Alcohol or Weed?
+1
Why spend money on bad habits when I can spend money on habits I truly like such as gaming, manga, anime, streaming, etc.
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why do you think gaming,manga anime, streaming is a good habit XD
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Because you're not likely to kill yourself or others as you are likely to do while under the influence.
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i feel like this conversation would have an infinite loop between us :D,
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uhm, what? people who drink some beer or smoke some weed are not likely do kill themselves. why the hell do you think that? i guess that was a joke and you forgot the smiley? ^^
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+2, don't need to fuck with my senses to enjoy the what the world has to offer.
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+1
I don't need drugs to escape, I don't need to numb myself, and I am able to enjoy reality as it is. The only thing drugging myself would do is to weaken my control over myself, and that's not a good thing.
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i recently watched a discourse about consciousness and how to measure consciousness. and on a sidenote the guy mentioned that drugs like LSD actually make it so that you're more conscious than without it. that's the opposite of numbing yourself, right? :)
drugs are not necessarily numbing yourself or escaping from whatever. thinking that is a little close-minded, if you ask me (no offense). drugs also have certain benefits. they can be a lot of fun! they can enhance your experience, rather than lessen it. and most people who use drugs are not doing it because they have any problems. they are doing it for fun, or because they want to expand their concsiousness.
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I approve this comment. So very well said.
slow calp
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Examine what you just wrote.
drugs are not necessarily numbing yourself or escaping from [reality].
...followed by...
they are doing it for fun, or because they want to expand their concsiousness. (sic)
Have you really thought this through?
There are three things a drug can do: heighten functionality (sensitize); lessen functionality (desensitize); or alter consciousness (derail). Depending on the drug, it will have one or more of those effects, either simultaneously or sequentially. Regardless of which one you choose, you are affecting the functionality of your body, and that will have some impact upon your perception of reality. Whether you skew your perception "for fun" or because you want to avoid something, it still amounts to escapism. For whatever reason, reality is "not good enough" for some people, and they are unable to deal with it to their satisfaction. Instead of adapting their manner of thinking, they take drugs and alter their perception to something more of their liking.
The problem with that is the huge difference between the consciousness achieved by choice and purpose and that achieved by"discarding" choice and purpose. Being "out of control" means being unable to avoid wrong thought or action. Beyond the mental and emotional damage one may sustain, there is the physical damage done to the body. The temporary benefit of taking a drug is sometimes worth the cost when faced with physical or mental injury which may be greater. Taking drugs without medical necessity, however, is downright foolish. It harms the body while failing to provide any benefit which cannot be achieved without drugs.
I am reminded of a lecturer in Psychology while I was an undergraduate. The professor told us a story about his colleague. (Dr. Hofmann, I believe.) According to him, the Dr. spent some time traveling in an attempt to further his research on the therapeutic properties of LSD. At one point, he was introduced to an Indian Guru, to whom he explained the compound's properties in "unshackling the mind." After listening to the Dr. for a while, the Guru calmly took the vial of acid from the Dr. and drank it. Surprised, the Dr. paused, waiting for a reaction to set in, but there was none. The Guru's consciousness was already in a state where the LSD had virtually no effect on him. It was at this point that the Dr. realized he should be studying the methods people use for heightening their awareness rather than developing a drug to use as an artificial "crutch."
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Have you really thought this through?
I don't see how my two statements contradict each other. At least not, if you don't alter them. Since you interpreted my escape from whatever as escape from reality, we have to define what we mean by that. If we talk about literal reality - then I have to agree partially. Drugs, especially hallucinogens like LSD or psilocybin, certainly alter your perception of reality. And that is not necessarily a bad thing. And it's not necessarily escaping reality in the sense I meant and you implied (meaning escaping from problems in your life). If the drug leads to you being more conscious of certain things, that could even be interpreted as perceiving more of reality. Or perceiving reality with a different emphasis. Being more conscious of certain parts of reality. What I absolutely do not agree with is the "escape" part. Escape implies reality is somehow bad, and drugs are used to flee from that, and not for pure enjoyment. That is the exact opposite of what I said. This may be true for some people (who have other problems in their lifes, and who would have problems even without drugs). But it definitely is not for all people. And you shouldn't make generalizations like that.
