i have -53 at the moment so definitely not just you having this issue!
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Maybe dynamic points system? I mean, if we enter a 5P draw and the game subsequently increases to 50P, would the remaining 45 points be subtracted? That's the only explanation I can find
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Don't think so because i have entered zero point giveaways before and the price changed to say 30P on game day release for example and that never took points away from me as far as i can remember.
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I've heard of that happening when giveaways are undeleted but that would have to be a whole lot of GAs. :thinking:
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I'm currently at 400p, how boring, could have joined in on the fun.
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I have the opposite bug with 495P 😜
Your dynamic points system explanation is the only thing that makes sense. I bet you and stevey are in a GA that had a big price increase on Steam today.
Maybe it's one of those shovelware games that go from $5 to $200 for no reason. Check your entries and let us know if you find the culprit.
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If you enter and win a game, all the other giveaway entries are refunded to you. You wont start collecting points again until you are under 400.
Another possibility was you entered several giveaways that were deleted.
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I was just joking about the "opposite bug". I know where those +95P came from. It's from exiting GAs that I was stashing points in.
I probably have close to 1200P in total rn (available + stashed) and little that I want to spend it on.
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I think a lot of the deletions for overpriced games have been reversed/undeleted, I suddenly got -800P and -$2000 group ratio for a particular group at the same time.
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https://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/rgtRD/updated-changes-to-point-system
If a giveaway is undeleted, the opposite will occur, and points will be removed from your account if you previously entered. For example, in the above situation you had 440P after the 50P giveaway was deleted. If you continued to enter giveaways until 360P and the giveaway was then undeleted, you would drop to 310P, since you would once again have a 50P entry in that giveaway. In a rare situation where you used most of your points, and only had 10P available, the undeleted giveaway would lower you to -40P.
So users had surplus of points at first, and when GAs were un-deleted - they were subtracted. It nets 0 points all in all like it should be.
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Giveaway undeletion is not common, and each time is handled individually.
Most common is when we (as support) make a mistake - creator make ticket in Delete GA category, but want only one winner from multi-copy GA to be removed. But someone by mistake accepts the ticket. In this case, the ticket must be escalated, so mod with high enough rank undeletes giveaway and then removes only a specific winner. Usually it doesn't take long, but sometimes the queue is longer, and it may take 2-3 weeks before GA is undeleted. And points from all entrants (that get them "extra" when GA is deleted) are removed.
But there are other individual cases where it can be deleted. Say creator accepts deletion but then changes mind and want to deliver win after all. If it's in reasonable time frame (and winner did not get win somewhere else obviously) - it can be undeleted. There may be some bundle that provides the wrong key, and the creator deletes it "just in case". But it turns out their key was proper - we can undelete it, so they don't lose slot and can deliver game. People may delete GAs with zero entries to "clean" profile, but don't fully understand it removes slots - and run into situation where they can't make GAs - we can also restore those, but under the condition they will not repeat the same mistake again.
In the end it's always done on case by case basis.
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So if I won the game in the meantime will it still add me again as a participant or is a participation also removed from deleted giveaways?
And tbh I personally would prefer if I would not be readded if a giveaway is undeleted.
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Deleting giveaway works quite similar to deleting a game on Steam - it's just "hidden", never erased from the database completely. So everything connected to it - entrants, winners, description - is still there. Just doesn't count towards winners or creator stats.
Same as when you delete account, only your private info is deleted. All information on won or created GAs is kept. User is only listed as "Deleted".
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Okay if I understand you correct it would result in the following:
- I join a GA for a 50P game on 1st with duration till the 14th
- I join another GA for this game on 1st with duration till 3rd
- first GA get's deleted on 2nd, I get 50P back
- I win second one the 3rd - yay!
- I get kicked out of first "soft deleted" one because I won the second one. My entry is just deleted without any more points because I already got them back?
- First one gets undeleted on 4th - Nothing changes for me?
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We don't get points back when giveaway ends, and then we win another giveaway for the same game. And site does not pick a winner for deleted giveaways "that are still running". So I'm fairly sure it does not go to remove our entries from deleted giveaways. But it's just assumption.
In situation from discussion I linked to giveaway ended and site picked winners. If it's deleted they get points back. But if it's undeleted then they "lose" points, as website properly picked winners and checked if people are eligible to be winners in the first place.
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Thanks for the confirmation. If permission from all parties is required for the deletion of a giveaway, should the reverse not also require all parties to consent?
