Sadly i've tried Proxying and VPN, didn't work although for other people who did the same as me it did..... i'm extremely unlucky i recon
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Could you ask steam to transfer the funds to a friend? And they gift you?
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This "Tim" guy was extremely unfriendly he actually could've mentioned that...so much for a "support"
Cheers Rose, will wait for another response for that ticket then open a new one with transferring funds request. i really wanted to use the Steam market though...oh well my fault to be born here
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It's not acceptable customer support at all. I hope you get a decent response soon!
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http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/
Funds added to the Steam Wallet are non-refundable and non-transferable.
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And in the end there's another sentence:
You agree not to export the Content and Services or allow use of your Account by individuals of any terrorist supporting countries to which encryption exports are at the time of exportation restricted by the U.S. Bureau of Export Administration.
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"Terrorist" is just the greatest euphemism of all time. Credit where it's due...
Whoever coined the phrase should be given a front-row seat and all-you-can-eat popcorn in the afterlife.
Any credible "war on terror" would surely involve criminalising cheese consumption within 5 hours of the bedtime and tearing out Justin Bieber's vocal cords with a clawhammer. Why do politicians and their media mouthpieces always miss the point so spectacularly?
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And where does it say, that you are not allowed to use your own money on steam either?
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Since I live in Brazil and all games I buy are region locked, I'm unable to offer you any help. But I do hope you find someone to buy and gift you the games you want.
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Change your adress to another location other than your country.
I used to live in China and when I came back to Turkey my steam and my dad's account where shoving different sales.
After I changed my adress to Turkey I managed to buy region locked stuff.
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VPN's are against Steam ToS. They will shutdown the persons account if they are caught with it.
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What really sucks is that $50 is worth tens of thousands in here, so it's like months of savings because all of the war and stupid economy
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Almost nothing i wanted is still on sale now so idk, thanx for the offer though i wasn't asking for free games (although this is the website to do so haha :D )
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He couldn't get it where he was at, I think he said he got it through a friend, if that isn't an indicator that maybe things won't work out, I don't know what is... :/
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Is there nothing at all you can with that money? Can't buy from the market either?
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It'll take a full month to do so, interesting idea but i guess i'm missing the sales anyway then :|
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If you can buy from the market you could try buying keys and trading them for the games you wanted, though that will be more expensive
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Keys will still be locked to your account for a week. Keytrading IS slightly cheaper, but usually not much of a difference from stockprices.
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I don't know if this helps and it might not...but I read that Steam is supposed to have an encore sale in July (so the games should go on sale again). So hopefully your issue will have been resolved by then?
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Yeah, if I'm not mistaken I had to wait for about 30 days after I charged my Steam Wallet for the first time before I was able to buy stuff, too.
Considering the "making purchases is locked in your region" thing, though, I think he might have a bigger problem :/
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Seems like you're in the wrong to me. Just use VPN or something... you might get banned though.
Next time don't try to eschew Steam's regional restrictions. You're effectively trying to buy a movie ticket at the discounted senior's price with a fake ID and complaining when they don't sell you one. BUT I ALREADY PAID FOR THE ID?!
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Uh... what? The issue is that using the website or steam client to make purchases isn't available in his area, that's the issue.
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No, the issue comes from the fact that he is trying to get around the the inability to make purchases from his area. From what I can gather there is no Steam sale in his region.
It sucks that you don't have access to the sale, it sucks even more that Steam started region locking and that sweet Russian honeypot was taken from us all. Just because other regions get better prices doesn't mean you're entitled to better prices. I really hate the E word, but this seems like one of those times.
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For me it actually sounds that he can view the sale, see what is discounted etc but his region is not allowed to buy something in the actual sale. So steam has locked his region from using money through steam wallet/any other means to purchase items AT ALL.
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This does not mean they have to give this kind of standart awnser.
They dont even explain well.
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No, the issue is that some regions are restricted and his just so happens to be. It means he can't make purchases period.
So, yeah, basically what I just said.
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Hmm, you don't seem to get the story right... there simply AREN'T steam wallets in here. I bought $50 from another region with normal prices (not like brazil or russia) so i can buy from the sales and gain access to the community market
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Yes, but as bad as it sounds, Steam don't offer their service to Syria, likely as a result of sanctions on IT software or something (idk).
You told them in the first paragraph of your support ticket that you're from a banned country (BZZT) and you tried to circumvent such a ban (BZZT) by using details of another person's account (BZZT BZZT BZZT), which basically meant they cannot support you.
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then why the fuck do they allow that he uses the wallet card on this account and loses 50$? if they do not allow purchases in his region, they better make sure that there is no way to even transfer money to his steam account, which then becomes totally useless.
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I'm not saying what's happened is right, more pointing out where the OP basically admitted to Steam Support that he has broken 3 cardinal rules of the system.
If he'd been more economical with the truth up front, something might have been done, although granted if Support said 'so why is your IP from Syria' then it would have also broken down.
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He was allowed to use the card because he faked his info and the card was not from a banned region. It's his own fault, he knew the limitations were there before he even got the card.
The problem is that Valve is not allowed to sell anything to someone in Syria, for any reason. If they did, they would be violating sanctions... The fines can easilly go into the million dollar range if they violated the sanctions and sell to the OP.
The OP tried to get around legally obligated limitations, faked his identity for that purpose and then complains when he gets caught halfway through.
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He circumvented steams restrictions. Normally steam would block him from paying for that but he tried to go around that by putting his friends address. It's like say, he is not allowed to use items from a certain vendor. Steam tried it's best to make sure he cannot purchase items from that vendor since he cannot use whatever he wants to purchase. But he circumvented that by asking his friend to purchase the items for him. Even if he got the items and paid the money, doesn't change the fact that he still cannot use those items. So you shouldn't be blaming valve for it.
@OP- Restrictions suck, I can relate and I can understand why you did what you did. This was bad support from valve, they could have handled it better, but steam is not known for their world class support. Maybe close this ticket and open another. Another person might be able to handle it better than this guy.
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From what I'm aware wallet funds are region locked just like any game, you would have to use a Saudi VPN to utilize them, then you would need to continue using that VPN whenever you wanted to play those specific games.
A better workaround for your case would've been to send you're friend the money, have them add it to their wallet, then have them buy a cheap item from the market that you listed for $50. You would lose a little to Gaben's lunch fund, but it's better than not being able to use any of it or risk a VPN ban.
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Valve isn't allowed to sell games to Syria because of the sanctions. No matter how he would have proceeded, he still would be unable to purchase any game.
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steam wallet funds don't have a currency/region till you add them to your account. if i add it i'll get 50dollars, russians get rubbles = to $50, and so on. it should give you your local currency equivalent to the card, in this case 50$. are they saying you don't have a currency there?
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I'd like to know how this ends...
there's always that less pleasant solution of... torrents. In your situation I'd argue it's more than fair to just download for the lost value. Still not the same, as you dont get achievements, multiplayer, some mods... better than nothing though
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Developers of the games are not to blame that Valve doesn't allow him to use his Steam wallet money and yet you say that pirating games and therefore denying developers their profit for their hard work is only fair and justified? It's like stealing from their pocket which is in a way similar to what happened to him in the first place now that he can't use his Steam wallet funds, so how does that even make sense as a proper solution? I do understand his situation and I feel sorry for him as this is something unfortunate and actually feels like being robbed - while you can see the funds being there in your wallet, you actually can't use them, but stealing from someone else in order to compensate that loss is not exactly morally acceptable. He wanted to go the legal way, proper way, so let's keep on encouraging him to try to achieve his goal that way.
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I'm a dev and I'm 100% with pirating the games in that context. No one should be prohibited of enjoying something that takes your mind off such tragic events.
GabeN said a couple times "gamers pirate things because the service is bad (DRM restrictions, annoyances, GFLW, etc.). If we make (with Steam) an easy enough service, then they will buy the games".
