hey guys, i cannot believe since the HUMBLE MONTHLY deals that people COMPLAIN for 10 games for around 12 bucks! this is nealy 1 buck per game. even if you only like 1 game it is 12 bucks for 1 game and the rest you can sell/trade!
i come from a time where i paid for a new game 30 - 70 bucks, and now i pay for digital games mostly 20 bucks or so and less. and there are games in the monthly bundle which are sometimes only a few months old and still people say BAD, WACK blabla are gamers like this and customers really still ok in their thinking?
i expect to get flamed here now but i cannot believe what i read on various forums and am just shocked how UNAPPRECIATIVE people got nowadays and dont EVEN respect the work behind the games and especially that a part goes also to charities!

i despise those comments and just think this is a big no no no!

4 years ago

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Humble Choice is way better for me. If there aren't any games I am interested in, I know I can pause without worrying about missing out.

4 years ago
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Exactly this. No gamble, no loss, and ~3 weeks to decide. And this month gives you that choice to a bigger pool of games for the month.

4 years ago
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So this means, I can pause now and un-pause next month after they reveal the games?

4 years ago
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You can always pause Humble Choice now or Hubmble Monthly before

4 years ago
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If you leave it paused, it will un-pause for you once the new months starts.

4 years ago
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Welcome to the modern days internet.
Full of toxic people.

As for the new humble choice i prefered the old classic last day reveal like many others.

4 years ago
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As for the new humble choice i prefered the old classic last day reveal like many others.

Same. However, I kinda like the first day reveal as well because it allows me to pause if there is nothing of interest.

4 years ago
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correction its 20$ for 9 GAMES. Maybe you got that confused, because you still have the classic plan, only available to old subscribers, provided you dont cancel. Though we have no idea how long it will take for HB to remove that plan. It's gonna happen
as for anything else, it's a service that people paid for and it may or may not be worth it for them.
you should also take into account that some people may be able to get these games cheaper elsewhere

4 years ago
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As long as the 'classic plan' works it is indeed a pretty good deal and since you can pause after knowing which games you'd miss out on, it ain't too shabby. Once the 'classic plan' runs out this thing is just plain wrong and unless there are nine killers (and almost no fillers...) it's a no-no.

4 years ago
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20$ for 9 games is still great!

And if they can get the games cheaper elsewhere, great! They can pause that month.

4 years ago
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" It's gonna happen" Citation needed.

4 years ago
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You know, it costs $10 in any country of the world. And income in different countries varies greatly. And on top of this, regional prices in steam varies greatly too. So, If someone's monthly income is $2000, and full price of those games for them is, for example, $200, and then someone in another country has income of $2000 and full price of those games for them is $50. It looks like a good deal in the first case, and not so good for another one.
And then, on top of it, people like different kinds of games... you know, 10 games that you don't like are not a great deal for whatever price, unlike the 10 games that you like a lot.
So, If someone is from a country with low income AND don't like those games much - they can complain that deal is not great, because for them it's bad indeed.

4 years ago
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If someone's monthly income is $2000, and full price of those games for them is, for example, $200, and then someone in another country has income of $2000 and full price of those games for them is $50

Let me help you a bit with another example:
If someone's monthly net income is $250 and they manage to save for a medium-cheap laptop, pay for rent, bills (including internet) and food and after a long month wanna buy some games to have something to look forward in a hard life they know all too well... and those games are $12 out of those $250... those games better be really good in their opinion.

4 years ago
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Instead of $50 you wanted to say, prices are lower too. And let me remind you that steam has discounts too, so price in steam will be $25. And if you only want two games from this bundle - it will be $5 in steam. Instead of $12. Yes, for $12 you will get 8 extra games that you can, for example, trade for the games you want, or giveaway. But overall - this deal is not so great.

4 years ago
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You need to remember that not everyone has Humble Classic. So not everyone is paying $12 for 10 games. It is now $20 for 9 games if you didn't lock in the Humble classic. Hell 3 games will cost you $15. Also, you say you come from a time where you paid $30 - $70 for a game. Those days are still today because those prices are still the prices for games today. I remember paying $80 - $90 for an N64 game when they came out.

Yes, it can still be a good deal but you will never make everyone happy. I wasn't excited about this bundle but I ended up redeeming it since I figure I'll give the games a try I didn't really want. I am still a Classic sub so two of the games I didn't grab were Shadows of War(I already own) and Them's Fighting Herds(thought this looked really dumb).

