"Once you make a purchase, you should receive a unique download page. You shall not, directly or indirectly, disclose the unique URL for your download page to anyone else or use anyone else's download page."
It also says "All keys are for your personal use only." below the keys on each download page.
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"Once you make a purchase, you should receive a unique download page. You shall not, directly or indirectly, disclose the unique URL for your download page to anyone else or use anyone else's download page."
this is about being safe, like the guidelines for steam "do not share your account with your family, because you will still be responsible for it".
i actually would like a word from Humble themselves. can someone write them?
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The "All keys are for your personal use only." is pretty clear, plus this topic on their support website makes their intentions fairly clear (it'd be nice if their sentence made grammatical sense, but the message is clear enough).
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To be fair, "All keys are for your personal use only" comes across as nothing more than a "Not for resale".
Because you just know somebody would nail a square hundred $1 bundles, generate the keys, then happily go about reselling the individual pieces of content to undercut retail whenever the bundle is deactivated.
In one hand, it's nice to have a sharp outline of the rules and agreements in front of you so that you can't misinterpret what you're agreeing to. In the other, it's even nicer to not have to wade through full user agreements and multiple-step licenses to purchase an already cheap-as-chips bundle, while also getting to decide where your money goes.
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If I redeem my Origin/Desura key but giveaway my Steam key is that piracy does it also work the other way around? If so is this site is founded on piracy?
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If the bundle comes with a DRM free version of a game, giving out any keys is "piracy"
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By the legal definition of piracy, no. By the moral definition of piracy, not necessarily, as I all the time buy extra bundles and give away all the keys from them, but don't use the DRM-free versions from those extra bundles because I bought my own copy of the bundle for myself.
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Oh, that's not necessarily my point of view. I'm just interpreting the OP :P
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The answers to your questions are Yes, and No. Giveaways aren't normally the result of bundles with dual keys, enabling people to redeem it on the platform they like and toss out the version they don't. That's entirely different than giving away the games you already own or simply don't want.
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But when you buy a Humble Bundle, you didn't really buy a bundle of games, you bought a bundle of game licenses. All those licenses are equivalent, so it doesn't make any difference whether you give away each of them individually or give away the ones that happen to be for the same game together.
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I generally agree. I don't feel bad about sharing a single copy of a game from a bundle that I either already have or know I definitely won't ever play, but I'd feel awfully guilty about taking advantage of them offering the convenience of multiple platforms in order to either profit in trade or deprive them of sales by giving away an alternate platform version of a game that I do intend to play the Steam or DRM-free version of. If I redeem a game on one platform, I redeem it on all platforms offered.
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So then, this DOES include a case where I already have a certain game from a Bundle and am just sharing that extra key I got? I'm not using THAT license to the game, since I already HAVE a license to it.
And is this only Humble Bundles or other bundles too?
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I think there was a debate earlier this week, where one person put it pretty succinctly: the two categories are personal and commercial use. Giving for free = personal, selling/trading = commercial.
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And I quote (myself :P):
There are only two ways to classify "use": Personal or Commercial.
Since "Commercial" would be re-selling the games/keys, Humble and the like are pretty much stating this is not allowed. Giving an item you bought to someone else as a free gift is not a commercial use, therefore it would fall under "personal use".
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for ex.
I bought Transformer movie trilogy in BUNDLE, I am giving out the 2 & 3 to my friend. the movie maker gonna think I am stealing...
yeah right.....
honestly if EA is serious about this they would have given the origin CD key in the Steam same as the origin key in listed in Humble. Origin key in Humble vs the origin key in steam is 2 DIFF key for the very same client. = 2 licences
Giving away the origin key in steam is piracy after u used the steam key, but giving away the humble origin key is not piracy. Until u can find a way to tell the diff between the two dont go assume everything is illegal.
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I thinks it's more like you are buying a movie which includes a DVD version and a BluRay version in one pack. There's a sticker on the outside of the box that says that the copies are for personal use only.
I do agree with your second and third paragraphs though. The bundle gives you two Origin keys for each game.