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LOL yeah, those bastard developers, how dare they not let us enjoy their work for free, against their wishes and legal rights. What a crime against humanity. Screw fighting ISIS, we should really be sending drones against video game developers for not letting us steal their stuff.
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No need to get angry about it. We're talking about someone who tried to pay for stuff but didn't get anything. It's like going to McDonalds, paying all of your savings for your meal, and after paying you hear this: "I'm not going to give you your meal because other people in your country are doing things they're not supposed to do.".
That doesn't seem fair at all. He has the right to play games, like we all do.
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It's like a 7 year old going to a bar and asking for a bottle of scotch. And when the bartender refuses because they are by law not allowed to serve minors, the 7 year old puts on a fake moustache and pretends to be a 50 year old, throws all his money at the bartender yelling "Take It! Take It!". Then he complains because the bar took his money and threw him out.
"He has the right to play games, like we all do."
Two counters: 1. I must have missed that part of the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Which article is it in?
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First off, the bartender in your example is in no position to take the money before denying him a drink (he should just give it back and kick him out).
Secondly, I don't mean basic human rights in the literal sense. But why is someone who happens to live in a country at war less worthy of playing the games he looks forward to?
Why did you buy all those (over a thousand) games if free games are just as fun to you? Because sometimes you want to play what people all around you (on the internet) are constantly talking about in a positive way.
Assume all of your online friends told you: "Just Cause 2 is amazing! You should play it!". You buy a Steam card to effectively play the recommended game you wanted to play for so long. And then after you've basically paid (not the dev, I know, but that's what they're denying him), they say you won't get anything for the money you just spent. You won't tell me you'll be like "oh, okay, still got Tux Racing though! c:".
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"First off, the bartender in your example is in no position to take the money before denying him a drink"
Bartender didn't have a choice, the kid was all too happy to get rid of the money any way he could.
"But why is someone who happens to live in a country at war less worthy of playing the games he looks forward to?"
Strawman. He's not less worthy. But he's not entitled to it either. In the same way starving children in Ethiopia aren't entitled to a Ferrari, even though rich white Americans can have one. Sucks doesn't it, but that's the way the world works. Unless you want to live under a pure communist rule, which has never been fulfilled and tends not to work out too well anyway.
"Why did you buy all those (over a thousand) games if free games are just as fun to you?"
Because I could, I wanted to, and I am able. People who can't afford them, or live in countries where they aren't sold, can't. Besides I never said free games are just as fun (maybe they are, maybe not, it's subjective anyway). I'm saying, live within your means. If you can't afford to buy video games, free ones will have to suffice. If certain games or distribution platforms aren't available in your country, try alternatives that are. I know that "living within your means" and "doing without" are concepts that people from the entitled "Me Generation" (or sociopaths) can't grasp though.
"You buy a Steam card "
I wouldn't. Because (in your hypothetical) in my country I'm not able to. I'm not about to commit credit card fraud to buy store credit, only to find out I couldn't spend it anyway because the store doesn't exist in my country. That sounds like a stupid thing to do.
But here's a real example. I like Game of Thrones. My real-life friends and colleagues talk about it all the time, about the latest episodes and what-not. Season 5 I think. Too bad I don't have Pay TV which is required to watch it. Season 5 isn't out on DVD/Blu Ray yet so I can't buy it. I could be a filthy pirate and just download it and watch it. You know what I did? Fuck all, that's what. I haven't seen any season 5 episodes yet. Hell, I haven't even seen season 4, because I'm waiting for it to come down in price.
Guess what, I didn't spontaneously combust or anything. I just go and watch something else, or play my growing shameful backlog of games. And I talk about other stuff with my friends and colleagues, even introduce them to different TV shows or games, so it's not even like you have to miss out on social interaction. I'm not sure where this idea comes from that everyone in the world is entitled to have anything they want even at the expense of others. You're a pirate (or a sympathiser, same diff) maybe you could tell me. Is it simply because kids these days have reached a point where they're too spoiled they just expect everything to be handed to them? Is it that the internet allows people to see how good everyone else has it and want in on the action? A kind of 'keeping up with the Jones'" thing? Or are we as a society just slowly losing our morality and empathy? What the fuck is it?
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"Kids these days" xD are you seriously going there? xD I think I'm done here... Saying we are losing our empathy while constantly hammering on someone who spent money to get nothing in return. If I was expecting to get stuff handed to me or if I thought that was something I could expect I wouldn't have bought a few hundreds of games, now would I? Neither would OP have bought a Steam Card in the first place if he had such a mentality.
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Except I never hammered the OP and I never said he was a pirate. And no, the fact the OP spent money doesn't make him not entitled or stupid, he still clearly felt he was entitled to use the Steam store despite it not being available in his country. Which sucks, sure, but that's reality and politics, but calling it an injustice demonstrates his overreaction.
He doesn't 'deserve' to have the access to Steam, or to play the games within, that you seem to think he does. So I ask again, why do you think he does? What law, decree, treaty or social contract guarantees a person can have anything they desire?
Oh wait...
"I think I'm done here"
Ok, bye. I'll just wait here for someone who can answer it. I won't hold my breath.
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No, just stating that both positions are arguable and neither of them are 100% right, but in his context, playing games is way more valuable to him than it's to me (due to the war context), therefore I think it's fair to go ahead an enjoy, then he can repay some other time. He actually already tried to do that.
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Rape is awesome. If you live in a warzone you should definitely do it, it will make you feel better and help you forget about how messed up your country is. It's perfectly ok, because you're not physically taking anything away from somebody else. And maybe you can throw her some money later on, if you're feeling generous. That will make it all better. But don't you dare disagree with me, then you'd committing the mortal sin of "trying to start a random debate", and that's just not acceptable.
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But we aren't talking about video games, we're talking about pirating video games. No, that's not acceptable in any civilised society. The fact that lots of entitled little shits do it doesn't make it any more acceptable than the fact rapes happen all the time and some cultures even condone it.
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He can do whatever he wants to. If there are consequences, then that's his problem. You can not change what he does.
On another note......
Are you comparing PIRATING to RAPE? Those are two majorly different offenses mate.
Why don't you just compare terrorism to fucking game hacking while you're at it.
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You're right, he can. That doesn't mean you should condone it. I'm sorry that you live in a world where you can't stop crime 100%, so you feel your only alternative is to encourage it and participate.
Yes, I'm comparing piracy to rape. Do you not know what an analogy is? Let me explain it for you. By substituting the subject of the discussion, we can make it easier to point out the logical flaws in the argument. So when you argue that it's ok to pirate because X Y Z, I substitute "piracy" for "rape" applying the exact same logic to illustrate the absurdity of your arguments. It's useful for breaking through the pre-determined prejudices of the topic and reaching the crux of the argument, the utilitarian precedent that it sets. The precedent being set of course is that crimes can be excused if the perpetrator has faced undue hardship. So we substitute one crime for another to illustrate why it's a bad argument.*
In many cases even leads the participant to argue against their own points, or confront the ridiculousness of their fallacy. Of course at this point cognitive dissonance usually kicks in, often taking the form of moving goalposts, but sometimes also various logical fallacies, reductio ad absurdum, ad hominem (like yourself, attacking the person not the argument), distraction, obtuseness and deliberate ignorance (eg. pretending not to know what an analogy is).
You seem like a 'moving goalposts' kind of person. I suspect your next post will point out a difference between piracy and rape that introduces a completely different argument not presented thus far. Here, let me help you out:
-Rape is sexual in nature, piracy is about non-sexual gratification
-Rape is a physical crime, piracy is psychological (bzzzt, rape is often treated as a psychological trauma)
-Rape falls under criminal law and UN UDHR, piracy under civil law and international treaty
Go on, see how many differences you can find between piracy and rape that have absolutely no connection to the argument presented.