You need to remember that people have every right to complain if they purchase something. They don't need to threaten but they can be displeased all they want.

4 years ago
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then they just shouldnt buy it and thats it. I hate how people complain about everything its just annoying. nobody tells you, that you have to buy the monthly and you can even pause it which is something not many subscriptions offer.

4 years ago
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then they just shouldnt buy it and thats it.

Jealousy, it's a basic feeling of people who don't have classic plan so they have to pay more for less
maybe because they're too lazy to PAUSE when classic plan still exist so they just plainly cancel it since it's a bothersome

oh, also, Hi VN-maniac :)

4 years ago
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i aint no maniac ^^

4 years ago
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I hate how people complain about everything its just annoying

This is exactly what you are doing now. Now I'm not trying to start an argument with you about this either. You have every right to complain also. If someone pays for a service they can complain about it all they want. You have no idea if they paused it after complaining or if they canceled. Sometimes people just like to let off some steam. Some complaints can be a little over the top but who really cares. If you are happy with your purchase then be happy. Don't get mad at someone else because their taste is different than yours and they are dissatisfied.

People are always going to complain about everything. Nothing will ever make everyone happy. Hell, the Destiny, Modern Warfare, and Apex subreddits are packed full of people constantly crying and complaining that the game isn't focused around what they want personally. I just move right past those posts and look for the stuff with legitimate problems or cool things to talk about. Sometimes some complaints are heard and can be helpful but they can also be bad for the community. Like I said as long as someone isn't threatening people over something pretty mundane than they can complain all they want.

4 years ago
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Oh, no! It's paying customers getting angry at a company who's only objective is to make more profit! Let me go out of my way to defend this capitalist company who is only trying to take more money out of people's ass and think I'm so cool and important because I'm going against the flow! Let's all be thankful a capitalist company is making a move to make more profit while disguising it as being good for the customers. Yeah, that will sure get us all a pat in the back.

4 years ago
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Pretty much this.

While it's true that games have become much more accessible and generally cheaper than in the past, there's also been a significant rise in absolute crap in both quality of gameplay, content, and services. When customers voice legitimate concerns and make others aware of bad practices, it is usually the only way to make companies listen since in the end most only care about profits.
Every single voice that defends a company that makes bad products is essentially supporting practices that will hurt customers more in the end, which affects the entire community.

4 years ago
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on the flip side, a lot of complaints are mundane and trivial. Every single voice that complains frivolously is drowning out the voices of legitimate complains, which affects the entire community

4 years ago
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Leave that poor strawman alone, whatever did it do to you?

4 years ago
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4 years ago
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ok sorry, but even for $20 it is a bargain i think and you get 10? games and 1-2 should be interesting and keep you entertained... no wonder games get more and more invaluable and gamepass and co fuck everything up

4 years ago
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People already put all their money into Fortnite skins and mobile games so there isn't any left for real games.

4 years ago
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Ba dum tish!

4 years ago
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maybe because F2P-type of doesn't have anything worth to show-off when they're not a pro, so they show-off skins
Me for example, but not for skin LOL

4 years ago
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You do realise they put in base games hoping for dlc sales, and those generally get lesser discounts?
Companies do try to get a cake and eat it too.. so all is fine to judge.

4 years ago
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true. plus since u can pause it isnt like they force u to pay for games u dont want

4 years ago
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4 years ago*
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You're entitled to your opinion. So is everyone else.
Negativity abounds. As does positivity, if you wish. Maybe channel more of that into your next post? It might be received better -- or not! Who knows? :)

4 years ago
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^ this. A complaining thread about people complaining would just lead to endless ranting.
Also... I'm not complaining about it hahaha the OP won't read this, but should consider this a suggestion.

4 years ago
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While it's true that games have become much more accessible and generally cheaper than in the past, there's also been a significant rise in absolute crap in both quality of gameplay, content, and services. When customers voice legitimate concerns and make others aware of bad practices, it is usually the only way to make companies listen since in the end most only care about profits.
Every single voice that defends a company that makes bad products is essentially supporting practices that will hurt customers more in the end, which affects the entire community.