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It's a sticky ground to navigate, really. Though I have been dealing with some Origin issues just lately and in the help files I noticed that you can redeem keys issued by steam on your Origin account. At a guess, if there was any worry about piracy, they would have issued a single key that could be redeemed on both distribution platforms. Though there may be complications with that, as I obviously don't know the underpinning systems and which games this cross-system redeeming applies to. I mean, EA are one of the big (if ugly) dogs in the gaming market, and Valve own the mother of all distribution set-ups, so you'd think they would foresee such sharing behaviour. EA are especially iron-fisted when it comes to matters of finance, so I doubt they would let it slip by them so easily.
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Imho, sharing a single code (per game) for a game that you already own is fine. You've already bought the game once, so buying it again via a bundle should allow you to receive a second copy to give to a friend. It's the same as buying the game through the bundle, then buying a gift copy for a friend.
However, in the case of the Humble Origin Bundle, I definitely don't support giving the Origin and Steam keys to separate people; I'm especially against using the Steam key for yourself, the Origin key for someone else, and then the Origin CD Key that's generated by Steam to a third person.
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But what's the difference? When I bought the Origin Bundle, I bought two copies of all of those games. They advertised that each bundle would include keys for Origin and Steam, so I was buying two copies of each game. I bought a big bundle of licenses, and if it's okay to give away some of those licenses, then it's okay to give away any of those licenses; the fact that two of those licenses happen to be for the same game is completely irrelevant.
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You can look at it however you want, but my justification is based on the intent of the bundle creators. They want to give each person one copy of each game, so I believe that I should be able to give that copy away if I've already payed for another copy. They certainly didn't want to give the user two copies of each game, but that ended up being a side effect of allowing multiple keys for multiple services.
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They actually gave three copies for each game (2x Origin, 1x Steam). They should have known that the Steam copies can be redeemed on Origin as well.
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In reality, the games that have multiple keys are all old enough that EA probably cares a lot more about the positive marketing that a giveaway of an Origin key brings than the fact that those people are getting free games, especially when they wouldn't have been payed anything even if that person had bought the bundle. Do what you want with those keys for this bundle; my opinion doesn't really apply to it anyways.
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Yeah, but the creators also only wanted all the games in each bundle to go to one individual, so we're already violating the creators' intent anyway.
Besides, I also think that the creators don't really care if more people have access to their game so long as they are not missing out on any sales which they otherwise would have had. If you give keys to people who otherwise wouldn't have been able to buy the bundle at all, then you aren't taking away a sale, so I don't see what difference it would make to them.
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Nope you bought 1 license of each game.. they were just nice enough to let you choose where you wanted to put that game.. on Steam or on Origin (or both if it makes you happy) but nowhere is it said you bought 2 license or should share them around.
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Your opinion is in fact wrong.
"If I already have a game(s) in the bundle do I have the ability to gift the extra copy in the bundle?
Unfortunately, if you already have a game in the bundle you will not be able to gift the extra games to a friend.
Please consider your bundle a "unit", and not to share copies of the games or Steam keys from it.
If you'd like to give a copy of the games away, we have a system in place that allows you to buy a gift key from www.humblebundle.com so your friends can have access to direct downloads as well as any Steam or other keys we have included." - Humble Bundle support
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I wasn't claiming that my opinion was the only right and true way of doing things; I'm merely saying that I believe that giving away a key in that circumstance fits the general intent of the bundle, even if their specific opinion says that we should be treating the bundle as a single unit.
1 + 2 should equal 2 + 1, so owning a copy before the bundle and using the bundle copy as a gift should be the same as owning a copy from the bundle and buying a copy as a gift, in my opinion.
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In this particular case I don't think its so bad to give away your extra key because the whole reason EA is doing this is to get more Origin users. Someone who bought a bundle and had a choice would obviously go directly for the steam version, but giving away the Origin key would force that person to use Origin. EA isn't making any money off this either way, so that one extra Origin user is actually the only "profit" for them (in fact, splitting up the games means multiple Origin users while keeping the keys to yourself would only give them one). Potentially depriving a charity of money is much more questionable, but if the giftee wasn't willing to spend one dollar on a whole game pack in the first place I doubt it could really be seen as a lost donation.
