended.
Maybe a checkbox in the Create a Giveaway page that says, "I assert that this game can be played in all regions" with a link the the unambiguous FAQ. You can't click Submit until you click the checkbox.
Personally, I would like to see the completion of a short quiz (based upon the most relevant parts of the FAQ & guidelines) with correct answers as a requirement before any user is permitted to make any giveaways.
I would have to disagree there. Put a checkbox in front of a moron (or just a lazy person) and they will simply check it and hit submit without actually reading/understanding important information that it was trying to convey to them, and then play the ignorance card later.
I think there's already a BIG pop-up window that says something along the line of "I read the rules and understand how site works" or something similar and you have to check the box to proceed to creating your very first GA (I can't check it myself, obviously). But nevertheless every day we see more than one GA created (and then deleted, or at least not delivered) that goes so blatantly against the rules that it's scary.
People who don't want to read - will not read, no matter language and nuances of it.
Levels were just an example, sadly there are more threads asking about things that are in faq/guidelines/tos.
Levels were a last minute change, done just before launch of new version of the site and had few tweaks since then. FAQ will include it when this tweaking ends (at least that is my hope)
With respect, clarity of language is a little more important IMO than trying not to "sound too harsh." It's a policy. If it's too harsh, then change it. If it's a good policy, then convey it clearly and enforce it. Ambiguity in the rules doesn't help anybody, IMO.
They should make it easier for us to show others their mistake via an unambiguous rule so they'll delete their GA, saving us the trouble of reporting them and SG from having to handle yet another ticket.
As I wrote above/below problematic users don't read rules at all or deliberately choose to ignore them. Legal nuances won't change that.
There is also a history of the site - a place made by one enjoying giving away games for other ppl like him to make it easier for them and guarantee fairness for entrants. By showing general good faith in users and they morality, I think cg wants to keep the spirit from the begginings as alive as it's possible now. I'd say that if that means some bad apples slip through, than it's not a big price to pay for great community
Changing the language means that one has something definitive to show them when one is pointing out their error. See the comment at the top of this GA from QuickNic-- a LEVEL NINE user who seems to be using should vs. shall (or must) as a reason that the region-locked GA is okay. I understand we want this to be a great community (and from what I can tell, by and large it is), but I just don't see the argument against clear language.
As I see it, the site treats everyone as generally decent ppl that can and will behave themselves. This greatly helps in building a community based on joy of giving and receiving. Putting too much legalese shifts atmosphere to trading kind of site.
As a side note, for quite a large chunk of non-english speaking ppl should and shall are synonyms.
I think maybe you're a little too close to the situation...no offense. Changing something nebulous like "should" to something clear like "must" is hardly legalese which would interfere with the philosophy that people are generally decent. And I didn't suggest "shall"; I suggested "must".
Again, I just don't see the argument against clear language. But I can see that The Powers That Be don't agree.
http://www.steamgifts.com/about/guidelines
"Gifts should be region free, and available to all users."
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should not shall
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Interesting...that's confusing at least and a big loophole at worst. That should be changed to "shall" if that's the intent. If it's a recommendation, then "should" is fine.
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I don't see how it is confusing in the least. "Shall" just means that it "will be" region-free, as if you are dictating what will happen. "Should" is a setting a condition, and a required one at that. The meanings are not much different from one another in this context. Using "should" also generally implies cause and effect in the event of a failure to abide by the condition set by it (i.e. you should do it this way or else...)
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Should can also mean a suggestion: "You should give it a try; you might like it." You are not obligating or compelling the person. If you want to gift a region-lock game, you might say to yourself, "well, it says they should be region-free, but it doesn't say that they have to be."
I originally read it as a required condition. But there is room for interpretation.
All I'm saying is that it "should" be easy to change it to "Gifts must be region free, and available to all users."
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THIS
You can get suspended squallon, should give this game key on forum or something, but this not a legitimate giveaway.
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"should" is not "must"
If the creator gives the appropiate info in the description I don't see any problem with it.
People from the region can take part, others can abstain and not waste their points.
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diolch ^^
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Thanks for the Giveaway
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Thank you!
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Please note: It is against the steamgifts.com rules to create regional restricted giveaways.
See FAQ:
Btw.: It doesn't help you to write it in the description. If anybody wins the giveaway outside your region and cannot activate it the winner will mark it as "not received". Please contact the support and delete this giveaway to prevent further problems. Give all people the same chance to win this awesome game next time :)
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+1
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this is not the official FAQ
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True, but it is a quote from the old one prior to SG v2. That said, the rule is still the same.
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just for you right from the official guidelines:
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To avoid confusion, IMO this should be changed to "Gifts must be region free, and available to all users."
