Tl dr.
So much text for a clear rulebreak, and not like anything would change whatsoever.
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I think his income much more than yours. Anyway, it's funny to see it from 6 lvl user about 10 lvl user.
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It's funny to see you talking about levels when your topic is about begging ;P
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If his income is high as you say, why not buying the game and make a giveaway for the key he had?
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That's one of reasons why I opened this discussion. Most english-speaker part of community see just "begging" and regret language barrier, different case (user stopped one step away from begging cause the user didn't begg for a key but asked about presence of it). I guess all parts of our community have "begging hysteria" while anything similiar or close to begging get blacklists, suspension or hate no matter what's really going on. You're able to compare comments here and in original discussion (closed by support). You also able to check comments here.
I understand my "article" is very big but I made structure to transfer my thoughts more effective.
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You're not answering to my point. Honestly your friend should just wait and play games while waiting and you should do the same. A small suspension is just that, there is no need to fret about it, even more if he can afford those games easily.
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What does the level or income has to do with anything?
If you want to defend someone, do so properly.
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I mean, he was actually begging for a key, according to what I read
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He looked for someone with key. If i asked you "have you are car"? This actually mean i'm begging for your car?
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this is ridiculous. everyone understands what and why he asked.
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It's ridiculous to mix meanings, to jump into future that didn't happen yet and which could have different ways.
For example, it's not okay to call police and say "Guy killed someone" if you can see "Dangerous guy". You could call police and say "Here's dangrous man." and your also could add "I worry he could hit somebody".
I hope example was useful.
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Not the same. He asked "have you are car, because i have, but my nephew no". He already mostly explained whole situation. Well, as for me it is strange that user with that high level was so fast punished, as i remember only 5 minutes between his post and post with "suspended" screenshot, but... is that punishment is so hard? Three days and nothing more as i understand? On the contrary, it will be an example for newbies like me that the moderation is unbiased, but very attentive.
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If no one has said it yet, welcome to SG! I hope that you like it here!
If you are not yet a member of Unlucky 7, I think that you qualify for that group.
PS: And since that "if" sounded like a qualifier, let me rephrase it. Welcome to steamgifts--I hope that you like it here!
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Why he asked if someone has a key? I can see only two reasons - begging or trading. Both forbidden here. Don't try to tell me he was "just curious".
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Who knows, but this allow get following answers for me:
- Is where any active deal about this freebie.
- Is where any way to let nephew play game you already own.
- Someone could offer his freebie key (it's popular type of discussion here. It's allowed, so where're no violation again)
- Get extra info about freebie (is it still activiable or region restricted, what were rules of freebie or what did it contain).
Most of those cases were as answers in his disussion.
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All 4 are a horribly far stretches.. none of them logically ties to the original sentence.
How does 1. even make sense ? in what world "does anyone have a key ?" = "is there any deal for it ?"
and 3. still means begging. He asks whether someone has a key with intention of wanting someone to offer him the key ?
That's different from someone randomly dropping a key in discussions.
Edit : Why are you trying so hard to defend some "random" guy on the internet ? Just because you both are Russians ? Or you know the person ? Because I might agree that pulling a suspension for that might be a bit harsh and a reply with "begging is not allowed, delete your comment" would be enough. But your arguments and what you are trying to imply is just so beyond unlogical
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Let me note about your reaction when you'll meet same case with rules, please.
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As I said I believe that comment was begging. As I don't ask for keys on forum a moment like that won't come.
Even IF language barrier was the problem and the idea was misunderstood and he actually didn't intend to beg, with how he worded that sentence, it turned out to be begging and hence he got suspended. Rule was broken, lesson learned - check twice what you are posting.
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The fact of the matter is that in fact we have the opposite. No begg, no violation, but misundertanding and begg-hysteria. No matter what he planned to do, no matter what will happen. User got suspension for something he didn't do yet.
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- He would not ask if anyone have a key then. Not applicable.
- He would not ask if anyone have a key then. Not applicable.
- Begging is not allowed.
- He would not ask if anyone have a key then. Not applicable.
And, most importantly - he would not name topic like this for such questions.
Your excuses becoming worse over time. Are you even trying?
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You're doing so much mental gymnastics.
They should have tried "Where can I get a cheap key for that game".
I kind of admire you trying to explain this, so much time spent formatting, all for nothing.
(For future references: if someone wants to get info, ask for the info, not for the item.)
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Most comments in this discussion show "ask for the info" about freebie or key is same as begging.
That's is one of the reasons I opened this discussion. So pity
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Guys, does anyone have a key lying around from Tomb Raider free giveaway?
