I hope it works as prefectly as the CoD:MW2 boycott worked
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wait... are you telling me... that I... can't simply... buy a ps4... with my OWN money... without... signing... this... petition.
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Wat?
They are trying to make a digital console, basically a console working like steam.
Thing is, we all know (or should know) that console digital distribution is a VERY BAD thing. It's not like steam is going to shut down in the next decade or two and lock your games library with no access point, see what i did there?
Again, i do think this approach they made is awfull, consoles should be on their own terms and should separate from ideals used on pc gaming, they are just digging their own graves. This digital distribution business in console gaming is just awfull and will bring alot of negative points to the costumers, most people are likely to not understand that.
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If Steam shuts down tomorrow it would be because WWIII broke out. Gaming wouldn't be my priority.
Also I can buy games with triple-handed prices on sales and access my Steam account from any PC around the world. (not that I need to, but hey...) ^^
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All consoles are moving towards digital distribution though, whether it's this generation or the next, it will happen on PS4 as well.
"console digital distribution is a VERY BAD thing" Which is bs, having the option of being able to get a digital version of a game is rather a very good thing. No discs getting lost or getting damaged. No need to have games shipped or bought from stores. A.k.a the same convenience as Steam, with potentially similar sales. What you are worrying about is the consumer rights of owning the games you buy digitally, which is a whole other matter. Since this is a relatively new area of legislation we just don't know what the position is of the gamers in this. Digital distribution isn't bad, just the way Microsoft are going about it is and the vague laws overall.
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You don't seem to understand the difference here. Steam is a service, that let's costumers buy games digitally. As long as steam lives, you can get access to your steam account and play games. Now, if your hardware starts to get outdated and you need to upgrade it to get a better gaming experience. You will buy new computer parts and change things the way you want to and make it better. Plus i think there's no real competitor for steam with computer gaming, origin is still behind by a long shot, it will take them alot of effort to catch up with steam.
Now look at xbox one, it's something that won't work the same way steam does. Because you know, consoles have a limited time for support, just like the 360, it's support is going to end soon enough after xbox one is launched to the market. Once they stop giving support to a product, it's deadline for the costumers unless they change things in the end and let costumers keep the games they have installed for offline use (random speculation here). But imagine, if you owned a console such as xbox one, and found out that 10 years or so later, the support given to the console is now dead and you got no way of accessing your games, what would you do?
Imagine if every freaking console to existance followed this path, would you still be able to play old systems that aren't supported anymore? I don't think so. This is more of a reason for them to push costumers into buying next generation products, thus wasting more money so we get to play again. Not to mention that said products don't support games from previous generations, which is also a complete BS in this matter.
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"360, it's support is going to end soon enough after xbox one is launched to the market."
Actually, because the majority of their playerbase is still on there that won't be the case. In case of the original Xbox they wanted to force everyone over to the 360 as soon as possible, but now they will even get plenty of games after Xbone is out.
"But imagine, if you owned a console such as xbox one, and found out that 10 years or so later, the support given to the console is now dead and you got no way of accessing your games, what would you do?"
We don't know that now do we? Same story with Steam. Like I said what you see now is a very grey area of digital product ownership that just hasn't been established yet. I'm not saying it's a good thing, but the fact is that Microsoft have decided to move in that direction. You can either go along with it, or decide to play on a different platform, it's pretty simple really. It's a billion dollar corporation that has been set on this course for years, some internet ranting is not going to change any of this, just saying.
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Steam doesn't have a listed shelf life as with the consoles though. That is the point they are trying to make. In ten years time or so, the next xbox will be coming out and xbone service will shut down within one or two years as they force people to migrate over to the next one.
I will admit that the same thing could happen to Steam, but it is not a guarantee like it is with the xbone.
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That's an awfully narrow-minded and quite frankly just plain stupid way of thinking. XBOX Live didn't stop existing when the XBOX was replaced by the XBOX 360, it won't stop existing when the XBOX 360 will be replaced with the XBONE, and it won't stop existing when the XBONE is inevitable replaced by whatever they come up with next either.
Now don't get me wrong, I think the XBONE is a piece of shit. But you can't support the way Steam handles its distribution and at the same time boycott XBOX for doing the exact same thing. There are plenty of legitimate reasons not to buy an XBONE, but your reasoning entirely mad eof double standards and fanboyism. If you had any intelligence and actually meant what you said, you'd boycott Steam as well.