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+1
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"must" does sound better, I'll give you that.
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afair ChronicDiscord wrote once that cg did it on purpose as he didn't want it to sound too harhs.
Imo, it's good as it is. It's nice when for once I'm not treated as complete moron when registering to new site
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Yeah well, you may not be a moron but there are plenty of people who are. We see this on a daily basis, everywhere. Both online and in real life. Better to take a tougher stance, and not to 'treat these people with kid gloves' so to speak imo, but that's just me.
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True, we all could do without all "how to lvl up" threads. Imo problem is that ppl do not read rules at all, language is secondary. Mods have shown, that legalese tricks don't save culprits from suspensions (ie calling out giveaways). What more, mod team has grown and suspensions are haded out quite quick. 51 users didn't win Dwarfs 100k keys GA, because they were suspended when GA ended.
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Maybe a checkbox in the Create a Giveaway page that says, "I assert that this game can be played in all regions" with a link the the unambiguous FAQ. You can't click Submit until you click the checkbox.
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Personally, I would like to see the completion of a short quiz (based upon the most relevant parts of the FAQ & guidelines) with correct answers as a requirement before any user is permitted to make any giveaways.
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LOL. It's a fine line...one checkbox wouldn't hurt IMO. A quiz would be hilarious but overkill.
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I would have to disagree there. Put a checkbox in front of a moron (or just a lazy person) and they will simply check it and hit submit without actually reading/understanding important information that it was trying to convey to them, and then play the ignorance card later.
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I think there's already a BIG pop-up window that says something along the line of "I read the rules and understand how site works" or something similar and you have to check the box to proceed to creating your very first GA (I can't check it myself, obviously). But nevertheless every day we see more than one GA created (and then deleted, or at least not delivered) that goes so blatantly against the rules that it's scary.
People who don't want to read - will not read, no matter language and nuances of it.
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Also, the FAQ doesn't say how to level up. That would be a good start. Yes, they can Search the forums...but it's certainly an FAQ...by definition.
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Levels were just an example, sadly there are more threads asking about things that are in faq/guidelines/tos.
Levels were a last minute change, done just before launch of new version of the site and had few tweaks since then. FAQ will include it when this tweaking ends (at least that is my hope)
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With respect, clarity of language is a little more important IMO than trying not to "sound too harsh." It's a policy. If it's too harsh, then change it. If it's a good policy, then convey it clearly and enforce it. Ambiguity in the rules doesn't help anybody, IMO.
They should make it easier for us to show others their mistake via an unambiguous rule so they'll delete their GA, saving us the trouble of reporting them and SG from having to handle yet another ticket.
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As I wrote above/below problematic users don't read rules at all or deliberately choose to ignore them. Legal nuances won't change that.
There is also a history of the site - a place made by one enjoying giving away games for other ppl like him to make it easier for them and guarantee fairness for entrants. By showing general good faith in users and they morality, I think cg wants to keep the spirit from the begginings as alive as it's possible now. I'd say that if that means some bad apples slip through, than it's not a big price to pay for great community
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Changing the language means that one has something definitive to show them when one is pointing out their error. See the comment at the top of this GA from QuickNic-- a LEVEL NINE user who seems to be using should vs. shall (or must) as a reason that the region-locked GA is okay. I understand we want this to be a great community (and from what I can tell, by and large it is), but I just don't see the argument against clear language.
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As I see it, the site treats everyone as generally decent ppl that can and will behave themselves. This greatly helps in building a community based on joy of giving and receiving. Putting too much legalese shifts atmosphere to trading kind of site.
As a side note, for quite a large chunk of non-english speaking ppl should and shall are synonyms.
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I think maybe you're a little too close to the situation...no offense. Changing something nebulous like "should" to something clear like "must" is hardly legalese which would interfere with the philosophy that people are generally decent. And I didn't suggest "shall"; I suggested "must".
Again, I just don't see the argument against clear language. But I can see that The Powers That Be don't agree.
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Thankies!
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Thanks! :)
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Thank you!
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Thanks
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Thanks
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Thx
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Ух,спасибо за шанс..
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+
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Thanks!
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Thank you for this giveaway.
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Thx man!
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Thanks!
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Спасибо, а завистливые людишки тыкающие в ФАК, просто раздражают и показывают свою настоящую скупердяйскую сущность.
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Thanks
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This comment was deleted 1 year ago.
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thanks!
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Cheers.
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Thanks!
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ty ty ty
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dont delete this ga :o
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Inverse psychology or you just want him banned?
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i just want to win the game :D
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He's gifting a region locked key, wich is against the rules
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and is not relevant for me if i win :)
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Well...it is if someone else wins, because he'll get a "not received".
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