I am going to be referring to the seventh point under the General section of Steamgifts Guidelines section under Help:

  • When posting links or content, that content should not force users, encourage users through reward, or primarily exist as a traffic source for users to perform an action for promotional, commercial, or monetary benefit. Such actions include but are not limited to clicking a referral link, liking a Facebook page, following a Twitter account, joining a Steam group, completing a survey, or making a donation.

Here's my problem, in somewhat over-elaboration. Also not just complaining, but asking for a re-wording or a fix to make (almost) everyone happy, so it clearly states what can and cannot be done, and creates less havoc and confusion for the average user reading it word for word in the future.

Currently, everything on steamgifts, including entering a giveaway, breaks this rule as it is currently written.
Under the definitions of American Heritage Dictionary, New Oxford American Dictionary, and Webster's Third New International Dictionary, as sources, I have run into a plethora of inaccuracies, when used to check particular vague terminology in question, versus what I believed to be honest and dishonest, or slightly corrupt from fundamental truth or informative, factual information in reference to above rule as stated on November 24, 2018.

It cannot ever be "perfect", but it should be enforced across the board as stringently as possible, or leave it as is until changes occur...

If you need sources beyond what is stated for particular words that are currently in violation of the English language and the muddled wording of the above guideline, many sources are available online to check at your whim particular word meanings, if you think something in question is misleading or false as stated in the guideline above.

Main point: Nobody would enter giveaways if it did not encourage users through reward. It's not guaranteed, but neither are any other types of things being flagged as "against the rules" and being asked by users to remove parts or all of their materials, even when they are also creating these same giveaways at their own desires. They are all using same guidelines, based on assumed agreement by both individuals under whatever terms and conditions they assume responsibility for as thinking, free, human beings on the internet. I don't think we need to baby users and say "you cannot do this" or "you cannot see that". Still, if you want to take that role, be equal across the board. Don't give some preferential treatment, and force others to change.

If people don't want to see it, create a system/tool where people can "hide" the things they do not like, much like giveaways themselves, and like what already exists in some add-ons, if you want people to be "less annoyed". It'll promote your own business to keep these smaller people afloat as well... just saying, as devil's advocate, and in the same assumed "accordance" with above rules.... I mean, as long as it is within reason. People would be trash-talking all these bundle group/advertisers and reporting the bad behaviors if it seems really shady. I've seen plenty of stuff get removed. I mean, the average user isn't dumb. Give us some leeway! Or... crack down on everything! Don't do both... For the love of all that is true, honest, holy, virtuous, and pure, change this guideline so it makes sense! Everybody on steamgifts is practically dodging the guideline when it is read as stated.

I understand the merit of removing more advertising through steamgifts. It is good to crack down on it, but this rule is full of major holes. It's bleeding and needs to be patched up. Over the course of time, people usually are good at mediating their own issues on these subjects, and can ask for higher appeal when necessary. People creating curations are generally not abusing anything any more than the average other recruitment for this or that thing - and if they are abusing it, like bumping themselves on purpose many times a day, then that should be considered spam, and dealt with accordingly. If they have others adding to the thread, then it should be fine. If they are responding to others because they like to communicate their appreciation, this should also either not be confused as spam, or something I'd appreciate more, the topic cannot be bumped by the creator in a reply, etc. Many ways to tweak that problem though, as I suggested a couple already.

I suggest amending this rule to explicity state what can and cannot be allowed on steamgifts under said terminology referenced above. I like things simple, and to the letter. This rule was both blatantly ignored for a while, and for some reason one day it's enforced. Problem being: it has been so flexible that one can pretty much add or subtract whatever they want from this at any given time (as was the case with curations being asked to be removed in "Group Recruitment" - both are happening at the same time), based on the convoluted context this mess is currently in. You cannot have this both ways... and expect everyone to be happy with it and lie down as a doormat.

I'm a creature of habit. I like things simple. Either enforce something always, or let it go always - and here is the real key part - until it is updated! That's the magic right there! Then you may do as you see fit, based on update. It is clear to all, there are no misunderstandings, no confusion, and the referenced changes happen after that is established. Don't violate your own rules by being the pot calling the kettle black. Removing certain violators of this rule as written, and passing over other "more innocent" ones, such as other types of steam giveaway groups, invite-only puzzles, any groups you join that have rules outside of steamgifts, etc. etc., is still a foul. I am calling this extremely biased and judgemental.

Group Recruitment of any kind - by definition is existing as a traffic source for users to gain a benefit. It is promoting something for somebody. For fun, or for something else... it is a gain, you are adding. +1 is positive. Period. 1 + 1 = 2. 1 + 0 = 1. 2 is larger than 1. That's adding! People would probably not do any of these things (take puzzles for example) if there were nothing to motivate them to join. See the difference? Go ahead and see how many people do a puzzle if there isn't anything to win... Obviously a giveaway or more will make participation more attractive, which is against above rules.

On steam giveaway groups and the motivation: Smaller pools = more profit or gain, either in reality with pseudo-steam wallet idling, or just by again, adding more to their library. There are better chances of winning more games. Throw whitelist recruitment in there too, by the way. Pretty much every forum topic... Hell, even creating your own whitelist, you separated some from the rest, giving them an unfair advantage, for your own interests, whatever those may be. That's some sort of gain. Many do "whitelist for whitelist". Potential gains! The level tier system? Chances for more profits at the top, as you contribute more! They are all excluding people in terms of something, and promoting traffic, and somebody wins something, so it also violated this rule.

