I was reading a few incidents in the marketplace lately and it got me thinking of Steam Subscriber Agreement (https://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/?snr=1_44_44_)

I was not active in Steam back then, but from what I know steam has changed its policy over markeplace reversals. Meaning "all marketplace transactions are final", cannot be reversed or refunded etc etc etc..

But I was remembering 1 term in that agreement.. I found some time and searched for it.
It's actually 2 things:

a) 1.C. Your account
"When you complete Steam’s registration process, you create a Steam account ("Account"). Your Account may also include billing information you provide to Valve for the purchase of Subscriptions, Content and Services and any physical goods offered for purchase through Steam (“Hardware”). You may not reveal, share or otherwise allow others to use your password or Account except as otherwise specifically authorized by Valve. You are responsible for the confidentiality of your login and password and for the security of your computer system. Valve is not responsible for the use of your password and Account or for all of the communication and activity on Steam that results from use of your login name and password by you, or by any person to whom you may have intentionally or by negligence disclosed your login and/or password in violation of this confidentiality provision. Unless it results from Valve’s negligence or fault, Valve is not responsible for the use of your Account by a person who fraudulently used your login and password without your permission. If you believe that the confidentiality of your login and/or password may have been compromised, you must notify Valve via the support form (https://support.steampowered.com/newticket.php) without any delay."

I'm specifically referring to "Unless it results from Valve’s negligence or fault, Valve is not responsible for the use of your Account by a person who fraudulently used your login and password without your permission"

b) 4
"You may not use Cheats, automation software (bots), mods, hacks, or any other unauthorized third-party software, to modify or automate any Subscription Marketplace process or the process of Steam account creation."

What is something that would make Steam itself liable? What would be a case of steam negligence or fault?

Also, many times in such cases the "attacker" is using a scripted bot to run fast many transactions. If this is against their terms why is it not implemented in all hijacked accounts that did those transactions in this fashion?
Why there is no real-time delay on those transactions? A human hand cannot set 150 transactions in 10 minutes (random example.. Can be any number on any impossible time) etc.

"Valve is not responsible for the use of your Account by a person who fraudulently used your login and password without your permission."
There are cases where this doesn't happen from human error and it's impossible to find the source. I'm speaking of rare cases where Valve can't find any problem whatsoever on the data of the account but still recognizes it is not your use on your account (weird part here is there is no mention anywhere of how something like this is possible by Valve). It's a grey zone where Valve cannot "blame" the user but it's also not Valve's fault (sounds weird I know, but it has happened and no explanation was given as to how or why). In this scenario you get a connection to the 1.C. term which somehow voids the "all marketplace transactions are final". But.. How?.. I mean.. What can they see in theory for this to take effect?

I hope I'm making sense as to what I'm asking here. But to put it simply.. What would really make Valve to make that exception that is so vaguely written on their terms and reverse a marketplace transaction? Because it's certainly not out of the goodness of their hearts..

Also, in "Unless it results from Valve’s negligence or fault, Valve is not responsible for the use of your Account by a person who fraudulently used your login and password without your permission" it must have a hole.. If Valve is negligent then the next sentence is out the window

2 years ago*

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I am not sure what answeres you expect from someone now or to which destination/target/goal this should lead in the end.

They don't reverse stuff because it would double items (the items still exists and the other one get his lost money back), so it would destroy the marketplace, step by step, because it would destroy the value of the things (cards, items etc.).

To speculate if they would replace something when Valve get hacked direct or a flood happen in a server room and the servers sends then, in your name, a trade offer to someone etc..
----> It will not happen

They don't replace. FINISH

2 years ago
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No goal here. It's just that this got me thinking about what can be "valve's negligence".
99,99% are user fault anyway directly or indirectly but this term is there for a reason.

I'm not trying to find a hole about this reversal thing. I'm trying to understand what kind of an exception would steam do in theory. Obviously it's a once in a million situation so it has no effect to the 99,99% of cases.
What kind would it have to be according to their terms atleast

2 years ago
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Write them a message, see what they answer.

Besides that, know a lawyer that tell you why they used this little thing in their terms.
It have for sure something to do with, most likely american, laws.

2 years ago
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"Hello, thanks for contacting us please read our terms of service" This is gonna be the answer and you know it xD

Maybe it's an American law but those change according and to various region laws (hence why some policies differ in the EU) because of the nature of the company (internet based)

WHY this clause exists I understand. To WHAT it actually applies to is what I don't. Valve getting hacked or this flood thing you said (I don't understand it but it doesn't matter much) is black and white scenarios.
But some cases and clauses in contracts exist because of that 1 in a million exception that something isn't black or white.
I'm trying to see if in theory something like this can happen.
(No, I don't want to reverse something or have someone wanting too. It's purely curiosity of this 1 in a million.. I'm a curious cat :P And even if in theory something like this gets answered it doesn't mean anyone can apply it to anywhere as data from accounts and and and should really BE that 1 in a million..)

2 years ago
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I guess half of it is lawyer jargon to make sure Valve is never responsible.

2 years ago
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Unless it results from Valve’s negligence or fault, Valve is not responsible for the use of your Account by a person who fraudulently used your login and password without your permission.

Valve is providing a service (the Steam Account and everything "inside"), which is intended and supposed to work correctly, with a decently working security level. Hence if you're correctly using your login + password + 2FA, nothing bad shall happen !

Steam market trades are usually not very valuable items... When something "unexplained" happens, it may mean that nobody was willing to hire an expert to find the explanation deep inside the servers logs... such a task may cost thousands bucks !

TL;DR: no explanation provided doesn't imply unexplainable, it may mean too expensive to explain !

2 years ago
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