For many people drugs are something like a hobby. Something you do on the weekend, for fun. Something you use to enhance your experience. Something that makes a party even better than without drugs. I mean, if I drink a few beers at a party, do you seriously want to tell me I am escaping reality? Can't you accept that I am just having some fun?
The problem with that is the huge difference between the consciousness achieved by choice and purpose and that achieved by"discarding" choice and purpose. Being "out of control" means being unable to avoid wrong thought or action.
Well, you do make a choice. Taking the drug is the choice you make.
Not sure what you mean by purpose. Care to elaborate?
You are not necessarily out of control. I remember taking LSD one time (ages ago). The first few hours I met some friends and was in a chatty mood. So, that's what I did. I talked to my friends, laughed and had fun with them. Then we went to a party. That house had a beautiful garden. And when I saw the garden, I decided to take a moment and enjoy this beauty. So I told my friends to go in the house alone, and that I would come later. I took a chair, sat down and started to have hallucinations. Not the kind that you probably think of. I didn't see flying elephants or anything like that (this is the image of LSD movies convey). Slight, reality-enhancing hallucinations. I enjoyed nature. I enjoyed the trees, the flowers, the nicely illuminated pond. It was a fantastic experience. It was beautiful. Then, after a while, I decided it's time to go inside to my friends. So I did that. I didn't want to have any hallucinations inside the house, so I didn't. You see, taking drugs doesn't necessarily mean completely losing control. I had a lot of control. And my other LSD trips were quite similar in that regard. I had control. I had choice. My experiences with psilocybin (mushrooms) were very different. Definitely less control there. And I am sure there are drugs like heroin that completely take control away from you. But that doesn't apply to all drugs. And it doesn't apply to all people. Again, you generalize a lot. I hope my little story made you rethink your view at least a little bit. since I know you - probably not. xD
Taking drugs without medical necessity, however, is downright foolish. It harms the body while failing to provide any benefit which cannot be achieved without drugs.
That is very wrong, and only people without any experience can talk like that (people who never did drugs are always the ones who know the most about them ^^). Different drugs have very different effects, and you cannot achieve all those without drugs. This is simply wrong. It's even wrong for soft drugs like beer or weed. If you mean you can have a lot of fun at a party as well without beer - then sure, that's correct. But it's definitely not the same as drinking beer. It is a different kind of fun. You cannot achieve the same feeling without it.
I am reminded of a lecturer in Psychology while I was an undergraduate. The professor told us a story about his colleague. (Dr. Hofmann, I believe.) According to him, the Dr. spent some time traveling in an attempt to further his research on the therapeutic properties of LSD. At one point, he was introduced to an Indian Guru, to whom he explained the compound's properties in "unshackling the mind." After listening to the Dr. for a while, the Guru calmly took the vial of acid from the Dr. and drank it. Surprised, the Dr. paused, waiting for a reaction to set in, but there was none. The Guru's consciousness was already in a state where the LSD had virtually no effect on him. It was at this point that the Dr. realized he should be studying the methods people use for heightening their awareness rather than developing a drug to use as an artificial "crutch."
Are you actually talking about Albert Hofmann? The one who discovered LSD? I read one of his books. I recall he went to Indians in that book. But mainly to try other, similar drugs. I don't recall what you described there. And since I know he studied LSD his whole life and took it himself his whole life, I have a hard time believing your story. At least I don't think his conclusion was what you say (it really doesn't fit everything we know about him). But if you have a source, I would be happy to read it.
