Do you think it would be time for a change?
some dlc's suck, mostly dlc's for games with story or multiplayer mode only are usually fine
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horse armor
well, there were expansions but most of the time they added more content than the dlc does
and they were expansions, like the name says, of the game not adding missing content to it
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yep
is funny how everyone talked shit of horse armor back in the day and now they are buying it without problem
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So true but at least they had fixed it by lowering the price and it did actually add something in the game that was not in it DLC then was new at least in that form so at least they where trying to find the best use for DLC.
Though most of the other DLC was fun and worth it,i love the Thieves den and the add-ons where great but then again non dlc was needed to enjoy the game i never bought the horse armor,but all the rest i did.I had the xbox 360 then and it was my real first time playing any huge RPG like that since the super nintendo.
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at the end of the sentence I was speaking of horse armor as all the dlcs that are useless but still we buy
anyway there's no way of knowing it without me explaining it, my mistake
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I remember when you unlocked new content by playing the game, now all you need is your wallet
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In case of payday 2: you don't need to buy them to play them. If the host has the DLC (1 out of 4 people) you can play the level. The cosmetics are only for the one with the DLC, but only some care about an extra mask. So it's not as bad as you might think. On the other hand, it does kinda get expensive if you want all dlc's.
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Or if you want the better guns + mods. Or if you don't want to miss half of the acheivements.
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You can actually get a lot of the Payday 2 achievements without the DLC. Anything that is map specific can be unlocked as long as the host has the maps you just won't unlock stuff like masks/mods tied to those achievements until you own the DLC. The onl ones you can't really get are those that require using/modding certain weapons.
Honestly anyone that's serious about achievement hunting/whoring should have accepted the costs long before now or chosen t skip on achievements.
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I quit like a year ago when the DLC started getting out of control. It blows my mind that people are even still playing this game with the amount of cashgrabbing that has been going on for so long.
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It's not so much better guns and mods, rather different. Some guns and mods may feel like they make aiming and shooting easier, but you really don't need them to be good at the game and to enjoy it.
I don't really care for acheivements, but I guess it can make the game more interesting to some players.
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I think the frequent DLC updates in Payday 2 keeps the game and community alive. Some of them are a bit useless and seemingly quick cashgrabs, but there are also some valuable ones in the mix :)
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At least its completely new content as opposed to completed content that was removed and then sold as DLC. More so, every piece of DLC for Payday is optional and will in no way divide the community, apart from those that kick DLC users.
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The thing is Payday 2 was promised a lot and never gave it,and instead was released later as DLC.
So yes some of it was tacked on later that was suppose to be in the release.
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Yeah, the PD2 DLCs are becoming ridiculous. The Clover DLC annoyed me the most. First they dangle the idea of finally having a female in the game over people's heads for like a damn year. Then, for months they keep showing her, and making you think she'll be released soon, but then nothing. Then when they FINALLY release her, they make her a paid DLC. That's quite dirty in my opinion. If there had already been multiple females in the game before Clover, then I wouldn't have minded it as much. Just like Killing Floor... they knew people wanted a female and would pay. Overkill is money hungry.
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You have bonnie to play as. Bonnie is super cool and is a woman :U and freeeee
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It's been 2 years since they released a game. Would you rather have bare bones yearly releases with no support or DLC?
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You can also get Clover in a $1 bundle right now: https://groupees.com/ggg
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Extra Credits <- explains the problem with used games and why dlc is a thing.
Their videos are pretty good. You have to realize that on steam, valve takes a piece of their cut there too. And nowadays, if you make a game that sells, why would you want to change that? It's dangerous now. A failed game really, really hurts financially. There's a massive amount of games in the market now and games you're constantly competing against. Not to mention how much money it costs to create the game. The graphics, sounds, voice acting, mechanics, etc. Takes a very long time and a lot of work and money. And you don't get a payday until the game actually sells. And then, you have to hope you didn't lose money. People need to make money and they need to eat and pay bills and taxes. And not to mention make more money to continue making more games and content. I don't really see how it's a dick move to charge 5 smackadoodles for a dlc that you don't even need. Or 15 bucks for a nice expansion on the game like bioshock infinites burial at sea episodes. (A lot of people complained about that for how long it took for them to make it. They literally couldn't reuse many assets and had to build that world from the ground up.)
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It would be nice if that was really the case but most of the time it is about a constant income vs making a shit ton of money.
