I put in 200-300 hours on D3 before I stopped playing. I put in 11 hours on TL2 before I stopped. I would have to agree with you on that. Maybe now that Jay Wilson is gone I can play some more D3 soon. TL2 hasn't seen any improvements that would pull me back in, even after playing just 11 hours. It's still a well made game, and I like it.
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That's boring I waste my money for both D3 and this in 2012 :(
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I feel sorta the same way... I pre-purchased it and really wanted to love it but... well I like it but... it's missing something.
I think you got it; its the skill trees and quest system that fail; because I can't complain much about item variety and game mechanics; they are great, but the game somehow just... isn't.
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As a second comment; D3 was the biggest dissapontment in gaming history I think (yes, bigger than Duke4Ever).
Because it was made by a company that had never let anyone down before, so expectations were very, very high. AND for the first couple of hours, it doesn't let you down; its a great game with a great story and it's very well built, but after you get through the story and start... ya know... playing the dungeon crawler game that it is, you realize that its really just a free-to-play where you can't get the real juice from the game if you don't put more money down in the RMAH. And that's when you say "yeaaahh.... no!" and never play it again... the deception :-(.
As a side note; yes I will buy any add-ons that may come out, just for the story line; but where Diablo 2 was played for years, even after we're tired of the story and just crawl dungeons; Diablo 3 was played for hours until the story's done and crawling your arse off to find pony land just for the fun of it... crawling for items is just frustating.
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Why do you feel the need to put money into the RMAH? I played through the game, and then on nightmare and then stopped. I certainly got my money out of it, had a bunch of fun, did some runs with friends on co-op. Now, I'll shelf it until the expac, then do the same thing again. I never felt even a slight desire to spend real money on any thing in the AH, or use the AH much at all.
Maybe I'm not a hardcore player though, so perhaps that's where the RMAH comes in, but for me it was worth the $60 for the 100 or so hours of gameplay I got out of it.
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There is no NEED to use the RMAH, unless you want to get good items; which is the whole point of crawling the dungeons in a dungeon game - the achievement of getting cool items... in D3, this is impossible, if you want the cool items, you HAVE to buy them; that's what a free-to-play is; you can play the game, maybe even complete the game, but to get that extra juice, you have to put money down.
I've never put any money into the RMAH because, as I said, getting the good items is what we crawl for... once you've gotten all the best items, you're done; go play another game.. so.... why PAY to be done?
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D3 was a let down, and I think a big part of that is that Blizz releases MAYBE 2 games a year so they have to figure out how to milk profit from them. WoW is simple, it milks itself, but D3.. the AH just ruined it. the RMAH is silly but the AH in general makes ANY farming you do nearly impossible to find actual upgrades... so you end up using the AH to equip yourself to go find gear to put on the AH so you can get enough gold to buy better stuff on the AH... repeat.
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Not sure why people hit D3 with this. The RMAH is not required at all except if you're impatient and can't control yourself.
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That, exactly.
The enjoyment was getting the drop... that "bling" sound and the awesome color on the item's name on the floor... this isn't available in Diablo 3 standard... you have to go hardcore to get this; and when you're not really into losing all your game progress on a mistake or lag spike, then you can't have that...
btw: in hardcore mode the RMAH is disabled, so drop rates are much much higher (blizz can't profit from your thirst for power, so they let you have it for free)
game purchase required
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Completed the first 3 difficulties and the first 2 acts on inferno without spending a single penny in the RMAH.
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Try Path Of Exile.
Games is insane with its skill system.
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You have no clue what you are talking about....if anything Diablo 3 is more pay to win...
Cosmetic items and stash packs are not pay to win...yeah thats all they sell.
No items, no boosts, etc...
" Path of Exile is completely free to download and play. We never intend to charge for content or access to the released game. In order to fund the development and continued expansion of Path of Exile, we offer a range of ethical microtransactions that allow you to distinguish yourself in the world of Wraeclast without receiving any gameplay advantage. We are completely opposed to the concept of “pay2win”.
On this page, you can purchase Points used to buy cosmetic microtransactions. These Points can then be spent on a wide range of cosmetic pets, weapon and armour effects, animations and alternate skill effects."
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Hmmm I haven't played/obtained the full version of TL2 as of yet, but I think what people like about it is that its got quite a nice slick combat system and a nice variety of... well, stuff in it. Yeah, you can go with the same skills, if you like to, but you can also try out different ones - it's all up to you, but it is not really "required". Perhaps, that's what is making you call it "shallow".