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Both Require New Winner and Delete Giveaway require consent from the GA winner (that can't be implied) and ticket from the creator. But if creator gets permission - they never have to use it. And giveaway winner can't "force" the giveaway they won to be deleted or re-rolled.
Say key doesn't work, and creator ask for permission for deletion. Winner agrees and in the meantime mark giveaway as Not Received. But then creator can't be bothered and never makes the ticket. It is valid to not use winner permission if creator is fine with Not Received feedback. In the end, it's the creator who decides how their giveaway will be handled.
We require winner permission for deletion / re-roll to prevent abuse:
1) where creators would re-roll giveaway for arbitrary reason (race, nationality, avatar, level, played games, hours in Barbie Dream House etc.)
2) make sure creators make giveaways soundly (check restrictions, if key expires, don't make GAs for promotional reason and ask for deletion as don't want to deliver), or you may end up with Not Received, as winner can not agree on deletion to "hide" mistake
I can think of only one case where un-deleting giveaway would be "bad" - winner has multiple wins, or just want to delete win on Steam. Winner contacts the creator, deliver them a game of similar value (to make up for loss in CV and GA slot), creator deletes giveaway. But later try to come to us to undelete it - they would both have game from the winner, and CV for GA that was deleted. So they would benefit double from the same GA. At the expense of the winner that would try to solve the problem of multiple win, or delete a won game from Steam and not risk suspension here.
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In one of the SG groups that I’m in, we have to keep our value difference above -200 points.
A few game developers decided to change their game prices from around 1-5 $ to 200 $ each. Now all giveaways for these games were messing up a lot of user’s value difference in the group.
Unfortunately, I had been making some giveaways with these games. But I was also the winner of a lot of these games.
I got to an agreement with all the giveaway creators of the games i won, saying that if they deleted their giveaways for all these overpriced games, then I'll do the same.
A few days back all overpriced giveaways that I won was deleted. And all mine overpriced giveaways were also deleted.
But one user decided to undelete all the overpriced giveaways, despite we had a mutual agreement to delete all overpriced giveaways. I did not agree to undelete all these giveaways, and now my value difference is fucked.
The only way to make up for this is for me to undelete my deleted overpriced giveaways.
I don't get the point, why you allow undeleting deleted giveaways. Now you will have to handle all my support tickets for undeleting requests, and when I do so, many other users in the group must do the same to fix their value difference as well.
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The only way to make up for this is for me to undelete my deleted overpriced giveaways.
If you have a group-wide problem with ratio, then group owners should adjust how ratio is calculated. Like excluding those games from the calculation. Otherwise, you will run into the same problem each time random dev decides to change game price, which is a given... Support is not here to watch over and adjust in-group ratio. It's group owners that are required to manage group in a way that work. There must be a reason to undelete giveaway. And "I want to change my group ratio" is not good reason. Otherwise, we would turn SG support into moderators for all possible groups that would use some sort of ratio.
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How does the owner of the group exclude these games from calculation in the group? We are using the Value Difference from this page: https://www.steamgifts.com/group/NFEJe/mini-jedi-training/users
Could you please elaborate the reason for undeleting hundreds of deleted overpriced giveaways yesterday?
Update: I just chatted with the guy, who undeleted all these giveaways, he said he was expelled from the group due to some other disagreement, and as revenge he undeleted all these overpriced giveaways, and now many users ratio has been destroyed. Is revenge really a valid reason to undelete giveaways?
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Sounds as "REVENGE" will be accepted as reason^^.
It's a first class comedy today on sg with the undeletion special "feature"
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Who would have thought that using shady, overpriced fake-games to cheat cv system / group value system would have a backlash? If I were managing ratio based group - I would kick out immediately anybody who would use that kind of strategy xD
Also "revenge" should be now separate support ticket.
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Of course should be members kicked that exploited such GAs in a big amount.
The groups that got now hit hard don't cared in the past and get now the punishment for it. I am fine with that and can look from outside how the comedy show unfold^^.
But, to be fair, it give members too that gave only 1 or 2 copies of games away, from a DIG bundle(s), when their price were on the $1 - $4 level and raised now to $100, so in short "without a bad (exploiting) intention". Mostly in groups with much smaller amounts of members that done this. Which, of course, don't influence the group stats so extremely but still can influence them not in a tiny amount.
