This. People still play games on 2nd gen iCore and 16GB 1333-1600 Mhz without much problems in 1080p. Unless you're gonna play in 4K/60fps all the time, you won't even notice what memory you have. Maybe not even then because 2666 and 3000 are not that apart in any gaming tests.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Akg0_a48Z7M&t=140s
That's i5-2400, 16GB 1333 and way too underpowered GTX950 2GB. Now, imagine your cpu/ram and a normal gpu running 1080p or even 4K in any game. Yes, it would flow perfectly.
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Yeah i weighed every bit when i got my pc, went through several review sites per item, i went for a 8700k and (think?) 2600mhz ram, i am actually trying to find it but apparently it gets locked to 2133mhz and you need to turn on xmp in bios to get more (lesson learned) so apparently been using lower mem mhz.. Not really something you can see unless you run specific software for it.
Can see my build if you want. https://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/iaicd/my-dream (and yes i went overboard with everything, if i went for 3200 was just because of that, not so much of it's use).
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Your build is similar to mine. My last pc that i did build myself was best of everything 10 years ago. The m/board and CPU were still playing latest games now....well until the board went a week ago. Hence why spending a bit more now could save money in the long run....hence my question but i think i will go with 8700k and the 2666mhz. cheers
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Corsair H100x for cooling. Currently have a Nvidia 760 which i will keep for a few weeks and see what happens with prices after the new cards come out
Custom water coolers have been known to leak but the Corsair etc ones i dont think i have ever heard of one leaking. Correct me if i'm wrong :)
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An i7 and high RAM clocks are NOT overkill. Especially if you want to go beyond 60fps (then it's kind of mandatory). Maybe watch some DigitalFoundry videos on this. An i7 has better performance than i5 most of the time and enables higher frame rates. RAM is also more important than most people think. It can actually make a significant difference in certain cases. If you have the money, definitely go for the higher quality hardware, as it will definitely have some benefit in gaming.
As an extreme example, when I switched from a i5-3570 (which many people will still say is "enough for gaming") to a 6700K, I was finally able to run Rise of the Tomb Raider at stable 60fps, while before it went down to ~40 in the big hub areas. That was a big difference, and the only factors were the i7 against i5 and better RAM (graphics card was still the same for a few months, GTX 970).
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I've beat Rise of the Tomb Raider like 2 weeks ago and I had stable 50 FPS at i5 4590 + R9 280X. I used medium-high preset, but graphic options don't matter much in terms of CPU performance. I'd simply have less FPS on high settings, as GPU would be the bottleneck.
So if someone has tight budget it's fine to go for 6-core i5. If someone has enough money to go easily for i7 then it's better choice, as it's not possible to change Intel CPUs between different generations due to incompatible chipsets.
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How much of a price difference we're talking about?
Here the 8700k is 140€ more than the 8600k and definitively not worth the extra cost (if not only because a Ryzen 2700X is a more future-proof and cheaper choice).
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http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-8700K-vs-Intel-Core-i5-8600K/3937vs3941
And some just prefer Intel.
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I know what Userbenchmark says, but regional prices may wildly vary. I'm assuming that OP has a better pricing than me since he's considering two very different CPUs.
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Well, it's not exactly cheap, but i'd say pick your choice based on your plan. If you want to keep your CPU for a very long time the extra power of the 8700k will be useful, as games will take more advantage of more threads and cores in the future. Especially because, since Intel sockets keep changing, you won't be able to upgrade without buying a new motherboard (which is my main reasoning behind getting a Ryzen these days).
Otherwise you can save the money and invest it in an extra SSD if you don't own one already. It would be more beneficial on the short run. It's not like the 8600k will be obsolete in a couple of years anyway - the once similarly priced 4670k is still very useful to this day.
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yeah think i will go for the i7 as want it to last and my last i7 920 has lasted 10yrs :)
Given the m/board and i7 would you go for 16GB DDR4 2666mhz or 3000mhz? Looking at benchmarkingsit makes no diffefrence but wondered what others think that my have been in the same position.
Cheers
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2666 mhz is fine. Memory bottlenecking happens only with the most extreme CPUs and under rare circumstances.
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That's not true. Memory speed can have a huge impact.
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Go check out some DigitalFoundry videos on this matter. It can make a huge difference, if you are going beyond 60fps.
