First of all i like to think myself as not a conspiracy thinker, i thought many of the "anti vax" stories were just fake, or overblown, like how athletes even died of heart issues even before corona.
Last year i lost my dad because he died of a shortness of breath (he had heart problems) but it always bugged my mind, if it had anything to do with the boosters, because there are also stories going around it can produce heart problems, even with youngsters, and it came so sudden.
And the boosters could have side effects and you could just been an unlucky person to just have had one of those.

Now today, our housekeeper came and she told me she had 8 clients that suddenly got a stroke/TIA, including my own mother, which i now personally believe can't just be a coincidence anymore.
And by all means, feel free to think it's just a coincidence, that's it's not correlated, to each their own (respect eachothers opinions), feel free to share your experiences if you want from your surroundings or find you got a good quality piece to read either pro or anti.

I wanted to share this, and not to advocate not taking boosters, everyone should make that decision for themselves, lets keep the thread a bit clean.
I hope atleast make some people have a good thought and inform themselves very well, when thinking about a potential booster, personally i had 2 vaccins (and now with a bit of regret even) but i am done with them.

And yes i know of american tv commercials saying this and that medicine can give seizures, strokes, or even death, and people still take them too (seemingly) but atleast you been warned then, unlike with the vaccin (and a large group did it on their trust on the pharmaceutical companies/ government and giving protection against others/close ones).

What always struck me as odd is how noone complains about getting vaccinated as a kid against measles, chicken pox etc, yet somehow there been so much adversery against the covid vaccin from the beginning.

3 months ago*

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Are you gonna take (more) booster shots?

View Results
Yes
No.
Undecided.

The problem with those shots is that they were developed so fast that they didn't get tested enough, which basically means that us humans are the testers so if it has side effects that are really bad, it's not uncommon for them to find out now since normally that stuff need to be tested for years before it can be used officially and the Corona shots were tested for... month at most? So yeah, am no surprised if it has side effects or issues they found out after it got made official so to say.

That said, sucks that your mom is having issues, hope she will be okay!

3 months ago
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Yeah, you are absolutely right and that is exactly the problem that it isn't tested enough. (but you think you well you can trust your government not giving you bad stuff, right?) but that could have been a mistake.
And well (young) people even ended up on the IC or having long covid versus the complications the vaccin might bring, it's a choice between two bads really.

Thank you, appreciate it.

3 months ago
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Haha trusting your government they want the best for you? Sorry but that made me laugh, not sure if there are many countries left where the government are not just greedy assholes! (am not saying that all they do is lie, but would never trust them again on their word just like that)
I remember a year or so ago they said on the news that hospitals were filling with non vaccinated people and it was a huge issue and then doctors of those same hospitals were like 'uhm no? not only are we not filled but many who lie here are vaccinated, more than non vaccinated people' but well, that's not what they want you to hear ^^

3 months ago
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Governments want what is most marketable for their specific voters... Now this might be best, but usually not...

Something had to be done, so something or really many things were done...

3 months ago
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No, i am not saying i totally trust them, and here they put on taxes on everything yet not help us take a load off financially by decreasing such taxes like on groceries, gasoline, gas, electricity etc, many households either set their heating to 16c in the winter and get into very deep financial problems, when you earn more then 45000 euro they gonna tax it to 87%!
So whether you work or be in wellfare, you are being put into a financial grip, so yeah ours is just as greedy, and we got about the highest inflation (17%) in Europe, yet we give 700 million extra to refugees (and nothing against them, especially those in need, but pamphlets are being put out in other countries that they come here for a free house, wellfare etc) and bring in thousands each week.

I did however trusted them to not give us something that would make so many people sick/die etc, maybe i am naive there.

3 months ago*
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Yeah, I lost trust of them long ago, like you said we have more and more financial problems and they do close to nothing and if they do, they wait so long that they are almost too late.
We are basically the income for the government, there are big issues and our government only cares for for refugees (yes, it sucks for them and they need help, but we can't handle them anymore!!) and to look good at the EU even though we have many people who can't even use their heater this winter and will die or people who can't even afford food anyway, but who cares right? As long as they can still afford it with their crazy high salaries, it's not their problem...

3 months ago
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Exactly, and it seems some countries are waking up such as Italy and Sweden, i just hope more do.

What stumps me is how numb we are, we all complain on twitter, but go out and strike (not like your government cares) together? Nah that means going out, but if f.e we all won't pay our high electricity bills, they will notice it on their taxes and they can't hire a debt collector on half the country.

3 months ago*
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I don't remember how many tried to tell me the covid shot was "fully tested" when come to find out it was mRNA delivery system that was fully tested and it has many side effect including destroying your immune system if you got to many booster in too short a time frame

3 months ago
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"Destroying your immune system"... This type of wording is really childish. It's like you have no idea of how your body (the trillions of cells that make it up) works.

3 months ago
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Well, that's how a doctor put it.

3 months ago
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Don't be shy, it's this guy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Mercola

3 months ago
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I remember a year or so ago they said on the news that hospitals were filling with non vaccinated people and it was a huge issue and then doctors of those same hospitals were like 'uhm no? not only are we not filled but many who lie here are vaccinated, more than non vaccinated people' but well, that's not what they want you to hear ^^

I think something got lost in translation here, because I remember it quite differently. Percentage-wise the unvaccinated patients outnumbered the vaccinated patients. In absolute numbers the vaccinated patients outnumbered the unvaccinated patients, which makes sense because 80% is vaccinated.

3 months ago
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The problem with those shots is that they were developed so fast that they didn't get tested enough

It's a problem indeed, but if you want THE problem, IMHO the problem is just that they were made mandatory (or de facto mandatory). People who want to take the shot, good for them. People who don't, let's just leave them alone.
My stupid country even prevents me from getting access to certain vaccines (including some that are mandatory for children now). But the covid one, this they tried very, very hard to force on me.

3 months ago*
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At a certain time, people who weren't vaccinated were not allowed in any place such as restaurants, bars, museums (?), etc. Which meant a lot more got the shot just for that, which I think is wrong, but well, lets not start such discussion since I am sure enough people disagree and think forcing a shot is good so yeah, that's why I held back with my comment, to prevent big yes/no discussions :P
I heard in Germany, some places had grocery stores being vaccinated people only, good luck if you, because of health reasons can't have it...

3 months ago
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And looking back how things are going that looks pretty weird. And still seems very weird... Somehow it feels that world has thrown away all of logical reasoning.

I could accept that as society we have failed to maintain capacity in hospitals and as such we need to limit spread in certain groups... But now that even that isn't effective or needed...

3 months ago
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Yeah, I feel more and more that what you say is true, logic, reason and thinking are not normal anymore, the world is changing and not in a good way! :(

3 months ago
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It gave timeframes where we, in germany, weren't allowed to be outside without masks and not allowed to be on the street after time XYZ.
Not allowed to meet friends, if more as 2 people came together. But married people could meet 1 other person (= 3) was ok.
Or people that had covid must be in the flat for X days but their bf/gf, that lived in the same flat, were still forced to go to the work each day.
So in the end, a lot of logical stuff were very far away from real logic.
On top of the "you can't visit cinemas, museums, restaurants, bars, swimming halls etc.". All my reallife friends with kids took the shots only that they can go out with the kids and still visit such places.
And people that needed to go to a state office were only allowed to enter with certificates about their shots, so if they got or wanted money from the state they were forced to get shots.

All that happend with a incidence of ~100.

Nowadays 1000 isn't a problem in any way, masks are enough now.
In bavaria the ocotober fest with ten thousands of (drunk, sweating) people in tents with not much space between the people, "no problem" and oh wonder, a lot of covid cases now after it (surprise, surprise).

Oh and if someone in your house have corona, you aren't informed about it to, as example, wear a mask in the house floor if you want or avoid contact with the ill people.
I had the case in my house and the ill people rent 2 flats, the doors of both flats were often open, the people gone from one flat to the other, often 10 other turkish friends there (in the time when only 2-5 people were allowed), each opened the same house door with their hands, none cared, none informed someone (i needed to kill my immun system, each week, with medicine because of my chronic illness ... so "perfect combination" /sarcasm). I got first aware of it when the ambulance came 3 days in a row, mostly between 1 -3 AM, with up to 6 people. Phone called with the town office and the health office, no chance to get informations if there are infected people in my house or not (i don't wanted to know which ones and told them about my not existing immun system = extremely vulnerable), because of privacy reasons (not from interest how ill i am).

Thats germany....


I got 2x vac. in the past, not to go to special places, only because of my not existing immun system, but i will not take a third one. My immun system is back to a [weak] normal level because of medicine that i don't take anymore and i always avoid big groups of people, don't meet a lot of people etc.. So i don't see the need for a 3th one.


In my family had 2 heavy problems after the shots, both healthy guys in the 20s, and one, with 70 years, a problem with corona/covid, after she had the first shot [maybe a coincidence] (but other chronic illness stuff were active before).

3 months ago*
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Ah yeah, we also has the evening clock, no outside after 21:00, since I never go outside that late I actually forgot about it and then we got a dog again so we were allowed outside anyway, but am sure enough people were not happy!
Also am sure, like you say, that many got the shot just to be able to pick up normal life again because they went crazy sitting inside!

That festivals are okay again makes you wonder, when we had less Corona cased nothing was allowed and now it's all fine and oh look, hundreds of people got Corona again, no big deal! :facepalm:

My upstairs neighbors has visitors over daily, she was pregnant, but who cares? 20+ people over... why not? I mean only 2 are allowed so it's all fine! (not even talking about the constant noise disturbance (which makes it sound way less bad than it was, trust me!!) for me, but nobody cared and if I walked in the hallway and they came past me, you think they waited to give me my distance? nope... I mean why would you right? not like there is a 1,5m distance rule ^^

3 months ago
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I gave a s*** on that orders.

I like to sit in the night on a bench on a hill in a vineyard, think about stuff, enjoy the nature and the "silence".
And i still met 2 friends for Pen & Paper roleplay games because with only one friend would it very unfunny.
But on the other side i only met 5 people/month, so very low contacts, and a lot of people that i know gone each day to work met there 10 - 100 people, after the work in the cinema, bar, restaurant, school, kindergarden, gym etc. up to hundreds, each day. There is for me the difference and why i don't seen my acting as risk. I don't made a party with other people on that hill or someone got in risk because of my behavior.

