How do you react to people creating giveaways here for games which aren't Steam redeemable, regifting or doesn't match the game on the giveaway itself because they didn't fnd it on the list?
I agree with you, and have to say that most of the users here tent to react in a gentle manner.
Always pointing to FAQ or explaining the guidelines-rules.
Although sometimes you may see a user registered, don't know, 3 years ago and still trying to do that things.
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Not all people have such bad temper, but I've seen enough to spill it out here. I saw people raging as much as people trying to help. My hope is to reach these few brute hearts and put some sense on them.
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The amount of people I saw who were doing this for the first time was… two I think? Out of thirty-ish. One was such a repeat offender that he was caught at the ninth(!) regift, only because he was dumb enough to not only regift a fairly popular and wanted HOG, but didn't even have the brains to at least wait more then 30 minutes after the 50-piece GA has ended.
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I've witnessed some deals here, I don't know if depends so much of the game being given away, but 5 out of 10 people just point out in a rude manner that the giver is breaking the rules, luckly the other 50% seems willing to help. Now about people who re-gifts on purpose, knows what they're doing is wrong, we have proof of their deeds and they keep doing it, then there's no secret: report. But my hearts shambles when I see new people doing so (and when I say "new", I mean this one's very first giveaway) and some user have a negative response to it. :(
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Re-gifting is one of the worst things one can do on Steamgifts.
This can be done out of ignorance but that doesn't go for those that are serial re-gifters.
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Yes, these serial re-gifters are some serious cases, I report any I found. When you get to know the concept of "re-gift", such attitude sound despicable, but when you're a new kid on the block this doesn't look as bad as we "veterans" see it. :)
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I'm not sure I fully agree with you. I don't remember ever seeing somebody reacting in such an agressive way ( "Geez, another idiot! Read the ****ing FAQ, you @sshole!" or "You can't give this game here, delete it now!!!"). People might not be talking as the queen of england on her birthday party, but there are usually not rude either.
I also don't agree with your comparison. If somebody breaks the law, not knowing is never a justification, the same applies to the rules. The FAQ is clearly aviable and it should be everybody's duty to read it and inform themselves. ("I bet you didn't read the rules yourself until you got in trouble" sorry, you lost the bet. I'm also reasonably sure I'm not so special either).
I do agree that everybody should always reply in a polite and respectful way, however you also must understand there is only so much patience and understanding a person can muster before they simply get tired of it. Specially since, sadly, not all rulebreakers are new and simply not knowing what they are doing. There are people who just don't care and intentionally disregard the rules (no, I'm not speculating, there were cases then they just admitted it and insulted others who told whem not to do it).
Sorry if I come out as bitter and, perhaps, aggressive.
Oh, and I love your fluxogram.
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+1
Love these posts, saves me the time to type any wall of text. :P
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I'm also reasonably sure I'm not so special either
Sorry hun, you're totally special.
I mean, not about the rule-reading-thing, that's likely very uncommon sense, but, y'know, just in general. :)
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If somebody breaks the law, not knowing is never a justification, the same applies to the rules.
It's not the same. Yes, though not all legislation but those ones which inflict punishment on -like Criminal Law- don't care if people read them or not. But even if people don't read, in natural flow of life, they don't commit those crimes. While obeying the law is usual, breaking law is unusual. A place suchlike here shall have their own rules, regardless of people's normal living.
BUT, this can't be an excuse for not reading the rules. People are in charge of their own lives, choices etc. So, they have to be careful what they're doing with it. And if they can, they have to learn about what they will face with. If not, they will have to bear the consequences.
AND, this also can't be an excuse for people who are being rude, if any. (Personally, I haven't come across with them. Two wrongs do not make a right.
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That's also a good point, this is, let's just say like "a community apart from real life". If an user serial re-gifts, report them, ban them, whatever the law implies to, but then comes a new guy, won a game that already have on another platform (it happens), regifts, so here enter the benefit of doubt, punishment is or isn't necessary. I'm not saying that we should pat the head of first-time infractors, but in this community sometimes we can revert the infractioon, so no punishment.
