Unplugging your modem for a few minutes is hard work, you know!
And god forbid using a proxy!
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Just trying to help like the mods say: "Report the beggars in Support. We have the ability to find their accounts, see if they have other accounts registered on the same IP address, and ban accordingly."
I don't pretend to know anything about how effective it is :/
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minutes? a second or two is usually enough. some countries also set up their routers so they give you a new IP every time the PC connects to it (every time you start your OS). that means you dont even have to leave your seat to change your IP!
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not to mention you may indirectly ban several other users that are behind a NAT, or another SG user which will get the banned IP eventually...
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You do realize that you can still see usernames and giveaways even though you're not registered, right? We could increase it to $1,000 and you'd probably still get the same. How about your properly report these incidents?
A. You did not come to me first.
B. We suspend these members if registered on our site.
C. This is not a valid reason to raise the minimum account value.
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Putting $80 or $100 would cut down on more than half of this, i'm pretty sure.
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No, it really wouldn't. I've already explained this several times, but boosting your account isn't easy to do since there are a number of games that do not count towards your account value. DiRT 3 is one of these games, among many others. If someone is able to afford to boost their account to $50, I can guarantee you another $30 or $40 added to the minimum wouldn't make much of a difference.
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I'm inclined to agree. If someone really wants to cheat, they will pay the extra money to do so.
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i don't think he wants to raise the value to keep people from seeing usernames and giveaways, i think what he's getting at is, that people will make, have made and as you can see in the chat log, are trying to make multiple accounts to undermine your decisions (aka bans). i have no issues with the current minimum, but i can imagine that raising it a tad bit (not $1000) may do the site some good.
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The only way to completely stop this is to make everything anonymous to non-members visiting the website. While scamming reports have gone down to zero, I don't think it would work on beggars. The best way to deal with it is to ban these members guilty of harassing others. Though, we rarely ever get these reports. We don't know it's happening so frequently if no one reports.
Also, as I've stated, if someone can find a way or afford to boost a dummy account over $50 to meet the minimum, another $30-40 shouldn't be much of a problem.
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im not talking about beggers, nor do i believe was he, im talking about people who get banned and then create new accounts just to get back into SG. And yes, you can assume these people have infinite incomes, but then why would they try to get back onto the site? anyone can afford to boost a dummy account to $50, but how many are actually willing? and what if the requirement were to be $100? don't tell me that it wouldn't be a more effective deterrent. we can see from the chat log that he isnt having an easy time getting to $50, but he is still willing to try as its really not all that much. If its such a hassle for him now, then what would make you think that he would still try if it were become higher?
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If you have any real criticism towards my "bad argument", please share your thoughts in this thread.
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Yeah, it's becoming increasingly more awkward to find and read comments across all threads. Unfortunately that thread has nothing to do with that one argument.
any real criticism towards my "bad argument"
Well besides that it made you look as if you just don't care, no.
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HI GUYS SKYRIM RUINED MY RELATIONSHIPS and my SITULATIONS, CAUSE ITS TOO ADDICTIVE
now buy me Saints Row 3 pls
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Don't take it personally but you should include/tell his username(if you know), instead of just making him/her anonymous which is same as encouraging/helping him/her to cheat the system.
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Sorry if I was unclear by tell, I meant tell mods/Admin
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I reached $1000 worth in games nearing five years after I started to use Steam. What you're suggesting is plain bollocks.
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i'm on $450 (not counting recent games as steamcalculator is being stupid) and i've only been properly using steam for around 5 months, so it's not hard if you actively buy games instead of torrenting etc
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Maybe not that much, but I thought Steamgifts was supposed to be a community wherein everyone was supposed to join in on the giving. If you only have $50 worth of games on your account then you most likely are not going to be giving away any games anytime soon.
I'd suggest setting it to $150 or so. My opinion though.
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Everyones been using steam for almost a decade, also people don't buy games off steam :-D.
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WTF guys! You set the 50 dollar minimum to rid it from cheaters, the truth is you will never get rid of cheaters. You could keep on uping the amount of money spent on your account but scammers/douchebags will always cheat the system. To that I say damn you foul cheaters to hell!