While I don't know the complete details, I know that most of the outrage against the new HB is because they changed their offers to something that is ultimately worse for the end customer (which may or may not be true). Therefore, you cannot just throw random numbers into the air and accuse others when they have a legitimate concern and a reason to complain. What you'll ultimately end up doing if you defend the wrong causes is support a market that already caters to the lowest common denominator and continue to offer subpar products to maximize their profits.

A lot of people act like spreading positivity must always be better than spreading negativity which I agree to in general but not when it comes to these cases. If you positively defend bad practices, you are hurting everyone just as much as if you were criticizing good practices. It has nothing to do with entitlement or luxury but about being able to identify whether there is a problem that deserves attention so it can be brought to light and companies are forced to do better next time.

4 years ago
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it's a great deal if you have the classic subscription. And if they can maintain the same quality as this month's, it's a great deal no matter what subscription.
But, the problem is, a lot of it has to do with how it was sold.

Truth is, HB had to increase the price eventually. Had they maintained the old model, and just raised the price a few dollars, people would have complained, but understood. Had they switched from hidden games to no early reveals and pick your favorites, people would have grudgingly been ok with it. Doing both at the same time is a lot to digest, and presenting it as an improvement just came off wrong:

Previously: you get 8+ games for $12
New: we're making it a better deal - for $14 you can have 3 games! Oh, but if you want you can have 9 games for $20
That.. doesn't sound like a better deal.

And, to be fair, the December deal was a bit weak. Under the old system, it'd be a weak bundle, and that after the price increase!
I think if this month had come first, people would have been satisfied that, yes, this is worth the price increase.

4 years ago
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But before you paid less without knowing what exactly you were getting. Sure there are some reveals but that was at best 1/3 of the games.

Now you know what you are getting without needing to pay so one can look up price history and see if its a good deal for $20 .

Sure, there will be a discussion about the quality of the games but you cant please everyone. And lets not forget that devs/publishers decide if they want to bundle their games or not.

4 years ago
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oh, I know it's better. I'm just explaining why people feel that it's not

4 years ago
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I actually have Humble Classic and I despise the new system they have. They treat new customers unfairly who didn't have had Humble Monthly beforehand. Why should I get more games than others? Only because I was a customer before they were? Tck, what a shitty reason.

You know, the prior reason of Humble's existence was to make money for charity. Ever since IGN bought them, it's all about making money. Fuck those sellouts.

4 years ago
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it always was about making money. They just masqueraded it well

4 years ago
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I for one applaud the current system, hated that I had no idea what I was buying into (so most of the time I didn't, unless the early unlocks were worth the asking price for me) so I am happy that I can decide based on the full "package", even if I am not interested in some titles in it.

4 years ago
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Thanks for Skyrim!

4 years ago
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Yeah, I prefer the current system to be honest. Knowing what you're buying before you pay up means we can make an informed decision. It wasn't like they blindsided people with it, they announced the changes beforehand (along with the classic plan) so people could decide for themselves whether it was worth it or not. While the plans give less games for a higher pricepoint, they're no longer blind gambles.

The sad fact is you simply cannot please all of the people all of the time, and as a company they are allowed to pursue profit provided they do not do so in an immoral or predatory way. It's also fine for previous customers to be grumpy about the chance (because as always, most of the annoyance is just people being change resistant), but not so fine to fly off the deep end with said grumpus. The bright side is that there are plenty of other bundles / sites to deal with if people don't like how the price-vs-quality thing panned out. There are no devils or angels here.

4 years ago
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besides, previous customers were given a great deal with the classic subscription

4 years ago
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People usually flock to forums to complain and those that are happy don't because they are too busy enjoying the product they were provided with. Don't read too much into it, there will always be people that complain out of the hundreds of thousands that have subscribed to Humble Bundle and it's only the vocal minority, the rest don't even know these forums exist nor cares, they are pretty happy enjoying their new games.

4 years ago
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Unless people that are happy flock the forums to read complainers' threads and complain about complainers 😆 Or make up non-scientific statistics about what "most people" think and what "only a few people" think.

Honestly, though, people don't have to agree all the time, people have different perspectives, people have the right to complain about what they think is unfair or whatever, and people have the right to ignore those complaints.

What annoys me the most are those self-proclaimed paladins that will come forward to protect those who don't need defending. That's why I usually avoid threads like these myself, but, eh, seems like I wanted to roll my eyes a little bit.