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I tend to go with the fastest overclockable non hyper threaded model because the price to performance is better. I would actually wait because Intel is supposed to be releasing new CPUs in 2 weeks and they will now have 8c16t, 8c8t, and a new 6c6t. I don't know what the pricing will be, but you may want to pick up the 8c8t instead. Or maybe the current gen CPUs will be discounted further.
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Yeah. I haven't looked into them and don't know what they will cost, but I'm sure they won't be cheap. I think the 8c16t is the only I9, the 8c8t should be the top of the line I7.
Currently in the US Newegg is selling the 6c12t 8700K for $360. The rumors say that the new I7-9700K will be 8c8t and cost around $350. I don't know if that is an official price or if they are just guessing.
https://wccftech.com/intel-9th-gen-coffee-lake-s-cpu-z390-platform-launch-1st-october/
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get the 8700 not k, i have a 7700k any extra i get from it i have so sacrifice sound, intel uses terrible internal paste and anything above default will make your CPU fans spin faster.
Appart from that, have extra cores is great, my brother has a quad core and the same graphics card as mine and i get 80 fps extra on cs go.
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Having that K will extend the life of your system. Although I built a new PC 2 years ago, I gave my old PC to my niece and it is still capable of playing some modern games. That old PC is an i5 750, which has a stock clock of 2.66GHz. I ran it at the stock clock until I couldn't get 60 FPS on newer games, then overclocked it to 3.8GHz and upgraded the GPU. The last game I played on it was GTA V. I could play on high with shadows turned down. It has a Corsair h50 on it, and the increased head of overclocking barely made a noticeable difference in fan noise.
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Unless things changed since I built my PC a couple of years ago (i7 6700K, 16GB 3000MHz RAM), faster RAM didn't make a difference for gaming, however, there was only a small price difference between the 2133MHz RAM and the 3000MHz. Also, the i5 vs i7, again, for gaming it doesn't make a difference, but I went for an i7 and the 3000MHz RAM because I do other things with my PC that will benefit having the i7 and faster RAM.
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if you only want to game you can go with the i5. unless you want the maximum fps and are willing to pay more. for the ram i recommend you based on what you play. if you play games with heavy calculations and simulations like cities skylines or factorio the higher mhz is better but for other games not so much.
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I guess It all comes to what resolution and refresh rate you're gonna play. Here's a comparison against the Ryzen 2700X. They both similar at 1440p but at 1080p the i7 8700K is the winner. i5 might be enough depending of what you want.
https://youtu.be/yVnCCMI--Bo
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https://pcpartpicker.com/product/wDQG3C/gskill-sniper-x-16gb-2-x-8gb-ddr4-3600-memory-f4-3600c19d-16gsxkb
I ordered this for my computer.
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My pc is 10 years old so is not able to run 99% of today videogames at graphics high,
but i can play all games i own (more than 400) via nvidia geforce now cloud streaming gaming service this
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/products/geforce-now/
And i'm happy because all games run max graphics like that example:
AC origins https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXV5xU-T6Ww
Doom https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kG10nMRbcNg
So my council for you is:
1) if you don't care about be Competitive or Online Multiplayer (you can't play this games with geforce now the delay always make you lose,for example games like pubg is impossible to play&win with that)
2) if you have a mediocre internet speed example 100download\20upload
3) if you don't care about sometime can happen little video artifacts or delayed
Consider to NOT build a gaming pc and NOT buy a console for max graphics,but instead wait for geforce now service
For me right now is the best deal,because i like only single player videogames aventures and fps so i not need a new hardware pc anymore right now...
Also with new gpu cards that out each 3 year at 600 euro or dollar not matter what "gaming pc" you do your pc will be always obsolete after 3-5 years,but cloud services never will be,because is the brand that update the power of the cloud machine you not need worry about that.
Consider also that with them you will have Unlimited storage space (vice versa with a pc you must pay storage space and if it broken u must pay another time too) and NOT need download games too.
Vice versa if you have bad internet speed or want do multiplayer\competitive you must build your hw\pc because streaming is bad for that (there is delay 1 second always 3 seconds sometime) but this then will put you in the situation to lose money if pc broken,if storage finish,if you must do upgrade , etc. etc.
I council to you also an SSD hdd for run games as fallout4 etc. or they "stutter" and normal hdd for "storage" for the GPU is better to wait because new card is coming and for cpu for sure you need at least minimum 3.6ghz in my opinion for games heavy about physics and if u buy old card better u get it with 6GB or + VRAM because 2GB gpu vram SUCKS to me,about memory i think 16gb would be ok,i have 16gb and never had much problem.