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I support the minimum $ in your steam account to be boosted in order to get in. Not that much of a change though, but it would help put a stop to some of this, i know there are cheaters and hackers that would get through it, but at least it remains helpfull, even if its little help...
Hell, i would even support the fact that you could only put entries on other peoples giveaways, once you made a giveaway yourself and it was confirmed to be legit somehow... i know this is likely to be exploitable, but i'm sure it would help this community aswell, it would also force people to contribute with something in order to get something in return, or a chance to.
Yes, i have "leeched" and i've made this suggestion, might sound stupid coming from me but im trying to make a point and i would gladly make a giveaway if this was implemented in this community... I think this suits it, its a gifting community, not a leechers/leeching community.
tl;dr version
Contribute with a legit giveaway, to get a chance to participate in other people's giveaways.
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Eh, any amount will still have cheaters. and I have two friends I wanted to link this site who honestly can't afford to buy games for themselves, but would enjoy some of the low-specs-requiring indie titles given away often here. But they can't, because they don't have $50 worth of games.
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$75 maybe? I mean you'd have to be pretty damn desperate to spend $50 for one more chance to win free games.
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Isn't this an example of why the system works? The user clearly wants to create another account, but cannot find a way without spending more money than it would be worth. I'll increase the limit if you can find a way to create a new account, meet the minimum $50 requirement, and within a year pay off that investment and generate a profit using the site.
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1cent humble indies bundles ? Can get you 50$ accounts pretty quick
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Dude this has been explained countless times before..Even if someone actually manages to activate EVERY single bundle, bought at 1 cent, into one account that would only make like 25-30$ if that much. And I highly doubt that someone can actually do that because they would have to be stocking on 1 cent bundles from the very beginning of the HIB move.
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Frozen Synapse Humble Bundle alone:
Frozen Synapse = 25$
Trauma = 7$
Spacechem = 10$
------- 42$
Humble Bundle #3 (and it gives #2 for free) =
Crayon Physics Deluxe = 20$
Cogs= 10$
VVVVVV= 5$
Hammerfight= 10$
And Yet It Moves= 10$
Steel Storm= 5$
Atom Zombie Smasher= 10$
Braid= 10$
Machinarium= 10$
Osmos= 10$
-------100$
3 Humble bundles you can buy as 2 different bundles for 0.02$ = 142$ value O_o
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No matter what you raise the limit to, you will always have beggars. In fact, if you make the limit higher then people will be more likely to beg for games. Let's say that a person is willing to spend $50. If the limit is $50 then they will get in on their own. If the limit is $100 then they will beg for $50 worth of games. If the limit is $150 then they will beg for $100 worth of games. I will agree that it's not hard to get to $50 on your own (buying a Humble Bundle or 2 will get you to it pretty fast), but raising the limit will make it harder for genuine people to get in and far more likely for people to beg for games in order to get in.
Plus, consider this: If you need to have a ridiculously high value to your profile in order to get in, then are you really the sort of person who needs free games? At that point you're just a greedy person looking for more than they already have.
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but is $100 on a legit account really as "ridiculously high" as you imply? You say "raising the limit will make it harder for genuine people to get in and far more likely for people to beg for games in order to get in." But how? how would begging for $100 be easier than begging for $50? is it really so easy to just ask and receive $100 in games? and according to http://www.steamcalculator.com/ out of the 535,518 accounts that have run through their database, the average value is $794.60, so its not hard to believe that a "genuine" person with a legit account would have at least $100 worth in games. But, i understand what youre getting at and youre right, we will always have beggers, no matter what.
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Sorry, I didn't mean $100 as being high, I was meaning more towards the people who are saying it should be raised to $600 or higher. But I do get your point, I personally have over $800 worth of games on Steam and I've only spent $100 at most thanks to sales and HiB.
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The point of the $50 limit is to provide a barrier for entry for users creating alt accounts on different IP addresses, or to come back into the system after being banned. The SteamCalculator data is a bit skewed in that 500k out of 20 million might not be truly representative of the 'average'. Also note those using and registered SteamCalculator are probably more likely to be avid Steam users, thus artificially inflating the average.
On the flip side, this does confirm that legitimate Steam users, the kind that we would probably like as community members, already have a high average value in their libraries. Thus the $50 is a very low barrier for entry for those users we want, but a high barrier to entry for those we do not want.