Invite-only giveaways on the whole on pages for awareness, etc. violate said terms. Every type of giveaway is violating this, unless they are posting in giveaways as the second part of the said rule in question states:

(Please note, in giveaway descriptions we do allow users and developers to link to their related Steam Greenlight, group, and store pages, as well as their social media channels. Users are also able to reference their group giveaways when posting in the Group Recruitment category of our forum.)

But if the giveaway is above level 0, you have excluded those that didn't bite on the encourage users through reward part of broken guideline, due to it being fundamentally built on a pyramid/pay-to-win style format. They broke the rules to get there, since that was their motivation.

Everything pretty much anywhere in the forums that contains any giveaways is basically violating the rules as currently stated. Even just "content" that gets added with no giveaways is promoted somehow, via forum traffic. It gets views.

So, why attack curation? I mention this, since this is where my angle on it comes into play. Why I feel it should be black or white, and not picking and choosing. You are not required to join curation, but you may follow the curation store, and the steam store curator group itself gets no guaranteed added benefit over the same steam group (compared to other stuff mentioned that is "passable" right now under discombobulated guidelines) since one doesn't have to follow curation. It isn't a Steam group. It is the off-shoot of the group, but is still part of steam - it works in the same manner as joining a group would in any context, but is less restrictive, I might add, than steam groups, since you can exploit groups, but not join their curations, if that is what the ambition or goal of said user.

I cannot track my curation followers through steam and reward them with separate group, and those who do not follow get same entitlement as those that do follow, as far as steamgifts giveaways go. My point is, it's still just joining a steam group, like the ones passed over - nothing in "Recruitment" under forum title, by definition, should be allowed right now that I could find, according to above rules. They are no better, and should not be treated as such. Curations should be for reviewing - and trying to expose decent games through some means of their own work. People are not asked to do any work in them. If they choose to follow, it is of their own merit, as is the same with every single link to any group or focus anywhere listed in the steamgifts forums.

And let us not forget: steamgifts site itself has patreon - so that alone is also breaking the rule in question as well. It's probably one of the worst infractions of the above guideline one could possibly think of, actually. So, why can the ones making the rules break them, yet expect everyone else to "turn a blind eye" and pretend nothing is wrong with that? It's hypocrisy.

In further support of honest curation, it can actually help promote steam development - and this should be the main reason they exist - which is kind of the point of curation to begin with, whether creating it, or supporting it in any way. It's based solely on Steam. Yes, the same Steam that has to exist to keep this place afloat to begin with. Trying to bring good games up that are hidden, or whatever the motivations of the group, the user that follows generally has an idea of what it is about before following, if they even want to! I'm attracting attention to it the same exact way a puzzle creator is, or a bundle games giveaway group, or any other type of group... whitelist recruitment, PSA giveaways that are invite-only, etc... as I stated above. Their carrot is usually a giveaway also, or something that encourages a reward. Am I not correct?

I'm still doing giveaways under a Steam Group, or group of some sort, and not My Curation Store follower page!! - they are two very distinct and separate things. Again, there is a curation store which has followers, and the Steam Group, which is what is the only filter that steamgifts is measuring. I know of no way to exploit this, but I sure would if I could, since just having a Steam group is already exploiting the rule to begin with - whether or not I see fit to do so is the same as with any other group out there, bundle-share or otherwise, who have their own sets of "rules". So... since they all have "rules" on their pages, isn't that a violation? If you don't "do a monthly giveaway", "play a game", "contribute regularly", "have a clean record on steamgifts (for sgtools for instance and any number of rules that can be created there... that's a big rule-breaker, if it's added in forums anywhere)", "give back for each game you win"*, etc. etc. I could go on and on.

While curation is not perfect, I was asked to remove my labels from "Group Recruitment", and while the current rule supports this action, it should go much further than it is going, and not targeting the few selectively, while it goes along breaking its own rules, and allowing certain others that break the rule to remain as they are. It should be amended to support the ones passed over that also violate the above rule in question at this current time.

A lie is a lie is a lie, whether it is a white lie, or an all out lie. It should not be protected. It is still wrong, and we should all be in agreement and understand clearly what the terms and conditions of a forum/site we use are. The more grey you have, the more potential for abuse of the system, rule, or mechanic in question.

tl;dr - Topic Title. Move along.

10 months ago*

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"Off-site content" then, instead of just "content".
"force".

Edit: Steam Groups are a long-time exception on SG.
Curations are new. I'm not sure what the problem was with any posts you may have made, but the site is adapting to something new. That should be expected. I can't help but wonder if curation posts fell into a catch-all moderation of "spam". Additionally, I appreciate a little flexibility in the rules so that support staff can adapt to new and unexpected things; I grant you that this can be bothersome to adjust to. I don't personally have any problem with people mentioning their curation pages so long as they aren't spammy about it.

10 months ago*
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That would make more sense to me. At least some sort of definitive difference between one and the other.

On the edit: That is why I am bringing this up. Without flexibility I would have no grounds to complain, so I also support it in the right areas. Some kind of anti-spamming would definitely help. People can block/blacklist spammy giveaways which have curation, so doing the same for forum postings would also make sense on the edit to block out, or blacklist etc. Leave it up to the user, not the creator.

10 months ago*
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This was my thought. Obviously the rule doesn't apply to SG itself, just to external links.

Probably "steam groups" should be removed, though (like you said, advertising your group here is a long-accepted practice, but the rules should be updated to reflect that.)

10 months ago
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Wasn't your argument about "minors" and 18+ content that minors do on the internet anyhow what they want, and that it is not up to you to at least put a disclaimer on your group page about being a group only for 18+ users? So why insist on that some SG moderators ought to behave differently than minors - up to them who they hit the ban button with, similar to how some consider it out of their reach when minors hit a button claiming that they are 18+, no?

