Major Series Giveaway #12 - Scanner Sombre [MAJOR]
What do you think of games/walking simulators like Gone Home and Dear Esther?
Interesting visual experience. :O
For the sake of community interaction, please leave a comment and answer my question. There will be some Whitelist and Blacklist action in that regard. :D
Good luck in the giveaway and enjoy the game if you happen to win!
Major Series [MAJOR] - Mainstream games as well as generally popular and cult hit ones; they often have "AAA" production quality or high monetary value.
Minor Series [MINOR] - Almost everything else, usually something that is good but not quite popular or valuable enough to warrant Major status.
???? Series [????] - To Be Revealed.
People are too fixated on "game", just call it "interactive experience" and be done (like with Visual novels).
If it's good, it's good, be it a proper "game" or not.
Personally I liked Gone home since it was interesting enough (same for Tacoma, though Tacoma was too short, there was an opportunity to make a story much bigger and deeper) but disliked Dear Esther because it wasn't very interesting to me plus they made it last "longer" by lowering your walk speed. It was torture. But some visuals were nice.
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The thing is, the medium of modern video games is inherently based off of actual, well, games: Experiences no different than simple physical or board games, just played on the computer.
So, for many people, games remain that - interactive challenges featuring both Success and Failure States, regardless of how many elaborate layers of mechanics are there, as well as how much Narrative is present.
Further, you do have many strong and popular narrative experiences, like the modern Telltale Games and things like Life Is Strange - heck, even Undertale; note how those are still quite interactive and feature many "game-y" features, despite being designed as basically interactive movies (well, the former two).
I thus assume that the negative connotation that interactive experiences like Gone Home and Dear Esther gather come from the fact that they are much more "Railroad Control of a Linear Storytelling Experience" than actually interactive.
I cannot comment on Dear Esther and Scanner Somber, but I did personally enjoy Gone Home - admittedly, a large part of that was the expectation that it was going to turn into something shocking or horror-related; still, even when it didn't, it was still a fine and enjoyable experience.
Personally, I do prefer the likes of the Telltale games or even the Metroidvania-esque Pinstripe; however, much more "passive" experiences like Gone Home are fine, if they are done well - just like any movie, really.
Thank you kindly for responding and good luck next time!
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Totally agree on all points. Plus in our current web culture it became almost a necessity to fight against something (unfortunately, not for something) - very small minority tried to make Gone Home look bad for not being a "game" and labelling it as SJW propaganda.
I had very similar experience, I expected something to happen in Gone home but it never did. Still enjoyed it. I thought that with Tacoma they would improve on the formula and will make it more engaging but in the end it's just the same short linear story with addition of hologram mechanic that was nice and somewhat fresh.
Life is strange was my personal favorite in last years, loved every moment of it. I guess people were more forgiving because you actually had a win/fail states too (outcome of your decisions like saving the girl on the roof). But what I like the most is that you not only choose your narrative path but you see the outcome, and you care about it since you emotionally engaged in the story because you're a part of it, not just an observer. Dear Esther was just "walk slowly, listen to narrator and try to understand WTF is going on", Gone Home at least was not slowed down artificially.
Fun thing is, If you take apart some AAA games like Deus Ex, it's basically the same mechanic: you walk, you find and read stuff, it provides you with a more complete world picture than just by followind a main quest. Except in Dear Esther or Gone Home there is no clear quest line that you follow through to achieve something and real outcome of your deeds (even if in the way of dead bodies on the floor). Probably that's why some part of the crowd don't like the game - no clear goal, no story that you "make" while you progress (in GH/DE you just read it as a page in a book without any actual involvement).
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Ah, yes, the opposite of passionate support: blind, ignorant and vitriolic disparaging.
SJW propaganda? Because of the plot? Whoever thinks that is really, really dumb, lol.
I am not familiar with that at all; but, since we had a similar experience with Gone Home, I should probably try it!
Yeah, my friend has been bugging me to play it since forever. :D I really should... But first I gotta finish The Walking Dead Season 2, haha.