Despite GTA V smashing record and making a shit ton,the share holders still where up in arms over the fact that they do not have a stream on money coming in it comes in chunks because of how they release games.
The share holders are pushing them to make a profit every quarter instead of making money in big chunks so they end up doing something like shark cards.
This is why more and more games have silly and stupid dlc for people to buy it gives them a steady income,going public is not a good move to raise more money because nobody invest in stocks anymore for future cash,they want to get rich now.they expect a profit every quarter nobody will ever turn a profit every quarter forever but to do stock holders care nope they just want the green.
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Ehem, today for AAA games, development costs is only fraction of total budget. Biggest part is marketing that can reach x3 of development costs. It's just easier for publishers to cut-out content and sell as DLCs so buyers won't notice price hike, than to cut costs and change the way they operate.
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Content can be really sucky, cosmetics are totally a non issue as they don't affect the game and the only people really affected by them are OCD completionists/collectors.
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Yes it sucks, but people pay, so things will only get worse
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some games even divide the complete storyline into seperate buyable episodes.
Are you referring to games like Telltale's or Life is Strange ? Because I don't really see the problem with these
Also not seeing the problem with steam trading cards (and virtual items in general). People are free to spend their money as they want. The only thing that bothers me a little is that you need to level up on steam to get showcases. That should be a basic feature available to everyone.
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Those are games where you buy a whole season, though, not just one chapter. I think s/he means things more like The Journey Down -- games that you have to buy each installment separately.
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Ha, maybe, but I don't see the problem with these either. There's been series of movies and books for ages, why not with video games ?
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I don't really like games with episodes, but that just means I wait for the entire season to be released before I play it. Its the same reason I'd usually rather watch a show via streaming then live. I'd rather consume them as I want.
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Same here. I played The Walking Dead season 1 and The Wolf Among Us episode by episode, as they were released. But for TWD season 2, I played the whole season in a week, one episode per day, and I enjoyed it much more. Now I'm waiting for the full season of their 2 current games and Life Is Strange ^^
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AFAIK on consoles you can buy every Telltale Episode separately.
It sounds like you might even be able to buy Episode 2 and 5, without ever touching rest of them.
Life is Strange on PC also comes in "Episode 1" and "rest Episodes", so you can buy Ep1, decide you don't like it and skip rest of story.
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Doom should come on a floppy, not one of those new-fangled shiny frisbees.
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Compact discs are just a fad! Zip drives are the way to go!
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Doom wouldn't fit on a floppy though - you needed several.
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Grammar police! ><
And technically Doom WOULD fit on a singular floppy if it was 3.5 extended density and you compressed the data.
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The 90% of released games are junk because Greenlight, preorder, early access, sheeps, the rest are corporate decision failures cause old man dont care or have clear mind to thing what young people want.
The 98% of DLC's are junk...
- because they dont match the quality of the main game.
- because they dont offer something new like when you buying a new game.
- because price is too high, you can buy a game on sale with.
But there 2% of dlcs that worth your money even if cost 10$.
- Mario Kart 8 (2 dlcs just for 12euro) with like a full game content.
- Borderlands 2 Tiny Tina's.
- Bioshock 2 DLC.
- Skyrim Dragonborn.
- Oblivion Shimmering Islands.
- Pre-Sequel Claptastic Voyage (never finished the boss, just tired but was nice and long experience overall).
- Mass effect series some DLC'S.
- Fallout 3 and new vegas DLC's.
Yes thats it, good and worthwhile dlcs are finger counted.
PC gaming slowly dying, i need Half-Life 3 to get hyped again.
If i forget something correct me please.
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I'm with you, and most of the main games is 80% "broken" anyway. They hope we as gamers will tell them where all the problems is and then they fix that part of the game using updates or DLC's....then you buy part of the game again that should have been fix from the start.
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Back in the day, you also didn't get any more content for games. Once it was released, that was it, until they made a sequel. I like the idea of being able to get more content in my games.
Is it always well executed? No. But there's not a bit of it that you need to purchase.
If you feel it doesn't add anything to the game, don't buy it.
If you feel its not worth the asking price, don't buy it.
But don't complain about having the option to do so.
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The thing that annoys me most is the fact that games are released WITH DLC. Like I always used to think of DLC as stuff that the developers made after the game had released, but now I'd say near enough every AAA game is released with DLC.
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There's often time between a game being finished and a game actually releasing a lot of that content is developed in this time.