He was actually a big fan of the drug. He said it would sharpen our senses. It would allow us to see more, hear more, and it would intensify everything. He studied LSD and other hallucinogens his whole life. And he took it himself, even as an old man (I know he did it at least in his 80s, maybe even beyond that). It certainly didn't hurt him. He was mentally very healthy, and got older than most people (he was more than 100 years old). He approved of people taking LSD under the right conditions (set & setting). He was convinced LSD could help in getting one with nature, in appreciating nature. Believe me, if you want to argue against LSD, Dr. Hofmann is really not the best argument. ;)
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Before I respond, let me say that I appreciate your manner. A calm and reasoned exchange of ideas to facilitate understanding is always preferable. As most of what you have written is in concert with my own point of view, I'll gloss over most of it and just focus on what seem to be points of misunderstanding.
Escape implies reality is somehow bad, and drugs are used to flee from that, and not for pure enjoyment.
I would say that the desire to "escape" comes from not being satisfied with reality as it is (for whatever reason). Whether a person is seeking enjoyment or seeking avoidance, it really amounts to the same thing. People do this all the time, albeit usually without drugs, so I don't see "escapism" as being so narrowly defined. I am (and was) being quite literal, here.
Well, you do make a choice. Taking the drug is the choice you make. Not sure what you mean by purpose. Care to elaborate?
Surely you know that drugs impact the functioning of your body. The control you exercise over your mind and body is therefore compromised (to a greater or lesser degree) while you are under the influence of a drug. A person only has choice up to the point where he or she is no longer able to exert control. For example, I can choose to go to sleep, and while I am asleep, I have no control. The moment I regain consciousness, however, I am back in control. This is different from my choosing to take a soporific. The moment I take the drug, I have given up some of my choice and control to the drug. It will affect me, even if I desire otherwise, and will continue to do so until my body cleanses it from my system (which takes a while). Sleeping is something I do by choice and with purpose. I can change my course of action at any time, and my mind and body are not under the influence of anything beyond my own self. Being drugged, in contrast, involves me giving up my control and purpose for the duration of the affectation.
As you rightly pointed out, how much control I give up is dependent upon the drug and dosage taken. Regarding purpose, I may only pursue any resolve I have if I retain the consciousness to do so. The degree to which I am able to act on that resolve is again dependent upon the drug and dosage taken. The point I would like to underline is that people can achieve the same results without drugging themselves. Granted, forcing yourself to relax, or focusing your attention, or turning on a burst of energy, or blocking out pain are not easy to learn, and are sometimes tricky to do. They can be done, however, and without resorting to drugs.
That is very wrong, and only people without any experience can talk like that
I have already pointed out that the human mind does not do anything while under the influence of drugs which it cannot also do without them. Unless you are referring to the feeling of being "out of control," you can most definitely "achieve the same feeling without it." You may argue that drugs enable those who do not have the necessary skill to do such things, but that does nothing to invalidate my statement. Your assumption that I have no experience with drugs is incorrect. My first twenty years were mostly spent drugged, and I have spent the past 15 years working within the medical field. I get to see "both sides" of the issue on a daily basis, and that includes the long-term effects of drug use. The human body has a wonderful capacity to heal itself, but some people mistakenly think that makes them invincible. Sooner or later, abuse takes its toll.
Regarding Dr. Albert Hofmann, yes, I know all that. I cannot, however, remember which of the original researchers was the subject of the story. It could have been Hofmann, or Osmond, or Cohen, or somebody else, but I haven't the time or means to research it. I cannot even pinpoint Dr. Marlowe, the man who told us the story, thirty years ago. One of the drawbacks of being old is that many of the people you once knew are now dead and buried. In any case, I was not "arguing against LSD." I was illustrating my point that taking drugs without medical necessity is downright foolish.
I could write a book about the damage done by the over-prescription of pharmaceuticals and drug-abuse in general, but I'll spare you. If you think that taking drugs has no negative impact on a person's body (yes, even weed and alcohol), then you are kidding yourself.
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+1
When it comes to escapism I prefer gaming, music, movies, anime, etc. Basically entertaiment media over chemicals.
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I always preferred weed, but after 30+ I started to notice bad health reactions to alcohol, even the smallest quantities, so ONLY weed for me now..
