Apparently 'Indie" has become a term for unfinished crappy games instead of what it should actually mean, small developers making great games with little to no funds or advertisements that big companies have. They would give you that joy of discovering them and thinking wow, what a gem this is.

Now we get things like https://store.steampowered.com/app/1233120/ in 2020 or plenty of -PIXEL GAMES- that call themselves "roguelite" or "roguelike" which translates to "I couldn't finish the game out of lack of inspiration, money, etc so have it this way and we'll make up a term for this unfinished mess". Shouldn't this stop already? I've stopped adding garbage games to my library a while back, and I somehow wish I'd have removed all the other trash in there. I've hidden them using the option, but I was thinking to write Steam support about removing them, only that I have 1000+ games.
Still little compared to other 'collectors' of 5k+ games, but it really makes no sense just to buy some games that you'd never play and clog your library
We should stop giving these developers money, how many 'early access' games have we seen abandoned which were also 'indie' just so the devs could run off with the money?
Stop blindly give in to fake trailers or promises and to consumerism or that hoarding impulse. The industry won't try to improve if we give them the message that it's fine to put out crap games since we'll buy them anyway. It's only a loss for us gamers, either way, while they're making money off easy and sloppy work with little to no effort.

TL;DR
If my op wasn't clear enough, let me rephrase it:
Nowadays, lazy developers put out buggy, incomplete games under the tag of "indie" as that's some sort of excuse for the games being bad, instead of the developers themselves being bad because they didn't put enough effort into the game. As opposed to few years ago, when Indie meant games like Bastion for example, quality games made by small companies. And same goes for Early Access lately

3 years ago*

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I don't think these trash games get much sales outside of really cheap bundles, and I doubt they make much money from that.
The thing that would work better than trying to not buy the trash, is actually buying the good games at a decent price, instead of always expecting them to be in a dollarbundle.

3 years ago
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Since when did "Indie" become the definition of trash games?

You're the one defining it. Indie just means independent, with a small group of people who made it. I don't know why you would consider the word indie to mean trash. Just because anyone can "make a game", doesn't suddenly mean the word indie has changed in meaning. Indie isn't a genre.

EDIT: Nevermind, I just realised this was a troll post. but I'll let my comment stand.

3 years ago
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or plenty of -PIXEL GAMES- that call themselves "roguelite" or "roguelike" which translates to "I couldn't finish the game out of lack of inspiration, money, etc

Well, one man's trash is another man's treasure. There are lots of good pixelart roguelites out there. I personally am not a big fan. But you have to admit that games like Dead Cells or Rogue Legacy are pretty good and absolutely no trash. Or my personal roguelite favorite: FTL.

3 years ago
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in 2020

Saying that many pixelgames recently end up as lackluster roguelikes =/= all roguelikes from the past decade are bad.
Many devs ended up making shit roguelikes because you can hide the lack of artistic design behind generic pixelart, the lack of design behind (often poorly done) randomization and lack of balance behind claiming it's a hardcore roguelike. There are great roguelikes but they are super rare in the genre because they require insight, thought and originality. The quality gap between a bad and a good roguelike is a lot bigger than in many genre.

3 years ago
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Easier to make games -> more games -> more failures but more good games too :)

3 years ago
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It didn't

3 years ago
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Most of indies ( = not AA or AAA) are bad because made by people who often don't know what they do, and the result is often a cobbled together mess. There are still hundreds if not thousands of good indies, just majority... is what it is.

3 years ago
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I'm still finding way more good or even great indies than I could possibly play, so I'm good with with status of their quality.

3 years ago
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Indie games and trash games are two different things.

3 years ago
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Not all indie are trash, and not all trash are indies. They do have overlap though.

3 years ago
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Yep, so to summarize:
"Indie" has NOT become a term for unfinished crappy games, they are still what it means, small developers making games with little to no funds or advertisements that big companies have. What the developers does and make is another thing. To put it in context, it's like two students doing a school project, the first one chooses to just do it with little to no effort and just call it a day, but the second one actually putting time and effort in it, the results shows. Maybe now, more and more people are being like the first one, and less are like the second. This might be because more and more people have access to game creation, and we people want to get money with as little effort as possible. so that's why these "trash games" exists. But ngl, there are some "trash games" that does actually have a lot of effort put in it, but was hated by the majority.