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Yes and no (Well just yes but there are exceptions). On disk day one DLC is in bad taste but day one digital only DLC is fine. Now maybe they should consider delaying digital DLC release a little from launch.
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Then everyone hyped for the launch and thinking it's going to be better than it is wouldn't buy the DLC.
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And that would be better for the consumer. Personally I don't think you should buy any DLC until a game comes out and you've played it, and would be hard pressed to even come up with a game that you should buy at launch honestly.
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Yes I agree it would be better, but it would make no sense for the publisher to do that, as they would make less money. They wouldn't get any good press for holding off, though they would get bad press for making day one dlc, but it wouldn't be enough to outdo the money they would make.
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I think it's a wash. If you have early DLC you might bilk pre-orderers but you won't sell any after that if its no good. Even if it is good, if you release your extra content too quickly then interest in the game will drop off faster. On the other hand if you hold off on releasing DLC and people like the game then it will keep people interested as they wait for DLC. Obviously you can hold on to it too long and people will have moved on already but I really think the optimal for a company is to hold off just a little. This would also build good will towards your company and make it more likely that people buy from you in the future and recommend you because they trust you.
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There has been a time, when a game was finished? No, for sure there's no such thing. The development is never finished, only abandoned. :D
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Oh i remember this ''pc gaming is dying'' already from 10-15 years back... Yes i am old. About those DLC-s: just buy and play good games, dont waste time and money on shit. If the game is really good, then problally the DLC is also good and if the DLC is only cosmetic, then there is no need for that. Long story short, noone is forcing anyone to buy some worthless junk actually.
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+1, "More harm has been done by people panicked over societal decline than societal decline ever did."
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Isn't it great? Always saying "insert platform" is dying. PC gaming is dying was back then now it's Consoles are dying. Whats the point of people saying that? Neither are dying anytime soon, maybe changing yes.
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How i know if a game or dlc is good so to buy and enjoy... reviews? tell me a game in metacritic with accurate score from reviewers.
Steam, the most reviews have nothing to do with the game.
example: started the game, ended playing 10 hours.
2,602 of 2493, people (94%) found this review helpful.
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Just watch some gameplay.
I've never really understood reading reviews or even listening much to what reviewers say, outside of objective stuff like issues with a port or poor optimization, but within 5 min of watching gameplay I can tell if I'll enjoy it.
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Agree, this is the only way to get the handle of a game nowdays, but still cant get a worthwhile opinion from gameplay perspective. Back in the days every game had something special(no need for reviews or videos). Playing the first gta back in 1998 was so much fun just roaming around.
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Really? I feel like I know what I like well enough to know if I'm interested in a few seconds and if I'm going to enjoy it with a few minutes. Like I said before, objective things like bugs and bad ports can be found by any reviewer amd that info is readily available soon after launch.
Basically you're complaining that you have too much choice? There were a lot of terrible games "back in the day" too, you just remember the stuff you liked. That's nostalgia.
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Yes because the people, friends and the community served me the good stuff and not the junk the steam has lately.
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"The main thing that got me to write this thread is Payday 2. Great game and all but 5 bucks for some weapon modifications?! And 5 bucks EACH for new missions?! I know nothing comes for free in this world but back in my day you bought a game and this was it. No further DLCs or in-game microtransactions. "
I see this flawed argument every time Payday releases new content. If the base game is great and worth the money (as low as $5 on sale) and has plenty of content (especially since they often add free content, including missions) as is, what's the problem with allowing people who enjoy it and want more to pay for more content? You would rather they just shipped the game and then moved on? Alternatively they could release a yearly Payday game that's half finished with minimal content and costs $30+. <No one complains about devs that do that now do they?>
What about the benefits you get even if you don't buy the DLC? I'm not talking the free content from the Payday team specifically, this is more about the support a 2 year old game still receives. With every DLC update they also are fixing bugs and balancing the base game for everyone. This is similar to what we saw with Magika. On an interesting side note, this kind of support and rapid, long term bug fixing is a decent way to passively combat piracy which of course is appealing to any dev.
What's the real root cause of your anger or frustration here. Do you feel left out when you don't feel like you can buy all the content? Jealous of those that can? Is it some sort of compulsion to own all the content or that just irritates you knowing that there is content out there you don't have? There are clearly people out there happily buying it because they wouldn't keep releasing this stuff at the price points and frequency that they do if there weren't. Why do you feel like they shouldn't get that just because you don't want it? I know this is a little trite but, why can't you just ignore it if it doesn't interest you?