I'll put your name in my "I'll show this guy a printscreen of an incredibly rude user" list, just wait for the evidence. xD
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Regifting isn't (hopefully) actually an intuitive thing for most people, most people (ought) understand that asking for things they don't need is just pure greed and selfishness :P
It's common sense to check rules to confirm what the considerations on the matter are, after that.
Revert the infraction? People can clear their records at any time by activating the game they didn't activate, or returning the gift they multiwon. There's no permanent punishment on SG.
Which also means, anyone still in infraction is likely there deliberately, and leniency toward that is understandably hard to muster. And that's the foundation toward any hostility you've noticed.
I'm not saying there's an excuse for personal attacks, or for assuming the worst of people without extensive cause [like with first time offenders/new members to the site], but you need to keep 'conduct of the members on the site toward rule-breakers' and 'rule enforcement toward rule-breakers' separate: It's fine to argue that people ought be more willing to explain things respectfully to new rule-breakers, rather than reacting in a hostile manner. It's another thing to defend rule-breakers. So long as you mix those two topics into one, you undermine the first with the second.
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Just to clarify, people that make personal attacks toward others are rule-breakers themselves. There may not be any punishment for it, but it's an equivalent breach of the social contract.
It's nearly impossible to respect anyone willing to resort to that behavior.
That being said, overall hostility is understandable, given the circumstances, and efforts should be made toward respectful communication from both sides.
As soon as it becomes a matter of being defensive, or aggressive, it starts getting ugly.
Don't try to defend the matter, don't try to be overly assertive on the matter.
Do whatcha gotta do to resolve the matter, and move on.
Anything past that is self-centeredness, or indulgence, respective to rule-breakers and those who call them out.
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I often see aggressivity towards rulebreakers that are new to the site. I can understand anger when there's around a serial regifter or rule-breaker, but I can't understand raging with newbies.
I myself explained to some new guys how SG works and avoided them a ban (as all of them asked if you can regift to gain CV). Most of new users comes here searching on google "free steam keys" so you can guess their first intention but not all of them are toxic leechers or rulebreakers, they just need a friendly introduction. And I have to disagree with you, not knowing CAN be a justification if the context is alien to you.
Just to shamelessly call out my ignorance, I discovered less than two years ago that FAQ=Frequently Asked Questions as I never used forums or similar and I'm using internet since I was 10. Also I would never guess that I could find the rules within the frequently asked questions.
Nometheless I expect zero tolerance towards users that breaks repeatedley rules.
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I also do not copmprehend (I doubt someone will get the reference), maybe the rage goes out of control... or maybe some users are so used to see serail regifters that they diminish the probability of a newbie doing so... we might never know... o_o
Yes, perfectly natural to not tolerate rule breakers on a frenzy, as that's mostly inexcusable, I mean, they know the rules, they know what they're doing is wrong and they keep doing so, if no one is to report them, these guys will be on a roll forever. D:
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Hear hear!
The OP lost me at the over-exaggerated examples, then drove me away with the "bet"...
You are not bitter at all.
"Gentle healers make stinking wounds."
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Never heard this one before, but it sounds equivalent to "love hurts", which is true.