10 months ago
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No, that was yours... I was responding to what you said, which had nothing to do with anything in my other discussion.

10 months ago
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In the other thread, the tone of some comments was like: "Another Nazi round of sanctions, huh?", after which I stated (among other) that many other sites would have banned already (for luring to a 18+ group), after which you replied among other:

Minors are minors. Minors will be minors. Even if you go to porn sites, it asks if you are above 18 or 21 or whatever, and you have to put yes or no. If you put yes as a minor, that's out of their control. I can't control what a kid is going to click on or do in life ... That is up to their parents.

which is on one hand merely your personal interpretation (however it may be common e.g. in the U.S. where it is apparently assumed that every kid has a stay-at-home mum to look after kid all the time, and that no such thing as "responsibility by society at large and in particular" exists, but even in the U.S. e.g. handing an alcoholic drink to a minor is technically against the law even if the enforcement of such is lacking),
and on the other hand it is the reason why I say that one can as well argue that what SG moderators do is up to their parents (especially as they are not really SG employees).

Not that I wouldn't understand your point about it being weird that after a month or more of a recruitment thread being around on SG, that only now some SG moderator comes around to point something out. But in the context of your premise that it is up to parents to control their kids, I find it quite funny that you make yourself out to be the guy to argue for proper rules on SG, and proper enforcement thereof, while you already said that you are more like for anarchy state of things (including, as I pointed out, moderators free to push whatever buttons however they like, with some eventual "responsibility" being only with their parents).

10 months ago
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I don't really understand. The whole argument had nothing to do with what my OP was about in that topic. I was just replying to a hornet's nest you stirred up...

Good parents create good kids, which can build a great society. Bad parents (which is now the trend for many reasons I won't get into that science and humanity as a whole has supported those arguments based on our civilizations over time) create bad kids, which creates these oppressive rules and oppressive states of things.

"When men are pure, laws are useless; when men are corrupt, laws are broken."

Corruption is everywhere right now... period. That's what the focus of this post is about. Please point out anything different, and I will listen with an open mind.

10 months ago
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You are just overcomplicating things that are not there.

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10 months ago
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The rule is... not me. I'm simply pointing out the error.

10 months ago
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There is no error, simply there is a misinterpretation of things, based only on your point of view, don't make storm in a teapot

10 months ago
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When posting links or content, that content should not force users, encourage users through reward, or primarily exist as a traffic source for users to perform an action for promotional, commercial, or monetary benefit. Such actions include but are not limited to clicking a referral link, liking a Facebook page, following a Twitter account

Any promotional giv encourages users through a reward, whether or not they make that reward conditional on going through with the act isn't covered. And in practice, we are often told that you can do whatever you want with your invite only-links and share them however we want.

, joining a Steam group,

Group Recruitment and group giveaways seem to break this.

completing a survey, or making a donation.

I mean I've seen like 10 surveys/polls this year and as far as I know none of them were taken down.

10 months ago
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Oh yeah, I totally forgot about people linking freebies on other sites too, and deals. The forums have no place for such nonsense... it's just creating traffic for said sites! This is apparently allowable too, but it is against this particular rule. But it's counter-intuitive to above rule as well.

If I want traffic on curation, a big middle finger!

10 months ago
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Just my thought on one small part of this - encourage user through reward is pretty clear to me. A reward is something that is withheld until you take an action. A game is not a reward for entering a giveaway, but a chance to win it is a reward for entering, as an example.

More importantly though the grammar makes things slightly hard to read for people not used to legalese, so let's clear it up a bit.

When posting links or content, that content should not force users, encourage users through reward, or primarily exist as a traffic source for users to perform an action for promotional, commercial, or monetary benefit.

To make the meaning extremely obvious you should read this as three separate statements:

  • content should not force users to perform an action for promotional, commercial, or monetary benefit.
  • content should not encourage users through reward to perform an action for promotional, commercial, or monetary benefit.
  • content should not primarily exist as a traffic source for users to perform an action for promotional, commercial, or monetary benefit.

So basically you can make people do a puzzle to get a giveaway as long as it's not done as a promotion, commercial or monetary gain for you. This can be really hard to judge and it's not surprising opinions will change and differ. It's also not surprising if exceptions are made for the site's own content and benefit - the rules are guidelines for the users, not the site.

The simple truth about rules is that there can never be clear rules that state every possible situation - which is why rules and laws are always by nature full of loopholes and confusion for people who are not specifically trained to see them in the context they were written and so on. There is no reality in which this rule will have every single acceptable and not acceptable use written down, and even if many were there is no reality in which it wouldn't be hotly debated what every single case fell under.

I feel like perhaps you should work towards getting curator pages accepted as an analogy to "groups" instead, since that seems far more likely to be a workable direction as well as have a better effect. I would guess the reason they don't already do this is because groups are an allowed filter for practical and business reasons, while what curators you follow are not exposed by the steam API I believe, so would be impossible to filter on. This makes it more comparable to an external forum or website, which means it's a big difference between saying "come join my group we have giveaways in the official system where they can be tracked and moderated" rather than "come join my curator page/random web forum and there might be a giveaway but there's no way to track it or moderate it so there's no guarantees".

Since it's very hard to draw a line between allowing posts that say "please join my curator page" and posts that say "please join my curator page there's giveaways on it" - nobody can say easily exactly what phrasing to most people would imply there's a reward for joining other than just the join itself. From what I understand this is why it's allowed to promote your content in giveaways but not in the forum - in giveaways you are giving something away and say "hey by the way, check out my thing". In the forum you're saying "check out my thing, and by the way, there might be a reward."