Is it just me or has the last few years seen a massive rise in people trying to shut down things they don't like that don't have any real impact on them. Can't we just let people enjoy what they enjoy and move on? What happened to our ability to just ignore stuff? (Yes, yes, I know that you could try and apply that to me responding to you here but we all know that's a bit of a strawman since you initiated a discussion.)
P.S. I know you're aware of this but that poll is as biased as a Frenchman at a wine tasting competition.
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Okay, considering it would be on sale right now. 5$ for the game. Several weapons, missions, characters etc. 5$ for a DLC. Weapon modifications and cross hairs. Mh, that's a bit unbalanced.
I posted a reply to most comments here seperately
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The DLC does go on sale too but even if you buy the DLC full price you could buy 5 DLC packs plus the game on sale for the price of the full game at release. Sounds like there is nothing to complain about. 5 DLC should get you most of the good ones (missions, full weapons packs) and it's like you bought all the content for a full price game.
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Yes, they go on sale as well but still... Even if you add all the content from 5 DLCs you don't get the content from a full game.
It's not about being cheap, it's just the change in the gaming industry in general.
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The base game absolutely has $30 worth of content and buying on sale with DLC is even greater value for money. Unless maybe you're someone who only measures value in total play hours available. Do you think any base game that has DLC is incomplete?
Setting this aside though, everything changes. Just like you learned to use digital only media, and multiplayer, and on and on, the sooner you adapt and learn the ins and outs of the new system the better off you'll be. Sure there are some bad apples out there but there always has been and there always will be. I quoted this elsewhere but it applies here again:
"More harm has been done by people panicked over societal decline than societal decline ever did."
It's just as true when talking about gaming society and culture.
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I don't think its unfair. The reason they put the base game for sale is so that new players might be interested in buying the DLC at full/somewhat discounted price. I agree payday has a lot of DLC and its getting silly. But I think the price is always justified for them.
Edit : I was looking at a old version of this page and did not see the above reply. I think he has the same view as mine.
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There is plenty of DLC that vexes me. But I'm actually fine with Payday 2 even though some people reckon it is one of the worst offenders.
I got Payday 2 cheap in a sale (to be honest a trader asked me to open a 4 pack) and all the DLC I own was bought at least 75% off. And Payday 2 and DLC has lots of big sales. I'd much rather have an active community and regular new content than an expensive game to play once and then it's done. For all the people moaning about paying 5 bucks every other week for new DLC it's a great game even if you don't do that and there isn't any reason to do that if you don't want to. Some DLC I don't reckon is good value and I do just fine without.
Games with DLC on release that are actually locked parts of the main game suck. Plenty of other DLC sucks. I'm OK with the Payday 2 price structure. Payday 2 and it's DLC is in-your-face and in the frontline of the battle but I think it is a distraction from the real issues.
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I really like Payday 2, it's a great game and all... but they realease a new DLC every week!!!
You can't keep paying for all those DLCs, it's so abusive how they just want to take our money...
CS:GO skins costing more than 100$ ?? Why guys??
But if someone wants to expend money on it, there will be someone who wants to get money from it.
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A company wants you to buy their product? <shocked face>
How is that abusive? There is no reason that you need to buy any of the DLC. They usually do a good job of telling you what exactly you get and none of it is required.
If you have compulsion to buy this stuff then that's on you.
"But if someone wants to expend money on it, there will be someone who wants to get money from it."
That's a good thing and the more people that provide the same service the better it is for the consumer.
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Payday 2 and Overkill are the examples presented so they are the examples discussed. The point is that DLC is in fact not killing the industry and there were just as many bad apples before DLC was a thing as there are now.
The thing about price structures is that they either work and don't change (like Payday.) or they move to something that does pretty quick (like elder scrolls online). If the DLC wasn't selling well then they would not be sticking with it. It doesn't matter how much you like or dislike Overkill/Payday, it's just economics.
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Day 1 DLC from a company will lose me as a customer for life, generally speaking.
Pay2Win is a horrible idea to me, but if you can get people to pay for your free game more power to you. We are all just making a living after all.
I would much rather see everyone on the same gaming level, let skill dictate who goes further not your wallet, and see purchaes and microtransations be done purely on cosmetic items. I hate to say it but look at WoW, they've kinda done the pricing right. Nothing that will affect your gameplay or endgame, but just stuff to make you look cooler and stroke your epeen a little.
