Will you sign this?
Comment has been collapsed.
I do, i can only imagine what valve as in store for us in the future.
Its not my money, but it bothers me when people give their money thinking its helping modders when in fact 75% is going to valve
petitions won't help though
Comment has been collapsed.
Best way to get shit done is to do the following:
Comment has been collapsed.
A legal shitstorm is more likely to cause change changes than a petition and judging by how the current ToS is laid out in regards to monetised workshop mods, it is downright sloppy if not illegal. Way it reads right now is as though content creators have no hold over their content and can be reuploaded by anyone for profit since it does not care about who that uploader is; however if the content is trademarked elsewhere (eg Nexus) and uploaded without the owners permission they can legally take Valve to court for compensation.
TL;DR Valve is just screaming out SUE ME right now.
Comment has been collapsed.
Does not define who owns it but as far as it can be argued in law, Valve is claiming ownership.
Comment has been collapsed.
Well way it's set out now is that a modder will not receive any money until their mod sells $400 worth, which they will only earn $100. But if they don't earn that amount Valve keeps it all. There's a lawsuit waiting to happen there. It just takes one greedy publisher to back one person who stole a "free" mod and sells it for lawyers to come banging.
Comment has been collapsed.
This doesn't hurt Valve, this hurts the individuals who didn't know the law. This is malicious and you should really reconsider what you're doing before you hurt somebody who is doing nothing wrong just because you don't agree with them. Like this is literally messed up and you need to stop no joke.
Comment has been collapsed.
Actually stealing someone elses IP and selling it as your own is against the law. If a person copies someone elses work and sells it as their own they are no doubt blatantaly aware of the consequences. This is the issue that I've highlighted is going to arise, the legal can of worms unleashed when people start willingly infringing copyright. Whether it be content from a big publisher or some guy who has released something for free, if their work has been stolen and sold without their permission they are entitled to compensation as per the law.
Comment has been collapsed.
5K signatures over the span of 4 hours. I'm impressed.
Comment has been collapsed.
I'm still not caught up with this so can someone just answer me this? Is it now MANDATORY for a mod creator to charge for it or it's in his/her personal discretion to put a price tag if he/she wants?
Cause personally there's a few mods out there that I'd gladly pay some $ to get, if only just to show my appreciation for the effort gone in those(Inigo companion, Arissa Companion, Falskaar, Wyrmstooth etc. that are REALLY well made mods with quite some content) and I feel their creators are fully entitled to that for such high quality work(although some are already overcharging). However I wouldn't pay a cent for some of the "easy" ones like Generic Companions with no original voice acting and storyline, ENBs and such
Comment has been collapsed.
//TOS ASSAULT INBOUND//
Supplemental Workshop Terms – Revenue Sharing
These Supplemental Workshop Terms supplement the terms set out in the Steam Subscriber Agreement. They address how revenue will be shared for any Contributions for which a fee is charged.
Revenue Share for Paid Distribution of Contributions. If your Contribution is distributed for a fee (whether in-Application or via the Steam Workshop), you may be entitled to receive a portion of the Adjusted Gross Revenue (as defined below) that is collected for the Contribution. The percentage of Adjusted Gross Revenue that you are entitled to receive will be determined by the developer/publisher of the Application associated with the Workshop to which you have submitted your Contribution (“Publisher”), and will be described on the applicable Workshop page. Valve will remit payment of any revenue share to which you are entitled in accordance with directions from the applicable Publisher, and in accordance with Valve’s payment procedures. Generally, payment is made thirty (30) days from the end of the calendar month in which the Adjusted Gross Revenue was received. For reasons of fraud protection, no payment is made earlier than ninety (90) days after the initial copy of a Contribution is distributed. For available payment methods and associated minimum transfer amounts, please see the FAQ page.
These definitions apply to this Section 1.
"Adjusted Gross Revenue" means gross revenue actually received by Valve from the distribution of copies of the Contribution, less the Applicable Adjustments (defined below).
"Applicable Adjustments" means (a) returns, discounts, refunds, fraud or chargebacks; and (b) Customer Taxes (defined below), if and only to the extent that Customer Taxes have been included in the calculation of gross revenue earned.
“Customer Taxes” means taxes that are imposed on a customer of Valve with respect to the distribution, sale or license of copies of the Contribution (for example, sales, use, excise, value-added and other similar taxes) and that are received from the customer by Valve.