*Interestingly both rape and piracy share more points of comparison, in that both are immoral and illegal, both have entire cultures accepting them, and both involve one party violating the rights of another party purely for the entertainment of the former, even when ethical alternatives are available. But those are merely coincidental and irrelevant within the context of the debate.
"Why don't you just compare terrorism to fucking game hacking while you're at it."
OK. Under which context? What's your argument that approves of game hacking? And if terrorism is a valid comparison within the context of your argument, I'll substitute it in and let you fight against your own logical premise. Careful, I'm starting to think you weren't pretending and maybe you really don't know what analogy is.
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"I'm sorry that you live in a world where you can't stop crime 100%, so you feel your only alternative is to encourage it and participate."
Oh. Encourage and participate? I don't believe I've encouraged anyone, nor participated in any form other than pointing out-ON THIS COMMENT- that you seemed to be trying to get a debate out of a simple comment.
May I ask where the ad-hominem attack was?
I was commenting on how your argument seemed to have been made in order to provoke a further debate. There was nothing ad-hominem about the debate.
Oh, and by the way, I would recommend substituting different crimes next time. Such as comparing it to stealing.
mini-mini side-note Which culture accepts rape?
I do not believe the creator would be harmed psychologically, especially since most who pirate games do not get found out. The creator can't really be harmed by what they may not know about.
"You seem like a 'moving goalposts' kind of person. I suspect your next post will point out a difference between piracy and rape that introduces a completely different argument not presented thus far. Here, let me help you out:
-Rape is sexual in nature, piracy is about non-sexual gratification
-Rape is a physical crime, piracy is psychological (bzzzt, rape is often treated as a psychological trauma)
-Rape falls under criminal law and UN UDHR, piracy under civil law and international treaty
Go on, see how many differences you can find between piracy and rape that have absolutely no connection to the argument presented."
No thank you, I am not going to waste additional time on an argument which I do not care much for.
Sidenotes
You're assuming the creator would not allow him to find another way to enjoy the game. I am sure there are creators/designers that would allow him to play their games and or not care if he pirated it.
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you didn't even need to explain anything, he just compared pirating and rape lmao i would have stopped there, pretty cringe
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Lol okay, I guess you can automatically decide I don't know what an analogy is to make yourself feel better, doesn't make it any less cringe
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You do realise that an analogy compares two subjects to illustrate a certain point within a specific context, right? And you would also know that using an analogy doesn't mean the two subjects are comparable in every single way, especially when considering factors beyond the context? Different things are different, who would have guessed?!
Like if you said kittens are fluffy, and kittens make good pets, therefore all fluffy things make good pets, but I pointed out wolverines are fluffy too but they will probably kill you. Would you say, "But wolverines are bigger than kittens! They have sharper claws! They only live in the cold northern regions! So you're wrong, fluffy animals still make good pets!" Well, all of those pointsabout wolverines are true, but they are irrelevant when the context of the disucssion is only about fluffy things making good pets.
If you took my usage of a rape analogy to mean that I think piracy and rape are equal crimes, have an equal impact on the victim, are mechanically performed similarly, or should be punished equally by law, etc etc; then yes, you've clearly demonstrated you don't know what analogy is. Does it make me feel better that the state of education in your country, wherever that is, is so poor that such simple concepts evade you? No, not really.
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lmao I'm not reading all your paragraphs, keep trying to make yourself feel good though. i like how you can tell exactly what i mean from a simple sentence just stating how delusional and cringe you are. that's what i'm conveying. i've not demonstrated anything, i didn't take your analogies as anything nor did i respond to them in any specific way. how can you decide anything from my one sentence? you can try to justify what you say to me all you want you're still a joke lool put words in my mouth all day, son.
"If you took my usage of a rape analogy to mean"
key word: if
you have no fucking clue yourself. just enraged because i insulted you kek. this isn't your middle school debate team. the pseudo intelligence is real, should have been able to tell by the sonic avatar. you're so enlightened and self aware, what a guy. "ur so uneducated xdddd" please stop
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So basically, you're an idiot, you don't know what an analogy is, you have no debating skills, you're illiterate, and you're trolling. And now you're upset because your troll failed. Oh, and you're also delusional. Ok, got it. Some advice? Don't spend so much effort trying to play the fool, you have plenty of natural talent.
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LOL, dude, stop. you're just making this worse for yourself every single time. i can type however the fuck i want to on the internet, i have nothing to prove to your butt hurt ass. i'm not writing an essay for you, there was no debating to begin with? i don't know how many times i have to tell you, there was no real debate in the first place. you can keep telling yourself you've "won" and giggle to yourself in your dark room alone with your cheeto dust infested keyboard surrounded by your rouge fan art but you're still absolutely worthless. nah, no faulty advice from a sonic tard. fuck right off, bud. your analogies are cringey, you think you're the middle school debate champion, you head straight for grammar insults, it just keeps getting better. just because you get called out on your idiocy now I'm a "troll" now lolol. I've never seen anyone as riled up and genuinely maad af. don't bother responding, not wasting my time lol. don't bother responding, not wasting my time kek
"just stating how delusional"
"Oh, and you're also delusional"
hilarious and original
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"I don't believe I've encouraged anyone"
So you don't encourage piracy? Then why are you arguing me?
"May I ask where the ad-hominem attack was?
I was commenting on how your argument seemed to have been made in order to provoke a further debate."
That's the ad hominem. You were basically calling me a troll rather than addressing the points raised. No, I'm not trying to debate anyone. I would be more than happy if pirates just pissed right off the internet and never came back. Pirates are like vegans and pot smokers. How can you tell if someone's a pirate? Don't worry, they'll tell you. It's like a badge of honour for them. I'm not even sure why people who approve of piracy would bother coming to a giveaways site. Why waste their time gambling on a 1 in thousands chance to win a game legitimately when they have no qualms simply downloading it for free. It makes no sense, like piracy itself.
"Oh, and by the way, I would recommend substituting different crimes next time. Such as comparing it to stealing."
Why? What difference does it make? So then you can claim like every single other idiot pirate, oh, piracy isn't stealing because nothing's physically taken? Even though that would be changing the argument made, hence the moving goalposts? Why would I make it easier for you to avoid justifying your position? I could have used any crime, that's the whole point. Rape is easier because no sane individual could justify it, making it easier to reach the logic proposition in the argument. I explained this already.
"Which culture accepts rape?"
Rape culture. One could point out specific regions like India, South Africa, Middle East, etc but rape culture is simpler.
"No thank you, I am not going to waste additional time on an argument which I do not care much for."
Then we're in furious agreement. Piracy is stupid and unethical, and there is no reason to support it, case closed.
"You're assuming the creator would not allow him to find another way to enjoy the game. I am sure there are creators/designers that would allow him to play their games and or not care if he pirated it."
I'm sure there are, I never said there wasn't. But the whole point of piracy, one of the major reasons why it's unethical, is that it takes that choice away from the rights holder. Choices that are guaranteed under social contract and law. Pirates assert they have the right to do what they want with another person's work. It's like, if you decided to donate $100 to charity every year, but one year a guy from the Red Cross comes into your house and takes $100 from your wallet. What if he made the argument that the Red Cross helps people who really, really, truly need the help, and he's only doing what's best for them. Then he claims that really, it's your fault he took your money, because you he disagrees ideologically with you putting locks on your house. Or maybe your wallet is the wrong colour. Maybe he takes $200, because he feels $100 simply isn't enough. Would that be ok? You were going to donate to charity anyway? No, of course not. It's a violation of your rights. You've physically lost nothing, but your right to choose when, how, to whom, and under what conditions you will donate has been taken away from you.
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What I mean is, you seem to me like the kind of person who would resort to moving the goalposts. Which means, I could possibly win the argument (metaphorically 'kick a goal') by successfully disproving the idea that it's acceptable to commit crimes of luxury if the perpetrator gets enjoyment out of it; and by some aribitrary and undefined standard they are deemed to be deserving of it. Like say if they live in a warzone or, I don't know, stubbed their toe one time.