My only concern with the growth really is that you might end up with a highly skewed ratio of those who are willing to gift games, vs those are only receivers. I fully admit I am currently in the latter category. Is that going to discourage users from participating on the site? I don't know. But there could be a breaking point some time in the future.
I'd definitely like to hear anyone's thoughts on how scalable the site would be from a gift/receiver perspective.
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The gifter:receiver ratio is very difficult to manage through a minimum account value. Having a higher account value would theoretically mean that a person is capable of gifting more, but it doesn't mean that they are willing to gift more. The inverse could be said for someone with a lower account value. In short: there's no simple way to possibly perceive what effect changing the limit would have on the gifterer:receiver ratio or the number of beggars. It's therefore my belief that the best course of action is to leave it as it is since it's much easier to deal with a situation you know than one you can't predict.
As for the current number of beggars, not much can be done about them if the exact size of the issue isn't known, and the size of the issue can't be known if people don't officially report it. The current system works, people just need to learn to use it properly.
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People continuously beg for things all the time, but I don't block them, I test their patience and begging to a whole new level.
Note: Don't be like me.
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I propose raising the amount to exactly how much my account is worth at any given moment. It'll keep out the riff-raff. Specifically anyone even remotely less wealthy than I am.
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It should be viewable if you just log in on your browser. It's private if you're not logged in.
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I agree the limit should be raised to 150$ and there should be an account creation date limit like 6 months ago at least I think.. Also any games that have been given away for free, through leaked keys or in any bundles shouldn't be included in account worth. That wouldn't solve the problem %100 but it'd be much harder to cheat the system.
Seriously even with 150$ limit and the rules I said, it'd take like 30-40$ real money with game sales.. If you can't spend that much on your account over years do you really deserve to be here?
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You didn't read any of my responses in this thread. I covered all of these points and more, especially what's included in the overall account value.
Again here's my response from before to respond to the current false information
"No, it really wouldn't. I've already explained this several times, but boosting your account isn't easy to do since there are a number of games that do not count towards your account value. DiRT 3 is one of these games, among many others. If someone is able to afford to boost their account to $50, I can guarantee you another $30 or $40 added to the minimum wouldn't make much of a difference."
These games have always been excluded from the account. Please refer to cg's response as well if you'd like to know more.
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22:11 - : dude im kinda desperate right now
22:11 - Aargh!: why is that?
22:12 - : i dont wanna spend gift on 2nd acc
22:12 - : so im here again
22:12 - : and im asking you: would you be that kind and help me out?
22:13 - Aargh!: I already told you I'm not gonna helpyou cheat the system
22:13 - : the thing is
22:13 - : im gonna do it anyway)
22:13 - : i have to do it
22:13 - Aargh!: Maybe you will, but not with my help
22:14 - : humm i see that deep principles
22:14 - : i like it
22:14 - Aargh!: if it's that much of a problem for you to cheat up a lousy $50 account, you've got bigger things to worry about than free games
22:14 - : but cmon
22:15 - Aargh!: So spare yourself the humiliation of begging fo gifts and just accept that I'm not going to help you.
22:15 - : i dont want to spend money on something i can have free
22:15 - : i will never use other acc for playin
22:15 - : anyway, got to try
22:15 - Aargh!: Go try somewhere else
22:18 - : dude you dont understand
22:19 - : but its not needed to explain
22:19 - : just tell me that you wont report me
22:19 - Aargh!: now you made me curious, what is it I don't understand?
22:20 - : you dont understand my situlation
22:20 - : or my relationships
22:21 - Aargh!: I think I understand well enough. You got banned from SteamGifts so now you're trying to cheat up a fake $50 account to get back in
22:21 - ****: yes thats correct
--
For the record, I'm not suggesting that raising the barrier of entry would stop beggars. I can deal with beggars, that's not the issue.
What I am suggesting that raising the barrier (to $100 or $150, which is nothing outrageous to the average Steam-user) would make it much more difficult for people to cheat the system. Would it completely stop people? Of course not. But at $50 it is in my opinion far too easy to create dummy accounts to in order to circumvent site bans and/or illegally raising your chance to win by using multiple accounts to enter giveaways.
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