I know the noise disturbance very well. If you know turkish families you know what i mean (I have a lot of them in my house). 1 AM ? No problem to make party with 10 - 20 people on the balcony that is direct below my sleeping room window (+ all the smoking stuff that got pushed into my sleeping room -i am a none smoker-). I talked with them, a few times, friendly, it helped always very short. At some point i started each time after such a "party" in the morning at 8 AM with loud metal music and vaccum cleaning my flat (my vaccum cleaner is as loud as a plane -sadly no joke-), they weren't happy about it and after 3x repeating that lesson they understood it. Since that time they are lesser annoying.
That a group of 10-20 people is a bit loud isn't a problem for me, with normal timeframes (like 10 AM - 10 PM), but at 1 AM you can be lesser loud and not direct below the sleeping room window of other people in the house.

3 months ago
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Strange they would prevent you from getting access to certain vaccines, for which ones?

3 months ago
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HPV comes to mind. It's not "prevented" literally, but it's prescription-only and most doctors won't prescribe it, so you basically need to find the right doctor and beg for it (arguing for instance that you're in the target population in the US - if not, I guess you're out of luck), and it won't be reimbursed.
There are also a bunch of others, like meningococcus and pneumococcus, which you are not prevented to get but must pay +/- double the base price (for "mandatory" shots it's both cheaper and fully reimbursed) because the only way to get it if you're not in the mandatory population is in a travel vaccination center.
So basically, you pay for other people's vaccines with your tax-payer money and you also pay for your own vaccines at the most expensive price possible. Fun.

3 months ago
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"The problem with those shots is that they were developed so fast that they didn't get tested enough" this is not true. It is something that was and is part of the antivax conspiracy narrative. In most democratic countries, the process for the vaccine to be approved is usually very long, because it takes a lot of research, testing and personnel which requires a lot of funding. Because of the global COVID pandemic which we haven't seen on such a scale in modern history (the last big outbreak of Spanish Flu 100 years ago wasn't as widespread) the funding for a vaccine was much higher and more resources were put into developing a vaccine = more scientific institutions, more personnel. The proto-vaccines were tested in the lab on the volunteers even from the risk groups. It didn't skip any steps, they were just more tests in a shorter period of time and based on how millions of people got the vaccines year ago, it's easy to see that the "long term consequences because of a vaccine" is a myth.

There's a lot of medical articles debunking these common myths and conspirations.

Just a few examples:
https://www.healthline.com/health-news/doctors-debunk-9-popular-covid-19-vaccine-myths-and-conspiracy-theories#Myth:-The-COVID-19-vaccine-will-cause-long-term-complications
https://www.bu.edu/articles/2021/myths-vs-facts-covid-19-vaccine/
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-17430-6
https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2021/05/14/vaccine-rejectors-believe-vaccines-not-tested
https://www.mayoclinichealthsystem.org/hometown-health/featured-topic/covid-19-vaccine-myths-debunked
https://www.health.gov.au/initiatives-and-programs/covid-19-vaccines/is-it-true/is-it-true-were-covid-19-vaccines-developed-too-quickly-to-be-safe

3 months ago
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Disclaimer: I did get my vaccines, even boosters, might even get another one which would make it my fifth, but I'm undecided as of yet.

What I believe that severely fuelled people's suspicions is the lack of proper information shared on this matter. Very simply put: We are told that it takes years of research and testing to develop a vaccine, yet this one was released after a year or so. So how come it was released so quickly? Phase 3 of clinical trials alone should have taken longer than that. The only explanation I've encountered by mainstream media is that because it is a coronavirus a lot of research was already done and could be re-used, and due to its global impact researchers worldwide gathered and shared information faster than usual.

Okay, that explains the research part, but it still doesn't explain why the clinical trials were done so quickly. Which in turn can lead to suspicion that certain elements of the trial were skipped, or simply not done properly. Something that didn't help, is that specific important information in the early stages of the virus were underexposed. Things such as that the patients with worst outcomes were obese. This was information shared by Chinese researches in the earliest stages of the outbreak. (I linked to a pubmed, but news about this was shared even earlier through social media of foreign outlets.)

Another thing I remember from the early stages of the outbreak in Wuhan, so it hadn't yet reached my country (The Netherlands): Our PBS arranged for live coverage where people could send in their questions about the virus and experts would answer these as accurately as they possibly can. Sounds great, right? So an obvious question was: "What are the chances that it will reach us?", and the answer made even me laugh (and even scared that they would say this live to millions of people!) as someone who only has the most elementary knowledge of biology: "The chances are very small, because we do not have direct flights between here and Wuhan." Like bruh, what? Not only had the virus already spread outside of Wuhan, it even reached outside of China before this broadcast aired. So how is any of that relevant? Even if it was exclusively in Wuhan, and Wuhan was in complete confinement, we still didn't know exactly how the virus was spread, so why wouldn't it be able to travel out?

Anyway, another thing that didn't help was that the biggest supplier of this vaccine was subject of the largest health case fraud settlement in history.

tl;dr: Sorry for the rant lol. Point is, whether it was due to a combination of unfortunate events and confusion among researchers, maybe even incompetency, or our overlords preparing us for zeh great reset, it doesn't really matter cause the end result is the same: Early information was extremely deficient, and first impressions matter. So all of this will create FUD in people's minds. I think it is only logical that so many 'conspiracy theories' came out, especially when looking at it from a distance and seeing everything else unfold worldwide right after the other.

3 months ago
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A few of my friends from high school work in the field of biochemistry, virology and immunology. So during the pandemic I was mainly talking with them about this topic since I my expertise are in different fields. I agree with a part of what you are saying - we underestimated COVID and the speed at which it could spread. In many cases media didn't help, because they are mostly in it just for money or for their supporters (notorious Fox and their Fox News parroting Trump). Even so, many media or some members of many governments (even our own) were trying to undermine the seriousness of the issue to cynically strengthen their position with the part of the population that was against the vaccines, lockdown or any protective measures. On the other hand there were medias and politicians who wrongly thought that lightening up the subject will cause that people will not go into panic. Wrong again.

And then there's the research itself. What my friends told me, who are now working in different countries in research instutites, that many projects were put on hold or were redirected into the virus and vaccine research. And about the testing? I was curious as well, how could it be properly tested in that time? And the answer was that because of how widely COVID spread and that we didn't have such a pandemic outbreak in modern history, there were many volunteers and cases of different ages groups, with different other health issues, Also this virus worked quite fast compared to flu or SARS viruses. The virulence was/is pretty high, the incubation period pretty short and the symptoms in many cases identifiable fast.

The thing that it mutates more then they anticipated only came from the knowledge that they had at the time. If you encounter a new virus that acts similar to other viruses, it's hard to anticipate that it would mutate so fast, because you are basing your prognosis on the knowledge you have at tie time. And even if you say I am not sure, it's just a prognosis media and government will always misinterpret to "scientists say/scientists are sure/scientists find out..." This happens even with less immediate threats or problems, because clickbaits sell.

Anyway, I had three shots, want booster now and with each shot - I was never told that I wouldn't need another. The process was that I had at first a talk with a doctor who was going over a checklist of problems of a risk group, if I am not a member then acknowledging that the vaccine isn't 100% but it's the best thing we have so far. I had to sign papers that I want and agree with and I was informed about the effects. From my perspective, this process was correct, I wasn't led on to believe that now I will be invincible to covid, but that my chances of having negative effects is much lower.

For me the problem was the whole underestimation of the issue at the beginning and then poor service of some members of some governments and media. But mostly the whole disinformation and antivax campaigns that put even more people at risk. At first it made me angry, but now it mostly makes me sad that we choose to believe some randoms without any expertise but with a loud mouth instead of experts and researchers. The whole COVID issue shows how so many people are in denial or lack the basics of critical thinking and ability to handle information.

3 months ago
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Seems that I'm forced to take my third shot as I'm planning to go on a cruise from Dubai in January... Otherwise I could not care less.

3 months ago
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Sorry to hear about your troubles and my condolences.
I am not sure about a booster. I did get vaccinated twice. But mainly for my dad. He already had a lung disease (was on oxygen etc) so he was at extreme high risk, He died too (not of corona). So I don't need to get boosted for him.
The second corona shot made me sick as f for a day.
I am not in a risk group.
I am not not very outgoing.
The variant that is going around now isn't as dangerous as the previous ones. (but caan still be very dangerous ofc)
Adding those things up, I can't say a third shot is high on my to do list.

That being said, I don't think the vaccinations are dangerous. No vaccination is a 100% safe. But yeh, if I was in your sutuation I would start getting my doubts too.

3 months ago
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Thank you. And condolences to you too.

Yeah but when children get their shots for measles etc, you don't hear any stories of those that get sick or die.
Yet there are many stories going around now about the covid vaccin and it's just a fact that it just wasn't properly tested unlike the others, there is a difference.

3 months ago
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Thank you.

There are stories where some of the standard shots for children go wrong. The chance is very slim though. But every shot or medication can have side effects. But it's true that those vaccinations have been around for dozens of years so of course we know more about them.
COVID studies are relatively new. But they have already been working on SARS (2003) and MERS (2012) which are the base of the current COVID vaccinations. When the pandemic started, all pharmaceutical companies have been working around the clock because if they found the answer first, they would be richhhhh, So the vaccinations didn't come falling out of thin air.

I have no idea if guidelines/regulations for testing has changed during the worst part of the pandemic. I would like to think the guidelines stayed the same in Europe and they didn't push the vaccination trough because of the urgency. But perhaps it's a little naive. But it would kinda suck if you can't trust your doctor with your medications/vaccinations/illnesses.

I am not pro vaccination or anti vaccination btw. Everybody should do their own research and draw their own conclusion what if safe safe for them and/or their environment.

(I was very pro basic rules. Keeping distance etc. It is really not that hard. But us Dutchies always have to complain about something :P. I told everybody in the supermarket to keep their distance in they were too close because I was doing groceries for dad. One "wappie" even attacked me for it. :P)

3 months ago
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Oh a dutchie didn't notice. :p

I am afraid we have been a bit naive maybe after all. And in the end doctors are also just humans, and they can just as well make mistakes, wouldn't be a first.