But that would be futile and a waste of everyone's time if the argument were shifted to something else (the "goalposts" were moved), eg. the idea that piracy is not really a crime or shouldn't be enforced. Because that's a whole different argument, and it's disingenuous to make the original statement when really it was never about condoning crime or showing sympathy for war survivors, that was just a red herring and it was always about the legitimacy of piracy as a crime or as an immoral act. And usually it doesn't stop there, it just keeps on going in circles. That's what I mean when I say I'm getting to the real point being argued.
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The argument really should be if the game dev is okay with him pirating his game then why doesn't he just give him a copy or make it shareware/freeware for everybody. Comparing rape to piracy is a false equivalence because one has a potential effect while the other actually does affect somebody. If you want to go to those extremes a more proper analogy would be piracy vs necrophilia, neither victim is really aware of the crime. The laws should still be enforced but it's more a moral and ethical debate because it compels people to do the right thing. The argument is similar to what publishers complain about regarding libraries. You can read the book for free and the publisher never gets a royalty besides the original purchase. You can even copy the entire book at home. The people who end up buying a book for themselves end up paying a premium to offset that loss. If nobody ever buys the book the publisher risks going out of business which in the end affects the consumer as well.
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"The argument really should be if the game dev is okay with him pirating his game then why doesn't he just give him a copy or make it shareware/freeware for everybody. "
Well that's a good point, and we could easily assume that since the dev didn't give the game away, he's not ok with it, and we'd be done with it. Problem is nobody is actually arguing against that.
"Comparing rape to piracy is a false equivalence because one has a potential effect while the other actually does affect somebody."
There are multiple issues here.
1: There is no false equivalence because the criteria on which you compare rape and piracy are not within the context of the argument presented. As in the example I provided elsewhere, fluffy kittens make good pets therefore all fluffy animals make good pets. But wolverines are fluffy and don't make good pets so they're wrong. The many differences in physiology, habitat, genus or anything else between kittens and wolverines is irrelevant because that was not the context of the statement presented. Likewise, nobody said it's ok for people who've experienced hardship to pirate because piracy only has the potential for harm. The two concepts aren't even logically related, if piracy is only "potentially" harmless why would the socio-economic situation of the pirate factor into it? But if you can quote where that argument was presented by yourself or anyone else in this thread, I'll be happy to concede this point.
2: You assert piracy is only potentially harmless, despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Piracy influences everything from the way source code is stored, platforms a game is released for, availability of releases, regional pricing, implementation of DRM, the proliferation of "freemium", micro-transactions, subscription-based services and DLC, budgets and funding, the closing of studios, the list goes on. So to say piracy's influence is only "potential" and that the victim may not even be aware of the crime is more than a stretch, it flat out flies in the face of evidence and logic. Even small time indie studios find mountains of evidence of their games being pirated.
3: If the victim is asleep, unconscious, under the influence of alcohol or drugs, is mentally incapable of understanding or being aware of the crime (whether by age or disability), experiences long term or short term amnesia, represses memories of the event etc... it's still rape and is not treated with any less disdain. The victim being unaware of the crime doesn't make it not a crime.
4: Even if we ignore all of the above, you're forgetting that more often than not pirates can't simply steal shit and be done with it; they're proud of it, shout it from the rooftops, defend it and actively encourage others to do it. Not only are they unashamed of it but they laugh in the face of developers and rights holders. You call this only "potential" effect?
5: The impact is not "potential" because pirating a game IS breaching the dev's rights, not potentially. It IS the pirate gaining benefit without compensation. These things are guaranteed to happen when piracy occurs.
6: When people mention "potential" and piracy they usually talk about piracy being not so bad because it's only a "potential" lost sale. That's a fallacy. Besides the fact that "potential lost sale" is more than good enough to deem the act immoral (eg. stealing milk from a store right before it expires is still stealing, even if the chance of it being sold before it expired was slim to none), the reality is potential lost sales are just the metric used to quantify the damage piracy causes. Actually the moral crime is about two major issues, depriving the rights of the developer (we have copyright for the same ethical reasons we have human rights or Miranda rights), and gaining unfair benefit by deception (for the same ethical reasons fraud and counterfeiting are crimes). On the subject of counterfeiting, the third important but less-addressed issue is that illicit distribution reduces the value of the existing product, even if the product is a fungible commodity that can be duplicated, for all intents and purposes, infinitely (as in the case of currency or digital goods). The rights holder is granted the ability to control scarcity (and more importantly, conditions of sale and remuneration) and thus maintain value, subject of course to market forces like supply and demand - in the same way the state controls currency so the exchange rate doesn't go to shit. Unsurprisingly there are similar consequences if distribution is uncontrolled in either.
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FYI while copy protection schemes were invented to sabotage easy copying and hindering greenhorns to give away copies of games they bought. It never affected piracy as pirates usually were much better organized and skilled. Samewise drm was never introduced to hinder piracy (which still is imposssible as reproduction of digital data is a basic conception of computers themselves) but to lay dry of the used game market. Eg gamestop and the like. Both methods are hurting consumer rights by denying them through technical means. They are targetting the average joe here. So what does that mean for rights of producers? If heavily looks like both parties are misrespecting each other.
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Yep, DRM often (but not always) fails, if not immediately then eventually. And yes it usually sucks for legitimate users, the same way that locks on cars and houses don't work and only inconvenience the legitimate user, even though we all use locks. But that's irrelevant, since my point was simply that it was introduced because, and thus is a casualty, of piracy. The idea that DRM/copy protection were introduced to stop the used game is nothing but a lie perpetuated by pirates, and is demonstrably false given that many DRM schemes - especially early ones - merely enforced legitimate media rather than tying licences to static user accounts preventing resale.
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I'm not justifying piracy just stating it's in a different class to be compared to bodily harm. A corpse is an object with sentimental value usually without rights, a living victim unaware or unable to defend themselves still has rights. All crimes are ethical and moral issues that vary from region to region.
The potential damage of piracy comes from the same assertion book publishers state about libraries and video game companies complaining about used game resellers. There will be some lost revenues but how many companies have folded due to libraries and Blockbuster?
The reason you are seeing a shift in the way things are being marketed isn't really in regards to piracy. They're different marketing strategies to find which actually work. It's in response to how people play video games and listen to music. The mobile age has forced companies to find ways to monetize on the shift to entice more customers and retain them. DRM has been proven useless and only affects legitimate owners. Stealing a physical product does affect a company due to the cost of producing it. Replicating digital goods costs nothing to produce..their value is arbitrary. Companies going out of business or in financial crisis are usually in that position for other reasons and place blame on piracy. Just a couple reports that show piracy isn't as detrimental as the industry claims:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/digital-piracy-not-harming-entertainment-industries-study-1.1894729
http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/06/13/does-online-piracy-help-boost-sales.aspx
Sure some pirates are zealots but most are normal folks that pirate Game of Thrones until it gets released onto DVD. ;) Again I'm not defending piracy. Counterfeiting is an entirely different class of beast. Piracy doesn't affect the value of a product..counterfeiting does. If I steal your game's source code and produce a game with it before you finish then I effectively stole your product not just a copy of it. If I just release the code to the public and nobody uses it except for a bedtime story then that is only a potential loss if they hate your coding style.
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"I'm not justifying piracy"
Good, then there is no argument here.
"just stating it's in a different class to be compared to bodily harm"
Yes, surprisingly, piracy is not rape. Nor is it murder, burglary or arson. There are many differences. All of them are beyond the context of the original argument presented. In other news, apples are not oranges, and kittens are not wolverines.