When you buy hardware always write in a paper all the serials (better if you write the PCB (circuit printed board) serials and not only the stickers,because if\when you send it to repair then you can be sure that you get back what you send
Also i see a lot of people say for play must buy 200€ motherboard with overclock etc, i play pc 15 years and this was never truth for me , if you want just enjoy indies or medium and old games it is ok also a 40 euro motherboard,also consider that motherboard is not "immortal" they can broken and when happen you lose money,if u buy 2 motherboard for 40 euro only lose 80,but if u lose 200 for 1 it sucks..
Also is not true that for play need pc "2000 euro\dollars" it depends in how you want to play..
If for you is ok to REMOVE shadows\lights\Reflections graphics and low the resolution to 720p 1080p and set the game at low or medium graphics so you can play also with a 300€ pc.
I noticed that most of time UP Resolution,shadow & lights,Reflections have huge impact in framerates (slow the game)
But if you LOW it all,can play also with bad or old pc most of time.
Example with my bad pc 3.6ghz\750ti i can play all 400 games in my library steam if i just low graphics and res.
i don't council to you to use money for expensive "overclock" hardwares,because most of time they is not worth it,instead save money buy cheap then when new hardware come after 2-3 years when there is big Double Performance jump with the money you save you buy it...
Example instead of buy a 200€ motherboard or a 300€ gpu for overclock it for +10% performance , better instead get a 113€ gpu a 40€ motherboard and then 3 years after buy a new cheap gpu and mobo.
Also don't make media brainwash you about graphics and "power" , because most of time when you PLAY FAST games you not see graphics effects.
Example if you play BF1,GTA,prey2017 etc. when you RUN with your caracter you not see the reflections inside a water pudddles etc. because the brain is busy to think about the enemies,or the storytelling etc.. and when image move fast you not see it...
Only you see it when you STOP gameplay calm etc..
Personally if i can play with geforce now a game max graphics i do it,but if i can't i do not care i can play it also all low by remove all light,shadows etc. with my old pc,because for me most important is storytelling and gameplay , graphics if have it i enjoy if not have i do not care.
One think i can say is also do not save money in Monitor,is important that monitor you buy is Healty for your eyes,because health come first,and if you buy a bad monitor that when you play make problem at you eyes then bye bye videogames whatever pc you have... so take care your health first.
And last but not least not make media brainwash you with "Techdemo Benchmarks" graphics articles or also shop with "RGB\LED graphics cards"...
IS better instead to search videos about REALTIME-GAMEPLAY-FPS of genre of games you like (example Fallout 4,Farcry5 etc.) and then based on that you buy the gpu...
Because i noticed that most of time benchmark demos is good result with a gpu, but then after buy the gpu it suck in some games...
about estetics led etc. not care so much,think + about framerates results and good dissipator and fans because they is important for my experience
If you build or buy a pc is important each 1 or 2 year clean the dissipator and fans from dust and change the termal paste (consoles too) and is important also to put a good thermal paste (artic silver 5 or prolimatek pk3 etc.).
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The CPU depends on what GPU you're pairing with it, and what you're playing. For general gaming, the i5 is more than sufficient. But if you're pairing it with a 1080 Ti, or plan to do a lot of VR or sim racing or something else that's CPU intensive, then you'll want the i7.
For memory, definitely 3000MHz, and even 3200MHz if you can swing it. While it won't increase your average FPS, it will remove memory as a bottleneck and increase your minimum FPS, which will make every game feel smoother.
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Unless you're tampering with voltages for advanced overclocking, getting 3000 mhz memory is useless. Besides, faster RAM has also higher latency.
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It is not useless. As I stated, it alleviates memory bandwidth as a bottleneck thus increasing the minimum frame rates in some games. It may not effect your average frame rate, but average doesn't tell the whole picture - 30 fps and 90 fps average out to 60, but won't more for a smooth or pleasant experience.
Benchmarks that look at 1% minimum frame rates - or, better yet, 1% maximum frame times - have found that increasing memory speed up to 3200MHz has a noticeable impact on improving those 1% spikes, resulting in a smoother gaming experience. It scales with whatever CPU / GPU you pair with the memory.