Besides, internet boycotts are the most pathetic thing.
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Fanboyism? Haha, que?
I play everything equally, so i'm a fanboy of a single company, how does that work again?
And you are the stupid person here, what makes you think that xbox live will live throughout all generations? What makes you think that support for xbox one will be permanent? And for last, what makes you think that xbox one will be playable like the old gaming consoles we have today? My answer to you is, you don't because it's more than likely that once xbox one is disconnected from the world, everything that is in it, goes into the trash bin, and the main feature of that system is gaming, said feature can't be used without making an online check every 24 hours.
Another thing that makes no sense is to have them implement a blu-ray in the console and they are trying to go digital, we are paying for useless hardware afterall. Steam has alot of blu-ray quality games and i don't have a blu-ray on my computer to play them.
Now i would agree with you on the boycotts, this is actually the first time i sign up one.
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This is more likely answer to question "Will you buy xbone?" xD
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At first I saw only your avatar. I was like "Wait, when did I post this?"
Fallout rulz :D
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Yeah gift it once, amazing thing, WOW!
And it's not entirely like steam, console's can't be upgraded the sameway gaming rigs can. Once Xbox one is out of date and runs out of support, it's more than likely they will kill it completly. Then you want to access all of those pixels you bought for it and you can't because they completly did an overkill on the system, hence the reason why they should make backwards compatible system if they want to adjust their cause, in a better way. Otherwise it's all idiotic money grabbing thoughts (let's force them to buy the next gen consoles and drop the past, YEAH!).
Imagine a world without access to all those old pixels you played in your youth and you wanted to replay them again (in a legit way), how would you play them without having any sort of support on your machine?
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Speculation, are you kidding me?
What happens when a game's multiplayer support shuts down? It kills the multiplayer.
What makes you think they won't just pull the same kind of dirty trick with the system itself next?
I mean, given their historical business, and being an american company. They will always aim towards methods to get more money and sell more. This is the reason why i hate them now, they are trying to change console gaming for the worst without thinking properly of the consequences. They know someone had to pull the strings eventually, but they just jumped in without taking much into consideration, completly ruining the strong chances they had of conquering this generation.
If you xbox one was the same as xbox 360, i think it would happen otherwise, could have been sony pulling the strings and what pisses me even more is that microsoft did it while having the best exclusives in the market. Basically telling everyone "If you want 2 game better, buy us and support our evil crusade!".
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Well, for xbox I can think of quantum break, from Remedy, it can't be bad, must be really awesome.
But for PS4, Deep Down (could be), Driveclub it's probably like Forza, even Gran turismo is coming, the order 1986 looks awesome, and other timed exclusives... but in the end maybe it's just that I don't like xbox exclusives that much.
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Yeah, I have to say I disagree with you then. The only one that kind of interests me is the order one.
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its the Order 1866,
Mad Max,
Killzone Shadow Fall,
inFamous Second Son,
Knack,
Beyond,
then of course your going to be seeing the next game from Naughty Dogs.
plus the free games you recieve on Plus, like Driveclub which will be free from the start. never really liked the Xbox exclusives rather just play the PC
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I have the same opinion, if they AT LEAST removed the forced online check from the system, i would gladly give it a try. But they clearly mixed up too much crap into one freaking box, yes it's going to be the ONE to fail in gaming industry, it could cause an impact in a way or another but they took too many risks to make this go through and they shouldn't have.
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They will always aim towards methods to get more money and sell more.
Exactly. Which is why there's a good chance they will probably let you keep your games with the next console (if there is one).
Xbox One breaks compatibility with the 360, but hopefully moving to an x86 architecture means that a future Xbox will be able to retain compatibility. Then you'd just be able to play the games on your account. That's the Steam model, the Android model, the iOS model. That's probably where Microsoft is aiming.
I think that's why console makers moved to x86, it allows them to provide an upgrade cycle that's closer to the PC, and this can make console relevant for longer.
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Quite hypocritical on your part, isn't it? Your claims it is exactly like Steam is all based on some ridiculously sheepish speculation on your part as well, which I imagine is formed because someone on the internet claimed Microsoft was trying to be like Steam when it will be nothing like Steam. Steam's DRM is fucking horrible, but we all accept it since game sales are cheap on it and PC's as a platform will never die in the near future (or likely ever). Xbox One will die in 6 years and Microsoft will likely force us to repurchase various titles or not have backwards compatibility at all. Even Steam gives some titles in both PC and MAC form, will the Xbox One guarantee the same when their next console comes out and Xbox One's online services are shutdown, making the games no longer operational? Can we count on Microsoft to at least patch the Xbox One to no longer force internet connection when they plan to shut down services or will they likely no longer care enough about us to make time for such coding since there is no economical benefit from doing so, sorta like how they keep shutting down their own games even in a short period of time.