I found the distancing hard, when you got small aisles, and little kids doing groceries and don't care at all, or you want to go left with your cart and another the same direction and you are like who goes first. :p
My dad loved to go to the action, but my mom and i let him (being in the risk group) stay at home and i did it for him too (even though i am also mildly in the risk group with diabetes why i decided then on 2 pfizers) because the other side of IC or long covid didn't bode well with me either.

I was at a job experience place but they didn't care one bit about covid, small workplace, made me decide to leave there (aside from an agressive coworker).

3 months ago
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Yeap, all the way Dutch over here (even the bunnies were Holland Lops :P). Not that it is something to be proud of these days. We have serious first world complaining issues :D

Of course doctors make mistakes, everybody does. And being a doctor is also always a learning area. They simply can't know everything about the human body as nobody does. I once had a side effect of medication that gave me bad hallucinations for 8 hours. There was about 0.02% chance of it and I hit the jackpot.

Yeh, in the supermarket it is difficult with the small aisles. Little kids, yeh, kids are kids, just let them run trough if the parents dont watch out for them. But with a bit of patience and politeness you come still come very far. :) The people who on purpose didn't keep distance were the ones that annoyed me. In my local supermarket come people from about 10 old folks homes and 3 handicapped school/daycare places. And and many people didn't respect their personal space on purpose.

My dad got sick before corona, so there was no vaccination yet when the pandemic started. So he wasn't allowed (by me and my brother) to do shopping, church, free masonry etc at all. It sucked of course, but unfortunately it was the situation.

A friend of mine also got lung covid even though she is vaccinated, young and healthy/sporty. She still has trouble after months. It's really not fun.

Good you quit, you should never be in a job environment where you don't feel comfortable.

3 months ago
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Dat liedje van het Goede Doel - Belgie vind ik nog zo passend (Ik wil niet wonen in Lapland, Want Lapland dat is me te koud
En ik wil weg uit Nederland, Want hier krijg ik het benauwd.) Ik hou van nederland maar als ik de jackpot won zou ik denk ik onderhand ook verhuizen, want ja als wij elders willen gaan, krijgen we geen gratis huisje en zak geld he...). :p

Yeah it's sad when people didn't care about social distancing, heck even people not wearing masks (yes if you got certain illnesses you don't had to wear one, but with some people i don't think they had one of those things).

And yeah long covid must also suck, back then that and a long stay IC scared the hell out of it and decided to take those 2 pfizers.
Now it seems more a choice between 2 bads. Hope your friends recovers from it eventually (which also seems uncertain i believe people really ever will?).

Yeah but not like the boss really did his best (imo) to actually get me a job, i mean he had people being there for over 3 years, he basically gets free employer doing things for him. I was going to another one but then another corona wave popped up.
But offcourse i need a job eventually and my CV isn't already great and the longer i stay without the more problems it creates again with companies (they says jobs everywhere, but yeah no only in hospitality, healthcare, and sales but i am not fit for those), for the rest they still ask 10 years of experience while being 25 years (age is also still a factor).. :p

3 months ago
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Dat is zeker een passend liedje ja. :D

I actually have one of them "illnesses" that I legally didn't have to wear a mouth mask. I have a bad panic disorder and "lack of fresh air" can trigger it and hyperventilation too. Especially in the beginning the mouth masks felt really "panicy" for me. But doing groceries during opening and closing times while it's not crowded helps a lot. Just get in and get out in 5-10 minutes. So I always worn a mask but I did adjust my schedule accordingly so I didn't have to wear one for long periods. In a work place I wouldn't be able to wear one for 8 hours.

But indeed from what I have seen, most of the people who weren't even be able to do the basic rules. They weren't in any way sick. But certain groups just didn't care. I won't mention which ones because then I will be racist, ageist, sexists and studentist and probably more ist all together at once and us dutch will cry about it :P
(ik stem overigens strategisch, dus de laatste jaren links, ik ben ver weg van ook maar iets dat facistisch is.:P)

Being certain of a job, depending of your field of expertise had drastically changed during corona. Asking for 10 years experience when you are 25 years old, that's a little disturbing We aren't in Bangladesh right? :P

3 months ago
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En dat is ook al wat er mis aan is in dit land, dat je denkt te moeten distantiëren als je wel rechts zou stemmen want automatisch facist/racist/nazi (en "wappie") en links "woke".
Er zijn ook zat mensen in een "midden" die gewoon zich genaaid (gaan) voelen bij welke partij ook en het niet meer zo weten, maar bepaalde dingen gewoon even zat zijn hoe het gaat hier.

Van dat werk was maar een licht bedoeld voorbeeld, maar bedrijven willen je wel het liefst zo jong mogelijk, met zoveel mogelijk ervaring, probeer maar ergens als nieuwkomer op latere leeftijd weer iets anders nog te willen leren, het is moeilijk.

3 months ago*
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Ik heb ook moeite met stemmen. Ik ben niet rechts of links, ik zit ook in het midden. Ik neem stemmen wel serieus. Vorige keer was ik het qua standpunten het meeste eens met de VVD en Groenlinks. Dat zijn nou niet echt partijen die op elkaar lijken. :P
Ik denk ook dat veel mensen met een onderbuik gevoel stemmen. Ze zijn boos door verschillende crissisen. Dus stemmen ze vaak boos op Wilders of Baudet. Ik ben blij dat we in een democratie leven en iedereen een mening mag hebben. Maar de stemmen op die mannen/partijen kan ik echt niet serieus nemen. Baudet dwaalt steeds verder van het pat af, en Wilders zegt alleen "nee" zonder oplossingen te bieden. En niemand wil met ze regeren.

Ja, een baan is lastig. Het liefste willen ze goedkope jonge nieuwkomers of iets oudere met veel ervaring. Sommige sectoren hebben mensen nodig, andere zitten weer stamvol. Het is zeker moeiijk.
Ik wens je veel succes :)

3 months ago
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Ik heb LPF gestemt, PVV, SP (wel sociaal maar als communisten gezien omdat ze hun salaris inleveren. en worden dus nooit groot), en ja ik was zelfs even voor FVD maar sinds mensen zijn weggelopen inclusief Baudet zelf en met complotten komt als dat 9/11 niet waar is, dan ben je ook erg ver van dat pad af ja.
En nog keertje PVDA toen met samson om de VVD dwars te liggen en niet de grootste te laten worden, ik zal iig nooit VVD, D66 of CU stemmen. En nu? Ja niks gewoon.
Wat er nu gebeurd is gewoon een links D66 kaag beleid wat gevoerd wordt, niet die van de VVD, hun zouden nu spotjes maken dat ze de instroom van vluchtelingen willen minderen, maar er zijn deals gemaakt met het COA dat er nog heel veel komen.

Maar inderdaad niemand wil met Baudet of Wilders werken, de BBB is het ook niet helemaal, en naja omzigt maar die is zo labiel en wist ook niet zeker of hij wel voor een partij ging?

Maar te veel partijen werken niet, maar 2 (republikeinen versus democraten) werkt ook niet, dus ja wat wel? Ik denk neutrale partijen wat een omzigt kan zijn, maarja. Ik riep altijd als ik de jackpot win kom ik zelf wel met een partij (iedereen als nieuwkomer is welkom maar zonder veel promotie te maken kom je er ook bijna niet), BBB is puur met geluk meegelift op de boeren.

Ja verkopers, zorg, horeca maar dat moet je ook maar net liggen, het zijn mensen mensen banen, maar als je een type bent (met een achtergrond) dat het liefst in z'n uppie achter z'n computertje werkt dan tsja. ;) Ik heb het weleens geprobeerd, pas nog als logistiek medewerker, het werk was geheel te leren, werkten mensen met autisme (had ik ervaring mee, en ben rustig) maar ze vonden me toch uiteindelijk niet "passen" maar was wel welkom de site te bekijken voor andere vacatures.

Dankje.

3 months ago
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But it would kinda suck if you can't trust your doctor with your medications/vaccinations/illnesses.

You can trust your doc as much as you want and he can be a really great guy but he get his informations about vaccines (and medicine in general) from the pharma companies. Direct or indirect with studies that are paid from the pharma companies, written stuff from docs that get paid from the pharma companies (in the end they only sign at the bottom a advertising text).
One of my ex-gf worked in a, small, pharma company and seen how the paid "doc reviews" and paid studies worked.

As example had all my docs, that i trust, recommended me in the past the vac. against pig flu.
Sounded good and logical because of my not existing immun system but i had a bad feeling and wanted to wait longer. They made a lot of pressure because of my high risk etc..
After a timeframe it came out that it gave 2 dif. vac..
The one for the normal people had mercury in it, and none don't know that mercury is harmful for the human body.
The one that only, high?, politicans got hadn't mercury in it.
Later they found out that the first one raised the risk to get the pig flu by x8 for teens.
And in the end only very very very low amounts of people got sick or died of the pig flu. Much lesser as from the normal flu.

I want to show with it that my doctors had for sure not a bad intention but the data/infos that they recieved were from the pharma companies or their lobby and because that far from neutral. The docs could only judge on the basis of this infos (that don't had the mercury part or other important details in it) and the result was a complete different one as when they known all or when they mixed the medicine by their own.

3 months ago
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Oh, I am very well aware of the motivation of big pharmaceuticals. They are basically legal drugs dealers. They don't care about making people healthy, they only care if there is money in it for them. There are several medications to cure or help rare illnesses. But those aren't on the market because the illness is rare so bringing it on the market is super expensive and health insurance won't cover it. So it is "better to let them people die" in their eyes.
It one big mobster family.

However I do hope that here in Europe (and everywhere else of course) that independent doctors who aren't bought off do the testing to see if it's safe. But maybe it is naive or wishful thinking. :)

3 months ago
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My problem - with how public opinon is created aroud those vaccines is that they are all good and there is no risk at all.
There is no such thing on the entire planet.

You can get cancer just from taking injection - any injection xD At least when you are a cat :) Idk maybe humans have the same risk? Add to that that any vaccine may have impact on your immune system.

But no! Covid shot is sacred and it doesn't have any risks!