This is not asking about information though. You don't need someone having an key lying about to get answers about it.
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I thought about it but decide it's inapropriate. This is should clarify author of guidelines that mean our respectfuly SG owner or any level of high support (don't know their hierarchy).
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I am no native English speaker either.
In my opinion, if you use an English website and do not understand everything, there will be misunderstanding. As it is a temporary suspension, it is a warning, which is fine. If I would use a Russian website by using google translate or similar, I would not mind being temporary suspended for something I did not understand correctly.
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It's not dissallowed as I know. I believe user used his own native language to prevent from misunderstanding. I also know where're some same native language support users so that why this situation worry me much more.
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I still do not see why the situation should be worrying as a short suspension is a warning, no more.
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Because case and rules doesn't corresponds in my humble opinion. That mean where're hidden rules or we need rules clarification or other users could also get suspensions for same cases.
Because SG system gave third suspension as permanent. So, anyone here have just 3 chances and it's okay but it's okay if user can't control it.
Because begging hysteria rises and burn anything and anyone who say anything similiar or close to "begg" word.
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There are 70 replies on this thread and not one agrees with you, I don't think 'we' need rules clarification.
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Lie. Most comments in original discussion and some here. Difference between lang-parts of community show misundertsanding.
I don't undertsand why so many people doesn't rean lang barrier part or translation.
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Again, if I would use a Russian website (using google translate) and would get a permanent suspension after 2 temporary ones, because I misunderstood a rule, I would not worry, as I know that automatic translations do not work flawless.
If I really, really, really would want to use a Russian website, I would have to learn Russian.
You cite the rule yourself and it is very clear. If you worry about the Russian Steamgifts community, start a thread "Steamgifts rules explained for Russian users" in Russian and explain rule like this one in more detail.
As far as I know there is no hard 3-strike policy. I am pretty sure several users have been suspended more than 3 times. I think (not sure about this!) that infractions of different rules do not "add up". So if the suspended user does not beg again, there should be no problem.
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If somebody have more than 3 suspensions than something wrong with rules.
Please, check part about language barrier or/and translation part of my long-read - where're no violation cause it is one of the possible FUTURE events.
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sry, but that sounds more like something wrong with a specific user....
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I fully agree with you on that regard. If someone doesn't understand the language well enough to follow the rules they shouldn't be surprised when they get a warning for breaking said rules.
English isn't some arcane knowledge only achievable through complicated means, it's a relatively easy language to learn, I speak from experience as someone who learned it in his late teens / early twenties just to consume more media online.
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I can congratulate you about successful learning. I could continue this and ask same about other languages but it could be inapropriate.
Anyway, I talked about misunderstanding not about rules but about question and inapropriate reaction. Most russian-lang comments understand what he asked but english-lang mostly and some smaller russian-lang find it just as begging. I learn this case and find it doesn't violate rules. I also find languages trouble and said about it. I also worried about clarification rules cause anyone and all could catch same case. We use guidelines and FAQ to understand what we should do and what we should not do. But how we can use it if rules doesn't correspods to suspensions. I'm also find this user case victim of begg hysteria and I worry about it cause nobody can't say anything similiar about begging if he want avoid tons of blacklists. I find it all damage our community and I worry about it. I'm not patron for about year or more and I was as patron short time but it doesn't mean that users without stars and high lvls just leachers. I believe in this community and I happy we have it vs other sites with dead soul. I want to help this community stay alive thats why I still spend hours to it, worries about it, gets tens of blacklist and spend years to return from bl. I'll get top amount of bl for this discussion. (21 bl vs 2 wl. I happy someone mark this discussion positive I guess.)
I'm sorry if I missed sense of your comment. I'll check it again after rest.
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You are not a mod, so what you believe don't really mater in this case.
You either become a mod to unban said user or need to talk to one to do so.
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Yes, I'm not a mod. (yeah yeah, our languages have different logic about positive/negative answers for question) But it doesn’t take me away from the community.
Suspension revoke already happen here.
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Is all this really needed for a temp 3 day ban for begging. In or outside of SG begging is just pathetic.
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I wrote whole it to describe incident. I didn't find reason to mark it as begg but I'm not part of support team. At the same time, I rechecked rules and where're no reason to suspend if I didn't miss something.
As I said:
The user knew about rules and made all to prevent breaking it include native language usage. The user stopped one step away from begging cause the user didn't begg for a key but asked about presence of it. That mean,punishment for an action that has not yet been performed IF it's suspension for non-existent begging.I don't think begging is bad cause our world full of different cases. Somebody could have all at one time and could lost everything due days or less. I don't think it's reason to legalize begging or make it common (people make organizations to support needers).