Setting Prices. The Publisher will have the ultimate discretion to determine the suggested retail price for your Contribution. In the case of Contributions distributed directly via the Steam Workshop, Valve and/or the Publisher may choose to offer you price categories from which you can choose a suggested retail price for your Contribution. In the case of in-Application distribution, the Valve and/or the Publisher may choose to distribute your Contribution for free, or to cease charging a fee for (or reduce the price for) a Contribution previously distributed for a fee. You will not be entitled to any compensation for Contributions distributed for free.
Taxes. Valve requires you to provide certain information and to complete certain tax forms in order to receive payment. If Valve determines, in good faith, that a tax could be imposed on Valve’s payments to you, Valve may withhold any amounts required to be withheld under applicable law and remit those amounts to the relevant taxing authority. You are responsible for paying any other taxes due on amounts Valve pays to you.
Group Contributions. You may submit a Contribution to which others besides you have contributed (a “Group Contribution”). You must identify all other contributors (“Contributors”) in the submission webform, provide their names and contact information, and specify revenue split percentages among the Contributors. Valve will contact the identified Contributors. All Contributors must agree to the application of these Supplemental Workshop Terms to the Group Contribution, confirm their personal information, and agree to the specified revenue split before any payments can be made to any Contributor. Valve will then remit amounts due under Section 1 to each Contributor in accordance with the revenue split percentages specified and approved by you and the other Contributors.
Bundling. In the case of in-Application distributions, the Publisher may bundle your Contribution with other Contributions and/or Publisher’s own materials. If the bundle is distributed for a fee, Valve and/or the Publisher will apportion the Adjusted Gross Revenue to each of the components making up the bundle in its sole discretion. The portion attributed to a Group Contribution included in a bundle will be divided among the Contributors pursuant to Section 4.
Indirect Distributions of Contributions. Valve or the Publisher may charge a fee for the right or chance to later obtain one or more Contributions (for example, the sale of a “key” that can be used to unlock a crate containing a set of content). In cases such as these, where a fee is charged indirectly for the ability to acquire content, Valve and/or the Publisher may determine what revenue share will be paid for any Contributions that are ultimately distributed, and how such revenue share will be allocated amongst multiple Contributors, in its sole discretion.
Revenue Share on Fees Collected on Secondary Sales. In cases where your Contribution is capable of being sold by Steam Subscribers in the Steam Community Market, Valve or the Publisher may choose to share a portion of any game fee, if any, they receive in connection with such secondary sales. The applicable Workshop page may provide information about potential revenue sharing in this case.
Sales Data. Valve may provide you with access (via web site or otherwise) to Steam data relating to sales of your Contribution(s) (“Sales Data”). Sales Data is provided for your personal use, and you agree to keep that data confidential.
Comment has been collapsed.
"The Publisher will have the ultimate discretion to determine the suggested retail price for your Contribution. In the case of Contributions distributed directly via the Steam Workshop, Valve and/or the Publisher may choose to offer you price categories from which you can choose a suggested retail price for your Contribution."
Doesn't really answer it I think but then again I don't speak legal talk :P
Do they give a set number of "suggested" prices where you have to pick one of those or do they just actually suggest and leave it up to you to set it even at 0?
Comment has been collapsed.
So a simple texture mod for example can only go only as low as $0.49?! Yup, that would be stupid. I understand giving the OPTION to charge for it since some of these modders deserve it(which again I wouldn't personally buy through the workshop but simply donate to them so Valve won't be getting anything) but not for everything. Just hope this won't kill Nexus and other modding sites :\
Comment has been collapsed.
The scariest scenario is that; you'll get someone who puts their content on Workshop for free, find someone steals it and makes a profit out of it, the owner complains and is dismissed as the publisher doesn't make money out of free content.
This is all going to end in tears for Valve.
Comment has been collapsed.
The whole thing is written rather sloppy by Valve and as soon as lawyers peer over it, it's going to cause hell. I'll do a quick Q&A.
Q. Is it mandatory to charge for mods?
A. No, although there is incentive to do so.
Q. Who can put mods on workshop?
A. Anyone, they can even upload and charge for other people's mods. Currently Valve does not state clearly who "owns" the mod suggesting that noone owns it and instead it's "shared". Significant ambiguity.
Q. Why is there censorship of critcism?
A. Valve has a right to censor their forums as they see fit. However overzealous censorship especially in the face of valid and fair critcism leads to negative press.
Q. What percentage does Valve take?
A. 75% of all earnings apparently. Not until you sell $400 worth of content will you receive any money. However again there is significant ambiguity.