"Just a couple reports that show piracy isn't as detrimental as the industry claims"
Not the point. Piracy could create rainbows and taste like chocolate for all I care. As I already said, there are at least 3 moral injustices that piracy commits that make it immoral regardless of its commercial impact. That said I still disagree that piracy has a net benefit.
The study referenced in the CBC link does not state that digital entertainment is "in many cases" growing because of piracy. Another way to interpret the study is that sales are growing despite piracy. The one part of the article that does mention piracy boosting sales asserts that pirates spend more on digital media than the average consumer. This is hardly surprising since by and large the average consumer is not a digital native, and may prefer non-digital media purchases. Sales are not compared with non-pirating digital natives, nor are offline sales factored into it. So there is no control group. Even ignoring all that, the fact that pirates often spend more online than the average person does not excuse piracy. You don't get to steal 1 thing just because you bought 10 when other people only bought 5.
Your second link makes the same mistake of noting a rise in online sales and attributing it to piracy. It ignores offline sales and asserts causation from correlation. It makes several other logical and factual errors but to be honest I only skimmed the rest. I'll refer to Betteridge's law of headlines on that one. As a rebuttal, I present:
http://www.macgasm.net/2012/12/04/ios-game-battle-dungeon-forced-to-shut-down-due-to-piracy/
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2009/04/demigod-hit-by-massive-piracy-review-scores-take-beating/
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3030/keeping_the_pirates_at_bay.php
http://www.wired.com/2008/03/thq-blames-pira/
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-06-20-pirates-force-project-zomboid-offline
http://www.technewsworld.com/story/31783.html
"Piracy doesn't affect the value of a product"
It must, otherwise people wouldn't bother to pirate. I'm not even talking about the 2nd hand market here, that clearly experiences decreasing value as does any commodity does when you flood the market with cheaper alternatives. Even the value to the individual is decreased. Here's a game, it costs $50. Is it worth $50 to you? Yes, you buy it. No, you don't. Maybe, you wait until the price goes down (but is still above zero). With piracy, there's another option. Is this game worth $0 to you? Find me someone who will say no. Boom, value has decreased.
" If I steal your game's source code"
Not sure of the comparison you're trying to make with counterfeiting here, if any. If I create counterfeit money but don't put it into circulation it doesn't have the same impact as buying stuff with it. Question: logically, morally, pragmatically, what do you see is the difference between:
-Illegally downloading a game
-Hacking into the Steam database and adding a game to your account without paying for it
-Using counterfeit money to purchase a digital copy of the game
-Hacking into your bank and adding funds to your own account, then using those funds to purchase a digital copy of the game
-Hacking into your bank and adding funds to your own account, then using those funds to purchase a physical retail copy of the game
"normal folks that pirate"
That you see piracy as normal is the problem.
But ok, let's ignore all the evidence for a moment and pretend that piracy was as awesome as pirates claim it is, and had absolutely no negative aspects and was completely moral, but was somehow still a crime. Because, I don't know, video game developers are all stupid don't want all the free publicity and millions of dollars in sales that piracy magically gives. What does any of your argument have to do with whether someone deserves to ignore the law because they live in a shitty country? Like I alluded the other guy Ascheriit, if you're so confident in that belief why do you have to keep changing the argument, ie. moving the goalposts? And if that's not what you believe, why are you wasting my time opposing me? For someone who isn't justifying piracy, you sure spend a lot of time trying to argue how great it is. If it's as awesome as you're arguing, why WOULDN'T you justify it? Are you an immoral person even by your own warped standards and beliefs? Well anyway, that's rhetorical. Instead, how about getting back on point and answering these questions:
-Why do you think a person's geopolitical or socio-economic situation grants them the right to ignore the law (civil or criminal) and/or ethical codes of conduct? Keep in mind this is within the context of non-essential crimes; like, we're not talking about a starving family stealing bread and water here or killing ISIS insurgents attacking their town. These are video games for fuck's sake, and if you're so desperate for some there are plenty of cheaper or free options that ones sold in Syria. I'll assume you've already calculated the utilitarian cost-benefit analysis on this, care to show your workings?
-At what point, how much hardship, does one have to suffer to in order to be entitled to flout the law? It's already been established living in a country under civil war is adequate. What if you live under an oppressive regime or dictatorship? Are North Koreans allowed to pirate? If you're diagnosed with cancer can you start car-jacking people? I stubbed my toe once, surely you can look the other way on a few drunken affrays and conspiracies to murder?
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Analogy: Troll response.
Your example links: Developers shouldn't have to protect their servers from illegitimate users I agree. Not having protection against the abuse is the risk you take with open services. The piracy of the game didn't affect them in those cases it was the abuse of their online service that did. That's considered a theft of service and trespassing depending on the ToS legally.
Value: The value didn't decrease to $0 just because somebody pirated something. If I steal your car, the car is still worth something even though I stole it. If I stole the car from somebody that stole the car from you, it was still worth something even though they paid nothing for it. Piracy arguably reduces demand but not the value. Digital goods are infinite therefore supply and demand is artificially created.
Counterfeiting: You brought up source code under piracy and I was using it as an example of counterfeiting and piracy combined (not really counterfeit in my example though). If you designed expensive purses and I couldn't afford it but copied the design perfectly at home just for myself that technically violated your copyright but it didn't cost you anything. If I sold it that would affect you differently, especially if I violated your trademark by claiming it was you that made it.
Questions:
Digital piracy is a violation of the sharing ethics. I can legally allow everybody in the world to borrow my PlayStation disk. If everybody was patient that company only sold the one copy then. They can go bankrupt due to that but it's legal. The only thing that would make it illegal is if I had my legal backup copy in my possession. That is what makes piracy illegal in most countries...copies. Despite that, even if I had my copy that doesn't mean I was playing it at the time. If pirating games was a one-at-a-time per legal copy situation it would be legal.
Counterfeit money is theft from the government and merchant if it's spent. From the government if it isn't noticed. From the merchant if the bank rejects the deposit which results in loss of goods. From another customer if it's given as change to them.
Hacking Steam is two actions burglary and theft..both illegal. Same with the bank if you spend the hacked funds since the bank ends up paying for the loss. Makes no difference if the game is digital or physical.
I didn't say piracy was normal. I said zealots and normal people that pirate. It's a matter of scale on their actions and beliefs. A Christian zealot is not a normal Christian. That doesn't imply Christianity is normal.
Edit: Problem with taking my sweet time responding is not seeing your flame troll edit. You made opinions and I countered those opinions with data that shows they're not necessarily true. You don't have to take their data as fact for the same reasons I don't have to accept yours. I don't have to believe your reasons why piracy is illegal to believe piracy is illegal. Piracy isn't illegal in some countries, therefore piracy is legal in those countries. If North Korea doesn't prosecute for piracy then take it up with North Korea. Wants and needs are separate things as you have said. Piracy is typically a want, but can fulfill a need such as training. It isn't a justification.
I have been affected by piracy and I understand both sides of the situation. I'm well aware of the risks of the investment in content I create vs the real risk of not profiting from it due to sharing and theft. People share, it's a common trait, so I have to balance with that knowledge without destroying humanity by being too protective and untrusting.
An example: I have a family reunion of a hundred million people at my home. I buy a movie for us to all watch. That is a lot of people that didn't pay to watch a movie. That is considered legal because the property is there. If they're the only people that would have bought the movie but didn't the company goes bankrupt. Sad ending but technically legal only morally wrong if it was intentional. If I pirated or stole the movie then they could sue me for that offense, but not my family or a multiple of the fine based on the amount of people that benefited.
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Analogy/Edit: Ah, yes, "I have no rebuttal so I'll cry troll". Since you failed to address the legitimacy of the analogy, and failed to defend the original statements made about flouting the law if you're deserving enough, I guess that debate is over.
Now, as for this entirely separate debate about the effects of piracy that you've volunteered me into...