I agree the rules and guidelines could be written better in many cases, and I do not agree with all of them - but I understand why they are in place and when it comes down to it this is't a democracy, it's a business. As such it will be run as the owner likes it and moderated as the owner likes it - not necessarily in the most optimal way for its users.

We accept that, or we go make our own site. I'm too lazy to make one, and I kind of enjoy it here, for the most part, so I think I'll just nod and accept what moderation is done, even if it does change over night. That's usually a sign that they've been given specific instructions, after all, or had some conversation and come to an agreement to change their own guidelines. That's stuff that's out of reach for us users.

Sorry you had troubles man. Hope it works itself out. I've always appreciated your contributions to the site.

10 months ago
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Thanks for wording it in such a way. I see what you mean. I am glad there is some open discussion on it. It's not a huge deal in the long run, but I think I like your last bit... finding other avenues that are more acceptable to my own ideas on how things are, since it is not going to change very much. I might just give it a break and come back later to see if any changes are made in a better way... instead of shutting things down in a sort of "surprise attack".

I would have liked to have the decency to see it in black and white. Hey everyone! We're changing the rules so you can't dodge them as curations... even though we make allowances for other circumstances. Here's some reasons why (which would be nice, but not required, of course. Their rules, their site). But yeah, just something outlining it... It felt like something akin to "racial profiling" by police, since some violating the same stuff (with groups having their non-moderated steam rules on their group pages members must adhere to or get kicked out).

Also understood on your point about the advertising through your own giveaway as opposed to giving away on a forum spot, and looking for more attention there. Giveaways end, but the page stays, and also steamgifts is being even more of a "middle-man" of sorts of the advertisement/promotional aspect, when it's not really up to them, as they're not getting any kickbacks in exchange for that service.

All good though. Today is probably my last day for a while. I have enjoyed my 4 years here. Today is going to be my cake day in about 8 hours' time. :D

Glad you have a level-headed response. Some people don't really want to act civil, and post knee-jerk reactions. Yours is backed by sense and intellectually presented in a manner I can understand.

10 months ago
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+1. A lot of it, anyway.

At the same time, I understand (a bit of, at least) the frustration in that groups and group giveaways as a whole "encourage users through reward" and all the rest of it arguably more so than advertising for curators anyhow. Like with the GG.deals giveaways -- I know that there was a bit of a discussion there about how the wording and presentation affects whether the thread does/doesn't fit in with guidelines, but you can't really deny that the group and group giveaways as a whole were all for promoting the site regardless of what the thread contained. Not including links to the site? Not filling the thread with information about the site? The group and related giveaways would still exist for promotional purposes regardless, so it's difficult to say it's that clear of a guideline. Should that be banned altogether, with groups only being allowed if they exist only for giveaways, or...?

But I don't know. I don't mind too much -- I think it's not worth getting worked up about either. I like the mods and what they're doing, and only hope they are supported so that rules can be enforced consistently. Also hope some of those 'do a quick survey for me' threads get closed ASAP in future, and don't tempt me to complete them ._.

10 months ago
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For me, the real issue is ... even if people wanted to say, hey, this is how it goes, and the creator or host is not gaining a gift, but participants in, say, puzzles for instance... the CV system backfires the whole "only the winner gains" idea. As long as there is reward (whether user sees it that way or not), there is a means to gaining extra, which in other words, still encourages through reward. Even if one doesn't care what their CV is, unless they only give out free stuff that offers no CV, ... well even then the numbers get padded for many other things that could make it advantageous. All-in-all, it is good here. The problem is, there is a lot of picking and choosing.

That's why I suggest changes, since it creates confusion. People are not quite getting that I am aware I was breaking the rules. They, however think it's perfectly fine for things other than curation to do the exact same thing, in no uncertain terms.... So that's my problem. I'm totally confused until the wording is changed. It's dualistic, by definition, using the sources I went over to see how the wording contradicted itself, based on what is happening with steamgifts forums - and the allowable stuff.

Just complaining - it's not directed at you. Thanks again for some interesting perspective, without any emotional knee-jerk reactions, unlike some I have seen. Myself included... haha!

10 months ago
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You tried to get subscribers for your curation, and it didn't work out very well. Not Steamgift's fault. Making a mountain out of the molehill you found won't solve your problems.

Get over it. Shut up about it. Move on.

10 months ago
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It's not about subscribers. It's about the rule in question. You are reading into something entirely different. I can still get them in giveaways!

Get over it. Shut up about it. Move on.

Take your own advice then. Like last time.

10 months ago
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Personally, I'd prefer it if all recruitment threads were eliminated from the site. If you want to add it to a giveaway description, cool. The caveat being groups specifically devoted to SG giveaways. However, I don't make the rules. :)

10 months ago
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I'd prefer it if all recruitment threads were eliminated from the site.

That would be awesome. Or even better for Valve to remove the curator feature completely. It's kind of tiresome to see all those little kids trying to become the next PewDieCake or at least Salzstange.

I missed this particular little curator soap opera though. I'm just anti-curator in general.

I was there for the biggest injustice of the universe though: The abrix "You need to join everyone of my 23 amazing curation mafias, not just 1" conspiracy. Seems we have one of those every other week.

10 months ago
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Or even better for Valve to remove the curator feature completely. It's kind of tiresome to see all those little kids trying to become the next PewDieCake or at least Salzstange.

Fuck yes. And the majority of them aren't doing it out of the kindness of their hearts. Google "Steam Curator Connect" sometime.

10 months ago
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That's my main problem with them. (beside curation being pretty much useless to me even when done right) If they just focused on reviewing niche genres like Anime Weeb trash or Grand strategy without trying to blackmail devs for keys or similar practices I wouldn't mind them. But that's not how human nature works.

