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Umm I don't get it. What does this guy have to do with Casti?
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrongful execution#United_States
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the innocent ones always escape by tunneling through a poster into a sewer. (its like trial by combat where the old gods ensure the correct outcome and strengthen the innocent's arm or buffing the righteous tool of justice accordingly) they are given plenty of time for this to happen while on queue
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With excelent evidence we can. + We will be feeding him and helping him survive ,as we , tax payers , pay for prisons , their food and whatnot...
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prisoners are expensive to feed, and if they're never getting out anyway why keep them?
death penalty is only when you're absolutely sure and they spend decades on death row with dozens of appeals anyway so theres plenty of time to be sure(by the time they'd actually get executed they'd lost most of their lives in prison anyway)
all keeping them does is take up space provide extra prison jobs for the economy, ensure theres a guy with nothing to lose around when pedos need raping, (and kill them slower so people can feel better about themselves)
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better than norway, their maximum sentence is 20 years no matter how horrible. Everybody can be rehabilitated, and for the times they can't a few lives from a national scale are small price to know you gave somebody a second chance to prove you're civilized. Its not like the monster has infinite lifespan, they've got maybe 70 good years in them when they're strong enough to be horrible and at 20 years a pop thats only 6 strikes before he's done. rape 30 children 21 years as long as you don't get caught in the middle they get lumped together.
well only a small fraction serve more than 2/3(14 years) before early release. but even so the chances run out sometime and he probably didn't start raping and burning as a child nor continue as an octogenarian
and technically they reserve the option of extending your sentence every 5 years by 5 years(basically by a short hearing, not a jury thing, anybody can have the 5 years tacked on by the government it doesn't come up in the sentencing) and some people have been life imprisoned(like the child molester I mentioned) but in a way that looks better on paper so they get to feel good about not having our 'draconian legal system that takes a man's life away for a single mistake'
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Maximum sentence is 20 years, but it can be extended if the prisoner is still deemed a danger.
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thats just a hypocritical way of sneaking in life in prison while not appearing to do so. its so much less phony to just kill the guy and be done with it than pretend you'll ever let him out, worse that they even set the date close enough to give hope.
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I'm against it. Even if I'm not okay with we paying their living, I think that no one deserves to die. Put them to work, that's all that is needed. Bloodbaths only make things worse. They ALWAYS make things worse.
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I'm ashamed to admit it, but it'd probably I'd watch that..
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double down and have them eat the loser to cut down on feeding bills and make them fiercer for the televised fights. its an old dog fighting trick that has served me well in pokemon, (you might even make a profit and pay off some of the deficit. only worry then is making sure the politicians don't get a taste for it and start making laws or trumping up charges to keep the arena going. like rome)
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I'll stand with agree with it:
assuming that the conviction is correct and is in-line with the law of the sovereign.
1) Killing deprives the future value of a human being.
2) There's no more value or very little of the convict's future
3) Killing them through death penalty is permissible
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How do you assume the conviction is correct?
Is the law (of the sovereign or whoever made it) justice?
It was in-line with the laws of Nazi Germany back in the days to execute many people for different reasons but all was "in-line" with the law. Justice?
Everyone can come up with cases where they would like to see someone dead, but mistakes are made by judges. Id rather see life sentences than death penalty. As for the question who is to pay for the jail and the system? Let the convicted people work for their living for all I care.
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An assumption like that makes the discussion pointless. I was merely pointing out how your assumption leads to being against the death penalty in the actual world. In a utopian world where your assumption is true you might be right, yet it is irrelevant.
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If you cannot argue with my set of premises without saying that the assumption is false, then there nothing to discuss.
If you want to break the assumption, then contradict it. Do not start questioning the initial assumption then stating your premises.
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If your assumption is incorrect, it invalidates the rest of your argument...
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Fine, I'll play ball with you. Assuming absolutely perfect courts and convictions, your second statement is still incorrect. There is value in the rest of the convicts life, if, for example, we have the prisoner perform forced labor.
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Or if the sentence isn't for rest of the life. Let's say someone in 30s get's 20 year sentence. Serves it in full. He then have left good 10-20 years of working from which society can receive taxes...
Humans ins western countries aren't exactly cheap...
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Is it really worth it though? I doubt it.
Can the value of forced labor done by the prisoner outweighs the things being provided to him? (food, shelter, medical assistance) and we're still not counting the value that he has deprived his victim with.
I estimate that even if he would do force labor for life, he would still not outweighs the crime he has done + the services being provided to him.
Maybe if the forced labor that a prisoner is doing a high tier job then we could probably say that he would outweigh those, but can you trust him with it doing a high tier job? Usually convicted people has no proper or high education finished.
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If you are going by purely economic reasons, it would actually be better to not imprison the convicts at all!
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Wow, california's system is actually really broken
Taxpayers have spent billions of dollars over the last thirty-four years to fund the state’s broken system, which has resulted in only thirteen executions.
I'm not a lawyer so I'm not gonna touch on how many absurd ways a condemned man in murica can appeal. But this actually strengthen my claims. How would a condemned man repay those already mentioned costs for housing him plus the addition free services of appealing many times to their case (also maybe layers, not sure about this) with only forced labor?