But yeah, the choices present and the experience being more "personal" are a huge factor as to why games like LiS work so well. Definitely a strong tool to get one invested. Realistically speaking, the more "passive" and "observer" experiences like Dear Esther thus need to have that much of a stronger audio/visual (aka presentation) hook.
Yes, you can boil down any good (or bad) game featuring a story, sure - but indeed, the difference is whether the story is a focal point of the experience... And, well, with things like GH/DE, whether you're a passive observer on a train ride or an active participant that shapes the story.
Both can work; and indeed, just like any genre ever, it should just be left alone to those that like it! No need to cause a fuss about the genre if it is not your thing.
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Yeah, some part of the crowd considered it SJW just because developer is fine with gay people and stuff like that, as it was seen in game. Plus there were phrases like "kicking patriarchy" so probably someone was pissed off. I personally don't remember any butthurt even though I hate real SJW propaganda bullshit that became so common last few years (once again, vocal minority usurped attention and uses it for personal profit). For example, some fun stuff with blaming Kingdom Come: Deliverance developer for not including black people in the game (full-white medieval european country, rural area).
Tacoma is the next game from developer who made Gone Home so it's pretty similar, too much I'd say. There was potential for something more deep in terms of story but I guess developer was fine with small game rather than going big. Also very similar in term of expectations vs reality (no scary stuff).
Leaving a game/developer alone to do what they want and leaving a right for yourself to not consume it if it's not for you? Nah, hop on the hate bandwagon! For games that were involved in some PR drama negative reviews are usually not even worth reading - pure trash.
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Oh, yeah... I don't remember that phrase being there, but if someone people disliked the game just because of "the gay thing" then they really are problematic... It was completely inoffensive lol.
Otherwise I agree with you - I am very pro-human how to say, I just want egalitarian values, balance and equilibrium, I just want people not to hurt others... But the SJW propaganda (as you say, for selfish reasons) that takes thing to extremes is very annoying.
Well, probably still worth a playthrough, if I find the time.
Well, I think such reviews are fine in the case of things like... Say... No Man's Sky, where I feel like the bait/switch and general disappointment is basically justified.
Otherwise, yes, it's bullshit.
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Agree, product where company advertised that they have everything and in the end they deliver only 10% of what they told, excluding the really juicy stuff that people were expecting the most... not nice. I guess No Man's Sky developer just brought it on itself and deserves almost all negative reviews. Especially because after initial big wave of sales they didn't managed to put more content into game for a very long time (if at all).
Another example would be some early access games that were basically abandoned (Interstellar marines).
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I remember being quite excited about No Man's Sky but being likewise quite disappointed and deflated once more details came out... And then when the game did - oh boy...
It was similar to Ubisoft's usual spectacular marketing and trailers that contain "gameplay footage".
Reminded me of Spore - damn, I watched a trailer of that as a kid so much... Definitely disappointed with the final product, albeit it was still solid.
As far as Early Access goes, yeah... Whether it is abandonment (Interstellar Marines and Spacebase DF-9) and/or ridiculously slow development (Castle Store and Overgrowth) and/or wasted potential (Overgrowth again), EA can be such a fickle thing.
On the bright side, The Forest was released and seems to be good!
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Didn't played Overgrowth but damn, that development time is almost as good as Duke Nukem Forever :D
Ubisoft... great art team but same stupid side quest type for all games since Asassins Creed (capture point just to capture point). Plus visual downgrades (hello, Watch Dogs). Plus idiotic practice of removing original english language from games sold in other regions (CIS at least). EA did the same though, at least with Battlefield/Mass Effect 3.
Some games use Early Access to fine-tune balance and find bugs before proper release, that's the way to go I think. Especially for very small indie teams who can't afford QA services.
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I played Overgrowth waaay back when and when I looked up the "released" version I was flabbergasted at how little was done over the year... A shame, the core gameplay is great! Indeed, Duke Nukem Forever is somewhat of an apt comparison...
Oh yeah, I have 0 interest in any of the repetitive Ubisoft games... Only good game they made is really Rainbow Six Siege - but then the issue there is that I don't feel like playing a stressful competitive FPS where I can die in half a second due to a tiny mistake.
Yup, Early Access is best for fine-tuning a 80-90% complete product, like an extended pre-release beta if you will.