Evnvironment-wise I felt TL2 had quite some options - snow mountains, standard "dungeons", pirate caves etc. It might not be an open-world game per se, but it does offer enough freedom.
Again, I haven't played D3, but I played lots of D1/D2 and afaik people, who don't like the place where the series evolved to, like TL2, because they find it more of a D1/D2 evolution (and so do I).
Did you try co-op? Perhaps, that would fit your needs better?
Also, if you're tired of hack-and-slash I don't think TL2 is going to bring something new to your world in any case, it really doesn't bring anything remotely revolutionary into the genre.
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I think I just felt like the "optional skills" were all the same with different graphics, the only way to change how my class felt to play was to swap to it's other weapon.
I will admit the areas were pretty and the art and items were cool, but I felt like even TL1 had skill options that felt like choices. Maybe they should have kept more numbers hidden from me? I dunno. The combat felt fun until I was level 15 and still had a weak attack, a power attack and a buff, that was like 2+ horus of gameplay watching the same 2 attacks.
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Interestingly enough, I heard exactly the opposite in terms of TL1/TL2 skill choices. As in "I only upgraded the starter attacks in TL1 and that carried me through the whole game, while TL2 is better". I don't really know what to say as for me TL1 skills were ok as I was working on diversifying them myself and thus I ended using slightly different combinations at different stages (like I used auras at some point, but than stopped). TL2 demo is only for a couple of hours so not many skills to be upgraded/seen there.
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It could be that D3 spoiled me but in D3 you unlock probably 15 completely usable skills in the first 2 hours of play if not more. In TL2 I had just upgraded 3 things by then and was really tired of them, and the only alternate skills I had were for the alternate class weapon, this might all change after 10+ hours of play but that's too long. Coop might help I guess.
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What wrecks it for me is the ability to spawn what ever item you want with mods.
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What I feared when I decided to purchase Torchlight 2 or not. Think I'll stick with D3.
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I think most people who have looked at it objectively have been underwhelmed. It's certainly a competently made game, but I think quite a bit of the hype was just part of the backlash against D3. People really wanted it to be a better game than D3, so they tried to overlook some of the shallowness, and some seemed to flatout refuse to accept that some of the improvements that D3 made to the arpg were actually pretty effective at making the genre more interesting. TL2 is not a bad game by any stretch of the imagination, and neither is D3, but one was hyped like crazy and subject to some pretty considerable (and IMO pretty undeserved) backlash while the other was seen by everyone to be the "indie savior" of the genre, despite the fact that it still had some of the same problems with boring builds, linearity and dull storytelling that's plagued D2-clones since 1999.
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"...that's plagued D2-clones since 1999" hmmmmmmmm....You do know that Blizzard got rid of the development team for D2 right? Can you take a wild guess of what that development team went to make? That's right, Torchlight and Torchlight 2. Yeah it may have flaws, I am not going to argue that point, but to me overall the game is fantastic and I found myself playing both more then D3.
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Of course I'm aware that Blizzard North team members left to make TL and TL2, honestly that makes the lack of innovation in the games even more of a letdown. These people have been working on Diablo games for almost 20 years, and over that time the evolution of their systems and mechanics has been less than impressive.
Also, there is certainly a market for TL2. People who just want an updated and slightly modded version of D2 have a well made game to sink their teeth into, and if you're one of those people, great! That doesn't make it a better game than D3 necessarily, just one that you're more comfortable with, one that is rooted in those same old mechanics that clones of D2 have been using for nearly 15 years. And that's totally fine, I'm glad there is a niche for such games, and I happy to see indie studios having success making them. The more the merrier.
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I don't think you are. I got bored playing it too. I just finished it because I wanted to see if anything changed towards the ending of the game. The skills are boring and there is very little reason to invest in multiple ones. As an embermage with just 3 skills you are good to go. The bosses don't feel like a challenge and I don't even know what the game's story is. There's nothing memorable about it, I've played over 25 hours and if you ask me to name one NPC or boss I wouldn't be able to. But then again the first game wasn't really great either and this one is for sure a major improvement over it.
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I liked the game alot and I'm not a big fan of rpg's. Played it solo had fun, played it with my friends had even more. I don't get why the Diablo fans are telling hate TL2 so much seeing that Diablo 3 was one of the biggest disapointments of 2012.