Q. Is what Valve doing legal?
A. Currently difficult to say as there is significant ambiguity in the current ToS, however there will most definitely be issues raised in a court in regards to copyright of some content or another.
Comment has been collapsed.
Thanks for the clarifications, they were very helpful. Glad to hear that it's not mandatory but I apparently had the income percentages reversed and thought Valve got the 25%. If it really is 75% it's absurd and just infuriating! I sure hope everyone boycotts it and just find the mods they want from other sources and donate to their creators!
Comment has been collapsed.
Well it says that the item curator receives a 25% share so must mean Valve (and to be fair publisher) take 75%. Doesn't need a boycott. Needs a lawsuit. Valve has stepped heavily over the line with this.
EDIT: Was going to update with sources but the thread I got the $400 from (had a dev response) got deleted. :/ Therefore take that with a grain of salt. Rest of info you can take from their Workshop ToS.
Comment has been collapsed.
I don't really understand why is that even an issue. People will get paid for the time they put into their mods, seems fair. Don't like certain mods? Don't buy them. Like a mod? Buy it. Don't act entitled.
Edit: After getting to know that Valve gets 75% and that unless you sell 400$ worth of mods you get nothing I revoke what I had written above. This is a truly disturbing and greedy move from Valve. I don't like it at all.
Comment has been collapsed.
It isn't that, it is that people's mods will either:
A) Get Pirated, leaving the creator with no credit
B) Be really good, but the creator gets a couple cents each month because Valve gets 75% (And can change that number at any time)
C) Be someone else's, just changed a little, and the original maker gets nothing.
I just wish that Valve would add a donate button.
Comment has been collapsed.
Or implement a better system, if you have a pirated mod it disables it and asks you to buy it. So the first point is moot. The second point I agree with 100% the creators deserve the 70% not Valve and Bethesda- but I bet Bethesda will fight to their grave to keep it that high... There is a screening process before content gets added and as they've demonstrated in the past will deduct ALL PROFITS garnered from illegal submissions and return them to payers or to charity/the true creator.
So basically the system is fine right now and skepticism is running hot. That's good but people need to chill out and start advocating for mod creator's rights not get angry for no good reason. Unite around good ideas not malicious ones.
Comment has been collapsed.
From a reply I got above:
"Q. What percentage does Valve take?
A. 75% of all earnings apparently. Not until you sell $400 worth of content will you receive any money. However again there is significant ambiguity."
THAT is a good enough reason for it to be an issue(even though I don't see many people actually mentioning this). So no, people don't get paid for their effort and time but instead get ripped off by a distribution platform and MAYBE get some change for it. If the Lion's share was going to the modders that'd be a different story and I'd be with you.
Comment has been collapsed.
Wow, that fucking sucks. I didn't know that. They're becoming so greedy nowadays... I don't like the direction in which they're heading.
Comment has been collapsed.
I don't care. I hate mods. Most of them just ruining the game. Mods for any GTA is my nightmare. I was hoping, Rockstar will never release GTA V on PC, but it was unlikely...
Anyway, you don't need any petitions, Valve will not care. If no one will buy mods, maybe they change something
How many idiots on this planet? I'd say, too many, so this not gonna happen...
Comment has been collapsed.
That petition is quite badly worded and extremely futile like all petitions on that website. It gives no real, practical reasoning as to why paid mods are bad. "Cuz we want them to be free" is not a reason.
(To be honest if it went into the legal issues with paid mods, I still wouldn't sign it since I don't care, but still, this petition is so crap that I find it hard to take it seriously. :P )
Comment has been collapsed.
it's not even a week yet....
ill just wait and see
Comment has been collapsed.
Pay for your mod's and stop moaning.
If you don't like it create your own.
There is 9000 thousand of you, surely when you're not wasting time playing free mod's all 9000 thousand of you can group together and make something shit that nobody wants.
As Ekaros has already said "The market will correct itself eventually... And it's not like every mod will be paid one..."
If anything it is the best thing that has happened for the modding community, shame that 9000 thousand people don't realise it.
Comment has been collapsed.
"If anything it is the best thing that has happened for the modding community"
So the best thing a modder can hope for is sell his mods for 25% of their "retail" price while 75% of the income goes to the Valve and Bethesda sharks? My objection isn't in paying for a mod, I've personally donated to quite a few modders who I felt did an excelent job but I do not accept the ridiculous rates in this "move". It is the WORST thing for modders, not the best since now they're just being taken advantage of.