Example links/Hacking: Only some of the links reported closures due to overwhelmed online services. And, do you really think pirates have some kind of moral code of conduct? They won't pirate a game if it has an online component? LOL. It was the piracy of the game that made the use of the services illegal, you can't uncouple one from the other and treat them as entirely separate acts. If you stab somebody, and they later die from the wounds, the courts don't try you for assault and ignore the fact he died because of you and that's just too bad. They try you for murder.
Value: Value is what you pay for it. If you paid nothing for it, the value is zero. If lots of people value it as zero, the average value decreases.
Counterfeiting: Think about piracy. Think about every physical and moral action that piracy entails. Now do the same thing with counterfeiting. Notice how everything lines up exactly. Now note that there is physically, morally, no difference between illegally downloading a game and using counterfeit money to legally download a game. The variables are all the same. The end result is the same. There is no difference. Only the law makes a distinction between the two, and pirates don't care about laws anyway.
Piracy normal: You said normal people pirate. That logically implies piracy is normal. People who may otherwise be normal, who are not outragously aggressive in and defensive of stealing digital content like many users here - but who pirate - are not normal people, they are pirates.
Edit: I didn't make opinions. I refuted an argument that suggested people who suffered hardship are allowed to break laws. You're the one who brought up the idea that piracy is awesome and everyone should do it. And to prove that, you posted two links that show a rise in digital sales, and a rise in piracy, and implied the latter caused the former, a classic mistake of correlation is not causation. You also asserted that piracy does not harm anyone, when I clearly showed several cases of piracy having both direct and indirect negative effects on rights holders, and these are just the ones we know about. You can choose to ignore reality and evidence if you wish, but it makes discussion difficult.
Your example: Yes, there's a fine line between sharing and piracy. And yes companies can go bankrupt from mass sharing. They can also go bankrupt if your product is shitand nobody buys it (digital or not). But the line is still there, and pirates cross it without regard for the consequences. There are fine lines all over the law. When does an accident become manslaughter, or culpable homicide, or murder (of various degrees)? How drunk does she have to be and much does she have to resist before consentual sex becomes rape? The fact is the law already defines these lines, and the courts decide when the lines are crossed. There is no such ambiguity with piracy - if you download a game that its creaters say you should pay for, but you didn't, it's piracy. You can try to imagine all these edge cases and "but what if..."s and all these scenarios where a completely different legitimate act is committed but it ends up with the same negative result, you can do that all you like but the kind of piracy we're talking about pragmatically is pretty clear cut. Living in a war-torn country and using that sympathy to suggest it's ok to pirate games, which is the comment I responded to way back when, is not ok.
You affected by piracy: But it was a positive affect, right? People stole your content and therefore you ended up with more sales, and became a billionaire? Isn't that what you're trying to argue? You post links and make arguments talking about how piracy isn't bad and actually has all these great, positive consequences; but in the same breath you say "oh but I wouldn't never justify it, piracy is still bad, it hurt me once". You can't even be consistent with your own views and you expect to participate in a debate with another person? Debate yourself, work out what it is your actual argument is, and if I disagree with it and feel like it then maybe I'll consider debating you. But until then this is fruitless.
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Analogy: You made a troll response that didn't require a response.
Links: You murder somebody by stabbing them you get charged with the stabbing death of a person. You shoot somebody you get charged with the shooting death of somebody. You pirate a copy of World of Warcraft but use a private server you get charged with piracy. You pirate World of Warcraft and use their server (which you can't) it's piracy and depending on the region and ToS, theft of service and trespassing. You use your legit copy of World of Warcraft on a private server you don't get charged with anything. You get charged for every crime you commit.
Value: Again you don't understand value.."the regard that something is held to deserve" People know the game is worth $50 or Photoshop is worth $350 or AutoCad is worth $2000. You are confusing cost with value.
Counterfeiting: Piracy is not counterfeiting. Piracy is illegal sharing. You can argue illegal copying but it isn't counterfeiting. Counterfeiting is something entirely different and the reason the laws see it differently is because it IS. Passing counterfeit bills is not counterfeiting..it's fraud! Fraud and counterfeiting and piracy are all different things. The person committing the acts benefit from it unfairly but the effects vary from minor to severe. Piracy is illegal sharing.
Normalcy: Normal is an average..a generalization. Context is how the word and combined usage means. Therefore normal pirate does not equate to piracy is normal.
Opinions: I never said piracy is awesome and everybody should do it. Again you are putting words in people's mouths. Those links were to show that piracy is not as detrimental as the industry claims. Sharing and digital piracy are the same in this regard. Sharing is considered legal. Piracy is not simply due to possession and in some regions licensing. You can come over to borrow a video game and beat it and most likely not purchase it later. Piracy is you making a copy of the game but still same outcome. Either way the company only obtained money from me. They never would have gotten money from you.
Personal experience: I didn't say piracy makes people rich. I recognize that piracy is sharing. Somebody taking my images and putting memes on them violates my copyright but it doesn't cost me anything. Somebody taking my source code for a game replacing the images and text and saying it is theirs is fraud. Somebody taking my images and saving them to their hard drive violates my ToS but not a crime in most regions unless they share copies. Again it doesn't affect me because it is sharing. It only affects me when they claim it as their own or charge for copies.
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Analogy: You keep saying it's a troll but can't state why and can't address the argument. Again, crying troll. I guess now it's trolling to stay on topic and debate a statement, and expect responses to that topic, as opposed to ambushing people with entirely unrelated arguments? Fine, them I'm a troll. I'm the scum of the universe. I'm a very naughty, very bad, evil person. I'm a child in his mother's basement and I do nothing but bully people online all day. Ok, great. Got that out of your system? Great. Now, do you understand why I disagreed with the original statement made? Do you understand how the analogy I made demonstrates the faulty logic of that statement, irrespective of how good or bad you think piracy is? Ok, cool, we're done here.
Links: Yes, piracy is a crime whether or not it also has other consequences, glad we agree.
Value: It is in fact you who have confused cost and value. Photoshop may cost $350, but if you took it for $0 its monetary value to you is $0. And if others know that they can get a copy of it for $0 too, they'll be less likely to value it at the price it's being sold for (the cost). Hence value goes down across the board.
Counterfeiting: Piracy: illegally copying something generally considered valuable in society against the wishes of the true owner of the product, so that you gain the benefit of that product without paying for it. Morally, it's stealing, benefiting from taking a product you have no right to without paying for it. Morally, it's a type of fraud, because you're being misleading in asserting your right to own the product.
Counterfeiting: illegally copying something generally considered valuable in society against the wishes of the true owner of the product, so that you gain the benefit of that product without paying for it. Morally, it's stealing, benefiting from taking a product you have no right to without paying for it. Morally, it's a type of fraud, because you're being misleading in asserting your right to own the product.
And if you use counterfeiting to purchase a digital product, how is that any different morally, physically, consequentially, from pirating?
Legally, yes, they are different crimes, for a variety of historic reasons, none of which have to do with the financial gain or (im)morality of the actions involved.
Normalcy: You didn't say normal pirate. You said a normal person who pirates. I ague these are not normal people, they are a subset of people: pirates.
Opinions: Again, for about the 3rd time, I care little for the financial effect of piracy. So piracy causes $6 million in damage rather than $8 million, who gives a flying fuck? Piracy is still detrimental, even if it were financially beneficial it still has other negative repercussions and ethical flaws, and you're presenting (shoddy) evidence that has nothing to do with any argument presented by anyone. Why the distraction, are you unable to stay on topic?
Personal experience: Still, you can't make up your mind which belief you want to represent. Stil, you confuse results with acts and intent. Still, you think piracy and sharing are the same thing (care to 'share' some $100 bills with me? Fresh off the printer!).
" It only affects me when they claim it as their own or charge for copies." - WHICH IS PIRACY, THE SAME THING YOU'RE ADVOCATING!