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How do you know that they wouldn't have bought the bundle? If multiple keys were given out for every bundle in the future I bet some people would wait for the key drops for the game(s) that they wanted instead of buying the bundle.
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this is also the the argument all the pirates say "I would not have bought it anyways". If they would not have bought any games anyways they would not need a 4782039560$ dollar computer for gaming. Back to your therm: Perhaps he would have bought the game somewhen in steam sale?
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The charity I gave to apparently only has a 2/5 star rating :(
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what is said here is true, about giving the 2 keys to seperate people being a bad thing (though honestly, im sure most of the people getting the origin keys wouldnt have bought it anyway). It is true that you arent supposed to do that, however, what is also true is that EA did this bundle probably to get more people on origin thus force them to spend more money but the side-effect was allow easy access to getting 2 copies. That was a risk EA was willing to take to possibly profit more with more people on origin, and wanting to build their libraries since they are already on the service, thats what i think.
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Every computer related forum I know of do not allow this to happen. That is it.
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Gifting a key can be understood as "personal use of the key". So I'm fine with that. Anywho, "its intended to be ONE LICENSE for ONE PERSON"? Well, if I give a license in the form of a key away to ONE PERSON, then I don't see what's wrong with that. The license is still with one person. It's legal bubbling, if it's not declared EXPLICITLY I can do within those legal limits whatever the hell I want.
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The whole bundle is supposed to be for 1 user.. people on this site go around that. But then when they are nice enough to give you a Steam key and an Origin key for you to use the platform of your choice, it doesn't mean you bought 2 licenses.. you're normally still entitled to a 1 user rule. But obviously you see the rules however they suit you the best.
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Preach Brother!
I've been saying this since day 1, and either get ignored or attacked. I feel the exact same way: not only are they one-person licenses but (at least for HIB) they specifically tell you not to give the codes out. The games are already cheap as HELL so it seems fair to abide by their rules. Some people are more interested in maximizing profit and screwing people over to care about that though. Which is why we can't have nice things.
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I buy games and gift the keys, they make money and people are happy with their games, everyone is happy... IDC abut origin and desura keys, i give them away cos i wont use them, and i hate wasting things. If they combine the games into single keys like they have a few times, I will probably stop buying the bundles, everyone loses. :P
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Bobo, I am disappoint. Online forums are going to have a fair amount of snark, sarcasm and unfounded sense of self-cleverness. It's natural. No need to suspend for such behavior unless it's especially egregious. I can only assume there's more shit going on behind the scenes and there's a lot of misdirected anger and annoyance. Obviously it's your call, but I would hope you'll reverse the suspensions. Also, there's a lot of gray area in this topic, and I think the view you're taking is a bit overly simplistic.
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I'm sorry to hear that :(. Being a mod seems to be a pretty tough job, especially since you're all volunteers.
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No way! It's all sunshine and lollipops and rainbows and unicorns. I would have thought my eternally cheery disposition would have clued everyone in to that. Being on staff is like a full-time party. We just ride around in the SG party van and figure out new ways we can abuse our authority for fun and profit.
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My apologies for the assumption. Then let the message be directed to whoever made the decision. I would, however, make a slight correction: I'm pretty sure the proportion of the community that isn't worth your time is far greater than 50%.
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If you left I would miss you, Bobo. You're one of my favorite SGers. And you're a vital part of support. Sorry that so many people have been assholes to not only you, but the rest of the mods as well. :<
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Come on, don't be like that.
Any community of a big enough size and worth its salt will get into situations like this from time to time. Most people are used to active moderators either being cold and apathetic or just outright obnoxious power-trippers. It's almost a foreign concept to see a staff member who is simply expressing frustration on a subject they feel strongly about. Besides, by sods law you'll never be able to please all of the people all of the time.