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You know how stupid this sounds ?
Take for comparison this made up scenario - someone gets stabbed. Stabber is being tried for attempted murder. And his lawyer pulls this - "He knew murder is illegal, so he stopped and didn't actually kill the person. So you have to let him go, because he didn't kill anyone"
Just because he "stopped" as you put it, doesn't remove his intention.
And if you think this is totally unrelatable comparison - so is that dumb comparison with "do you have a car" .. same shit
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Users already answered different. I'm sorry, your straight logic doesn't work. Your scenario isn't appropriate cause it make one way for the future events (dying process and then save or death).
Correct one should be next: it's not okay to call police and say "Guy killed someone" if you can see dangerous guy. You could call police and say "Here's dangrous guy" and your also could add "I worry he could hit somebody".
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A direct key gift (or a trade) was not explicitly stated, but HEAVILY implied. I personally agree with the suspension.
I think the main goal of this rule is to avoid a flood of messages of this kind (which Steamgifts naturally attracts). We certainly do not want a flood of people asking if people have keys "lying around" for trade or giving.
But, importantly: this does not make me angry at said user or anything, it is not personal at all -- I believe it might be a honest mistake, possibly caused by a language barrier. The suspension will soon be over, and I hope the user can win/give many cool games from/for us!
(By the way, as far as I can tell, "but" means in English exactly the same you say it means in Russian -- it signals "opposition", but it STILL STATES THE FOLLOWING PHRASE as correct.)
I find funny to use the word "but" when talking about the meaning of "but", but in this case it actually reinforces my argument. :D :D :D
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Usually "Statement BUT Contrstatement".
I convinced nobody can punish somebody for something he could do but didn't do yet. It's like "Hey, guy, you look dangerous let us jail u before u killed somebody."
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Third suspension is permanent so everybody should count each of it. It's a main reason in my opinion.
Some users could add sgtools have common requirment "no suspensions", so it's true for them too.
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I didn't think most english-community will be so hysteric and eyeless. This lesson gave me so much of nonse, hate, crazy and SG killing. I didn't realize so many people could react as they did and what they're who're they are. But I happy and surprised to see that "toxic russians" are much less illogical and full of hate. It's really surpising for me cause I thought on the contrary many-many years.
Anyway, he have small shield of high lvl and haters deprive self from his gibs that doesn't applicable for me.
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"I'm not begging, but does anybody have a key for blablabla? My nephew wants the game."
Sounds like the prime example of begging to me. Doesn't even leave room for interpretation. No idea what you're going on about. And yes, I read your post.
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+1
It's just a feebly hidden attempt to ask someone for a game... That's basically the first thing users do on forums when they want to break rules. Try to imply that they know the rules and then go on breaking that said rule.
Feel sad for OP. spent hours to create totally useless thread. Spent so much time trying to prove what wasn't meant by a sentence by bringing up some dumb loop holes in the logic of sentence... OP - so what was meant by the original comment ? That he actually wanted to enquire about whether someone just had the key ? Just like that ? With no interest or anything ?
That question easily falls under the begging rule. Just because he says he knows the rule doesn't mean he magically doesn't break it.
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Filling the question above (or below)... Would you give me a ride?
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"I'm not begging, but can anyone give me a key for my nephew? I already have the game but he doesn't."
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Not issuing a suspension for that thread would set the example for a lot of new users who can just "ask" if anybody has a key for X game since asking and not begging (where do you even draw the difference?) would be ok. Rules have to be enforced the same way for everybody, so I understand why the ban had to happen even if there is a language barrier.
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If I ask have u a car I ask "have u car?". If u think that this question mean "give me a car" it's not okay I guess.
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If you ask "do you have a car?" in a community where it's common to gift each other hundreds of cars daily (and it's forbidden to beg for free cars), yes that's what the question means. And it's not okay, you're right. I know you really liked that one guy's car question, but come on, this is not the same at all and you know it.
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And it's not even just "Do you have a car?" but "Does anyone have a spare car? I have a car but my nephew doesn't have one and would really like to have one to drive around."
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I think you're eyeless and panic about somebody could possible ask you for something. That's why you see it everywhere.
- Do u have golf? I have, but my wants it.
- It's not tradeable anymore. Forget it.
- Do you want a ride?
- Check other one. etc.
I wrote somewhere here translation of answers from original topic. It same. So, I'm not going to be a rude and I'm not a psycho-medic or somebody like that but you sounds really unhealthy I guess. Wish you goodluck and avoid any possible problems about your fear (if I'm not mistake).