Wasn't Connect that feature where developers can now sent Steam gifts (instead of keys like they used to) of their games to YouTubers and Curators for them to sell on G2A later?

10 months ago*
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Wasn't Connect that feature where developers can now sent Steam gifts (instead of keys like they used to) of their games to YouTubers and Curators for them to sell on G2A later?

Yes, or to advertise their curation in the forums so they can get more followers and more free crap. :3

10 months ago
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It's all rather depressing :\

I really have to take 5 minutes and make a SteamGifts pic version of the Mos Eisley spaceport. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. quote sometime.

10 months ago
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The funny thing is, there's an amazing curator in this thread, but you'd never know it because he doesn't advertise here. In fact, he's also against advertising here on the forums. Now that's some shit I can respect. He lets his reviews speak for themselves.

10 months ago
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I'm against advertising as well, since it breaks the rules... That's kind of my point? Fixing the rule? So people can or cannot, without dodging the bullet, so to speak.

10 months ago
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but you'd never know it because he doesn't advertise here

You were advertising your curation on the forums to gain followers, same as Youtube creators and Twitch streamers have tried in the past. They also received warnings, and a few even received suspensions.

You're acting like this is some new rule.

10 months ago
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10 months ago
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Thank you kindly ;) I guess I could have managed the upper part but the lower half with their backsides looking at the forums really drives the point home.

It even looks like Luke is turning his head sideways in wonder because he can't believe what he's reading there. Brilliant :D

10 months ago
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Tzaar Solo shot first...

10 months ago
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Have you even used curator connect? :sigh:

10 months ago
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I don't need to. It's pretty well documented. ;)

10 months ago
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Then you'd realize it's between a recipient and the developer. Just a button one clicks to accept under whatever terms are suggested between both contacts. They can offer keys in a message, provide email contact, etc. But you can get that through gamespress and other things if you want to beg. You don't need curation for that...

There are much easier ways to scam if somebody really wants to scam... It's an agreement, and it gets generated to your library. It's just that easy! If they wish to provide more info, they can... but they are not required to do anything beyond that. A curator can decide to not uphold their end of the deal and honestly curate/review, but that's on the curator. And it is also a risk the developer chose to take.

I cannot use g2a to sell something I don't have to sell. Anything being sold goes beyond the basic premise of curator connect.
Curator connect is automatic and digital, as though the key is activated and then added to library. Good luck removing it from a library after accepting it, and trying to sell that, with no key provided at all. It won't magically turn into a giftable item in your inventory either.

10 months ago
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Where did I say anyone was scamming? If I wanted to say you're scamming, you should know by now I'd just come out and say it. I'm not much for mincing words.

My point was that you stand to gain some free shit the more followers you have.

10 months ago
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No. They cannot send gifts. It's added to one's library if they accept it. It is not a key at all. That's the whole point of why they wanted to go that route, as it was safer. If somebody cheated a developer through curator connect, they only gain a library copy that is automatically generated, as though you are claiming a key and it's then in your library.... they couldn't go back and make money on it. Try to remove one of your own library games and selling on kinguin or g2a. Not happening!

10 months ago*
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Or even better for Valve to remove the curator feature completely.

That would solve a lot of problems with curation right now. But it would also kill a lot of more things that make varied approaches to curating great. I like more abilities to tailor my curation follows to what kinds of aspects in gaming I like, rather than this... promotion of particular groups that release the same AAA bullshit carbon-copy perfect 9/10 shit. People are influenced/brain-washed by a few bigger curations and the hype promoting whatever they want, and everyone listens. It's sort of an... Oligarchy? I think that's the right word. Call it what you will, but those big subscribers will still have much of Steam under their thumb, to promote garbage some of the time, in my opinion... out of the little that I have followed. At least until something better can be figured out, I still feel it's a step in the right direction from where it was before steam direct, (oh how much better greenlight was!) but it does have a long way to go.

I don't think anyone is trying to become anything. Some people enjoy writing, so curation seems to be a perfect fit. I don't even know those people you are talking about, aside from their names. I do know some one named PewDie, or Totalbiscuit or Sterling,... something, was one of the curators that met with Valve to create this mess... fyi. It was to remove Greenlight, and move in a positive direction.

Again, far from what we all want, but you can always choose to not follow curations. It's totally up to one's own preferences. I like them on occasion, but many I personally follow don't get that much attention, so I will be the first to say it's not a great thing over say... personal reviews. I can check various reviews of people who really bought a game with no strings attached, and I get a less-likely biased spin. On that, I can check a few, and get sort of an idea. At least it's not like the old days where you buy, and probably get stuck with the copy. You get a couple of hours to check out a game. If a curation recommends something, and you hate it... well, time to try another one.

Nothing to bitch about though, if you are not involved at all with it.

You can read about it on whoever-the-hell's youtube... their meetings with Valve on the issue, and the directions they were trying to take Steam to give more users access to more direct contact with developers, removing some of the key exchanging, and grey market scams. I won't get into a totally different subject I know very little about though. It wasn't but a little over a year and a half ago, and took even longer for changes to implement with Steam itself.

Sorry for rambling, but it is off-topic a bit. I still think it has a long way to go.... so elimination is a good idea, especially on something non-Steam, like steamgifts. I 100% agree on at least this site. None of that should be allowed in any form, or it should be allowed on forums... just like other types of group recruitments, whitelists, invite-only stuff, etc.

10 months ago
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When posting links or content, that content should not force users, encourage users through reward, or

  • primarily exist as a traffic source for users to perform an action for promotional, commercial, or monetary benefit.