Comment has been collapsed.
Yes of course it is the best thing for the community. It creates competition, competition over quality of future mod's and their respective pricing.
Yes I hear you, the cut Valve takes is pretty ridiculous for simply just providing a platform from which a modder can make money from for the hard work they do. But this is the only negative I see from this apart from this silly backlash from the modding community who believe a donation button is all a modder needs, BULLSHIT.
You have a choice. You either pay for content or you don't. However you decide, you will be voting with your money.
Some of us, or should I say most of us see the bigger picture.
I fully understand when a community that has for a long time been spoilt for choice with free mod after free mod throwing their toys out of their pram like the spoilt children they are.
Nevertheless I still agree there needs to be a platform that serves the modder and their customers fairly over inflated and greedy demands Valve puts on their expected revenue.
You see dude it is easy saying you have at times donated to a great mod that you really like, but really, how many of you actually do.
Comment has been collapsed.
I don't know what others do and quite frankly I don't care. If they don't donate even when they get content worthy of being an independent DLC then they're just idiots. But the way this is going is plain wrong. As you said IF there was a different platform where modders would be treated right and the content was for sale at understandable rates from which most go to the modder I'd be all for it. But not this ridiculous attempt from Valve to raise it's revenue for doing practically nothing and taking advantage of the ones that do.
And yeah we're all "voting" with our money and personally I haven't and won't EVER buy a mod through the workshop. I'd gladly go get it from Nexus and donate to it's creator if it proves to be a good one but Valve isn't seeing a single cent from me for this.
As for who sees the bigger picture allow me to have my own opinion about it :P
Comment has been collapsed.
As I have already said Valve's cut is ridiculous but I can't help but notice that this petition is set around entitlement, entitlement that this upset part of the community believe that modding is a hobby and should be free. This petition even states "Mods should be a free creation. Creations made by people who wish to add to the game so others can also enjoy said creation with the game." and "The workshop is a place for people to share content with each other they made so all can enjoy it for free." I couldn't disagree any less.
If the petition had an air of intelligence about it I would have signed it already but I truly believe modders should be rewarded.
The most successful of businesses would intelligently adjust an affordable pricing system that creates the most yield in sales while re-investing into the source that created the wealth.
Right now it seems as though this current system is forcing mod's to become expensive which will ultimately end with the have and the have nots, splitting the community into an ugly class system for the rich and the poor. There has to be a breaking point somewhere so this current system is born to fail.
Obviously there should be a price cap of maybe a couple of dollars per mod or even a price capped tier system based on how much content is included. Maybe even a pre-release community vote based on pricing for a particular mod.
There are plenty of fair ways to look at this.
That being said you can always make do with Nexus mods and that is great, but hopefully somewhere in the near future you will like to and hopefully have no problem in supporting a modder on Steam Workshop for creating something innovative and hopefully affordable without ever having to feed the beast that is Valve Corp.
From what I gather Bethesda also get a cut, not entirely sure if this is true, a friend mentioned it to me yesterday.
All will be good in the end hopefully, with much emphasis on the word hopefully.
Comment has been collapsed.
Why everyone , his mother and their disabled dogs are losing their minds over that ?
As bad as you are trying to make it look , its not really that bad of a thing.
In time it may actually prove to have been for the better.
So calm your tities please.
Comment has been collapsed.
signed it. my full comment can be seen on the petition site
Comment has been collapsed.
254 Comments - Last post 12 minutes ago by JohnRyder
15,458 Comments - Last post 42 minutes ago by sviat
45 Comments - Last post 1 hour ago by Loukno
1,167 Comments - Last post 2 hours ago by Southrobin
24 Comments - Last post 2 hours ago by Raggart
21 Comments - Last post 2 hours ago by WellKnownPlayer
3,120 Comments - Last post 5 hours ago by CommissarCiaphasCain
102 Comments - Last post 5 seconds ago by AndyFrost
52 Comments - Last post 7 minutes ago by Almostn33t
2 Comments - Last post 15 minutes ago by Lugum
79 Comments - Last post 37 minutes ago by Raggart
5,751 Comments - Last post 47 minutes ago by Oppenh4imer
787 Comments - Last post 1 hour ago by loopers
219 Comments - Last post 1 hour ago by Si9a
https://www.change.org/p/valve-remove-the-paid-content-of-the-steam-workshop
Edit: 10,000 People have signed this in 7 hours!?!?
Comment has been collapsed.