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I think you are the one ignoring what is obvious. If he wanted to know about other info, he should have asked for that info, not the game...
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He didn't ask for game. He asked of presense of game. You're ignoring it and mixing actions.
That COULD and LED different future cases and noone was violation
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Like it's been mentioned above, he would be doing more than asking if someone has a car.
Try "Do you have a car? I have a car, but my nephew doesn't and he needs a ride." I don't see any way that can be interpreted as anything but wanting the person to give the nephew a ride...
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Again.
I wrote answers somewhere in this discussion.
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I was going to reply that a much more interesting question is whether this thread counts as a call-out thread, which I thought was against the rules, but apparently it isn't against the rules any more?
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Well, the user already opened a support ticket regarding this issue and they didn't get the answer that they hoped for, so they decided to take it to the forums. Not the first time it happened (in general, not with this user in particular).
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Ticket goal is check is suspension discrepancy to rules or not.
Discussian goal is to clarify rules (cause where're no violation in my humble opinion), eliminate language-barrier misunderstanding, and also (perhaps) help to achieve justice.
So, I'll not get guidelines clarification by ticket. This discussion could help community understand is there need to change rules to make it more clear or not. I have not special chat-line to somebody who could answer on it (patrons could have it now may be already).
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Appreciate your effort, but creating a thread about suspension won't clarify anything here, nor will it give you any answers you are looking for.
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Past of SG says different. Discussions already led to rule clarification. You able to check it at any time.
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I can't see your suggestion how rules needs to be clarified. What should be written there for you to understand that "is anyone has a spare key, my nephew needs it" is begging? Maybe if you can suggest a better wording - it would be more productive than your wall of text.
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Please let me remind you, and everyone else, that ticket and suspension information should be kept private between the mod team and the pertinent user.
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- It wasn't even a good attempt at begging, and clearly a rule-break.
- This should be in a support ticket, not posted on the forums.
- It's a three day suspension - a warning. They'll get over it, and so should you.
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I answered about "ticket vs discussion' in disclaimer and little bit higher in this disscussion.
Could I get your arguments about how or why it violate rules about begging or different rules?
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There is no argument.
Asking for a game key (whether it's for yourself or someone else) is begging, plain and simple.
If you call someone sitting on a street corner asking for spare change a beggar, then certainly someone sitting on a giveaway forum asking for a game key falls under the same definition.
And I don't need a wall of text to make that perfectly clear.
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A really big wall of text for a very easy thing...
He BEGGED
and he got punished for it
(i see the same typ of begging each week in the discussions...)
If you question if someone have a key it implicit something AFTER someone answer with yes or no.
Or did you expected that he want to read 50x yes/no ?
He came then by himself up with the "nephew that want that game".
So here we are and the implicit reason behind the question got revealed.
That lead to the fact that he want that game (if he want to buy it, trade it, get it gifted is not important because all are forbidden) and alone because of that are the suspension correct.
On top is he far away from a new user, so he known the rules very well.
The "language barrier" isn't a problem because a, higher, part of the sg staff are russians, i am sure they were able to translate his sentences very exact and know exactly what he wrote.
And i can only write that if people know different shops and offered games then some stats don't look so great anymore.
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In this case why users answered to him as:
- "Hey, you no need to do it cause you could family sharing"
- "He just asked about key and received suspension"
- "Keys were revoke"
- "I got blacklists by begg hysteria. Cool"
- "Gifts Sent 2,719 ($24,548.94) Why ban????"
- "Check Steamtrades for it"
As you can see, answers are different and I didn't find half of less part of them as "Hey, begging is inapropriate here"
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Question them why they answered him how they done it.
How and why should i answer it ?
And as a sidenote, it is very strange how much you advocate for him. Special in such a clear case of breaking the site rules.
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That's prove misunderstanding. Comments are opposite depends on language.
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Why ban?
There is no ban, just a suspension. In case of a ban, the user can not write support tickets anymore.
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I talked about begging hysteria, misunderstanding between languages, diffrent between rules and case. Most part of users show I'm not crazy about my worry. Most users here are really hysteric (reacts to anything similiar or close to begging as if it really is begging)
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even in english discussions a lot of ppl answer without pointing out the rule break.
its just that in english discussions there are simply more ppl around who might notice a rule break and point it out. (simply looking at the count english speaking ppl vs russian speaking ppl)
so this often happens faster, but it doesnt mean that all english speaking ppl care about the rules in a manner that they tell someone else about it the moment they see it.
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I want to believe it but comments here show opposite.
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Yeah, some people answered the question he didn't ask, but should have. This doesn't change the fact that he broke the rules, why would people waste time commenting when he already know he broke the rules? They probably just reported him instead, which would explain the suspension.