3 years ago
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If my op wasn't clear enough, let me rephrase it:
Nowadays, lazy developers put out buggy, incomplete games under the tag of "indie" as that's some sort of excuse for the games being bad, instead of the developers themselves being bad because they didn't put enough effort into the game. As opposed to few years ago, when Indie meant games like Bastion for example, quality games made by small companies. And same goes for Early Access lately

3 years ago
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The number of games which abuse the term pixel, roguelike, lite and indie far outweigh the good ones.

3 years ago
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Plenty of non indies and even AAA games are trash.
Its a consequence of turning this business more approachable for any aspiring developers
its easier to develop and distribute their titles, even on console, it has become a quantity over quality situation on steam. There are more great indies right now then there as ever been, but as a consequence there is a lot more garbage that you need to scroll by in order to reach the good stuff.
As for the AAA market, there is a trend of making accessible base products, that require either time and or money on the long run.
we see less linear games, but at the cost of a less focused and less detailed experience. Usually with a lot of unnecessary grind and pointless sidequests.

3 years ago
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Yeah this sums up my feelings on it pretty well.
I think a bigger problem for developers making indie games, is not the trash games stealing a few sales, but rather the other equally good and interesting indie games out there. The ease of creation has meant the industry has boomed, but the consumer base hasn't grown to match. And so you have some pretty amazing games that just haven't sold much.

3 years ago
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3 years ago*
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I came to this flase notion as soon as Steam Greenlight fell. That's when my Indie world became trash.

3 years ago
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I don't know about you, but I'm finding more "indie gems" than ever, and finding myself quickly lacking the time to play them. In fact, I find myself playing more indie games than I do AAA games, simply for the fact that Indie devs tend to take more risks and try new things, as opposed to the cookie cutter sequels or copies of popular AAA games we've been getting for years.

You kinda nailed things (in not so many words) with the whole "speak with your wallet" thing, though. If you don't like a game, don't buy it. If a bundle is trash to you, don't buy it. If you happen to buy a bad game, review it negatively. That's really the only way to get through to anyone - publishers, developers, and gaming client - and it also tells other potential customers to take a pass.

3 years ago
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Sturgeon's Law. 90% of anything is shit. Movies, literature, fast food, games of any genre/publisher status (indie and AAA alike). Honestly, I'm kind of surprised that "only buy things that are good/worth it" comes as some sort of revelation.

3 years ago
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Since they pump out 900 platformers a year? Copy and paste

3 years ago
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It's a simple matter of quantity; there are more of them, and so there are more that are garbage. That's not to say that the ratio of garbage to gem is higher; just that the actual pile of garbage is larger. I think most "AAA" games are overpriced trash, too, but people still worship the ground that they walk on; they're the overpaid celebrities of the video game world.

3 years ago
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Indie never was indicator of quality. Just being different from your big publisher mass market junkfood games. See Ubisoft open world titles...

It just used to be that the selection presented on big market places was much smaller. See itchio.io and the rest. Not that it is a bad thing as we can see with Fortix and Bad Rats, though the standard has fallen even from there...

3 years ago
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I'm not sure what your expectations are. One of the defining aspects of the term 'indie' is that there's a low barrier to entry, so there will be a lot of crap as a matter of course. It's like any other art form... a lot of people suck at it, especially when they're just starting out, but why would you argue about that? Self-published books are the same way with terrible writing and glorified fan fiction, which is exactly what one would expect. If you don't want to dredge through it, wait for word of mouth from people do do. I've rarely ever been disappointed with my early access or indie purchases, personally.

3 years ago*
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I think lower barriers are good even if they do result in a lot of trash,
You have the collective mind of the Internet to find gems in the tsunami of games, and you don't have to be trash-sifter if you don't want to,
there's a lot of people who enjoy being the first to review niche games.
Good indies will naturally get more attention than the shovelware.

Steam has already said they aren't really interested in doing curation themselves,
I think profile limited features is a good middle ground, these games are essentially hidden from people using the Steam platform until Steams metric of sales are made.
Nothing separates trash from treasure faster, than asking someone to pay for the game.