Lets judge this objectivelly. You shood take vaccine if it benefits are more important than risks.
I vaccined myself and my kids against various dideases. And yet - I don't take flu shot - no matter how hard they are trying to sell it to me :) Flu is changing fast enough that year old vaccine is ineffetive.
With covid the situation is even worse. Virus itself is changing even faster, but vaccine itself provides immunity for max 6 months. You cant create herd immunity with any of current vaccines - so why even bother? and spend astronomical amount of money

3 months ago
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Even worse. It doesn't always provide immunity at least against current variants. Just makes symptoms less bad.

What worries me is that it could be destroying trust in other vaccines that usually provide immunity.

3 months ago
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No idea who is telling you that there are no risks but every reliable doctor and agency weighs the risks of a vaccine against the good it will do. That's why they make recommendations about who should be vaccinated, at which age and under which health circumstances. The COVID-19 vaccines aren't treated any differently than other vaccines.

But the final part of your comment suggests me that you made that up anyway, to support your anti-COVID vaccine stance with some fictional claim.

3 months ago
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I work in a field strongly connected to infectious diseases and have quite good source :) Studies were not published though because it would be bad for public xD

But here - have first google search result. According to data suggested time for booster shot is 6 months. Also note that all those covid passports (that allows you for example to eat in restaurant in Germany) require new vaccines in designed periods of time (differences between countries applies). Guess why? Are you really interested in that topic? You call that fictional claims, but I'm sure, that your only source of informations about covid is what you read/hear in media.

In this study, the probabilities of having an anti–SARS-CoV-2 antibody titer of less than 70% or less than 80% at 6 months after the second shot were 0% and 11%, respectively, in participants weighing less than 55 kg, whereas they were 17% and 41%, respectively, in those weighing 55 kg or greater. These results suggest that a booster shot may be applied at 6 months or later (eg, at 8 months) in young and middle-aged adults who weigh less than 55 kg, whereas a booster shot should be considered at 6 months for young and middle-aged adults who weigh 55 kg or greater. The use of antipyretic was not associated with anti–SARS-CoV-2 antibodies at 6 months in simple linear regression, the multivariate linear regression model, or the adjusted logistic regression model. The association between antipyretic use and anti–SARS-CoV-2 antibodies needs to be studied in the future.

Our results provide important information regarding longitudinal dynamics of the immune response to BNT162b2 vaccination. On the basis of recent studies,9,17,18 a booster shot (third shot) is recommended at around 6 months after the second dose of the BNT162b2 vaccine. Although vaccination has a definite benefit,1 serious adverse events have been reported. The most notable adverse event of the mRNA vaccine is myocarditis, which is more common in young individuals.19-21 Therefore, we have to consider detailed strategies for booster shots to maintain effective immunization and minimize adverse events. Our cohort study found a wide distribution of anti–SARS-CoV-2 antibody levels and maintenance of a high level of antibodies at 6 months after the second dose of BNT162b2 vaccine in persons weighing less than 55 kg. A longer serial follow-up for anti–SARS-CoV-2–specific antibody levels can provide the optimal booster timing for this population. Our findings have implications not only for dose timing but also the dose (ie, volume) itself. Our findings suggest that individuals with greater weight should receive a higher dose than individuals with lower weight. However, this study was conducted among young and middle-aged healthy individuals (BMI range, 17-29), not among individuals with severe obesity. It is uncertain whether the inverse association of weight and immunogenity can be applied to individuals with BMI of 30 or greater.

Note that even that might be correlated with bmi - and studies did not included obese people.
Read more if you want.
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2792387

The COVID-19 vaccines aren't treated any differently than other vaccines

Bruh. If I visit your country - I still can't enter some institutions/shops without covid vaccination. Or in restaurant I have to takeaway food instead of sitting there and eating normally. Not to mention that a lot of countries bought shitload of vaccine with money from taxes (read: our money).

It's the same shit over and over again. They tried to do the same with avian flu couple of years ago but failed.

3 months ago
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Interesting. I questioned your suggestion about claims that there are absolutely no risks related to the COVID-19 vaccines.
And your answer is a wall of text about antibody titer over time.

And your answers to my point that COVID-19 vaccines receive the same risk/benefit assessment as other vaccines, is that different pandemic regulations exist in different countries.

What a surprise, another person with self-claimed superior insider knowledge ("I work in a field strongly connected to infectious diseases") who then fails to even remotely address the topic.

3 months ago
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But the final part of your comment suggests me that you made that up anyway

I gave you quotation with data about final part of my comment. Since that is what you pointed out about false claims.

And your answers to my point that COVID-19 vaccines receive the same risk/benefit assessment as other vaccines, is that different pandemic regulations exist in different countries.

=\=

The COVID-19 vaccines aren't treated any differently than other vaccines

Maybe write in more understandable manner next time? Yeah - compare measles with flu-shot. Then Compare measles with covid vaccine. It has nothing to with logic.

You have to take into consideration risk of disease itself and vaccination risk. But ALSO costs and how effective that vaccination would be. There is no country insane enough to force it's citizens to take flu shots.

Insider knowledge? It's just data from polish "Sanepid". Don't have access to source so I just posted literally first article I found in google. Really - you don't need my inside data to read other sources right? It's legit stuff - and quite obvious if you take into consideration rules that work with covid passports. You have to constantly repeat those vaccinations to have antibodies level high enough to protect you. Also not only covid-19 but ALL of coronaviruses are changing really fats. This is basic knowledge.

I questioned your suggestion about claims that there are absolutely no risks related to the COVID-19 vaccines.

If in your country, there was a clear message about potential side effects - good for you. I might be wrong because I watched only our own media and read our own government site with FAQ about vaccines. My bad. I shouldn't assume that every other country was presenting vaccines in so one-sided manner.

3 months ago
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You don't understand where Golwar is coming from. You said

My problem - with how public opinon is created aroud those vaccines is that they are all good and there is no risk at all.

And that couldn't be further from the truth. Before I got my vaccine, I was given a booklet to read on all the possible side effects. What to look out for etc. To say that they pushed us to get it and told us there were no risks is a blatant lie. We all knew the risks, just that they outweighed the risks for getting the disease.

3 months ago
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Well you got a booklet, i don't remember ever getting/seeing one, that might really differ per country (even shot location).

3 months ago
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But the WHO were openly talking about all of this stuff. Our national RTE news was talking about it. The BBC was talking about it. It was all over the international news as well.

Surely all of the European countries were following the same advice?

Ireland was looking at what happened in Italy. We took our cues from that disaster and they closed down the country to prevent the disease from overwhelming the hospital system. We also looked at what Norway was doing. Turned out that it wasn't smart to try heard immunity. Number of deaths were greater than ours per capita. And so on.

All the facts are out there in the open.

I can accept that some countries didn't bother with information leaflets and the like, but still should have been informed though national news sources.

3 months ago
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Talk about corona, advice on wearing mouth masks etc? Sure. But side effects? No, what program would do that?
And you can't continously repeat that to people because that's not interesting to talk about (or scare off people to get their injection).

People were already avoiding Astro Zenica and J&J vaccins because of their issues.

Never once i read or heard anywhere like, well pfizer gives you:
20% on bloodclots
50% heartfailure
30% winning the lottery.

3 months ago
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Well as I said to the other commenter, this is what we were handed:
https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/covid-19-resources-and-translations/covid-19-vaccine-materials/pfizer-moderna-janssen-and-novavax-booklet1.pdf

And before I got that leaflet, I already knew about all of the risks since it was talked about over and over.

And there is NO WAY that there's a 20% chance of bloodclots, or a 50% chance of heart failure. That's hysteria. 1 in 10,000 chance of myocarditis (spelling?) as was outlined by the WHO.

3 months ago
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Oh so i do still have 30% to win the lottery? :D

As that was said they were just some random things with random numbers i said,
But a) Extremely rare Frequency not known yet = not a good thing b) You are handing out a booklet made during the vaccination (start) and therefor already (too) old, if they can't even predict the amount of extremely rare cases, how can they say how people react to it after having had the shot? They can't, because it didn't go through the 5 year testing period, because it had to be hasted.

3 months ago
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Well, I got cancer during the covid lockdown and I am very happy to have taken my vaccines + booster shot because it didn't interfere with my treatment or hospital stay.

I eventually got covid in June of this year after the mask mandates ended. But if I wasn't vaccinated, it would have been much worse since my immune system likely wasn't back to full strength.

I have to take a chemo drug for 5 years. I know it has side effects, but I just have to take it for a better long term outcome. End of story. Such is life. My mum took the same drug while it was still experimental back in the 90s. We do what we need to do.

Anti vaxers claim that vaccines given to us as children and have been a long time around have caused this, that and the other in their children in more recent year. Well, we all got the shots and we're fine.

There are side effects to every medication you'll ever take. If you read the leaflets that accompany them and were scared of 1 in 10,000 kinda stats, you'd never take them.

3 months ago*
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I agree with you that people that got fragile health should atleast consider taking the vaccin (although i would be doubtful as a heart patient but so be it).

I really wish you well, that you don't get many side effects and the cancer stays away.

3 months ago*
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Only your doctors can advise you on the right course of action there. I know that some people would be advised not to get it.

I'm not saying to you to get vaccinated, just arguing the benefits vs getting the disease without vaccine.

MRNA vaccines degrade and are broken down by the body within days. They've done their job telling your body how to make the protein needed to help fight off covid. If side effects are going to happen, it'll be within the first couple weeks. I don't think any of us will be growning any extra arms after 5 years like my conspiracy theory aunt likes to warn Hehe!

3 months ago
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Yeah thanks to covid too, you can also wait 12 months on a specialist (or 24 when they screw up).

I know, and i urge anyone to freely speak their minds (while staying reasonable).

Damn an extra set of arms was just what i needed the other things i could do while playing games, guess i'll have to stop knitting 4 arm sweaters then (oh that was so fun being in school forced to learn to knit on your friday afternoons).

3 months ago
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You edited in, so i add some more reply.

There are people even going so far that anti vaxxers dont wan't blood from someone that had a vaccin, they want a seperate bloodbank, or don't want children from a vaxxer. It goes very far in this world (but with more things).