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Users answered question he asked. They didn't find begging and they surprised by suspension. People disagree and disussion closed after negative reaction to suspension (user wan suspended after few minutes but comments much older). I checked SG rules and language rules and didn't find violation. I wrote about all of it.
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"Gifts Sent 2,719 ($24,548.94) Why ban????"
Ah yes, class justice, the best kind of justice.
Are you rich? Here is a get-out-of-jail-free card.
Are you a sexy chick? No Twitch suspension for you!
Is your husband a politician? A hit-and-run only applies if you stay in the country.
Raped and/or prostituted minors? What happens in your penthouse stays in your penthouse.
The draft is for poor kids who's daddy doesn't play golf with their doctor.
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Hysteric again. You're trying to burn somebody no matter is it with reason or not. I used it and said that it's not logic to begg (for specific users who see begging in everything) in this case. So, you just prove my speaches.
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I think you'll find the majority will say that this was implied begging whichever way you write it unfortunately. A poll would have given you a clear answer of what most people think of this. Anyone that comments saying i am NOT doing X but ....... knows what they are asking for is treading a fine line/breaking rules and therefore should not ask for it in the first place.
Trading. This site is not for trading, so do not attempt to directly trade games or other items with users in our community. If you attempt to indirectly trade or express a willingness to trade with an unusually high frequency, it will also be viewed as trading.
Swap the trading word for begging and the rule would still apply.
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Swap isn't apropriate.
You could check dissussion and find users answered about freebie not about begging or key itself.
You could check short answers here or full here.
Doesn'tt it looks strange that one part of community (mostly english-speakers) find it begging and some other part of community (mostly his native language spearks) gave answers not about begging.
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All the guy had to do was ask if he knew anywhere where he could have bought this key cheaply or where can i get this game for free. The likelihood would be some one could have told him about an offer on the internet somewhere, or as you said, he could have been gifted a key by someone nice or someone could have asked him to speak to them on steam to discuss this(trading) or his nephew could have accessed the game via family sharing. The title of the thread indicates to me he knows what he is going to ask is not allowed but he asked it anyway. He asked the question with the aim of obtaining the game via someone gifting it to him or trading.
I am not sure your language speakers theory holds up as i can see at least a couple of native russian speakers that clearly disagree with you. After 3 days, he will be back as he was with no real damage to his record. We can agree to disagree and that's fine. it does not sound like we will change each other's opinion on the matter and that's alright too.
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Your idea is good but it close to violate or violate rules similiar for users who will answer. Paragraph 14. So I found his way as optimal cause he steped before begging-violation.
About lang: I ask friends and got similiar. I check original thread and got similiar. I asked teacher of russian lang and got same. I checked dictionary and cite it and got same. I don't know what I should else do to find more arguments for any side. I find just one russian in this thread and I find him very toxic (you could check his thread on SG with "similiar" "but" word at discussion name).
May be my brains became to much "academic".
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Man, I hope you're at least getting paid in gems or steam cards for this amateur lawyering, otherwise, this is just a complete waste of your time.
A couple of things that stood out:
-
I'm not sure why the level of the user is relevant at all (so much that it had to be pointed out more than once). Level 1 or 10 or 0 makes no difference in the end since the same set of rules is applied for everyone.
-
The fact that the user has the game, as you pointed out, is absolutely irrelevant. He was making an inquiry for someone else. Also the fact that the game was free at one point.
With all that said, I contacted someone from a Russian-speaking territory before issuing a suspension just to be sure that I haven't misunderstood the original post (Google Translate can be a bit iffy sometimes). No matter how you frame it, the user was making an inquiry about the game in order to obtain it through trade or begging (both of which are prohibited on SG forums)
And lastly, on a personal note, I find it kinda sad that someone who has been on this website for 5 years and has close to 5000 games is trying to get a key this way.
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I paid for it by . Anyone who just talked about begging (no matter is ask for suspension or charity) gets tons of blacklists. It's one of the theme that everyone-must-be-quite if he wants to be safe.
I've noticed leveled just twice: for incident decrtiption and in fact part. First one to prevent from "Aha, one another poor-begger rapped" cause it hard to use this insult case and show case is really different and talks about something else than just about possible begging. "Top-gifter begg for a key... what?" make much meaning and let talk about real situation about rule clarification. You can see where're lot of users who didn't find it anyway. Second one as fact cause it let understand that it's strange to use beg-pattern. Most users in original discussion found it and understand but some didn't and you can see where're much more people who didn't find it. Notice language and it let as see where're different case for diffrent languages that force us to think about misunderstanding.