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Bitter? Aggressive? Not at all. And you've got a point there. Actually many of them. :)
Firstly, the "berserkers" are quite a rare sight indeed, some people sound just rude, but I've seem some raging bulls. I honestly don't know what gives in that being, next time I see one I'll be sure to capture the moment so you all can witness. o_o
You're also right, if one breaks a rule this one should be punished, I'm not forcing anyone to forgive these rule breakers, even if they're new, principally when there's the sexy rounded FAQ button right in front of their eyes, but I also took part of a case where punishment could be avoided (caution: long story ahead). I won an unredeemable gift that the re-gifter won and couldn't redeem it either (one of those DLC that are visible to everyone regardless you owning the base game or not), so I told the gifter that she was breaking the rules and pointed how to solve it, then this one brings up that she won it from another user, so I encouraged her to solve this problem with the moderation, even with her attempt (and I quote "attempt") of re-gifting it and involving the moderation, she wasn't punished because I could help her to back out from regifting, like when someone steals a purse but then gives back to the owner (OK, that was a crappy example). But anyways, happy ending! :D
Oh, and this helping brings up the next subject, indeed "ain' anybody got time fo' dat", if I were to help every single new user in distress, the little free time I have would be gone, but then comes the part when we could remain neutral, for the best we could simply say something like "It's not permited doing that here, please take a look at the FAQ", if not we could simply ignore, just as I stated. It's just sad that some people use this free time to be rude. :/
Oh, and reading the FAQ before anything SHOULD be considered normal, but... well, for some it wopuld be considered "cultural shock". lol
And thank you for the text wall, that really feels like people are paying attention to what I have to say. ♥
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If they're new I tell them that what they're doing is against the rules and that they should delete the giveaway before they get in the trouble. If they're not new then I simply blacklist them and move on.
So please, do have a deep breath before you start to slam your keyboard with hatred, instead try to help a fellow user who's just being kind to give a game for free (the giveaway may be invalid, but it's the intention that counts, right?).
Their intention was to get free CV. Not a very nice intention if you ask me.
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You see, you're one of the good guys. ;)
Well, I mean the good intention new users. Obviously the ones doing it intentionally to hoard CV should be blacklisted AND reported.
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The part i am not comfortable with is as ChibiCthulhu said they are trying to beat the system. That's not very grateful. I try to be polite with 1 day regifter and a guy actually listened to me and deleted the giveaway but i don't think being rude to a 1 year old user is such a bad thing as you point out. If I would be in a position like that, I wouldn't mind people being rude at me simply because I know what i am doing. And I strongly disagree with "people don't read rules unless they are in trouble" part. My first thought was if i can able to join giveaways for my friends and saw that i couldn't enter games that i owned means something. I read the rules about it.
And again I don't like the 4 year old example. Because i am capable of opening and looking for my answer. This site is not a real time quiz or anything you can spend you points if you wish then can read the FAQ's part you are interested in.
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Depends, I've met a 1 years old user who barely visited the site, he didn't break any rules, but thats proves that their time registered here isn't quite an evidence of their experience here. Now some people with a 2 months old account could bear a history of more than 10 regifts. :(
Everyone is capable of doing so, but many naturally... erm... "dismiss" the obligation opportunity, and I believe by giving a second chance for first-time infractors (depending on the circunstances, of course) is a perfect way to change this "nature", you know, people that likes to learn it the hard way, but hopefully they learn.
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I am not saying they don't get a second chance. Don't get me wrong i am just saying hiding behind that "hard way learning" logic is a bad example. We should encourge to read instead. And i would write regifters what they are doing wrong i did a couple of times if i thought they are willing to read but just the other day I saw 2 guys who claim to read FAQ couldn't find their answers. FAQ even has the same question that they asked. That's a bit discouraging to see so i simply ignore or just report them if they are older than 1 month.
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Well i still think people should read the rules before doing anything on a site but i guess now a days that is to much to ask and gets a free pass.
I do agree some rage about it and go to far,but i still think there is no excuse for not knowing the rules when that should be the first thing you learn.You do not go play football and just wing it and say i am sorry Ref,but i did not know the rules so this time can you be nice to me.
Dude, what if you're a 4 years old kid, first time in a school, the teacher asks you "what's the capital of United States?" and the kid answers "New York" and the teacher replies "Hot damn! You're the dumbest b*tch I've even seen,
That would apply more if say the Capital of the United States was say posted above the teacher on the wall,why do they not know it?Maybe it is because they do not have the right books to learn it.?In this case the rules are posted and as such anyone can read them,the same as if the answer to that question was something they where suppose to study,or the answer is right in front of them and they still fail to learn it.