Beyond all that, lets just pretend console gaming is even comparable to PC gaming and that is why it is a reasonable excuse as to why it is okay to make console gaming's DRM as horrible as PC gaming when console games do not sell as cheap as often like PC does... Why SHOULD anyone tolerate such crap if we do not like it and there is other platforms? There is nothing special about the Xbox's exclusive that you are unable to find an alternative for on the Playstation 4. You could more than happily, if you tried, survive with a PS4 without all the ridiculously greed motivated DRM on the Xbox One. FYI, not everyone tolerated the DRM bullshit from EA's games such as Sim City, which did help ruin their potential profit on it and I assure you will make them not make the same mistake. This entire topic is just a huge mess on Microsoft's part and I find it ridiculous that you think you can justify it as "just like Steam" when it clearly is nothing like Steam when Steam at least allows you to install your games on any computer without any obstacles.
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Yeah, and you need to be lucky to get Steam offline mode working
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Are you joking or are you being serious with this?
You only need to get online once and then switch to offline mode by using the steam drop down box in the library/market window. It should be labeled as "Go offline...".
If you are trying to go offline from the login menu, yeah it's most likely that it won't work as i think steam forces you to login to internet once at least, then you are free to go offline afterwards.
You are welcome.
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Oh
my
god
I can't believe you just refered the achievements as an ACTUAL problem for this situation. Go hide yourself please, who the heck says such a thing, what the hell man? What matters the most is the games, not the freaking achievements, if you said something like "say bye bye to game installers", that would have been more plausible and less stupid.
And yes GFWL, you know where that came from, right? Does the name ring a bell? It has nothing to do with steam itself, it's a third party software. ;D
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I like achivments, I loved them on xbox360, on steam are much worse but still they are part of the system that doesn't work.
Yes this is third party DRM, but there is many games with third party DRM on steam, like Uplay, like Origin, but this games are still on steam so you can't say "It has nothing to do with steam itself". This is why i thnik Valve have problems with Steam Box.
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Doesn't work for some games, doesn't work when you didn't launch the game for some time, doesn't have achievements/time tracking, needs to be prepared before going offline. Hell yeah, that sounds like a good alternative
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Not working for some games doesn't mean it won't work for every single one of them in your library, plus that's the gaming companies decision, not steam.
I'm pretty sure if that was a problem, gaming companies would just make a notice saying "X game requires an online connection in order to play", a few games like that is better than restricting all of them under the same situation right?
Achievements or time tracking offline is no big deal, hell who gives a crap about those while offline, you want to show yourself your own epeen or something? Makes sense...
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That's what i thought. People only see the disadvantages of Microsofts integrated DRM without noticing the advantages of it, while they don't see that PS4 can have the same DRM but without any advantages...
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Oh right, advantages of such system... for a selected few it might be, but there are alot of people who see this as an awfull approach. Also what's the point of including a blu-ray when they are trying to go digital, what kind of sense does that make? I play games that are meant for blu-rays on pc without having a blu-ray, yes because it's digital, see my point?
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Where's the disadvantage of that approach? You can play your games without having the disc with you. But if you wanna go play at a friends house, you can install from disk to skip a huge download that would be needed otherwise. This approach really isn't new, i.e. Skyrim is a Steamworks title but you can also purchase a physical copy
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I'll name you just one to disprove your point: Playing the same bought game at different consoles at the same time
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Not seeing why would they change it at all, so...yeah.
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Please don't confuse speculations with facts. It could also happen that every publisher creates its own DRM for the PS4, or that Sony implements DRM
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Fact: Sony already said they are not implementing DRM.
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Yes, but the publishers can still implement their own. Aside from that, i wouldn't trust Sony any more. They already proved that they don't care about their promises
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"publishers can still implemente their own". Just exactly like this gen. Not really worried about that.
And nope, Sony simply cannot backtrack from this. At all. The backlash would be too great, especially after they making this a major point and their E3. They cannot add it in a firmware update either, unless they want to be sued.