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tl2 is great imo,I very much preferred it over diablo 3. you must be missing something I don't know what though
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I really liked Torchlight 2, the game is fun and eventually you will have mod support which can bring some interesting things.
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You did realize there are three skill tabs per character, right? I find it hard to believe you could play a character to level 15 and feel there were zero skill options for you. Definitely way more skill options than D3 provides.
That being said, achieving Level 15 is absolutely nothing in TL2. This isn't GW, the level cap is 100. I don't see how you can expect to see all a class has to offer by only leveling up 15% of the way there....and that goes for any RPG ever made.
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3 skill tabs that all contain similar skills, most of which are not even worth investing skill points in because the game rewards you for investing many points in few skills rather than few points in many skills. I finished the game as embermage and reached level 60-ish. I probably used 4 skills total.
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Just because you played with only 4 skills doesn't mean the game didn't offer way more options. The skill tabs definitely do not contain similar skills...embermage alone is broken up into fire, frost, and storm, with each providing different skills that vastly differ from each other as you invest more points. Yes, each skill gets better the more you invest in them (as in any good RPG), but by no means do you have to invest the full 15 pts into a skill to get a worthwhile benefit.
Let's just break down the possibilities in the simplest terms:
Embermage: You can focus on one specific branch (fire, frost or storm) or combine them all.
Outlander: You can be a close-range ninja, a long-range hunter, or focus on summons.
Berserker: You can be pure DPS with dual-wielding, or focus on ice/storm dmg. You also have skills that buff/debuff, which can be useful if you play co-op.
Engineer: You can tank, be an all-out summoner, or focus on crowd control.
That's without discussing all the weapon possibilities, from dual-wielding to one-hand+shield to two-handed, all of which changes how you approach each character. If you think TL2 doesn't offer a lot of varying builds, I suggest you visit the forums for each class and see what people have come up with. TL2 offers way more variety in playstyles than D3.
PS. Though I thought I'd enjoy Embermage most, I had more fun with Zerker and Engie-summoner.
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Just because you have 'many' possibilities it doesn't mean that they are all viable. The game offered more possibilities but there was no reason whatsoever to try them when investing all my skill points in those 4 skills was the most effective way to play. And it's not the fact that each skill gets better when investing points, but unlocking each of the 3 upgrades makes them extremely better, which means there is no reason to invest in other skills before maxing the most useful ones. And if you want to try other builds, you need to download a mod because there's no native respec... Also, bosses are nothing but HP sponges, which is yet another thing that discourages from trying different tactics. Why would I bother trying different skills if I can use the same tactics I used for the first boss to kill the final one?
I'm not going to visit the forums to see what ridiculous builds people come up with, the skills are still boring despite of how you mix them. And not even going to mention the lack of a summoning tree. The engineers summoning abilities are pathetic. 60 second lasting summon with 90 second cooldown? Yeap, amazing. As for weapon possibilities, there's nothing new there. In D3 you can also change your playstyle according to which weapons you use, and the same goes for every decent ARPG ever.
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TL2 is too flat imo. Not necessarily in the characters, but definitely in enemy and boss design. LEt me guess, you just beat that boss with a ton of HP that kept summoning adds and didn't really have any other abilities? Yeah, that's the next guy too. And the next one
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Agreed. It's taken way too long to bring official mod support.
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Man it's a freaking hassle to get some particular mods working.
Some lazy modders can't simply set their .PAK dates to 2099, or something at least higher than current TL2 patch date.
Another thing is i have to reroll everytime i update Synergies.
This is just freaking annoying, i hope they change the way you update mods VERY VERY SOON.
This game really needs mod tools and workshop asap.
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I was kinda disillusioned by the skill system too, and I'd posted about it since beta. It's still enjoyable as an ARPG though, mainly due to its excellent pacing. I haven't managed to convince myself to finish it, at least not before the modding tools come out.
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I played alot of D3 last year and so I was a little tired of hack and slash when TL2 came out but I managed to grab it cheap a few months later and when playing through it it really seemed like there was almost zero skill options. I played 2 characters to level 15 and it seemed the only choices I made for each class was if I wanted the small fast 2 dual wield weapon or the slow heavy 2 hander. And I typically only had 2 attacks and a buff going at all times. The quest system was also pretty blah and just seemed to be a straight line through the game with a few optional quests around just so it wasn't a rail road.
What am I missing? I see people posting that TL2 was possibly the best game they played in 2012 and I just don't get it, and I WANT to get it because I'd like to enjoy TL@ as much as I enjoyed TL1.
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