3 years ago
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Because Valve have made it clear they don't any quality standards for what can get on steam.

3 years ago
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My feelings exactly.

Have we lowered our standards already?

Itch.io is a major contributor to this problem of over-saturating the market, because I can't tell anymore whether it is genuine, and whether they are actually putting in any effort to be original. Steam has fallen to this too, but they do have considerably higher standards, and some of those games have ended up being removed (whether for the best or not). I feel as burned out as I have with FPS games.

When I find out about them through the giveaway/free games threads, they often come in bulk, bundled in up to hundreds at a time because they want in on it (for whatever reason), and just a glance at them just makes me wonder what the selling point is. Is it really a deal and worth having? I don't want to be picky, but at the same time, it's just beginning to look like a big joke, that I'm passing on a lot of them because of the issue with them also not making it a thing to keep them. I'm just wasting space on downloading things that'll be stuck on the backlog with that as well.

3 years ago
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3 years ago
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That's half the problem. It's just harder to find the good ones just out of the sheer quantity of these types of games. It's not about quality, and that's how we got here.

3 years ago
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The thing about indie was that it was always lower budget games. There are both good and bad games in general and steam greenlight opened the floodgates for both lower quality numbered games. This also allowed for indie developers to introduce new games at a lower cost, some developers took advantage to make and sell good games, while others focused slowly on lower quality and higher quantity. While the number of bad games may have increased as much as 5-10x easily within those newer games released there are hundreds of hidden gems. Steam reviewers are important to seperate the trash from the treasure, and while some reviews are falsified in the long run good games mostly show up with their overwhelmingly positive scores. I personally have no problem with garbage games unless it takes away the chance of a good developer to make a good game or if a good developer just decides to pump out repeats of good games or lower their standards. In the end money talks and if we spend our money on good games it gives the developers more money to make more good games.

3 years ago
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I think its all about Quality Control...there is no such thing anymore.
-We need to go back to proper beta testing, & I mean dedicated teams. Not making us test their games and then ignore our feedback.
-Stop Preorders completely...this is another reason quality has dropped. There is no incentive to release a quality game if we are glad to buy an unfinished product
-Set a hard limit for Early Access...1 year max or make them earn additional early access time or get shut down
-Valve needs their own QA team...and devs will play testing. If the devs know their games will be subjected to a lengthy approval process, at their expense. They will spend more time making a finished product.

3 years ago
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people dont have to buy into early acces if they dont want to

"-Stop Preorders completely...this is another reason quality has dropped. There is no incentive to release a quality game if we are glad to buy an unfinished product""

well people still buy into preorder, meaning that there is obviously a demand for it. With all respect, it feels disingenous to scrap something that isnt illegal and something people seem to happily buy. Now whether or not those games up being actually good, thats a whole different ballpark and everyone has acces to googles and other platforms to decide if they are taking the risk or not. But i dont think people need babysitting with this.

"-Valve needs their own QA team...and devs will play testing. If the devs know their games will be subjected to a lengthy approval process, at their expense. They will spend more time making a finished product."

back in the days when they were playing the gatekeepers, many were complaining that their favorite games didnt got in and so on and so forth. Not that I necessarily disagree with you but its one of those things that easier said than done and would also leave a lot of quality games not passing through whatever criterias the people in charge have..

The thing is with curation (not saying this applies to you but Im saying this on a general scale) , people only seem to like and yearn for curation as long as their personal favorite games still get in. That being said, curation isnt strictly as black or white.

As far as Im concerned, I hardly ever run into straight-up shovelware on Steam, unless i explicitly go look for those (and since i dont search for those and i dont play them, the algorithm isnt trying hard to recommend me said titles.

3 years ago*
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3 years ago
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3 years ago
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They are independent. What else they'll market themselves besides being a small underdog indie dev just trying to make it.

About removing games, you could do it yourself now. No need to wait for steam support to remove it for you (if I'm understanding you correctly)
Although it's tedious to do it one by one (unless you script the process)
https://help.steampowered.com/en/wizard/HelpWithGameIssue/?appid=34900&issueid=123

3 years ago
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