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Last time i had weed was like 15 years ago ... never been my cup of tea tbh .
Not really much of a drinker either , but i do fancy beer in the summer to a decent degree
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Masturbation is even better than these two :-)
But when you are with friends I would chose alcohol (but do not drink too much)
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Why not masturbate with friends, drunk and on weed?
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Neither ... if it isn't fun sober, it isn't fun intoxicated.
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Weed for relaxing and alcohol for the taste.
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Just some Silver Haze now and then. Not a big fan of alcohol.
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Why would it be this or that? What about none or I don't know, both?
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That's what the straight edge option was for. That's another way of saying I don't do anything.
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I just don't understand the point of choosing. It's not like you can't do both.
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That's true. I think most folks have a preference though. In hindsight I would have added a both option.
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It's like creating a thread asking "cake or pie?" "oranges or apples?"
OP asked what people preferred - not that there's no way someone couldn't like both. ^^
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Then it should be beer or wine and sativa or indica :)
Yet there is no option to vote for both ^^
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For the sake of the conversation though, I'll say indica ^_^
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I do differentiate alcohol from weed. Most will say they are both drugs and it's mostly true, yet there is a huge gap between these two (at least of the moment). A more appropriate debate would be Weed or LSD (or w/e other drug you wanna add there).
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But the fact is that OP never said these were similar... they just asked what people preferred out of two things. Both are recreational/leisure/luxury, so it's pretty much like asking "Music or movies?" Both are a form of entertainment, but they are completely different things. So yes, you are right to differentiate them - still, why does this mean that the poll should include the choice "both"? I feel like it would be against the entire point of having a poll in the same place, because everyone who appreciate both weed and alcohol (probably the majority of the poll takers) would vote for that option. :P
It's like if someone made a poll saying "what do you prefer, games or music?" and then include the option "both". Almost everyone will choose "both" over a single option, because they like both. And then the poll is kind of useless, because we already know that people like both music and games, and the "both" option wouldn't provide any actual information regarding the forum's preferences. Of course I'm just speaking out of experience with polls on this website, where most of the time poll takers tend to submit the most neutral response available - my guess is that it's not specific to this community, but simply normal human behavior, but that's besides the point.
Just my two cents. Not that you don't make a good point, I just thought it was interesting that you seemed dissatisfied with the poll choices when it is pretty common for polls to be similar. Take it with a grain of salt I guess. ^^
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I just don't like comparison between things that I find uneven, that's all.
As for the both option, it's a valid answer, isn't it? Whenever someone prefers both on different occasions each, it would screw over the poll results anyway, as that person would have to make a decision between these 2 options. I am just against's this or that polls in general not only this one in particular, as it's never black or white (as these polls most of the time suggest). A more appropriate ground for discussion would be, what you prefer and under what circumstances.
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Good point. I think OP should have labelled the poll as "If one had to stop existing, which one would you prefer to stay?" if that's what they were going for. :P
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Alcohol gives me bad hangovers and you need way to much to enjoy it. Weed just one hit and no fuss.
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Alcohol purely due to it being legal, and after a few years that became important to me
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Weed is legal where I live not that it stopped from smoking when it wasn't, It's only been legal for a couple years where I'm at.
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It just stopped being an option when I stopped being a student. Expect it will become legal here in the next few years
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Unfortunately neither. I'm allergic to both weed and alcohol. Really! Break out in hives and swell up. Sigh. Can't smoke either. So it's going outside and enjoying this beautiful world in all its glory. At least I'm not allergic to that.
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I went through an alcohol phase in highschool. Came home from school one day and found some long island ice tea liquor stuff...I took 6 shots in under an hour. Was fun for a little bit, but oh man I was laying in the char for like two hours while my mom and stepdad were laughing their asses off. Good times. I hardly drink anymore these days. Still have a bottle of Kalua sitting in my freezer for over a year.
But I've been smoking weed for about 7 years or so. I've been trying to cut back to save money and i'm getting older and it's just not as fun anymore. I enjoy relaxing after a stressful day at work but if I haven't smoked in three/four days I can't sleep or eat well, and I get anxious and start pacing. All in moderation...