And the higher latency is more than made up for by the faster memory speed. By all means, get the lowest latency at a given speed / price point that you can, but latency no longer has the impact it once did.
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That is, assuming that his computer isn't capable of already running games at the smoothest possible way, since we're still talking about a 8700k and (i presume) at least a 1080. When RAM speed will become a bottleneck other components will be long uncapable or running smoothly at 60 fps anyway. The extra cost of faster RAM can be better spent on a bigger SSD or a more efficient cooling system. Hell, i can get two extra Noctua fans with the price difference of a good G.Skill sticks.
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I think you misunderstood what I wrote. The benchmarks looking at memory speed impact on 1% spikes in framerate and frametime found that memory speed was causing a bottleneck. That bottleneck is not removed when you pair the memory with a faster CPU and GPU, if anything it makes the bottleneck worse.
There were times when slower memory could not keep up with the CPU and GPU, causing a drop in framerate that manifested as stuttering in the game. It only happened occasionally, but it was responsible for the worst drops in framerate. If you increase the speed of the CPU and GPU, that just makes it harder for slower memory to keep up and makes those drops more jarring.
By buying slower memory than 3200MHz, you are creating a memory bandwidth bottleneck in your system that will negatively impact the perceived smoothness of your games. I know memory is expensive right now, it's unfortunate, but it would also be unfortunate to create a bottleneck if you can afford not to - particularly if you're building a high-end system with an i7 and GTX 1080.
It's the same reason I recommend everyone get 16GB of RAM if they can afford it, it removes memory capacity as a bottleneck. There are already games that use more than 8GB of RAM or where performance suffers with only 8GB (Forza Horizon 3, Horizon 4, Just Cause 3, Assetto Corsa Competizione), and it's only going to get worse going forward as games continue to get bigger.
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16GB of DDR4 ram at any speed will be fine, and any modern Intel CPU with at least 4 cores should also be fine.
Your budget should mostly go toward a good video card (GPU) and decent size SSD (if you don't already own one).
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Agree. Buying a PCIe NVMe with the unit but have a SATA SSD already so will be fast enough there.
GPU wise i will be using my current Nvidia 760 until the new cards come out and i see what happens to pricing. A 1070 will likely suit my needs and hope the price falls but nobody knows at the moment. New cards are out in the next week so will wait and see ;)
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Hi All
Just wanted to say a big thank you for all the advice. I have one more question around the OS.
The PC will come with Windows Home Trial version. I will purchase a Windows 10 Pro key.
Should i activate the Home trial and then update to Pro or should i do a fresh install?
My knowledge on Windows 10 is not great.
Thanks
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IMO, it doesn't matter if you upgrade from Home Trial to Pro, I guess you just need to put in the new serial key in the Activation settings of Win 10. If your internet speed is up to it a fresh install won't do you any harm too.
Personally speaking, I upgraded from Win 7 to Win 10 during July 2015 & have been updating my OS since, never got around to do a fresh install myself. One thing I do is run a full system scan every month, takes around a day & defrag my drive every quarter, without fail, takes around a weekend to get it done, mainly due it's 6TB (2+4) size.
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Better safe than sorry imo. MIcrosoft doesn't have great history of upgrading OS. Often old files are left somewhere and in rare occasion impact performance of new one.
Since youre not going to have any personal data I suggest doing fresh install, including removing all partitions so Win can create his own.
I am assuming you are going for separate physical OS drive and data drives? ;)
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New PC comes with NVMe drive, there will be no data i need on it. I hve some other drives with data on so will not be effected.
This was what i was thinking however i'm not familiar with Win10 and wondered if Home and Pro were the exact same but with added benefits
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Why dont you pick a ryzen cpu? they are much cheaper than an i7 and an i5 wont be enough for the next few years.
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Its just always good to not support the monopoly as if there wasnt ryzen the last 2 years intel would still sell the same old 4 cores 4 thread cpus as brand new. But yeah i know how you feel with the i7 as i also had one that kept me for more than 8 years and is still working.
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Hi All
Buying a new PC. Motherboard is a Gigabyte Z370 Aorus Ultra Gaming. I have two questions on trying to decide parts:
i5 8600k or i7 8700k? Edging towards i7 for future proofing. Not many games make use of it currently but they may soon.
DDR4 16GB @ 2666mhz or 3000mhz?
Will have water cooling.
Opinions appreciated. Cheers
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