The rules for this site are posted here and as such should be easy enough to read,and i still do not get this lets go to a site and not even bother reading the rules,so we make a post/GA that breaks the rules and we should some how be gentle with them because they may not know.
I agree that some take it a bit far,but i do think a lot of these rules get broken because it so easy to break them with small penalty for doing so.I simply can not tell an office that since i was unaware that i was breaking the law,that you have to go easy on me.Ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking it.Same goes for rules ignorance of them should not be an excuse to play dumb like you did not know the rules,like this site is some how has none so why should i even bother looking for any.
What does irk me is people finding excuses or reason why people break the rules and why we should give them a break because well hell they do not bother to even find out the rules,yet those who point out they are breaking them should go easy on them because those who broke the rules where to lazy to bother themselves,so now users most tell them the rules and be nice about it.Also in some cases people know the rules and still do not care,i am leaning toward most who break them,are aware and when caught just play stupid.
Sad part is,even if the the rules where posted in BIG READ LETTERS there would still be those who do not bother,break them,and then play dumb.I may be harsh but i think anyone who fails to read the rules or does not understand can also ask,and if you fail to do that and break them that it should be more then a slap on a wrist.Like loss of points total and at least a month ban so they can have time to see what they might miss and time to think about it.
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there's a lot of angry people here, but there's also a lot of idiots, lazy and blind users.
takes 5 minutes to read the FAQ and guidelines. they are even so simple that a google translation will be understandable in other languages.
let's not excuse their behavior by blaming the community.
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I'm not blaming community as whole, just the jerks. :/
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the site is called "steamgifts" not desuragifts or goggifts etc...this should really be a no brainier and non issue...
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+potato
I do believe some people are naïve to the point of skipping this detail, but I guess that's not the point here. At least for me this info is pretty much evident: SteamGifts = STEAM gifts. But for the oddballs maybe a simple warning would suffice to back out and learn their lesson, and not to go full retarded on the new users. ;(
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Most of us want to help and inform, but as a few have said there is a lot of repeat offenders and those who simply can't be bothered to read up on the site they wish to use. I read the FAQ before I signed up and check things regularly. I was scared shitless when I first started here and tried to make sure I understood everything. People are going to make mistakes and that's ok, but with the constant flood of free games, ref links, scammer posts etc I just try to ignore them now as it takes time to reply/report and I don't wan't to flood the system with tickets that others have likely already sent.
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Yes, and I'm starting to realize I didn't made my plead clear, what I'm actually asking is to have a little more patience with new users (regardless their registered time). About the repeat offenders that's another case, they must be reported and blacklisted, and it's actually double infuriating as because of them many doesn't have patience even for new users. :(
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and among those poor clueless bastards, there's a good deal of repeat offenders... I just love watching them burn
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Everyone does, their ashes smells to justice. But then again, new users paying the price of repeat offernder misdeeds isn't justice, I'm asking to balance things, not to forgive everyone.
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I have to respectfully disagree as well. While it's never necessary to say READ THE ****ING RULES DUMBASS, I... don't think I've ever seen anyone be that aggressive. There are some snide remarks like "Ugh, another regift. Blacklisted" but never super aggressive. Plus, even though there are generally 2-5 helpful posts like "You can't give away this game, please read the FAQ here:" very rarely does the OP take down the giveaway or even respond, indicating to most that they're doing it on purpose. Some will even respond "I'm just giving away a free game to someone who might want it, what's the big deal?"
Still, I have to say I appreciate the message and too often people do resort to anger first on the Internet but I guess I just haven't seen that as much here, especially to new folks.
EDIT: Also you can look at peoples' profiles prior to responding so none of the poll options really fit for me :)
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Feels like maybe a special Rules tab at the top of the page might make things more clear for some people = )
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Humility is the foundation of contrition.
While the phrasing in the thread seems to clearly evidence frustration, rather than anything else, it also unfortunately comes across as a lack of regret over your own actions, which in turn undermines your otherwise valid point [even if I haven't personally encountered any of the attitudes you've mentioned to any notable degree].
