What gives?
Maybe name the game so people don't have to guess.
It could be a bug.
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Oh sure. The Blackout Club. I am just wondering if there are other reasons for the CV to be removed. https://store.steampowered.com/app/599080/The_Blackout_Club/
https://steamdb.info/app/599080/
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In the grey market that game costs less than 1$. That's why Steamgifts marks it as no value
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may i ask where is this grey market everyone talking about?
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Russia. I'm not sure why or how this affects anyone as I am unaware how to buy keys as a Russian or if they would even be global if I could. It sucks all the same.
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Whitemarket would be authorized resellers like Fanatical, GMG etc. Blackmarket would be illegal where the expectation would be that the keys would be bought fraudulently. Then you have graymarket, which is somewhere in the middle. Places like eBay, G2A etc.
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Thanks, and how does this grey market get the keys for the game if according to OP the game was only ever 60% discounted? Asking just out of curiosity.
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Either the dev hands them out for promotion, or they're bought fraudulently. Then resold. The point is that it's not authorized, it's just not outright 100% illegal, hence gray, rather than black or white.
SG is gray too. It's not illegal, but it's (mostly) not an authorized distribution point. There are exceptions. Some devs give their games away here as promotion.
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wait so G2A is a black market but buy a key no long go from there, I didn't know such atrocity :(
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G2A is gray. The site itself isn't illegal, but it's very common for the games to be bought fraudulently. Some devs even asked people to pirate their games instead of buying keys from places like that.
https://www.pcgamer.com/developers-tell-people-to-pirate-their-games-instead-of-using-g2a/
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But why would it be no value, why not reduced value? It's still not free no matter how you look at it.
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I believe if you can get it for more than 90% off, it will count as free.
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that's not how it works.
0cv is only used for things that were actually free, reduced CV is put on things that are excessively discounted(usually through bundles), its roughly a 95% discount threshold
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Well this game was never free so I'm still at a loss but the general consensus is that it's cheap in Russia so it should have no value.
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Has that been confirmed by Support?
I know about this thread but I guess I didn't know that "real" games would be added to the no-value list. I thought it was limited to those fake, asset-flip type games.
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Maybe someone reported it as such. I have no idea how things work other than everything moves one way and that is down. haha
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I'm pretty sure they only set games to 0 CV for the fake high priced games or when it is given away for free. I think the only other time was when there was really high priced stuff in a cheap bundle that gave a ton of CV and people were exploiting it, like the game maker software bundles.
I feel like it might have been a mistake because it definitely isn't a fake overpriced game and I don't see anything about it being given away for free.
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When the price is -98% or -99% and exploited with a lot of copies, the support reduce it to 0cv (= free).
I don't know if this was the case with this game.
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This doesn't exactly answer your question but in case you weren't aware -- if you hover over the asterisks on the giveaway page, it will show the date for both "reduced CV" and "zero CV."
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It said full value when I made the giveaways, the CV was backdated to a point just before I made any giveaways for the game. Only just. Not way way long time ago or just the other day but just before I made any. Pretty interesting. I guess the keys became cheap at that point. Well interesting to know I guess.
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Retroactive changes are actually pretty common. It's usually possible to tie these changes to something specific, like a giveaway on Alienware Arena or Gleam.io or something. But there have been a few changes that have really not made a lot of sense.
Oh, and I forgot to mention, there is a page where the "reduced" and "zero CV" dates can be seen also.
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It happens.
You just have to shrug and accept it.
When games (Beta/Early access for example) are removed from Steam you can lose points too. Retroactively.
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Oh that's interesting as well. Never thought of that.
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Canispedia strikes again! I have been here 6 years. Never found that out on my own.
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That's new for me too, lol! I already barely got past that the game's hub page (magnifier icon after its name) has bundling and GA information of a game, and it's easier to un-hide than going for the whole list.
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https://www.sgtools.info/lastbundled
This is from almost 1 year ago, but added to the list 2 days ago.
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Hm but it's no value not reduced value and it was set for december 23 2023 not april 21 2023. Good to know I guess.
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It looks like it was retroactively set to "bundled" as of April and then "zero CV" as of December. (Check the image in my earlier post, it shows both dates).
The "bundled" date makes sense, it was in a Humble bundle around then. (Not sure why it took so long to add to the list, though).
The "zero CV" date is still a bit of a mystery. I guess that may have been the date that the first large batch of keys was available on the grey market for cheap? I am not sure.
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Could be, who knows. I was under the impression it would go to reduced unless there was actually a case of it being given away at some point but I guess I was wrong. I mean if this is the case every game on the site outside of new AAA releases will go to no cv whatsoever as soon as someone gets around to it. Oh well.