BTW, it also affects you if someone who would have bought your game, instead sees that they can get it for free (because it was "shared" - LOL) and doesn't buy it, but still enjoys the fruits of your labour. But I guess you don't seem to think so. Jesus Christ, with an attitude towards piracy like that no wonder you were a victim of it. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em, right?
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I actually somewhat enjoy that phrase. I may use it at another time, so..thanks?
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See the brown countries? You can be executed for being gay there. See the shades of orange? You go to prison..sometimes for life. In some of those places even being a rape victim is considered a crime.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:World_laws_pertaining_to_homosexual_relationships_and_expression.svg
Piracy is awesome!..aka..Homosexuality is awesome! So you wanna be a homophobe or pirate now? :p
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I always avoid it as whenever theft is raised, people go completely blind and can't stop talking about "piracy is not stealing", "pirates don't physically take things" regardless of what the actual argument is. Problem is there are people for which no analogy is adequate since they don't grasp the concept of analogy, and think it's insightful to point out that different things are different and ignore even their own original argument.
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I feel like the best you can do is transfer your funds or something, since they aren't allowed to make sales to your region. I feel like the fact that you couldn't get Steam money from where you are should have thrown up a red flag for you...
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technically just not being able to buy a wallet voucher wouldn't necessarily be indicative that he couldnt buy from steam at all. im from south africa and there are no wallet vouchers here yet we can still buy games from steam through other means im just geussing OP didnt have a way to buy from steam or wanted to set a limit on how much he would be able to spend during sale which isnt that bad of an idea
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Follow his advice and publish this on reddit's steam subreddit. I shouldn't say this, but use a clickbait title. Take screenshots, this should be made public and huge. As you said, it's your right to try and enjoy these games, you deserve it more than anyone else.
It's sickening.
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The people working there are terrible. They should refund you the money or just transfer it over to your account so you can spend it. It's unfair how they get away with this awful customer service.
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http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/
Funds added to the Steam Wallet are non-refundable and non-transferable.
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Does this rule also take into account the regions where Valve pretends that you can use their store and even lets you add funds to your Steam wallet but then refuses to let you use that money on games? There is nowhere said that they can legally do that. They are intentionally misleading their customers and that might be legally challenged.
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You're probably missed the point where OP used steam wallet card from another country and put his cousin's (from another country as well) info on redeeming this card.
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Ok, that is surely one side of the coin, however the money is already there in the hands of Valve. They allowed the guy to go around the system in the first place and the money is lost now. You can keep saying it was his own fault as much as you want, but that doesn't change the fact that he should have the right get his money back in one way or another because there is basically no legal base for anyone to hold your money for no reason at all and refuse to return it if it clearly doesn't belong to them, no matter what way you look at it, it is like stealing. Valve may not feel responsible for this, but is it really as easy as saying "It was his fault, don't blame us"? No it's not that easy. Think of it this way. There is a deep hole in the sidewalk, workers there even place barricades around it to prevent people from falling down there, however there will be a curious kid who accidentally slips through there unnoticed and falls down and gets injured or even killed. The company working there may not feel responsible, but it was them who made a hole there in the first place and thus created this potential death trap, they failed to make it safe enough and someone fell a victim to their poorly secured working place. It should be in the best of their interest to help a victim out instead of being a complete dick to them.
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While I agree that Valve sometimes okay, most of the time are total dicks, they got themselves covered pretty well.
Just take a look at
http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/
Steam may make available an account balance associated with your Account (the βSteam Walletβ).
Steam Wallet funds do not constitute a personal property right, have no value outside Steam and can only be used to purchase Subscriptions and related content via Steam
Steam Wallet funds have no cash value and are not exchangeable for cash.
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I'm pretty sure a good lawyer would easily prove them wrong and illegal and abusing their position simply by applying such controversial rules on their side. Let's face it. If Steam Wallet funds have no cash value, then why don't they give me 1 million eur to my Steam wallet for free? I'm mean if it doesn't cost anything, then it surely is not a big deal for them! I hope you see now how stupid this is and they have no legal right to hold your money without providing you any way to use it.
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If the OP had used common sense (It seems like you're lacking, too) then he would have realized that maybe having to fake your information and get a wallet code from outside of your country would mean he would have some problems... By your logic, any government should prevent crimes before they happen, like "Oh he wants to buy a gun? Arrest him so he can't shoot anyone with it!"...
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It doesn't work like that, and shouldn't.
The retailer was the one that profited off the sale of the cash card.
The user was mistaken (though an innocent mistake, hardly an abuse).
If Valve refunded the card, they would literally be refunding a purchase from a different company.
It's akin buying a pizza from Pizza Hut, taking it home, finding the box was full of nothing but icecubes, then going to Burger King for a refund (and then calling Burger King shitty for not refunding it). Yes, the sale of the cards is linked to Valve, but it's not as simple as that.
Similarly, I don't think they should leave the customer out in the cold either, and could hopefully come to some kind of compromise or at least some limited form of compensation. Yeah, the customer was at fault for having misunderstood the regional restrictions, but Valve also allow the viewing and supposed purchasing of their store even in restricted countries, which is exceptionally (and unintentionally) misleading. It's a lack of foresight from both parties, and the retailer will be the only one making a clean profit from this no matter how it goes down.
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Valve still get paid for the gift card in the end. Following your example, it's more akin to buying a frozen McCain pizza, discovering that you got sold a box of ice cubes and taking it directly with McCain. (But they won't help you since you live in Mexico and you crossed the border to buy a flavor that's not even sold in your country.)
If he's able to use the market, he could always spend the funds on items/cards /gems to trade for games. As long as there's anything he can do with those funds, he's not completely out cold. But if they're really stuck in limbo, then they could try and be more helpful.
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Yeah, your example works way better. Mine was more to underline the disparity in refund source, so needed the little exaggeration to highlight it.
I actually had a similar issue before. I pre-purchased the original All Points Bulletin, and then when it died not long after release, I tried to get a refund on the purchase. Steam directed me to EA. EA directed me to Steam. I got nothing. \:3/
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... and that's what you get when your support organization is bunch of bots and/or mindless drones who can only copy & paste standard templates.
Well, in the end they might still not be able to help you out, but at least they could've explained things in a better way. Like explaining why it's not supported and wether there's plans to address it.
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^This. I don't believe that the OP is right, well if you consider it he tried to bypass the whole Region Restriction thing, but at least
give a god dammit explanation to as why he can't use them and if there is a possible way to fix this issue. That's unacceptable.
You are a customer, you may not always, but that doesn't give you the right to be a dick and not do shit
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The difference is that despite not offering the ability to purchase games, they still allow the ability to add funds to the account, which they can never use, and offer no assistance when the matter is brought to light.
It's not too much to ask that they work with the person in this instance and try to find a compromise.
The funds are right there in the account.
The account is able to play games.
There is a customer support staff.
There are higher-up staff that can be alerted and requested for extra info.
I work in a form of customer service role, and while I sometimes have to enforce policies that I myself do not agree with (based on regulations, rules and so forth), I also realise when a customer has been trapped in a manner that may have even potentially or partially the fault of my host company, and even where the likely response is "no, we can't do anything", I would still refer the case on to a higher member of staff even if only by email as a low-priority issue. If I still had to go back to the customer and apologise that we were unable to do anything, I would at least try to explain the 'why' of the situation where possible, beyond a deadpan "Nope, I'm terminating this call, bye" response. Digital customer service roles are different, yeah, I get it. If there is an extreme volume to get through, yeah, you sometimes have to be flat and blunt, but this is hardly a normal case as it has just stung somebody's wallet unnecessarily for a substantial sum of money, in an oversight of the host company.
Come on. Stop pretending this was an harmful abuse or manipulation.
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I completely agree with everything you said. That's exactly what I was implying myself.
They are like, well you can add those 50$ into your account but because you bypassed some rules you will never be able
to use them. Then why would you let me add the funds in the first place?