It all seems crazy, nonsense and really like hysteria cause some hysteric users rape even top-gifters for just talk about something CLOSE to begging. It's not okay. I worry it's dangerous for community and it's needed to do something with it.
I wrote whole this long-read to clarify field of misunderstanding. I feel myself very annoyed and empty that I spent HOURS to let people talk on one language and lot of users regret hear. I badly surpised that russian-lang speakers mostly understand he didn't begg and english-lang speakers mostly regret to see anything except "begging". I want to remember this comic cases whre're special forces reacts to on talks about shooter-games but this case show the situation is much worse - people don't want to talk and want to destroy each other no matter why.
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people don't want to talk and want to destroy each other no matter why.
A fine example for your general overreaction.
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Dude/dudette... you really should let it go. There's no point in getting so riled up simply for a 3-day suspension that was duly deserved. Xarabas even said he did inquire to someone who knew Russian to make sure he wasn't misunderstanding that guy's post.
Also, people will blacklist for anything. It will happen more often if you post on the forum, as you're making yourself known instead of simply entering giveaways without ever interacting with anyone. You might have gotten a surge of BL because of this thread (people can blacklist for other reasons too), but it's no big deal... There are hundreds, thousands of people creating GA's here so that amount of blacklists shouldn't really affect your chance of winning.
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About lang: I ask friends and got similiar. I check original thread and got similiar. I asked teacher of russian lang and got same. I checked dictionary and cite it and got same. I don't know what I should else do to find more arguments for any side. I find just one russian in this thread and I find him very toxic (you could check his thread on SG with "similiar" "but" word at discussion name).
May be my brains became to much "academic".
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Ok, I feel I want to answer at least partly to your predicament.
Sorry for coming on aggressive and I suppose others did, too, so it just feels people are being just randomly angry.
But the thing is - it's not about some interpretation about rules or language barrier. People simply see that as begging. You are trying to bring up different excuses about intentions. There is no "beg pattern" , not misunderstanding. It's not about "being close to begging" or language barrier. You can write in broken English but the jist is understandable. You can't just simply misinterpret a meaning of complete sentence and think that it's fine then.
Most people including support consider that to be begging and end of story.
Why some users didn't ? Because most people here don't really care about rules as such or someone getting suspended. If someone is begging or calling out most users simply point out "hey, don't do that" .. well, this time support got to him before someone who could warn this person, and for some people that might seem a bit harsh.
The thing is, It's not some hidden agenda to silence people or to oppress some rules on users. And blacklists are just normal occurrence when posting on forums. People will disagree with you and will blacklist you.
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How much my English broken?
I asked it because I didn't meet lot of problems about it from my interlocutors from different countries include English-native. I hear positive reviews much more often than negative.
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I am gonna be the bad guy here but honestly even I as a fellow non native English speaker I can tell it is really not that great. At least for me it is really hard to read with all the spelling and grammar mistakes (mostly grammar). Hell even the "How much my English broken?" is wrong, it should be "How broken is my English?" or if you really wanna keep the same structure it would still be " How much of my English is broken?" but that just sounds weird to me.
That said, just keep at it and it will improve. What helped me the most was just reading and watching a lot of English content.
My English is far from perfect as well, so if any native speaker wants to correct anything I said please feel free.
And about the thread itself:
I am with everyone else and I do think the suspension is well deserved. And no matter how you try and twist it it is still begging in the end.
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I wanted to know level of knowledge not cases. Anyway, thx for review about my knowledge.
I uses oxford and urban dictionaries and grammar checker.
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And lastly, on a personal note, I find it kinda sad that someone who has been on this website for 5 years and has close to 5000 games is trying to get a key this way.
Ironic.
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The user declared knowledge of the prohibition of begging and stated that his topic was as opposed to begging (translation difficulties).
No, he did not. As a native russian speaker I'm absolutely sure that user knew that his topic is a rule violation. Your "language barrier" does not apply here in the slightest.
Asking about pesence of a key is not begging and it'is being one step away from possible violation in the FUTURE.
Indirect begging is still begging. And if you are not 15-years-old you should understand it.
Attention is focused on the opposition to begging.
That's not a fact, that's lie, i.e. opposite of fact. User acknowledged that he is going to beg for game.
The user doesn't begg for the key YET.
He did. I explained this above already. Do you think that if you repeat this lie multiple times it will become truth? It won't.
The meaning of "but" in English and "Russian" seems to be different. The word "but" in the original language means opposition. In context, it means opposing begging.
No, the meaning is the same. He meant "I know this is forbidden, BUT I'm gonna do it anyway". No language barrier here.