As i already said in OP, about the american commercial, i know because i seen them for real (even if i don't live there) that goes even a bit farther then your average chance on a headache or belly ache.
I was really shocked the first time i heard it and i can't remember what medicine it was for but apparently enough people take it else they wouldn't exist anymore, but apparently such disclaimer is "normal' (and taken for granted).

3 months ago
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Nice.
Guess my country still treats people as cattle xD
Shouldn't assume that it's everywhere like that :)

3 months ago
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Yep definitely not received anything remotely like that.

1 on 10000 risk of myocarditis with pfizer, that is a lot.

3 months ago*
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I in 10,000 is not a huge risk. Geez. People who contract Covid have the same risk of getting myocarditis from it as well. People have gotten it from Covid without being vaccinated. I actually know someone. No joke. While unpleasant, it's generally treatable either way if people know what to look for.

EDIT: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7199677/
(so you see I am not talking out of my butt lol.)

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I'll bet you in a lottery pool you would dance at those odds, because you know your chances feel high, when it's a risk on a thing like this it's not a huge risk..

That's a bit crooked to say, oh if you get covid you can get myocarditis too anyway so you might as well take that shot.

Yes generally and a big if when people know they have/had it, it's still ones heart..
And i got cardiomyopathy, i got no clue what myocarditis (what in a name) does that add..I would have like to known.

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I didn't say that. You can't go putting words in my mouth and call me crooked. I said you have the same risk of getting it from the disease. It's rare both ways.

Myocarditis is inflammation of the heart muscle and treatable. Not nice though. The person that I know who got this back in 2020 is grand now.

If you have a town of 10,000 people facing another serious disease that can be vaccinated, and 2000 of them are over 65 or have other health conditions that puts them at much greater risk of dying from it. But you are told 1 person might get myocarditis. Would you still campaign against it? Myocarditis treatment and recovery can take about 6 weeks, so it's generally curable. Only in rare cases it leads to heart failure.

3 months ago
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Not calling you crooked, but the line how you said it that way, that's it's not a reason one should get a vaccin because oh you would have a chance on getting myocarditis anyway from covid.

Oh because rare cases do not happen, what if such a rare case is what happened with my father? That was a heart patient and died of shortness of breath.
And i still have no clue what the result would be of cardiomyopathy with myocarditis (i am getting sick of these words so late at night) what will be my odds of risking such a rare case?

People winning the lottery are also very slim, yes, but there is still always 1 person (or sometimes several) that win.
Just as there are unlucky people that "win" a bad lottery. Never say never.

3 months ago*
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Wow - I really like that. Nothing like this in here though.

3 months ago
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I'm not here to debate anything because I don't wanna open up that can of worms, but all I'll say is that unless all those people had problems immediately after their boosters then that's just forced correlation with no real provable one. You could probably find any number of common factors between those people and blame it on any of them, this is just looking for a scape goat.

3 months ago
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You can't deny it's been put on the market without it ever been fully tested enough though (and thus now see the outcoming results).

And yes i seen American tv commercials about medicine that warn about strokes, epilepsy, even death and people seemingly still take those medicine too, but atleast they are warned.

3 months ago
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Everything you put in your body can have unwanted effects especially any medical treatment, this is a vaccine and like any other one on God's green Earth it can and will have side effects, overwhelmingly minor though, the whole point is to trigger an immune response and create antibodies which will make you feel sick temporarily. Again, you're reaching for causation without any actual proof. "Suddenly" got a stroke? It's a stroke, it does not give you a heads up, and they happen regularly from a million different reasons and you can find any link you can dream of between those people and blame it on that. My best guess is that all those people are on the older side, old people have strokes, it's common, I have 0 grandparents left and they had strokes ages ago. Spoiler none of those were from vaccines, they didn't take any, they just happen. You're angry I get it, you're looking for someone or something to blame. The vaccines aren't it. I know 0 people with any issues from vaccines, those that got Covid though without vaccines are dealing with long term issues. You should fear covid way more than the vaccines, it's been 2 years, safe to say they've been "tested" plenty. Do what you will but you are spreading dangerous rhetoric with 0 provable causation or correlation, just looking for something to blame.

3 months ago
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Just because you know 0 people with issues (that they even know of, you can't look inside a body without tests), doesn't mean others don't.
Just as you can have plenty of family members/friends around you that have (had) cancer, while f.e my family relatively (thankfully) not.
Why don't you hear anything about kids with their measles and what not vaccins not getting sick or die, yet plenty of stories going around about the covid one?

As i said elsewhere, yes atheletes died on the field of sudden heart issues too long before covid. i even shrugged it off as that till now.
I am not looking for something to blame nor am i any way advocating to take or not take a vaccin, i am atleast saying this for people (still undecided) to raise an eyebrow and inform yourself very well, many are on the fence about it right now and many are growing more to a no.
Is it not a coincidence, no correlation? Then don't let it guide you.

I am not angry, it doesn't bring my dad back or change it for my mother. I am past having useless emotions that doesn't a change anything, long ago.

3 months ago*
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I can and will deny that it has been put on the market without being fully tested. Everything you've brought up shows that you don't understand how any of this works, and are drinking the anti-vax Kool-Aid.

3 months ago
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The technology for those MRNA vaccines had been around for a while. Obviously, the intention wasn't to use them for a covid vaccine. But they had some success treating cancers, and had been working on a cure for MS as well. They adapted that technology since it was already available.

Some uneducated people are like "oh it's going to change our DNA" and spreading hysteria because they didn't actually read any peer reviewed medical research. If they had, they'd understand that the vaccine itself is just a messenger, and it is no longer in your system after a couple days. They just looked at opinion blogs or videos random people wrote online and went from there. Any of us could say we are a doctor and make a video on Youtube.

Covid is a new disease, so they are still learning about it. Thankfully it seems to have become less deadly, and I hope it stays that way.

And to be honest, if every bastard that had cold/flu symptoms wore a mask when in public, (especially on public transport) we'd probably not see much of it spreading through the community. Less flus too.

Two grandaunts of mine didn't have the opportunity to get the vaccine. Both caught covid and died before there was a vaccine available. At that time, people were dying of Covid left, right and center. Even a 52 year old doctor at a nearby hospital who was otherwise healthy lost his life.

Over 90% of the population are now vaccinated in my country and the death rate from the disease has gone down significantly. There's some denial about that among vaccine skeptics. But it's easy to say "covid isn't that bad" when there's a reason that it has less teeth now.

3 months ago
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Aren't there parts of china with a lot of smog where a lot of people are wearing masks? Easy to check flu numbers there.

Sorry to hear about your losses.

3 months ago
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Might be biased but for context I almost certainly got COVID before the vaccines came out and nowadays I have to constantly worry about my asthma that has returned with a vengenace after I thought I had gotten over years ago. In my opinion, people have acclimated back to a certain degree of normality that lets them forget just how bad it got for some people or how deleterious COVID and its longterm effects could be.

One of the major reasons why the potential side effects for the vaccines were accepted were because they were often similar to the worst effects of COVID (except at a much reduced frequency). Strokes and TIA? COVID caused that in people. Heart problems? COVID caused that too. Breathing problems? COVID definitely killed people with that. I can't help but feel that people have forgotten that tidbit with the flood of recent events but long-term detrimental effects from COVID occured even in asymptomatic cases and we had over a year where vaccines didn't exist and tests were at a premium. I know all this quite well because I spent months meticulously reading up on the topic because it had already become a threat to my health, wellbeing, and potentially my life.

I get it, okay. I get it. But at the same time I can't help but feel so tired and defeated when people say things like "trusting the government (often a euphemism for doctors and medical experts) was a 'mistake'" when I know for a fact that it's usually just people's knowledge gap being taking advantage of. I'm just so, so tired of hearing rhetoric from people that wouldn't care whether I lived or died come from the mouths of people I like. I get it, okay. You have every right to grieve your losses. I get it.

I'm sorry for your loss.

3 months ago
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Thank you, also for the very insightful bit.

Sorry to hear on your side that there are people that dont care whether you lived or died, those people shouldn't be worth it for you to still care for them, surround yourself with people that do care.

3 months ago
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I'm of the opinion that if anyone has so much as a sniffle, they should wear a mask when in the supermarket, public transport etc. If people adopted that attitude of just caring about others, then there would be no need for mask mandates.

3 months ago
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I'll put as many as they're willing to give of these in me.

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You are taking 2 booster shots (so 4 vaccines in total)? Do you know which type of vaccines that the one who got stroke received and how many are they taking? Just want to make sure if it has something to do with the type of vaccines or the number of vaccines that you take.

3 months ago
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Oh no, i meant i took 2 pfizers total. I think my mother also had Pfizer (and my dad). We had Astro Zeneca but that gave blood clots in people so many that didn't wanted to take that one.

No, i doubt the housekeeper asked each client what type of vaccin they used, let alone tell me. But you are absolutely right, that every vaccin is put into the same pond, that maybe a pfizer is bad, but another less, i am not ruling out it could be one specific vaccin.
But they all weren't properly tested wen they started with them.

3 months ago
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Yeah, i agree that the vaccine was too quickly enforced for general use. It is kinda understandable though, they need to do something since people are dropping fast. I myself havent heard anything about people dying from taking too many vaccine here (or maybe they are hidden from the media), but my friend (which is far from where i am) talked about this too in the past so i was kinda curious.

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If you already had 2 boosters, I see no reason for you to be afraid of any further ones (as long as you get the same one). You clearly don't have any side effects and the benefits of being safe from the virus are significant.

3 months ago
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No i meant i had 2 vaccins, no boosters (i changed that bit).

I already had cardiomyopathy due a genetic thing, it's an enlarged muscle that for the moment don't give me issues but they can't predict how it will go in the future (pacemaker thing and bags of medicine like my dad or not)
You can't ever say for sure how that changed inside unless you get an echo/mri.

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Is this the third or fourth time in areas where vaccination is usually more common?

When you have done so much human experimentation and are now evading vaccine injections, there will be a strong issue of emotionalism, like a religion, where any accumulation of scientific research has no meaning.
(Or something like political distrust.)

If there is anything to be concerned about, it would be that the "quality of the insured medical facilities and transportation infrastructure where vaccines are administered" varies from region to region.