4 years ago
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Not sure if you were referring to me or not but if so I'm neither complaining nor defending anything, just stating my own observations. It's not even really just with Humble Bundle at this point but what I observe always happens on forums on any site, game, media, whatever. Forums were created so people have somewhere to voice their complaints, opinions, suggestions, etc. that they find lacking in the product, game or service provided that bothered them enough to peruse said forum in the first place.

As for made-up statistics, if the majority are truly unsatisfied and voiced their complaints, then a change will almost surely happen. Unless the company truly does not care about their customers anyway and I still believe (in Humble Bundle's case) that they do.

4 years ago
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Nah, I meant the OP complained. That's what made me roll my eyes.

But I did tease you about statistics, since you (and me, and probably everyone here) sees only a very small fraction of people's opinion, and we're usually biased by our own interests (when not by algorithms, too), and ultimately we don't observe in a methodological enough way to warrant us saying about "most people". Even polls are biased because of who is actually finding those polls, and who care enough to vote.

And I don't think Humble actually cares about customers, I think they just know that most people will pay even if they have complaints.

4 years ago
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With all the negativity towards the new choice thingie, it took me a while to realize that yes, i can pause after knowing what games are in it. A huge improvement (in my book at least!) over previous gambling-method that only clicked when you really really really wanted that one revealed game.

4 years ago
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I was strongly against HB during monthlies, I've seen them as a gamble almost on par with lootboxes, where you pay $12 for a list of games you have next to no clue about, and you either justify that with early unlocks or you know that you're going to get scammed.

And I won't lie that I've bought one HB monthly across all those years, the last one before it switched to choice, exactly to activate the classic plan. It solves the problem I had with their monthly scheme, I don't go in blindly and accepting that I'll get crap I don't want, I can decide whether I do want to get those 10 games out of N this month, or perhaps if I want to skip the month and save money. This has caused me to switch from being overly anti-monthly, to overly pro-choice, because in my eyes you don't only have a choice and can skip some games in favour of better ones, but the quality got better than monthlies from just a few months ago.

The only thing that remains a pure, awful scam to me is the new pricing for them, because $20 for 9 games is a joke. If there was no classic plan I wouldn't get it whatsoever, but after reading what they're up to, and after realizing that I'll finally have an option to pay $12 for 10 games to keep, and I don't only know the games but can freely and intentionally skip the month if HB starts falling down with their pyramid scheme, made me go with it. I'm still pessimistic and I'm almost sure that this plan won't last for long, either they'll remove it, convert and try to convince people that it was needed, or the quality of games drops significantly. On the other hand I know that people are idiots, and there is a possibility that enough of fools join in that $20 for 9 games scheme, making it only better for everybody on classic in terms of the games provided.

I do not regret, because there is nothing to regret anymore, you either pay for 10 games you pick yourself, or you don't, and you can't logically complain that somebody presents you an offer for free that you don't have to accept.

And no, the games aren't bad. I'm probably a bit biased now that I'm finally subscribed, but from the monthlies before I had months with absolutely nothing interesting for me, sometimes 1 maximum 2 games I am remotely interested in. Now, first 2 choices, from december one it's clearly 2-4 for me, and from january one 2-3, and this misses TPH and GK that I've already got before and would enjoy as well.

There are people that will always complain, mostly those that aren't even subscribed or on eternal pause, this is how bias works. Good statistics is getting average number of complaints to praises per month and based on changes in that decide if the quality is getting better or worse. I say that even if choice would come with 10 DIG-quality $1 asset flip games, you still have an option to skip a month and you do not lose anything in the process. This is vastly different to banking on $12 early unlock and getting 9 asset flips together with it blindly, you can analyze the games yourself and you can decide whether it is worth it in your eyes or not, and I expect that there will be skipped months for me, but intentionally, coming from analysis and me being a cheapskate, and not from a fear of getting crap games I don't want, or staying subscribed out of fear that I'll miss games I'd actually love to play. Choice is awesome in this regard.

4 years ago*
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pyramid scheme?

4 years ago
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Having a classic plan with new plan that doesn't only give less but costs almost twice as much is clearly an attempt to fund them with new people joining that will pay more. Of course I didn't mean literal pyramid scheme scam, but it's quite obvious that it can fall when not enough of people join. And fall doesn't only include hard HB closing the offer, but rather, and especially, a significant fall in quality of the games offered.

4 years ago*
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because $20 for 9 games is a joke.