Might as well execute them ASAP, also as stated in the article:
if the state starts carrying out executions more quickly, the death penalty will not be as costly to
taxpayers
Also your last statement, that's easy to refute through contraposition.
I can rephrase your sentence: If you are going by purely economic reasons, it would actually be worse to imprison the convicts at all!
Just think all the consequences if those monsters are released in the public creating havoc.
You remove the jail and correction system costs at what price? I'm not gonna list them but I'm sure you can imagine how it is much worse for the whole country.
P.S: I have 0 knowledge that capital punishment is this slow in US, or murica is just a special place for them.
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I'm going entirely on how capital punishment is performed in the US. You never stated a perfect execution system, so I'm going with money wasted on multiple rounds of appeals, lethal injection drug cocktails, hiring expert witnesses, etc.
If you cannot accept my assumption to be correct, then we can't have a meaningful discussion.
As to your rephrasal of my sentence: yup, I totally agree with you. You said almost exactly what I said, only with slightly different wording (and bad grammar).
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1) If you can say it, why can't I say it? You said I have to accept that the conviction is correct, so you should accepts that appeals are allowed.
2) Yes, that is correct. I believe the "at all" you included at the end is grammatically incorrect. Then again, I'm not an English professor.
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yes, but why say it again? Did I specifically said that I can't accept your assumption? I was under the impression that you were taking offense that I was taking your assumption (which you didn't say explicitly) as false.
What I can see here is you're being too defensive that you needed to invoke that statement.
Second "at all" came from your initial statement, so If you're going to accuse me of wrong grammar, then it stems from your sentence since I just used logic to rephrase the sentence.
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False. Forced labor would never happen. It would be considered inhumane by the liberals and hippies.
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To quote MDuh:
"If you cannot argue with my set of premises without saying that the assumption is false, then there nothing to discuss."
We're not even having a logical discussion here, so it doesn't matter :P
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I'm much more sinister than most, so of course I say I am against it. Why waste a bunch of perfectly good humans that we can do experiments on to further help medical science? Additionally, we could make them do labor as well. This also helps preventing killing innocent people. I would rather work in a labor camp for a few years to then get released than to just be killed immediately... That is just me, though.
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That's actually a solid idea.
(either that, or i'm equally screwed up, in any case, high five!)
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You miscomprehended my poorly written post (my bad). I meant to say that if someone turned out innocent, they would just get released. However, if it is someone that deserves life in prison, or worse, would otherwise be given a death sentence, I am saying they should work for life as a labor worker (or slave).
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I'm a firm supporter of assuming one's responsability for your acts.
Let's say someone broke into someone's house, and kills a member of the family while at it. He gets caught later.
He gets an optional sentence, this option depends on the direct relative: Were he to choose death to the killer, that person will be given a gun, and will, under supervision, shoot and kill the original killer. Also, were he to do such thing, he would undergo the same process the original killer has gone through, including that last situation.
Now, were he to choose a lifetime sentence in prison/reclusion/whatever-makes-him-reconsider-his-acts/he-does-something-valuable-for-society, he would do so; no lenients, no reduction of the sentence, no visitors.
Of course, these options would apply in an optimal situation where penitenciary systems and justice works efficiently no matter the country.
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What happens if you decide to shoot the guy and he was later found to be innocent. What then? You basically committed murder yourself. There have been stories of individuals getting falsely accused and convicted but new DNA sequencing technology proving innocence. These are rare but think about it. Mistakes happen. Could you live with yourself if you later found out you shot an innocent person? Plus, who would pay for compensation for the innocent party's family? The government? Who would pay for that? Taxpayers.
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Then the process repeats itself, as mentioned previously.
(remember this is based off a utopic system where mistakes would come only from our judgement).
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I see valid arguments for both sides so I have no strong opinion about it. Like others have said, I believe death is the only reasonable recourse for a malicious convicted criminal but then again, the justice system is heavily manipulated and error-prone so one may be convicting a completely innocent individual to death! Jail allows the legal system time to iron out any mistakes and release a falsely convicted criminal.
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I'm up for it. No point keeping some people alive in prison.
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thats now how survival of the fittest works, it applies to species wherby the superiors species survives, youve got good reason to protect those you share a blood relationship with and humans are smart enough to know helping other members of our species can have desirable results for us an individual
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i'm for it. i also believe that if a criminal has been sentenced to death, he / she should not have to wait in prison for years for it to be carried out.
killing a criminal worthy of death saves money, as the taxpayer no longer has to pay for food and utilities to keep him alive.
it also ensures this criminal will never commit the crime again, and deters others from doing the same thing.
as long as they make sure that the criminal is guilty and not framed or something, i'm all for the death penalty.
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I'm against it, as a matter of principle. Not only am I not a fan of "an eye for an eye" arguments, but any justice system is inevitably faulty, and I would rather let a really terrible human being live than sentence a innocent people to death "just to be sure".
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Why are you for it or against it?
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