A great example is Fire Pro Wrestling World (niche, I know): when it was released it was already on par with its predecessor - and although that predecessor is a 2005 PS2 game, it still achieved what it needed to (a new game on modern platforms, primarily PC). Since then it has received fair updates.
A more well known example would be Slay The Spire; it is lacking I think in "width" (as opposed to gameplay depth) and should be a bit longer for those of us that don't want to play ultra-mega hardmode, but is otherwise in a great state for an Early Access game.
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Wanted to try R6 for quite a while but since I don't have anyone to play with, I decided not to: had enough toxic teammates in other games, never again. But game itself looks fun, a lof of small mechanics that can produce fun situations, I often watch videos from GameSprout with R6 highlights.
For me the best 2 online shooters were Unreal tournament 2004 and Battlefield 3 - fast snappy action, not many similar games were made since then.
BTW, have you played Wolfenstein: The new order? Great example of updating an old game with all recent stuff (cinematics, etc) but keeping the fun from the old time (Return to castle Wolfenstein).
Also, if you didn't yet, check The Talos principle - atmosphere and music are great, story is interesting but puzzles can be frustrating at times.
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My friend wants to get myself and another friend to play Siege, but the two of us aren't that into the idea to justify buying it; honestly, if it played it, it would likely be Co-op vs bots!
UT 2004... Man, I played that vs bots as a kid - fun game.
Can't say I don't enjoy modern MP shooters: I really, really like Fortnite and enjoy Paladins (I'd probably play Overwatch if it was free).
What do your friends play if they aren't interested in Siege?
I haven't played the new (or old) Wolfenstein games, but yes, they are rated as pretty good. Not particularly interested though, albeit I respect it (and DOOM).
Talos Principle... Yeah, I've heard it referenced for its puzzles, that doesn't really appeal to me!
If we're talking about recommendations, I'll repeat that I really liked Pinstripe and Bendy and the Ink Machine (despite the latter's faults).
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Some of my pals play Overwatch but they live in another country, playing together will be hard because of ping issues.
You can consider Talos a mix between walking simulator with text reading (terminals) and puzzles. I remember it for the story part, not puzzles though they were nice. At least check soundtrack, it's free on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/user/DamjanMravunac/videos
Noted, will add both games on my list, lately I started to play games again so my backlog should be smaller in a few months and then I'll check smaller games like you recommended.
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Ah, I see. Which country/continent are you in? Also are you interested in OW in the first place? I ask because you were talking about fast, snappy and dynamic FPS games - and OW seems to fit, mostly.
I'll check Talos out, maybe, will see. Super scared of puzzles. :D
Glad to hear, I'm sure you will like the games! Pinstripe is short while Bendy is of decent length, although it is yet to get a 5th episode.
Which games are you currently planning on playing aka which are on the top of your backlog?
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Russia, removed mentioning of it from Steam profile because people start to assume things after seeing where I'm from.
Yeah, Overwatch looks fun in general but all in all nowadays I try to spend as little on online games and as much on story-driven ones, especially since I've accumulated a lot of RPGs that I need to play (some of my Steam library is just me buying games that I played using pirated version back in the days).
Right now I'm playing Deus Ex: Makind divided, liked the original and Human revolution. Plans for the rest of the year, before playing anythign else: STEINS;GATE & STEINS;GATE 0, replaying Witcher 1-2 and finally playing Witcher 3, Planescape: Torment, replaying TES: Oblivion. Will fit some small 8-12 hour games in-between, including SG wins (that's the plan, at least).
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You mean cyka bljat, rush b and all that jazz? Yeah, I can get how that can get annoying. :D
My friend is like that as well, as he really burnt himself out on competitive MP games of all kinds. I still think MP is fun, but indeed primarily if the competitive drive awakens or if you play with friends.
But yeah, I do kinda prefer to play the good, proper story games too these days.
Oh boi, that is going to take a long time! Mankind Divided is good from what I hear, I really should get to play Human Revolution myself... The others are good too, obviously.
Do you plan to play Oblivion vanilla or with mods and stuff?