Likewise, as others have said above, rule-breaking users who do it on 'accident' are a small minority.
Nevermind that the attitudes you've mentioned can be validated (though certainly, their presentation cannot) toward many of the 'accidental' rule-breaking acts, since carelessness, laziness, or an overall sense of disregard were the basis of the 'accident' in the first place.
That is to say, it was a mistake, and we all make mistakes, and people should respect that in others- but at the same time, we all need to own up to our own mistakes, as well, and accept the outcome of them [and hopefully learn and grow from them].
It's the title of the thread that's really undermining you, however, because.. what does that even mean?
Did you intend another word, rather than grateful? Gracious, perhaps, as that'd fit with the context of your thread..
As is, asking for people to be grateful [for rule-breaking], aimed toward the non-rule-breakers of the site, comes across.. well, awkward is understating it :P
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I think the OP is from Brazil, English may not be their first language.
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Yeah, no, I always assume a mistake in that sense until I'm told I shouldn't . I mean, being intentionally careless with language because you don't respect others enough to care is a terrible reflection of character, but most of the times it's an honest mistake.
Just felt really weird in the context, and I think my tongue-in-cheek approach to it may [as it often does] come across a bit more serious than intended.
I'm basically more asking for clarification of their perspectives, than intending to accuse them of anything. :)
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Did you intend another word, rather than grateful?
Maybe he means that people should be grateful for giveaway creators, rather than accuse them of breaking rules.
But I don't agree with that. Doing a thing in another way is not the same doing it in proper way.
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I read the topic title and thought it would be about the people who call some bundles "garbage" just because they own most/all of the games in the bundles. How wrong I was. But this is a decent topic as well. :)
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I don't think I have seen people react in such an aggressive manner. I have seen people suggest others to read the FAQ, but without the aggressiveness.
Some new users are bound to make some mistakes, even those that read the rules. I know I did, but I learned from it.
This is a website used by people from all over the world, so for some English is not their 1st language so reading the rules alone will sometimes not be enough because they might misread something or not fully understand what is being stated there. So when they do some mistakes and someone calls them out of it by explaining why it is a mistake, they will (most likely) stop doing it.
That's why just directing someone that did something wrong to the FAQ might not help. But directing them to the FAQ and a short explanation of why what they did was wrong, might help.
Honest people will improve, bad people will keep doing "mistakes" while knowing that they aren't supposed to do them.
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You've got a point. But this stuck in my mind:
For the people who ignore the giveaway: no one will force you to help, you're may not be practicing good deeds, but also isn't practicing evil deeds.
I think this practices good deeds, because a normal person's (or most of their) reaction would be saying "Read the rules!". So, if you do this, you should be good. Not doing bad, if people do that, is a good thing in my opinion.
But, for myself, beside ignoring the giveaway and not saying a thing to the creator of it, I'm welcoming them to my BL. So, am I bad or good when viewed from this aspect? ;_;.
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This community is by FAR one of the most mild communities I've ever frequented in all my years of forum-lounging.
Perhaps I'm jaded, but I'm just not seeing the things you've mentioned in the OP.
I don't consider myself one of the most patient people in the world (it's my New Year's Resolution, however), but when you try to explain the same rule 20x to the same user and are met with constant excuses as to why they should be allowed to continue breaking that rule, it can be daunting to even the most tolerant of people. I honestly don't believe most community members hold anything against first time (or even second time) offenders -- it's the users who are constantly and flagrantly violating the rules, and subsequently drawing attention to themselves by complaining in the forums, who tend to get the most flack (and like I said, that's even mild in my opinion).
I'm not in outright disagreement with anything you've stated -- but I also believe the "problem" you're examining is quite exaggerated ....
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I agree with your whole post, but especially with the first paragraph. Overall SG is a very pleasant place to hang out and people are far less 'on the edge' than on other forums. If you break a rule here people will tell you frankly, but most of the time if the person that broke the rule admits that he did something wrong people are really helpful and the problem won't escalate. Sadly most of the time people who break the rules are quite the contrary...