Such actions include but are not limited to clicking a referral link, liking a Facebook page, following a Twitter account, joining a Steam group, completing a survey, or making a donation.

that's the part about curators, not the one you highlighted. :3

Currently, everything on steamgifts, including entering a giveaway, breaks this rule as it is currently written.

that sounds like grasping at straws.
without giveaways, there would be no site. 🤦‍♀️

btw, cg can do whatever he wants, including putting referrals and having a patreon to run sg. comparing what a common user can do and what the admin does is out of the question...

10 months ago
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You're right. I'm simply including it in context with the overall rule. It's still not worded well. And people are still not following said rule, since, even at the most altruistic levels, CV system creates a motivation to gain through rewards.

I understand your point though. Still, when it comes down to it, I can't help but wonder... what isn't a traffic source on here promoting something for some benefit? It's simply not worded where I can understand it, personally. Maybe others make sense of it, so I am hoping someone will help me to understand something that is very vague.

10 months ago
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Just want to say that it's sad to see you being such a critic of the whole site that was perfectly okay until your curator was closed out of SG. Grapsing at straws is covering it perfectly.

10 months ago
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Still throwing a tantrum under the guise of "fixing the community" because you didn't get your way and weren't allowed to sell your curation on someone else's site, huh?

Disabling the disabled. I've learned that's how it is for those of the ill caste in society. Just more of the same.

From your other thread. Pretty disgusting using your disability to leverage or sway people to your perspective, and proof you're not doing this for the community -- you're doing it for yourself.

This isn't about fixing a rule or helping the community. This is all about your damned curation.

10 months ago
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It's broken - both are, so the point still is valid. No matter what my motives are... it still is more of the same, as I stated. Why does it matter to you one way or another? You're being as judgemental is this rule seems to be. I just want clarity.

I, on the other hand, appreciate your opinion. Still more of the same from me. It doesn't change my feelings about you, as I think you've got good intentions that you are backing up by what you're saying. Words can show our convictions and passions about what we believe in, and it's how things can change for the better. I'm only looking for why some allowances are okay, and some are not. And also why it's so sudden with no real warning, aside from the surprise messages group recruitments got, and only certain types at that, while others still remain the exception to the rule.

We are both throwing tantrums, I suppose. This at least aims at a goal in amending or finding common ground, so the average idiot or persons dodging the rules (as I'm pointing out) don't get away with it. Or, perhaps a compromise, or a way to show what is okay, to a reasonably non-vague extent.

10 months ago
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It's broken - both are, so the point still is valid.

Didn't seem to be too broken when you were racking up those 2500 wins in white-list, group, and leveled giveaways, but now it's broken because you can't sell your curation on the forums? And then to use the word "hypocrisy?" You got your hand (barely) slapped, that's all. You're still allowed to spam your curation in giveaways, but nah, that's not enough for you.

We are both throwing tantrums

Three different threads, tossing about the "disabling the disabled" line, and spamming Khalaq numerous times in other threads a couple days ago? Nah, man, that's all on you. I'm just telling you I think they're all shitty things to do. That's not a tantrum. That's my cold, hard opinion.

No matter what my motives are

If you were in this little crusade for the community's well-being, you'd have started it ages ago instead of waiting for a hand-slap from support to tilt your sword at this particular windmill.

10 months ago
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Didn't seem to be too broken when you were racking up those 2500 wins in white-list, group, and leveled giveaways, but now it's broken because you can't sell your curation on the forums?

Yes. I figured, since everyone was dodging this rule on an unbiased and equally ignorant format, it was okay (as all other mediums currently are, under current status of this guideline. Please refer to point 3/C

We are both throwing tantrums

We both are throwing tantrums. That's just my cold, hard opinion.

If you were in this little crusade for the community's well-being, you'd have started it ages ago instead of waiting for a hand-slap from support to tilt your sword at this particular windmill.

It takes a spark to light a fire sometimes. I realized it was contrary to the rules... all of these things are equally at fault. That's my point.

10 months ago
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Yes. I figured, since everyone was dodging this rule on an unbiased and equally ignorant forma

No, not everyone. Just some of you. There are curators who knew better than to advertise on the forums. One in this very thread.

We both are throwing tantrums.

Still just you, bro. My last thread was about a game expansion being released. ;)

10 months ago
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Then you are verifying that your volatile words are meaningless in this particular thread. Nice way to shift the focus.

Diversionary tactics are a nice defensive mechanism though. Well played!

No reason to comment further here, unless you need the last word for your ego. We understand each other just fine.

10 months ago
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[Edit: Nevermind, you won't get the irony of your own statements.]

10 months ago*
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Superfabs: Personally, I think all the respect, admiration and good will you originally invoked here, is slowly being eroded by your constant bickering about not being able to promote your curatorship. Please give it up?

I'd prefer it if Steam allowed us the choice to disable all curators. Am not a fan of the concept at all.

10 months ago
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Rep is overrated. Trust me. Truth and integrity is what matters in the end. Our true selves. I don't need your respect. As a matter of fact, based on your commentary, I don't really want it to begin with, if that's what you think about others... being judgemental.

Go judge and gossip about others. I want no part in it.

10 months ago*
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But isn't reputation and integrity linked? I don't get it. You already have my respect sharing your condition (and of course you don't need it), but if I'm honest (because we both agree that that counts), you are coming across a bit desperate with this unwinnable fight. But hey - mine is just a view as an outsider, and of course you can disagree or ignore it. Either way - good luck and happy cake day.