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Games do not get moved to the "zero CV" list except under specific circumstances. So this won't be a trend, it's a one-off. And it could be a mistake, that has happened occasionally. You can try opening a ticket, you might eventually get some CV back!
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I'm not too worried about it, level 8 is a long long way off and honestly I was just interested in why it was moved straight to no value despite the game never being free. Just thoughts.
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I think it's a legit question, I'm glad you brought it up. I would love to see some confirmation from Support, if not with this game specifically, then just in general -- is 'very cheap on the grey market' sufficient to move a game to the no-value list? Even if it's a 'real' game and not in the asset flip / shovelware category?
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I put in a ticket just for funsies, maybe I'll get a reply and learn something. If this is the case then I am not sure what to do as I cannot buy 50-60 dollar games to give away no matter how much I would like to.
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I would stop worrying about CV honestly, the GA access beyond level 7 is minimal(I mean just look here, look how tiny the bars for 8+ are)
instead look at games that are good and focus on picking those up to giveaway at a slower pace. Or become a compulsive mystery bundle gambler like me, you will end up with plenty of GA fodder(of all CV status's) that way. Don't go buying things just because you feel like you need to make giveaways.
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A mod replied that if it is in fact considered too cheap in the grey area it will be put to 0 cv instead of reduced. To me I really don't understand that since the game is still not free. But yes giving away cheap keys is out of the question if they will have no value. The game in question is around 96% cheaper in the grey market. I was thinking it would be set to reduced value at some point but did not think it would be set to no value. Well I guess now we know!
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Things get reduced retroactively and arbitrarily. There is no consistency. First time?
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Out of the blue? Yes. I understood the bundle thing and when a game gets given away from the publisher for a limited time or whatever but this was just out of nowhere. Apparently the reasoning is "It's cheap in Russia".
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Not just Russia. Not sure where you got them, but a quick search shows me I can get them for $1. Dragon Fist, Takelings and Budget Cuts 2 are cheaper than that. I wonder what might happen to those games?
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Like all other games around here, reduced to nothing! I notice a trend.
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They will be reduced to, at least, bundled status (= 15% cv).
If the games were so cheap that it hit the -98% or -99% and it gots exploited with a lot of copies, then it/they will, most likely, be reduced to free (= 0cv)
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There is no consistency though. While this one is fairly cheap, and has been given away many times, and was reduced, the other games I mentioned are cheaper to buy, and have been given away just as many times recently. Yet, no change.
Blackout Club 88 copies. $1. 30 CV.
Budget Cuts 2 98 copies. 50c. 30 CV.
Takelings 59 copies. 50c. 20 CV.
Dragon Fist 189 copies. 50c. 30 CV.
As you can see zero consistency. The others might get reduced at some point, or they might never be reduced. It's certainly not based on the resale price, or the number of copies given away here.
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In grey markets I have just seen:
Blackout Club: 0.42€
Budget Cuts 2: 0.37€
Takelings: 0.27€
Dragon Fist: 0.25€
The most logical thing is that all of them would be no value, otherwise anyone could exploit their own CV
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I was using rounded numbers, and accounting for fees. Also making it easier to understand. The logical thing would indeed be for them to all fall under the same category, and if one should be reduced, all should. Yet, that is not what happened.
As for exploiting CV, yes, anyone can, and many do exactly that. What reducing things to zero does is stop people from wanting to give things away in the first place. It's fine if you got your CV five years ago, you'll never lose it, but if you're trying to get it now, it likely won't last long.
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Yet, no change.
The yet is the important thing.
It will be reduced, the only unclear thing is when
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That is not what yet means in that instance. What is unclear is not when, but if. There is absolutely no guarantee they will be reduced.
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The if is not unclear.
It gave a source that sold the games for -95% or higher = reduced.
98/99% = free, if exploited. Which was the case with this games.
The only unclear thing are when it will be reduced and for which date.
I made 967 add game tickets, trust my word that i know it so good as the mods.
In some cases better :-D
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The games listed all came out cheap at the same time. No idea why this one specifically was chosen, when Dragon Fist was both cheaper, and given away here more often, but that's how it played out.
You seem convinced there is some logic and consistency behind these decisions, and I completely disagree. I think we can both agree that these cheap games all coming out at the same time, and given away here in similar numbers, all should be reduced if one should, but while you seem convinced that will happen, I am not.
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Logic = A mod handled a ticket or seen it by himself. He don't handled tickets about the other games and/or don't found them by himself.
Should more mods work much more on the free and reduced games adding, absolutely yes. It would reduce the exploit/abuse of many games (mostly crap freebies and DIG bundles).
But we can't change it.