So nope, not happening.
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Ist only speculation of course, but they already did this with the second OS feature, and the hate was big
Still, the possibilities to restrict the user are almost the same for XBO and PS4, while XBO also offers a few advantages. At this moment, we simply cannot know how many publishers will use these possibilities and to which extend
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second OS was barely used though. Putting drm in would affect everyone. Pretty sure that it will never happen. Also, I dont think many developers will waste money on developing DRM only for use it PS4, imo. That, and they would probably get a huge backlash that would not be worth it.
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PS4 can have DRM, the same way PS3 could have DRM. Was that a problem? No.
MS will have that DRM build into the console itself.
You can give a game to your friend on XBONE... once! IF publisher allows you to!
You can give a game to your friend on PS4... with no limitations! You can give the game to friend, he can give it to another friend, that can lend it to his friend and so on.
You can share your library with up to 10 people on XBONE!
You can share your library with up to infinite people with PS4! Just lend them the disc -_-
You can resell games on XBONE... If publisher allows you to! Only via retailers like gamestop that will give you next to nothing.
You can resell games on PS4... As you please! On ebay, to retail, exchange it for pot for all they care.
All those features you talk about are needed only because of restrictions they created.
Even as PC guy all they way I can see how MS are just flat out f*cking up everything they touch with XBONE.
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But no one honestly believes they will match benefits of steam in any shape or form.
Can you imagine MS doing massive sales to point of 75% or even almost 90% in some extreme cases?
Does XBONE have offline mod? Steam offline mod may not be perfect (in fact I had problems with it personaly), but the fact remains that it is at least existing option.
Steam is service that can carry on to the next generation, the one after that, and so forth until something drastic happens, like people stop using it, Valve stop supporting it or something better will come along. All those options are highly unlikely to actually occur.
XBONE will be forgotten after next generation of consoles comes out, and servers shut down shortly after if we are to judge by their prior actions. It is speculation, but I feel that it is one to very likely come true.
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You know you can not buy the frigging thing right?
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What if i wanted to buy before they announced the crap specs the console ended up having, and by specs i mean the restrictions that come with it.
If i'm paying 500€ for a f*cking box that plays games, i want it to play games offline without being interrupted with some annoying half-@ssed daily online check system they put in.
Americans got the upper hand on this crap, they always did. They pay less for everything in console gaming. They got technological improvements better than most other countries in the world. Their internet providers are likely to be much better than ours aswell. Given that most of the population lives in cities in there, unlike some countries in the world, such as portugal. Cities are highly populated but aren't the main focus of everyone's lives. People who live outside the city tend up to living with crappier services that aren't good to satisfy all the needs a person is looking forward to.
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"What if i wanted to buy before they announced the crap specs the console ended up having, and by specs i mean the restrictions that come with it."
If you're irrational enough to blindly buy a console before knowing the restrictions, then that's your own problem, no?
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I have good news for you right there. Internet in US sucks hard. They have such atrocities as Time Warner Cable. Around 50% of them still don't have broadband connection, if any at all.
But you are right. In the general due to restrictions XBONE will have outside of US, there is no point in wasting any amount of money on it. Less features, more expensive games, later release dates for games. In general they absolutely don't care about anyone outside of US.
PS4 will be region free. If you want good console, go with that. It is also cheaper.
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"And if you get banned from Xbox Live (rightly or wrongly), you get banned from your console - you won't be able to play any of your games, online or offline." Major Nelson confirmed that you can still play your games in case of a ban, you just can't play multiplayer.
"Your console needs to check in with Microsoft's servers at least every 24 hours" Anybody else think that this is to counter piracy? It's bad but at least they're trying hard to stop piracy.
I'm getting really sick of all this shit, If you don't like what Microsoft's doing to their console, just don't buy the xbox one.
EDIT: I'm surprised that I've never seen anyone think of just covering up the kinect sensor if you don't like the always watching thing.
EDIT 2: OP. you forgot the clicky. ;)
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Two things I need to add to that.
Who cares about countering piracy if it affects paying customers or prevents them from using the product altogether? No one! No form of DRM should affect people that pay for it. If it is any good DRM that is.
Yes, you can cover kinect up. But that does not change the fact that it is there. Needed to be connected to console at all times and jacking up the price for the whole system.
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There's something you need to know. DRM isn't there to counter piracy. It's to implement controls on the paying consumer. The defects people keep complaining about?