Depends on the games. My rule is that I'll buy a bundle if the total cost of it amounts to a 75% off discount on the game(s) in it that I actually want. In December I bought the 9 games bundle for two games, but they gave me a discount that made the 9 games bundle cheaper than the 3 games.

This month, the bundle started with 6 games that I had wishlisted. I took a closer look at them and decided that 3 of them weren't games I wanted to pay for. But the 3 game bundle still met my 75% threshold, and the 9 game only barely missed it.

I cancel every month after my purchase.

4 years ago
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No, it doesn't depend on games. If I can get 10 games for $12 then even if those games would be the latest AAA games worth $60 USD each, you're still getting sharked on more than $8 for the same content. It doesn't matter how much something is worth when somebody else can get it for more than -40% off regardless of your price. Sure, you can justify getting sharked in such a deal, by realizing that the content is still worth your money, but it still doesn't change the fact that others get it cheaper. And it is unfair, since people on classic plan didn't do anything special to be on it, and you can't join them anymore. If I wasn't on classic plan myself I'd probably never bother with buying choice, even when I wanted a full bundle of awesome games, I'd rather trade with somebody who has classic and lose only 10% in the process and not 40%.

4 years ago*
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I got really annoyed when I realized my second account wasn't subscribed, because I could totally offload the whole bundle for a profit every month

4 years ago
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I have doubts that I'd be truly getting games cheaper in the long run if I was on classic. Sure, I would have so far. But those months where I pay despite the month having nothing I want, because I forgot to hit pause (assuming pause isn't disabled in the future), have to be considered in the long run.
That was too much of a gamble for me. So I opted out of the gamble.

Then there is the sunk cost fallacy. Sure, those people who got classic are getting it cheaper. But that's not an option for me, and never will be. So it's best to ignore them and focus on the options still open to me.

4 years ago
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Eh its still a good value but some people feel entitled I guess.

4 years ago
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Money could be falling from the sky on all of us, and someone would complain.

4 years ago
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that hundred dollar bill gave me a paper cut!

4 years ago
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Its been on the ground! Disgustng!

4 years ago
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4 years ago
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4 years ago
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The thing is, money is a competition.
When everyone makes $1000 an hour, you'll find that a loaf of bread doesn't cost $1 anymore. Ask Venezuela.

4 years ago*
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4 years ago
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No but last time I checked, they made like 10,000 of some local Monopoly money. So everyone is a millionaire but noone can buy bread. Something like that

4 years ago
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4 years ago
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YEP

4 years ago
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What kind of argument is that? Tzaar, you are so full of shit it honestly hurts >_<

4 years ago
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Says the cheap ass who only posted in the thread to insult someone.
You can fuck right off now.

4 years ago
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[To echo my response to a similar question within a deal thread:]

When Humble switched Monthly to Choice, there are some people who didn't pause and cancelled all together based on principles, such as:

"I think the quality of monthly bundles were going downhill anyways. Might as well just buy other bundles or games on sale individually."

"I'm not going to support a company who increases prices almost 50% for new subscribers who want as many games as they got before in Humble Monthly vs Choice."

"Humble is not the same since they were bought by IGN"

I'm paraphrasing here as I don't hold all these views myself, but I can understand where some people are coming from.

So even though compared to Humble Monthly people who continued on with Choice Classic (whether paused or paying) get the new benefits of being guaranteed 10 games and seeing them all before they buy at practically the same price (barring potential region & tax differences), evidently principles like the ones above override those benefits for some people.

The first principle/concern is more a matter of how long someone has been buying bundles & games and the state of the PC gaming industry.

4 years ago
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4 years ago
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You should have subbed before the winter

4 years ago
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4 years ago
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We are here to please.

View attached image.
4 years ago
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I can't believe people COMPLAIN about 10 games for around 12 bucks!

They're actually complaining that this pricing is only for existing customers who used to pay 12 bucks for 1-3 early reveals and 4-6 blind games, which they usually considered "trash". Can't have 7x recently released AAA games for so low, but don't even bother trying to explain it to them...

They're also complaining about the "standard" plan, which is the best one available to new subscribers, being actually 9 games for 20 bucks.
Which is still actually not as bad as they make it sound, they're mostly bashing it just for the sake of bashing, and because bashing IGN is especially cool.