Oh... Yeah I should get to that. :D
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For me it's more annoying when russians know that you're from Russia :D They start to speak russian with you. God forbid you have 2+ russians out of 5 in games like CS:GO, almost always they will chat only in russian and it's usually just a trash talk while with people from other countries I had fun even if they talked all the time. Also less blaming, people try to have more fun while CIS guys tend to prove that they are better than enemy or teammates.
Yeah, good old RPGs are pretty long... But if you just ditch all the unhelpful web browsing, you have a lot of spare time to invest into games, at least in my case. I finished Skyrim in like 3 weeks and put 150 hours into it. Definetely was worth to play instead of browsing.
Mankind divided looks good so far, I saw people complaining about main story being short (5-6 hours) but I'm a certified lurker and do all the side-quests so I have 15 hours now and didn't even started the main storyline properly :D
Nah, I play vanilla games only. For me all 3 big TES games (Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim) were good without any mods, but I played Skyrim special edition (slowpoked long enough for it to be released).
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I do the same thing. :D There is less of us Serbs than Russians obviously, but I still prefer not to interact with my compatriots online, lol... For the same reasons!
Blasphemy! Random procrastinating is the way to go. :D
Yeah, I'd love to improve my self control to stop it. :X
Yeaaaaah, sounds like me. I did the same thing while I was playing Skyrim!
I do too. I'm planning on getting around to actually restarting and beating Skyrim vanilla (with maaaybe some convenience/UI mods or something) and then get into mods afterwards, just for some sandbox fun.
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I played a lot of walking simulators, Gone Home, Dear Esther, Drizzlepath series, Everybody's Gone to the Rapture, N.E.R.O, Lifeless Planet, The Music Machine, Mind: Path to Thalamus, The Old City: Leviathan and many many more and personally I really enjoy them but I know that quite a lot people just not understand this type of games, leaving a lot of negative reviews and its make me feel bad if game actually good. Just not play if not your genre, like me for example, I never playing shooters (i like rpg/shooter though like borderlands) and I mostly dislike this genre, stories about war and etc seems really boring for me and I could leave negative review too but Im not doing it because I understand that Its just not my type of game. Of course some games deserve some negative reviews but not for reasons that usually I see in walking simulators games. If talk about experience, its always relaxing to play, its reminds me surreal dreams and this games can inspire. I always feel good to play it, sometimes its needed diversify gaming experience too from rpgs and story driven games
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Interesting how you indeed differentiate the "walking simulators" from story-driven games; I do personally prefer the latter and the "walking simulators" I do like are the ones with more story!
Really, that genre is about being somewhat-interactive movies; if done well, they can be really enjoyable.
I do certainly agree that Negative reviews should not be left if it just isn't your genre.
Thanks for the opinion and good luck next time!
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I personally tend to enjoy them greatly (specially The Stanley Parable and the amazing What Remains of Edith Finch). I find that the good ones tend to focus on some good environmental storytelling and tend to use mechanics and pacing in an expressionist way. These characteristics are not exclusives to "walking simulators", but i think that the pressure on developing a more traditional set of mechanics (i.e. shooting, jumping) can sometimes detract focus from them in "mainstream" games.
On the whole "these are/are not games" debate, I understand the point of those who think they're not because of the absence of clear failure states and not adhering to the exact dictionary definition on what constitutes a "game", but I have some pragmatic objections to starting to call them (and only them) "virtual experiences".
If we had always called "games" "virtual experiences", I would be totally fine but, as the term "games" has already come intrinsically linked to video games, the isolation of these two types of experiences into different forms of media would ultimately be prejudicial to both of them. Any kind of divide would decrease link between the two and, consequentially, the amount of things one could learn from the other. Imagining that Steam created a separate tab for "interactive experiences" as it did for software and VR, it would be harder for a "gamer" to be aware of one "interactive experience" and vice-versa, which ultimately narrows.
I think that the "interactive experiences" are the weakest link here financially, so I fear that the separation from games to another kind of media would spell the death of this genre.
So, I see 2 options: 1- either we start referring to all games as "interactive experiences" as the term applies equally well to both of these, and make genre distinctions between them, or 2- accept them all as games and make that same sort of genre distinctions. I do believe the second one is more sensible.