In a manner of speaking, the vaccine is considered safe as long as it is not so badly administered, but I have a feeling that the reason something strange happens is that the news reports strongly include stories of doctors committing subsidy fraud with the number of vaccinations they give without giving the real vaccine.

I lost my grandmother in a place where corona was strongly suspected before the vaccine was available, and we recently had another corona case in the family.
However, because she had been vaccinated, she recovered with only a hairy cold.

At this time of year, if you are afraid of the new "bivalent" vaccine, are you willing to wait and see just a little longer?
Why not just get the "flu vaccine" if you've been waiting to see how it goes for so long?

I feel that it is time to start worrying only about "coronas" and the possibility of suffering from other infections.☣💉🤔💊🏥

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You started out okay, but can we please refrain from the insults and keep it clean?

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can't just be a coincidence anymore.

corellation =/= causation
it's easy to make false assumptions based on random time-proximity of the events even though they are completely unrelated. For instace did you know the global warming is caused by the decline in global number of pirates?! shocker, I know
or you can check one of my fav sites for almost endless fun - Spurious Correlations

Now I'm not saying you should or souldn't take any medication. Nor I'm saying it's causing or not causing any side effects byt pretty much everything causes some... All I'm saying is that whatever you decide, you should make an informed, educated decision. And a handfull of unproven anecdotal examples are not sufficient proof to make such a decision...

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But it's not just a handful, their are dozens of stories/websites about it, and it's extremely hard these days with fake news, to know what's still true and what not.

That it (could have) affected both my mom and possible dad, aside from the housekeepers other clients, that is personally enough for me.
And like we both say everyone should decide for themselves, as i said i am not advocating one way or the other, but inform yourself wisely.

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A lot of my neighbors here are elderly so I've gotten the shot and 2 boosters. So far I'm doing ok, but will likely get a 4th in 2023. I've been fortunate enough to have not caught COVID or lose anyone; but my manager lost her mother and some of my friends caught it. ):

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Why worry? Surely, 8 mice can't be wrong.

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It makes no sense to draw any conclusion from a very limited sample size. Even worse is when you lack knowledge about any other factors that might have led to the results you witnessed or heard about. And even if you had more and better data you'd still lack any expertise in judging the data.

I got my second booster with Biontech for BA.4/5 a week ago. Had slight issues on the first night, as usual. That's all. The rest of my family got their second boosters today.

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If you still are around making claims about "longterm consequences" you obviously managed to ignore every explanation why that's not a realistic concern. But you do you.

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There are already many stories from people (even doctors opening up) saying they are seeing things (who knows better?), that vaccins could cause heart issues, give strokes etc etc and my dad that suddenly died, and my mom suddenly that had a stroke, can that be a coincidence? Maybe.
A housekeeper that has 8 clients that suddenly got a stroke, a coincidence? Still maybe, but when you both put them together, for me that's personally enough information, and you don't have to be a doctor to decide what you think is good for you or not.
I am not advocating, my saying is inform yourself very well.

It's crap with fake news these days to figure out though what's true and what not anymore.

Even i went like people saying how people suddenly got heart issues, my reaction was well you had athletes too before covid that suddenly died on the field, nothing new. Now i am atleast open that there might be something new.

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If your housekeeper had eight clients with a sudden stroke I probably would start to wonder about the house rather than question vaccines ...

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It's not some elderly home, they are seperate houses spread everywhere..

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Now I'm concerned about the housekeeper!

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:-D
Evil

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Still plenty of options. Local water, food supplies, cleaning material used by the housekeeper. And that's just some options coming to my mind within 30 seconds.

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I won't be taking part in this discussion, but please excuse me a note about something you repeatedly been saying.

Strokes happen suddenly. It's like breaking a bone. There is no slow stroke. A stroke happens when a part of brain doesn't get enough blood and can't function, and it's a strictly on-or-off system in this case.

Stroke definition includes "Sudden numbness or weakness in the face, arm, or leg, especially on one side of the body. Sudden confusion, trouble speaking, or difficulty understanding speech. Sudden trouble seeing in one or both eyes. Sudden trouble walking, dizziness, loss of balance, or lack of coordination." (cdv.gov)

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I don't know what your goal is using the bolds on the sudden, on how i been using them wrong?

I know what a stroke is, and my googling to confirm it actually "saved my mom" because she is one of those that's usually too stubborn to call a doctor, but this time she believed me.
She had a sudden total numbness in her whole right body although she described it as cold rather then no feeling else i would have had pressured more, it was at 22:00 she decided to sleep it off and i said if you still got it in the morning definitely call a doctor.
Before i was even awake the doctor was already making a housecall.

But she also had eye surgery a few weeks before, and apparently that can also cause a stroke from what she told me (i am no doctor so i got no clue there).

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That talking about "sudden stroke" is misleading and gives way a lot of medical jumbo-bumbo, and some people just love to spread all kinds of fake information, and draw out nonexistent connections.

Talking about a "sudden stroke" implies it's special and for any reason, atypical, while all strokes are sudden (as I said and quoted, it's part of the definition!).

(As opposed to i.e. suddenly having 40°C body temperature, where the sudden rise is high concern compared to a low increase of temperature)

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Have had 3 shots done (2 Pfizer and 1 Moderna), the third one was a spontaneous drop-in. Don't think I'm gonna go for an optional 4th booster (next year?) as I currently have covid.

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That is not how vaccines work..

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You should read their rant above. Very insightful. /s

Sorry you've caught covid, how are the side effects compared to your body's initial reaction of getting the first shot?

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Thank you for confirming my suspicions.

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All shots except the first one gave me slight fever and exhaustion for a few days. Actually getting covid has given me a headache from all hell that makes me want to gouge my left eye out, fever around 39c, body soreness and exhaustion.

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Oh my, where can I get a tin foil hat?

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Even after you deleted your rant, you're still going strong, huh?

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I can't click on your links. I'm vaccinated with Pfizer and they installed a 5G chip in me. A nano-clone of Bill Gates sits inside of the chip and prevents me from clicking non-mainstream media links. It's so painful, I can't learn about big pharma, mainstream media, corporations, politicians and flat earth. Help.

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You're missing out on Big Foods hate. You think groceries and restaurants are there to do you good? Think they care about your health? Lol, this is as ridiculous as believing Big Pharma is your friend. Big Foods has always been profiting from your hunger while never really solving the issue of hunger, it's constant daily and hourly resurgence. Food corporations want you to eat, eat and eat. And you do that obediently, every god damn day. Have you seen foods and drinks advertising? they are everywhere. Big Pharma got nothing on Big Foods. Who's a gullible fool now, huh?

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Yes but it never claimed that it would stop covid, the claim was you get lesser symptoms.

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All vaccines work in the same way. None of them have 100% efficiency. Plus high mutations rate of the covid virus makes the goal even harder.

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You and your family have my condolences. May he rest in peace. Also I find it a little tiresome when people argue over these issues to the point of tribalism. Do as much research as you can, and talk to your personal trust doctor about all of your worries. Do not let the media, the pharmaceutical industry, or politicians influence your health-related decisions they do not have understanding of your personal health nor care about you. I hope you have a long, healthy life. ; )

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Thank you.

Yeah i was kinda hoping it would not come to it, and just atleast let people be aware (that have not decided yet) to atleast very well inform oneself on the proper channels (and like me and i think many others that did get fooled by the pharmaaceutical industries/politicians), but i am guessing forums gonna be forums (and people being people).

Appreciated, and same to you. ;)

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With so many fake news and msm that seem to be even biased (and sometimes propaganda) it's also very hard for people to really decide what's true and not.
Offcourse there will be linked deaths that have nothing to do with the vaccins, and i would even go so far (still) to say maybe not all vaccins are bad and maybe just some, but the thing is that there are just too many stories, and there is also a saying about when there is smoke..

If you want me to delete this, just say so.

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Oh it's okay, you don't need to delete. I just thought it was in poor taste of me to write a reply before thoroughly reading that you had a personal brush with this. I would rather not push my opinions in that case, because it's not important. Wish you and yours good health.

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I understand.

Thank you.

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I never took a single vaccine, I got tested positive for Covid twice. The first time stung for 4 days, the second (exactly a year after) was as simple as a one day flu.
Natural immunity will forever be far more effective than any vaccine.
Covid is over.
Recommended book for bookworms: The courage to fight covid 19, get educated.

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yeah similar here, so many stories of people around me who are vaxxed being sick with covid for week(s) mostly young healthy people, and then the unvaxxed people with barely any symptoms recovering fast including older people where you expect bad immunity,
it really makes you think when you are less sick with covid than someone who just got jabbed experiencing post-vaxx symptoms

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My husband is not vaxed, i got vax + 2 boosts because i wanted to protect him, because he was "from those at risk". But i didn't want to force him to get vax. And husband couldn't go to restaurant, etc. So i didn't go either without him. We were both lucky enough not to get covid (yet).

At start of covid i was panicked, i heard Luc Montagnier explaining that covid was created in lab from parts of AIDS + flu.
But i'm not sure i want a 3rd boost, i remember he said the more time passes, the more the covid turns into a normal flu.
(So... i'm a complotist vaxed ? Montagnier said exactly in french : "la nature est bien faite, avec le temps mutation après mutation, le virus va se débarrasser de tout ce qui a été ajouté artificiellement, tout ce qui n'est pas naturel". And i hope he was right because it gives hope.)

Some people said unvaxed would die from covid, or vaxed would die from vax.
I think that a % of unlucky people died from covid, and a % of unlucky people died from vax.
Whatever he died from, i feel sorry for your dad. I don't want 2 sides, i 'm just sorry for you.

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Yeah the risk of ending up on an IC or get long covid (which you might always be stuck with) not even to mention we were told that you would stop spreading it to others, versus the (potential) risks you could get with a vaccin, it's what i said a choice between bad and bad.
And maybe what you said the chances could be low or be unlucky, but you should just be that one (or your family), not like we talking about losing a limb, but your life, a bit more then just unlucky, it's really crap putting it mildly..

Not sure who that Luc is, but our Minister of Health (A doctor) urges people that another wave is coming and we are almost at stage 2, and people should get a booster again, but many on his twitter account are saying unfriendly things like what he could do with his vaccin..