So, mostly, groups got hit that gave a sh#t on the quality of GAs -i don't have a bad feeling because of this- but other groups got hit too, without a possibility to prevent it and the words from MSKOTOR that the owners should handle the stats are ............. -interesting- (i not use the word that lay firstly on my tongue). The "revenge" undeletion of this one ex-member of a group [i don't know which member and i am not interested to dig to find out which one it were] is interesting too :-D. Maybe she think that each one program a bot account to handle all group related stuff -with own stats that aren't based on the given tools from sg- (like Archi did for his group) ... but this is far away from the reality and the skills of the most group owners.
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I don't think there was any valid reason for deletion in first place... So undeletion sounds fine.
Maybe group simply needs a better approach.
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Normally admins / mods of ratio groups do manual checks. Having a ratio group is a lot of work, that's why I never wanted to have or be part of one. I have a rule in a group I co-admin "majority of CV can't come from 60CV for 1 dollar bundles", and have to check potential candidates manually. And just this "simple" check takes time. Ratio groups will never maintain themselves.
If you give me a list of affected games, I can generate a list of giveaways that were created and have winners, and save it in Excel. And you would need to sum giveaways made / won by people and subtract totals from their group stats. Depending on general RAW CV as only criteria is extremely prone to abuse from the group members.
It's not possible to generate it on SG, so I could run a simple script that would parse group JSON data. But with 30k giveaways made, it's 300 pages to check. It is possible to import JSON to excel and make macro (there are dozens of training websites that show how), but it would take more time.
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Group admin may ask you to delete these (non cv) GA's if creator is not a group member anymore... Is it possible?!?!?
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Group admin can ask group members for many things, but if you're no longer in group you don't need to follow group rules any more. You also don't need to do it when in-group tbh, but that can lead to being kicked out.
But group admin can't tell support to delete "this giveaway" as it's problematic to group ratio. Or say that person is no longer part of the group, so we should delete all their won games. Only "power" group admin and mods have on SG is to moderate their groups - so decide who can join, check if they still follow group rules, and if don't - remove them from group (and if someone won group GA after they were kicked out - submit evidence for re-roll). They have no decision power over which group GAs should be deleted or re-rolled.
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Can you fix that all 0 CV games calculate as 0 point in "Value Difference" in private groups?
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You can't fix what is not broken. Group stats show RAW CV by design. I think it was a nice add-on when we get community stats, not something super serious that is was supposed to be base part of SG. How it evolved since implementation is a different story. It is an easy way to "maintain" group, but it's extremely prone to abuse. That's why ratio groups tend to focus on monthly giveaways or number of sent gifts, while excluding shovelware games.
I do agree it would be nice to have both RAW and RealCV visible on group page. But I don't think how taxing it would be on server. Or if there would be "coding-time" set aside to implement it.
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Not knowing how the site is built in the background, but based on basic information available, I would say even the crude solution for price change could be implemented easily.
What (I guess) is known and correct info:
- Site uses local database in background for storing game data.
- Game data in local database is synced/refreshed with Steam once a day or maybe once every few days (based on what I have noticed about price change delay).
Crude solution:
- Create one new table. This table would hold all IDs for games that will be set to 0 price value. I guess this table would not get more then 10.000 rows in its lifetime.
- Create web interface so site admins could add IDs to the table.
- In schedule which syncs with Steam, after sync is complete add an extra step - to update price to $0 in local database for all the games which have ID in the new table. Would probably take few seconds to perform the update.
Yes, this solution is crude, but it would work, it is easy to implement, and it would not change or endanger code that site is already running on.
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I have 499P while I didn't join a giveaway in days consider I don't see giveaways for days now so yeah, am sure they did something which removed some points!
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WTF ... undeletion of deleted GAs.
o_O
I don't see a reason for this function...
... but i will not think deeper about ways that it is useful for (more possible loopholes)
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I woke up to just under -$200, nevr happened before
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This thread is certainly a wellspring of, uh, various knowledge and insights, for lack of better phrasing. Very curious.
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The Answer to the Question is that excLLL reversed all the GAs they had deleted , so your Ratio's will have taken a hit and you will have been deducted points for those that were added back to your account
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That's explain MJT value difference then. I didn't know a giveaway could be deleted, and undeleted after.
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Rather than just deleting those GAs that were needed they got warned but continued to have hundreds deleted that had No Entries \o/
Which meant they lost a giveaway slot each time and ended up with negative giveaway slots so couldn't make any Giveaway
He was warned about this, but then rather than like i said to then to undelete the ones that had No Entries so they could make more GAs they decided to undelete them all cos i removed them for trying to steal as much as the could from the Group
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I have opened the website after a few hours, and I found this. Is it a bug or something? I remember I close the page with more than 30 points. And suddenly -83P.
Has this ever happened to anyone else?
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