As to what name to give such a genre distinction, I do not know. I do find the term "walking simulator" a bit derogatory, so we should probably come up with a different one equally "catchy".
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I really need to get to playing The Stanley Parable, thanks for reminding me! Yes, I agree, I certainly prefer ones that do have a good story to tell and are not just about an unique audio/visual experience.
As you mention scenarios where the "walking simulator" design is sacrificed for more traditional gameplay elements, I am reminded of Bendy and the Ink Factory, which I recently played (well, up to its most recent release).
Although it is more of a "First Person Puzzle Horror Game" than a Walking Simulator, that game - with its fantastic audio/visual presentation - is honestly brought down with the somewhat jarring usage of standard jumping, running and even combat mechanics (and fetch quests, lol). It still captivated me enough despite that, but it would have been better if it was closer to Amnesia proper or, indeed, a more passive Walking Simulator experience. I still recommend it, though.
Although I do agree - especially about "Walking Simulator" being intrinsically derogatory and "Interactive Experience" being far too wide of a term to a silly degree - I don't think it is that big of an issue... Also, to some level I feel that changing the name of the genre is impossible now, as the term has kinda stuck.
Nonetheless, I agree that no hard lines should be drawn in terms of how these games are sold. They should be on Steam as all the others are!
Not sure what a better name would be, though... Something "Passive"? Mellow? Easy-going?
Just don't go with "casual"!
Thanks a bunch for your thoughts and good luck next time!
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The Stanley Parable is great and nothing like that exists as far as I know. Really, really recommend it - truly unique experience!
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I watched a few videos about the original (HL mod) on YouTube and it definitely was... Something!
So yeah, I do plan to try and experience it one day. :)
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Thanks for the chance
As far as walking simulators are concerned, it really depends on how the interactive part suits the theme of the game.
For instance I hated Gone Home because it was supposed to be a nostalgic walk through your souvenirs, but the game forced you to go through a nonsensical and tedious maze in your own house with useless enigmas.
On the other hand, I loved Firewatch because the long and silent walks totally made sense and reinforced the feeling of loneliness and the need for a friend the main character was supposed to experience.
Overall Amnesia: The Dark Descent is one of my all time favourite. Not because of the scary parts, but because this "walking simulator" was the most immersive shit I had seen and it really delivered a story in a way I had never experienced before.
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Indeed; most of them try to be "slightly more interactive movies" in a way, even then being "slow, encompassing experiences" more than game-movies with a directly delivered plot.
Although I agree that the trek through the house doesn't make much realistic sense in terms of it truly being "maze-y", it didn't really feel that way while playing; at least not to the point of detracting from the experience. Further, the feeling of "anything can happen next" was present for me, including that the entire hinted reveal thus far was a red herring - I basically felt that, as far as I knew, the point of the game could be "you're a ghost all along" or something (not to say that the actual story and experience was bad; I liked it).
Cannot comment, but I really should try it out.
As you describe it, though, yes: that sounds like the correct marriage of theme/gameplay.
A biiiit too spooky for me, along with the puzzles just being annoying. It honestly stopped me from playing it more than a quarter through. :/
Speaking of that though, I tried Bendy and the Ink Machine on a whim; expected an Amnesia-like and, for the first episode, that is what I got (albeit at a faster pace). Later, it drastically changed - a bit for the worse, honestly. Still, I recommend that game as it is a truly great audio/visual experience with an interesting story!
Thanks for your input and good luck next time!
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If you want something less spooky, try SOMA from the same team that made Amnesia.
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My friend did like it a lot and recommended it too; I might try it, thanks!
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It's not ideal story-wise (characters reactions to some things, ruined it for me, especially ending), even developer admitted it and said that at the moment they just had no money to redo stuff plus it was long enough in development so they just released it as is. But it's still nice and tackles some ideas/problems that hit close to home in my case.
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Hm, interesting; if it manages to be enjoyable and compelling despite such flaws then it must be good. I'll surely have to play it!
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Thank you for the game. I am so sorry that I failed to thank you previously.
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No problem! Thank you for remembering and courteously saying thanks. :)
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