I see absolutely nothing wrong with the Steam Market, in fact selling some TF2 drops that I never would have used or cared for, has gotten me some games at release I would have to wait otherwise for.
I personally think the bigger problem is in Early Access releases. I never remember having to pay to join an Alpha or Beta testing phase of a game before...and now most of these Early Access games don't even make it to a final published released. I wish I could go in to work, charge someone $25 and give them a raw piece of beef on a plate, then tell them we are working on developing the seasoning and sauce to feature this amazing protein in. Please be patient and we hope to have it completed in just a short while, and then let it sit on the shelf for 2 years slowly adding one grain of salt and pepper a time to it until I decided that people no longer want steak, they need chicken!
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The most early access games will never released in my opinion, its a new thing to make money fast then go vacations forever, if money is a problem in the future just rebrand the same game for early access again.
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To be fair, in TF2 and Dota 2 everything you buy is cosmetic and doesn't have any impact on the game. I believe the same is true for CSGO as well but I've not played it.
While the never-ending DLC in Payday 2 is annoying at times, it is worth mentioning that you don't have to buy the missiosn to play them. You can join anyone hosting that mission for free, and if a friend owns the DLC then you can play the missions as much as you want as long as they host. The only thing not shared are the weapon packs and upgrades.
Given TF2 and Dota 2 are FTP I don't have a problem with cosmetic sales, more power to 'em for making a great game completely free with frequent in-game events that give out even more stuff which I can then turn into steam funds, keep, or trade for something else that I really wanted. I don't see a problem with it.
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DLC's are oftten discounted and no one forces you to buy them anyway.
I don't mind DLC's as the only ones I really buy are single player campaigns which are well worth the discounted price. They're like add-ons back in the day.
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I don't get it.
Sell the game with only main quest as base game, and sell it cheap. Than add some day one dlc, like an options menu dlc, 1080p and hi res textures dlc, controller support dlc, sidequests dlc, different weapons dlc, more than one item inventory dlc... Great shit.
Who cares if your game is expensive to make? who would buy toilet paper made of gold?
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Im glad to pay $90 for an mmo, even if its bad after the first month of my journey but for a console port never.
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And you know what else? Video games' prices haven't changed in 20 years. Back then, new releases could cost $50 to $60, just as they do today. They haven't adapted to inflation.
Which means that nowadays, they're more expensive to make, and they give less money in return. Triple A companies need to sell huge amounts of copies to get their money back, and if they don't they have to bust DLC, fund projects with pre-order money or get external investors to stay afloat.
Or be an indie studio with almost no bucket, hoping for a big break.
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They've definitely changed the business model over the years, and while this was obviously made as a joke, there's quite a lot of truth in it for some games.
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Very true.
I noticed some companies, do in fact, remove finished content before launch, knowing they plan on reselling it as dlc.
(prime example: day one dlc ... ON DISK! aka it was done before the game cd/dvd was even made! proof)
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I remember when I got the original Sims. Then look what happened...
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TL;DR Version: DLCs suck. And the poll is a joke, deal with it.
I am a bit upset right now and thought about doing a thread about a topic that has been talked about a lot already, but I don't think it should drift into oblivion since it hasn't changed.
I used to be a full-time gamer. I grew up with games and played a lot until I kinda lost interest 3-4 years ago.
Now I am back into the biz after I bought this PC (two months ago) and realized what a f*cked up thing gaming became.
Every major title releases DLCs and Pay2Win Content, some games even divide the complete storyline into seperate buyable episodes.
Weapon Skins for CS:GO and Items in TF2 get sold for hundreds of dollars.
People spend shitloads of money on trading cards, just for the virtual dick-measuring contest.
I know that there are a lot of people that are old enough to know that things used to be better, but they still encourage developers to go on with that strategy by buying that stuff. In the time I haven't touched my console and didn't actively played videogames I thought that this was a mobile apps thing only, where you could buy in-game currencies for hundreds of dollars on Candy Crush or whatever kids play these days.
The main thing that got me to write this thread is Payday 2. Great game and all but 5 bucks for some weapon modifications?! And 5 bucks EACH for new missions?! I know nothing comes for free in this world but back in my day you bought a game and this was it. No further DLCs or in-game microtransactions. And IF there was more after the release there were things called Add-Ons, that had multiple hours of additional gameplay.
Gnaaaaaaaaaaaa, this so messed up.
Sry for my bad english. Potatoe.
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