10 months ago
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Thanks for the happy cake day wishes! Sometimes we sacrifice our rep for the greater good. It has to happen on one side or another... that's just how it goes. What one views as good or bad is not necessarily so. Just their perceptions. So, in a way, nothing is cut and dry, but everyone has a bit of bias towards one side or another. Somebody can have integrity on both sides of an issue depending on which side one views it on, but they have totally different reputations and perceptions of the world, all depending on who sees them a certain way. I guess he who hangs with wise men becomes wiser though. You have good advice.

I realize... that I am not helping anything at all - I should give up and settle for mediocrity. At least some people in the world beat "unwinnable" odds and gained freedom. Many great leaders had these qualities. If they had not tried, they would not have had the chance to fail. Many fail, but at least they went down knowing they attempted, giving themselves a chance to actually succeed in their cause they believed in.

10 months ago
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I agree with you on a few points you make, but ultimately if deep down you feel you are right in something - despite people telling you otherwise, then any fight - even an unwinnable one, is a good fight. For me it's just a bit simpler than the way you see it - I see it purely steamGIFTS, and I don't have any expectations when making giveaways, nor would expect others to either.

I was mainly referring to some of your GAs in the mega mega train, where you seemed upset that something like less than 1% (0.1%?) of the entrants were subscribing to your curatorship. I did feel a little pressure to follow it, even though I did not want to, and that left me a little uncomfortable, and the reason for my initial comment.

I also don't see a reason for 100% explicit wording in the rules if the admins can make a ruling based on what they think at the time. No one is going to get banned for first time offences or for questioning the rules - but the site is not exactly a democracy.

I probably don't quite understand completely where your gripe lies - and for that I apologise for jumping in perhaps less than fully prepared. But, I can see this is important to you, and like I say - if you are convinced you are right - then go ahead - I'll step back and let the powers that be decide - even if I think you may be wrong ;)

10 months ago
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Sorry for that black humor in that original curation post you saw... referring to the low percentage. I didn't expect anything at all to happen there. Just one extra is awesome for anything like that... There should never be pressure to join something if one doesn't agree with it. If I can give it a chance, I may or may not, but I can always change my mind later. It's a joke that most didn't get, but low level giveaways have always had that happen with hidden giveaways tests and such... I found it funny, and always do, but oh well... I can understand why some wouldn't get it: users cannot hear the tone of somebody's voice, or see body language in pure text.

But the joke in and of itself is why the curation thing isn't really a big deal to me. It's all in fun, and I just liked to give, as you say. GIFTS. I wanted a reason to give beyond what my already previous reasons had been, and I like writing reviews when I feel better... so curation fit naturally since I cannot work right now due to illness. I was already on the site for some time, so I figured I'd give it a go and see where that leads. No problem if they want to remove it, as it clearly breaks the rules. Everything else is being ignored, but also breaks the rules. That is my problem. Why convict some of the same crime guilty and let others be innocent and pardoned. That is my issue. The manner of enforcement was lax, and is still half-hearted... It saddens me. I just don't agree with half-assing anything if one can help it. That leads to mediocrity.

Until I can find something that really digs why my post is wrong, I simply have to continue forward with my suggestion, and hope "he who has ears" will hear. If not, I'll just promote and gift elsewhere... I'm sure there are plenty of people in steam groups out there interested in big giveaways. This I can provide, without spreading myself thin on steamgifts; at the same time I can keep my few niche groups I like involved here if they want me around, and will continue to break the rules - just less of them so it's easier on my conscience when I participate in certain types of giveaways.

10 months ago
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Happy cake day!

10 months ago
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Thank you my friend! Enjoy your steamgifts experience as much as you can! :D

10 months ago
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I didn't actually read the whole wall of text in the OP, so sorry in advance if you already mentioned what I'm going to talk about, or if it's not really related to your point.

The "featured giveaways" thing always pissed me off. Like, why and how are those featured exactly? At first I thought they were a good thing (I mostly saw devs giving away keys for their games here, which is nice since it gives exposure to games that wouldn't have gathered much otherwise), but nowadays they're mostly about people plugging they Steam groups / curators (or worse, like curator mafias giving away keys of dubious origin). Why is this allowed, while advertising about your groups in the forums isn't?

10 months ago
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Yeah... that's worse than promoting it in a forum... if one is being considerate and not bumping it constantly... I think I had mine bumped several times a day, by others I didn't ask to bump the thread.

These people can get hundreds of keys through developers (steam curator connect works totally different, almost like a digital button to accept game, and it's added to library). Now, with connect, they can provide info if they want... thus giving you a communication line to see if they want to invest in a giveaway here or there, but that's at their discretion. Curator connect itself at its core is simply for reviewing/curating, since a developer picks that group of their own free will, and asks if they are interested with three buttons (accept/not interested/politely decline). Only way to bypass it being automatically added is the request for keys, which there are a million easier ways to do if one wants to beg for extra keys.

Anyway, I get that point loud and clear, and hadn't thought of it, but it is definitely another contradiction. They can be up for days or even longer.... Bigger developers are going to be able to do this more, or personal developers that can ask Steam for good-sized amounts of keys. Also users giving away larger amounts of keys can take advantage of this to gain more CV and, while it lowers in value per 5 games, it's still padding stats, making it look like someone is giving away a lot more than they are - deceptively creating something there, so they gain a benefit by gaining CV faster, if they are using large amounts of keys to do so. Not saying that's the motivation behind every single one, or even close to that, but it's still a mechanic to factor into the mix.