And I guess nobody could be bothered to bring up the 3 games for 15 bucks plan, they'd trash it even harder... and for good reason, this time.
Seriously? 75% of the top plan's price, for one third of the games, and halved store discount?

That said, those who complain are always, and I mean ALWAYS, without fail, a vocal -very vocal- minority, as opposed to the silent majority who either likes it, just doesn't care and/or doesn't feel like talking about it, or anything inbetween. And I bet most of them aren't even buying any of those bundles anyway.

Or they are, and are actually complaining about the lack of profitz 'cause they're full of "trash" that hardly sells.
Anybody who actually knows how to value games (and not instantly label everything non-AAA as "shovelware"), would definitely agree that past Humble Monthlies weren't actually that bad, just hit or miss (some months more "miss" than others), as you can't cater to everybody with just 6-8 games; and that the new format is a lot better, since everything is laid bare from day one, and the quality seems to be higher (at least for the time being).

And just wait until "generous gifters" start complaining en masse about "mah CV", like Gollum chasing after his "precious".
(this was actually unintentional, but turned out to be a pretty fitting reference since there's a Middle Earth game this month)

There's absolutely no way Choice games won't be mass-bundle listed, at least for as long as the Classic plan sticks around.
The current month, for example, would give around $300 total MSRP by choosing the 10 most expensive games, which puts bundling treshold at $15.
Standard pricing is already cutting it pretty close (exactly $15/month with a yearly plan, but with one fewer game), but the $12 Classic plan would totally hit it.

TL;DR: yeah, you're right. First world gamer problems.

4 years ago
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That said, those who complain are always, and I mean ALWAYS, without fail, a vocal -very vocal- minority, as opposed to the silent majority who either likes it, just doesn't care and/or doesn't feel like talking about it, or anything inbetween. And I bet most of them aren't even buying any of those bundles anyway.

So... those who complain are a minority compared to a group that includes people who are also unhappy but don't feel like talking about it. And those who complain aren't buying the thing they complain about being too expensive. Doesn't really seem shocking to me 🤔

There's absolutely no way Choice games won't be mass-bundle listed, at least for as long as the Classic plan sticks around

Hadn't thought about that... I'd see it as a positive, it was ridiculous how previous monthlies had arbitrarily some games set as bundled and some set as still unbundled, just because monthlies were basically always 93 or 94% instead of the almighty magical 95%.

4 years ago
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cheap leeches gamers: damn ign is ruining the industry and making indies go bankrupt!

also cheap leeches gamers: support the devs! buy games from them! *checks g2a and bundle sites for the lowest price available*

also also cheap leeches gamers: $20 for $300 worth of games? i expected at least $50.000! greedy devs i will boycott them!!!!!!!

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4 years ago
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I've been a Humble Monthly subscriber since ages and despite being brazilian, where games are cheaper than other regions, it has always felt like a pretty good deal for me.

It helped me save some money on many games I liked and also helped me discover awesome games that I would have missed if not a subscriber.

I liked the new pick-and-mix format of Humble Choice and only hope that if they start putting EGS games to the pack, they give us choice over which platform we want to activate those games.

4 years ago
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I support the devs by buying from the cheapest source. If they realize that their game is available for $0.5 and I still feel like I was robbed, they will try harder to make good games. Eventually they'll realize I'm making them a favour. /s

4 years ago
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Often, people think they're better, richer, ethical than others where facts might disagree with their sense of superiority. Cheap leeches against cheap hypocrites is a never-ending online battle.

No need to worry much. ✌

4 years ago
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what blows my mind is when people are angry that the games in the bundle dont include the DLC-s and act like as if selling the base game alone is some sort of ripoff or a scam.

As if it was ever promised or implied that all the games bundled will have DLCs in it (unless explicitly stated otherwise obviously). Bloody hell, sometimes i cannot tell if people are actually playing games or are just trying to ease their OCD urges of collecting them all, no matter what.

Thats not to say i would have mind having those included but i aint gonna throw a hissy fit that i didnt got what wasnt even promised at the first place ¯_(ツ)_/¯

4 years ago
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Come on. Everybody knows that games are just unplayable without having all the DLCs!!! Even if they just add a costume or two!!! And its well registered that the price of the <some game> complete edition is cheaper than the cost of the bundle(when on sale thats it) so why isn't included???? Damn greedy companies caring for money and not for ... for.... well I am out of ideas.

4 years ago
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