Though if it's draining your time and making you feel shat on, you could always take a back seat for a week or two just to catch your breath, y'know? I just don't think it's a great idea to leave suddenly and on a sour note. I mean, hell, I'm in slight disagreement with your opening post but you don't seem like a bad dude. I mean, sure, things could have been worded better but since when has your average gamer been known to pull punches in an offbeat online forum? Besides, disagreement or not, this thread and the comments it generated did give me food for thought.
It might be a thankless job at times but don't discount your own efforts. Lord knows there are plenty of people to do that for you and call you a "nuub fgt" in the process :P
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Even though this "sharing of licenses" is obviously rampant and is clearly allowed on SG bobofatt decides to make a thread about it and then bash on the community when they lash out at him.... smh.
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Do you think the suspensions were issued by Bobofatt? I don't think so.
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I did, and apparently that was incorrect. But if he created the thread and there is an "EDIT" with no indication that it's from a different source, then the natural assumption is that it was the OP.
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I don't typically give away duplicate keys, at least to strangers. Typically, for single player games my husband gets the Steam key, and I either get the pc version or the Desura one if there is one. I think it's silly to give multiple key types away when selling a game, and (at least in the same household) not be able to use them all. Especially since DRM did not exist at one time. We use to be able to buy one game and share it. If it's a dollarbie bundle, no biggie we both buy a copy. But when the games start getting more expensive, then it becomes a budget issue since we end up having to buy doubles of everything, because if it's not on the same service (like Steam and PC) and it's multiplayer, we still can not play together. So I feel a little less bad about the two of us sharing keys on the single player games.
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Its not black and white, this is a grey area, always has been, I forget exactly but I remember multiple stories of people asking Humble directly and those people getting multiple different answers.
People should just buy it themselves, its a couple dollars for a handful of games, actually the only time I ever gave away Humble games or any other bundle game is when I really wasn't going to use it, and by that I mean I would never touch the game or activate it on any of the services or even download the DRM free copy.
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I definitely agree with you on your opinion bobafatt and not only the humble bundles but any charity bundles offered. Seeing that now these have been all the rage has really gotten me into either buying or winning bundle keys. I have won so many like recently I won the deep silver bundle BTA and today the doujin bundle. It's cool that these bundle that you pay the minimum to obtain the games that normally you pay over hundreds of dollars but you have the option to pay above the average and receive bonus items as well.
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I see no problem with this. Someone pays for a bundle, gets the keys, and either uses them or gives them out. There is no multiple use of a game. Humble Bundle states that the keys you purchase are for personal use. This could mean several things.
However, DRM-free versions of games being distributed to people who didn't originally pay for it is something I don't tolerate.
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I'm sick of all of you little shits overreacting to everything. Also, just because you volunteer doesn't mean you get to act like complete utter assholes.
PC4D4-99K2J-0HN8G
6HBK-MHGB-GVRV-6L2Y-544X
JDT57-6I2FY-MXQXR
E8J2-G3NC-FJMD-UX8Z-USLS
XR0BP-VI5IG-TQHZN
3R99-SW6F-J9PY-9SBL-S93P
C6AXQ-PA05M-I34NZ
B9DD-2CCA-LFNK-ZLDL-L9LU
3NX58-D0ETR-VDKA8
ACDM-LXCQ-BT3C-D2ES-H5L5
GYN6-MNHY-RB7K-GYL4-826T
Do whatever the fuck you want.
Bitch.
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LOL that picture. But seriously, relax. You're not even directing your anger in the right direction.
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I'm not sure if I should be impressed or disturbed by the fact you took time to draw that. The Mega Man likeness is good, though.
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Please staff does a decent job here, have you ever been to other forums? Staff here are actually pretty great....Some forums just saying the word Shit gets you banned.
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Woah...
I'm guessing the Love genes were recessive?
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The Art genes were intact though, look at that raw passion.
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Haha! That was a formidable piece of penmanship...
I always understood that CG was a benevolent robot rather than a giant disembodied penis. A good piece of art should challenge our perceptions of reality though, and this has made me question everything.