I worked with one developer with my personal curation for a 'featured giveaway', but my name wasn't attached. My curation was linked, as was my group. I've done a few featured giveaways for other causes too... I feel all were equally justified, or unjustified, but the splitting of hairs is what bothers me... But for that one time, I let the developer create the giveaway and then add some links for my curation, thus they earned the CV, since they felt more comfortable with not giving me the keys in the first place. Totally understandable since many out there will sell them on grey market sites, if they don't manage to reach giveaway stage and cheat said developers.

10 months ago
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Honestly I don't care that featured giveaways enable people to farm CV, there are like 500 other ways to do that anyway. What irks me is that they somehow legitimate unsavory groups (curator mafias, key extorters and whatnot) by giving them visibility and "officially" endorsing them.

10 months ago
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I assumed those were just giveaways visible to you (public/your groups/people that have you whitelisted) of games with 50 or more copies available.

10 months ago
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That's possible. Although I think I saw some 50+ keys giveaways outside of this section, and I remember it being called "featured giveaways" at some point. But since I don't know the inner workings of SG and I tend to forge fake memories, I could be wrong.

10 months ago
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Happy cake day!

10 months ago
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Thanks so much! :D

10 months ago
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Judging by that massive amount of text, I'd say, in a kind manner, that you care too much. This is just another site full of leeches, maybe 2% of the users are good people. There is no reason to care about this site too much, especially about details like that. :)
Ignoring things I dont like is always the best way to have a happy life, in my opinion. Getting riled up about things that arent too important only leads to a bad mood and toxicity. But seeing how encouraged you are, thats probably not for you :D
Anywho, happy cakeday!

10 months ago
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Thanks for the cake day wishes! You've got a good point. People tell me that a lot in normal life about caring too much about things, when I get worked up about things I cannot change. I have Autism Spectrum, whatever the hell that really is... so maybe that's why it's hard for me to differentiate between things, and I have some mind-blindness on certain issues. I need it a certain predictable way, or it makes me anxious. Hard to explain, but it's pretty annoying having everything as close as possible to efficient and streamlined.

I'm glad you mentioned this though. Perhaps it is a more compelling reason that it is time to step back... and walk away. At least mostly. Since it is my cake day still, this will be my decisive moment (or I had hoped to plan for that) - to decide how active I wish to be, if at all. I'm going to be very much less active in discussion after today, and probably not reply to anything, join public giveaways, or the like. Leave most, if not all bundle groups... probably never do a whitelist giveaway again until the rule is amended when hell freezes over... A lot to think on.

As a leech, myself, and falling into that very atmosphere - and then justifying my massive collection of wins (2% of which I have probably played, now that you mention 2%) by giving more games, it is that time to leave most of it behind. I'll stay with a few closer-knit groups out there that are kinder. I'll find other ways to promote through Steam itself, and such. Gaining followers is much more lucrative if it's in my review to join because they like my material. I'm just wasting money here, when my time and passion is what really creates a reward for me in my curations. :D

10 months ago
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I'm happy that my dumb comments did something good for once. Do whatever makes you happy! There is no right or wrong there really, and you're not obligated to do any GA's, so ease your mind :)

And by the by, you're no leech at all. Sure, you've won 2,5K games, but you also gave 4K games. So with a bit of perspective, you're more generous than most users around here. Take it easy and have a good weekend!

10 months ago
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Happy Cake Day, Superfabs! :-)

10 months ago
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Thanks a lot, DrPower! Have a nice one today too!

10 months ago
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🎂 🎂 🎂 🎂

Happy 4th cake day fabs!!

I was off-forums for the past few weeks. so I haven't yet read the whole thing completely. Currently swamped with some errands, I will give you my feedback later.

PS: Till then, just one unsolicited advice, don't become the next you-know-who.

View attached image.
10 months ago
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Thank you very much! ^____^

10 months ago
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Belated happy cake days, Superfabs!

Btw: You are kinda right, BUT I think this rule is only meant to be for stupid public GAs, with like "only Followers can enter and win" or "For every 25 Retweets I will post a new GA".

If you did something wrong, you will probably get a suspension and that's it.

PS: People are right here, you shouldn't put so much of your energy, concern and time into this matter, there are better things to do ^-^

10 months ago
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Just pointing out some inconsistencies.... It should be worded properly. Just here to try to help, since I was uprooted unexpectedly.

I understand the gist of what it is about, but it's still not as clear as it could be. Just wanting to promote growth instead of mediocrity, and stagnation, which it seems that a lot of the community here supports. Understandably so. We have been trained to be "sheeple" in a sense, so it makes total sense why people want the normal average to be okay, and settle for less than...

I always fight for VIRTUE, however. I'm sorta half-joking. I did put effort into this, but it's all good... Nothing will change, but I want to be the change I wish to see around me, whether or not it's pointless. That part is irrelevant to me, if that makes sense.

Take care, and respect always to you! :D

10 months ago
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Nah dude, the rule is perfectly clear.

10 months ago
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Can you elaborate, since you wanted to chime in a bit? If not it's cool... I'm actually just glad you bumped it at the very least to get some extra exposure! That alone helps support a possible change.

10 months ago
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Sure, it's very simple and has already been explained but here you go. The use of reward in that context makes it obvious that the giveaway itself is not being discussed. The sentence starts with "When posting links or content", so any description henceforth only applies to that context.
You claiming that winning/entering a giveaway or getting CV is a reward is technically correct but completely inapplicable and orthogonal to what the rule is discussing. You just ignored the "When posting links or content" part completely.

10 months ago
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Oh... I figure a post is a post, whether in a giveaway, forum spot, or anywhere on a site. Sorry. I guess I'm still as confused as I will ever be. I'm still posting a giveaway as well, with more info being posted inside of it, just like as if it were in a forum. Oh well... I will never get it I guess.

10 months ago
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