Even if you are pro booster they are only "useful" for a few months, some people had to wait too many months in between for there booster and were unprotected in the meantime.

Thank you, hope you and your husband stay safe (and we don't get a (massive) wave again.

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I agree it was like russian roulette, a choice between shit and shit. That's why i don't blame one part or other, we little people just do the best we can with the few we understand.
My older brother got covid multiple times, he is vaxed but suffers another (really) serious illness, so with a damaged immune system, he probably got it while at hospital. I think he is unlucky, just so you see it's not just words i randomly throw at you.
But before covid, i had a very good friend who fell in stairs and broke her leg, and at hospital she got staphylococcus and died one year later. And i think she was unlucky too, because omg it's just a leg and then you get something much worst at hospital. :-(

Here government is starting again to urge us to wear mask. I still always clean hands and wore mask without problem during covid, but i start to become reluctant because i hate pass and how it divides population in 2 parts, and don't like that government gets used to being authoritarian.

You guess right, i tend to be pro-vax anti-pass. (That means everybody should be free to choose for himself.) So i won't contradict people who say that booster is just useful for a few months, and you know what ? If vax didn't stop to transmit virus to others, then i got vaxed for nothing. But i just did the best i could with the few i heard. I know some anti-vax wish people like me to die from vax, and i'm not even angry against them, wish them long healthy life.

Luc Montagnier was the codiscoverer of AIDS. At the end of his life many said he had become a conspiracist.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luc_Montagnier
He died recently, but before he gave an interview on a radio, and it's when i listened that he explained, that him and another cosearcher had found parts of AIDS in covid, and so it was engineered from a lab. Interviewer asked him "but why ?" and he answered that he didn't know but maybe some people would have tried to create a cure for AIDS and there would have been maybe an accident.

I wish you that the misfortune will stop on you, i just went through a period of this kind over several years, losing home and best friend and it seems that it is endless when you are in it. Please keep your head above water !

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Sorry to hear about your friend that fell from the stairs, people can die in the weirdest ways, i mean i got hit by a riding moped (at a fair speed) with just some scrapes, and speaking of keep your head above water, i fell into the middle of winter (drunk) in a freezing pond and i kept telling myself no matter what keep your head up, get out and somehow still managed to walk all the way home (or someone gave me a ride near the end, i can't even remember) but the point is no matter my life i always had a "guardian angel" on my shoulders.
Doesn't explain why others wouldn't have one though, but you can also say that about young kids that die, why them? Unfortunately we can never really get the answer to that. I like to believe there is a "time" for everyone to go, how unfortunate early that might be for some.

I tried many psychics, i had a lot of charlatans they can be, but i got 1 female friend that has psychic abilities herself but due her illness she doesn't do much with it but she told me about 1 medium she would trust.
I gave her a call and unlike a Char (if you know her) she doesn't go guessing names or things, no this mediums first question was without me even saying anything was, did your granddad die?
No, but she meant my dad because my niece also lived at home so everyone in the house basically called my dad, granddad.
We had our fights, and she said he regretted things (and so did i), but it gave peace to know when you go, or someone around you that they are up there, looking after you, i firmly like to believe that, hope you do too for your friend (and family).

Did your brother get any long term effects from his covid?

Thanks for the explanation about the Luc person, well when it started they already thought it was an outbreak from a lab in China.
First time i hear it connected to AIDS, i got other theories as to why covid happened, but then we are headed into conspiracy theories. ;)

Thank you, really appreciate it, without complaining, i can say i been misfortunate almost my whole life (been bullied at school, dropped out at 15 with all the results,so it does kinda feel endless indeed).
Although i read a similar story from a girl that got ptsd and need a guidance dog, and guidanced living, being bullied can really damage a person severly.
But i got my first luck now with my upcoming new apartment (although it might also be very lonely), i really hope this is the beginning and that a relationship (and especially kids of my own) are in the stars too, just having someone to say i love you, and said back can do wonders (i imagine). :)

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Your story is beautiful, you're strong to have had the strength to get out of that pond, woo !
Yeah i agree we all have a different fate, luck is full random, and sometimes it's full shit !!
I don't believe in the supernatural (or rather i try not to because it's frightening) but i'm glad you found comfort, and sincerely it's another beautiful story.

The friend i told yoy she fell from stairs was an old lady, and i like to tell her story too. She lived WW2 then was married by her parents and had several children. She raised her family and helped with the very physical work. During free time she did free sewing for the whole village. And she was cleaning church but was an atheist because she wondered why God would allow such shit everywhere. Once she was driving her car and passed a young girl walking alone along the road. She told her to get into her car, the girl wanted to escape an arranged marriage, so she helped her change her identity and escape her family.
And then, as you know she fell from stairs. She went to an hospital and got a staphylococcus. She could no more take care of her husband (+60 years marriage). Her husband threw her out on the street. She misteriously became blind for 1 year and one of her daughter helped her to install in a retirement home. One year later, she misteriously recovered sight, recovered faith and died. I think she was a very good person. And would think the same if she didn't recover faith in fact.

My older brother had a super harsh life (abandoned at birth, fired from job, etc.) and maybe you would have understood each other. He has serious intestinal, digestive tract and stomach problems, and after covid serious lungs problems too. Can't know yet if there would be long term effects but it's sure that covid doesn't help when you are already very sick.

I can sympathize to your story, i was bullied too at school for some long years, maybe because i'm disabled and foreigner. And you know how kids sometimes, well they target those who look different, those who are fat, who wear glasses, who seem shy or isolated, etc. And sometimes adults just don't even try to help, and sometimes they even incite.

Congratz for this new start and apartment ! About what you hope for future, i just can wish you that your dreams come true !
In any case i am always happy to meet you on this forum, and if one day you don't come anymore i hope it's because you will have found something or someone that fulfills you in life.

(edit : i stop here to not bother more)

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Thank you, guess having had a lot of things that didn't kill me made me strong (j/k). :p

Even with such a beautiful story, a great loveable sounding woman that lost her eyesight and got it back before she passed away, and you still don't believe in the supernatural? :p Seriously it's almost a story for a book/movie. Why does it frighten you?

Yeah my digestive tract/stomach isn't also so great (also bad cholestrol), had to wait 12 months on a liver doctor (referral was send to a deceased doctor) so had to wait another 12 months, then called my new doctor, then suddenly i could be rushed for an appointment 2 weeks later.. But now it's moved again until december. How old is your brother, does he live on his own?

People pick on those that are different (even adults still do) but with kids i don't think they often even realize it when grownups don't tell them, and they will regret it later. Big problem is even often teachers don't even do anything about it (or don't know how).
I was too skinny and shy, one time i had the whole class waiting to gang up on me, yet i had playdates with almost the whole class.
What's your disability if i may ask?

Thank you, and they have to drag me off this forum, :p No i definitely would atleast give a proper goodbye, but hope this place gets a bit more active again, and it just stays on for a long time.

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Yes, I'm happy to see a kindred spirit in the post above that abhors to see two extreme sides.
I wonder if a poll would have existed in the thread below, how the numbers would have looked liked. Today it seems more balanced and certainly kinder between "team science believers" and "anti vaxxers".

https://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/w3KTk/fuck-covid

If anything, hope everyone is doing fine, that those participating in the experiment will not get side effected and those risking no added protection don't suddenly drop dead due to covid. Sorry to hear about your dad Lugum.

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Thank you.

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If anything, hope everyone is doing fine, that those participating in the experiment will not get side effected and those risking no added protection don't suddenly drop dead due to covid.

That is putting it in the most beautiful way I've ever read, so very lovingly expressed care for both sides of the spectrum ♥

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So basically you are saying:

  1. "They" (whoever "they" are) are causing death and misery.
  2. "They" do it for money.
  3. "They" include CDC and FDA members.
  4. "They" include politicians.
  5. "They" include mainstream media people.
  6. "They" include the whole of the pharma industry.
  7. "They" include big corps.
  8. "They" also spread propaganda and misinformation.
  9. "They" cause it all inadvertently.

You do realize you are talking about a HUGE amount of people here. The CDC alone employs over 10,000. (But I guess 99% of "them" are just zombies in your view, so it can somehow seem plausible.)
Thank the sky you are nothing like "them".

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I did read your wall of text, I even read it out loud to my significant other. I do appreciate the way you clarified your points. I don't really have the time to comment on it much, mostly it was not as crazy as I initially expected. You did now define "them" mostly as "the people in power" as well as billionaires and other elites. Not sure if it's again condescending if I point out that the systems (if you will) that make it easier for the wealthy to always get wealthier have been in existence for ages, and yes of course it's a problem, made even worse by today's more-efficient-than-ever version of capitalism. I do share a dislike towards corporatism, even though it too has its benefits. I do also want to point out that it's not just the elites that can invest in and benefit from stocks, etc. A big percentage of regular people do it too, either directly or through pension plans and whatnot. At least there used to be a trend where more and more people were getting the benefits of progress, even if they weren't getting richer. Do check out what Johan Norberg has to say about it. Don't know if we have or are reaching the peak of that.

I have made another comment where I explain why I don't say much about the news, media, etc. I feel your comments about them are perhaps US-centric, not saying there aren't biases and some let's say omissions in Finnish media and news orgs for example, but in general they can be considered trustworthy. Finns have learned to question and fight propaganda because it is a key weapon of our eastern neighbor.

About point 9 though, that seems to be where the more controversial stuff is in, I'd certainly hope we some day will know the full truth about the origin (to be honest I haven't looked into this particular issue much at all), but in practice it doesn't really matter, the virus is out in a big way and we don't know how it will behave in the future. This situation did change how I view other illnesses as well, I don't think flu should be an accepted "normal" anymore, etc.

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So the comments were deleted, but I still wanted to add how my significant other reacted to the points presented. Basically, "so what?" You and anyone can point at problems, and doesn't matter how fundamental they are, it won't change anything. Life will go on as it does. You also need to provide a realistic alternative, and the steps that need to be taken to get there. Indeed most people have enough of own problems (often small but plentiful, and much more local to them) to really consider taking action on much bigger ones. However that doesn't mean change can't or doesn't happen, it actually can and does, but you do need to sell the idea (see the bolded part again).