The user knew about rules and made all to prevent breaking it include native language usage.
Wrong. User knew about the rules and neglected it. Period.
Also, come on, why are you doing it? He is not harmed, not banned, just suspended for a couple of days. That's not the end of the world, that's nothing. Why are you overreacting this much? Yes, he hoped that for some reason (another language, being 10 lvl, having beautiful eyes, etc) he will avoid this. He did not. He did not lost something by that, all he need is just wait a little. Why are you so concerned about it?
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I red it but I think where're nothing to say cause your opinion will be the truth in any case in any case for all interlocutor.
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Honestly, I don't understand why you are trying to protect this guy so much. Is he really need this kind of protection?
Look, nobody blames him. Asking for a spare key would be totally acceptable in some small community where everyone knows each other, like small steam group, or discord server, or some hobby forum... Where there are no strangers, and you know that if you give the key to a user - he may give key to somebody else next time, and in the end everybody will be a little happier. But it just won't work for SG, and not because community here is worse, but because there is much more users, including newbies. We can't even have double standards here - if we will allow 10-level user to ask for a key because "we know him, he is generous, let's help him" - shit ton of 0-level users will see it and think "oh, so it's okay to ask for a key? I WANT SOME TOO!" and we will be infested by beggars in no time. That's why it's important to keep rules like this for everyone, disregard of past merits. And that's why this user got suspended (not banned! don't confuse those two!).
Honestly, I dislike many things that SG support do. Sometimes they are literary harmful for the whole community. But believe me, this is not one of those cases.
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Why make this more complicated than necessary?
Would you want to debate for eternity if case J1765 is begging and case Y1984 not? But don't forget that you allowed case C6772! On the other hand F6565 resulted in a suspension.
If people ask for something for free, it's begging. And it doesn't matter how the request is presented, to avoid "the stigma of begging".
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You serious? 3 days is not a big deal, there is nothing to discuss
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The rules do not prohibit begging (asking for a key), selling through SG, referring to reseller stores
Yes?? They do you even put it yourself,
"12. Begging. Do not ask game developers or users for keys or games, unless they are offering and searching for interested parties."
The user declared knowledge of the prohibition of begging
Yet he continued with the post regardless, thus breaking the rules
Asking about pesence of a key is not begging and it'is being one step away from possible violation in the FUTURE
It is begging, he clearly asked users for a key. "Guys, does anyone have a key lying around from Tomb Raider free giveaway?"
The meaning of "but" in English and "Russian" seems to be different. The word "but" in the original language means opposition. In context, it means opposing begging.
In context, he knows that he's not allowed to beg yet he asks for a spare key anyway.
Language barriers are a bad excuse, a lot of users on here aren't native English speakers, myself included. Also I think you're making a huge deal out of this. It wasn't even a permanent ban, it was a three day suspension...
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Sometimes I wonder would it be lot less effort to just wait the 3 days...
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Frankly, I'm not even sure what to discuss here. It's a pretty clear case of classic begging (and yes, I'm a native Russian speaker as well), the said user has been suspended for a short period of time (and rightfully so, especially considering that they were fully aware that they were breaking the rules), and that's it, there's nothing complicated here.
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This means that you do not know Russian well and speak your own language, which runs counter to dictionaries and the norm of the language.
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Don't bother, anything that doesn't agree with his/her statement will get counterattacks, no matter if you are right or not (or from same country in this case).
99% of the community see it in the way it is (if not the entire community), but thread creator tries to change our mind, trying to bring as arguments language difference and few others.
Just another case of "not getting over" a situation that didn't fit his/her point of view...
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It's just logical fact. Any language have own norm. If you don't follow norm of the language than you don't speak correct. Nothing more.
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Well, to me it seems that it's you are the one who don't know Russian well. Either that, or you pretend that you don't understand why the case we are discussing is begging. And no, your opinion about sentence has nothing to do with dictionaries, sorry.
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Your meaning have no higher priority than meaning of dictionaries.
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Yeah, it was begging, plain and simple. And it's just a 3-day suspension. I'm not sure why you're making such a big fuss about it.
People should take responsibility for their actions.
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Do not ask ... users for keys
He did ask for a key
Suspended
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Update 2
First of all, I want to say all who participated (doesn't matter positive, negative, neutral or toxic) and especially to all who really read my longread or any part of it. I'm also thankful for users who whitlisted me.
I'm happy some users read my longread and less of them agreed. I'm decide close discussion cause I really tired copy-past similiar answers to different users of whom didn't read anything and just trying burn somebody with or without reason. I met lot of negative and toxicity without reason and sometimes with reason I guess. And I got negative and toxic level much more than I could get for whole 6 years here.