So yes, it take many months in the most cases and this is the reason why i stopped to make such tickets because the mods could see 95% by themself with only checking barter.
And as long as this not happen, i don't waste my lifetime anymore for such basic stuff.
I am not convinces that it will happen, i am absolute sure that it will happen.
If tomorrow, in 3 months, 1 year or whenever is the only unclear thing and we as users can't influence this.
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I think they will be eventually and probably backdated in such a way. It might take a while. I thought they should be set to reduced value since they are cheap but not free. I guess I am wrong in that.
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It will definitely be backdated, but whether it remains full, reduced, or zero, is the part that is unclear.
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Well they will not remain full value and I never thought as much. But whether they will be reduced or removed is indeed unclear. I will certainly check to see if a game is -95% or more before making giveaways from now on.
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"I made 967 add game tickets"
Does that mean you reported the games to be reduced?
I made a ticket almost two months ago requesting a bundle of a popular AAA game be added to the GA list. Zero response. I don't have much faith in the ticket system if that's what you're talking about.
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This game is about 96% discount so the threshold for no value seems to be 95%
I thought it would be reduced value but now it is known.
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I don't think so really. I mean all the games get reduced at some point. In fact I knew the game would get reduced and didn't really care. I did care that the cv was set to 0 since the game has never been free. But I guess that is not the case and if a game is, from the looks of it, more than -95% it will be considered free. So I guess I will need to do math from now on to be sure I don't give away 0 cv games. I can't give away full cv games, but don't want to give away 0 cv games either. It's a fine line I guess.
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80% discount ones seemed to be at the sweet spot, it's better than the most common 3-4x $-CV ratio. It's definitely troublesome that there is no clear cut-off for discount-based bundling, and that the daily fluctuation of currencies with their regions can make it change as well.
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Well I know I will be more observant of pricing before making giveaways from now on.
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OP tried cheat system, got caught, sg fixed it, end of story.
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You don't even know anything that comes out of your own mouth, or this case fingers, let alone anything that happens in the greater world so I don't know why you choose to spout such nonsense. Sounds like you have a worse life than my own and choose to go around darkening everyone's doorstep as much as possible. Maybe you should try to improve your situation instead.
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I certainly don't see you giving away anything worth a damn.
They gave away multiple copies of Hogwart's Legacy and other high tier unbundled games such as Dave the Diver, Days Gone etc. in the last 12 months so that's not a fair statement. 😿
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ok fair enough, I only checked the first page because it's a small thing to me
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If you want to see a real atricious zero CV game check this one out: https://store.steampowered.com/app/1107300/Down_in_Bermuda/
A very nice puzzle game that was never bundled or given away. It repeatedly hit 90% off on Steam though so putting it onto the reduced CV list would make sense at least. It probably got reduced to zero value because of regional pricing and 2-3 users doing 5-copy regional giveaways with it.
This means that any deeply discounted game can be reduced to zero value just because of regional pricing. And by the same logic moderately discounted games could be put on the reduced value list already. Something like 50% off used to be enough to put Argentina and Turkey prices to about 95% off compared to the US price. It is totally arbitrary, depends on how the mods feel about the number of giveaways done for it. You can find never bundled games that regularly hit 90% off on the full value, the reduced value and a few times on the zero value list. There's zero consistency and I'd argue that putting games because of regional prices on the reduced and zero value lists does more harm than good. Imagine if every game that used to use the old standard regional pricing scheme was made reduced value as soon as they hit 50-60% off on Steam.
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A mod reply seems to imply that games below -95% in grey markets means they will be set to 0 value. Steam pricing be damned. :D
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It happens. Take a look at ggdeals before creating your giveaway if you're wanting to be proactive with it. You see historical low being crazy low, you know it's gonna drop to 0 cv at some point.
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Well I was gambling the game would be set to reduced which I honestly don't mind but I can't spend money for something to be considered of no value. Or maybe I am thinking too much on that as well. I don't know but I'd rather not risk doing giveaways that are considered to have no value. I've just been trying to do enough reduced value giveaways to keep a good ratio. Again maybe I am overthinking things.
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Yeah. I wouldn't put that much into it.
A couple things to be mindful of:
Never let giveaways here stress your finances.
It's ideal to gift games because you hope it uplifts a recipients day. Leveling up or maintaining ratios is simply a by product of being charitable rather than the goal.
You'll always be happy with the results if you're mindful of this. IMO.
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Thank you for that sentiment, I think I just need to slow down and relax a bit. Maybe instead of trying to maintain ratios just check for wishlisted games I can afford to give out occasionally. :D
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No problem at all. Sometimes it helps to talk things out with other people.
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So I think I more or less understand now. Feel free to discuss further however. In Russia game is cheap.
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