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I feel it bro. I've been an anxious person that paces a lot all my life lol. Sober or not. Weed does calm me down though, I do wanna cut back on my smoking eventually.
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Alcohol.
I don't have anything against weed, but just the act of smoking grosses me out. Like, you're intentionally taking a deep breath of the terrible-smelling smoke from a burning plant, why would you do that?
Drinking, on the other hand, is perfectly normal, and beer tastes good. Well, not all beer, but I only drink the kinds that taste good.
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Different strokes for different folks. Weed smells amazing to me. Maybe it's because I enjoy the effects so I associate the smell idk.
Alcohol in general doesn't taste good to me unless it's a mixed drink.
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Neither. I don't drink alcohol and I don't smoke ( weed nor anything else).
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I smoke weed only when i'm drunk. Btw we have quite good potato rum :)
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Both are really bad.
While true in terms of use taken to excess, that's otherwise only an inaccuracy spread by fearmongering and the desire for social control. Anything is bad if you abuse it, which in turn can be an issue if you're genetically inclined toward being weak to such influences for a specific substance. But few things in this world are inherently bad, and as far as drugs go, a great many have valid medicinal purposes.
Alcohol in larger amounts can cause issues with your dopamine receptors- but in small amounts, can trigger dopamine release, making it a good quick regulator if you have dopamine balancing issues [and aren't prone to alcoholism]. Alcohol can act as a generalized anti-inflammatory, or either a generalized or localized anesthetic. It may not be the best we have available in the modern era, but the body can process it easily and generally without the chance at rare side effects common to other medications. It may not be the best option, but it's a reliable stopgap or emergency option. Alcohol can also treat poisoning due to ingestion of anti-freeze, and there's the obvious anti-septic properties.
Likewise, there's nothing "bad" about drinking it for relaxation, pleasure, or even as social lubricant, so long as such is done in moderation. In that sense, it's pretty equivalent to coffee- which generally lacks the same stigma (though it has at times similarly received such). Also, while health benefits of coffee tend to as often be indicated as being negative as being positive, low amounts of red wine or hops-heavy beer are generally determined to be health beneficial.
Weed's purported benefits range from pain relief, to abating seizures and muscle spasms, to regulating psychological and chemical disorders, to helping those who can't manage an appetite due to (typically pain or radiation-induced) nausea. Stoner culture may make weed seem as much an issue as over-indulgence in alcohol, but where alcohol is generally a 'don't have anything that works better for me on hand' option, Marijuana is currently highly considered for several medical uses.
Finally, addiction has overwhelmingly been shown to primarily be based within social pressure and genetics- few drugs are inherently addictive. This of course means that things like opiates generally don't go to the people who very much need them, due to the desire of others to control or make judgments based off faulty information.
Things have to be faced directly and honestly, rather than relying on personal or social prejudices (negative or positive)- else life amounts to nothing more than closing your eyes, sticking your fingers in your ears, and creating your own stories of what's going on around you. That may work, but it does severely limit what can be gotten out of life.
Edit:
For a clearer example of what I'm discussing, consider ADHD medications. They can have very negative effects on people, and where they don't, they can be abused as recreational stimulants. Despite both elements having notable visibility, people will swear to the benefits of these substances when they're used for valid medical circumstances.
The issue with any substance is generally not its inherent qualities, but its manner of use, and the circumstances of the person using it.
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Both!
I love drinking (in moderate quantities) some good Whisky, Gin, Cognac or lately Ron. I drink not only for the Alcohol but the taste. For Whisky or Ron add a good cigar (every now and then).
Weed i like it when i know i will have some free time to relax without much interruption as i tend to spend my time listening to music and meditating.
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What one do you prefer and why? I prefer weed more easily, I get drunk easily from alcohol and often lose my memory when I drink. I can still function on weed and go about my day.
I'm just bored and genuinely curious what Steamgifts prefers between the two. Happy easter btw.
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