After all even if I am wrong, I believe I deserve to get a response which will explain me what I can do in such a case
and why I was wrong in the first place.
Moreover, I never said he tried to abuse the system (which happens let's be honest, but that doesn't seem to be the case)
What I tried to say is that he is in fault, whether it was intentional or not (I can't know that) , but he still deserves an explanation
of the situation
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Argh. My bad then. I had a quick skim-reading hop over this thread and the dismissive "the poster is always in fault" attitudes irked me a little. I guess I jumped the gun aheh~
This is what I get for skim-reading at 5am. Sorry for being prickly.
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EXACTLY ! Even IF there's no way to help he could've tolerated and explained better
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lol :D , I actually am half-time pirate but it sucks having to go through all the trouble. Besides, really wanted to support some of my favorite games
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You could've tried contacting game devs directly with permission to donate them a few bucks without interfering steam.
Steam made "75% to steam, 25% to author"-cut on paid skyrim mods, I don't think game devs will get any better.
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The answer is about 30%. Valve gets about 30% off of games. They planned on taking 30% for Skyrim mods (this other mystical 45% you're looking for would have went to the PEOPLE THAT ACTUALLY MADE THE GAME). 30% is a pretty universal take for the people selling and distributing your game (Apple too takes 30%). This is less than in physical goods (when you factor in manufacturing, etc. etc. ends up to about 50% of the retail price).
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You redeemed your wallet using another country info, that's your fault .
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Mmmm did you tried to buy something in the market? like keys? maybe you could buy games to other users and pay in TF2 keys, also, if you can buy items in the market, there's a way to pass steam wallet funds to another account.
Hope its only when you buy games the issue and not this other things
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Can you buy TF2/CS:GO keys from the marketplace and use them to trade for games on here and other sites?
Also, if you do happen to get it sorted in the next couple of days, all the games that were previously discounted in the summer sale should be back on sale on the last day.
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I don't know about that because i have to wait for 30 days to even try, but might as well be the same as purchasing a game
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I am wrong yes, but do i not have the right to play games? That was my money and they could've at least stated possible solutions
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I completely agree, the fact that they offered you nothing should be inexcusable for such a vast corporation. Maybe see if next time a competitor like gog.com is more worthy of your funds. I wish the best of luck in the future, and stay safe!
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You should insist an write to support again and again. I opened a support ticket couple weeks ago and they responded me with automated answers. So I wrote back both times saying that I felt no one had really read my messages. They finally answered me and offered me a solution. You should also suggest solutions, like the money being transferred to somebody else's steam wallet.
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You are in the right to play games, don't act like anyone is telling that you aren't. After all steam is not "games". And they aren't obliged to sell you games.
Just as the guy out of NerdHouse's screen said, you are doing/ did things that aren't allowed and they cannot help you with that.
How about you ask for possible solutions, just forget the thought about trying to make a big fuzz about this as of you are in the wrong and not steam, so it won't help anyways.
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Yes, but he stuck $50 in a hole that said "don't put money here" and then he's mad that he got slapped for it. He had to get currency from one country, and a fake address from another to try to circumvent the system, and then he's surprised that he had a problem.
It's sucks that that money is now tied up in the account, but he made his own bed here. You can break the rules (twice) and then not expect to get caught.
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Write on Volvo's facebook page (yes, the car manufacturer) and explain your situation there - worked for Diretide, might work again ;)
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http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/events/diretide
TL;DR: Users want Diretide event (Dota 2) from Valve and take it as far as posting on Volvo's (because those hip Dolan kids can't write correctly and call Valve -> Volvo) social media sites. Volvo actually replies and suggests that Valve should give the users the Diretide event. Diretide event actually happened.
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is your steam account registered with all your personal info? Steam might think it's account fraud or something.
i'm not sure about your countries restriction with steam...
do you have any credit card or registered paypal account to add funds directly to your steam wallet?
but if you do have a credit card or from someone you know from your country. you should be able to buy games from store. the payment detail on your account might require verification after a few days.
the credit card had to be "verified". Steam will charged 2 random payments between $1.00 to $1.99 then you can go to the "Steam Market".
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Sadly PP and Credit Cards are not available as well....yeah it sucks this much to be a gamer in a 3rd world country
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i guess there's nothing you can do. Steam is US based company and there are restrictions from the government.
I hope Steam is able to refund you the $50 steam wallet some how.
i'm not sure if you ask a friend from another country to create a steam account, add games with it. and use family sharing to share with you. but then again, i'm not sure if there's any restriction that prevents you to play games on family sharing.
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I remember reading an article about US companies being forbidden to do business with some countries overseas due to war. If this is the case here then Valve is following the law set by the US Government and has no choice. I just did a quick google search and found this:
"According to the United States Department of the Treasury, American companies are forbidden to do business with Iran, Lebanon and Syria. The reasons vary slightly, but they are generally due to the countries' associations with terrorism, nuclear threats or human rights violations. There were also sanctions against Iraq, but they have been lifted since the outcome of the Iraq war."
From the article I read a while back, American companies are not allowed to do any business with certain countries and being that Valve is based out of the US it has to follow the laws. I would suggest doing what others have suggested and try to contact support again, contact Gabe on twitter or email, or see if you can purchase anything on the market such as TF2 or CS keys and then use those keys to trade for games you want.
On a side note, I had to contact steam support recently and was far from impressed with their lack of customer service. They were rude, abrupt and didn't even try to help. My issue was no way near as urgent or serious as yours, but I have heard terrible stories about their support and sadly they really don't seem to care to help.
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All of what you stated is true, it just really sucks that i can't enjoy stuff and it's not my fault to be born here :/
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That's why sanctions exist. It sucks but that's how governments force other government's citizens to compel their government to change. Hopefully things will calm down there enough so you can play games again. Stay safe.
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That's part of the reason why when having issues with Russia, the US didn't call for full on sanctions. They specifically went after things that the richest of Russians wanted/enjoyed and sanctioned those. The world is slowly learning. Sorry it couldn't help you.
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**UPDATE: Lots of people are reaching out to me asking if there's anything new to my cause, will sadly there isn't...
The sales are ending, i'm gonna miss Ground Zeroes, Final Fantasy VII and Castle Crashers' sales :'/....oh well
In response to some popular opinions in the comments:
1- Yes, i 100% acknowledge that it was my fault...but the reason of this whole thread is that the support didn't even try to help nor is willing to transfer my funds to a friend
2- Yes, i've tried dozens of VPNs....still locked away from my money :') . It really sucks because like, i've took the risk at first because other people are activating and buying stuff in my region/area and they just get away with it... i still don't know why the hell is my luck this bad and that i can't buy even with the same proxy they're using....
3- No, i can't buy tf2 keys or market items because i have to wait for 30 days
Anyways, although i kinda feel the urge to ask the people for the three games i mentioned above...but i'm trying to damage control my urges because i don't usually ask for free games (on a giveaways site...oh the irony xD !) sooo yeah...
Thanx for your concern and see you around :). Maybe i'll update this once more if anything new happens
**
ORIGINAL POST: This is honestly unbelievable, the Steam support is the worse i've ever dealt with and The most unprofessional.....
http://i.imgur.com/NJkleKP.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/HlDzNpQ.jpg
My story is, well, you can find it in the support ticket image i uploaded above. Do you honestly think this is fair? How can I have 50$ of funds in my Steam wallet that i can't do shit with?
I just wanted to share this with you all, really felt like this should get some buzz. It's not that there's nothing that can be done to my issue, they can simply change the region of my account and nothing will explode or whatever and honestly this whole regions thing is becoming more and more stupid, this is 2015 and anyone with an Internet connection and a PC is a potential customer but what was done to me is a show in complete injustice and i wouldn't be surprised if that kind of response came from a personal hatred of sort
I really need a hug as well :| , gonna miss the Summer Sales
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