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My thought you're making hasty conclusions out of unproven premises. You can die with a very high chances because of a car crash though I don't think you've stopped to use them.

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You are comparing apples and oranges.

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Nope, this isn't bad. Driving a car is very dangerous in comparison to getting a vaccine / these new vaccines or boosters

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While that is true, vaccines and cars are so fundamentally different things, that the argument of "you didn't stop using cars, why would you not get vaxxed if it has lower mortality rate" just doesn't work here.
Vaccine has no visible effect on your daily life, you don't comprehend it, you live your entire childhood without ever thinking "i'm alive because i had tetanus shot".
Car is something most people require daily and many people are unable to live without commuting to work.
I'm not good with words but i hope this is enough to illustrate the false equivalency.

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Wouldn't like to discuss this too long, but yeah, maybe for comparision you are right. It doesnt fit perfectly.

Though i would like to add:

"i'm alive because i had tetanus shot".

^- i had this thought and i think, most intelligent people can understand this.

And actually you are. Not getting basic vaxx / having anti-vaxx parents is incredibly dangerous.

There is a joke, we tell in Germany and maybe also other countries:

Anti-Vaxx kids (they are just victims) have their mid-life crisis with 5, because they (could) die with 10.

It could happen or not, but its really dangerous.

Offtopic, i would like my kids vaxxed against covid, because i don't think its healthy to get covid a quadruple time in school-like settings and vaxx is the better option with less risks.

But covid vaccine is not that important as basic vaxx,'

Vaccines are one of the most important milestones ever and i think it saved a hell of people and maybe without vaccines we could have gone extinct.

3 months ago
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You can use different means instead of cars (like walking or cycling). Though when the travel distance is long you'll most probably chose car, train or even plane because you aren't ready to spent several days on the trip. We choose things out of our needs and/or comfort. And the vaccines are the same necessity as cars. You use them when you need them because they're literally saving lives even when there's a chance of side effects. You're choosing a lesser evil here.

3 months ago
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Agreed, you can also say if you take alcohol or substances you actually increase your chances on a crash (compared to taking something in your body and also not ever really truely know what it could bring). ;)

3 months ago
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Newest info on this drama just dropped.

Pfizer CEO admits that the vaccines were never tested to stop transmission.

So literally the only thing they do, is maybe lessen symptoms, while definitely putting you at risk for heart disease amongst other possibilities.

Other countries have made it illegal to give to kids under 11, while places in the US are just about mandating it for kids...

Painfully interesting times. My dad also died last November,l. Within a couple weeks of getting his booster. Thus not technically "vaccinated" and so another death that can be blamed on covid...

3 months ago
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You are totally ignoring the health impact of covid. Immunity and lessen symptoms has a lot advantages and impact on health. And yeah, not every vaccination is sterile / stopping transmission.

And i don't think that other countries made it illegal, but they haven't given a recommendation. That's a big difference.

Sorry for your loss, but i don't see a clear link there and even with vaxx and some kind of community, in a pandemic / with a nasty disease there will die more people.

vaxxed dad > covid > has still a lot of health impact.

3 months ago
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It's just as illogical to assume it's caused by covid, as it is by the vaccine. But one of these two is socially acceptable to lay blame on, while the other one is not.

My main reason for learning heavily on blaming the vaccine, is how the narrative has been controlled and stifled.

New current info from Pfizer CEO making the statement that the vaccine was never tested to stop transmission is a crazy big bombombshell, as it was literally the reason for mandates and people losing their jobs.

Really sad to see those in the church of the covidien, to have little to no anger about the fact they were lied to and manipulates into becoming willing test subjects for a new tech. Now it's all about making excuses for the lies we were told to get the V.

Another HUGE red flag for this whole debate, is the fact they tried to hurt the information about the vaccine for 70 years!!!

Sure I could be completely wrong about my belief that my dad's death was heavily influenced by his booster. But there are just way too many red flags about this issue, and I'm grateful I waited for real world results, rather than the juiced and fluffed data from Pfizer's joke of a study.

Overall I'm mainly sad to have completely lost trust and faith in the CDC, who I used to trust more than the government.

3 months ago
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If it's the EU committee meeting you're referring to, the CEO (Albert Bourla) skipped out and it was his delegate (Janine Small), responsible for International Developed Markets, who said that.

3 months ago
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Thx for specifying the source of that info. Ran across the headline stating the basic info, but have yet to look into it further.

3 months ago
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Really sad to see those in the church of the covidien, to have little to no anger about the fact they were lied to and manipulates into becoming willing test subjects for a new tech.

The term you are looking for is cognitive dissonance.

3 months ago
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I don't agree at all.

These vaccines had a lot of clinical data, because of enough test subjects and like real-life testing, because the emergence of covid is ofc. spreading like shit.

Vaccines can have serious side effects, every vaccine, but this is incredibly rare and if this emerges, this happens with a swift onset and has then long-lasting impact, not the other way around.

99% of my inner circle is vaxxed and most are boostered, apart from short-term normal side effects stuff, i didn't hear anything real bad.

From covid this is different - but this is again anecdotal, like yours.

Apart from these claims you need evidence and real word data to support it.

And it's more likely that subsequent covid infections have a high toll on health, deaths and stuff. This is mostly ignored, for the sake of normality, economy and people have enough of isolating and want to live. (i understand totally)

Vaxxing has also stats for these events, i mean, they happen even without vaxxing. But getting not vaxxed/boosted and taking subsequent covid infections is not really healthy and you are in lottery likely.

I don't understand, how a small vaxx, gone in like ~48 hours with really short side effects and impact is thought as the culprit but a multi-organ blood vessel affecting not light disease where everyone is getting infected multiple times with different variants, waning immunity and antibody evading variants is not considered.

I'm not that community active, but you are a name for me and i think you are smarter than that.

You should start here and read real science:

https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/

IMPORTANT and good guidance, see this image, it's now a bit "older", but good.

https://imgur.com/3yxnjKv

Sources for the graphic:

https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/pjmeqh/oc_side_effect_risks_from_getting_an_mrna_vaccine/

Underlying source:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34432976/ (used the raw data from the supplemental materials). They also provided error bars but I did my own 500 rounds of bootstrapping anyway.

And useful to know:

"Please note this is a log scale, so the first line is twice as risky as baseline 1 and the top line is 32 times more risky"
"It's a base 2 logarithm. So acute kidney injury is like 0.5, and lymphocytopenia like 0.25"

Edit:

i'm very pissed how people are bullshitting here without any sources or good (peer-reviewed) evidence, eww.

Wanted to make my reply, but i won't read this thread and bullshit. (not meaning OP - this is just jumping to conclusions because anecdotal experiences and he said, i'm not anti-vaxx or anything else)

3 months ago*
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I am seeing as many "anti" vax sides as "pro" vax sides, and everyone is welcome to share their opinion (in a respectful way), or come with their sources.
I am not anti vaxx, else i wouldn't have taken 2, like many that truely are that just take none at all.
And it's because of my whole germphobia thing i didn't take a third months ago, not those stories (yet) but would now indeed prevent me from another one.

But who is to say who is right or who is wrong, even the most medical studies have sometimes been proven wrong, not saying your links are, have you really dug in deep and investigated the other side as well or just the pro side?
I am sure there are sites that you could deem as "good (peer-reviewed) too, i would take that bet with you on it.
But as i repeatedly said (and remains true and a big issue) there is so much fake news it's hard (for some) to really know what to believe anymore, not to mention both either a pro or anti research can be such made that it would fit their view.

3 months ago
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You don't see this discussion or claims in any credible science universum.

If one is really curious about this, don't read news or claims/discussion from people who don't know shit about it.

Read science subs, read the studies itself, read about competing interests, look if there studies after the regulation and get to know about peer-reviewing and when science/studies are good, durable and valuable.

If you don't value science and these concepts and "everything" could be false/forged, whats the point about this discussion - then there would be no truth - i mean, there is no absolute truth, but this is getting philosophical - but science done right, is the information/truth/answering questions and resolving doubts for (research) questions is "truth" as close as it gets.

And yes, i've followed this alot and im yet to see any credible science about:

vaxx -> health impact bad

vs.

vaxx -> almost no impact

like i said, did you consider pandemic/covid and many reinfections as a source for your concern? Thats a huge deal. This adds to the versus above, since when vaxxed/boosted you minimize your infections risks alot, even if they don't stop transmission.

Even vaxxed and with immunity subsequent infections have a good deal of impact.

UK lifted all restrictions, okay cool, but according to government information: +1M people with post-covid <- thats massive.

3 months ago*
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I didn't had a need to keep track of all pro or anti news, as i said until today i blown away most anti vax stories myself.
But i also seen stories from doctors and even medical stuff going around that vaccination do have side effects and i am not talking about getting a cold but serious stuff like heart problems and even death. Who is to say what's credible and not? You really can get a long debate on it, many don't even trust main stream media anymore.

Even the Pfizer CEO himself claims Pfizer was never tested to stop the spreading of covid.

If a wave comes it will come no matter how many people got vaccinated or not, we seen that the last 2 years, when the vaccination rate was still high, now here in this country many won't even are going to take a third one, i don't know anyone in my whole surrounding that is going to do it unless they have to job wise.
Note that even if you are a "believer" they are only good for x months and therefor you have to get a new booster even about every 4-6 months for however long covid stays, and some had to wait so long here in between to get a shot they were unprotected in those months, people that are chronically ill and don't even want to go outside without one.

3 months ago*
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Correction that the Pfizer CEO said it. He skipped out on the EU committee meeting and it was his delegate, responsible for International Developed Markets, Janine Small, who said it. But the overall point is correct. It was never tested to stopping of transmission, yet that's what they either said or allowed to be said from the start and for years.

Much of the science has been masked. A lot of the people being accused of being "anti-vaxx" are just asking logical questions, whereas the "pro-vax" crowd are blindly following a debunked narrative with huge gaps of information missing ...

Get vaccinated so you don't contract COVID. Pffft. Get vaccinated so you don't transmit it to your loved ones. Pffft. Anyone who contracst COVID is at high risk of dying, not just the old and obese. Pffft. All the clinical data says it's completely safe. Pffft. There are no side effects other than soreness, usually at the injection site. Pffft.

3 months ago
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