It's not a bug. It's a feature.
Actiblizzard used always-online for Diablo 3 to expose as many people as possible to the real money auction house, which they profit from. EA introduced mandatory Origin on several of their titles to convert as many people as possible to their store, of which they can receive greater profits than elsewhere. The activation limits of old likely had to do with preventing second-hand trading. Stuff like Securom are not their to deter pirates but to prevent buying customers from doing amateur bootlegging. Remember, the average person barely knows that piracy exists let alone how to do it.
DRM isn't about limiting 'lost sales'. It's about locking down the sales they do get.
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No because i know steam box isn't going to fail miserably, you are comparing two different companies with different historical events. No where in my life did i ever have issues with steam of this kind, now microsoft pulls the deepest crap within their heads just to complicate things even more rather than make it simple for everyone.
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You sound like guy's from 2007, when Half life 2 came out, this is actualy quote from Amazone (rewiev of HL2)
"You MUST have an Internet connection to play. If anybody got hold of your CD key number before you, you will never be able to play the game, and Valve will NOT help you if you bought the game on eBay. I never thought I'd say this, but Valve is worse than Microsoft."
History repeats itself and no one has learned nothing.
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Given that it's a STEAM box, one could hope that it would be something legit and less crappier than xbox one.
If Microsoft hired steam to do xbox one for them, would have likely gone much better i bet. It's like Steam has the know how-to satisfy everyone, even if they implement something big. Microsoft just wants to force things in without thinking globaly.
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Xbox One WILL NOT WORK in any country outside of the 21 Listed Here
They're making the boycott easy...
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Why are people equating the XBone with Steam? Sure the 'puchase is actually a glorifid rental' principle is the same between them, but ignoring that Steam is a retailer wheras Xbone is a platform and thus any issues with the latter are inherently greater in magnitude, Valve makes it attractive to get game licenses for Steam. Microsoft is making getting game licenses for Xbone look positively retarded.
Look, the PC is an open platform. On PC you have a slew of alternative retailers from Steam to choose from, both physical and digital. Off the top of my head as far as digital... Origin, Uplay, Greenman, Gamersgate, GOG, Humble Store... The PC platform isn't locked down and we're all better off for it.
Steam is then a voluntary choice when using the platform. Sure it sucks that it offers rentals rather than true purchases but we can weigh that against the ancillary services offered (convenience, friends list, frequent price reductions, etc.) and the stability/flexibility of the arrangement (Steam generally isn't region-locked and won't take our games offline in the foreseeable future) and determine for ourselves whether it's worth it. And for most of us, it is. And if it isn't there are alternative ways to get the games we desire. And becuase of that Valve has incentive to ensure that Steam is competitive. Which means more goodies and less bullshit for the consumer.
With Xbone you're not only unable to buy games but your privacy is liable to be invaded, your ability to use your licenses is stunted, there will be no alternative whatsoever for the exclusive titles they offer, and the consumer can't even choose their own purchase price threshold. The only solution is to swear off the platform altogether. Where Valve makes up for the unfortunate terms of their trades, Microsoft is pissing on our faces and calling it rain. The Steam-only restirction on games like Skyrim, Civ V or Squenix ports is bullshit too, btw.
Basically, Steam provides extra value to compensate for the onerous business model, and there exists competiton on the PC platform to encourage Valve to make their store attractive. This is simply not true with Xbone.
The issue isn't the business model. It's how it's executed and how much bullshit consumers can tolerate.
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Spoken like a champ. Now if people actually took the time to read this and use their brains outside of their own little boxes, perhaps they would see things not only positively but also negatively. There's more bad than good in what Microsoft is doing, alot of people don't seem to see that. By the time something like that goes through it's like having them get a good portion of the gaming industry in their hands, and who knows what could come next.
It's like people are given privacy and freedom of speech and some of these people don't seem to notice that Microsoft is trying to take those things away from them, this is a figurative way of speaking. Change the subject and you will see my point with different eyes.
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boycott (ˈbɔɪkɒt)
transitive verb
(gaming industry) To bitch about a company's business practices while shoveling wads of cash into their gullet with wild abandon.
seriously what is the fucking point of all these boycott sites, like 80% of these people are going to buy it anyway
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I really wish people would stop making stupid puns.
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Signed.
Does anyone know how to get magic marker off a computer screen?
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Hai guys,
http://www.xboxshun.com/
bye.
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