I also surprised rules became work without corresponding to guidelines and some support staff could mute part of community and it's legal and okay.
I got more understanding why so many users left SG already and leaving it. I met lot of examples of that they complained. Doesn't matter what are u saying, doesn't matter what are u doing because u must just shut up bring gibs and never say anything similiar or close to whole theme of begging no matter is it begging or not. I'm happy where still are different users whom were most part of community early. So pitty such a great community ruins becoming toxic, eyeless and darker more and more.
I'm sorry I didn't find correct phrease for wishing good health so I hope you understand my intention. Wish you all good health. Have a nice day to all.
Table of contents
Disclaimer and important notes.
Key questions
Source discussion with translation
What happened
What the rules say
Important details
Interpretation
Conclusion
Humble opinion
Thank you for your attention
Disclaimer and important notes.
I am not a native English speaker, but I am a native Russian speaker.
By this discussion, I express my worry, my desire to draw attention to the recent incident in order to explain the violation of unknown (in my humble opinion) rules, eliminate language-barrier misunderstanding, and also (perhaps) help to achieve justice.
By this discussion, I am not implying criticism of support, flooding or hyping. I understand that an any person isn't a machine, that any person can be wrong, and this is normal (until technology has changed this).
(I'm also a bad guy who wants to practice some kind of "journalism")
Key questions:
Source discussion with translation
Discussion link: https://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/yh3h3/znaucto-zdes-nelza-prositno#O7IoI
Translation:
I know begging isn't allowed here, BUT^1.
Guys, does anyone have a key lying around from Tomb Raider free giveaway? I have a game, but my nephew missed the giveaway, he saw the game now and suddenly realize he wanted it (this game).*
(1^Check "Langueage barrier" paragraph for meaning of "BUT")
What happened
A user (lvl 10) was banned for 3 days after asking about the presence of a key from a free giveaway outside from SG. The discussion was closed some time after suspension. Users were divided over the correctness and applicability of the punishment.
What the rules say
The rules do not prohibit begging (asking for a key), selling through SG, referring to reseller stores, but where're no restriction for presence of a key. Where're also nothing about difference between tradeable games and freebies.
Important details
Facts
3.1) author could beg for the key the owner of the key;
3.2) users could say where's still possible to get it;
3.3) users could offer key as a gift;
3.4) obtain game without exchanging keys (Steam Family Sharing).
So, whole those cases are future and not present. No one of them violates rules as a an ask for presence.
Language barrier
The meaning of "but" in English and "Russian" seems to be different. The word "but" in the original language means opposition. In context, it means opposing begging.
To clarify the difficulties of translation, I provide my own translation from the dictionary about "but":
As you can see, 1-6 means contradistinction and 7 not applicable. Whole applicable paragraphs mean contradistinction to begging.
Link to the wiki dictionary (I hope the link works). https://ru.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D0%BD%D0%BE5.
Conclusion
The user knew about rules and made all to prevent breaking it include native language usage. The user stopped one step away from begging cause the user didn't begg for a key but asked about presence of it. That mean,punishment for an action that has not yet been performed IF it's suspension for non-existent begging.
Humble opinion
I think that where're one of 3 cases:
Thank you for your attention.
P.S.: oh my... - it took HOURS for me
Update 1
I'm sorry. In goal to prevent flooding and hyping, I'll not copy-past my answers for patten comments to users who didn't red an "article" and catches "begg"-word.
Update 2
First of all, I want to say all who participated (doesn't matter positive, negative, neutral or toxic) and especially to all who really read my longread or any part of it. I'm also thankful for users who whitlisted me.
I'm happy some users read my longread and less of them agreed. I'm decide close discussion cause I really tired copy-past similiar answers to different users of whom didn't read anything and just trying burn somebody with or without reason. I met lot of negative and toxicity without reason and sometimes with reason I guess. And I got negative and toxic level much more than I could get for whole 6 years here.
I also surprised rules became work without corresponding to guidelines and some support staff could mute part of community and it's legal and okay.
I got more understanding why so many users left SG already and leaving it. I met lot of examples of that they complained. Doesn't matter what are u saying, doesn't matter what are u doing because u must just shut up bring gibs and never say anything similiar or close to whole theme of begging no matter is it begging or not. I'm happy where still are different users whom were most part of community early. So pitty such a great community ruins becoming toxic, eyeless and darker more and more.
I'm sorry I didn't find correct phrease for wishing good health so I hope you understand my intention. Wish you all good health. Have a nice day to all.
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