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I started off year two years ago, but not sure how I ended up on this site.
I didn't read the rules, but I entered like 40 GAs and then I left.
Stumbled upon the site again 10 months ago, but decided to find out how it worked, and read the rules, asked some people, and made my first GA. Now 10 months in things are going well. Just the attitude of the individual to find out about the community and what they wish to accomplish, giving or taking.
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It's pretty usual to see new bundles with non-Steam games and a few moments later you see a lot of giveaways for these games here as if they were for Steam, or people who wing games and end up regifting them, then people already start whinning "Geez, another idiot! Read the ****ing FAQ, you @sshole!" or "You can't give this game here, delete it now!!!".
Dude, what if you're a 4 years old kid, first time in a school, the teacher asks you "what's the capital of United States?" and the kid answers "New York" and the teacher replies "Hot damn! You're the dumbest b*tch I've even seen, do me a favor and die already!", just like the kid there are new people on this site who doesn't know jack squat and upon this kind of reaction they're disoriented, the fact that the users who tried to make a giveway for a non-Steam game or regifting or giving away the wrong game already created about 20 giveaways, this doesn't mean they know 100% how this site works, and don't come at me with "they should just read the rules" because I bet you didn't read the rules yourself until you got in trouble, and I know it because it already happened to me. I thought I could win a game and give to a friend... BOOM! Suspension! Luckily I still got the won games on my inventory when I got my account suspended, so I activated them, opened a support ticket mentioning I've activated them, the moderation verified and unsuspended me, then I read the FAQs properly.
So please, do have a deep breath before you start to slam your keyboard with hatred, instead try to help a fellow user who's just being kind to give a game for free (the giveaway may be invalid, but it's the intention that counts, right?). Say what they're doing is against the rules but also tell what they're doing wrong. Inform they they can't give that game away but also that show them how to proceed. If you don't want to help then don't say anything at all.
For the people who already help these new folks: you're doing a good job, and me along with many other user appreciate this.
For the people who ignore the giveaway: no one will force you to help, you're may not be practicing good deeds, but also isn't practicing evil deeds.
For the people who acts with aggression: treat people how you want to be treated, you already were in their position before.
TL;DR
Please be more gentle towards people who are giving games for free, you can tell them they're breaking the rules without rage and can still help them. :)
Here's a fluxogram for giveaways I've just made, so you can post it in these cases instead of insulting the giver, I forgot to iregifting factor, but I'm already updating the chart. If you find any flaws or something to add to it just tell me and I'll fix it. Thank you for your attention, and have a nice day! :D
By the way, I don't have much money for a nice promotional giveaway, but here's a little bundled love train for every user and a special love for my fellow south americans. ♥
EDIT: Guys, you're giving me a lot to read, but I'm not complaining, I like that! It's just that would take an hell of a time to read them all and still have things to do (cough cough my backlog won't play by itself). But I wanted to make something clear as I see most of you are replying the same topic. Just as sigma3 said:
"and among those poor clueless bastards, there's a good deal of repeat offenders... I just love watching them burn"This is precisely my reaction! I'm not asking you to forgive every infractor, I'm asking you if you could please try to discern new users (AKA first-time infractors) from repeat offenders (AKA KILL IT WITH FIRE!), if you meet a newbie be patient to them, and if not possible just ignore. All this stuff is about some (SOME, not all) users going berserk on new users unaware of their first rule breaking, and ONLY IF this one makes another mistake then we should tag him "repeat offender" and treat this as the rest. Passing this message now maybe afterwards then we can make these new people read the f@cking FAQ or maybe even get rid once and for all this scourge who serial regifts! Make SteamGifts great again!
I'll still keep reading, I do believe I even accidentally skipped some people on the reading spree, but I'd like to read everyone's opinion on this. So please, do keep 'em coming. ;)
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