Perhaps we can all be reduced down to nothing more than the singular existence of our own reproductive organs It is truly a deep and multi-layered piece, and one whose many meanings I will be mulling over for years to come...
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MegaMan has defeated DickMan, and gained the ability "Dick Shield". Nice.
ETA And his shield of dicks has the ability to protect the entire SG staff while in use. Awesome!
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I bought keys. I can do whatever the hell i want with them. If i buy a car and give it to someone, ill bet thats not stealing from a car dealership. So what i have 2 keys for the same game. Ill give them both away. PIRACY is when you DO NOT pay for a game. So if i get a buy one get one free xbox game and i give one away, its piracy? Your a moron. Even if i SOLD the keys its still not piracy because duh I PAID FOR THEM. No different them gamestop. Besides, who gives shit what i do with my keys, upir probably just mad no one gives you any games.
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No. You bought one license available to you on multiple platforms. That's the whole point of this thread. You weren't given extra 'freebies' to pass around to your friends or try to trade. Only a fool would think that. All the keys are for you. Keeping the keys for one platform for yourself and giving the others away is allowing unlicensed access to the content, better known as piracy.
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People keep saying that you get only one license, but could someone point out the source? The way I see it - if you use the Steam key on your own Steam account and then the Origin key on your own Origin account - that's still two licenses, is it not?
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Your comparison is not accurate because Steam and Origin are owned by different companies, granting different licenses. Itunes is owned by Apple both on computer and iPod. It's more like if you get one copy of a song for iTunes and another copy for Cloud player, those are two separate licenses. If you redeem the key on Steam, it gives you an individual license, separate from the one you get from Origin. Unless the EULAs get updated, specifying that if the key comes from humble and you have already redeemed on the other service, then the second key is invalid.
Edit: I do believe it's morally wrong to share the keys for the same game, same as you, but I also believe you legally get multiple licenses.
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Neither Valve nor EA are owners of the content, except where it's one of their games. In this specific case, EA actually are the content owners, and the issuers of the licenses, but in other circumstances, we might assume it's a third-party game that is owned by another publisher. They issue the license and own the content, and the DRM/digital distribution platforms are analogous to the separate devices of computer/player. Maybe the analogy doesn't hold up, but I feel pretty confident it does. I believe you're only getting the one license from the entity in possession of the IP, usually the publisher, and the platforms are actually just middlemen supplying the data/content and taking a cut because of it to cover their overhead.
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And yet, corporations want the ability to outlaw resale.
They want that book you bought at chapters to be a single use item. And that car to have 0 resale value you second you drive it off the lot, and be considered stealing if you did resell it.
Yet, most countries laws prevent this level of unethical licencing.
And strangely some people actually think that you should go along with these farces of licences.
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You can give away bundles as long as they stay bundled. Giving away each game separately violates the site's intent. See post below.
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When you buy a Humble Bundle, you're paying for a license to be used by one person for each game. Humble is awesome, and set up this cool thing where you get to use your license on whatever platform you wish that's available. You can get a Steam license, a Desura license, a DRM-free license, or even Origin license, but its intended to be ONE LICENSE for ONE PERSON. When you pay for one bundle and then let multiple people access the same games, it's piracy.
I see Desura keydrops here all the time, and I know they're duplicate licenses from Humbles. Now we get Origin keydrops everywhere. Witcher/Witcher 2 GOG backup codes on SteamTrades. Don't Starve Chrome keys. It's piracy. You're sharing a one-person license.
Humble is awesome, GOG/CD Projekt is awesome. Let's stop abusing their awesomeness. Encourage people to buy themselves instead of hunting for keydrops. And for the love of GabeN quit trying to profit off of them through trade.
EDIT: HEY, DO WHATEVER THE HELL YOU WANT WITH YOUR KEYS. You're not going to get in trouble, you're not going to get arrested. When you share your licenses, it just makes most people who understand software licensing think you're an asshole. We're not going to stop you, we're not going to suspend you. The two suspensions below were because it's pretty damn disrespectful and stupid to do it in this thread. Have a good day, and thanks for the drama.
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